Has officially finished. The defense only called two witnesses. And yesterday, rested their case. Former President Trump did not testify in his own defense despite telling the press multiple times he wanted to. You testify in your trial. Yeah, i would testify absolutely. Its a scam. Its a scam. Are you going to testify . Yes. Will you testify . No he wont stop. He the gag is not to testify. Do you plan to testify in court . I probably so. I would like to. I mean i think so. I mean, theres a story of his life, who shocked me can nobodys shocked. It is a guy who said of course i am going to testify, you knew he was not going to testify for a couple reasons. One, he is just a walking perjury machine. Seriously . You got a new Ice Cream Machine that you say makes ice cream. The mcreamy by ninja. And creamy, yeah, well, he is a Ninja Perjury Machine right . You stand in front of it for a couple seconds. I will never look at the creamy the same way. It creates instant perjury and so we all knew he it was lying. And he is a lie. He knew he was not going to testify. Again, i wonder who is stupid enough to believe him . Right. I wonder why his voter that keep going back to this guy because its not just its about everything. Okay, you know what, i got to plan for abortion that everybody is going to love. And i am going to talk about it. And he comes back on states rights. And then he goes, i got a plan for a health care its two weeks away. And, of course, those two weeks turn into two more weeks and he has no moplan for health care because he has no plan for anything positive for america and then yesterday, we will get to this in a second, what about contraceptions . Oh i got a plan for that. And you are going to love it. Its a smart plan. Its going to we are going g to take it back to the states. And then again, yeah, we take it back to the states which means Clarence Thomas was cl right, first coming for abortion, then they are going to be contraception and going to come for Marriage Equality and going on thats what he believes in his heart. And he gets back like for a guy that believe anything, thats one thing he believes. That states should be able to take away womens right to get contraceptives, have abortions or whatever. And he goes back to the campaign and goes that was w stupid, donald. You really dumb donald. You need to change your opinion donald. You you idiot thats what they are saying to him, and i am surprised they talk to him that way. But, they do, i guess. And so he changes his mind again. Oh, waited, no, wait, no, those are democrats its not democrats just like it was not democrats saying that he was going to testify when the whole world knew he was lying about testifying because he would purger himself on the stand. And he was afraid of what he would have to admit about this encounter with a porn star at a payoff through michael cohen. Okay. So, when asked thank you very much. Good morning, joe. Right now. Hi, joe. He is awake. Yes,. I was worried when i talked to him on the phone this morning that. He had his coffee. He was sleepy. Hes had his ice cream. I have. Yeah. Okay. You done good. You know what it is mika, and i know its funny i called Elizabeth Yesterday as well. And it ends up its not just me. Its everybody in the Times Washington Bureau when they are tired, they drink rudys drip coffee. Would you hedrink black. Outhats whats keeping us awake. Has anybody tried it. Rudy says it is really good. No, no one tried the coffee. I am interested. No. Sam. I am interested. Its the Hair Dye Sweat mixed in that gives it a special flavor. You got to gipour it out. And you put it in the ninja and its fluffy. Okay, so when asked why i am sticking to yummy. What do you any is in the mug . Okay, my gosh. This is not real. Is it . It is. Thats the problem. This is our world, 2024. Can you sell. Center. So when asked why he didnt take the stand, because the defense has rested and Donald Trumps criminal hush money trial, the former president refused to answer. Why did you decide against testifying in your case . Did you want to take the stand . So. Well. The trial is now on break for the memorial day holiday. And will resume next tuesday. May 28th, for Closing Arguments. The judge has confirmed there will be court next wednesday, making that the first possible day for jury deliberations. Lets bring in former u. S. Attorney and msnbc contributor chuck rosenberg. Chuck, just your thoughts on Donald Trumps inability or refusal to mpparticipate in thi probably his team got him to not testify because i dont think they would have liked that. And just what about this Big Gap Now And Then what happens scheduling wise for this trial where we might be waiting for a verdict . Whats the timeline. Yeah, let me start with the first thing first if i may. Good morning. Good morning. Its actually a smart decision by mr. Trump. So dont often use smart decision and mr. Trump in the same sentence. But it would be rare for a defendant in a criminal case to testify of the 50 or so criminal cases i prosecuted, i probably saw that happen two or three times. And it never, never went well for the defendant when he or she took the stand. And so, putting mr. Trumps noise aside, putting the brag doseo aside, it was a smart strategic decision for him not to testify. Prosecutors were ready. I think he would have been shredded, and so, i think resting without calling mr. Trump was a good legal decision. What happens now . Well, right now, both sides are working with the judge to fashion Jury Instructions that will be the judges legal road map for the jury when they ju begin their deliberations. The jurors are the judges of the fact but the judge supplies the law to the jury to help guide their deliberations. And then next hweek, both side will have the opportunity to argue to close to sum up the trial. And after that, mika, the case goes to the iajury and we await the verdict. Why do the Jury Instructions matter so much to both sides. Yeah, you know, its a great question, and theres not an obvious answer unless you are a lawyer and sat through this thing. By the way, sitting through this thing can be painful. I hated this part of trial. Once the defense rested, i felt like i was done, but i wasnt. So, heres an example. And just an example. But imagine the government wants to prove that mr. Trump caused the entry of false records. They want to prove that the ledgers and documents were false, and that mr. Trump caused them to be false. So, a discussion perhaps only a lawyer could love, what does it mean to cause something . So, you know, i am holding a mug of water in front of me right now. If you wanted me to cause me to drop this you could knock it out of my hand. Be directly causing me to drop this. You can get joe to knock it out of my hand and you would proxy to get me to drop it on scare me so you werent directly causing me but indirectly causing me to drop it. And so, the government wants a broad definition of cause. Not just that he made those entries directly on himself, but he caused someone else to do it. On the onother hand, the defens would want a narrow definition of cause. Because liability for the defense from their perspective ought to be narrow and liability from the prosecutions perspective awed to be broader. So ctgiving the judge to get th right definition of cause. You knock it out of your hand and got someone else to knock eat out of my hand helps the prosecution narrow definition of causality could help the defense. And chuck, i want to ask. Please, please, i want to remind everybody, please, ve nobody knock that out of chucks hand. No. They are actually is rudy coffee inside of it. And it burns through table tops, and your lower intestines like sulfuric acid. So lets keep that right there. And there it is. Made with some special ingredients that, well, lets just say banned in 47 states. Chuck, i want to talk about this time that you said you ou hated. As an attorney, you are sitting and waiting. And i would watch older lawyers. I d was not my specialty going the courtroom. Might have narrowly defined specialty from where i worked, and that was windows. They thought i cleaned windows very well and thats what i did most of the day. I would watch the seasoned attorneys and they would sit and wait for the jury and they hated it. And they hated it because you never knew what was going to happen. Right . Thats right. They would say 90 of the time its right. But you know what, you lose some, you should never win and win some you should never lose. But thats when i hear people on tv trying to predict how a jury is going to come back. Despite what you know, where they are whether they are new york or northwest florida. Nobody knows. Because they really do. They take the job seriously. And that once they get behind the doors, it just takes on its own life, doesnt it . Absolutely. I mean i could say with confidence that i felt my case went in well. I introduced the evidence i wanted to introduce. I obtain the answers from our witnesses that i wanted to obtain. But it would be crazy, foolish, for me to tell you i knew what a jury was going to do. And he think the reason i hateed that part so much is maybe as prosecutors were a bit of control freaks. And this is the thing we absolutely cannot control. Once the case is submitted to the jury, its theirs and theirs alone. And all you can do is sit and wait. I will never tell you i know what a jury is going to do. I will tell you i think the governments case went in well, well enough to sustain a conviction. Whether or not that happens, i have absolutely no idea. Can i ask a question. Okay. Go for it. So, what is the ive heard repeatedly how good the governments case is. What would you guess would be the if trump is acquitted, why would the jury do that . What evidence would they hang that acquittal on . Yeah, and elizabeth, remember, in order to acquit, they also have to be unanimous. An acquittal or a conviction requires a 120 verdict. And anything in between would be a mistrial hung jury. But to answer your question, in my experience when a jury aquits, right, and so thats a unanimous verdict, its typically, not always, but typically because they have some question about whether the government met its burden of proof. And thats significant burden. Its proof beyond a reasonable doubt. I will add this, think its really important can this jury acquit . Absolutely. Will this jury acquit . I llhave no idea. But, an acquittal is never a vote by a jury that someone is innocent. They are not asked that question. It is guilty or not guilty. And so often when theres an acquittal, the press modely touts it as a finding of innocence. Thats not the finding. But it typically, elizabeth, be predicated op a belief by unanimous jury that the government failed to meet its burden of proof. And we will continue this conversation after a quick break. Dont go anywhere. Sation afterk break. Dont go anywhere. The virus that causes shingles is sleeping. In 99 of people over 50. Its lying dormant, waiting. And could reactivate. Shingles strikes as a painful, blistering rash that can last for weeks. And it could wake at any time. Think youre not at risk for shingles . Its time to wake up. Because shingles could wake up in you. 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This soil will blow you away. Its the Martha Stewart of soil. Though is not testifying donald trump is talking a lot. Yesterday, he unleashed a new line of attack of judge merchan. He accused the judge of hating him and having bias against him. Because of where the judge comes from. The judge hates donald trump. Just take a look. Take a look at him. Take a look at where he comes from. He cant stand donald trump. Hes doing everything in his power. Sam, what is he talking about . I mean, its typical trump. This is the same exversion of the line he did back in the 2016 campaigner with said the judge against him in the Trump University case was biased because he was from mexico. He was not as explicit. That was pretty clear. Where he comes from could be and deliberately could be phrased how the viewer wants but we know what the implication was. And you know, all of this is sort of surreal. That statement in its own right would have been a shock to the system six, seven years ago. And it was. I remember how we felt when it first happened. Yeah. But its become sort of normalized because we have been so inundated with trump. And i think on the macro scale, we are had a 15minute conversation about a potential the presumptive gop nominee may have a guilty verdict in Hush Money Payment for a porn star. And i think sometimes we dont really step back and say to ourselves that what we are living through is a very tense tumultuous and frankly a surreal life. And i think the thing thats almost more interesting than all of that is the degree to which, if you talk to democrats they will admit this. The degree to which it is not breaking through. Right. The polls dont move. Trumps base doesnt move. We have lawmakers who are willingly going to the court. Theres an acceptance happening. Exactly. Theres an acceptance to it and it is become baked into our political psyche at this point. Joe. Well, i mean, elizabeth, it says it is far more than just concerning nerveracking. This is open blatant racism that has been sort of main streamed into american political life. This did shock people in 2016. When he was talking about the judge from mexico. But heres a guy now that says take a look at him. Look at him. See where hes from. And i it will you this is what separates donald trump for say i will speak for myself from me or from most americans. I look at him and go, Madison Avenue . Upper east side. Thats what i see when i see him. And i am dead serious. Donald trump speaks in code because he wants people to see the judge as another. Everybody is another unless their immigrant parents were from scotland and germany. And so, you have people, and i will go back to it what did don meachum call It Clubhouse Set thats totally fine with. The grill. The grill the yeah the mans club grill at Country Clubs are perfectly fine voting for a guy who talks about vermin a nazi term, who also uses sort of the fascist slogan of go back to where you came from for sitting members of congress that dont happen to be white. And then yesterday, just take a look at him. Just seriously . Like what is this 1933 . I it is it still needs to be shocking to us today. But, you know, and heres the trump said we need more people coming from norway and the Scandinavian Companies thats out there as well. It has been going on since 2015 and 2016 and population has become just used to it. It is can you manage if another politician had said Something Like this. We would be talking about it for days, but trump is we are used to it,. And he is bringing up a whole new set of generation trying to think of the right word category of politicians who speak this way and you see them in congress, and, again, the reaction theres so much of it, joe, that its hard to keep track and again without going into the origins of fascism and cults, thats exactly how it starts when theres chaos, theres a fire hose of this type of information, and it is too much to keep up with. And overall, communities and different whether its the media or voters or political organizations become desensitized. Yeah, you know, and the voters i wont say they become desensitized because thats giving them far too much leniency. The fact is. Whats the word . Well, i mean, they are voting for a racist. They are it is an active choice to vote for someone who said in december of and i know this because i was a lifelong republican who on this show early December Of 2015 when he was talking about Muslim Registry saying i would never vote for a manlike that in my life. Regardless of if it were my father or a woman or if it was my mom, i would never, right. Thats an active choice. I am going to vote for him even though he supports muslim recommendation stris. I am going to vote for him even though he is using the old fascist line go back to where you came from. I am going to vote for him the Men Grill Enablers are saying when he says just take a look at him. Look at where he is from. This is not a passive choice. This is not an oh i am so numb they cant even hear what he is saying. No, this is him hearing he is a racist, hearing that he a racist, he is a racist terms and they would have been used by everybody in both parties. I keep going back to the iowa congressman who got kicked out of the caucus for saying far less in 2015. By other republicans. By the republicans. This is no trump derangement syndrome. Because republicans and Democrats Predonald Trump in 2016 would have considered any of these statements disqualifying. Now it is an active, active decision by members of the republican party, by members of the United States senate, by members of the United States house by republicans Men Grill Enabler republicans by anybody thats voting for him to vote for someone who is for Muslim Registry and