Transcripts For MSNBCW Morning 20240703

Two phrases that are guaranteed to lock up the youth vote. Donald trump said at the debate, he wants both of them to stand instead of sit. Thats the status of our presidency. Standing is a feat of strength. I think we could learn a lot more watching them both try to get out of a bean bag chair. Thatd be a good one. As the president ial candidates prepare to debate next month, Donald Trumps Hush Money Trial, the criminal trial, resumes today in New York City. Well have expert legal analysis on the case so far and a preview of what could be the final week in court. Plus, well have some of the highlights from President Bidens Commencement Speech at Morehouse College, where he attempted to thread the needle on several issues connected to his reelection campaign. Also ahead, well recap a wild weekend at the Pga Championship with new details about the arrest of Scottie Scheffler. That was incredible. Well show you the dramatic final putt to win the major tournament. Good morning. Welcome to morning joe. Its monday, may 20th. With us, we have the host of Way Too Early, White House Bureau chief at politico, jonathan lemire. Former president of the council of foreign relations, Richard Haass. Columnist for the Washington Post, David Ignatius is with us. Former supreme alied commander of nato, Four Star Admiral james stavridis. Chief International Analyst for nbc news. We have this incredible panel because there is major Breaking News from overnight. Iranian state media is reporting that the nations president , ras rasy raisy, and the Foreign Minister died in a Helicopter Crash. Search teams arrived at what was originally called a hard landing and found in sign of life. According to a news outlet for the iranian government, seven other officials were on board at the time of the accident. The Associated Press sites iranian tv has given no cause for the collision, although weather could be involved. It was nearing azerbaijan when the Helicopter Crashed. Weather didnt allow search crews to work for hours. Raisy had been president since 2021. David, what is your thoughts . At a time of instability across the middle east, this adds one more element. It is unlikely to mean any sharp change in policy. The true leader is the Supreme Court who remains in charge, but he is 85. Raisy, the president , was widely seen as the most likely successor to him. This Creator A Succession Quandary for iran. In the immediate future, Muhammad Mukhbar will be the interim president. Elections will be 50 days from now. In theory, well have a new president , not likely to be different in terms of policy. This is a body that moves in step. As for the future, this is an interesting development. The Supreme Leaders son could be a candidate. One other interesting phenomenon here, even as iran has been deepening its confrontation with israel, firing Ballistic Missiles, over 200 drones in april, none of which were successful, it has been trying to open more of a dialogue with the United States. Last week, an Iranian Foreign Ministry Official met with our top middle east person in iran to talk about issues of mutual concern. At the time of the missile strike, the iranians made an effort to contact the u. S. Through the swiss embassy, exchanged messages, understand exactly who would do what. I think were heading into a period where, as was said, there will be no disruption in policy. Thinkcertainty in iran, in israel, almost an open contest for leadership of israel, and an american election. You couldnt have more of an unstable factor over the middle east at this dangerous time. Joe. Certainly, admiral, weve heard about the great dangers that weve been facing in the region, obviously since october 7th and certainly with iran. It is fascinating hearing what david said regarding the contacts with the swiss embassy. I heard the same thing after the killing of soleimani, and im sure you did, too. The iranians fired missiles at u. S. Targets and immediately told people in the region, please get back to the United States thats it. We had to show some force for domestic consumption. Of course, you had the United States warning iran backchannel about an imminent Terror Attack a few months ago. Things are not always as cut and dry as they appear. Id love for you to go through your experience in the region, iran directly or indirectly, and give us your read on where we go from here. The only thing i know for sure is the Vice President of the United States will not be going to tehran to attend this particular funeral. Theres certainly no love lost between our two countries. But i think, joe, you and david are right to highlight two aspects that jump out to me. Number one, the presidency of iran, which will have to be fill ed, is not the prize here. The current incumbent has cancer, mid 80s. Thatll come sooner rather than later. Id put my money on his son more than anybody else. But nobody knows the answer to that question, and that is going to drive a lot of internal maneuver and politics. Oh, by the way, if we think here in the United States were prone to conspiracy theory, certainly, iran, its populous, is prone to it, starved of actual information. Look for Conspiracy Theories that will pop up about who might have manufactured this. Was israel involved . Was the cia involved in this . Almost certainly no. Bad weather, probably bad maintenance, probably bad airmanship is what caused this. But the second big thing here, and, again, you eluded to it a moment ago, is that iran does not want this to explode into a wider regional war. This is the last time theyd want while in the midst of their version of Game Of Thrones here. Look for the iranians to send signals to the United States, potentially to other actors in the region. Theyre close in the arab world with qatar, relatively so. Look for them to signal, look, let us alone right now. We have to sort this out. Now is not the time for anyone to take advantage. Richard, following up on that, obviously, this president died at a time when hed been facing domestic unrest, also economically, iran has been struggling. We can look back over the past 10, 15 years and see that iran is divided. You sort of Have Red State iran, blue state iran, in that the urban center is far different than rural iran. This is a country divided, trying to figure out its way forward. It would seem to me the last thing theyd want to do is begin a regional war. Look, they have a lot on their plate, i agree. Ill say a few things. I think both the admiral and david got it exactly right. One is raisis legacy not real impressive, joe. It gets to what you were saying. What was it about . Repression. He leaves a more divided society and real economic mismanagement. The currency is much weaker and so forth. That is essentially what hes done. I think the fact he is out of the running because he is dead for the Supreme Leader is interesting because if it goes to his son, to khameneis son, it raises questions of hereditary processes here. The question is, does that detract from the legitimacy of the Supreme Leader . The death of the president has almost no impact in the short run because the president doesnt have a lot of authority over the things wed talk about on this show, National Security and so forth. Its more of a domestic role. The real question is what implications does it have for the longterm legitimacy of the regime . It gets to the splits within the society. My own guess, though, is this regime probably has, unfortunately, more Staying Power Continuity than any of us would like to see. Yeah. No doubt about that. David ignatius, though, following up, i think fascinating insight by richard when he is talking about how if being the Supreme Leader of iran is more hereditary, that further weakens, at least in the eyes of the region, the standing of religious leadership in iran, compared to iraq, who still really is seen as the supreme shiite leader and this sort of hereditary pass down would, i think, possibly even weaken irans ultimate influence in iraq. To me, raisi, the president now dead, was the symbol of a regime that, in many ways, is running out of gas. He was not a distinguished cleric. He wasnt somebody whose religious views were taken seriously. He was the enforcer. He was a judge. He was the person who when Ayatollah Khamenei wanted to clean up in the 80s, was a sign of being basically the Hanging Judge, said to have sent to the execution more than 1,000 people. He was the reliable servant of the revolution, but he didnt enhance or expand that revolution. During his time as president , we saw young iranians just in explosion of celebrating personal freedom, women taking off their head scarves, throwing them away, risking, at least for some weeks and months, being arrested. For a long time, the regime couldnt get that back under control. As a western diplomat said to me once, think of iran as being on a oneway street. That street is toward the end of the regime. How fast itll go down that street, hard to tell. It could be many, many years. Theyre still very powerful, but there is no sign of this regime rehabilitating itself in the eyes of its people. Raisi was not a charismatic person, and there is little likelihood the successors who come into place now will be any more so. White house, of course, carefully watching developments unfold here. It was about a 12hour or so search before these rescue crews found the helicopter, downed helicopter. No signs of life. Those i spoke to in the last 24 hours or so really concerned that iran would try to point the fingers elsewhere for this crash, namely at israel. Suggesting theyd rather push this conspiracy, that someone else did this, rather than accept fault that they couldnt protect their own president. That it was simply a crash. To this point, that has not happened in any real way. Doesnt mean, of course, that could not change in the days ahead. Particularly in an unstable region. Also, u. S. Officials tell me theyre watching what, if any, response there might be from irans proxy groups, hezbollah and the like, if they try to use this as an impetus to spark further violence at a time of war in gaza, at a time when the world is watching to see when the push into rafah might begin. At this point, relatively calm, but the helicopter was only recovered in the last few hours. U. S. Officials trying to speak to those in the region to get a sense of the stability there. Lets bring in chief Foreign Correspondent Richard Engel and nbc news chief International Correspondent keir simmons. He is in the gulf region this morning. Richard, well start with you. Your analysis and are you hearing any reaction from the region . So weve already heard quite a bit of reaction from hezbollah, from other groups. They are not at this stage blaming israel, blaming the United States. Theyre expressing their condolences. And going back to the issue you were just talking about, the future of iran, what this means for the Supreme Leader. Theyre praising the Supreme Leader. Theyre praising the theocracy. Theyre saying our loyalty, yes, we express our condolences for the loss of this man, but our loyalty remains to the system of clerical rule in iran. I think thats what this death really highlights. Iran has a Succession Crisis right now. Its not that he was openly tapped to be the next Supreme Leader, but thats the way things were heading. Two names ever mentioned. Raisi, the president as the potential next Supreme Leader. The Supreme Leader himself is 85 years old right now. Raisi, who just died, only 63. If he had come to power, he would likely have been in power for two decades or so. His death is a profound moment. The other name that was ever mentioned is mojtaba, the son of the Supreme Leader. The fact that raisi died in a Helicopter Crash, in fog, at this stage, no evidence or really any accusations that there was other that foul play was a factor more than foul weather. But still, if the Supreme Leader now tries to appoint his son, or the people around him try to appoint his son after the previous president and the person who was going to get that job died in a Helicopter Crash, i think it would look suspicious. I think there is a Succession Crisis, and it think it has potentially an opportunity for the Security Establishment there, the revolutionary guard, to assert more and more control. Potentially this is a moment like Boris Yeltsin and putin. Yeltsin, no longer able to run the country, and you have someone from the Security Establishment, Intelligent Service rises up, takes over, and transforms the state. Well see if we head in that direction. Well be watching. Nbcs Richard Engel, thank you very much. David . I want to go, if we could, to keir simmons, who is in the gulf. Keir, i would ask you to help us understand what impact this death of an iranian president will have on regimes in the region immediately. How will they perceive it . What difference will it make for them as they think about an iran that, for most of them, is their biggest threat . Yeah, i mean, i think the way you guys have framed it this morning effectively, you know, add to the busying forces in the region right now, uncertainty in iran. Now, the first Vice President who is now taking over as president , he went to russia in october and did a deal, which then supplied russia with more weapons, more iranian weapons. In fact, President Putin today talking about what a great leader president raisi was. Xi of china talking about him as a friend. The partners of iran are out already sending their condolences. Other countries on the fence also sending concondolences. Many countries from the gulf of and the middle east sending messages, because you do in circumstances like this. I think were into the law of Unintended Consequences as far as what it means for irans Foreign Policy. Domestically, lets not forget, president raisi is the leader who presided over the crushing of protest in 2022, womens rights protests after the death of amini. Lets not forget, he was leading iran just last month, of course, when iran fired those missiles towards israel. Will there be changes in terms of the domestic or the Foreign Policy . Perhaps not. Then we just dont know. Its kind of, you know it really paints a picture of how quickly this region changes. This is all happening just as Jake Sullivan has just left saudi arabia and then israel, trying as best he can to push a program of stability, if you want to call it that, a proposal of stability, which we know involves what has been described as a mega deal with saudi arabia. A security deal, a Civil Nuclear deal, a trade deal, and, at the same time, normalization with israel and a twostate solution for the palestinians. Incredibly difficult to achieve. Gets harder and harder it seems as the politics of the region unfolds. Of course, because of the war in gaza. Very, very difficult because of the congressional politics there in the u. S. And the fact that an election is coming. Take the question of a Civil Nuclear deal with saudi arabia, thatd have to be passed through the house and the senate. Then we havent even mentioned the feud between benny gantz and netanyahu, spilling into the open 24 hours or so before all this happened. Now, were talking about iran. Thats why it is so difficult in this region, particularly right now. Nbcs keir simmons, thank you so much. Greatly appreciate it, as always. Admiral, keir actually set up what i was going to ask you. First of all, lets look at the three things that happened yesterday. Irans president and Foreign Minister killed in a Helicopter Crash. Jake sullivan talking to the saudis about a wideranging security deal. And benny nantz telling benjamin netanyahu, you have no man. If you dont come up with a plan in the next three weeks, im taking this Coalition Government down. Which, of course, would force netanyahu to go even further to the right. All three of those things happened yesterday. So i ask you, how does this play into the future of israel and future operations in gaza . Lets start with benny gantz. That, in many ways, is the most quickly moving kind of event here. Thats because general benny gantz, who i know very well from his days of running the idf when i was running u. S. European command, and we worked together on many, many security deals. He is quite serious. He is a very steady pair of hands. In the context of israeli politics, he is a centrist. He will come through with what he has said to benjamin netanyahu. Meaning, netanyahu is going to, my view, have to create some kind of poststrife plan. Benny doesnt quite have all of the votes to absolutely force a collapse of the government, but hes pretty close and a centrist figure. That one politically, i think, is top of the watch list, joe. What happens with that in israel . Second and finally, you know the admiral will say this, ive been watching the sea. As i watch what was behind keir simmons a moment ago, two maritime thoughts occurred to me. One good, one bad. The bad one is this is going to mean a continuation of the attacks in the red sea. Somehow, the houthis will amp this up and continue that. Secondly, a good thing maybe to close on this, the pier is open. The one the United States built. Maritime miracle. 150 truckloads a day. It is a real push by the United States on the humanitarian side. So many moving parts here. Im watching benny gantz for the next chapter in the ongoing israeli internal domestic political thee per. Theater. Retired admiral james stavridis, thank you for your insights, as always. Well have much more on the Breaking News with Richard Haass and David Ignatius. Also, coming up on morning joe, Michael Cohen will take the stand for his third day of testify this morning in Donald Trumps criminal Hush Money Trial. Well have a preview of what to expect as the proceedings begin to wrap up. Youre watching march. Were back in 90 seconds. Tech need to get your windshield fixed . Safelite makes it easy. You can schedule in just a few clicks. And well come to you with a replacement you can trust. Vo schedule Free Mobile Service now at safelite. Com. Safelite repair, safelite replace. Why choose a sleep number smart bed . Can it keep me warm when im cold . At safelite. Com. Wait, no, im always hot. Sleep number does that. Can i make my side softer . I like my side firmer. Sleep number does that. Can it help us sleep better and better . Please . Sleep number does that. 94 percent of smart sleepers report better sleep. Now, save 50 on the sleep Number Limited Edition smart bed. Plus, free Home Delivery when you add any base. Shop now at sleepnumber. Com what a Beautiful Shot of New York City. Nice. Surrounding area. 6 24. Just absolutely gorgeous may morning in new york. Alex obviously pushing the chopper 4 button instead of the 7second delay button. This time working for the cause in a positive way. You know, richard, for the news out of the middle east, we started by talking about, really, it is an extraordinary day of sports. Pablo going to be coming up the next 15, 20 minutes. I wanted to give you a chance to do what a lot of New York Knicks fans have been doing over the past 12 hours or so. Just tipping their had to an extraordinary effort by an extraordinary team. Man, speaking of extraordinary, what happened out west with the timberwolves, and also the pga. Were not talking about the red sox for the first time in 30 years putting two hits together backtoback and winning a game. It was an extraordinary day. Look, the knicks, no shame, joe. They ran out of gas, literally broken bodies and broken hand for jalen brunson. They couldnt keep up. Indiana moved to a much more physical game. The knicks couldnt defend against them. Indiana made twothirds of their shots yesterday, better than twothirds. Look, knicks had a great run. They have a great core if they can keep them together. As someone once said in baseball, theres always next year. I dont think any new yorker feels anything but its been a great season, and they went as far as they could have gone. What can you say about indiana coming in, playing at, i think, one of the most anticipated Sporting Events in new york in years, and just absolutely shooting the lights out, doing extraordinary job. Jonathan lemire, not only that, but then what happened in denver later in the evening. Yeah, the pacers rose to the moment, no doubt here. I agree with richard. Knicks fans will look back upon this team very fondly. They ran out of gas. Brunson getting hurt, in some ways, a sadly fitting end to a team that completely broke down at the end. They couldnt play defense yesterday. Indiana couldnt miss. Last night, i know well talk more in a little bit, stunning that denver had a 15point halftime lead, defending champions. Jokic and murray doing whatever they wanted. It looked like it was going to be a denver rout and maybe on their way to backtoback titles. Instead, minnesota comes back with the biggest Halftime Game Seven comeback ever and played just unbelievable lockdown defense. Unbelievable. They turned up the offense and just smothered the nuggets. Now, an unlikely final four of minnesota, dallas, indiana, and, yes, the boston celtics. Unfortunately, we did just have to see a clip of Alex Rodriguez Cheering Excitedly, as he is attempting to be part of the timberwolves ownership group. We didnt have enough time for sports. Well get back to it with pablo coming up. We must get onto the news. The trump criminal Hush Money Trial will resume this morning for what could be the final day of testimony. Michael cohen is set to return to the stand for a third day of crossexamination. Former President Trumps legal team has said this will be its final day questioning him. The prosecution has already confirmed cohen is its final witness and will likely rest its case after his testimony is complete. The defense focused much of thursdays crossexamination on a key 2016 call, where cohen previously said he spoke directly to the former president about his Hush Money Payments to Stormy Daniels. Trump lawyer todd blanche pressed cohen on that conversation, bringing up a Text Exchange he had with trumps bodyguard right before the call that seemed to suggest the topic was about a prank caller, not Stormy Daniels. Cohen insisted he spoke about both things despite the calls short length. The other big question is if donald trump takes the stand. Last week, lawyers for the former president said they were unsure if trump would testify, even though he has said publicly he would like to. Trumps legal team also said they may not call any other witnesses. Judge merchan told both sides to be ready for Closing Arguments as early as tomorrow if the prosecution and the defense rest. Lets go to the courthouse and spring in former litigator and msnbc Legal Correspondent lisa rubin. Lisa, do you expect things to wrap up or a surprise trump witness on the stand . Mika, im not sure i expect donald trump to testify, but it is also possible we could get other witnesses, including witnesses that we havent necessarily foreseen. Thats because if the defense feels it necessary to rebut Michael Cohen, they might put some other people on the stand that they think can demonstrate that his account of the narrative here is not true. We have other Media Outlets reporting last week what one of those witnesses could be, bob costello, best known as Rudy Giulianis close friend and former lawyer. Hes also represented steve bannon. In this context, What Costello has to offer is he tried to represent Michael Cohen, who strung him along for a series of months. In their exchanges, cohen says costello dangled a pardon and offered to be a back channel to the Trump White House before Michael Cohen decided, you know what . Im not going in this direction. Costello has publicly said, including in congressional testimony as recently as last week, that everything Michael Cohen has to say is a lie. In fact, he was a witness for the defense before the grand jury. Thats a unique feature of new york law, where the defense can call its own witnesses to the grand jury. Robert costello was their only witness last year before the indictment came down. One thing im looking for today is not so much whether trump is going to take the stand, which i think is increasingly unlikely, but whether we see bob costello do the same. As you will always say, lisa, you never know how a jury is going to land on something, but since weve had the weekend, so far, how has the defense been able to damage or undermine Michael Cohens testimony in a real and substantial way . Mika, a lot of the things they have used to try to undermine Michael Cohens credibility are sort of sophisticated, complex stories, and its not clear that the jury completely understands them. Ill give you one example. Michael cohen pled guilty in 2018, yes, to Campaign Finance charges, but also to tax evasion that had nothing to do with donald trump. Since then, he has told a variety of different stories about why he pled guilty to tax evasion. Testifying last fall, for example, at trumps civil fraud trial that he lied when he said under oath that he was guilty of tax evasion. On the stand in this case, on the other hand, he took a different track. He said he wasnt quibbling with the underlying facts but rather the process by which that plea was extracted from him. Todd blanche spent a lot of time with respect to the three differing stories, but it is not clear it was as intelligible to a Jury Hearing It for the first time as it was, for example, to you or me, people who have followed this drama very closely. But theyve also spent some time, as you noted in your opening, with respect to the texts, right . Particularly, this call that Michael Cohen says he had with Keith Schiller, using Keith Schiller to pass through the phone to donald trump. He said that october 24th phone call was an opportunity for him to get the boss approval on the Stormy Daniels payment. It is of no moment whether that was the phone call or not because the records that are already in the case show that two days later, Michael Cohen and donald trump spoke themselves directly. It is not clear whether this is landing or not. Lets see how todd blanche uses the remainder of his time today. All right. Msnbc Legal Correspondent lisa rubin at the courthouse. Thank you so much. Well be watching. Coming up on morning joe, as we said, espns pablo torre will join us to go over the big weekend in sports. Including the pair of game sevens in the nba playoffs and yesterdays thrilling finish at the Pga Championship. Plus, Roger Bennett will be here to talk about manchester citys Historic Premier League title. Morning joe is coming right back. My moderate to Severe Plaque Psoriasis held me back. Now with skyrizi, im all in with clearer skin. Things are getting clearer. i feel free. To bear my skin, yeah thats all me. Nothing is everything with skyrizi, 3 out of 4 people achieved 90 clearer skin at 4 months. And most people were clearer even at 5 years. Skyrizi is just 4 doses a year, after 2 starter doses. Serious allergic reactions. And an increased risk of infections. Or a lower ability to fight them may occur. Tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms,. Had a vaccine, or plan to. Nothing and me go handinhand, nothing on my skin, thats my new plan. 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And a new fiber blend with a prebiotic. whoa, whats that, grandpa . And a new fiber blend with a prebiotic. Look at us knuckleheads. And theyre all coming . Those who are still with us, yes. You look good. You as well. One, two three. Grandpa whats this, ellie . Your wings. Light em up gentlemen, its a beautiful. Day to fly. Wooooooo whoa on your wing, grandpa this is the moment you dream of as a kid. Youve practiced it as a Kid Thousands and thousands of times, telling yourself it was for this very occasion. To win it all. Center victory at valhalla. That was Xander Schauffele winning his first major title with that birdie putt on the final hole of the Pga Championship in louisville yesterday. Likely louisvilles last major tournament after what happened on friday. But his victory was perhaps overshadowed by the events that did break during our show on friday, when the topranked player in the world, Scottie Scheffler, was arrested after allegedly dragging a Police Officer with his car, trying to get to work. Scheffler was released in time to tee off a few hours later, now faces charges, including Felony Assault of a Police Officer over what he calls a, quote, misunderstanding. Lets bring in the host of Pablo Torre Finds Out question meadowlarks pablo torre. First, a couple things about the friday morning arrest. Unbelievably, the body cam, yeah, no body cam turned on. Nope. Officer had mika kept saying, lets wait until we see the footage from the cops body cam. Miraculously not on. Secondly, they write in the Police Report, this felony was charged in part because, quote, the Police Officers trousers were damaged beyond repair. Beyond repair. I hope thats right. I hope they enjoyed it. I hope they enjoyed it because i suspect pga will not be going back to louisville for quite some time. But lets talk about the tournament itself. Feel free to talk about friday if you wish. Oh, yeah, theres a lot. Quite an ending. Lets start with the beginning on friday, first, before we get to the ending. I want to make clear, this is not where i envisioned talking about police misconduct. The pga, joe. Its not to think im going to shed the most tears over in the broad macro perfective. Right. This was absurd. Though the body cam was off, unsurprisingly in retrospect, there was a van full of espn reporters right behind that talked to Sports Illustrated, talked to everybody else in the world, and said, we didnt see it. We didnt see the alleged dragging of the Police Officer. It seemed like a guy who did not know and this is not a sin because i dont think any of us picked Scottie Scheffler to be one of the faces youd recognize in golf, as good as he is, but the guy didnt recognize him going to work. So the reports are now that, on tuesday, tomorrow, the charges will be dropped. That is appropriate. This was ridiculous. I do think it means that louisville will not host the pga any time soon. It also overshadowed what happened, of course, at the end, which you foreshadowed for us. What a tremendous win for Xander Schauffele. For those who dont know Xander Schauffele either, because these are not tiger and rory. These are names i think america may still be getting used to. Xander schauffele was a guy who had not won a major. When you dont win a major, the question goes from when will you win a major to can you win a major . What he did against Bryson Dechambeau in this final, winning on a walkoff birdie, basically, is a dramatic announcement of, by the way, please take me seriously. Recognize me when i pull up to the driveway next time at the next major i play at. Yeah, of course, it didnt help the masters winner. Yeah, perhaps this will help xander. You know, richard, Richard Haass, im looking at your contract. Even though we have pablo here, i am required to ask you, since youre the selfappointed Roger Bennett for pga golf, what was your take on yesterday . Dramatic finish. Bryson dechambeau played the best golf of his career. Almost won it. Xander schauffele, i think, got rid of the demons that he couldnt, you know, end strong in a tournament. Scheffler, take out the one round, he had his letdown not on friday, day of the arrest, but saturday, his first over par round since i dont know when. His other three rounds were fantastic. Still had a top ten finish. One thing about scheffler i have to say, joe, ive never heard this before. So hes in jail, waiting. What does he do . On friday morning, he starts doing all of his exercises. He does his stretching, his preround routine on the floor of the prison cell. That is as far as preshot routines, i havent heard of a preround routine in prison. Had a great round after that. Not a bad tournament. Lets turn from golf to basketball. You know, a couple of confessions here. Yes, waiting for them. Pablo, number one, i think ive told you before, ive been disconnected from the nba for quite a few years. My son keeps telling me, like, i totally missed the golden state golden era, despite the fact my oldest son just frantic to get me to see the magic that kerr was doing out there. Just been focused on college basketball. Man, this year, it pulled me in. Second confession, im not really a live event guy until its baseball. Usually you can see more on tv. I dont need to tell anybody i was there. I will tell you, all my friends that were going to the knicks games said nothing like it. The fact that a team from indiana came into Madison Square garden. Thats it. The biggest event. The biggest event in new york Sports History in such a long time. Did what they did, nothing short of incredible. Yeah, decades, joe. Decades. Since 73, knickfans have been waiting for this. I talk all the time about the knicks, and we should because of the reasons you eluded to. But the Indiana Pacers shot better in an nba playoff game than any team ever has, okay . 67 . If you slept through the game somehow, you missed the team basically do whatever they wanted in a building that is famed for its hostility, famed for its own mystique and aura, to paraphrase curt schilling. Increaingly odd person to paraphrase, msg. When you watch this team, joe, again, not a bunch of guys youd know immediately, but Tyrese Halliburton is a new villain that New York City has. He wasnt quite reggie miller, but he was the sort of guy to point at some fans, some poor soul courtside, and use him as the inspiration to lead a team that, again, made pretty much every shot they took. John, its just a remarkable thing to watch this pacers team now suddenly be in the Eastern Conference finals. After the game, halliburton put on a hoodie with reggie millers picture, famously doing the choke sign. He was channelling the indiana villain there. Yes, pacers celtics. I think itll be a pretty good series coming up next. Lets get you in on, in some ways, the more surprising thing, indiana coming into msg and routing. The knicks ran out of gas. Last night, nuggets, defending champions. Nikola jokic, threetime mvp. 15point lead at halftime. Thats when i turned it off. Wow, then minnesota comes back, less from Anthony Edwards this time around. It was karlanthony towns. Some offense, yes, but it was about smothering defense. Yeah, this is the best defense in the nba by far, the Minnesota Timberwolves. Ive come onto this program and tell you guys. Ive been laughed at, not naming names, telling me to give up, joe scarborough, the timberwolves bandwagon. Arod. Fascinating, who owns the team. There is a billionaire battle behind the scenes. Out in front on stage was the best defense in the nba and the most Exciting Team in the nba. I believe, with all due respect to jonathan lemires boston celtics, the best team in the nba. To do this against the nuggets, defending champions at home in game seven, making the largest comeback, as john eluded to, in nba history, it was a remarkable thing. They shut down the mvp, the threetime mvp. Timberwolves told everybody, you may vaguely recall us as the worst team in nba history. Now, theyre going to the Western Conference finals on a, i think this is true, a preemptive parade route, driven by Anthony Edwards, who will host snl one day. Ill call that, too. He is charismatic. He makes unlikely people around him, rudy gobert, karlanthony towns. Since you coughed my name in vain, ill tell you, pablo, when i pick a team, 16, like the detroit lions, i stay with them. When someone challenges me, i dont fold like a rusty lawn chair. You said, i thought, i guess i was wrong. Courage of your convictions, man. Courage of your convictions. Lesson learned at this table. Yeah, lesson learned. But you did talk about the timberwolves early on. Ive got to say, i was shocked. I thought denver would figure out a way to do it. Man, some great basketball ahead of us. Pablo, thank you so much. Cant wait to see ya again. Hopefully in the next couple days. Yes. Do you have something to hold up there . You looked like you were going to hold up the new york post. Being called out by joe scarborough, not loving the knicks enough. Courage of your convictions. Youre our favorite. Thank you, pablo. Come back soon. Turning to premier League Soccer and an unprecedented fourth consecutive title for manchester city. Lets see how many times Roger Bennett can say petro dollars in a sentence. Lets bring in Sports Sock R analyst, founder of Men In Blazers media network, Roger Bennett. Of course, i was not seeing man city hoist the trophy. What i was watching instead was anfields farewell to jurgen klopp. Very, very moving. As always, he left as he came, with extraordinary grace, leaving chance for his successor. Like a viking ling the stadi of flame. To valhalla, well get to that. The culmination of 282 days spent watching 380 games, dreaming, marveling, selfloathing a little bit, and it all came down to a twohorse race. L. A. Rams owner, stan kroenke, and his perpetually as spiring but never quite there arsenal. Abu dahbi owned team looking for a win. This was the pick of the goals. Tommy aso, hoping ricky bobbys creed, if you aint first, youre last, would not hold out to be. We had to go to manchester and defending champions manchester city. They needed just 75 seconds, 75 seconds of deep suspense before phil foden unleashed a bolt that was like a death star. A super laser powered by hyper matter, straight into the corner. It was 20 by the time the west ham woke up. West ham in this one, they were worse than harrison butker. Things were interesting with this overhead kick. Its like simone biles doing football. Manchester city ultimately cruised 31. Made history. First team in 135 years of english mens league football. Thats how long ive been coming on this show to talk about soccer. Four consecutive top flight titles, backtoback to backtoback. I have to mention, theres currently 115 charges for alleged breaches of financial regulation. What we watched, the mens cognisant dissents. Chatgpt in cleats. Theyre a soulcrushing machine, and theyve done something no one has done before. But in slightly more human, deeply emotional scenes, joe, you mentioned it. Your manager, jurgen klopp, managed his last game at liverpool after nearly nine seasons. Delivered seven major trophies. Made them a club legend, the city legend. Honestly, even i, hardly human, have not been so emotional over a boss who wasnt actually mine since Michael Scott left the office. This was less a game of office. It was a living weight, joe. You must have shed the tear. Tears, hugs for this deeply empathetic, master motivator, who has given fans a journey of a lifetime, full of memories, moments, human truths. Youll understand, in a game he wasnt meant to win and he did, he said, if we fail, then lets fail in the most beautiful way. Joe, these are human truths to live by. Youll never lose them, even though he is gone and now his watch has ended. I remember at the beginning, when he first came to liverpool, even draws, he knew if he drew against a bad squad, he still had to make the fans believe. He acted like hed just won the Champions League final. I remember early on, also, him actually yelling at the fans when they started to leave the exit. At Press Conference afterwards, he goes, you want us to fight for 90 minutes . You fight for 90 minutes. You stay there in your seats, and you cheer for us until the very end or dont come at all. We dont want to see you in the stands. I will tell you, there was a bonding early on. They knew this guy was special. The players knew he was special. A little housekeeping here. You saying nice things about klopp. Thatd be like me saying something nice about an auburn coach. You are an everevertonian. Barely survived last year. More comfortable this time. We have leeds united, always Exciting Team. Ipswich like farmers who decided to play football. Leicester city. Wonderful team, slightly dodge dodgey financially. America, its a phil jackson, steve kerr, and Gregg Popovich all had a bastard german offspring. Oliver came on the show and said it is less the trophies hell remember, its more the memories, the collective memories which hell have for his whole life. He called them tattoos on his soul. Ultimately, im only telling you this because whether you care about football or dont care about football, the memories are what are important. I think jurgen klopp, joe, gave you and all liverpool fans much of it. Extraordinary. My children, myself, incredible memories. I can only say that mika and i are both very excited about seeing ipswich town next year in the premier League Playing football with pitch forks and hoes. Very exciting. The farmer players. Itll be very exciting. All right. Mika, you have 90 days until it all starts again. Godspeed. Thank you so much. Godspeed. I cant wait. Right. Okay, roger, thank you very, very much. Still ahead on morning joe, more on the Breaking News out of iran, where irans president and Foreign Minister were killed in a Helicopter Crash. Plus, David Leonhardt of the New York Times will join us to explain why he says these years have been arguably the most productive period of washington bipartisanship in decades . Ill end that with a question mark. Also ahead, well speak with acting Secretary Of Labor julie su about the state of the economy. Morning joe will be right back. Back have Heart Failure with unresolved symptoms . It may be time to see the bigger picture. Heart failure and seemingly unrelated symptoms like carpal tunnel syndrome, shortness of breath, and Irregular Heartbeat could mean something more serious, called attrcm a rare, underdiagnosed disease that worsens over time. Sound like you . Call your cardiologist and ask about attrcm. Smile you found it. The feeling of Finding Psoriasis cant filter out the real you. So go ahead, live unfiltered with the one and only sotyktu, a oncedaily pill for moderate to Severe Plaque Psoriasis, and the chance at clear or almost clear skin. 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Also, try our Allergy Headache and nighttime pills. It is the top of the hour. Look at that shot. Welcome back to morning joe. It is monday, may 20th. Jonathan lemire, Richard Haass, and David Ignatius are still with us. Beautiful shot. Yes, it is. Were following the Breaking News. Iranian staterun media is reporting the countrys president and Foreign Minister have both been killed in a Helicopter Crash. It happened in a foggy mountainous region in the northwest part of iran. There were nine people on board at time, leaving no survivors. Irans first Vice President is now the acting president. The countrys cabinet has also appointed a new Foreign Minister. And the death of irans two top leaders could have significant implications for the country and also the region and the world. Foreign correspondent Josh Lederman has more on that aspect of this Breaking News. Reporter the middle east already on a knifes edge over the war in gaza, attacks on red sea shipping, and nuclear bring brinksmanship. Now, the helicopter going down nearly a month after iraq attacks israel. Now, the region holding its breath, fearing a regional war. In the days after irans Foreign Minister, also on the helicopter, spoke to nbc, issuing this threat. He says, if israel takes a Decisive Action against my country and this is proven to us, a response will be immediate and to the maximum and will cause them to regret it. So far, no signs of foul play in the downed helicopter, still, ripple effects could be held worldwide. Raisi is a protege of irans ultimate decision making, khamenei. Hes on seen a crackdown on womens freedoms, iran now enriching uranium at weapons grade levels, supplying russia for its war in ukraine, and backing hezbollah in lebanon and houthis attacking ships in the red sea. Irans constitution says if the president dies, the Vice President takes over the role. A new election will be called within 50 days. How it will change iran is unknown, but with raisi gone, the middle east is again holding its breath. Josh lederman, nbc news. David ignatius, what does this death mean for iran, for the region, for the world . Joe, i think the momentum of the Iranian State, especially in its Foreign Policy, i wouldnt expect there be any significant change. I do think this brings a period where iran, because it is going through a Succession Quandary, wouldnt call it a Succession Crisis. Raisi, the now dead president was the frontrunner to become the next Supreme Leader. In the Succession Quandary, they may be a little more cautious. There will be political tests, jousting back home. Im struck, joe, by the contrast between an iran that continues with this kind of momentum of its clerical regime, where were not expecting any major changes, and israel, where we have a really fundamental battle now between Prime Minister netanyahu and two key challengers, benny gantz, who we talked about in the last hour. Remember the war cabinet, gallant, challenging netanyahu directly, saying, you dont have a plan for the future. Hey, david . Yes . Can you break that down for a minute . You know, we speak a good bit in the United States about benny gantz. Im not so sure, and you referenced this, im not so sure he has quite the support that he needs to make a difference. That said, i know youre Hearing Reports out of the region that netanyahu i certainly am netanyahu more isolated than ever. Really getting it from all sides. Joe, what i have been hearing over the last week is that at the senior levels of the idf, the Israel Defense forces, there has been a feeling that Prime Minister netanyahus leadership simply isnt taking israel to the kind of acceptable conclusion of the war in gaza. Theyre the ones doing the fighting, losing lives, and theyre frustrated with the leadership level. The first sign of it was the Defense Minister speak. He spoke with me in an interview a week ago and then spoke to israel the next day in public. His message was, we need to be more honest about whats ahead in gaza. It will be led by palestinians. Thats the one thing that netanyahu has been reluctant to say. The Defense Minister, gallant, and now gantz, a strong figure, represented by israelis, both of these people have significant Military Leadership of a kind that netanyahu himself never has had. I think theyre now getting in position. Given netanyahus unpopularity, were likely to see, i think, a Real Battle For Succession in israel. Just to think about these two major combatants, iran and israel, each going through a period of transition. It adds a new element of instability. Im sure for the u. S. , for Jake Sullivan and brett mcguirk, the issue is to maintain calm, avoid regional aggression by unexpected actions in the period where the basics have come unstuck. Well, and, Richard Haass, yesterday, i mean, lets just look at what happened yesterday. Iran lost its Foreign Minister and president in a Helicopter Crash. You have, again, rising tensions with netanyahu. Not only the Security Establishment angry with him, Hostage Families and others really pulling him from all sides. Then Jake Sullivan, americas National Security adviser in saudi arabia, talking about deep, longterm security commitments. Thats a lot. We have a lot of moving pieces just yesterday. We do have a lot of moving pieces, joe. I have a slightly different take on it. I dont think what happened in iran has real nearterm implications. The only question is down the road, when they get to choosing a new Supreme Leader. When the current one, who has been in office for, what, 35 years, finally dies, whether this raises questions of legitimacy, which could have an impact on the regime. In israel, both gallant and gantz challenging netanyahu, but they dont have the votes. I think, you know, their criticisms of him lack a certain traction. My guess is Bibi Netanyahu hangs in there, perhaps longer than a lot of people watching this would want to see. Indeed, neither one of them is challenging him on rafah. That is what is also so interesting to me. Theres real disagreement about what comes next but not what comes now. I think the thing with Jake Sullivan and the saudis, though hey, richard, can you explain one thing we dont hear that much in the American Press . We talk about netanyahu and the problems with his policy, him taking an extremist view. The fact is, an overwhelming majority of israelis, regardless of how they feel about netanyahu, regardless how they feel about ultimate peace plan with the palestinians, want to Go Into Rafah and finish hamas off. Thats really not open to debate by many, is it, in israel . No, i think youre right. When i was just there, thats what i heard from virtually all sides. The problem is, you cant quote, unquote, finish hamas off, which is why the conversation about what comes next is so essential. Youll still have thousands of hamas fighters who will be comingled with the population. The question then is what kind of a force for security and governance and this is where it connects with the saudi thing, joe. What is missing here is an israeli willingness to introduce some clear, physical role for palestinians as part of a presence in gaza and a political agenda for the palestinians that would lead toward some satisfaction of their political goals. Thats what the saudis are going to need to normalize relations with israel. They want to do that. The arabs across the board want to do that, but they need something from this government in israel. Thats the one thing this government in israel cant or wont give them because the government will unravel on them. You know, i think, ultimately, its a really frustrating situation where the one thing israel has wanted for decades, which is normalization with the arab world, is really at hand. Right now, you have an idealogical government in israel that simply doesnt prioritize that. Theyre more interested in keeping the occupied territories and even settling them further. I mean, its what netanyahu has been playing for over the past decade, to do everything he can to keep hamas afloat. Doing that, weve explained it before, others in israel have explained it before, by actually funding hamas through qatar and other third parties and undermining the Palestinian Authority in the west bank so they can have the illegal settlements continue there. He has not wanted, like hamas, netanyahu has not wanted a twostate solution. He has not wanted peace. I will say, though, and weve been talking about this, jonathan lemire, actually for quite some time. Despite the terror of october 7th, despite the civilian suffering in gaza since then, despite the chaos in the region, our arab allies have been steadfast, quietly steadfast, but quietly Standing Shoulder to shoulder, continuing to talk to the Biden Administration. I mean, extraordinary shuttle diplomacy. Im sure nobody will ever win a Nobel Peace Prize for it, but they should if you look at whats been happening since october 7th. The Biden Administration has been over there nonstop. What have they done . Theyve kept the saudis, jordan, the emiratis, kept egypt, kept Everybody Standing by shoulder to shoulder, saying we will help if the United States is there with us. All in a post war world in gaza. It was extraordinary. Yesterday underlined that. Sullivan just in the region. Secretary of state blinken has been there repeatedly. They have, to many point, for the most part, outside of the Houthi Rebels and a few smaller proxy skirmishes, kept this war from expanding throughout the region. All eyes watching the fallout from the Helicopter Crash that killed the iranian president. National Security Council officials telling me the last couple days, as well, they do expect israel to head into rafah. Now that perhaps some progress has been made, sullivan leaving, they still think itll happen. The International Criminal Court Announced it is seeking Arrest Warrants for hamas leader, yahya sinwar, and also israel Prime Minister benjamin netanyahu. Theyll charge netanyahu with war crimes and Crimes Against Humanity for the aftermath of the war there, for whats happened in gaza, as well as the head of hamas for what happened on october 7th. Wow. Okay. Well be following that. Richard haass and David Ignatius, thank you, both, very much for coming on this morning. We appreciate it. Still ahead on morning joe, former President Trump claims hes done more for black voter than Abraham Lincoln. Were going to take a look at his pitch to nra members. First, our next guest says for all of our countrys political problems and for all of the real risks to our democracy, not everything in washington is broken. Senior writer for the New York Times, David Leonhardt, joins us next to explain. Youre watching morning joe. Well be right back. Switch to shopify and sell smarter at every stage of your business. Take full control of your brand with your own custom store. Scale faster with tools that let you manage every sale from every channel. And sell more with the best converting checkout on the planet. A lot more. Take your business to the next stage when you switch to shopify. Welcome back to morning joe. Live look at the white house. A pretty morning in washington. 18 past the hour. President biden delivered the Commencement Address at Morehouse College yesterday in his most direct engagement with College Students since the start of the israelhamas war. A few students protested the speech by turning their backs to the stage, but there were no interruptions. The president told graduates at the historic black school that he was still working toward an immediate ceasefire in gaza. He also highlighted his policies that have helped Black Americans and promised to defend democracy against extremist forces he says threaten the soul of the nation. Democracy is also about hearing and heeding. For generations called to a Community Free of gun violence and a plan free of climate crisis. And showing your power to change the world. But also know, some of you ask, what is democracy . We cant stop wars that break out and break our hearts. In a democracy, we debate and dissent about americas role in the world. I want to say this very clearly, i support peaceful, nonviolent protest. Your voices should be heard. I promise you, i hear them. I never thought id be a president at a time when there is a National Effort to ban books. To erase history. They dont see you in the future of america, but theyre wrong. To me, we make history, not erase it. We know black history is american history. Joining the conversation, we have president of the National Action network and host of msnbcs politics nation, reverend al sharpton. Msnbc contributor mike barnicle. Professor at Princeton University and New York Times best selling author, eddie glaude jr. And msnbc contributor and author of the book how the right lost its mind, charlie sykes. Rev, well start with you. How do you think the president did at morehouse . I thought it was a very good speech. I thought that he really made some very key points, including his outright call for an immediate ceasefire. But i also think where he listed things like the George Floyd Justice and policing act, the Voting Rights act, specific things about how black unemployment is down in terms of record unemployment, so it was a substantive speech and inspirational. It was at a place that many of us see as sacred ground, Martin Luther king jr. Came from morehouse, among many others. I thought it was the place to do it. I thought the students protested. It was a small amount, but they did it with the dignity that did not scar the school. At the same time, respected the graduation. I thought it was a winwin for both the students and for the president. One of the colleges, most esteemed graduates, eddie glaude jr. , happens to be with us right now. Talk about why this speech at this location, at this time was so important, eddie . First of all, great to see everybody. Full disclosure, i was in consultation with the president and the white house around the speech, and im on the Board Of Trustees at morehouse. Im already implicated in all this. I think it was a really important moment. I think it is a really important moment for a number of different reasons. The first one is that this is the first time the president has stepped on a College Campus in the midst of all the protest around the nation. Here he had to thread, i think, the needle. How do you give voice to the legitimate nature of some of the concerns, that is to say the voicing of democracy on campus, however we might disagree . This is what happens on College Campuses. How do you give expression or give voice to the threat, the looming threat of democracy in this current election . I thought he did a wonderful job. Obviously, i would. I thought the framing, joe, around friday, you know, the crucifixion, and sunday, the resurrection, and saturday christians. What did he mean by focusing on saturday . That is, were in this difficult moment, this moment that there seems no way out. Then he uses that as a way of framing graduation on sunday. I thought it was well done. I thought it was well done. Its beautiful. Charlie sykes, all of what eddie just told us, the president did talk about the day that christ was killed, a friday, and the day that christ rose from the dead, a sunday. He spoke about what happens on saturday. Everybody forgets what happened on saturday. People were panicking. People thought they had lost everything. Christ was dead. Christ had been killed. But the president used the concept of faith, and he began to tell parts of his own story in terms of have faith going forward. Faith will keep you strong. Faith will heal. Faith will help the country. I dont know about eddie or anybody else, but listening to that speech, reading the speech again last night, it gave me the idea, the thought that the president was going to start to begin telling his story in contrast to Donald Trumps story, about have faith, america. Things are not going to be all this bad. Things arent as bad as people sometimes make them out to be. Meaning trump making them out to be. What was your take on it . Well, first of all, i gave him a lot of credit going onto a College Campus at this particular time. Also, i was struck by the same thing, the fact that he is so willing to engage in the language of faith. You know, basically, taking this to the critics who have been saying that, somehow, you know, this is a test of 2024 is a test of christianity. The way that donald trump bizarrely has wrapped himself in the mantle of evangelical christianity, despite his personal character. So i think that what youre seeing is joe biden is leaning into it, saying, okay, you know what . I am a man of faith. I am going to speak in this language. Im going to speak in terms that make it relevant to the moment that we are in right now. One world has died. Were struggling to see what will come of it, whether we will come back. Obviously, this is a message of hope. In fact, we will be able to come back. There is a resurrection coming on sunday morning, which is an important message. On the one hand, he has to sound the alarm about how dangerous and scary the times are. Also, provide some sense of what tomorrow might look like. Right. Heres Something Else that happened on saturday. At an nra conference, donald trump again claimed he is the best president for Black Americans. And that he did more for the black community as president than Abraham Lincoln, who, of course, abolished slavery. Take a look. Likewise, were doing Record Numbers with the africanAmerican Voters. They are tired of whats happening to them. Honestly, theres been no president since Abraham Lincoln, and perhaps in a certain way, including Abraham Lincoln, but no president since Abraham Lincoln what has done more for the black individual in this country than president donald j. Trump. Theres been nobody. Not even close. Well, you know, that statement is an insult to the intelligence of the American Voters of all races. Yes. Donald trump under his presidency nominated three justices that he takes credit for ending womens right to choose. These same three justices helped to change Voting Rights forever, taking out certain parts of the Voting Rights bill, and ended affirmative action. Thats what donald trump did. We had record black unemployment. He gave a fraction of what joe biden has given to hbcus. For him to say that he did more for blacks than barack obama, than fdr, than eisenhower, im talking about republican and democrat, doing more than barack obama, he didnt do more than george bush who i marched on every opportunity i had. For him to say that is to say that were stupid. For him to float out there hes thinking of appealing to black voters by putting someone like tim scott on the ticket, i dare donald trump to put tim scott on the ticket. Tim scott helped to sabotage the george floyd bill. He, Kamala Harris, and the senator from new jersey was supposed to be the ones who bring it together, and scott stopped it. Scott also opposed many of our efforts in the civil rights community. Be my guest, donald. Think you can placate us with somebody who just reflects to you rather than serve their constituents. Jonathan lemire, it goes together. Were talking about faith. You have donald trump who compares himself to god or his followers say he is a christlike figure. Donald trump says hes never done anything that requires forgiveness from jesus. Then this comparison to Abraham Lincoln. Just look at his appointments. Look at the Record Number of white men appointed to be federal judges and u. S. Attorneys. I mean, just overwhelmingly exclusionary of Black Americans. Again, you know, a president can appoint who a president wants to appoint, but, please, dont say that youre the new Abraham Lincoln if you basically had an almost whites only club for judges and u. S. Attorneys. Yeah, the least Diverse Administration in modern american history. Thats what donald trump had. Yet, polls suggest he is making some inroads with black voters. It is mystifying to some in the biden camp. The president just concluded a week of events aimed at black voters, trying to win them back, trying to show then, look, heres what ive done for you and heres what i can keep doing. Its important. If the numbers stay where they are, even if trump makes some inroads, and i dont think anyone suggests he makes the Inroads Polls suggest, but in a race this close, it might mean something. Eddie, first, trump compared himself to franklin d. Roosevelt, with the idea of serving more than two terms, and then suggesting hes done more for Black Americans than any president since Abraham Lincoln. The dual threats, give us your thoughts. I mean, its not gaslighting. I mean, rev is absolutely right. Donald trump in the moment is not gaslighting us. He is just being stupid. It doesnt make any sense on any level. But i think the question, though, how you framed this, jonathan and joe, is about what does it mean that there seems to be a Softening Of Black Support for joe biden . How do we understand that . How do we make sense of that . This is the way ive been thinking about it. Tell me what you think about what im saying here. Its not so much about biden himself. Its about how do white liberals respond in a moment when it seems that conservatism or white racism, lets not equate the two, but white racism has flared, the fever dream has flared. It seems as if racists, or donald trump or maga folk, are losing their mind, folk arent fighting hard enough in response to them. Around the Voting Rights act, the george floyd act, there is this sense of, youre not fighting for us, theyre losing their minds, were just not going to do much here. I think President Biden has to show, even more forcefully, how he is fighting for the america that his rhetoric suggests. I dont know if that make sense, but im reaching for something other than black folks being apathetic or might vote for trump. Something else is happening underneath this. Yeah. There is, charlie, again, charlie sykes, following up on what eddie said, a real concern, that extreme maga supporters are following a president who, you know, is the president of charlottesville, the charlottesville tiki torch riots. A president who made more racist and inflammatory comments than any president in recent history. The question is, how do the peter millar vest wearing republican investors, the dow just went over 40,000, how do we react to that . What donald trump did, what his supporters are doing, what he is pledging on doing, again, in terms of police violence, hes made it very, very clear that he wants to immunize Police Officers no matter what they do in terms of africanamericans. To eddies point here, what you see with donald trump is not just historical ignorance, comparing himself to Abraham Lincoln, but there is a little gaslighting here. Donald trump believes that if you just say something, somehow, it makes it real. Somehow, were in this Reality Distortion Field where donald j. Trump is saying that he has done more for africanamericans than lbj, fdr, Abraham Lincoln, and barack obama. We need to take a deep breath here and understand the technique. Here is somebody who has played upon racial division, racial fears. This has been part of his brand from the very, very beginning, going back to the central park five. Yet, he is standing up there saying, i am the new Abraham Lincoln. If that is not gaslighting, i dont know what is. Again, obviously, its also the stupidity of burns in terms of the historical parallels. Charlie sykes and eddie glaude jr. , thank you, both, very much for being on this morning. All right. Coming up, were going to dig into the strength of the u. S. Economy with acting labor secretary julie su. Also ahead, well show you what a possible running mate of donald trump had to say about accepting the results of novembers election. Another one, another one. 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Risks of surgery include pain, infection, heart attack, stroke, death, and other serious risks. Ask your doctor for important safety information. [camera shutter] to find a doctor who uses mako visit makocan. Com oh no with chewy, get flea meds delivered before the itching begins or after. But before is definitely better. Good job. Save 20 on your first pharmacy order and get it delivered right on time. We need to revive the spirit of bipartisanship in the country. That sounds bizarre in light of where we are. Spirit of being able to work with one another. When i say that, and i said it from the time i announced, i was told, well, maybe that was the way things used to work, joe. You got a lot done, joe, but you cant do that anymore. Im here to tell you and say we can. We must if were going to get anything done. Democracy requires consensus. Im running as a proud democrat, but i will govern as an american president. Then candidate joe biden one month before the 2020 election. Fast forward to today. Despite all the divisions we hear about in washington, all we see, all we read about, President Biden and congressional leaders have been able to deliver on a number of bipartisan results since his inauguration. Let me just say, that was joe biden in 2020. I will tell you, and we talked about it a good bit on this show, in 2021, even early into 2022, you actually had people on both sides mocking joe biden saying he is an old man, a man out of time. Maybe that worked when he was in the senate. That doesnt work now. Its not just republicans or people in the media saying it, it was people saying you cant work with republicans. Democrats and republicans cant Work Together to get anything done these days. Well, with us now, Senior Editor for the New York Times, David Leonhardt. He argues in a new piece that the unexpected coordination could be contributed to a new age of centrism. David, i want to read part of this that jumped out at me yesterday when i was reading the times. In a country thats supposed to have been gridlocked federal government the last four years, hard to explain, these have been arguably the most productive period of washington bipartisanship in decades. It has been since the clinton era. Under President Biden, you write, Bipartisan Majorities have passed major laws on infrastructure and semiconductor chips, as well as laws on veterans health, gun violence, the postal service, the aviation system, samesex marriage, antiasian hate crimes, and the electoral process. On trade, the Biden Administration has kept some of the trump administrations Signature Policies and even expanded them. The trend continued over the past month with the bipartisan bill to ukraine and, of course, tiktok, the tiktok issue. David, listen, this is extraordinary. You try to explain that theres a Common Thread that runs through a lot of this legislation. There is. I mean, that does not sound like a gridlocked washington, does it . No, it doesnt. No. I think the Common Thread is that we see on both the left and the right, both in the Democratic Party and the Republican Party, a new skepticism about what people often describe as neoliberalism or the washington consensus. There was this idea in the 90s and early 2000s that were going to do free Market Economics and itll make America Prosperous and china free. Those predictions went 0 for 2. Our economy has been struggling, particularly for middle class and Working Class people for decades. Obviously, this world of more open markets has not led to a freer china or freer russia. For all the problems we have, for all the threats to democracy that, as youve been covering, donald trump represents in many ways, for all the problems we have, we do have this shared recognition among large parts of the Democratic Party and some parts of the Republican Party, that the government needs to do more, both to help people in this country and to take on our foreign rivals. I use the word neopopulism, and thats what we see in a lot of the bills. In reading your piece, probably 3,000 words filled with insight and accuracy, i couldnt help but think that all of the programs that have been passed with bipartisan effort that you pointed out, that theres not as much gridlock as most people think in washington, d. C. , yet, still, out in the country, the legislation that used to be aimed at helping people grow their families, do a little bit better, that is still seemingly not there as much as it ought to be. Im wondering, do you think herashio is dead . He was always exaggerated but he is not dead. Biden hasnt turned the economy 180 degrees. Things take a long time. Well still need more policies to help workers. Labor unions play an important role, and theyre very much on the defensive. I think education plays an important role, and our Education System has terrible problems, exacerbated by the School Closures during covid. Im not suggesting that everything is great. What i would instead say is, i think we have seen a little bit of a Turning Point here. The question is, does it continue to the point where americans actually are experiencing meaningful improvements in their Living Standards . Thats not going to happen on a president ial campaign timetable, but it could happen eventually. David, when i read your piece, the thing that the question that i wanted to raise, and thankfully i have the opportunity to raise it to you directly, is that there has been a lot done in a bipartisan way, yet, both parties dont emphasize this bipartisanship. Do you think it is because on the right and the left, the liberal and the conservative, the fear of being called sellouts by the extremists, so they kind of quietly do this, which is for the good of all, but dont tell anybody almost . I do. I do think thats part of it. Look, just to be a little bit critical of my own industry, i think some of it is that we in the media cover conflict, right . Conflict tends to get a lot of the attention. Whereas, when you actually see consensus and legislating, it gets less attention. One interesting example here is President Bidens most popular accomplishments are these things on health care, lowering Health Care Costs. Those were a partisan bill. Republicans did not vote for them. But republicans have skillfully spent little time criticizing the bill. Itd lead to conflict and get more attention. They dont want it to get more attention because of how popular it is. Lets move beyond the beltway. Where you seeing this in the states, as well . Statehouses, city halls, state legislatures, the move to centrism, and, if so, will the officials one day carry that to washington, as well . States and cities have always been better at finding Bipartisan Solutions and solutions that are a little less driven by these national, divisive issues than washington is. What i would say that we see real agreement around the country on, and this is an issue thats tough for democrats, is immigration. You see both democratic governors and republican governors and mayors saying, hey, our border is broken. That is something that has been arguably the Biden Administrations biggest domestic failure, their inability to solve that border problem. And you see from both democrats and republicans around the country this basically pleading to washington, please solve this issue. We cannot deal with these levels of migration that weve been having in denver, in chicago, in new york, and obviously along the southern border. Senior writer for the New York Times, David Leonhardt, thank you so much for coming in. Great piece. Thank you. We appreciate it. Next hour, Michael Cohen is set to return to the witness stand in Donald Trumps criminal trial. There he is leaving his apartment moments ago this morning as he makes his way to the New York City courthouse. Were going to go over what to expect from todays testimony. Plus, Rudy Giuliani taunts the Arizona Attorney general against serving him with an indictment. She was happy to oblige. Well explain what happened ahead on morning joe. obamacare is a disaster, we want to terminate it. that would mean over A Hundred Million americans will lose protections for preexisting conditions President Biden has protected the Affordable Care act and lowered Health Care Costs for millions by 800 a year. Now, hell make those savings permanent. Health care should be a basic right. Folks, hes coming for your health care and were not going to let it happen. [applause] im joe biden and i approve this message. Its time. Yes, the time has come for a fresh approach to dog food. Everyday, more dog people are deciding its time to quit the kibble and feed their dogs fresh food from the farmers dog. Made by vets and delivered right to your door precisely portioned for your dogs needs. Its an idea whose time has come. 51 past the hour. A live look at the capitol. Aprils job market could be cooling off. The u. S. Added 175,000 jobs last month, below the 240,000 that was estimated. This comes as aprils Unemployment Number ticked up slightly rising to 3. 9 against an estimate of 3. 8. Joining us now, acting labor secretary julie su. Lets talk about the jobs numbers, numbers ticking up a little bit. And overall, the strength of the economy, Average American is still feeling it. How do these jobs numbers play into it . Lets look at the overall numbers here. Since President Biden came into office, we have had 15. 8 million jobs created. Thats the most of any president in the same time period. At the same time, as you noted, the Unemployment Rate remains under 4 . It has now been under 4 for 27 months straight. Over two years. Thats the longest stretch since the 1960s. If you look at the big picture, especially compared to what President Biden inherited when he came to office, this is a sign that the steady, stable growth that the president promised and that his experienced leadership is able to deliver is something that is happening across the country. The work is paying off. Madame Secretary Digging into the numbers, while the Labor Force Participation rate for prime age workers is strong overall, it hit a historic high for working women, the highest since data has been collected. To what do you put this on . Again, the president has said from day one, were going to build an economy from the bottom out. And our investments are reflecting that commitment to equity. And so women, for too long have been left out of good job opportunities, and we are saying no more, not on our watch, and women are coming back into the labor market. Remember how devastating covid was for women workers. Were seeing that the investments were making, the commitment to an infrastructure that will support women in the workplace is also making a difference. I think hybrid work, too, also helped. Theres been some interesting positive offshoots of what we learned during covid, we end up doing a lot more. It makes it more possible. Yeah. And part of the story, mika, is theres more work to do. We are saying that we have made significant progress, especially when you look at where we started in january of 2021, but also we know theres a study that we did that says if this country invested in our care infrastructure, because women still bear the majority of responsibility for care work, and in family supporting policies like a National Paid leave policy, the way comparable countries do, we would be able to bring 5 million more women into the work force, to the tune of 775 billion. And you would lose less too. So the question isnt can we afford to do it, the question is how can we afford not to. And then inflation, really quickly, it feels really bad at the Grocery Store issue. This is, you know, one of the president s number one economic priorities. And, you know, we are fighting on all fronts, right, of course the cost of health care is one of the things that the American People feel and we have brought down the cost of health care. We are looking at the cost of prescription drugs. Negotiating drugs and making sure insulin is capped at 35 a month. Fighting inflation is the number one priority. The economic policies have resulted in real wage gains, for low and middle income americans, more Breathing Room and more room in Working Families pockets. Youre the only aanhpi cabinet secretary. Thoughts on how we should be recognizing these communities . Yeah, i mean, this is a month to celebrate the beautiful diversity of all of us who call ourselves native americans, pacific islanders, and the celebration of diversity is core to who he is, having ambassador catherine thai on the United States stage, a Vice President whose mother was born in india and understands the immigrant experience, core to the values the president brings to the country. Happy aanhpi heritage month. Thank you so much, acting labor secretary julie su, thank you very much for coming in this morning. Still ahead, the latest developments out of iran, following the death of countrys president and Foreign Minister in a Helicopter Crash. And Donald Trumps criminal Hush Money Trial resumes this morning. Well preview what will happen in court and who will be there today. And the big moments on and off the course at this weekends Pga Championship. Morning joe is back in a moment. Moment and tough to keep wondering if this is as good as it gets. 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Some people just know that the best rate for you is a rate based on you, with allstate. Because theres a right way to. Stop and the speed limit definitely isnt. 700 million mph. So why would you pay a rate based on. A terrible boss with a terrible haircut save with, ooh. Save with drivewise and get a rate based on you. Youre in good hands with allstate sure, im a paid actor, and this is not a real company, but there is no way to fake how upwork can help your business. Search talent all over the world with over 10,000 skills you may not have in house. More than 30 of the fortune 500 use upwork because this is how we work now. President trump have agreed to two debates this summer. For a preview take a bottle of ambien. Trump responded lets get ready to rumble, two phrases that are guaranteed to lock up the youth vote. Donald trump said that at the debates he wants both of them to stand instead of sit. Thats the status of our presidency. Standing is a feat of strength. We can learn a lot more watching them both try to get out of a bean bag chair. That would be a good one as the president ial candidates prepare to debate next month, Donald Trumps Hush Money Trial, the criminal trial resumes today in New York City. Were going to have expert legal analysis on the case so far and a preview of what could be the final week in court. Plus well have some of the highlights from President Bidens Commencement Speech at Morehouse College where he attempted to thread the needle on several issues connected to his reelection campaign. Also ahead, well recap a wild weekend at the Pga Championship with new details about the arrest of Scottie Scheffler. That was incredible. Well show you the dramatic final putt to win the major tournament. Good morning, and welcome to morning joe. Its monday, may 20th. With us, we have the host of Way Too Early White House Bureau chief at politico, jonathan lemire, president emeritus of the council on foreign relations, Richard Haass, columnist and associate editor for the Washington Post David Ignatius is with us and formed supreme allied commander of nato, retired fourstar Navy Admiral James stavridis, chief International Analyst for nbc news. And we have this incredible panel because there is major Breaking News that happened overnight. Iranian state media is reporting that the nations president raisi and the countrys Foreign Minister have died in a Helicopter Crash. Search teams arrived at the site of what was originally called a hard landing and found no sign of life. According to a news outlet affiliated with the iranian government, seven other officials were on board the aircraft at the time of the accident. The Associated Press cites Iranian State tv as giving no immediate cause for the collision, although weather could be a factor. The group was returning from an event near irans border are azerbaijan when the Helicopter Crashed. Heavy fog prevented search and rescue teams from finding the crash for hours. A hard line conservative in the iranian political landscape, raisi had been irans president since 2021. David ignatius, your thoughts and concerns given this Breaking News . At a time when theres war and instability across the middle east, this adds one more element. Its unlikely to mean any sharp change. The true leader is the Supreme Leader, but hes 85. And raisi, the president was wildly seen as the most likely successor to him. So this creates a kind of Succession Quandary for iran. In the immediate future, the current Vice President , will become interim president in effect. Elections will be declared days from now in theory well have a new iranian president. That person isnt likely to be fundamentally different in policies. That is a regime that moves in step. The future after, the talk that his own son might be a leading candidate. Hes said to be favored by the irgc. One other interesting phenomenon here, even as iran has been deepening its confrontation with israel, firing 100 Ballistic Missiles and more than 200 drones in april, none of which were successful, its been trying to open more of a dialogue with the United States. Last week, an Iranian Foreign Ministry Official met with brett mcgurk, our top nsc person in iran to talk about issues of concern. At the time of the strike, the iranians made an attempt to contact the u. S. Through the swiss embassy, exchange messages, understanding exactly who would do what. I think were heading into a period as khamenei himself said there will be no disruption in iranian policy. Think about it, you have uncertainty in iran, uncertainty in israel, you have almost an open contest for future leadership of israel and youve got an american president ial election. You couldnt have a more unstable mix of factors over the middle east at this most dangerous time. Joe. And certainly, admiral, we have heard about the great dangers that we have been facing in the region obviously since october 7th and certainly with iran. I will say, though, its fascinating hearing what david said regarding irans contacts with the swiss embassy. I heard the same thing, and im sure you did too after the killing of soleimani, the iranians fired some missiles at u. S. Targets and immediate told people in the region please get back to the United States. Thats it. We had to show some force for domestic consumption. You of course had the eyes warning iran, a back channel about an imminent Terror Attack a few months ago. Things are not always as cut and dry as they appear. And i would just love for you to go through your decades of experience dealing in the region, dealing with iran directly or indirectly, and give us your best read on where we go from here. The only thing i know for sure is that the Vice President of the United States will not be going to teheran to attend this particular funeral. Theres certainly no love lost between our two countries. I think, joe, you and david are right to highlight two aspects of this that jump out at me. Number one, the presidency of iran, which will have to be filled and will be filled is not the prize here. The prize is who is the next Supreme Leader. Khamenei, the current incumbent has cancer, mid80s. Certainly thats going to come sooner than later. I would put my money on his son more than anybody else, but nobody knows the answer to that question, and thats going to drive a lot of internal maneuver and politics, and oh, by the way, if we think here in the United States were prone to conspiracy theory, certainly iran, its populous is prone to it, starved of actual information. Look for Conspiracy Theories that will pop up about who might have manufactured this, was israel involved, was the cia part of this. The answer to those questions is almost certainly no. Bad weather, probably bad maintenance. Probably bad airmanship is what caused this. The second big thing here, and again, you alluded to it a moment ago, iran does not want this to explode into a wider regional war. This is the last thing they would want now while theyre in the midst of their version of Game Of Thrones here. So look for the iranians to send signals to the United States, potentially to other actors until the region. Theyre close in the arab world with qatar, relatively so. Look for them to signal, look, let us alone right now. Weve got to sort this out. Now is not the time for anyone to take advantage. And richard, following up on that, obviously this president died at a time when he had been facing domestic unrest, also economically iran has been struggling. We can look back over the past 10, 15 years and see that iran is divided. You sort of Have Red State iran, blue state iran in that the urban center is far different than rural iran. This is a country divided, trying to figure out its way forward. It would seem to me the last thing they would want to do is begin a regional war. They got a lot on their plate, i agree. Say a few things, both the admiral and dave good it exactly right. One is raisis legacy is not real impressive. What was it about . It was about repression. He leaves a more divided society and real economic mismanagement. The currency is much weaker and so forth. Thats essentially what he has done. I think the fact that hes out of the running because hes dead for the Supreme Leader is interesting. It does go to khameneis son. It goes to a question of hereditary processes. Does that detract from the legitimacy of the Supreme Leader. I think the death of president has almost no impact in the short run because the president doesnt have a lot of authority over the things we would talk about on the show, National Security and so forth. Its more of a domestic role. The real question is what implications does it have for the longterm, legitimacy of the regime, and gets at the splits within the society. My own guess, though is this regime has more staying power and continuity than any of us would like to see. Yeah, no doubt about that. David ignatius, so following up, i think fascinating insight by richard when hes talking about how if being the Supreme Leader of iran is more hereditary, that further weakens at least in the eyes of shia in that region, the standing of at least religiously leadership in iran compared to sustani whos still in iraq, seen as the supreme shiite leader, the sort of hereditary pass down i think would possibly even weaken irans ultimate influence in iraq. So, owe, to me, raisi, the president now dead was a symbol of a regime in many ways running out of gas. Hes not a distinguished cleric, hes not somebody whose religious views were taken seriously. He was the enforcer, the judge, when Ayatollah Khamenei wanted to clean up in the late 80s, was the Hanging Judge and was said to have sent to execution more than a thousand people. He was the reliable servant of the revolution, but he didnt enhance or expand that revolution. During his time as president , we saw young iranians, just explosion of celebrating personal freedom, women taking off their head scarves throwing them away, risks, at least for some weeks and months being arrested. For a long time, the regime couldnt get that back under control. As a western diplomat said to me once, you need to think of iran being on a oneway street. The street is toward the end of the regime. How fast it will go down the street, hard to tell. It could be many many years. Theyre still very powerful. Theres no sign of the regime really rehabilitating itself in the cries of its people. Raisi was not a charismatic person, and theres little likelihood that the successors that come into place now will be any more so. The white house carefully watching developments unfold here. It was a 12hour search before these rescue crews found a helicopter, downed helicopter. And no signs of life. Really concerned that iran would try to point the fingers elsewhere for the crash, namely at israel, suggesting they would rather push a conspiracy that someone else did this, rather than accept fault that they couldnt protect their own president , it was a crash. That to this point has not happened in any real way. In a particularly unstable region, and u. S. Officials tell me theyre watching what if any response from the proxy groups, hezbollah and the like as they try to use this as impetus to spark further violence. At least to this point, relatively calm, but if this, mika, the helicopter has only been recovered in the last few hours, u. S. Officials speak to go allies in the region to try to get a sense of stability there. Lets bring in nbc news chief fortunate correspondent Richard Engel and nbc news chief International Correspondent keir simmons in the gulf region this morning. Richard, well start with you. Your analysis, and are you hearing any reaction from the region . Reporter so weve already heard quite a bit of reaction from hezbollah, from other groups. They are not at this stage blaming israel, blaming the United States. Theyre expressing their condolences and going back to the issue you were talking about, the future of iran, what this means for the Supreme Leader. Theyre praising the Supreme Leader. Theyre praising the theocracy. Theyre saying our loyalty, yes, our condolences, but our loyalty remains to the system of clerical rule in iran. Thats what this death highlightings. Iran has a Succession Crisis right now because its not that he was openly tapped to become the next Supreme Leader but thats the way its heading. There were two names ever mentioned, raisi, the president as the next potential Supreme Leader. The Supreme Leader is about 85 years old right now. Raisi who just died, only 63. If he had come to power, he likely would have been in power for two decades or so. His death is a profound moment. The other name mentioned, the son of the Supreme Leader, now, the fact that raisi died in a Helicopter Crash in fog, at this stage, no evidence or really any accusations that foul play was a factor more than foul weather, but still, if the Supreme Leader now tries to appoint his son or the people around him try and appoint his son after the previous president and the person who is going to get that job died in a Helicopter Crash, i think it would look suspicious. So i think there was a Succession Crisis, and it has potentially an opportunity for the Security Establishment there. The revolutionary guard to assert more and more control. Potentially this is a moment like Boris Yeltsin putin, where you have Boris Yeltsin, was to rule the country, unknown, noncharismatic, rises up and takes over and transforms the state. That could be. Well see if we head in that direction. Well certainly be watching. Nbcs Richard Engel, thank you very much. David. So i want to go, if we could, to keir simmons who is in the gulf, and keir, i would ask you to help us understand what impact this death of an iranian president will have on regimes in the region immediately. How will they perceive it . What difference will it make for them as they think about an iran that for most of them is their biggest threat . Yeah, i mean, i think the way you guys have framed it this morning, add to the dizzying counter veiling forces in the region right now, uncertainty in iran. Now, the first Vice President whos taking over as president , he went to russia in october, and did a deal which then supplied russia with more weapons, more iranian weapons, and in fact, President Putin today talking about what a great leader president raisi was, president xi of china, talking about him as a friend, so the partners of iran are out already sending their condolences. Other countries on the fence also sending condolences. Many countries from here in the gulf and the middle east sending messages because you do in circumstances like this. I think were into the law of Unintended Consequences in terms of what it means for irans Foreign Policy. Domestically, lets not forget that president raisi is the leader who presided over the crushing of protests in 2022, womens rights protests after the death of sole, will there be changes in terms of the Domestic Order of Foreign Policy, perhaps not, but then we just dont know. And its kind of a symbolizes, paints a picture of how the region changes. This is happening just as Jake Sullivan has just left saudi arabia and then israel trying as best he can to push a program of stability, if you will, a proposal of stability, which we know involves whats been described as a megadeal with saudi arabia, a nuclear deal, a trade deal, and at the same time, normalization with israel and at the same time a twostate solution for the palestinians. Incredibly difficult to achieve. Gets harder and harder it seems as the politics of the region unfolds and of course because of the war in gaza, and very very difficult because of the congressional politics in the u. S. And the fact that an election is coming. Take the question of a Civil Nuclear deal of saudi arabia that would be passed through the house and senate. And then we havent even mentioned the feud between benny gantz and benjamin netanyahu, spill that into the open just 24 hours or so before all of this happened, and now were talking about iran. Thats why its so difficult in this region, particularly right now. Coming up on morning joe, Michael Cohen will take the stand this morning in his third day of testimony in Donald Trumps criminal Hush Money Trial. Well have a preview of what to expect as the proceedings begin to wrap up. Youre watching morning joe. Were back in 90 seconds. Were back in 90 seconds heres to Getting Better with age. Heres to beating these two every thursday. Help fuel today with boost high protein, complete nutrition you need. Without the stuff you dont. So, heres to now. Boost. Why choose a sleep number smart bed . Can it keep me warm when im cold . So, heres to now. Wait, no, im always hot. Sleep number does that. Now, save 50 on the sleep Number Limited Edition smart bed. Plus, free Home Delivery when you add any base shop now at sleepnumber. Com you know, richard, but for the news out of the middle east, we would have started by talking about, really, just an extraordinary day of sports, pablo is going to be coming up in the next 15, 20 minutes, i wanted to give you a chance to do what a lot of New York Knicks fans have been doing over the past 12 hours or so, and just tipping their hat to an extraordinary effort by an extraordinary team. And, man, speaking of extraordinary, what happened out west with the timberwolves coming back last night, the pga, were not even talking about the red sox for the first time in 30 years, putting two hits together backtoback and winning a game. It was an extraordinary game. The knicks, no shame, joe, they ran out of gas. Literally broken bodies and broken hand for jalen brunson. They couldnt keep up. Indiana moved to a physical game. Indiana set records for shooting. I think they made 2 3 of their shots yesterday, better than 2 3. So look, knicks had a great run. Theyve got a great core. If they can keep them together, and as someone once said in baseball, theres always next year. But i dont think any new yorker feels anything but its been a great season, and they went as far as they could have gone. And what can you say about indiana coming in, playing at i think one of the most anticipated Sporting Events in new york in years. And just absolutely just shooting the lights out. Doing extraordinary job, and jonathan lemire, not only that, but then what happened in denver later in the evening. Yeah, i mean, the pacers rose to the moment. They ran out of gas. Brunson getting hurt is a fitting end to a team that broke down at the end. They couldnt play defense yesterday, and indiana couldnt miss. And then last night, i know well talk more about it a little bit, stunning, that denver had a 15point halftime lead, the defending champions, nicola djokovic, and looked lick like a denver route. Instead, minnesota comes back with the biggest Halftime Game Seven comeback ever and played just unbelievable lockdown defense. Unbelievable. They under up their offense and smothered the nuggets and an unlikely final four of minnesota, dallas, indiana, and yes, the boston celtics, and we did have to see a clip of Alex Rodriguez Cheering Excitedly as hes attempting to be part of the Minnesota Timberwolves ownership group. And pablo torre is standing by with a recap of the weekend and the Pga Championship. Morning joe is back in a moment. Back in a moment and i saved hundreds. Thats great. I know, ive bee telling everyone. Baby liberty. Oh baby liberty. How many people did you tell . Only pay for what you need. Jingle liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Baby liberty. The trump criminal Hush Money Trial will resume this morning for what could be the final day of testimony. Michael cohen is set to return to the stand for a third day of crossexamination. Former President Trumps legal team has said this will be its final day questioning him. The prosecution has already confirmed cohen is its final witness. And will likely rest its case after his testimony is complete. The defense focused much of thursdays crossexamination on a key 2016 call where cohen previously said he spoke directly to the former president about his Hush Money Payments to Stormy Daniels. Trump lawyer todd blanche pressed on the conversation bringing up a Text Exchange he had with trumps body guard right before the call which seemed to suggest the topic was about a prank caller, not Stormy Daniels. Cohen insisted the call was about both things. The second question and whether donald trump takes the stand. They were unsure if trump would testify even though he has said publicly he would like to. Trumps legal team also said they may not call any other witnesses. Judge merchan told both sides to be ready for Closing Arguments as early as tomorrow if the prosecution and the defense rest. And well have a live report from the courthouse where donald trump will be back at the defendants table just a short time from now. Nbcs Vaughn Hillyard joins us at the top of the hour. Morning joe is coming right back. Coming right back the virus that causes shingles is sleeping. In 99 of people over 50. And it could strike at any time. Think youre not at risk . Wake up. Because shingles could wake up in you. If youre over 50, talk to your doctor or pharmacist about shingles prevention. Tamra, izzy, and emma. No one puts more love into logistics than these three. You need them. They need a retirement plan. Work with principal so we can help you with a plan thats right for your team. Let our expertise round out yours. Engineered to minimize noise. And built for adventure. Which can also be your own quiet cabin in the woods. The fully electric q8 etron. An electric vehicle that recharges you. How we get there matters. This is the moment you dream of as a kid. Youve practiced it as a Kid Thousands and thousands of times, telling yourself it was for this very occasion. To win it all. Xander, with victory at valhalla. Xander schauffele winning his first major title yesterday, likely louisvilles last major tournament after what happened on friday. But his victory overshadowed by the events that did break during the show on friday when the top ranked player in the world, Scottie Scheffler was arrest ed after allegedly dragging a Police Officer with his car trying to get to work. Scheffler faces charges including Felony Assault of a Police Officer over what he calls a quote, misunderstanding. Lets bring in host of Pablo Torre Finds Out, pablo torre. We have so much to talk about. Lets start here, but first of all, a couple of interesting things over the weekend about that friday morning arrest, unbelievably, the body cam, no body cam turned on. Nope. Because mika kept saying, lets wait until we see the footage from the cops body cam, miraculously not on. Secondly, they write in the Police Report, this felony was charged in part because, quote, the Police Officers trousers were damaged beyond repair. Beyond repair. Thats right. I hope they enjoyed it. I hope they enjoyed it because i suspect pj will not be going back to louisville for quite some time. Talk about the tournament as well. Feel free to talk about friday as well. Quite an ending. Start with the beginning on friday before we get to the ending. I want to make clear, this is not where i envisioned talking about police misconduct, the pga with you, joe, and its not to think think im going to shed the most tears over in this broad macro perspective. Although the body camera was off, unsurprisingly, there was a van full of, excuse me, a van full of espn reporters right behind that talked to Sports Illustrated and everybody else in the world and said, we didnt see it. We didnt see the alleged dragging of the Police Officer. It seemed like a guy who did not know and this is not a sin because i dont think any of us picked Scottie Scheffler to be one of the faces you would recognize in golf as good as he is, but the guy didnt recognize him going to work. The reports are now that on tuesday, tomorrow, the charges will be dropped. Thats appropriate. This is ridiculous. I think it means that louisville will not host the pga anytime soon. But what it does also is overshadow what happened at the end, which you foreshadowed for us, what a tremendous win for Xander Schauffele, and for those who dont know Xander Schauffele, these are not tiger and rory, names america may be getting used to it, Xander Schauffele is a guy who had not won a major. The question goes from when will you win a major to can you win a major, and what he did against Bryson Dechambeau, winning on a walkoff birdie is a dramatic announcement, take me seriously, recognize me when i pull up to the driveway at the next major i play at. It didnt help the masters win, but perhaps this will help. Richard haass, im looking at your contract, even though we have paolo, youre the Roger Bennett, your take on what happened yesterday. Quite a dramatic finish. It was dramatic. Bryson dechambeau played the best golf of his career, almost won it. Xander schauffele got rid of the demons he couldnt end strong. Scheffler had his let down not on friday, but on saturday, his first overpar round since i dont know when. The other three rounds were fantastic. He had a top ten finish. One thing about scheffler, i have never heard this, hes in jail, hes waiting, and what does he do, on friday morning, he starts doing all of his exercises, he does his stretching, preround routine on the floor of the prison cell. I have heard of preshot routines. I have never heard of a preround routine this prison. Coming up, a recap of President Bidens busy weekend on the campaign trail. Well show you his message to graduates at Morehouse College about donald trump including this hypothetical question. Let me ask you, what do you think he would have done on january 6th if Black Americans had stormed the capitol . Im serious. What do you think . I can only imagine. Only imagine d for a condition you cant control. Youll get better when your pain isnt minimized, dismissed, forgotten. We will never stop trying to get better. Because when medicine gets better, all of us can get better. with so many choices on booking. Com there are so many tina feys i could be. So i hired body doubles. Indoorsy tina loves a deluxe suite. Ooh booking. Com booking. Yeah welcome back, donald trump says he will roll back national gun laws passed by the Biden Administration, if he retakes the white house in january. Speaking at the National Rifle Associations Annual convention in dallas on saturday, trump vowed to kill the dreams of quote, radical gun grabbers. Take a look. We will roll back every biden attack on the second amendment. The attacks are fast and furious, starting the minute that crooked joe shuffles his way out of the white house. Gun grabbers will run straight into a very very powerful brick wall. Their dreams of taking away your god given rights will die when the polls close on november 5th, 2024, those dreams that they have will be dead. They will be dead dreams. Gun safety is far from the only biden policy that trump is vowing to undo if reelected. Among the many he has promised measures against federal funding for issues pertaining to lgbtq plus rights. To that end, the Human Rights Campaign today is announcing a 15 Million Investment to mobilize voters in six key swing states. Joining us now, the president of the Human Rights Campaign and the Human Rights Campaign foundation, kelly robinson. She was recently named one of times 100 most influential people of 2024. Who and where are the voters youre hoping to rally to show up. Theres a lot happening in the world. This is something people can be excited about. We have identified 75 million voters that prioritize lgbtq issues when deciding who to vote for. Thats equivalent to the total voters in the swing states combined. What were seek to do is show up to the polls, make it clear exactly whats at stake, how scary and devastating a second trump term would be, and to make sure they have the information and tools to get out the vote. How scary is the concept of a Second Trump Administration in these communities especially. Every time he opens his mouth, its a nightmare that comes out of it. A person trying to make his way from the courthouse back to the white house yet again to torment our lives, communities and families. If i look at the shortterm, with him putting in three Supreme Court justices and not only overturned roe v. Wade but said out loud, they would come frr windsor, lawrence, Supreme Court cases that fundamentally establish rights for my community in this country. This is something we cant take lightly. When i think about the contrast and choice before us is clear. Its not just about two candidates. Its about two fundamentally different versions of our country that we could be looking at after november. Is part of the campaign fearing what youre describing here, almost to show what he has already done, what is already literally happened, not figuratively. He has done damage to womens rights. Young women do not have the rights i grew up with because of donald trump. How will you articulate that when you go after these voters for equality . Equality voters, as you call them. Its exactly what you said, we dont have to wonder about what a second president ial term for donald trump would look like. He has already shown us and continues to tell us. Your last clip showed that. Clearly, not only that, project 2025 says out loud they are coming after marriage equality. Hes really seeking to roll back the rights we have gained not only the last 20 or 40 years but the last 100. This campaign is about reminding voters about that reality. Overwhelming people of color, skew heavily to be women, allies and the lgbtq and younger. The young generation n 2020 they were just coming of age politically. Right. We have to remind them of what that chaos was and their power to change the future. Youre looking at swing states, pennsylvania, arizona, wisconsin, michigan and nevada and georgia. How will you implement this 15 Million Campaign . Ads . Field operations . All of it. Knocking on doors. Well be putting out paid ads to understand the reality of whats at stake and turning these folks out. At the end of the day, this election the presidency will come down to tens of thousands of voters in a handful of states. I look at equality voters, 1. 4 million identified. That race was determined by 20,000 voters in 2020. Same thing if you look at wisconsin. We have 1 million equality voters there. It was a difference of about 20,000 voters that made the difference in 2020 to get President Biden into office. So this matters. Yeah. Keep us posted. Kelly robinson, thank you so much for coming on this morning. We appreciate it. Up next, the very latest from Donald Trumps criminal hushmoney trial. Well get a live report from the manhattan courthouse and bring in our legal experts. Plus, well show you the latest republican who just wont commit to accepting the results of the 2024 election. No matter who wins. Keep it right here on morning joe. Smile you found it. The feeling of Finding Psoriasis cant filter out the real you. So go ahead, live unfiltered with the one and only sotyktu, a oncedaily pill for moderate to Severe Plaque Psoriasis, and the chance at clear or almost clear skin. Its like the feeling of finding youre so ready for your closeup. Or finding you dont have to hide your skin just your background. Oncedaily sotyktu was proven better, getting more people clearer skin than the leading pill. Dont take if youre allergic to sotyktu; serious reactions can occur. Sotyktu can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. Serious infections, cancers including lymphoma, muscle problems, and changes in certain labs have occurred. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, liver or kidney problems, high triglycerides, or had a vaccine or plan to. Sotyktu is a tyk2 inhibitor. Tyk2 is part of the jak family. Its not known if sotyktu has the same risks as jak inhibitors. Find what Plaque Psoriasis has been hiding. Theres only one sotyktu, so ask for it by name. So clearly you. Sotyktu. Welcome back to morning joe. We want to go right to the courthouse in lower manhattan. Nbc news correspondent Vaughn Hillyard is there. And vaughn, i take it there have been some changes in the schedule that might indicate some new dimensions that could take place the next day or two. Tell us what you know. Reporter right, mika. This is quite the development for Monday Morning here. There was a question of whether ultimately we could get a verdict as early as this thursday, before memorial day weekend. We expect crossexamination to continue of Michael Cohen. The redirect we expect that to take another hour. That will would take us to around the lunch break here today. Then the defenses opportunity to call their own witnesses forward. They have one individual who they have suggested they may bring forward. They have not ruled out bringing donald trump to the stand, though. But this is where the Big Development just in the last moments inside the courtroom all. After all the witnesses have been called, summations or Closing Arguments. That could have started as early as tomorrow. But judge merchan inside of this courtroom announcing that summations, Closing Arguments in the Donald Trumps first criminal trial, will not begin until after memorial day, next tuesday, saying that he was concerned that Closing Arguments and then the deliberation process for the jury to determine whether donald trump is guilty or not, that there could be with that fourday weekend in hand. There is no court friday. Theres no court saturday. No court sunday. Memorial day is monday. So theres concern of having such a long break between Closing Arguments and jury instructions and the jury charge to the point of the actual deliberation of the jury. So, Donald Trumps criminal trial will not be ending this week. It will extend into next week. Okay. And weve got his morning talk going on there. Lets bring in our legal experts to talk more about this as vaughn brings us the reporting from the courthouse. Nbc news legal analyst and former federal prosecutor andrew weissmann. Msnbc legal analyst danny se value louse and joyce vance with us. Peter baker and White House Correspondent for politico, coauthor of the play book Eugene Daniels and jonathan lemire. Lets go right in line. Any indication what these changes could mean as well just upon hearing them . Well, i think it is very much at face value that judge merchan last week said he did not want a significant break between the summations of the parties and the actual deliberations. And so by putting this off to start on tuesday, next week, not tomorrow, he avoids that situation because this week theyre not sitting on wednesdays, which is typical. They normally dont sit on wednesdays. And they werent sitting on fridays. It was going to be a significant issue from the judges perspective. Also, we do have, as vaughn said, this potential issue of mr. Costello testifying, thats sort of been floated other the weekend as a possible defense witness. Its quite curious. Im sure joyce has a lot to say about that because mr. Costello has already been the subject of a lot of evidence put in by the state of emails and texts with mr. Cohen is that really suggested that he was acting on behalf of the former president to try and keep Michael Cohen in the fold to prevent him from cooperating. So it would be very interesting to see if he testifies because, i mean, perhaps the defense would get something. But i suspect the prosecution is more than ready to crossexamine him. Remains to be seen whether that happens later today. All right. Well get to joyces opinion in just a moment. But right down the line, danny se value louse, might we see trump on the stand . Doubt it. Mika, ive been taking the underdog bet really for no other reason if he ended up testifying, i would have been the lone voice to say he was likely to testify. Hes not likely to testify. That was just brazen self promotion on my part. Hes very unlikely to testify. But what i find what Defense Attorneys will tell you in these white collar type cases, you often have defendants who think, gosh, if i can just get in front of the jury, ill explain everything. This is just a big misunderstanding. And as the trial goes on, they start seeing what its really like to be in the crucible of crossexamination. And i think it really, truly is a lastminute decision for many defense teams and many defendants who are watching this go on and realizing that if they take the stand, theyre creating a lot of risk. But ill say this, mika, two things. Number one, i wish more defendants would testify. More and more im starting to think that sometimes defendants can testify and they wont because the second thing i want to say is we Defense Attorneys are risk averse. Were terrified of being that courthouse tale of the case they had it won and then the dopey guy called his client to the stand and just destroyed his own case. None of us want to be a cautionary tale. And for that reason, very rarely do we call our clients to the stand. But, ive often wondered if that might be at this point more myth. That maybe some defendants could help themselves by testifying. I just im not so sure that trump is that defendant. And im not about to start calling my clients to the stand just because i would like to see what happens. Right. No. No, that probably is not a cool move. So joyce vance, i guess theres a side bar happening right now and theyre discussing with the judge certain emails and evidence that the defense wants to use in its cross of cohen, which is going to happen today. Thats the plan today. This judge seemed to really be moving this along, at a tight clip, fair to say . And what are your thoughts on the changing dynamics of the situation . Right. So i think this new schedule, mika, represents practical reality. No judge and judge merchan said he did not want to, wants to permit this big break in time between when the lawyers make their Closing Arguments and when the jury deliberates. Theres just all sorts of potential problem. We know how memory fades in that situation. Theres an increased risk of outside influence on jurors. So this is a smart move designed to get the case past the Holiday Weekend and then it can finish up. Uhhuh. So Vaughn Hillyard, a bit of a change of plans here. Give us a quick sense of what youre hearing from our reporters inside the courtroom as to how the first minutes of todays testimony have started . And any other sort of observations or insights youre gleaning as to how the week may unfold. Reporter right. They were actually asked to come into court early today, donald trump, the defense team, as well as the prosecution. The jury is not yet seated here. We have not begun Michael Cohens fourth day of testimony. Right now theres some deliberation over other emails that can be brought in before the jury into the record. Theres also current deliberation over the most likely defense witness there, who was the former fec commissioner brad smith, who was a commissioner during the bush presidency. The defense suggested they like to bring him to the stand. But, where the defense would like to use him is to tell the jury what Campaign Finance laws to have him interpret the Campaign Finance laws for this jury, which the prosecution has fought back on that it is only the judge who is the one to determine whether in instructions of this jury here, whats part of the law that they are to be looking at, as it pertains to the actual charges against donald trump. So there is some discrepancy over exactly how this witness the former fec commissioner, what he could actually testify to as an expert witness. Theres been some back and forth over these expert witnesses. The defense team wants to be able to ask them to lay this out a little more clearly for the jury. So thats kind of where we stand right now before we wait for Michael Cohen to come back into the courtroom. Interesting. If you could stand by and come back to us as things develop there because things are moving around quickly there, vaughn. Peter baker, if we could talk a little bit about the politics. Seeing trump in court and watching these campaigns playing out, weve had some experience now. We have even seen some polls where some trump voters say if he loses this, it might impact their vote. We have seen some, some impact on the campaign. Having said that, we have no idea, zero, how this is going he could completely walk out of there a free man or he could be convicted. We just dont know. Yeah. But so far, how does this appear to be this Court Proceeding impacting his campaign, his ability to campaign, his delivery, his mood, everything . Its effectively the mechanics of it. Hes not on the campaign trail. Not able to make phone calls. Not able to talk to donors and so forth. It hasnt seemingly affected the support. It seems like a lot of americans already factored this in. They assumed hes done many of the things hes accused of and they decided they care or dont care. But i think the verdict is the one x factor here, politically speaking. If theres a guilty verdict, there does seem to be at least a small section of republicans who say, okay, i like donald trump. Thats too much. A felon in the white house is one step too far. You only need a small number of votes to change the handful of states to be meaningful. That doesnt necessarily mean that would happen. It didnt happen with the indictments. Its possible the conviction would make a difference. So you make a good point. It hasnt impacted his support. Eugene, it hasnt like hes been using it to rally support. I dont see that i dont think people are just coming for him now because, youre right, hes being victimized by the Biden Justice department. I dont see that, do you . No, no. I think the cake is baked a lot, like youre saying, with the base of the party. Right. But also republicans writ large. Anyone who may have voted for donald trump in either the last two elections probably already thinks that either he did Something Like this or they dont like that he seems like someone who would do Something Like this. Its not just the base thats solidifying. Youre seeing leaders of the party doing that. We have been seeing kind of like the corridor being full of people wearing the trump uniform of the blue suit and red tie. And thats happened over and over and over again. Do we know who he has with him today . I havent seen it today. But theres always someone whats been interesting is its people who are trying out for vp. Its leaders like Speaker Mike Johnson but also others who just want to be a leadership in the republican conference in general. Right, right. Joe . You know, jonathan, its interesting. Again, were focussed on these trials. I say we. Im talking about the media, the political class. Not so sure voters are. We talk about this being baked into the cake. But i remember so many times in congress when we would be yelling on the floor and waving our arms in the air and our hair even during impeachment of bill clinton back when impeachment was actually a thing. And i just, i remember just thinking, you know, it was around christmas time. You know, most people are a lot more focussed on christmas than what were waving our arms about wildly on both sides here. And i have just gotten the sense that thats the case with these trump trials. You could look at the two impeachments. You could also look at the headlines in milwaukee, the headlines in detroit. The headlines in philadelphia. This isnt a day by day by day story thats picking up traction there at all. I wont say at all, but certainly not picking up a great deal of traction. So, i think i think eugene is right. I think its baked in right now. And maybe with some of those undecides, maybe a guilty verdict in this case makes a big difference, but its not like anybody is going to be shocked. I think Everybody Knows what happened here. I dont think the two sides are really disputing that much. I remember months ago the biden brain trust basically saying they did not think any of these trials would be a game changer. Even the more, quote, serious ones. And now it seems like none of them will happen before the election any way. Their sense is that maybe at most a conviction, like just seeing the idea of a nominee for president being convicted felon might move things along the margin. In a race this tight, maybe that would matter. But its never been perceived as something as a huge deal. And it certainly seems to be res nating at least so far much more in the asell la corridor than elsewhere. Peter baker, first of all, we do have the list of trump attendees today. It is handful of lawmakers, the likes of kash patel, who potentially a secondterm cabinet member, bernie kerik, disgraced former nypd commissioner and Alan Dershowitz fall from grace on the continues. It was good writing this week in the new York Magazine about how trump has made 100 Center Street his new campaign headquarters. His staff set up shop in a conference room. Theyre making calls from there. They were always near the boss and try to create at that as a nexus here because theyre stuck because he cant be on the road nearly as much as he wanted. How do you think thats playing out . Because there are as joe and i talk about a lot, the blocking attack of a campaign. The biden team is doing that well. Raising money, opening offices. Maybe the polls arent totally reflective of it yet. They feel good about the ground game. Trump hasnt been able to build that or hasnt been able to be on the ground. Trump plays a different kind of politics. He hasnt been about the ground game. The politics of reality show america. And its not about opening offices in dubuque. Its not about, you know, door knocking in madison, wisconsin. Its about this sort of showmanship that he is performing everyday at the courthouse. In fact, this hasnt hurt him in that regard because he still gets his message out. His face is on tv, his words are on tv. His message he wants to get out through his social media blasts are all out there. Youre right. A normal candidate, this might be more of a hindrance because they run more conventionally. He doesnt play that game. Even on the days he could be out on the road, hes not always choosing to do so, right . Tired. Not on court on wednesday. He could be out doing a rally, out talking to donors. But its a lot to go to court everyday. It is exhausting, as we have seen. Cant imagine. Theres saturday and sunday he could do things. Friday after his sons graduation. So theres all these times theyre choosing not to go out and talk. For sure. Joe . Yeah. I think most of us if we were in court, for two days, we would spend the next five days under the cover recovering. So, it is certainly understandable that he doesnt fly out and do a million different things, though, he is staying active. On that point, peter baker, you know, i know you remember illinois senator paul simon. And when he retired, he said something that struck me that i think is one of one of the great insights on american politics. And he said, what did you learn over all these years . In politics sometimes when you win you lose. And sometimes when you lose you end up winning in the end. So just basically saying you never know how things are going to turn out. So keep your head down. I think, you know, partisans on both sides, you know, biden partisans, saying we want him in court. We want him tried. We want him convicted. You know, trump partisans saying, witch hunt. Witch hunt. He should never be in there. The irony is, if you talk to insiders of both campaigns, some of them will tell you in the biden camp, we dont want him in court controlled, hidden. We want him giving speeches everyday, giving us content everyday, saying crazy stuff everyday. And the people on this side in trump world know these trials are great. I bet they wish he could be in trial everyday between now and the election because he plays the victim and it confines him to what he can say, which is always been their biggest challenge. They know less trump is more for them. Yeah. Look, its the sign of how much our politics have gone topsy turvy that being on trial for a crime is considered to be a political plus or at least not a political negative, it used to be. This is something you didnt try to have happen during a campaign. You certainly wouldnt have gone if you were an ally of that person to associate yourself as these republicans are flocking to do in courthouse. The kind of thing you would kind of keep away from. People did not flock to bill clinton, at least early on any way when he was accused as you rightly point out. Theres an interesting parallel. You and i have been around to remember what he was accused of. Superficially similar. Breaking the law by committing perjury of justice to cover up a sexual indiscretion. In effect, thats what donald trump is accused of here. A lot of americans decided it doesnt matter much. Thats the political reality today. Some consistency 25 years to today in terms of the political reaction of these kinds of crime ls. Jonathan points out, were not going to hear the cases that people consider to be more serious, overturn an election and pilfering classified documents that you dont control. Right, right. Well, exactly. Mika, peter and i saw it very close, saw it up close. And saw bill clinton after all of it leave after the impeachment, after the scandal, after everything, leaving office with his highest Approval Rating ever in the 60s, not only did people not do not really care at the end of the day about this, they didnt care about it 25 years ago. Yeah. I mean, theres so many other cases that he has brewing that seems so much more serious. Exactly. Stealing nuclear secrets, stealing war plans, stealing all of this stuff. Elections. Riot. Trying to destroy it. Trying to overturn the election. The riots. Yeah, a lot more. I know. I know. Okay, andrew, danny, joyce vance, i have an observation and a question. Trump needs people to keep him going, to encourage him, to kind of speak for him and hes been bringing people to court with him. Unlike what weve seen in his previous president ial campaigns, you know, where you had ivanka, melania, don jr. , the kids, hes been sort of dragging politicians who need him and need his support in with him. And im just curious in terms of how it works, does the jury see these people . Are they seeing Alan Dershowitz in there today, the lawyers . And does that have an impact . And if it does, wouldnt the family make much more of a difference . Andrew first. That is a great question. That exact issue, mika, came up last at the end of last week where the prosecutors had a side bar with the judge, raised that issue, of politicians parading in and out in a way that would be very visible to the jury and asking the judge to prevent that, saying, look, they like everyone else should take their seats and not be sort of a prop for the defense. And he agreed. But they still are people who the jury can see. And my experience with jurors is theres a lot of down time. So they look around the courtroom and they do see things. So your point about Family Members, you know, that is something they would look to. It obviously shouldnt affect their deliberations. But people are human and it can. So, you know, i wouldnt expect that it would have any material effect, but, you know, if i were the defendant, i would want to be surrounded by my family, particularly given the allegations here. But i think that he is running more of a Political Campaign in that courtroom. And i think thats why youre seeing this parade of sort of mini mes who are auditioning for the vice presidency and wanting to show their feelty to the former president. Danny . Were operating on the assumption that is jurors know who a matt gaetz is. I know that sounds silly, but there may be people on that jury thats not high priority for them to recognize that face. So, theres that angle. But i do agree that having those people if im defense counsel, im not delighted that theres a side show going on behind me because its not the traditional support that i would want in there for my client. Which is Family Members. I really think that if melania had shown up for at least a few days and they had chatted at the bar of the court, just ever so briefly, to put on a little pageantry, subtle pageantry, which by the way dont think that thing is orchestrated in the courtroom by defense counsel or lawyers in general, it is. Because it works. Right. I think that kind of subtle message works. And it would demonstrate that melania is here. She doesnt belief these allegations, even though theyre about his indiscretions and stands by her man. That would be helpful to the defense. If im his defense team, i expect that tellall book would say, yeah, it was irritating to have these members of congress behind me because i knew they werent here to support the defendant. Theyre here for their own purposes that are outside of helping the defendant. When youre on trial the only thing you care about is doing something good for the client. Right, right. And joyce, chime in on this. I think its so interesting. I also wonder if it matters at all that these politicians are also taking part in the Press Conferences after. It just seems so unbecoming of the office that they hold. Well, it is in so many different ways, mika. You know, hopefully the jurors are not seeing any of those Press Conferences. Thats the sort of thing that the judge has told them to avoid exposure to. Right. But every time you have a situation like this, it amps up the possibility that the jury will be exposed to influences that they shouldnt consider. To andrews point, you know, jurors are human beings. They are curious people. They observe things going on in the courtroom. They even sometimes after the verdict is in and lawyers can talk to the jurors will ask questions about things like, why did you choose to wear the purple blouse on the second day of trial. I mean, its really interesting what strikes them. So, i think what they are likely focussed on here is absence, as opposed to presence. They will be focussed on the absence of melania, on the absence of ivanka who stood at her fathers side throughout his presidency. And although that wont be an explicit factor in their deliberations, at the margin, when theyre considering issues, trumps lawyers will argue that he did not have sex with Stormy Daniels, at least that was the promise in opening statement. Well, that argument would hit a lot more soundly if melania had been in the courtroom or if ivanka had been there. Yeah. And of course, in terms of what hes the crime hes accused of committing, were just seeing right now the judge is discussing i guess the defense applied for testimony from a supposed expert on Campaign Finance. So maybe they want to bring someone in to try and prove that he didnt break any laws. Joyce vance, andrew weissmann, danny, well check back in with you in a few moments as these developments are coming in right now. Joe . Hey, mika, can i just go back to andrew really quickly. Sure. I want to underline for people who are watching, i think its important, andrew, to let them know whether Family Members are in the courtroom or not should not have an impact on a verdict. And you all are seasoned litigators and you understand that and nobody is suggesting that Family Members have to be in the courtroom at all. It is extraordinarily personal and not only for this family but for all families. But its just kind of like when were talking about a Political Campaign, you know, a tie that somebody wears at a debate or george h. W. Bush looking at his watch the middle of the debate, supposedly blows up the debate for him. So i just want to underline that. Its been mentioned once before, but we talked about that here. I want you to just talk about again, were talking about sort of the pageantry, so to speak, of it, not the law. Absolutely. So the law is they have to base their verdict on the evidence in court. Who is in the background, whether theyre viewed as supporters or detractors, whether on the defense side or the prosecution side is legally irrelevant and, you know what, i think most jurors, you know, 99 of the time do the right thing and take as a group they sort of raise themselves up and really try to do the right thing and take their roles very seriously. But they are human and they will notice sort of whats going on in body language. As joyce said, even what people are wearing because they cant talk about the case until its over, theyre told. They cant start deliberating until the end. One of the things they might talk about when theyre waiting around is not just, you know, the mets and the yankees but also, you know what people are wearing and who is in the background. So it can come up. And it is a sort of subtle message that they may sort of unconsciously be thinking about. And you know, who knows whether it can or cannot have an affect. But as danny pointed out, very often Family Members are there to show their support. And i would think if youre hoping that is what theyre doing, youre going to be thinking that a Family Member is going to be a lot more influential than some sitting senator from illinois who a manhattan juror may be not particularly impressed with or even know. All right. Up next, cnbcs dom chu joins us for business before the bell as the dow looks to build on fridays record close. Well also talk to peter baker about the major developments out of iran overnight. Morning joe will be right back. Ght back new centrum menopause supplements help unpause life when symptoms pause it. With a multivitamin plus hot flash support. daily zz for quality sleep. and enxtra for focus and clarity. Centrum, powered by clinically studied ingredients. If youre living with moderate to Severe Plaque Psoriasis or active psoriatic arthritis, symptoms can sometimes take you out of the moment. Now theres skyrizi, so you can show up with clearer skin. And show it off. Nothing is everything with skyrizi, you could take each step with 90 clearer skin. And if you have psoriatic arthritis, skyrizi can help you get moving with less joint pain, stiffness, swelling, and fatigue. And skyrizi is just 4 doses a year, after 2 starter doses. Serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. 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So, you have turned your back on starbucks coffee. I have. After a quarter century. I have. Literally. The void has been filled. Rudy heard. Rudy responded. No. Rudy has coffee for you, yes. Yes. No, i will well, that was just that was there was that was horrible. That was the worst commercial ive ever seen. Is it 1972 . Americas mayor. Americas mayor. A former New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani finding a new way to make some cash. Amid declaring bankruptcy. Of course he says your helping america. You can get the coffee, which comes in three roasts. Yes. Americas mayor and enjoying life. This is what America Needs right now. And fighting for justice. What america has been asking for. Coffee from Rudy Giuliani. Guess what a bag will cost you . Now, by the way a bag will cost ya if you have a sip of it 30. And you taste you taste something thats a bit pungent, it is jonathan lemire, it is actually rudys and this is why its so personal to him. Its rudys sweat mixed in, wee bit of hair dye, going into the coffee. Its all its that secret, secret ingredient that puts it over the top. Just for men, thats the ingredient . And rudys sweat. This is deeply, deeply embarrassing. This is someone for who a time was known as americas mayor. This is someone who was for a handful of weeks legitimate american hero. And it will be difficult to find too many people, too many characters in our nations history who have fallen further faster than Rudy Giuliani who attached his star to donald trump, mika, and has taken one disgrace after another since to the point, as youre about to explain, exactly how he celebrated his birthday this year. Okay. Were going to get to that. But the hair dye and the sweat in the coffee, that makes it taste like starbucks. So, maybe hes on to something. Oh, come on it does. Its got a bad taste to it. Stop it i my habit was like 15, 16, 17 years of drinking it everyday. I stayed with it for a year, joe. And i kept saying, this doesnt taste right. Maybe its florida. Let me just say, rudy has some habits. And hes hoping the coffee pays for him. This all comes as jewel januariny learn and important lesson about social media on friday. That lesson is dont taunt arizonas attorney general chris maze or she will literally come for you. She announced giuliani had been indicted in the arizona false electors case late last month, however, as of friday night, she had not served him with the papers. Giuliani decided to brag about that on social media, writing, quote, if arizona authorities cant find me by tomorrow morning, one, they must dismiss the indictment and, two, they must concede they cant count votes. Giuliani added a photo to the post of his birthday party. Look at the happy. Politico reports that the post, along with the others, gave her office enough information to determine where giuliani was, as the festivities were wrapping up, agents from the Arizona Attorney generals office, served him with the indictment papers outside of the house. Afterwards, the arizona ag posted on social media, quote, the final defendant was served moments ago. And addressed giuliani directly, writing, nobody is above the law. And in all seriousness, peter baker, that is a clear message to Rudy Giuliani. Yeah, no, it is. He has quite a lot of legal troubles already which is what this coffee thing is all about. Hes in financial trouble, legal trouble and you can only count so many places he has been disbarred and now been indicted and facing charges in georgia, ere where. All for trump, by the way. All for trump. Jonathan, not just as one time mayor of new york as a hero, he was for a short time a frontrunner for president of the United States. Right. He was thought of as a potential republican nominee himself. He wanted to be Secretary Of State under President Trump. And now this is where we are. The decline is Something Else. U. S. Stocks are little changed at the opening bell after the dow closed above 40,000 points for the the first time last week. Joining us now with more on that and other business before the bell news headlines, cnbcs dominic chu. Dom, what you got . Mika worries about the markets and the economy, they are drying up, at least thats one of the signals coming out of a market that as you point out reached record highs just this past week. That dow 40,000 level hit for the first time ever. So this new trading week is kicking off with just some marginal losses. Were just a stones throw away from the record highs from thursday and friday last week. There is increasing optimism that the u. S. Economy will avoid a recession, even with less likelihood for massive and more frequent Interest Rate cuts than were expected just maybe five to six months ago. A lot of the driving force behind the Market Action this week is going to come from reads on the economic backdrop. You have sales of previously owned homes on the docket. Also orders for longerlasting or durable goods as theyre called and weekly jobless claims will be front of mind. Were also getting Meeting Minutes from the federal reserves most recent rate policy setting meeting. We know rates were unchanged, but well get more insight into what the conversation was like by policymakers in deciding to hold rates steady and maybe where the fed goes from here. Meanwhile, about the markets economy concerns, they have largely gone away. The debate about debt and deficits is still on going. The u. S. National debt swelled to around 34. 5 trillion, 50 higher than it was back in march of 2020, before the covid pandemic was really in the early stages of wreaking havoc on our economy. Those debt and deficits have been part and parcel to washington con voes for as long as anyone can remember, but now its spilling over into wall street. A slew of investors and ceos expressing more and more concern including most recently jamie dimon, America Needs to focus on deficits because it will become problematic at some point and hedge fund titan, told the financial times, hes worried that higher and higher u. S. Debt levels will make our sovereign debt less attractive to foreign investors. But if you are looking for some good news for the consumer front, which is good for the u. S. Economy because we are driven by consumer spending, big box retailer target is lowering prices on roughly 5,000 items as a way to get more shoppers to use their stores. A host of these frequently purchased items ranging from milk, bread and meat to diapers, paper towels and pet foods, all will get lowered. Those lower prices will roll out over the course of the summer. Items will be tagged as being discounted, kind of like what walmart did with their rollback promotions. Looking for better deals, target is trying to get you guys to go into their stores. Yeah, dom, i first got on the debt, i first got into politics because of deficits, because of the debt. And at the time, it was 4 trillion. I thought, 4 trillion, almost 300 billion deficit, i felt that was outrageous. By the time bill clinton left, it was 5. 7. By the time george w. Bush left it was over 11 trillion. By the time president obama left it was around 19 trillion. And donald trump, in 40 years, raised the debt more than anybody else did in the eight. And here we are. It just keeps going up and up. Definitely something we need to focus on. I want to focus, though, you on something you know an extraordinary amount about also, and that is golf. I am told that youre abavid golfer. Ive even heard the rumor a scratch golfer. And if thats anywhere close to being true, i would love your take on the absolute drama from friday morning to early sunday evening. What a weekend for golf. Joe, first of all, let me just say right off the bat that the stories about my golfing ability have been overexaggerated just a bit. I am a very good golfer, but im not scratch. Secondly, i will get into just how much this weekend was amazing. I mean, if anybody had a chance to watch it at all, it was probably one of the most dramatic final rounds of a major Golf Championship in years. You basically had five or six different guys all in the top, you know, maybe 20, 25 in the world all within two or three shots of the lead going into the back nine on a championship sunday. And it was just so dramafilled. Xander schauffele was the guy at the end, who as youre seeing right now, made a big putt on the last hole for birdie to get his firstever major championship. Now, that 2024 Pga Championship, again, a 30yearold from san diego, hes been a frequent visitor by the way to leader boards all across major tournaments for years now. But this breakthrough at Valhalla Golf Club outside louisville, kentucky, the big deal was he fended off a massive challenge from Liv Golf League standout, Bryson Dechambeau and norways Viktor Hovland who is no slouch himself. Xander set records for scoring in a major championship during this wire to wire victory. I would just say, i watched part of this with a bunch of my golf buddies yesterday afternoon. And everybody was riveted by just how things went down in that back nine. It was a lot of fun to watch, guys. It will say that, as an avid golfer and sports fan. Just absolutely incredible. Cnbcs dom chu, thank you so much. Mika, what a tournament for louisville to have as their final Golf Tournament ever after what happened on friday morning. By the way crazy. The body cam footage, no body cam footage because the officer didnt have his body cam on. And secondly, if you look at the Police Report, the Police Report wrote that theres a felony and they wrote that that actually after the incident that it was so traumatic that the officers trousers were torn beyond repair. I will also bring up a point that while there was no body cam footage, there sure as hell were a lot of eyewitnesses all on a bus, all reporters, who saw absolutely nothing untoward happen here. So, again, i suspect its going to be a very long time before louisville has a major Golf Tournament again. Its just wow. Number one golfer in the world, yeah. Yeah. A lot of drama going on there. That seemed like a really bad way to start the day. Lets just put it that way. We dont know everything. So well let that play out. But, my gosh. Still ahead on by the way, we dont know anything because theres no body cam footage. Right, i got that. Conveniently for the louisville police. That is very clear. But seems unfortunate, yeah. Unfortunate, yes. Still ahead, were going to get another live report from outside the manhattan courthouse where Donald Trumps criminal Hush Money Trial is now under way with Michael Cohen back on the stand. Morning joe will be right back. An alternative to pills, voltaren is a clinically proven arthritis pain relief gel, which penetrates deep to target the source of pain with nonsteroidal antiinflammatory medicine directly at the source. Voltaren, the joy of movement. Hi, im eileen. I live in vancouver, washington and i write mystery novels. As i was writing, i found that i just wasnt sharp and that doesnt work when youre writing a mystery and i knew i needed to do something so i started taking prevagen. I realized that i was much more clear, much sharper. I was remembering the details that i was supposed to. Prevagen keeps my brain working right. Prevagen. At stores everywhere without a prescription. [sfx] water lapping. [sfx] water splashing. [sfx] ambient laughing. Will you accept the Election Results of 2024, no matter what happens, senator . No matter what happens . No, thats an unfair election no matter who wins. Senator, no matter who wins. I think youre asking the wrong person. The democrats are the ones that have opposed every republican victory since 2000. Every single one. Its Hillary Clinton no democrat refused to concede. Senator, will you accept the Election Results . Hillary clinton said the election was stolen from her and Kamala Harris agreed. We have democrats she conceded the election. Senator, she conceded the election. And attended the inauguration. She said that joe no. She said that trump was illegitimate, that the election has been stolen. Kamala harris agreed. By the way, there are democrats serving in Congress Today who in 2004 voted not to certify the ohio electors because they said those machines had been tampered with and democrats say thag wont certify 2024 because trump san insurrectionist and ineligible to hold office. You need to ask them. Have you ever asked a democrat that question on your show. Oh my god. You know, its the decline so early in his political career. Just like rudy, that is so tragic. That was just part of the exchange. Pathetic. Meet the press moderator, kristen welker, marco u rubio. Theres no guarantee they will accept the results of the 2024 election. Jonathan lemire, but wait. Theres more. As he talked about mass incarceration of immigrants. What more do we need to talk about with these republicans who seem to do anything to debase themselves for donald trump. Yeah. Senator rubio is one of the prime examples of someone who did briefly stand up to him during the 2016 campaign and threw that all away in order to keep his own office and keep his proximity to power. So we just heard it there. Rubio, who mentioned sort of outsider, trump vp candidate, although that would be complicated because theyre both from florida and mess up the electoral college. But he first of all, joins tim scott and others as the latest potential running mate to say to not just say hell accept the election. He made bad faith argument after bad faith argument. Peter baker, there about democrats claiming they didnt honor Election Results and despite being a rather vocal opponent previously, now says he supports what looks to be Donald Trumps immigration plan which includes mass incarcerations and mass deportations like weve never seen before were trump to win again. It is just another moment of rank hypocrisy. Well, look, he was a senator, of course, for a time was seen as the future of the party. He was somebody who did, in fact, at times Work Across Party Lines back in the obama era. He was part of a group of senators that was looking for a bipartisan solution to the immigration problem. People on the left and the right thought he was a serious figure. And obviously, at this point, the main motive seems to be currying favor with donald trump and possibly getting on his Vice President ial list. No question about it. Theres obviously not ekwif lens. Yes, have democrats complained about elections they lost, yes, they have. Did they try to block certification of it, Vice President like that, no. I talked to al gore. Al gore certified his own election defeat as Vice President. Didnt occur to him to think that he could, in fact, use his power toover turn floridas vote. Senator rubios home state, decided by only 537 votes. A whole lot closer than any of the votes in 2020 that donald trump tried to have overturned. So, its not an equivalent, obviously. But theyre trying to play to President Trump, former President Trumps, you know, fixation on the idea that he somehow didnt lose the 2020 election when, of course, he did. What makes this even more surreal, theyre doing this for a man who is accused of multiple crimes, has 87 counts against him, and right now is in court for a crime. Lets go back to nbc news correspondent Vaughn Hillyard outside the courthouse in lower manhattan. Vaughn, whats the latest . Has Michael Cohen taken to the stand yet . Reporter right, mika. He is actually back on the stand in just the last few minutes. He is continuing to face questions from todd blanche, Donald Trumps defense attorney here on what is now his fourth day of testimony. We were given tindcation from blanche and the defense team that they expect to only have about an hour of questions. So, we could very well by the 11 00 a. M. Eastern hour be done with Michael Cohen facing crossexamination. At that point redirect will take place. The prosecution can follow up with some specific questions for cohen again. Theyre currently going back and forth over the october, 2016, time line for Michael Cohen and the extent to where his focus was at that time. And the defense team is getting him to acknowledge that he was concerned about part of his taxi medallion company and also concerned about an extortion case related to Tiffany Trump and suggesting that he had many focus points and it was not just the stormy trump and it was not just the daniels payment that led him to have different phone calls and conversations with donald trump. The big news, mika, is that Closing Arguments will not begin tomorrow as they initially were coming into this week we thought they may. Instead, judge merchan indicating the Closing Argument summations will not begin until next tuesday following a fourday memorial day weekend. Though this afternoon we could well see the defense team begin to call their witnesses. The outstanding question is whether the defendant, donnell j. Trump, will testify in his own case. If he does, he could take the stand as early as this afternoon, mika. Hey, vaughn. Youre very versatile so i know you can do this through your home state of arizona, i saw some crazy poll that had rube again gallego up by 13 points and joe biden down by five points. Unless youre Susan Collins in may, theres not an 18point swing. Again, arizona may go down to the wire as far as the president ial race goes. I am curious, though, because we dont see it day in and day out. How is that senate race going . And is kari lake, she had outreach to Meghan Mccain earlier that didnt seem to go so well. Shes trying to be a more moderate force on the issue of abortion based on i mean obviously different than what shes said in the past. Im curious, is she starting to make any sort of inroads with those republicans that she said earlier she wanted out of the party. Are you seeing independents moving her way at all . Whats the latest . Reporter joe, not anecdotally, i have not met a single republican who did not vote for her in 2022 or a conservative independent who didnt vote for her in 2022 who tells me theyre going to vote for her for the u. S. Senate. Theres a longtime former party chair of carry lakes home legislative district who was one of those republicans who kari lake all but banished from her wing of the Republican Party back in 2022, and she used to be a close ally of john mccain. Carry lake this winter welcomed her to coffee. She did go meet with carry lake. This former legislative chair, she told me she was so struck by carry lakes inability to apologize for a single statement she made about her or anybody like john mccain. She said she couldnt even say their names. She said she in no way sees her voting for kari lake this november. I asked, can you name one of the republicans who are reticent towards kari lake that has now come to her side. They wouldnt give a name. The one other, when mentioning the polling differentiation. We have seen this before. Doug ducey won his race by 14 points at the same time that Kyrsten Sinema won her race by two points here. There are Republican Voters willing to go from one candidate over to the other. I dont know if its quite this spread between donald trump and kari lake though. Vaughn, thanks. Were going to sneak in one more break as we continue to follow whats going on inside the court. Well bring you the latest on the deadly Helicopter Crash in iran which killed the countrys president and Foreign Minister. Well be right back. Well be right back. [coughing] copd isnt pretty. Im out of breath, and often out of the picture. But this is my story. and with oncedaily trelegy, it can still be beautiful. Because with 3 medicines in 1 inhaler, trelegy keeps my airways open for a full 24 hours and prevents future flareups. Trelegy also improves lung function, so i can breathe more freely all day and night. Trelegy wont replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. Tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high Blood Pressure before taking it. Do not take trelegy more than prescribed. Trelegy may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. Call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain occur. What a Wonderful World [laughing] ask your doctor about oncedaily trelegy for copd because breathing should be beautiful, all day and night. Craig here pays too much for verizon wireless. So he sublet half his real estate office. Because breathing should be beautiful, [ bird squawks loudly ] to a pet shop. Megs moving company uses tmobile. So she scaled down her fleet to save money. And dons paying so much for at t, hes been waiting to update his equipment theres a smarter way to save. Comcast business mobile. You could save up to 70 on your wireless bill. So you dont have to compromise. Powering smarter savings. Powering possibilities. In our final moments we want to talk about the Breaking News overnight, the Helicopter Crash that killed the president of iran and also the countrys Foreign Minister and several other people. Peter baker, what are the implications . President raisi, of course, is not the most important person in iran. Thats the Supreme Leader, khomeini. Khomeini, the Supreme Leader is 85 years old. Right now this takes off a favor of the hardliners to succeed him and may mean his son has an upper leg to secede him in the Supreme Leader position. Were watching for white house reaction on this. What else are we expecting from President Biden on the xal on the heels of his appearance at Morehouse College. Theres a jewish event today. People are definitely watching, going hard core at the base of the Democratic Party which is black voters. You have morehouse, he was in detroit, atlanta on saturday, divine nine meeting on friday, over and over and over again. I think that aspect of it is something that a lot of black lawmakers are looking for. They want the campaign to feel urgent when it comes to black voters. Weve seen the polls. Shes softening support. I dont know if trump is going to win 23 of the black vote, but theres definitely a softening of support and black leaders are waiting for them to take this on. Jonathan lemire, what are you watching for today . How the city of new york is coping with the New York Knicks falling yesterday in heartbreaking fashion. A team thats going to be thought of very fondly for a long time by the people here. The championship drought does continue. Wait until next year New York Knicks. All eyes are on the courthouse in lower manhattan. Donald trumps criminal Hush Money Trial is under way with Michael Cohen on the stand now. Stay tuned to msnbc all day for that. That does it for us this morning. Well see you next. Ana cabrera and jose diazbalart pick up the coverage right now. Good morning. It is 10 00 eastern. Im ana cabrera alongside my colleague j