At morning, and welcome to the Sunday Edition of Morning Joe Weekend. It was another fastmoving newsweek, and here are some of the conversations you might have missed. I have, for 6 months since people have been freaking out, i am telling you every time, talk to anybody whos running the campaign, the big part of the campaign. I dont know what they are telling you, what they are telling other people. They act ing like people are holding four aces. How about this . Thats pretty bad. Oh, yeah. Looks really tough. Yeah. Is as a criticism . No, im telling you. They know something that i think a lot of us dont know. They look at numbers, they see where things are going, they have a theory of the case, and when they realize donald trump is going to be getting into the race, they understand that you win politics by raising money. They understand Donald Trumps numbers are way down in every way, and fundraising, and they say, no, they are not. And as far as organization goes, we all know anybody who is been involved in a political campaign, if you are tearing up stakes in april and may, you are not going to put them back down in july and august. Donald trump is going to be pounded on the ground. The biden people feel great about it, and they have about 1000 clips of donald trump that every day, they are like which one are we going to use today . And it just makes him look horrible. The Biden Campaign, they are supremely confident. That it will be very close. They are confident that they know its going to be tight. They told me in the last week or so that this person was saying, i feel very good about where we are. Were going to win decisively. They like where they are. Therefore better organization, far more state offices, therefore more money on hand, and that advantage is probably only going to grow. They feel like once americans start paying attention, most are not just yet. Most think theres some skepticism about whether this is going to be the race. Im told yesterday thats part of why these debates are important and why they are happening so early. There just isnt an understanding now. The Debate Commission was when to have their debates made, late october. Many ballots have already been cast. I am still having intelligent people with advanced degrees telling me, who is the republican nominee really going to be . People still wonder. They think donald trump, he will be in prison. Whatever it might be, there are people that are still skeptical. Thats why a biden person was telling me last night, with the june debate is going to do, thats going to grab donald trump who has been turned into white noise the last couple of years. Heres the guy. Hes the nominee. Do we really want this again . I dont know if im suffering from campaign posts traumatic stress, but you know what im saying . Im not talking about, as James Carville would say, algorithms. No, no. Heres the theory of the case. There theory of the case of the Biden Campaign, and they are dead right, its going to be a close race. In close races, its the blocking, its the tackling that wins it for you. We saw this in 2004. We thought that 2004 with bush against kerry was going to be just like 2000. But you let kim melman, who is blocking and tackling from january on, just phone calls every day going around it. And that that adds up in close races. If you know its going to be a close race, that stuff adds up. Again, maybe they are wrong, but i will tell you, the difference between this campaign and 16 is there was arrogance of the 16 campaign. He made fun of donald trump. They said no way he wins. They went on Saturday Night Live and ridiculed donald trump is a republican nominee. This is the one good thing about these New York Times polls. It scares the crap out of all the supporters who are saying to fundraisers, please, may we give you more . And so i guess after the election is over, trump will probably say it was a conspiracy , overplaying how bad things were for biden to juice his fundraising, because thats working, too. Lets get caught up on the news that broke last friday. Things escalated pretty rapidly throughout yesterday afternoon with both candidates. And now they have accepted two invitations to debate. Once on cnn on june 27th, and again on abc news on september 10th. The rules will differ from past election cycles. The candidates agreed to bypass the commission on president ial debates, which had organized these faceoffs every four years since 1988. Biden also requested these guidelines, which trump grudgingly accepted, or at least we think he accepted it. You never know. That there be no audience in the room, that no thirdparty candidates be allowed to participate. That only a select group of news outlets can host, and that a Candidates Microphone be shut off if they go over their allotted speaking time. Im skeptical that trump will ever put himself in that position where hes not saved by a roaring crowd. Hill have one outside. Whatever. I think theres a lot of evidence to suggest that donald trump is not as good as his word, and that he wont necessarily make good on this. There is, though the thing that trump has been the kind of Core Paradigm for the trump campaigns Point Of View is, donald trump is strong, donald trump is weak. He is weak and flailing. They dont want that contrast, because donald trump is flailing. But thats not what they think. Thats not what they think. If you dont think that susie liles and chris and the smart people on his campaign dont understand how often this guy loses his train of thought, forgets who is fighting against im certain im sure he actually also brokered the campaign. So they know. I think they also have they have a more critical view of joe bidens errors and missteps in this area than you do. And we are just talking about not what the right Point Of View is, but are they going to let donald trump go in and debate . He would be, i think, a very tricky thing for donald trump, whose main Point Of View is, i am the tough guy, im rolling over the legal system right now. Joe biden is weak and failing, i am strong and tough. I am unstoppable. For him to say, i think he has painted himself into a corner, because i think trump does not necessarily believe that biden would ever stand up and say he would take these debates. Now hes kind of in a corner. Donald trump always likes to leave himself wiggle room. If you ask me with a gun to my head whether i think these debates are going to happen, theres nothing close to 100 . Id say a little more likely than not that donald trump will feel like he has no choice. What about his campaign . Hes going to go in there not with knowledge, not with experience on the world stage that is productive, but hes going to go in there with insults, with a firehose of falsehoods, personal stuff about joe biden, and hes going to come at him hard, and thats going to be the challenge. You laugh, but sometimes that throws people off. You never know. Im not laughing. Im smiling at the fact that when donald trump tries all of those things, that he does in front of his fat elvis 77 crowd with a roar and say please throw a sweaty scarf in my direction, its going to be met with dead silence. And everybody like the cameramen and camera women are going to be looking at each other like that behavior so shocking. It could be offputting. What about rfk jr. . As part of these agreements, hes not going to be included in these debates. His campaign put together some vociferous operation saying, we are factoring in the polls here. Some americans may agree with him, but the biden and trump campaigns have cut him out. He is not going to be part of these debates. Trump, we should also note, is calling for more jim just these two. Even got fox news to host a third, but biden says, no. It will be two president ials and one Vice President ial versus Kamala Harris and whoever trump pics as his running mate. But to johns point here, i do think theres a sense that the Biden Campaign also wants to box trump in. They know he was out ahead of this thing. The biden camp said, okay, we will debate you. Trump now cant be perceived as walking away from that. And if he did, it would be a perception of weakness. And you know, willie always says, i strongly recommend that our viewers watch a donald trump rally from the beginning to the end to understand how disconnected this man is from reality. And again, im just saying, 90 minutes in a deadly silent Studio Audience with nothing but laughter coming from cameramen and camera women and stagehands at the really stupid things that he says i just think its a huge mistake for him. Theres a few things working in joe bidens favor in that sense. One of them is that donald trump has really enjoyed going on the platform of his choosing to communicate to the public for the past three or four years. And that is going to be thats just going to end with this. The other thing is that, i think the more National Events you have were all eyes are in one place, the better for joe biden. So this is not going to be something that donald trump can introduce in his own way on his own platform. Americans are going to see the from a traditional Media Organization exactly what donald trump looks like and sounds like. Theres going to be one source for this information. I actually think thats going to work in joe bidens favor. The other element that im just depressed about is that the second debate is on my birth day. Were going to have a Birthday Party right here. September 10th. 25 years old. That is fantastic. Lets remember that despite trumps bravado at debates, joe biden got the better of him in 2020. He won those debates. With covid, at least in the first one. Were also seen from the republicans already setting expectations so low for biden that he just stands up there and put some sentences together and wins. By the way, they never learn. They never learn. These republicans never learn. They constantly underestimate joe biden, they constantly say hes an old man. As you know, if you are debating somebody, even if you are a lot better, you know, i hope im able to walk off of the stage and my hound dog will still talk to me afterwards because hes such a great debater. You constantly talk yourself down. These republicans keep saying, we just hope he gets to the state of the union. He so old and addled. And think about it. All you can do is you can judge somebody either toughest challenges. Joe biden, the democratic primary, he was, you know, back against the wall. He wins south carolina, he doilies destroys all the people politically that had been mocking him before that. You think about the first state of the union. Hes too old, hes in firm, he blew them out of the water. This last state of the union, not only was it prepared remarks, it was, you know, off thecuff remarks were he just mocked and ridiculed him and made them look like children. And yet and why should we be surprised . They still dont get it. They are still mocking him, which plays right into his hand. Yeah. To paraphrase george bush, its nice to go to the debate with soft expectations for your favorite. They basically made him out to be a guy that could barely put a sentence together. So hes going to win, and i think its his chance. I was reading Doris Goodwins new book about it, and in 1960, the whole idea was that kennedy needed to show people he was a grown up. The narrative around kennedy was he was a kid, too young, too unexperienced. Thats all kennedy had to do. Again, low expectations. And i think biden is in very much the same situation. He did win the last two debates. And this could still break down over a lot of these details. He placed the bidens strength. No set times. The Moderator Cuts off the microphone to give biden a chance to talk without him hovering over him. Still had on morning joe that was so gross. If trump agrees to this with everything going against him, it shows you it reveals how desperate they are for this debate. I more careful in my thoughts about this. Anything could happen. Morning joe will be right back. Nothing dims my light like a migraine. With nurtec odt, i found relief. The only Migraine Medication that helps treat and prevent, all in one. To those with migraine, i see you. For the acute treatment of migraine with or without aura and the preventive treatment of Episodic Migraine in adults. Dont take if allergic to nurtec odt. Allergic reactions can occur, even days after using. Most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. Its time we all shine. Talk to a Healthcare Provider about nurtec odt from pfizer. We know a thing or two about russian disinformation campaigns. Back in 2016, we had senator from warner say he is more worried about or an election into a hearing this time around even then in 2020. He thinks we are less to be prepared. What would the advice be to the Biden Campaign . How can they combat this . The hardest thing to combat in 2016 was nobody believed us. Even after there had been reporting on what russia was doing, they would go to the post and say, we think a lot of this is coming from russia. It was just so fantastic for everyone that they couldnt really it just, you know, they couldnt appreciate that that was really happening. And now people do know that. I think its a lot easier can i read this for you and then you continue . Its not just the washington post. The Gop Senate Intel report that was run by marco rubio, they wrote this in 2017. The reports starts, manafort activity to russian outreach as, quote, a great counterintelligence threat that made the campaign susceptible to Malign Russian influence. Marco rubios Committee Said russia presented a grave Counter Intelligence threat. I was marco rubio and the republicans. And yet people still want to write off beds on the Wall Street Journal editorial page talking about russia hoax. Marco rubio talked about russia presented with this discrimination let me say it again. Quote, a great counterintelligence threat. And 16, we had a good story in june of 16 to say where they thought a lot of this was coming from, and a course, on october 7th, 2016, we had the declaration from the Obama Administration that russia was behind the hacks. We later had an intelligence estimate that it was not just the russians behind this, trying to help donald trump win. I was driving the administration. But it was too fantastic for people to appreciate. And now weve had eight years of this, and it is i think at least even though it is more widespread, when you say you cant trust that, it can be from the russians, at least people understand now that that something theyve got to look out for, and i think you got to call out lies immediately and right away and point them out to people and we will have to be better judges. Thats a lot to ask for. People have to be aware of this. Which is actually factual. It actually happened. And it impacted the president ial election. And its not just russia now. Theres a tsunami of misinformation out there. Russia, china, various other countries, all aimed at our increasingly fragile democracy. So part of what you do for a living is teach. And part of what you teach is the history of this country, of race in this country, of the culture in this country today. This is a potential lethal threat to our country. Absolutely. In so many ways, people are kind of postfact in some ways. And in some ways, this is also, like tom said, that americas appetite for this drives it. Stop drinking milk shakes. Although some of us like milkshakes. What makes it successful is that it is actually tapping into a center of positions and beliefs that Many Americans hold, and then they are supporting it and amplifying. One of the questions we have to ask ourselves is, are they hacking and doing the kind of concrete work, why is it so effective . They dont have to anymore. All they have to do is get the information of the Chinese Communist partys app. Which, of course, is tiktok. The Chinese Communist party runs that out, they make sure that the algorithms are running away, it spreads disinformation into america. If you dont believe it, talk about the leaders. Talk about Human Suffering in hong kong. Talk about Human Rights Abuses in china. And see how much of a pickup that gets on tiktok. But if you spread this information about joe biden, russian disinformation oh, you got the russians and the communist chinese running roughshod across america, and everybody is against it except donald trump. Who now supports tiktok. For his own interest. That all makes sense to me, joe. And part of what im trying to wrap my mind around is the way and why it is effective. It is effective, of course, for all the reasons you just laid out, but it is also asked winning scant divisions. There is a kind of dispositional orientation to the misinformation that allows it to take roots, and i think, how do we address both ends of it . Thats what the russians and the chinese are doing, and what we are susceptible to, if that makes sense. There is so much stupidity out there that is peddled by people two great examples. Theres a guy used to be in Mumford And Sons who debated at the oxford union, debated nancy pelosi. He just talked about joe bidens severe dementia. And he said such severe dementia he can hardly operate. If they live. Its a complete and total lie. And yet, that is pushed and it is pushed by these third parties. I mean, and then you have other lies about how great russia is. Tucker carlson running around saying, oh, my god. Its a workers paradise. It seri