Transcripts For MSNBCW Alex 20240703 : comparemela.com

And an important one. All right, we have a lot to get to tonight, after another day of major testimony in Donald Trumps first Criminal Trial. Michael cohen, was back on the stand today, Facing Cross Examination from todd blanche. For anyone who is county, mr. Cohen has been on the stand for more than 14 hours with more to come on monday. And nearly all day today todd blanche tried to undermine mr. Cohens credibility as a witness. Blanche spent half the morning recalling different episodes when Michael Cohen lied publicly, lying to congress, lying in court, lying about whether or not he sought a party, if it essentially forcing one to admit that he has been untruthful. Blanche also tried to paint as something as a renegade, a man who spent the 2016 Election Cycle Casting out on his own, speaking to the press both publicly and privately, without Donald Trumps consent, or his supervision. Blanche tried to call into question Michael Cohens memory, his ability to recall key moments in this case. And that all built to what was probably the biggest moment of today, when the defense managed to cast doubt on a key part of commerce story. You have to go back to 2016 when donald trump was running an unusually Clean Campaign for president. And one of his unlikely Campaign Surrogates was his personal attorney, Michael Cohen. These are Donald Trumps words, hes going to stay true to who he is and he is going to end up in all fairness, hes going to end up winning this election. Hes a mentor, hes a sage, hes like family. Ive worked for mr. Trump for a long time and i can tell you that mr. Trumps memory is fantastic. Ive never come across a situation where mr. Trump has said something thats not accurate. There are, seriously . Seriously. Seriously . And the same period, Michael Cohen was allegedly negotiating the Stormy Daniels Hush Money Payment on trumps behalf but because he was publicly associated with the Trump Campaign going on the news to because Michael Cohen was one of the public faces of the campaign, Michael Cohen was also being harassed by members of the public. Specifically in the weeks before the election, he was getting Prank Phone Calls from someone who claimed to be a 14 yearold kid. On october 24th, 2016, Michael Cohen texted trumps body man, schiller, to report the prank caller to the Secret Service which, okay, his body man, wrote back, call me which Michael Cohen did. The two men spoke for about a minute and a half. Now the problem for Michael Cohen is that he previously testified that that minute and have phone call was actually a call where Keith Schiller gave his phone to donald trump and cohen updated trump about the Stormy Daniels situation. Today in court, todd blanche sees on the potential disparity to attack Michael Cohen. Is on the few moments when todd blanche has expressed any emotion. That was a lie, you did not talk to President Trump on that night, you talked to Keith Schiller about the Prank Phone Call. Cohen, im not certain that was accurate. Based upon the records that i reviewed and in light of everything going on, i believe i spoke to mr. Trump about the Stormy Daniels matter. Blanche, we are not asking for your belief, this jury does not want to hear what you think happened. Prosecution, objection. Judge merchan, sustained. That was arguably the most successful attack on Michael Cohens credibility in the entire crossexamination and we will see what impact it has on the jury, if any but other than that, the most meaningful thing the defense did was to drag this whole thing out for the entire second half of todays crossexamination, todd blanche really did appear to be Playing For Time, trying to stretch the crossexamination to the end of the day. Court is not in session tomorrow, so donald trump can attend his sons High School Graduation and then quickly leave baron on Graduation Night to go to a fundraiser in minneapolis that is 1700 miles away. Every family celebrates differently. That means the jury will now sit with Michael Cohens testimony for three days which is either a good thing or bad thing. On the one hand, the jury will be left to spend the entire weekend thinking about the defenses First Successful attack on Michael Cohen. On the other hand, the prosecution will have the entire weekend to think about how to respond when they get their chance to question Michael Cohen on monday. At which point, we may be hearing the end of this whole thing. Judge merchan finished the day by telling both sides to be prepared to give their Closing Arguments as soon as next tuesday. Michael cohen will be the last witness for the prosecution. As far as the defense goes, we still do not know which witnesses they will call, if any, the defense still does not know if it is going to call the only Expert Witness on its list , an expert on election law. But there is some speculation that the defense may try and call a witness who is not on their list, a trump world attorney that was close to Rudy Giuliani and was dispatched in 2018 to try and keep Michael Cohen in line. So it seems that trumps defense is making decisions on the fly, including the biggest decision of all, today trumps attorneys told the court that they still do not know if donald trump will take the stand. Joining me now are my great colleagues, rachel maddow, and lawrence odonnell. It is a pleasure to have you both, lawrence i know you were at trial and rachel, i know you follow the saga as we all do and i wonder, Conventional Wisdom out there today is that todd blanche had a better day than he has. I wonder what your assessment is . I think your observation that he seemed to be Playing For Time is a good assessment because everybody who ive seen direct reporting including our own Staff Members who have been in the courtroom and the Overflow Room were all remarking kind of throughout the course of the day, where is this going, where is this going . Not only was there no cinematic or dramatic rhythm to it, it just kind of sprawled, that said, as you pointed out, he did seem to catch Michael Cohen in a bit of a culdesac on the question of whether or not one particular conversation that cohen recounted , whether one particular conversation with trump actually happened the way cohen remembered it. I say it was one conversation with trump because i think its important that that particular phone call wasnt like the linchpin of Michael Cohens testimony or the prosecutions case, this one call that he described with trump was just one of the communications he described in which he sort of updated trump on the status of the Hush Money Scheme with Stormy Daniels. Its not a key matter, by trying to shake Michael Cohens memory loose on that point, by trying to make the jury question whether or not the call went down exactly the way he said it did, they are essentially trying to stick a prybar in the crack and mess him up as a witness and make it seem like nothing he said can be trusted at all and that is certainly a real legal tactic. It appears to be the only thing they have accomplished on cross examination, so i will be interested to see when redirect starts, when the prosecution gets him back as a witness and when both sides to their summations, whether this is going to be effectively, their whole defense against this whole case for donald trump. A Prank Phone Call that led to a call to Keith Schiller. Lets just talk about how this landed in the courtroom. The transcript reads that Michael Cohen, he sticks to his line, effectively. He does not capitulate but because blanche showed some emotion and was on attack mode, how did it feel to you . Let me get control of this emotion thing. Weve all heard tv shows, tv political chat shows where its louder and angrier than what todd blanche did so yeah, it was the loudest that how todd blanche has been in the loudest voice i heard but this was the most mildmannered courtroom ive ever been in including Michael Cohen and as rachel knows, especially the judge and the other lawyers, so theres a certain amount of excitement surging out of that room with the reporters who finally heard somebody Say Something that sounded you know, really, you know, dramatic, and it did, and it was extremely effective and one reason why it was extremely effective is that it was a surprise. This was not a piece that the District Attorney had prepared us for. The crank collar, we found out about in crossexamination, we didnt know about the crank collar on direct examination, so we are all sitting there learning about the crank collar who turns out to be 14 years old and Michael Cohen handles it, generously for him, once he found out its a 14yearold kid but he was trying to scare the kid, dont do this. So what it eventually became for Michael Cohen is okay, the call that i made to Keith Schiller at 8102 and earlier tonight i just reread the way he described that with the District Attorney, what happened today doesnt contradict what he said to the District Attorney, it amplifies it. If true, so it was yeah, i called Keith Schiller right in the middle of that Harassment Business and yes, i said something to Keith Schiller about the harassment thing, what do we do about that and then he handed the phone to donald trump and i said to him, weve got to wrap up the Stormy Daniels thing and all that happens in one minute 32 and if you write that dialogue, it can happen in a minute 32. Especially when Donald Trumps responses in these dialogues and other spots include lifelike, just do it. Thats good. Thats good. And the just do it line comes before this phone call happens, so to rachels point which is important, is this phone call isnt the only testimony about donald trump ordering this payoff to Stormy Daniels which in effect, causes the false Business Records to be created, which is what, by the way, the trials about falsifying businesses, theres 34, todd blanche hasnt mentioned one of them, so, did todd blanche have a good day, yes, as long as you count the day as 10 minutes. But i will say, the rest of his day was effective because it was messy, the da did this chronologically, he just rambled all over different dates and thats a smart move because it makes Michael Cohen flying chaotic whereas, in the das version of it, you understood okay, his profession was lying for donald trump in house, for donald trump whether it be to Gossip Magazines or eventually for a political candidate. And then there comes a time where his line for donald trump gets him indicted and now youve got him in this weird crossfire of his own lies but when you hear it in that you know, biographical way, when i was told by the prosecution, it makes sense, when you heard it through todd blanche today, its chaotic lying, so it was a smart move by blanche to not go chronologically. To lawrences point and to your point, the defense has not focused in on i dont know why donald trump would be paying Michael Cohen 35,000 a month and they havent gotten to the essence of the charges at all, they really focused on the credibility issue. And i was reminded of something that the judge said about Michael Cohens credibility in the civil fraud case. This is in his ruling, this factfinder does not believe that pleading guilty to perjury means that you can never tell the truth. Michael cohen told the truth. I mean, its a very simple concept but i think it could hold up here. So a, Michael Cohen could have been lying about other things and not lying about the things he has testified to. That can rationally exist. The other thing though, and i think this might have been with the prosecution was driving at in their Opening Statements when they essentially conceded like yeah, Michael Cohen, controversial guy, you will hear a lot about Michael Cohen here but everything important you will hear from him, we have collaborated. We have other ways to prove to you that the important things that hes going to say are things that actually happened. So the prosecution has been preparing for months for the whole defense mounted against this case on trumps behalf to be Michael Cohen is a liar. If that is what they are trying to do, if thats what they are tripling down on, if thats the only defense they will mount, ultimately with the jury is being told is donald trump hired a guy whos a real bully and a liar to do his work for him and had him work for him doing that for about 10 years. And oh, by the way, the underlying scheme thats being charged here as a felony, is effectively a lie, when youre paying hush money to somebody, you are telling them to live by omission, to not tell a true story because you dont want it to get out, so if what they are proving is donald trump as a way of doing business had somebody on his payroll whose job was professionally to lie and intimidate people and that is in effect a description of the underlying conduct that led to the charges. Im not sure the jury ultimately has a great revelation, you know, about no, theres a liar in this room. Its as helpful to the prosecution as it is to the defense. Lying liars and the people who live. Lawrence, did you get a sense that the killing time was really another part of their strategy and all of this. Its not killing time, its entertaining donald trump. So Donald Trumps definition of torture on a Witness Stand is just being on a Witness Stand which is why he never does it, so he thinks every minute you are on the Witness Stand under oath is hell of his demand is make sure that it is hell for those people who get on the Witness Stand and testify against me and so, its a risky thing for lawyers because you know, jurors, catch on when you are treading water and they dont like it but i dont think todd blanche has reached that point with the jury, i think she kept kept it alive today, and the fact that he kept jumping around chronologically it was helpful to keep everybody alert and he did something that lawyers rarely ever get to do and any trial, he surprised everybody. This 14yearold phone call harassed her, who turned out to be a key element of important phone call, was not in this case until he pulled that rabbit out of the hat, so jurors arent going to penalize you for that, that keeps them awake. Of the 14yearold, i believe now 22yearold, we invite you to the program, would love to hear what you said to Michael Cohen, is your Refrigerator Running . I would like to know. Please stay with me, we have much more to discuss this evening in our Special Coverage of Donald Trumps Hush Money Trial right after the break. The break. And certificates at umgc. Edu. Are your gutters clogged . Cleaning them can be dangerous, mucky, yuck. Get leaffilter. Its as easy as one, two, three. Call or click today. Get your free Gutter Inspection on your schedule and Donald Trumps<\/a> first Criminal Trial<\/a>. Michael cohen, was back on the stand today, Facing Cross Examination<\/a> from todd blanche. For anyone who is county, mr. Cohen has been on the stand for more than 14 hours with more to come on monday. And nearly all day today todd blanche tried to undermine mr. Cohens credibility as a witness. Blanche spent half the morning recalling different episodes when Michael Cohen<\/a> lied publicly, lying to congress, lying in court, lying about whether or not he sought a party, if it essentially forcing one to admit that he has been untruthful. Blanche also tried to paint as something as a renegade, a man who spent the 2016 Election Cycle Casting<\/a> out on his own, speaking to the press both publicly and privately, without Donald Trumps<\/a> consent, or his supervision. Blanche tried to call into question Michael Cohen<\/a>s memory, his ability to recall key moments in this case. And that all built to what was probably the biggest moment of today, when the defense managed to cast doubt on a key part of commerce story. You have to go back to 2016 when donald trump was running an unusually Clean Campaign<\/a> for president. And one of his unlikely Campaign Surrogates<\/a> was his personal attorney, Michael Cohen<\/a>. These are Donald Trumps<\/a> words, hes going to stay true to who he is and he is going to end up in all fairness, hes going to end up winning this election. Hes a mentor, hes a sage, hes like family. Ive worked for mr. Trump for a long time and i can tell you that mr. Trumps memory is fantastic. Ive never come across a situation where mr. Trump has said something thats not accurate. There are, seriously . Seriously. Seriously . And the same period, Michael Cohen<\/a> was allegedly negotiating the Stormy Daniels<\/a> Hush Money Payment<\/a> on trumps behalf but because he was publicly associated with the Trump Campaign<\/a> going on the news to because Michael Cohen<\/a> was one of the public faces of the campaign, Michael Cohen<\/a> was also being harassed by members of the public. Specifically in the weeks before the election, he was getting Prank Phone Calls<\/a> from someone who claimed to be a 14 yearold kid. On october 24th, 2016, Michael Cohen<\/a> texted trumps body man, schiller, to report the prank caller to the Secret Service<\/a> which, okay, his body man, wrote back, call me which Michael Cohen<\/a> did. The two men spoke for about a minute and a half. Now the problem for Michael Cohen<\/a> is that he previously testified that that minute and have phone call was actually a call where Keith Schiller<\/a> gave his phone to donald trump and cohen updated trump about the Stormy Daniels<\/a> situation. Today in court, todd blanche sees on the potential disparity to attack Michael Cohen<\/a>. Is on the few moments when todd blanche has expressed any emotion. That was a lie, you did not talk to President Trump<\/a> on that night, you talked to Keith Schiller<\/a> about the Prank Phone Call<\/a>. Cohen, im not certain that was accurate. Based upon the records that i reviewed and in light of everything going on, i believe i spoke to mr. Trump about the Stormy Daniels<\/a> matter. Blanche, we are not asking for your belief, this jury does not want to hear what you think happened. Prosecution, objection. Judge merchan, sustained. That was arguably the most successful attack on Michael Cohen<\/a>s credibility in the entire crossexamination and we will see what impact it has on the jury, if any but other than that, the most meaningful thing the defense did was to drag this whole thing out for the entire second half of todays crossexamination, todd blanche really did appear to be Playing For Time<\/a>, trying to stretch the crossexamination to the end of the day. Court is not in session tomorrow, so donald trump can attend his sons High School Graduation<\/a> and then quickly leave baron on Graduation Night<\/a> to go to a fundraiser in minneapolis that is 1700 miles away. Every family celebrates differently. That means the jury will now sit with Michael Cohen<\/a>s testimony for three days which is either a good thing or bad thing. On the one hand, the jury will be left to spend the entire weekend thinking about the defenses First Successful<\/a> attack on Michael Cohen<\/a>. On the other hand, the prosecution will have the entire weekend to think about how to respond when they get their chance to question Michael Cohen<\/a> on monday. At which point, we may be hearing the end of this whole thing. Judge merchan finished the day by telling both sides to be prepared to give their Closing Arguments<\/a> as soon as next tuesday. Michael cohen will be the last witness for the prosecution. As far as the defense goes, we still do not know which witnesses they will call, if any, the defense still does not know if it is going to call the only Expert Witness<\/a> on its list , an expert on election law. But there is some speculation that the defense may try and call a witness who is not on their list, a trump world attorney that was close to Rudy Giuliani<\/a> and was dispatched in 2018 to try and keep Michael Cohen<\/a> in line. So it seems that trumps defense is making decisions on the fly, including the biggest decision of all, today trumps attorneys told the court that they still do not know if donald trump will take the stand. Joining me now are my great colleagues, rachel maddow, and lawrence odonnell. It is a pleasure to have you both, lawrence i know you were at trial and rachel, i know you follow the saga as we all do and i wonder, Conventional Wisdom<\/a> out there today is that todd blanche had a better day than he has. I wonder what your assessment is . I think your observation that he seemed to be Playing For Time<\/a> is a good assessment because everybody who ive seen direct reporting including our own Staff Members<\/a> who have been in the courtroom and the Overflow Room<\/a> were all remarking kind of throughout the course of the day, where is this going, where is this going . Not only was there no cinematic or dramatic rhythm to it, it just kind of sprawled, that said, as you pointed out, he did seem to catch Michael Cohen<\/a> in a bit of a culdesac on the question of whether or not one particular conversation that cohen recounted , whether one particular conversation with trump actually happened the way cohen remembered it. I say it was one conversation with trump because i think its important that that particular phone call wasnt like the linchpin of Michael Cohen<\/a>s testimony or the prosecutions case, this one call that he described with trump was just one of the communications he described in which he sort of updated trump on the status of the Hush Money Scheme<\/a> with Stormy Daniels<\/a>. Its not a key matter, by trying to shake Michael Cohen<\/a>s memory loose on that point, by trying to make the jury question whether or not the call went down exactly the way he said it did, they are essentially trying to stick a prybar in the crack and mess him up as a witness and make it seem like nothing he said can be trusted at all and that is certainly a real legal tactic. It appears to be the only thing they have accomplished on cross examination, so i will be interested to see when redirect starts, when the prosecution gets him back as a witness and when both sides to their summations, whether this is going to be effectively, their whole defense against this whole case for donald trump. A Prank Phone Call<\/a> that led to a call to Keith Schiller<\/a>. Lets just talk about how this landed in the courtroom. The transcript reads that Michael Cohen<\/a>, he sticks to his line, effectively. He does not capitulate but because blanche showed some emotion and was on attack mode, how did it feel to you . Let me get control of this emotion thing. Weve all heard tv shows, tv political chat shows where its louder and angrier than what todd blanche did so yeah, it was the loudest that how todd blanche has been in the loudest voice i heard but this was the most mildmannered courtroom ive ever been in including Michael Cohen<\/a> and as rachel knows, especially the judge and the other lawyers, so theres a certain amount of excitement surging out of that room with the reporters who finally heard somebody Say Something<\/a> that sounded you know, really, you know, dramatic, and it did, and it was extremely effective and one reason why it was extremely effective is that it was a surprise. This was not a piece that the District Attorney<\/a> had prepared us for. The crank collar, we found out about in crossexamination, we didnt know about the crank collar on direct examination, so we are all sitting there learning about the crank collar who turns out to be 14 years old and Michael Cohen<\/a> handles it, generously for him, once he found out its a 14yearold kid but he was trying to scare the kid, dont do this. So what it eventually became for Michael Cohen<\/a> is okay, the call that i made to Keith Schiller<\/a> at 8102 and earlier tonight i just reread the way he described that with the District Attorney<\/a>, what happened today doesnt contradict what he said to the District Attorney<\/a>, it amplifies it. If true, so it was yeah, i called Keith Schiller<\/a> right in the middle of that Harassment Business<\/a> and yes, i said something to Keith Schiller<\/a> about the harassment thing, what do we do about that and then he handed the phone to donald trump and i said to him, weve got to wrap up the Stormy Daniels<\/a> thing and all that happens in one minute 32 and if you write that dialogue, it can happen in a minute 32. Especially when Donald Trumps<\/a> responses in these dialogues and other spots include lifelike, just do it. Thats good. Thats good. And the just do it line comes before this phone call happens, so to rachels point which is important, is this phone call isnt the only testimony about donald trump ordering this payoff to Stormy Daniels<\/a> which in effect, causes the false Business Records<\/a> to be created, which is what, by the way, the trials about falsifying businesses, theres 34, todd blanche hasnt mentioned one of them, so, did todd blanche have a good day, yes, as long as you count the day as 10 minutes. But i will say, the rest of his day was effective because it was messy, the da did this chronologically, he just rambled all over different dates and thats a smart move because it makes Michael Cohen<\/a> flying chaotic whereas, in the das version of it, you understood okay, his profession was lying for donald trump in house, for donald trump whether it be to Gossip Magazines<\/a> or eventually for a political candidate. And then there comes a time where his line for donald trump gets him indicted and now youve got him in this weird crossfire of his own lies but when you hear it in that you know, biographical way, when i was told by the prosecution, it makes sense, when you heard it through todd blanche today, its chaotic lying, so it was a smart move by blanche to not go chronologically. To lawrences point and to your point, the defense has not focused in on i dont know why donald trump would be paying Michael Cohen<\/a> 35,000 a month and they havent gotten to the essence of the charges at all, they really focused on the credibility issue. And i was reminded of something that the judge said about Michael Cohen<\/a>s credibility in the civil fraud case. This is in his ruling, this factfinder does not believe that pleading guilty to perjury means that you can never tell the truth. Michael cohen told the truth. I mean, its a very simple concept but i think it could hold up here. So a, Michael Cohen<\/a> could have been lying about other things and not lying about the things he has testified to. That can rationally exist. The other thing though, and i think this might have been with the prosecution was driving at in their Opening Statements<\/a> when they essentially conceded like yeah, Michael Cohen<\/a>, controversial guy, you will hear a lot about Michael Cohen<\/a> here but everything important you will hear from him, we have collaborated. We have other ways to prove to you that the important things that hes going to say are things that actually happened. So the prosecution has been preparing for months for the whole defense mounted against this case on trumps behalf to be Michael Cohen<\/a> is a liar. If that is what they are trying to do, if thats what they are tripling down on, if thats the only defense they will mount, ultimately with the jury is being told is donald trump hired a guy whos a real bully and a liar to do his work for him and had him work for him doing that for about 10 years. And oh, by the way, the underlying scheme thats being charged here as a felony, is effectively a lie, when youre paying hush money to somebody, you are telling them to live by omission, to not tell a true story because you dont want it to get out, so if what they are proving is donald trump as a way of doing business had somebody on his payroll whose job was professionally to lie and intimidate people and that is in effect a description of the underlying conduct that led to the charges. Im not sure the jury ultimately has a great revelation, you know, about no, theres a liar in this room. Its as helpful to the prosecution as it is to the defense. Lying liars and the people who live. Lawrence, did you get a sense that the killing time was really another part of their strategy and all of this. Its not killing time, its entertaining donald trump. So Donald Trumps<\/a> definition of torture on a Witness Stand<\/a> is just being on a Witness Stand<\/a> which is why he never does it, so he thinks every minute you are on the Witness Stand<\/a> under oath is hell of his demand is make sure that it is hell for those people who get on the Witness Stand<\/a> and testify against me and so, its a risky thing for lawyers because you know, jurors, catch on when you are treading water and they dont like it but i dont think todd blanche has reached that point with the jury, i think she kept kept it alive today, and the fact that he kept jumping around chronologically it was helpful to keep everybody alert and he did something that lawyers rarely ever get to do and any trial, he surprised everybody. This 14yearold phone call harassed her, who turned out to be a key element of important phone call, was not in this case until he pulled that rabbit out of the hat, so jurors arent going to penalize you for that, that keeps them awake. Of the 14yearold, i believe now 22yearold, we invite you to the program, would love to hear what you said to Michael Cohen<\/a>, is your Refrigerator Running<\/a> . I would like to know. Please stay with me, we have much more to discuss this evening in our Special Coverage<\/a> of Donald Trumps<\/a> Hush Money Trial<\/a> right after the break. The break. And certificates at umgc. Edu. Are your gutters clogged . Cleaning them can be dangerous, mucky, yuck. Get leaffilter. Its as easy as one, two, three. Call or click today. Get your free Gutter Inspection<\/a> on your schedule and Get Leaffilter<\/a> installed in as little as a few hours. Youll never have to clean out your gutters again, guaranteed. Get leaf filter today. 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When you join the cause, your 10 monthly donation can help communities in need of lifesaving treatments and nutrients, prevent children from dropping out of school. Support our work with communities and governments to help children go from short term surviving to long term thriving. And now, thanks to special government grants, every dollar you give can multiply up to ten times the impact. That means more food, water, medicine and help for kids around the world. Youll also receive a free tote bag to share your support for children in need. Having your childhood eaten away by hunger is unimaginable. Get fed up. Call us now or visit getfedupnow. Org, today. We have a lot of congressmen and senators down today and they are all up in arms over this. They cant even believe it. Quite a few congressmen, you will be talking to them. Day after day, trump surrogates have been setting up shop after court and talking to the press. Trump is barred by his gag order and is also part from directing others to talk about those people which is what makes all of this so concerning. When trumps latest batch of surrogates spoke today, they again attacked two individuals the judge has specifically identified as offlimits, Michael Cohen<\/a> and the judges own daughter. Im honored to be here with my colleagues from the House Freedom<\/a> caucus where we watched Michael Cohen<\/a> get dog walked through the series of lies he has told. Perjure in chief, Michael Cohen<\/a>. Mr. Cohen, admitted repeatedly that he lied. He admitted to lying to numbers of congress. Seeing the lack of credibility from Michael Cohen<\/a>. We would be remiss if we did not mention this corrupt judge, this judge whose own family is making six figures off of democrat politics. We have a judge whose daughter the judges daughter thats the judges daughter all of that, clearly breaks the judges gag order if trump indeed directed it. The question now, is did he . This gag order is to ensure that he cannot defend himself fairly so we are here to have his back and we are President Trump<\/a>s voice and we have his back and he will ultimately be proven innocent. Rachel, the contention here is these people are here as members of the public. I know you have been to the courtroom and i hear its a difficult thing, can you talk about what that process was like for you getting seats and how coveted those seats were . Its a big long line and you have to wait forever and theres tons of security and it blows out your whole day i mean lawrence has been doing it every day. Its no easy thing. I think it cost some of those members of Congress Votes<\/a> today in d. C. Im a big believer in people showing up to court and if you know somebody whos on trial and you believe in their innocence or whether or not you believe in it, you just want to support them, being there for them, thats a good thing. Theres a reason why our courtrooms are open to the public, so everybody can see the proceedings and everybody can show up. But if you are a you know, public official, the kind of person whos going to speak to the cameras when you walk out during the morning break, the normal course of events is to say, im here to support my friend or my colleague or my boss or the guy i want to hire me to be Vice President<\/a> , i believe in x persons innocence, and i believe the jury is going to see that truth, too, i believe that this will be born out in the end and everybody will see. That my colleague, my friend, my boss is innocent. Thats all normal but instead what you are getting is these numbers of congress saying we are here to support him and the american legal system is illegitimate and corrupt. And the judge is corrupt and we tell you about the judges family. And that is just a wholly different thing. It is a hard thing to have people in very high office committing crimes. It was hard next and, hard with agnew and its hard with trump. Instead youve got a Political Party<\/a> saying the american legal system should be gotten rid of because its corrupt and the people involved in it are corrupt and evil and persecuting you and me. That is something totally different, that is corrosive to the legal system and potentially fundamentally destructive to it if that will become the new pro protocol. There are so many levels at which this is appalling, lawrence, theres The Big Picture<\/a> that rachel is outlining, theres the smaller picture of what it is doing two potential witnesses, there was a back and forth about these surrogates being in the trial during crossexamination, Michael Cohen<\/a> has to walk by them, going out there and interviewing cohen, can you talk about the net effect that this is having as you go to this trial . In the courtroom, no effect at all. You know the old parliamentary phrase, backbenchers, thats what they became because there were too many of them today, theres a row in the front behind donald trump for supporters and theres usually not two or three of them but there were so many of them that they were literally sent to the back bench of the courtroom that is against the wall, furthest away from their hero, and most were people who, i didnt know who they were, i knew they were members of congress but its not like they were the most prominent, some of them, i knew who they were but they have absolutely no effect on the proceedings. With that shot of them outdoors, thats the largest collection of Trump Supporters<\/a> who have ever gathered at the publicly available Gathering Place<\/a> for all Trump Supporters<\/a> to come. You notice theres no one behind them. Nypd has reserved a spot for citizens from all over america or New York City<\/a> or lower manhattan, voters, Trump Supporters<\/a>, fighting voters, no one comes, donald trump one of them to come, they refused to come those people came and thats his biggest crowd ever. Here is an opportunity they have because what they do is they come in for the morning session, they leave at the first recess which is 11 00 a. M. And they never come back. Matt gaetz is the only one who came back but now theyve been in the courtroom, theyve been there for two hours. You watched judge merchan, instead of coming up and talking about his daughter, come up and talk about his rulings because you just watched him make some rulings, you watched him rule on several objections and you watched him overrule the prosecutors objections a number of times, did you agree with that . You watched him sustain some objections, do you understand why . Because what todd blanche just said was argumentative and not a question. One of the great tragedies of this trial, not being televised is that they get to go out there and lie about how the trial is going because none of them have ever in their lives seen and they never will see a more fair judge than judge merchan, and any televised version of this trial would prove that, every minute of the trial. Chris hayes referred to him as a picture of and enemy we have new reporting that i find absolutely staggering, that for days, around january 17, 2021, neighbors told the New York Times<\/a> that Justice Alito<\/a>, had an American Flag<\/a> hanging upside down outside of his house. That inverted flag was being used as a symbol of the stop the steal movement. This is a justice who is very engaged around issues regarding trumps role in the instruction, apparently had a stop the steal flag flying outside of his house and he says i had no involvement of the flying of the flag, it was briefly placed by mrs. Alito in response to a neighbors use of objectionable language on our yard signs. This is just a battle between neighbors, rachel, do you have thoughts on that news coming against the backdrop of today . I mean, its, its unsettling, its gross. I mean, first of all, everybody has different Marriage Rules<\/a> but its my wifes fault is probably never within the Marriage Rules<\/a> when youre talking to the New York Times<\/a> about something that youve done that has brought enough scandal on you and the institution that you represent that its on the front page of the New York Times<\/a>. Even if it was, i dont know, i dont want to give any advice. But i feel like, the upside down flag, it wasnt like he had a trump 2024 or 2028 five, it was the American Flag<\/a> upside down which is the traditional symbol of distress. Unless mrs. Alito was signaling her distress and calling for help, the explanation makes no sense, that was something that people were doing around that time to indicate that the country was effectively under siege in some way. I mean, Justice Alito<\/a> has become increasingly on embarrassed about displaying himself as a consumer of partisan media, and its just disdainful toward a majority of the country. And this fits with that but its also something that ive never heard anything like this in the entire history of every controversy ive ever known about. I think chief Justice Roberts<\/a> has a problem on his hands in terms of the behavior of some of the more aggressive justices and those who are flouting ethics concerns with their behavior. That flag is not Donald Trumps<\/a> fault that flag is george w. Bushs fault, thats who appointed samuel alito to the Supreme Court<\/a> so anyone who got in the 2000 election, al gore doesnt excite me, thats what you got from the decision or if you thought bush is the reason i think hes going to be more of a connecticut bush than a texas bush, you were wrong, this is what you got. Legacy of the court. Its on the ballot again this year. Rachel maddow, lawrence odonnell, thank you for joining me. I appreciate your time and energies. We have more Special Coverage<\/a> of the day 18 trump Criminal Trial<\/a> after the break, stay with us. With us. So like other people have it and its not. Pick up a bag of the new Scotts Turf Builder<\/a> healthy plus lawn food today. Feed your lawn. Feed it. heartburn makes you queasy . Get fast relief with new tums upset stomach nausea support, and love food back. every day, more dog people are deciding its time for a fresh approach to pet food. Developed with vets. Made from real meat and veggies. Portioned for your dog. And delivered right to your door. Its smarter, healthier pet food. Tech does your windshield have a crack . Trust safelite. This customer had auto glass damage, but he was busy working from home. So he scheduled with safelite in just a few clicks. We came to his house. Then we got to work. We replaced his windshield. And installed new wipers to protect his new glass. Customer looks great. Thank you. Tech my pleasure. Vo we come to you for free. Schedule now for Free Mobile Service<\/a> at safelite. Com. Safelite repair, safelite replace. Dad and i finally had that talk. No, not that talk. About what the future looks like. For me. I may have trouble getting around, but i want to live in my home where im comfortable and my friends are nearby. I can do it with the help of a barber, personal shopper and exercise buddy. Someone who can help me live right at home. Lifes good. When you have a plan. Today prosecutor Susan Hopkins<\/a> called for a sidebar about the ongoing presence of trumps entourage in the courtroom. I noticed that some of his guests are already here with her Security Detail<\/a> but we would just ask that they not be allowed to file income in the middle of mr. Blanches cross examination, the court, yes, i would advise that not happen, todd blanche, your honor, i have less than zero control over what is happening on anyone that is behind me when i am crossing a witness, i dont have any control over that, they are members of the public. To be clear, these lawmakers are sitting in seats reserved for Donald Trumps<\/a> defense team. Joining me now is congressman schiff, thank you for being here. I imagine you have some thoughts about your fellow House Colleagues<\/a> who have been trekking up to New York City<\/a> to stand outside of the courtroom and weigh in on this trial. I have so many thoughts and let me start with the speaker, i have to say i was flabbergasted that he would go and make that pilgrimage, stand outside the courthouse, and basically lie about whats going on inside the building. Its bad enough that he lacked the selfrespect that he feels he needs to go and Kiss The Ring<\/a> in such a public and debasing way but also, for him to denigrate the justice system, for him to make the false claim that this trial was designed to keep trump off the campaign trail, he knows better than that but it shows, you know the most powerful top ranking republican in the congress, you know, will do anything for donald trump, and for those others, you know the matt gaetz, the paula luna, these are crazy people and you dont expect much more but i will say this, too, the fact that some of them are going into the courtroom, this is a way to tamper with the jury, this is a way to essentially communicate to the jury that we believe this is political, we are here to show support for the president. Thats making a statement without saying a word. And that is distressing for much the same reason. Huntsman because you singled out the speaker, you were one of 163 democrats who voted to effectively save speaker johnson for the motion to vacate, do you have any regrets about that and would you do it again if there was another call to oust him from his position . I dont regret it, we need a governing entity, we need somebody sitting in that speakers chair. I want to get things done for my constituents, weve got major challenges with the cost of housing and childcare, i want to get things done, you cant do that without a speaker in the chair, second, i didnt believe it was right to essentially vacate him from the chair because he finally got around to approving ukraine eight, so for both of those reasons i dont have regrets but i have to say, its still difficult to stomach when you see him do what he did, standing in front of the courthouse and it just shows you that there is no one in that republican conference anymore, not since liz cheney left, not since Adam Kinzinger<\/a> left, that has any real, commitment to the constitution, their oath, our system of justice. Its all about keeping power, gaining power, and no debasement to great before their supreme leader. Its worth noting that the cynical moves and not end at the New York City<\/a> courthouse. A lot of those same members had to travel back to washington to vote to hold the Attorney General<\/a> in contempt for refusing to hand over the tapes of the conversations that President Biden<\/a> had with the special counsel. The onetwo punch of standing out there. Tell me more about that endeavor. Well, i was sitting in that Judiciary Committee<\/a> as a member of the committee, as they were bringing up this bogus effort to hold the Attorney General<\/a> in contempt for not giving audiotapes of something they already have the transcripts for. Its come to that pathetic of a motion to hold the Attorney General<\/a> of the United States<\/a> in contempt for so they can give tapes to the Campaign Team<\/a> for Campaign Commercials<\/a> that is Donald Trumps<\/a> campaign but meanwhile, you had republican members missing from the whole debate because they are in new york, you had you know, members like matt gaetz who missed the vote completely, and it shows you where their priorities. They dont think its important enough to stay in washington to vote on holding the Attorney General<\/a> in contempt of it has to compete with being a spectator in the Hush Money Payment<\/a> to a star trial of donald trump. And you know, they, they, the thing that i find so shocking about all of this is, i have to imagine and i made this point at committee, that if you asked mike johnson 10 to 15 years ago whether he could ever see himself standing in front of the Courthouse Vouching<\/a> for the character effectively of someone charged with paying Hush Money Payment<\/a> to a star he would have never imagined doing such a crass thing and yet, there he is. And its one small surrender of you know, morality, followed by another, slightly bigger and pretty soon you are standing outside of the courtroom paying hush money to a porn star. I want to get your reporting that Justice Samuel<\/a> alito was reportedly flying a stop the steal flag in front of his house around january 17th of 2021. Do you have a thought on that given the role the Supreme Court<\/a> has played around january 6th . This is why americans have no trust in the Supreme Court<\/a> anymore. They see a justice with a flag you know essentially a stop the steal flag outside of their home, presiding, sitting in cases affecting the investigation into that effort to incite the attack on the capitol. You have justice thomas, whose wife was in Text Messages<\/a> and email communications about this effort to overturn the election, sitting and voting against as a member of the court, voting against providing documents to congress that might implicate his spouse, not just a perceived conflict but a real conflict and this is why people have no confidence in the court and there at the moment, theres no recourse for this. They can violate the Code Of Ethics<\/a> because there is no enforceable Code Of Ethics<\/a> to the Supreme Court<\/a> but i think as you were discussing earlier with respect to alito, he is proud of his disdain for public opinion. He is more than willing to wear his partisan colors on his sleeve or in this case, on the flagpole. , smith adam shiff, thank you for joining me. I appreciate your time, sir. Thank you. We have more Special Coverage<\/a> of trump on trial coming up right after this break. This break. Shop etsy until june 16th and get up to 30 off fathers day gifts that go beyond the classic goto. Save on personalized gear, and other things dads dig. When you want a oneofakind gift to show him hes 1. Etsy has it. i thought water would help with these dry spots. Thats lawn disease. But Scotts Healthy Plus<\/a> will cure it lawn disease . Been going around. So like other people have it and its not. Pick up a bag of the new Scotts Turf Builder<\/a> healthy plus lawn food today. 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Lets fly Inaudible Sounds<\/a> chief doug. Inaudible Sounds<\/a> ooooo ah. Elevator Doors Opening<\/a> Inaudible Sounds<\/a> i thought you were right behind me. Only pay for what you need. Liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty. Today Trump Defense<\/a> attorney todd blanche spent most of the day trying to present Michael Cohen<\/a> is a liar. You lied under oath, correct . Yes sir. Blanche, as we talked about you pled guilty to lying to congress, correct . Cohen, i did. You get the gist. Todd blanche spent a lot of time on Michael Cohen<\/a>s lies, but it should be noted he spent little time challenging his main assertions about Donald Trumps<\/a> knowledge and complicity in the Stormy Daniels<\/a> Hush Money Scheme<\/a>. Does that matter . Draining you know as the former assistant District Attorney<\/a> for the Eastern District<\/a> of new york and Senior Writer<\/a> at politico magazine. Thank you both. Does it matter . The excess of lies that cohen admitted to on the stand. He is a lying liar who lies all the time and everyone agrees about that. The prosecution agrees, the defense agrees. Michael cohen agrees. Everyone agrees but i think where the defense was effective in the crossexamination was not only establishing for hours of testimony that he lied in the past. They did an effective job, but they showed instances where Michael Cohen<\/a> lied on the stand, to this jury during this trial and i think it resonated differently. For example, Michael Cohen<\/a> testified that he never wanted to be Chief Of Staff<\/a> at the white house. The defense confronted him today with emails and Text Messages<\/a> that showed he was pining for this job. Does it matter . No, but it is a lie he told to this jury. Another example, he said he was never disputing the underlying facts of his tax crimes and the defense did a good job showing excerpts from his book, which is called revenge, and excerpts of his Trial Testimony<\/a> from the civil fraud trial, showing in fact that he was disputing the facts of his tax crimes. He said he pleaded guilty in the Southern District<\/a> because he was coerced into that plea. They were threatening to indict his wife and the defense showed the plea allocution, which undermined that, too. Those dont really bear on the ultimate act, but our little lies here and there he was telling on tuesday to this jury and then this phone call that happened on october 24. The Keith Schiller<\/a> phone call. Look, it is explainable because we know from common sense that when you are texting with somebody and you say this person is bothering me and someone says call me and you have a 92nd phone call, you are probably having a phone call about what you are texting about and that makes sense from common sense, but it is possible they had a conversation about Stormy Daniels<\/a> during that 92nd phone call. I partially blame the prosecution for pinning this so specifically, this date, this time this particular phone call. They could have said, did there come a time when you had this conversation . It doesnt need to be as specific as this call on the 24th. Of course the wire payment happened two days later and there were two other phone calls two days later between Michael Cohen<\/a> and donald trump. It is all explainable, but they had a gotcha moment with that 90 second phone call where Michael Cohen<\/a> testified on direct examination that he spoke on tuesday. On tuesday to this very jury in this witness box, to these people. So i think that is a problem and they will now be able to go in closing and say not only is he a liar, but he lied to you. He took an oath and looked at you, you who will be rendering this verdict, he lied to you and you cannot convict donald trump based on the say so of a liar and allen weisselberg, who is missing. That is the defense. It has to be because Allen Weisselbergs<\/a> handwriting is all over this case. Theyve got to say this was the two of them working together. One of them is a liar, he lied to you, and the other is missing. As in addition to painting him as a liar they also painted him as unhinged. Lets listen. I truly [ bleep ] hope this man ends up in prison. It wont bring back the year i lost or the damage done to my family, but revenge is a dish best served cold and i want this man to go down and rot inside for what he did to me and my family. Is that effective . I do think it was effective, actually. I agree with everything that duncan said. I think it was effective because first of all i think it was the defenses best day over the course of the whole trial so far. It is very possible that todd blanche succeeded in creating reasonable doubt in at least one jurors mind. The thing about playing his unhinged commentary is that is also, if i am the defense, another lie im going to tie up in closing. I will say this mans choirboy act, when he was on the stand earlier this week, acting polite and sincere, that was another fraud. That was another, different Michael Cohen<\/a>, lying to you and presenting himself as someone he was not and is the defense will argue, a series of lies. Let me add one last thing. The line that has been offered so frequently from prosecutors and folks in the media that Michael Cohen<\/a> has been fully corroborated is not true and we learned that today because of the call that he had with Keith Schiller<\/a>. In one sense that is corroborated by the call records because we know the call occurred. It is not corroborated in the sense that we dont know what happened during that call unless we take Michael Cohen<\/a>s word for it. So i think this has always been the risk in this case, that this day would come when there would be a very aggressive crossexamination that would swing the needle. We will find out in a matter of days, maybe weeks, if that will come true, but this was sort of inevitable, a day like this. Now we have a couple of days to think about this. Ankush khardori and duncan levin, thank you for your time. We have more Special Coverage<\/a> of Donald Trumps<\/a> Hush Money Trial<\/a> after the break. E break. Okay, so heres my most requested hack for stubborn odors. Youll need vinegar, a large salad bowl and. Oh, hi have you tried tide fabric rinse . It works after your detergent to fight deep odors 3 times better than detergent alone. I love that. Try tide fabric rinse. Were trying to save the planet with nuggets. I love that. Because we need the planet. And we also need nuggets. Impossible. Dangerous ladders. Gutter muck. Were solving the meat problem with more meat. Yuck. No wonder you hate cleaning your gutters. Good thing theres leaffilter. Our patented Filter Technology<\/a> keeps leaves and debris out of your gutters forever. Guaranteed. Call 833 Leaffilter<\/a> to get started. And get the permanent Gutter Solution<\/a> that ends clogs for good. They took the time to answer all of our questions. They really put us at ease. End clogged gutters for good. Call 833. Leaf. Filter, or visit leaffilter. Com today. Sometimes Jonah Wrestles<\/a> with falling asleep. So he takes zzzquil. The worlds 1 sleep aid brand. And wakes up feeling like himself. Get the rest to be your best with nonhabit forming zzzquil. That is our show for tonight. 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