Under oath. Cohen is the last prosecution witness and the question that remains this morning, what, if anything defense will trumps legal team mount . Nbcs Yasmin Vossoughian is outside that courthouse. I also want to bring in our legal panel, former u. S. Attorney and former senior fbi official Chuck Rosenberg, new York Law School professor and director of the schools criminal defense clinic. Ana coe min ski and criminal Defense Attorney and former federal prosecutor duncan levins. There was a little bit of uncertainty this morning in court, a long Bench Meeting before the Cross Examination got underway. Bring us up to speed on all of it. Reporter the last day week five of this trial, a 19minute Bench Meeting at the start of court before the jury was brought in. We dont know what they talked about. Once we get the partial transcript out this morning, were going to figure that out and let you know. A couple of things that have come out so far even just in the last 30 minutes or so, the possibility that they could be in court next wednesday when it comes to scheduling. Remember, were not in court every wednesday because the judge, i believe, has family court. They say they may have to work through next wednesday barring any issues with the jury, so well keep you updated on that, but theres a possibility we could be in session next wednesday as well. Remember, we could also be into Closing Arguments next week considering the fact this is the last witness for the prosecution and whether or not the defense brings up a witness really is in question, the possibility of this Election Expert to be brought up for the defenses witness. That is one, and of course testimony from the former president of the United States. Thats his decision and his decision at the end of the day only, whether or not he testifies, we dont necessarily know yet. So again, a 19minute Bench Meeting, and then they brought Michael Cohen in for, again, Cross Examination. Jose mentioned what theyre going to get into today, going after Michael Cohens credibility, no surprise there. Focusing more on 2016 and 2017. If you remember on tuesday, they talked more about kind of the lead up to 2016 and 2017. They didnt really get into the meat, the heart of the eventual payoff, right . The heart of the eventual time line leading up to the payoff of Stormy Daniels and the documents specifically. Now it seems theyre going to focus more on 2016, 2017, and what they see as repeated lies from Michael Cohen. Thats going to take up the majority of the day. Todd blanche, the lead Defense Attorney, saying he will likely be done with cross by the end of the day. Just quickly here, theyre talking about d. A. Investigator Jeremy Rosenberg who has subsequently now retired. He had gotten too chummy, it seems to Michael Cohen. He is the one who went to Michael Cohens apartment to retrieve some of his cell phones from him. He had become too chummy with Michael Cohen for the d. A. s comfortability. He was relieved from duty at the time. Theyre showing Michael Cohen some Text Messages between himself and Jeremy Rosenberg, not for anybody else to see, just Michael Cohen. Again, that means they are not admitting this into evidence as of yet. So a lot going on, guys, just in the first 30 minutes of this day so far. Yasmin, thanks, stay with us. And lets go to the document to give our viewers a sense of what kind of testimony is coming from Michael Cohen regarding Jeremy Rosenbergs texts. Blanche asks those texts were around the time you testified before the grand jury. Cohen, yes. Blanche, about how you were going to hold trump accountable. Objection, sustained. Cohen, yes. Blanche there was a leak that an indictment had been leaked to the media. Objection, that ones overruled. Blanche, do you remember that prior to the unsealing of the indictment it was leaked that President Trump had been indicted . Cohen, yes. Blanche, Detective Rosenberg confirmed to you that the New York Times article article was accurate and that President Trump had been indicted. Objection, this ones sustained. Blanche, did Detective Rosenberg confirm that it was done . Cohen, im sorry, i dont understand your question. And they show, again, these Text Messages. Blanche, your testimony in the text that you just read is Detective Rosenberg identifying a newspaper article. Thats what it says, yes. Blanche, Detective Rosenberg didnt tell you that they told the New York Times before they told you . And cohen says im sorry, i dont understand your questioning. Its confusing. Interesting because in some of these very direct succinct questions, cohens answer is, im sorry, i dont understand your question. And thats kind of a pattern. Blanche, your testimony is that the text that you just read is Detective Rosenberg identifying a newspaper article. Cohen, thats what it says, yes. Blanche, Detective Rosenberg didnt tell you that they told the New York Times before they told you . Again, cohen, im sorry, i dont understand your question. It is confusing. Blanche, did Detective Rosenberg tell you before the indictment was released and unsealed that they told New York Times about the indictment before they told you . Cohen, no. So im wondering, chuck, why do you think this Text Exchange between cohen and the District Attorneys Office would be important for the defense to bring up here . Yeah, im not sure it is, frankly, ana. Look, and its much easier to do a Cross Examination in a tv studio than in a courtroom, so with that said, i think theres two or three things that you want to Deduce On Cross from Michael Cohen. Hes biased, hes inconsistent. Hes a convicted perjurer. That seems to me to be about it. And if you try to do too much more, and if you take too long to do it, you run the risk of losing the jury. If you could deduce those three points. Hes biased, inconsistent, and a convicted perjurer, you can argue the heck out of that in summation. Ana, the other question and issue is if there is a pattern of someone in the District Attorneys Office becoming friendly with cohen and sharing information that was yet to be shared with the public, that would be a line of questioning that could be, i think, very beneficial to the defense. Well, im not totally sure about that. I have to agree, im not really sure where theyre going, and i think one of the issues here is trying to balance what the client might want done during this Cross Examination with what needs to be done during this Cross Examination. So i agree with my colleague here that, you know, really what they need to do is get in and get out, and one of the things that im concerned about is if they take too long with this, if they go into too many different stories, the jury is not going to follow it. Theyre not going to understand whats going on. On the other hand, they may be doing this because of pressure from their client, which doesnt necessarily mean that its effective for the overall defense strategy. And we have to remember that there was a day in between the Cross Examination that began on tuesday, and so i guess its very likely that trump had conversations. And if i may, im sorry to cut you off. I think anas exactly right. Think about it this way. If you were crossing Stormy Daniels, what do you want to deduce from her . I think one thing. That she has no idea how the books and records of the Trump Organization are maintained. Shes never seen it done, and shes never talked to anyone who did it. End of story. To your point, it may be that the client here wanted her cross examined on other stuff, stuff by the way that seems to me wholly irrelevant to the case, where they had sex, how they had sex. Who cares. If youre going to cross examine a witness, one way to do is to take him or her out of the case entirely. She knows nothing of rem advance relevance to the maintenance of the books. When you have a client like this, you know, youre trying to both please the client and do your job, and those dont always line up together. Lets see how this testimony is going now. Blanche asks cohen, you went on cnn in march last year, and you said this case is like david versus goliath, and you were describing yourself as david and trump as goliath. Blanche asked the question, cohen, yes, sir. And blanche, when you said that, you were driving yourself as david and the president as goliath, correct . Cohen, correct, and you said you have goliath on his back . Cohen, sounds right. Blanche, may we approach, your honor . Merchan, no. So the judge says no. You cant approach. Thats interesting. Todd blanche continues. Rosenberg, referring to the defr from the d. A. s office. Rosenberg complimented you and said fantastic interview. Blanche, do you remember going on tv on march 31st going on with joy reid when Detective Rosenberg complimented you on your interview with joy reid. Cohen, yes, sir. Blanche, that was at the same time that the manhattan d. A. s office was telling you not to do tv, correct . Cohen, correct. Blanche, right around that time, going on the Mea Culpa Podcast and talking about the indictment. Cohen, yes, sir. What do you see in this exchange . Michael cohen does not work for the d. A. s office and this seems to be one of many different lines of questioning in the Cross Examination that have emerged over the past day of Cross Examination. Michael cohen didnt take direction from the d. A. He was out there talking. He was upset that he didnt get a job. He was very wealthy. He was so upset when he didnt get a job, hes out to get trump. Theres nothing wrong with quote, unquote leaking, and frankly, the d. A. s office should be objecting to that term. He didnt leak anything. Hes a witness, and hes allowed if he has information, he is allowed to talk about it. So theres nothing stopping a witness in a criminal investigation from going on a tv show. Now, this does obviously play into the fact that the d. A. s office has these uncontrollable witnesses, much like the Defense Attorneys have an uncontrollable client in donald trump. There are uncontrollable witnesses. Stormy daniels has been doing podcasts and writing things and so has Michael Cohen, but Michael Cohens direct examination was really devastating for two reasons. One having to do with the case. Because in three words, he said he approved it. He turned what was a circumstantial case against donald trump where the prosecution could stand up at the end of the case in front of the jury and say, do you really think that this Penny Pinching Guy who didnt pay his lawyers was just signing these 35,000 checks and had no idea what it was . Michael cohens testimony, if you credit it as a juror, is devastating to that defense case because it makes what was a circumstantial case into a direct case. But it was also worse than that because whereas in the Stormy Daniels testimony, donald trump came off kind of as a predator, an icky you know, hes sitting there in his robe like hugh hefner and there was vivid testimony about Stormy Daniels shaking while she was putting on her gold heeled shoes. Now theres such criminality in Michael Cohens testimony because Michael Cohen is saying after his apartment is raided, Michael Cohen is saying i got you. Im president the of the United States. The fbi works for me. Hes acting like a thug, and while that may not actually bear on the case itself, his testimony is devastating, and this approach to throwing all of this stuff at Michael Cohen is pretty ineffective. And yasmin, right now in the court were talking podcasts. Reporter we are talking podcasts, jose. If you remember on tuesday as well, they brought the Mea Culpa Podcast many times with regards to the fact that Michael Cohen tends to use the Mea Culpa Podcast to kind of air his grievances. Hes somewhat media hungry, how hes talked about donald trump in every single one of these podcasts. They played some audio for folks to hear in the courtroom when it came to Donald Trumps specific arraignment in april of 2023, which we were outside at the courthouse for, in which he says Michael Cohen is thanking the d. A. s office for his work, and he says, quote, Unquote Picturing donald trump being led through the Booking Process fills me with delight. Going on to say, sadness as i say because what an embarrassment it is to the office of the presidency, so the of playing this as evidence for both the jury obviously in the courtroom to hear from Michael Cohens Mea Culpa Podcast. Important to note here, guys, as well, and i think it could be fodder for discussion around the table, which is the difference that were hearing in Michael Cohens answers today versus on tuesday during the initial moments of Cross Examination in which he seemed more kind of like sounds like me and i think thats me, and i believe so, and can i see that document that youre referring to. Today he is being more direct, more straightforward, more terse with his answers saying, yes, no, correct sir. Not correct sir, and so on and so forth. So likely getting a talking to or a coaching from his own personal attorney on the day off on wednesday. So after they listen to this podcast, has now accepted that podcast into evidence, and then theyre playing part of it to the jury right now. If this is all meant to poke holes in the prosecutions case, how is that doing exactly that . Well, listen, todd blanche is a very experienced attorney, and what i can tell you is i am sure he has a plan. You dont go into a Cross Examination like this sort of willy nilly. Hes been thinking a lot about this. And one thing that i can tell you is and im interested to see if he can get there and its really difficult you know, what were seeing right now is a very different cohen than the cohen that weve seen leading up to this trial, right . Everyones been talking about that, how sort of subdued he is. How hes been respectful. He hasnt lost his temper and certainly isnt reflective of how weve seen him in tiktoks and podcasts. So one of the things that ill be interested to see is either can the defense provoke him to sort of have one of these more outbursts that may be more in line with how he is normally, and if not, can they show the jury enough of how he is outside of the courtroom to say to them basically jurors, hes putting on a show for you here. This is not who the real Michael Cohen is. If you want to know who he is, were showing you. Look at this podcast. Look at these tweets. And listen to the tape, which hes saying on tape, this is cohen on his podcast, i truly expletive hope that this man ends up in prison for the damage that he did to me and my family. Revenge is a dish best served cold. You Better Believe that i want this man to go down and locked inside for what he did to me and my family. Then blanche says that wasnt the time of the indictment. Cohen, correct. Blanche, you testified on tuesday that you did not enjoy prison, did you . Cohen, no, sir. Blanche, you said you believe the work you did with prosecutors and book and podcast played a role in the indictment in this case. And cohen says, i took some credit, yes. So that, chuck, is an interesting aspect to bring up beca