Ari melber is here now. What a season of gratitude. Get some rest because well be seeing a lot of you and everyone soon. Have a good show. Thanks, niccole. Welcome to the beat. Im ari melber, and with all the trial news, and more that have late they are house, the top story is political news that will help decide the election because it usually does. Today President Biden and donald trump both agreed to do two new president ial debates, the first coming next month capping weeks of posturing and negotiation that. Breakthrough came today as the Biden Campaign took control of things with a plan that was months in the making, biden using this video here to publicly challenge trump to two debates on the biden schedule with two ready partners on board, abc and cnn. If a debate starting next month sounds different than usual, earlier than usual, it is. This will now be the earliest general Election Campaign debate ever, and that actually matters not only for people tuning in and paying attention, but also for the political strategy at play which were going to get into right now. The times reporting this is what biden wants for a couple of reasons. Democrats think early voting helps them more than the other side. I cant tell you about the future, you about i can tell you the reporting suggesting this was a strategic move for biden because they think that will be true again this year, and they definitely dominated in early voting in 2020 when they defeated and ousted then President Trump. They also know that the highly watched debates tend to mobilized people. Just about Everybody Knows that, and democrats are thinking that jump starting the general election season early will be good for biden. They hope it will benefit them because instead of this abstract discussion about joe biden which as you know includes talk about his age or how he looks or how he sounds, which is kind of an incumbentfocused view, the times and other outlets and other reporting suggesting that they think the sidebyside, his age to trumps age, his trumps trial and bidens presidency hasnt kicked in for people outside of news junkies that will help them. Ill tell you something else, this news that came out today after biden dropped the video, it opens an interesting window if you follow politics. It suggests how joe biden is the oldest president ever, a numerical fact and running against one of the challengers ever, donald trump, they are both older, but it shows how biden is actually still very open to brandnew strategies even that break tradition. A unidebate means trump will also be on face to face a verdict and a debate in the same month, and that could make for some unusual news cycles, to say the least. It could push against trump or for him if he does come off new york prosecutors failing to convict him. So there is a lot to think through here. But when you take 2020, the history, what weve learned, remember, those were debates where joe biden and trump clashed a lot but people really got a closeup of the comparison and thats what led to biden beating an incumbent president which is never easy to do. Lets take a look at 2020. We handed him a booming economy. He blew it. It wasnt blew it . It wasnt joe, i ran because of you. I ran because of barack obama, because you did a poor job. Anyone who is responsible for that many deaths, should not remain as president of the United States of america. We cant lock ourselves up in a basement like joe does. One of the most racist president s weve had in modern history. I am the least racist person in this room. Im not going to answer the question. Why wont you answer that question . Will you shut up, man. Then President Trump did not exactly shut up, man, but that moment encapsulated something then. Remember it, worked for biden then, it also shows why there is such wrangling over these debates, because they have new results that the Biden Campaign has basically apparently been victorious on that will limit both the crowd and the Interruption Aspects which donald trump used not so much to win the debate on its own terms but to kind of hijack it or shortcircuit it. Again, thats just an observation. If youre a super trump fan, you might say, great. They didnt like the debates anyway and he knows how to disrupt them, so to speak. If you were a biden fan or someone to trying actually listen to both side you might think, gosh, this got really out of control, so they have broken with tradition to address some of that. Some more facts for you tonight. The debates will be in atlanta, the end of june and then in september. That first debate will not have a studio audience. Again, thats part of what im emphasizing to you. The rules and format matters a lot. The Biden Campaign took the lead here, engineered this to some degree and got trump on board, two people to debate but without the fans he loves to appeal to in the room. Thats a biden demand. This also bypasses the Bipartisan Commission that has organized these debates for many, many decades. It ends that tradition, and as with our washington traditions there are people who are invested in them because they benefit from them and are a part of this and say we cant change this and there are people who say this is new, its a risk, to do this without the commission and its sort of structural, historical advantages, but clearly the Biden Campaign thinks this is the better way to go and the reporting is, they talked to the commission about doing other things and they found what was an unwilling collaborative partner, and just as weve seen this partner deal with other institutions. They have had a running back and forth with the New York Times, a running back and forth with the commission. There are a lot of people around biden who are clearly trying to send a message to the washington powers at be, they dont need you. They dont need you like they used to, and they will cut you out if they have to. As for what trump is up to, remember. If you are up traditionally and you dont care what anyone thinks you avoid debates. That is what some incumbents in certain races have done. Theres a president ial debate tradition, but in senate races around the country this is done ad hoc. If youre up ten points and youre the incumbent, you usually skip debates. Thats kind of politics 101. Donald trump was a former president running in his primary, and he knew he didnt have debates. They had to downside it. It was recent. We lived through it. Trump didnt do any debates against the republican rivals in the primaries. The broader context here is a matchup that has problems for both sides. Again, when youre the incumbent president , you get a lot of coverage, criticism and youth any and thats how it dud be, but for all of the discussion of joe biden and the economy and the middle east and the International Problems and a lot of valid criticisms and concerns about him and his ten tour, the politics of of this are he doesnt want to be just be assessed only on his own record all year when the question is always in life and in politics is compared to what . And the truth is, i just mentioned some of the factors of why there isnt great enthusiasm for joe biden. He doesnt have 60 approval ratings, but there actually isnt much enthusiasm for either of these candidates, both of whom who have been in the white house and both well known by voters. We have seen for many months most americans actually dont want this rematch at all. And trump, who how now been running unopposed since he became the presumptive nominee of his party, is still losing, among people who show up in republican primaries, some open, some close. You can see the numbers since haley dropped out and since he was presumptive, its not 5 , 6 , 7 , its double digits in big red states like west virginia, that are big red like mostly republican and key swing states in pennsylvania at 17 . Arizona, another swing state, 20 . Those are people showing up to republican primaries and choosing something other than trump. I can tell you right now if he only gets 80 of those kind of republican votes in the general, he will lose. But theres a long way to involve. A significant share of republicans though basically are still trying to figure out whether this is what they want to go with. Remember, ive said this before, but its true. If youre saying, okay, ari. Dont people know these are the only choices in the major parties. Dont people know this is what were dealing with. Short answer is no. Not everyone follows closely and not everyone remembers when nikki haley dropped out or how were counting down in the newsroom like we are. Republicans say the newspaper you see on your screen will go down, that the antitrump vote will go away, that they will come home, but the biden side of this, the reason they want the early debates they think honestly lackluster numbers will go up when compared to trump, compared to the guy on trial. Compared to the guy if you follow the news that is saying things more autocratic and blatantly dictatorial than anything he said leading up to january 6 which is really saying something. The current president , meanwhile, has been making his regular appearances at campaign and government events while trump has been in court every day. Governor romney was asked about this today. I told you that it broke today. Heres what he said about how it will go. The image that comes to mind is the two old men on the muppets. Statler and waldorf. Thats what comes to mind, but i think there will be a huge audience for these debates. As the old saying goes. Waca, waca, waca. We do know the old muppets. Shoutout to them. We do know the old candidates. Shoutout to them. Nothing wrong with being old. Usually just means youre alive and have experience, and if there is going to be a giant voting bloc that only wants candidates under 40 for president they will be disappointed. These are the current choices of the two parties. We live in a twoparty system. If you watch this program weve covered problems with the twoparty system and why there should be more choices and a different system and had candidates on from third and other parties, but none of them so far this year in the numbers have demonstrated anything like a perot level factor, and he didnt ultimately win either. These could be the two choices. Again, the news tonight when it comes to the debate, the muppets had a large audience, and the debates tend to have an even larger one. In our balkanized polarized era when people go to the different concerns of the internet and watch different tv channels, true up to a point, there are certain big events in sports and politics that do bring the whole country back together, maybe not agreeing together, but watching something together. They used to call it the monoculture when everybody actually listens to the same beatles albums so when you talk about it, youre discussing the same album rather than one versions quanon lie. The first debate, thats what it was like. 73 Million People watched that debate itself, plus tens of millions more watching clips. That meant that 100 million plus people in a short amount of time could actually discuss the same set of facts. Imagine that, america. Almost downright Old Fashioned in a good way. So why did the Biden Campaign make this move . Why did they make it now . Why are they up strategically even as some say they are lagging in some of the key states . We have two absolute political pros with us, Mark Mckinnon and joe trip, and were back in just 90 seconds, no cap. D we re backt 90 seconds, no cap ou have chronic kidney disease, there are places youd like to be. Like here. And here. Not so much here. Farxiga reduces the risk of Kidney Failure which can lead to dialysis. Farxiga farxiga can cause serious side effects, including ketoacidosis that may be fatal, dehydration, Urinary Tract or genital Yeast Infections and low blood sugar. A rare, lifethreatening bacterial infection in the skin of the perineum could occur. Stop taking farxiga and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of this infection, an allergic reaction, or ketoacidosis. When you have chronic kidney disease, its time to ask your doctor for farxiga. Because there are places you want to be. If you cant afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. Farxiga donald trump lost two debates to me in 2020. Since then he hasnt shown up for a debate. Now hes acting like he wants to debate again. Well, make my day, pal. Ill even do it twice. So lets pick the dates, donald. I hear youre free on wednesdays. Free on wednesdays. That is the one day when Donald Trumps criminal trial is not in session. Free on wednesdays is the new trial burn. Of course, it only works if youre running against someone who is facing criminal trial no. Other president ial candidate has ever done this, run during a trial. Now, we have with us as mentioned two pros in this whole landscape of president ial politics and debates. Joe trippi, democratic strategist, Senior AdviserLincoln Project and worked on many campaigns, including the Dean Campaign and marc mckin owen, adviser to george w. Bush and cocreator of the circus and try to be fair with Trump Officials on this week and Boyden Firnlgts but i have to say mark has a better hat on than you. He does, and i would agree with that. Mark, this both matters for the reasons i said. Its one of the only times where the whole country sees the same thing in politics. How rare is that . It did help biden last time. No idea who it will help this time, so speak to us both about that aspect, that almost oldfashioned idea of us experiencing something together and the pure politics of it. The biden folks obviously thought even before the trial outcome is clear that they needed to do something, and these how they want to shake it up. I think this is the smartest thing that bidens campaign has done yet, but strategically, tactically, on every level. It was not sustainable the notion that biden could go the whole campaign and not debate ultimately, he would have to. You cant run for president and not debate. It shows weakness and all kinds of problems. What would have happened it would have been months and months of stories of Biden Dodging the debate, trying to get out of it, and and by doing this, he puts it on his terms. It looks it it it communicates enormous confidence and enormous strength. By the way, as joe knows, the most important asset can you have as a candidate for president is the perception of strength, and if youre not debating it shows weakness. If youre the one that throws down the gauntlet, that shows strength, and i love that it you know, it clearly caught the Trump Campaign off guard by doing this. He does it on his terms. He bypasses the commission and keeps rfk out of the debate, does it on his terms. Does it without an audience. Just on every level this is a Master Stroke of strategy for the campaign. Do you think they were worried that rfk might meet the Commission Threshold and go to the perot threshold. We had rfk on the show recently. He was very bullish on his own chances. His polling hasnt been as good as it is in his mind, but do you think that was a factor . Absolutely. I mean, theres no question that the debates are the most important time during the president ial campaign. You know, as you said, theres 75 Million People that watched that last one. I think this one will blot numbers out of the water, 100 million plus. An opportunity for someone like rfk to get huge exposure and now he wont get it. The Biden Campaign traffic is Suffocate Rfk an deny him oxygen. Joe . Thats right. Mark, this was brilliant, really smart strategy for the Biden Campaign. It does show strength. It also boxed trump in. Ill debate you anytime, anywhere, anyplace. They had him. How could he say no to two debates wherever biden wanted to have them and under whatever rules biden wanted with no audience in the first one at least, so i think that the second thing, is look, i dont know whether rfk would have call 2350id or not, mostly because forget about the percentage that you need to get to. Im not sure hes going to be on enough ballots hell be on plenty of ballot, but im not sure enough to win 270 electoral votes. I asked him about that. When he was on here. He was on about four states. He said they could get to ten immediately, had a strategy, but they werent at 30 or 40 in the last month, yeah. Yeah, so i think lock, i still think this was about making it a binary race immediately as soon as possible. Whether that how much that impacted, rfk impacted the decision, biden the Biden Campaign knows that they benefit from making this Trump Versus Biden and that contrast that you talked about, ari, that has always through 2020, 2022 and and i think in 2024, that contrast has benefited biden and democrats. I mean, the contrast between trump and maga and and biden and democrats has benefited biden, and those the debate in 2020, the first one in particular, i was looking at focus groups back then, and the number of women i mean, undecided women, republicanleaning women, who were who were disappointed in trump because of his abrasiveness, the way he carried himself and were mildly surprised, positively about biden, was remarkable. I mean, i really do think the debates really helped shape that contrast. Let me play some of that, because, mark, i mentioned this in our setup and i really mean it. You go on the internet which is a wonderful place to connect and learn things. When i was growing up, we didnt have total internet saturation, and now can you learn something about a village in africa that you never know. Its amazing, and yet its also just this endless pile of ignorant hate, including a