Alongside andrea mitchell. Our continuing coverage will continue with jose diazbalart next. Good afternoon, great to be with you. Im jose diazbalart in for katy tur. It has been a roladex of witnesses. The director of oval office operations, Madeleine Westerhout is on the witness stand. During her time she was known as trumps gate keeper. Westerhouts testimony comes after Stormy Daniels second round on the stand earlier today. Daniel was grilled on the details of the alleged sexual encounter and the 130,000 payment that followed. I want to start with whats happening right now inside the courtroom. Joining us from outside the New York City courthouse is Nbc News National CorrespondentYasmin Vossoughian, criminal defense attorney, and msnbc legal analyst, danny cevallos, and new York Law School professor and former manhattan assistant district attorney, rebecca. Bring us up to speed on whats happening now. Reporter im not a lawyer. Im trying to be one on tv. The way im seeing this, and the terms are not lawyerly. The way im seeing this as an assembly line, what theyre establishing after having this kind of huge witness that is Stormy Daniels. Some of the more important witnesses were hearing from are the ones building the case for the prosecution and getting to the key of what the case is about, right, which is the document, falsifying the Business Records, and talking about those signed checks by former president donald trump, and paying off or paying Michael Cohen and that alleged scheme of 35,000 a month, as this retainer, donald trump put it, allies versus what Michael Cohen says was his payoff because he had paid Stormy Daniels 130,000. Some of the names we have heard from, ending with Madeleine Westerhout, who were hearing from right now in the courtroom. We heard from rhona graff. We heard from deborah tarasoff. You have her cutting these checks in trump tower, walking the checks up to for instance rhona graff when donald trump was not then president to get some of the checks signed by donald trump in his office in trump tower. When donald trump assumed the white house, assumed the presidency, those checks were sent by Tracey Menzies to the white house and thats where Madeleine Westerhout picks things up. She was the Personal Assistant at that point to donald trump, as shes explaining in the document right now in this testimony, right outside the oval office. She would have been the one, jose, to have taken the checks from the fedex envelope. Walks them in to donald trump in the oval office. As we well know now from all of the books read, who have read portions of his books, he signs every check. He knows every number coming out of these checks. Walks those checks into donald trump and donald trump subsequently signing these checks, eventually to reimburse and or pay Michael Cohen. So they are kind of setting up this scheme, really, to lead to proving that donald trump falsified these documents. And they are right now really kind of honing in on just how much access and Information Westerhout had about and access with donald trump. If i could, let me go right into some of the questioning that the prosecution is establishing. How long did you work at the white house. Yes, two and a half years. Did you sit in the same desk in the outer oval the entire two and a half years . I switched desks at some point, she says, further away, had a line of sight to the resolute desk. Helpful for the president and i to communicate. The desk where the president sits in the oval office. Did you develop an understanding of his work habits, i did, yes, she answers. Familiar with the way he used social media and interacted with his family . Westerhout, yes. His work habits . Yes, he likes to be in person or on the feen. What was his preferred method of communication. Westerhout, in person on the phone. Mangold, how many calls did he take in a day. As early as 6 00 in the morning. He would be on the phone late in the night when i went to bed because i always felt guilty about that. How did mr. Trump receive calls. Westerhout, complicated process. The president was in the oval office and had any work number. I could just patch them through to him, but if it was john smith, westerhout said, off the street calling there were operators that took calls, and there were also calls to the Situation Room for calls that were more secure. Did he ever use his computers or emails. Westerhout, not to my knowledge. He wanted hard copies, so as we continue to kind of listen in and essentially hear through our reporters there inside the courthouse and in the courtroom. What is, danny, this line of questioning trying to establish . Its trying to establish knowledge of Donald Trumps daytoday activities, how he was involved, whether he was hands on, whether he was a Micro Manager. Were going to hear questioning about how he conducted his day and business, and really what were going to get to short is how the process went when she would bring checks to sign, specifically the Michael Cohen checks that yasmin shows us on the screen, and that process and how involved he was, and then when we get to cross, i expect that the defense will have to explore whether or not was he distracted . Did he sign things without looking at them, and try to paint donald trump as somebody who was intensely involved at every step. Madeleine westerhout, by the way, we have spent a day and a half on Stormy Daniels whose importance in terms of evidence is minimal compared to the flashy nature of her testimony. Weve got a witness that maybe some people have heard of. She may not be on the stand that long. But her testimony in my view is arguably much more critical than the day and a half we spent on Stormy Daniels. And now what theyre asking her is, you know, how he spent his time, and westerhout said he spent most of the time when he was there working, reading, going over documents in the dining room. That was really his working office. Was there an Organization System there . To my understanding the president knew where things were and he kept things organized but he did have a lot of papers. I found that he always knew where things were. What does that tell you right there . The prosecution is trying to establish that the former president himself was involved in these payments, and so all of this is about connecting him to the documents that he signed. Trying to make it clear that he didnt just delegate. He didnt sign things without thinking and knowing. There was an organization and system to it. It is specifically what youre referring to. The question is he the type of person who paid attention to details. Westerhout, in my experience, yes. Did he use an automated signature or sign by himself . Westerhout, he signed by himself. Did he use a particular type of pen. Sharpies or felt tip, did he typically read things before signing them. She says, yes. Did mr. Trump use social media while he was in the white house . Westerhout, he did, yes. Primarily twitter, now called x. Did mr. Trump post tweets himself using that twitter handle. Once again, this is someone with firsthand knowledge of the president s use of his time down to who and how he used the social media accounts, clearly shes saying that he was very on top of that as he was about every single document. So earlier we learned in just today that these checks would be fedexed overnight to the white house. If im the defense, im thinking, weve got an angle here. We can frame this as the president became the president of the United States. The leader of the free world. The guy was busy. This is what the defense is going to try and argue. That when these checks came in, even if he did sign them. He wasnt really looking. He wasnt paying attention. That is what the prosecution knows is coming, and thats why they book ended this. How they ended up at the white house, and now were hearing the other transaction, how Madeline Wester house takes the checks in, gets them signed, and i expect her testimony is going to be good for the prosecution. Otherwise why else would they have called her. Were going to hear that donald trump, when he signed the checks, that he did it personally. That hes involved. Maybe if he had questions, he would raise the questions. Maybe well hear that kind of testimony. This is just locking in how the transactions worked, to make it increasingly and increasingly less likely, this is something that flew totally under trumps radar. Rebecca, Micro Manager is the word that comes to mind, when one sees Donald Trumps focus on things. Heres the line of questioning going on right now about his process of tweeting from the real donald trump account. If dan scavino wasnt available, the president would call me in and dictate a tweet to me. I would go back to the computer and type it up and print it out, and give it back to him so he could go over it. He would dictate, type it up, print a hard copy, take to him for review. Hed edit sometimes the hard copy, ask to make additional changes and show it to him. He liked to use Exclamation Points. Once again this is someone who looks at every single word, every single period, every single exclamation point. Im curious what the defense does about this. It makes him look good. Hes involved in his work, diligent, hes a hard worker, and so they obviously have to set up on some level. This was running below his radar. They have to do it without undermining their clients sense of ego, being built up, unlike Stormy Daniels. Someone who cares about how many Exclamation Points shows you maybe the time used and the focus you used to have on some things over others may be significant. I actually take a different view. I think it doesnt make him look good. He has attention to detail, but if youre the leader of the free world, i would rather you spend time on the middle east, not whether or not your tweets are in caps or exclamation point. Tweeting is i take my phone and tweet. This was paper, print it out, come here, approve, all the while, middle east going on. I have no idea how thats being addressed. Im stepping out of legal analyst and more like a regular person on the jury, who might be thinking this is not how the president should have been spending his time, even if it was attention to detail. But it is important context, and i expect the jury is listening closely. Once again, they have called a witness who gives us a glimpse into a world we never had access to. First it was the world of the national enquirer, and no matter who the president is, finding that he moved into the dining room to do his business or they had to print out tweets to bring to him to approve. All fascinating and riveting and bad for the defense. I think its difficult for the defense to claim, if the testimony of this witness is given weight, this is somebody who got a check and signed it or one or two or three or four or monthly checks without thinking about it when hes looking at what parentheses to use. Im going right back to what were seeing inside that courtroom right now. Did he have any particular preferences to his posts. Yes, certain words he liked to capitalize, including Country Capital c. He liked to use dots for a comma, for the first year, man gold asks, would you describe that as a transition period. Westerhout, yes. She continues on to say we were all trying to learn our way around and do the best work we could for the american people. Did he ever miss things is the question that mangold asks. Westerhout, my understanding is he was attentive to things that were brought to his attention. Do you ever have questions of people at the Trump Organization, and did they have questions for you . Yes, mangold, for example, what were some of the major issues at the Trump Organization in 2017 and who were the people there. Rhona graff. And again, this is a time for the defense to be seeing this person. She worked for the president of the United States. She says that, you know, they were trying to do the best they could for the american people. This is not necessarily a person who, you know, like Stormy Daniels hates donald trump. If youre the defense, what are you looking at here to rebuttal on. I think the best that the defense can do here is to point out the limit of her knowledge and actually, as you suggest, her testimony is very detailed and suggests that she has a great deal of knowledge. Nobody knows everything, so the best that they could do is say that, you know, she wasnt there. She didnt necessarily know exactly what he was aware of when he signed this particular check, and that, you know, is poking holes in her testimony even if it isnt undermining the general point that shes making. And Yasmin Vossoughian, outside the courthouse, inside, there is a very steady clear determination Of Westerhout to talk about the how her boss at the time handled what he did on a minute by minute basis, and how concerned he was about a lot of details. Reporter we have been looking for a smoking gun. What is the smoking gun . Whos the person thats going to testify that i heard donald trump say this money was for Stormy Daniels, thats why he was paying off Michael Cohen. Logically its a problematic smoking gun. There was thought possibly with Madeleine Westerhout taking the stand that we could feasibly hear that testimony from someone like her. Maybe she overheard a Conversation Happening in the oval. Likelihood of this happening, seeing how this question and answer is going is unlikely at this point, although well never know until the end of this direct. When you ask jose about the defense, we have to consider the way in which Madeleine Westerhout left the white house. She was laid off after serving as the former president s secretary, and a Personal Assistant, i should say, and the reason why she was laid off was because of an off the record meeting that she had with journalists in talking about some things going on within the trump family and the oval office. Just kind of sharing details of the trump family and oval office. Ill be curious to see if in fact in crossexamination they mention that. They bring that up. As we have seen in the past with crossexamination, sometimes their tendency is to go after the credibility of some of these witnesses. She doesnt seem like someone whos going to be on the stand, considering the way it was she actually left her job in 2019. Danny, how are you preparing if youre in the defense . Im expecting on direct, Madeleine Westerhout is not going to say, donald trump told me, hey, im paying Michael Cohen to reimburse him for a payment to Stormy Daniels. You dont normally have that direct kind of evidence. Yes, i admit i rocked a bank. You prove your case by Circumstantial Evidence. I expect crossexamination will be short. I dont expect it to be particularly hostile. You may hear questions about the circumstances of her leaving. Im pretty sure youre going to hear some version of a question like donald trump never told you that he was aware he was signing these checks to reimburse Michael Cohen for anything to do with Stormy Daniels. He never indicated any of these checks had to do with Stormy Daniels, did he . We dont know if someone is going to testify, i did hear that conversation. That would be a smoking gun moment. If its reliable, direct evidence, if its reliable testimony, then, yes, thats very bad for trump. In most criminal cases you dont have that testimony. You may have handed him these checks. May have been there when he signed them. You dont know for sure why he was signing them or that he had any awareness they had anything to do with Stormy Daniels. Its really a limited avenue for the defense, but thats probably where theyre going to go. A limited avenue that will be probably less intense than it was with, for example, Stormy Daniels . I think so. I think things got a little bit overheated, given what was going on yesterday and earlier this morning with Stormy Daniels. I think this is the meat of the case as danny was suggesting. It isnt all that interesting. This is what theyre going to have to consider when they consider the elements of the crime. The Stormy Daniels testimony has to go to motive, which is important, but again, not as important as whether these checks were actually signed with trumps knowledge and intent, and thats whats being established in a workman like way in this system. That workman like way includes, for example, who was on Donald Trumps rolodex. What are contacts and where do you keep the contacts for friends, allies, whatever sources you have. Now the