I see it. So i tried to live up to that this morning because i knew i would be on the same screen as you. You are all wonderful, have yourselves a great day and i will see you tomorrow. Thanks for joining us. Today on velshi, Inside Donald Trump strategy as defendant candidate and why his inclination to over share his plans is more alarming than you think. Plus, movement on multiple fronts on the draconian crackdown on abortion in this country and worrying signs of what is coming next. Then, why one columbia lecturer says the school is teaching the wrong lessons. We will talk about protests and rates on College Campuses. Ended his a book so beloved by audiences that it spent eight years on the bestseller list. It is a beautiful story of resilience and survival, yet it has been targeted and beyond over and over again. The acclaimed author joins our book club to talk about her memoir, the last castle. Velshi starts now. Good morning to you, it is saturday, may 4. Week three has officially wrapped in the first criminal trial of donald trump. The Republican Partys twice impeached, four times indicted, presumptive president ial nominee. He is a former president , the first one to find himself facing criminal charges and the possibility of spending time in jail. Even though he is in this position right now, he continues to be the very same, abrasive man he has always been. Someone who thinks that the rules dont apply to him. On tuesday, the judge presiding over his criminal trial, judge merchan, ruled that trump violated his Gag Order Nine Times so far. He ordered the former president to pay a total fine of 9000 and warned that if necessary he would impose, quote, And Incarcerate Tory punishment. Trump could face more consequences next week because in addition to that ruling a hearing was held this week regarding a second set of apparent violations of the gag order. Trumps cavalier attitude where the law was evident outside the courtroom as well. On wednesday the former president held rallies in the Battleground States of wisconsin and michigan, the first he has held since his trial began in mid april. In his speeches he called judge merchan, quote, crooked and repeated is baseless allegations that President Biden weaponized the Justice System against him. While in wisconsin he also gave an eyebrow raising interview with the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel in which he refused to commit to accepting the results of the upcoming election. Quote, if everythings honest, id gladly accept the results. If its not, you have to fight for the right of the country. It is the same kind of noncommittal answer he gave leading up to the 2020 election and we know how that turned out. Four years later he continued to lie about the outcome of the election in wisconsin, despite the fact that multiple reviews have confirmed the legitimate results. Wisconsins results of been confirmed by recounts in dane and Milwaukee County that trump paid for. Court rulings, a state audit and study by the conservative legal firm, Wisconsin Institute of law and liberty, among other analysis. End quote. In addition, Time Magazine published a mustread interview this week previewing the policies and actions he would implement in a possible second term. The profile highlights his radical plan to expand the powers of the presidency in order to bypass bureaucratic red tape and other safeguards that could prevent him from enacting some of his most divisive and draconian plans. Those plans include building Migrant Detention camps and applying the military at the border and inland. He also says he would be willing to fire a u. S. Attorney who is not willing to carry out his wishes, would which is a break to the independence granted to law enforcement. Trump already tested the limits of that during his first term. He is also considering Pardoning Hundreds of supporters convicted for january 6 related crimes and he has pledged to activate the National Guard at his discretion to help cities combat crime. Contrary to what some might think, the former president is not that much of an anomaly in American Politics. While he may be unmatched in narcissism, trumpism is not a novel idea. The movement is in line with the Republicans Party southern strategy, a longterm plan in response to the Civil Rights Movement that sought to exploit racial anxieties. It is a plan that Richard Nixon leaned into for his political campaigns and his presidency. You will remember he used the phrase, silent majority, to refer to the white southerners he was trying to court and his call to Law And Order was a dog whistle opposing the protests and marches, and in the 1960s and early 70s. Ronald reagan capitalized on the same racial fears when he invoked the false and defamatory trope of the welfare queen, a term that depicted poor minorities, especially black women, into negative stereotypes. If any of that sounds familiar it is because trumpism picks up where they left off. It is something the former president acknowledged in his time interview, remarking that he believes there is, quote, a definite antiwhite feeling in this country, end quote. The southern strategy was an overwhelming success for republicans. It resulted in a Major Political realignment in america that saw white southerners shift to the gop to transform the south into a republican stronghold. It may be an uncomfortable truth, but the gop succeeded because they tapped into an antiliberal ideology that has always been a central part of American Politics and that remains true, believe it or not, to this day. Joining me now is robert kagan, a senior fellow at the Foreign Policy program at the brookings institute. They contribute in colonist contributing columnist at the Washington Post and the author of rebellion. Thank you for being with us this morning. I gave a very brief rundown of the modern history of this, but you point out in your book that the antiliberalism of trumps movement we are seeing now can be traced all the way back to the founding of the country and to the era of slavery. Yeah and i dont want to ruin your narrative, but it used to be the Democratic Party that was the leading anti Liberal Party in the country. Certainly in the first decades when it was the slaveholding south and later under jim crow. When you think about what has happened politically, it used to be that these antiliberal forces were fairly evenly divided between the two parties. You had the white, southern, antiLiberal Party and you had white protestants in the Republican Party. What has happened since the second world war, and it did not begin with reagan, it goes back further than that. It is precisely the sorting you are talking about. Basically the Republican Party became the gathering of all antiliberal forces in america. So even though those forces are a minority in our country, they have the whip head in the Republican Party today which is really a novel situation. What is the root of the Anti Liberalism . Fundamentally most of us learn that this country was founded on liberal principles and those are the types of things written into the constitution, so why is this sentiment so strong and pervasive in American History . The founders understood from the very beginning that even though they had established universal principles, this idea that all human beings, including blacks at the time, they believe, enjoy these rights, yet we also had a system of slavery. So a significant portion of the country on racial issues and religious issues who basically resisted, from the beginning, the founders liberal principles. The principles in the declaration of independence. I think most liberals have this idea that over time people are educated, they live in a good society. Maybe prosperity helps, et cetera. We are continually shocked to discover that these forces are still present, still very rural and 100 years after the civil war, the south was practically in rebellion in the 1950s after brown v board of education. We thought it had all gone away, but as we see it is a very powerful force today, even now. And yet we keep getting surprised by it. In the beginning of your book you write that the institutions to safeguard liberal democratic government cannot survive when half the country does not believe in the Core Principles that undergird the american system of government. The president ial election of 2024, therefore, will not be the usual contest between republicans and democrats. It is a referendum on whether the liberal democracy out of the revolution could continue. Robert, those are very high stakes. I think they are important and i agree with you. Do you think that the broad electorate perceives the selection the way you have articulated . For a long time, i think like many of us, i thought republicans didnt really understand the threat that trump poses. I dont think that is true. He makes it clear the threat that he poses to our liberal democracy every single day, most recently in the Time Magazine interview, but in every other way as well. I think people know this is a real risk and the sad thing is, they are willing to take that risk. Some of them actively do want to change our system. I think the core of the trump movement, which is white nationalist, White Christian nationalist, they really do want a change in the system. A lot of other, what we used to call normal republicans, seem perfectly willing to go along with this and that gets to something that Thomas Jefferson worried about, that Abraham Lincoln wrote and give a speech about in 1838, which was to say that the American People have lost their commitment to these fundamental principles that they fought for in the revolution and i think that tells us. They understand people are not necessarily always engaged in the fervor for liberalism and i think we are at one of those times where people have forgotten, especially white people, i would say, have forgotten how many of them used liberalism or their ancestors to get where they are today. People forget that irish americans were not regarded as white when they arrived in the United States in the 19th century and prejudice against italianamericans, et cetera. Weve lost, too Many Americans i think have lost a sense of how important these values are. Take us to school for a moment. I think this is clear to our audience, but conservative political ideology is not anti liberal. Were talking about something else. Draw me a line between being conservative in America Today and being antiliberal. It is an interesting question, how much there is a line. I used to think there was a clear line. In theory a lot of conservatives over the years have portrayed themselves as being defenders of the founders liberalism. There conservative in trying to conserve those principles against the left or what have you. Then there has also been a tradition of antiliberal conservatives. It is a paradox. I think Ronald Reagan personally was what i would call a liberal conservative. He grew up as a big fan of fdr. He was a truman democrat. I think in his heart he was basically a defender of american liberalism, but he brought into the government with him a lot of antiliberal forces, which then germinated and have become the movement that we see today. Sometimes it is not so easy to make a clear dividing line. Robert, good to talk to you. I know we just scratched the surface of your important book, but we appreciate you joining us. Robert kagan is a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution and a contributing columnist with the Washington Post. Also the author of the new book, rebellion, how Anti Liberalism is tearing america apart again. Coming up, we continue the conversation about how donald trump is coping in the courtroom and on the Campaign Trail in the unprecedented situation america finds itself in, later in the show. Plus, a crucial Abortion Case went before the Supreme Court last weekend flew below the radar. We dont know how the Supreme Court will rule, but the arguments alone give us plenty to be concerned about. And the band book club. On the agenda, the Jeannette Walls memoir, the glass castle, which spent years on the New York Times bestsellers list. In, you are surrounded by people who are all younger than you. 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A highlevel delegation is in cairo for talks, adding that they are traveling with, quote, a positive spirit, end quote. Egypt has been leading efforts to mediate between israel and hamas and reports indicate that a multi phase deal is on the table and has been agreed to in principle. The proposal includes three phases. The first would last for 40 days and include acs infighting, the release of remaining female hostages held in gaza, a release of Palestinian Prisoners held by israel, a withdrawal of troops from parts of gaza, and an increase in humanitarian aid allowed into gaza. The second phase would allow another season fighting and the release of more hostages and prisoners. The final phase would include the return of the remains of deceased tossed is, the release of more Palestinian Prisoners and the start of a multiyear Reconstruction Plan in gaza. It comes as a senior official said as part of the deal they will demand a guarantee from intermediaries that israel wont resume fighting following the release of the remaining hostages. An israeli official told nbc news this morning that israel will not agree to end the war as part of an agreement to release our hostages, while vowing to go through with a long threatened incursion into the Southern Gaza city of rafah, quote, whether or not there will be a temporary pause. So there is a lot going on there, but there does seem to be some movement. We will continue to follow these developments and bring you the latest. Up next, the Supreme Court is currently weighing whether states should be allowed to deny Abortion Care to women facing severe, life altering medical complications, All In The Name Of protecting nonviable pregnancies. The great Melissa Murray will be here next to impact the latest chapter in the post road dystopia. Ia. In real time. jen so we partner with verizon. 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