Good friday morning, it is 10 00 eastern. Im Ana Cabrera Reporting from new york. We begin with Breaking News in a courtroom in manhattan where Witness Testimony has just resumed in Donald TrumpsHush Money Trial, and back on the stand is the forensic specialist from the manhattan d. A. s office who inspected data from Michael Cohens phone including Text Messages and secret recordings. Nbcs Vaughn Hillyard is standing by for us outside the courthouse. Also with us former u. S. Attorney, former State Court Judge carol lam, and State Attorney for palm beach county, florida, Dave Aronberg. Vaughn, start us off here. The judge started everything by pushing back on some of trumps comments yesterday about his potential testimony in this case. What can you tell us . Reporter right. Trump has repeatedly bemoaned the fact that this gag order has been placed on him preventing him from speaking about witnesses as this pertains to this criminal proceeding, but also the jury. But donald trump notably when he walked out of the court yesterday took another step in what he claimed the gag order prevented him from doing. Take a listen. Im not allowed to testify because this judge, hes totally conflicted, has me under an unconstitutional gag order. Nobodys ever had that before, and we dont like it, and its not fair. Does the gag order stop you from snefg. Testifying . The gag order is not for testifying. The gag order stops me from talking about people and responding when they say things about me. We have people saying things about me and im not allowed to respond. Reporter donald trump has repeatedly suggested that he wanted to testify in this criminal trial in defense of himself. And there you saw him yesterday leaving the courthouse claiming that the gag order prevented him from doing so, which led judge merchan immediately upon taking the bench this morning with donald trump there seated making it clear that the gag order did not prevent donald trump from testifying, that the gag order only explicitly prevented him from speaking about these witnesses and about the jury, outside of this courtroom, which would put the ball back in Donald Trumps corner to testify if he so desires to do so. And well talk more about whats happening with this current witness, but before we do that, let me bring it to our lawyers here on set with me. Carol, when you hear this sort of mixed messaging coming from trump over potential testimony, the judge actually then addressing it in the courtroom, what do you make of it . Its not entirely clear whether trump just misspoke and he was talking about how he cant talk to the press about this trial or whether hes saying that he actually cant testify in his own defense, but the reason judge merchan came out so strongly this morning was because it is his responsibility to make sure that this trial proceeds in accordance with all the laws and judges are extremely protective of a defendants right to defend himself fully, and that means taking the Witness Stand if they want to, so any suggestion by the trump side or by donald trump himself that he is not being permitted to testify is something that the judge is going to react very strongly to. Even before this trial got underway, there was that hearing about what trump could be asked about if he were to take the stand, and there are a host of issues, dave, that he could be questioned about. So the question today is does he want to testify . No way. And i think carols great, but i think shes giving donald trump too much credit because i think trump was lying there. I think he is trying to find a way out. He wants to tell his supporters that i want to testify but this judge is forcing me not to. So this is part of grievance because nothing fuels maga like grievance. The other thing is that his lawyer, not in that clip, in a different clip, todd blanche seemed to nod in agreement with trump. Thats why i was wondering if judge merchan is going to call him up and say are you in agreement with trump that the gag order prevents him from testifying . Because let me disabuse both of you of that notion, a judge cannot lie about the court outside of the courthouse. So vaughn, talk to us about this other issue that came up even before the Witness Testimony happened today where theyre discussing who could take the stand next and the defense pushing back on potential evidence that would be submitted during that testimony. Explain. Reporter right. Theres a clue as to who this next marquee witness could be, and that was because there was deliberation before the jury came in over evidence that could be brought forward before the jury, and, again, it had to do with the access Hollywood Tape, and now the prosecution wanted to bring forward the photo as well as what the initial front page of the Washington Post online was on the day that the Access Hollywood story dropped in the Washington Post. And youll recall that judge merchan had previously ruled that the video would not be admissible to be played before the jury and also doubled down by saying that the photo that was showing donald trump with the woman who he was talking about and billy bush is not entered into the record. The reason why this let us potentially know who the next witness could be is because todd blanche, Donald Trumps attorney pushed back against allowing this to be admissible saying he anticipated a witness being brought to the stand later today who would be discussing the access Hollywood Tape. Of course hope hicks was at the Pivotal Point of these deliberations in early october when that story dropped. She was working as Press Secretary at the time, and we know that she was involved in conversations at least at the bare minimum connecting donald trump and Michael Cohen in the weeks after about the potential payments to Stormy Daniels. We could very well see hope hicks potentially based off of todd blanches own foreshadowing take the stand in a matter of minutes or hours, ana. Okay, and so dave, what do you i guess think about how the defense is trying to get out in front of this, and do you think that the judge is going to accept what theyre asking for . Well, first off, i think hope hicks will be a powerful witness. She has no axe to grind. Shes in trumps inner circle, and shes cooperating with the prosecution. So shes going to provide muchneeded corroboration for Michael Cohen. As far as the authentication of records, cell phone videos, normally thats done via stiplakes. Stipulation. The fact that this Guy Doug Daus is on the stand is a bit bizarre. This is the trump team doing what the client wants, try and poke holes in the equivalent of the deep state, saying there are doctored texts. This is normally stipulated to. Its supposed to be boring testimony, not to be grilled on Cross Examination. Right, and well talk about doug daus and his testimony in just a second, but just the strategy, carol, that theyre trying to prevent some of this evidence had from being entered into evidence, right . And theyre questioning the authenticity of it, whether it had been manipulated. I mean, even this morning we had trumps lawyers arguing about trumps truth social posts being submitted as evidence saying they shouldnt be admitted as evidence, that theyre pure hearsay and without a proper foundation. I mean, these are his own words on his own social media platform. Yeah, what the defense is doing here is theyre taking shots wherever they can. Theyre going to throw everything up against the wall and hope something sticks with some juror. In todays world, especially now we see all this debate about ai and what can be done with videos and social media, people representing things that are not actually true. The defense as dave rightly pointed out. These used to be pieces of evidence that would just come through stipulation of both parties. Those are our bank records, yes, that is a video of the defendant. There was no issue there, but today even if there is no issue, theyre going to try to make an issue out of it, and theyre making the prosecution run through all the paces, putting on all the foundational witnesses to talk about essentially the chain of custody that they know why these documents and videos and photos are true and correct, very tedious testimony, but theyre hoping theres some juror in that jury room whos going to say, wait, these could be faked. How do we know . The prosecution didnt really prove that it wasnt faked, and that is going to be part of their defense. Its poking holes at the governments prosecution. And so, vaughn, the witness who started Testimony Yesterday, doug daus, hes this forensic data analyst, hes back on the stand this morning and hes facing Cross Examination, what are we hearing . Reporter right, and i think its important to emphasize yet again that this Cross Examination is taking place with the jury sitting there, and they are questioning the authenticity of some of these recordings. Number one suggesting that in January Of 2018 when the Manhattan District Attorneys Office first acquired the two cell phones of Michael Cohen that there was four days between the point that it went from the hands of one of their investigators who was later suspended and left the d. A. s office because of his cozy relationship with Michael Cohen to the point that it got to the forensic analyst, four days. So asking this forensic analyst from the d. A. s office, the defense team for donald trump is suggesting, you know, potentially data could have been tampered over those four days because it was not secured. The data analyst saying that is correct. The second line of inquiry currently taking place with Data Analysts is over that September 2016 recorded conversation between Michael Cohen and donald trump regarding that 150,000 payment to Karen Mcdougal, and very explicitly, the team for donald trump is asking, quote, i listened to the file cuts off midconversation to which daus, the forensic analyst said towards the end i listened to the whole thing, and it cuts off during the conversation. To which bove responded, you dont know how long the conversation is. Daus, the forensic analyst responds, no. Which gets at the heart of the question what did the rest of that conversation look like and did Michael Cohen intentionally only provide half of the potential conversation, and then, again, with the jury sitting there could leave doubts in their head about whether Michael Cohen recorded the entire truth. Theyre trying to soften up Michael Cohen. They know hes going to be a key witness. Theyre trying to prebut him to say, look, you cant trust this guy. Thats been the theme of their case while the prosecution is doing the opposite with the corroboration. Carol and i can agree on the fact that normally these witnesses dont get grilled on Cross Examination. You stipulate, you admit it, and then you argue the evidence when it comes out, but not the person whos a custodian or a data expert who just extracts it. They are going to try to poke holes whenever they can. It has a double benefit for trump in that it helps delay this matter. You know thats trumps m. O. , delay, delay, delay. It also keeps them off the Campaign Trail, and hes complaining about being in court, so this is his own lawyer, his legal team that is making these proceedings go longer by Going Forward with this line of questioning to an expert like doug daus. Help us understand the utility of this kind of expert in the prosecutions presentation here, carol, because his testimony pretty dry, its just saying theyre verifying the authenticity of them and sort of the chain of custody, right . Look, its a double edged sword for the defense to challenge it to the extent that they are because what it permits the prosecution to do is actually show the jury that, yeah, we do have our act together. We have the witnesses. If you want to give us a hard time and make us put them all on the stand, well do it, and youll see that we act as a professional office and we have people who document things correctly, it can make the office look more professional. The risk, of course, is that there is a slip somewhere or something that they cant quite prove up and then the defense will try to make hay of that. So this is what the prosecution has to do if the defense is not going to agree or stipulate as dave notes to the admission of that evidence. You cant just stick documents or photos or videotapes in without some sort of foundation, some sort of support for why those are authentic. Carol, dave, vaughn, everybody please stick around, and at home, please stay with us. Were going to continue to follow Witness Testimony this morning. Well bring you all the big moments, the twists that are coming from the courtroom. Plus, he hasnt taken the stand yet but has gotten a lot of attention already. Michael cohens credibility taking big hits from fellow prosecution witnesses. Whats the impact . Chblt also ahead, another anticipated witness that some legal analysts say could be the most damaging to trump because hope hicks witnessed just about everything. Were back in 60 seconds. Erythig were back in 60 seconds nothing dims my light like a migraine. To trum witnessed just about everything. Were back in 60 seconds. Most d hope hicks witnessed just about everything. Were back in 60 seconds. 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Hes more to us than just a boss. Hes a mentor. Hes a sage. Hes like family. And there was Michael Cohen describing his former boss in 2016 before donald trump won the presidency. Now, more than seven years later, the now deteriorated relationship between the former president and his former fixer is being laid bare in court, including explosive testimony and recordings from the time it began to unravel when an angry cohen learned he would not be going to the white house. Nbcs Vaughn Hillyard is back with us from the courthouse, and also joining us now former federal prosecutor and msnbc legal analyst paul butler. Vaughn, walk us through that explosive testimony about this phone call and how it went over in court . Reporter right, this was the prosecutions witness, Keith Davidson working as the attorney for Stormy Daniels, somebody who is intimately voefd with the negotiations with Michael Cohen, and clearly, for the jury, they were able to hear that Keith Davidson was somebody who had a longstanding, albeit difficult relationship with Michael Cohen. And in a particular phone call in the aftermath of the 2016 election before donald trump was formally sworn in and while Michael Cohen was allegedly still waiting for that 130,000 reimbursement from donald trump, he also opened up to Keith Davidson, Which Davidson told the jury, told the prosecution about that phone call. And just take a look at this transcript here. This is what he said that cohen told him on the phone, quote, jesus christ, can you effing believe im not going to washington after everything ive done for that effing guy. I cant believe im not going to washington. Ive saved that guys so many times you dont even know. That effing guys not even paid the 130,000 back. This hits at the heart of potentially this was during Cross Examination here that for the defense here laying out that Michael Cohen simply sought revenge here at some point i