But we have a very opinion not necessarily grounded in fact. When testimony does resume, Keith Davidson, the former lawyer for Stormy Daniels will be back on the stand to continue crossexamination that has gotten heated to say the least. Trumps Defense Attorney trying to portray davidson as an extortionist as a business in sleaze, he brought up other stories involving hulk hogan, Lindsay Lohan and charlie sheen. Yasmin vossoughian is reporting from outside the courthouse. Also Chuck Rosenberg, former fbi official and msnbc analyst. Duncan loven, managing partner of loven and associates. Danny cevallos is still with me in studio. He is a criminal Defense Attorney and an msnbc legal analyst. Duncan, im going to start with you as the prosecutor in the house, and new to our panel, what has to happen this afternoon . How do they move this case forward now . I think the prosecutors need to continue to hammer home the two main points, which is why this testimony is so riveting and important. I thought the crossexamination was largely ineffective. Theyre trying to portray this lawyer a sleazebag, who peddles in his clients Sexual Lee Say liaisons for money. Michael cohen wasnt acting on his own. He was a conduit to donald trump. What they want to show is a conspiracy to violate Campaign Finance laws, and they need to show the defendant himself was responsible for it. Number one, hammer home that Michael Cohen wasnt acting on his own and this isnt about covering affairs so his wife didnt find out, this is about the election. If they continue to rehabilitate him on that, they will be fine. Thats really all they need to do. What did you think, chuck, so far today was the biggest points that the prosecution scored . To duncans point, what the government has to do, prosecutors have to do is stick to the central theme and bring their case back to their central facts. The allegations and the indictment, thats what they have to prove. I think most of the cross, and i agree with duncan on this as well, of mr. Davidson was, you know, somewhere between ineffective and beside the point. Is he in a commendable business . Absolutely not. Not something i would ever want to do with my life professionally. But this is how he makes his living. The jurors get that. The government elicited it. The defense is sort of hammering home, but it doesnt distract from the central themes of the case that there was a plot, a conspiracy, a scheme, if you will, chris, To Falsify Books and records of the Trump Organization to conceal or commit election fraud. As long as the government stays on that track, and i imagine they will, i think theyre going to be okay. I want to talk about a couple of people who we believe will be witnesses. Were pretty sure that Michael Cohen will be a witness, but who have not been on the stand yet. Danny, Michael Cohen, by our count hes been mentioned over a thousand times so far in this trial. Its a familiar and popular story from the bible to today, the repentance are center. Thats the way that Michael Cohen has tried to rebuild himself, rebuild essentially his character. If the jury obviously buys that or at least believes him, it obviously would be very helpful to the prosecution. Let me remind some folks of the ways in which Michael Cohen has attempted this. I regret the day i said yes to mr. Trump. I regret all the help and support i gave him along the way. I am ashamed of my own failings. I have made my mistakes and i have owned them publicly. I cannot make anybody believe me. All i can do is to make amends with my family and with the country and to tell the truth. I will not cease my commitment to law enforcement. I will continue to provide information, testimony, documents and my full cooperation. So maybe he does a little bit of that on the stand, who knows. But what we saw today, for example, when it was very clear that the people involved in that deal did not have any certainty at all that he was actually going to come through, they didnt trust him. He was called a jerk. He was called hopeless. I think at one point they laughed about him when they were talking about him. How tough is it to convince a jury that even if all of those things are true, even if the people didnt trust him, didnt believe him that what he says on the stand is true. Its not tough. And case in point, we have two other prosecutors on this panel who undoubtedly have used cooperating witnesses. They have been used since time and memorial because they work. The fact that they have credibility problems, morality problems, Reliability Problems are things that Defense Attorneys like me have complained about for millennia, but at the same time, prosecutors use them because theyre effective, because jurors can look past the flaws in a human and find them believable and thats exactly what the people are going to say in their closing. Its no surprise that in the prosecutions case in chief, Michael Cohen is getting hit with shrapnel. The prosecution doesnt mind that because they know if they dont do it now, the defense is going to bring it up that hes unreliable, not to be trusted and all of these other typical attacks and i promise you that when the prosecution stands up in their closing, theyre going to give some version of the Closing Argument that Michael Cohen may not be a trust worthy person. Maybe you wouldnt trust Michael Cohen to watch your kids, but hes come here, hes barred your soul and when it comes to criminals, criminals hang out with other criminals. We didnt choose donald trump, i almost got through it. Michael cohen was chosen by donald trump. So thats what we had to do as the prosecutors, we had to go get a criminal to catch a criminal, and we can match up the transcript with what i just spit out right there and see if its pretty close because it will be. There was also a lot of talk about Stormy Daniels who is at the center of this or at least starts them leading toward the charges that are filed against donald trump. During questioning, Keith Davidson refused to accept the prosecutions characterization of Stormy Daniels payment as hush money. He pushed back against this hard. He instead called it a consideration. He kept saying they were pushing and pushing and pushing him. They kept saying, what would you call it, a consideration . Is that more for him or does that have legal bearing on this . I dont think it matters one way or the other, to be honest. Lets take a step back. This case, you might get lost in it a little bit, and be forgiven for remembering this is a case about falsifying Business Records. Its a misdemeanor and the d. A. s office didnt charge it as a misdemeanor in part because the statute of limitations had lapsed. They charged as a felony because falsifying Business Records with the intent to defraud and the intent to commit or conceal another crime is a felony. The other crime here being a conspiracy to violate the New York State election law statute that deals with a conspiracy to violate the federal election laws. That is a mouthful. Thats what these jurors have to get through. Thats why were in conspiracy land here. Were talking about a conspiracy, and frankly, the d. A. s main theory here is that the money sent to Stormy Daniels is a Campaign Expenditure. It doesnt matter whether you call it hush money or consideration. Hes probably trying to cover his own self. Heres under attack here. He came off as very embarrassed during the crossexamination today about the sort of unseemly work he was engaged in, as opposed to david pecker who came across as much more forthright and owned what he was doing in terms of the wheeling and dealing and sexual liaisons. It doesnt matter what you call it. At the end of the day, the jury has to decide was this a Campaign Expenditure and was it promoting an election by unlawful means. Yasmin, a duel question, one is what happened before all of the testimony which we just talked about, the gag order. Bring us up to speed. Do we know when the judge is going to rule on those four Different Cases that the prosecution says, that donald trump violated the gag order, and secondly, do we know where we go after the lunch break . No, and maybe the answer to your first question. No, not exactly the day, but maybe because the last time it took seven days it came to a judgment for the last gag order violation. Were looking at a weeks time here. We do know and we can glean as to where the judge is leaning when it comes to gag orders. Im going to walk you through that. There was four potential gag order violations, one with the jury, one with david pecker, brought up by the prosecution. David pecker is a nice guy. Donald trump is essentially saying this at one point before david peckers testimony. Two with Michael Cohen saying, and im paraphrasing, Michael Cohen is a liar. Michael cohen is not going to be a good witness, hes problematic. Things we have heard repeatedly when it comes to the star witness, Michael Cohen. Then its the jury at which the former president said 95 of the jury is democrats. It seemed as if during a Gag Order Hearing earlier today, the judge is leaning more towards Finding Donald Trump in violation of what he said about the jury. We know as part of the gag order, the former president could not speak ill of the jury or cannot speak at all of any witnesses or any potential witnesses. It seems if judge juan merchan is leaning in the direction of Holding Donald trump in violation of a gag order when he spoke about the jury. When it comes to Michael Cohen, hes more on the fence. David pecker, hes less concerned. He said that in court today. One other thing i think is important to mention is the defense brought up by todd blanche, who seemed more prepared this time around during the Gag Order Hearing, when it came to Michael Cohen. And todd blanche essentially is saying Michael Cohen does not deserve protection. If you give me a moment, im going to read what todd blanche said in court this morning when it came to Michael Cohen talking about tiktok. Mr. Cohen has started going on tiktok nightly and making money. He encourages folks to give him money. His tiktok criticizes donald trump. This is not a man who needs protection from the gag order. At one point judge juan merchan kind of concedes that this doesnt necessarily specifically name Michael Cohen and stephanie clifford, aka Stormy Daniels as people that should be included in this gag order, but all witnesses be included in this gag order. That certainly is an argument being made by todd blanche, whether or not the judge is actually going to concede and say, Michael Cohen doesnt deserve this protection. Its not likely. Certainly we expect a decision to come down in the next couple of weeks, couple of days, i should say, and or a week, chris. Thank you so much for that. All right. Chuck. Stormy daniels, i want to go back to her. An appearance she made on jimmy kimmel in 2018 was brought up in testimony today in which she was confronted on her statement denying an affair with donald trump. I want to first take a look back at that. Did you sign this letter that was released today . I dont know, did i . Wait a minute, that you can say. That does not look like my signature, does it . It doesnt look like your signature. Youre saying perhaps this letter was written and released without your approval. Do you know where it came from . Do you have any idea . I do not know where it came from. It came from the internet. You deny having anything too old with this letter. I also work for the fbi and im a man according to the internet. So obviously shes having a good time on jimmy kimmel, but to the point of this, the question really is about i think her credibility, the fact that she denied in writing having a relationship with donald trump. Her lawyer argued in his argument, this was a one time thing that they had, and done. Not a relationship. How does this play into the overall case, chuck . Again, you know, chris, you take your witnesses as you find them. As with mr. Cohen, Stormy Daniels lied and told the truth and parsed the truth and recanted the truth. This is not unusual. This happens all the time. Danny made that point earlier when danny did a better Closing Argument than i have ever done as a prosecutor. You take your witnesses as you find them. When you put them on the stand as a prosecutor, you have them go through all of the false tales they have told. You explain to the jury in context why they lied and why theyre telling the truth now, and the jury going to decide whether or not theyre believable but it is believable because i have seen this play out in court over and over again adds a prosecutor that the first time you confront somebody, they dont tell the truth, and then later they do. And jurors understand that sequence. They may understand that metamorphosis. It is not complicated. Its happening right now in courtrooms across the country, state and federal. Its what youre seeing in mr. Trumps trial. All right. So right now they have gone back in, and i want to take a look at the doc that we have here, danny. Donald trump is back at the Defense Table and before the jury comes in, judge merchan asks if theres anything else to discuss and Susan Necheles whos one of the attorneys, wants to bring up the gag order. Articles in which President Trump would like to post on his truth, i think truth social, but they discussed this case. They discussed witnesses who are going to testify. They are all articles discussing this case and are critical, talking about issues that concern us, mentioning witnesses and prosecutors. It goes on and on and on. She says, look, we think theyre perfectly fine but we think there is ambiguity in the gag order. Does she have a point . She has a point, but this may already be whats called law of the case. Justice merchan issued his decisions that reposts, as far as hes concerned by trump are considered his own speech. Thats interesting. I think theres some gray area on that. Are they essentially saying we want you to vet these things before posting . We want to make sure were not in violation, maybe . I mean, so the question is can donald trump repost articles, do we have to read them beforehand. Justice merchan said when donald trump reposts, its his own speech, especially if he adds to it, puts a comment on in the case of the jesse waters comment, he changed the wording. It didnt take judge merchan long, im not going to be in the position of looking at posts and determining in advance whether you should or should not post. Is implicit in that message, i dont want to go into judge merchans brain, but this is a pretty straightforward gag order. You ought to know what you can and cannot do . Yes and no. I think thats the message, but the judge would be in an untenable position to decide in advance what donald trump could post. Imagine if they went down that road. Every morning theres a memorandum on his desk, hey, he wants to post this, that or this article, and Justice Merchan has to waste time looking through these posts, hmm, that one would be okay. Hes essentially saying, you do what you do, if you violate, well be back here. You have heard my views on these issues like reposting, you know where i stand, and going forward, youve already been fined, so you make your choices as you see fit. Its all the same choices defendants have to make when theyre on pretrial release. When theyre given a bunch of rules to follow. I have never heard of a defendant saying can i go on my front porch to get the mail or maybe i can just ask you in the morning everything im allowed to do. You know the rules, youre told the rules. If you interpret them in a way thats on the edge, thats on you. The problem is, and i do get trumps argument. He is a political candidate. He needs to speak. If his decision goes the way of the latest gag order violations, its probably going to be because people like Michael Cohen are hurting the prosecutions argument for a gag order violation. Davidson is back on the stand. The jury is coming in. But merchans final word on this whole issue was i think if in doubt steer clear. Thats all im going to say. Donald trump didnt steer clear. Im not suggesting this violates the gag order. He was on truth social over the break. Contrary to the fake news media, i dont fall asleep during the crooked d. A. s witch hunt, especially not today. I simply close my beautiful blue eyes, sometimes, listen intently, and take it all in. All in caps. You cant predict, but the jury is to some extent watching, right . They are watching every move he makes. Its something as a Defense Attorney now i tell my clients and you know that its just human nature that theyre all watching him. Theyre watching every move he makes, and if hes furiously writing down on his notes,