hosting a very special conversation in new york city's historic apollo theater, all to talk about to his new book, met grandmotherly. you can catch it all on saturday night, 9:00 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc and streaming on peacock. set your dvr if you've got hot plans on saturday but for now i wish you from all of our colleagues across the networks of his neck a very good night. thanks thanks thank you for staying up late with me. i'll see you at the end of tomorrow. thank you at home for joining me this hour. have you ever seen veep? it aired for 7 seasons. it's julia dryphus. she won six consecutive emmys for it. she plays vice president myer who is an instant iconic political figure. even if you haven't, she is very ambitious, she wants to be president not just vice president and she's a total disaster. she's a political animal but spends all her time having to put out fires of her own. making fires of her staffs own making. she's just a disaster. and one of the sort of signature production things on the show. one of the things she does to great effect is they use every last second of the show. during the ends credits, they highlight these campaign screw ups and pr disasters. so the end credits are the best part of the show. they happen to be substantive or awkwardly trying to connect with high school students who are visiting the vice president's office. if you've seen the show you know about this excellent trick basically that they do at the end. here's kind of a perfect example of a veep ends credit. this is her greeting people at a party at the vice president's official residence. >> so you want to mingle? >> yeah. >> let's go mingle the [bleep ] out of it. >> i'm so happy you're here. >> jenny armitege disabled sports of america. >> just had triplets. >> triplet, wow. that must have hurt. unless you had ha c-section. >> center for social action. >> a triathlete. >> no he's not. >> hello. >> liam miller, nasa. >> that's an acronym for national aeronautics. >> he's a baker. >> wow. he's a baker. christ has risen. he's a triathelete, no he's not. iconic figure from the great show veep. now this is a person who is not a tv character. his name is hovde. he is an actual person not a tv person who is running for an actual senate seat in wisconsin. he's trying to unseat tammy baldwin in wisconsin. in wisconsin circles, hovde's recent attempts to say the pledge of allegiance emphatically has been set to the closing credits of veep. because once you see it it's impossible to not think of it. watch him try to make it through the credits here. >> i'm proud to be an american. i love my country. so let's say the pledge of allegiance together. i pledge allegiance to the flag of the united states of america. and to the republic for which it stands, individule, under god, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. amen. god bless america. go slay your speech. >> thank you. >> we're all so blessed to be part of the greatest country in the history of mankind, america. be of mankind, america. be >> is he waiting to the end of the marching band. the part we also belatedly realize he puts his hand on his heart. the republican party really desperately wants to take that senate seat in wisconsin. again that is the seat currently held by tammy baldwin. they want that seat. they really want to unseat her the problem is they have chosen this man as the candidate to try to do it. he has succeeded in making national headlines as the republican senate candidate. that's not necessarily an easy thing to do. the problem is, he's made the headlines for things like this. >> if you have in a nursing home, you only have 5 or 6 months expectancy. almost no one in a nursing home is in any point to vote. >> everyone if someone who has not heard the united states senate before can probably sus out that's probably not a great political strategy. yeah old people shouldn't vote. old people in nursing homes, they shouldn't be allowed. most nursing home residents not at a point to vote. after that made headlines across wisconsin and indeed across new hampshire, mr. hove tried to make it go ahead but did it again. this week he reiterated his belief that quote a large percentage of nursing home residents quote are not in the mental capacity to vote. that's cleaning it up. when i said, people in nursing homes should not be allowed to vote let me clear that up. that a large percentage of people in nursing homes shouldn't be allowed to vote because they don't have the mental capacity for it. there, is that better. i should mention that description of the world's most inept effort to clean up a political disaster. the account of that that that has quoted from, me quoting from a new york national story where the headline helps clear up the headline better. lawsuit puts fresh focus on eric hovde's comments about older voters. what is this lawsuit, you say. turns out that the same time he has been questioning the mental capacity of nursing home residents to vote he is also the head of a bank that is a codefendant in a california lawsuit that accuses a senior living facility of elder abuse, negligence and wrongful death. hi is a codefendant in that lawsuit. his bank is a codefendant. because it turns out that eric hovde in addition to running for senate in wisconsin he runs a bank that owns a nursing home that in california has given rise to a fairly gruesome elder abuse and wrongful death lawsuit. at which point you're thinking, wow. that puts a way worse, way darker spin on his already inexplicable comments about how we shouldn't allow people in nursing homes to vote because how dare they even try, right. but you're also thinking wait, why did you say california. i thought he was running for senate in wisconsin. yes. yes. this is another problem that the local news in wisconsin has been trying to tell people about this guy from the very beginning. back in may 2023, quote, eric hovde might run for senate in wisconsin but he's living large in laguna beach, california. and they're running the flag up the flag pole for the republican party before they picked him. eric hovde was named as one of the most influential people in orange county, orange county california, where he lives. in laguna beach which is 2,000 miles away from wisconsin. he does run a bank. his bank is named a codefendant in a nursing home elder abuse lawsuit and he's running for senate in wisconsin. where 18% of the population is over the age of 65. he's running there by saying repeatedly that people in nursing homes shouldn't be allowed to vote because hey, they don't have it together. at most they have 6 months to live, why should they be voting. amen. go slinger speed way. okay eric. and i should under score here how badly the republican participatety -- republican party wants to win this seat. inexplicably this is the guy they picked. this is a live dynamic in the republican party in way more places than you would think. here for example is the ap headline on the republicans u.s. senate candidate in pennsylvania. david mccormick is gearing up for a senate run in pennsylvania. but he lives in connecticut. that seems bad. if you think about a pennsylvania senate race you will recall, republicans lost a shot at a winnable u.s. senate seat last time around. last election cycle when they, when they ran republican candidate memmet oz. republicans ran memmet oz, dr. oz for that seat. and candidates said he lives out of state and running in pennsylvania. they have developed a back story for their candidate. this time around who lives in connecticut, they've decided he's going to describe himself as someone who started with nothing. who grew up on a family farm in pennsylvania. did he start with nothing? did he grow up on a family farm in pennsylvania? what do you think? quote, mr. mccormick has explicitly said that he grew up on a farm. he claimed that he had quote started with nothing and that he quote didn't have anything. he and his campaign have recently described his parents as school teachers. in fact, mr. mccormick is the son of a well regarded college president who later became chancellor of higher education systems in pennsylvania and in minnesota. mccormick grew up in the sprawling president's residence which the students call the president's mansion. or he started with nothing and grew up on a family farm. so in wisconsin, republicans are running a salina myer under study who is from california who's bank is being sued for elder abuse and who says don't let people in nursing homes vote. in pennsylvania, they are running a man who grew up in a literal president's mansion and who says he grew up with nothing and was so poor. and in pennsylvania they really want to take the senate seat there that is held by john test er. one of the things that makes john tester really popular in a worldly state like montana is senator tester is for real a real farmer, drives the tractor and everything. republicans decided to run someone against tester who is a person from minnesota who grew up in the suburbs of st. paul. since he has been running against john tester he's made a big deal of saying he grew up near farmland. turns out there was maybe farmland near the multimillion dollars lake house he grew up in in suburban st. paul. so that's pretty much just like being a farmer. this follows another quite unusual controversy for this montana senate candidate in which he either dropped a loaded gun in a parking lot at glacier national park and the gun went off when it hit the ground and he shot himself in the arm or he didn't really shoot himself in the arm by dropping a gun in the parking lot at glacier park but he nonetheless went to the hospital any way. while he did tell a u.s. park ranger that he dropped a gun and shot himself, he was lying to the ranger because really he was trying to conceal the secret truth that he had an unreported secret war wound that he didn't want anyone to know about. but whatever happened it was definitely near farmland. very near. you could smell it near by. in the vicinity. there's another one. michigan, michigan republicans are thrilled that democratic u.s. senator debby stabinao is retiring in that state. they would like to take that senate seat in michigan so cue the headlines out of michigan. quote, michigan republican candidate caught living in florida. this is about republican michigan u.s. candidate mike rogers. his name is mike rogers. this confluence of where he lives and his name. where is mr. rogers neighborhood. he does appear to be registered to vote in florida at his very nice house in cape coral, florida. where he is registered with the republican party in florida, voter status active. where is mr. rogers neighborhood indeed? in arizona, the senate seat there is another one that republicans would absolutely love to pick up with kristin cinema retiring. the republicans senate candidate in arizona kerry lake she does appear to live in arizona which is a big plus for this crop of republican senate candidates. kind of a notable distinction in fact. in the case of arizona, you're going to need more than that. because this for example is the new ad that the democratic senate campaign put out on kerry lake as a senate candidate in arizona and the issue of abortion rights in that state. . >> i'm incredibly thrilled that we are going to have a great law that's already in the books. i believe it's ars133306 so it will prohibit abortion in arizona paving the way and setting course for other states to follow. >> this law passed the arizona supreme court said this is the law of arizona. but unfortunately the people running our state have said we're not going to enforce it. so it's really political theater. we don't have that law as much as any of us really did. >> she's not enforcing the law. so they don't have that. the only people who can enforce that law are sheriffs. and we need to start asking the sheriffs to enforce that. >> i haven't changed actually, no. haven't changed actually, no. >> kerry lake is the republican party's best idea of who they should run for the united states senate seat. that they really want to take this year in arizona. but clock the context, the specifics she was offering there in that state. she wants individual sheriffs in arizona to start enforcing the state's 1864 abortion ban. get out there, get to it, get out on the streets, find out who's pregnant. we want the sheriffs enforcing this. watch when you cross county lines. there's a lot going on in the republican party right now. and i know that, the party's presidential nominee their most recent former president donald trump. i know he sucks up all the commentary. note what is going on in the republican party aside from him. just look at aász -- arizona for a second. in arizona they're not only running kerry lake for senate. arizona republicans just chose their representatives for the national party. you know it's called the rnc, the republican national committee. it is a committee. every state sends two people to make up the committee. every state gets two choices. they decided their two choices would be, this person. who was literally expelled from the state legislature recently after only being there for about three months. here's how that was described in the arizona republican. quote, she was expelled from the republican controlled house just three months into her term. this after she staged an all day live stream legislative hearing at which her witnesses talked about the many ways in which our elections were supposedly stolen. the highlight was a scottsdale agent making preposterous that they all accepted bribes from the sinaloan cartel. now she's a top ranking official in the republican party. just one of arizona's two representatives to the republican national committee. but remember they get to pick two. the second representative arizona republicans just chose to represent their state at the rnc is this person. who is a very special variety of arizona republican state senator. here's how lori roberts at the arizona republic describes him today. meet jake hoffman. this queen creek rose to fame when he ran an internet scheme. a digital marketing firm where his job was to pay teenagers, some of them minors to set up fake personas and blanket social media with thousands of similar posts and down playing the impact of covid-19. in other words jake hoffman wanted to fool you into thinking these were real people with conservative beliefs instead of what they were. a group of kids he was paying to deceive you. the posts cast doubt on the security of mail in ballots. quote it's the kind of thing you might expect to come out of russia. instead it came out of phoenix. or more specifically jake hoffman's secret cell of paid teenage trolls. that troll farm in phoenix was exposed in september of 2020. the same gentleman went on in december of 2020, to be one of the fake electors from arizona for trump. he in fact, is one of the fake electors who was criminally indicted in arizona for his alleged role in that scheme. he was indicted last week, and named republican national committee man for the state of arizona just days later. it's not like they didn't know he had been indicted. they knew he was indicted then they picked him afterward. there are at least 53 people who have now been criminally charged with participating in the effort to keep trump in power after he lost reelection in 2020. and i'm not talking about the people who physically attacked congress to try to intimidate and physically stop congress from certifying the vote count on january 6th. you can hive all of those hundreds of people off. there are still at least 53 republican party officials and lawyers and activists who are facing felony criminal counts other than donald trump himself. and this is, this is sort of, this is me making my case to you. i think it is an under appreciated part of the politics, of the republican party in the trump era. i think it is an under appreciated part of politics in our country right now as trump is trying to return to the presidency again. that not only is he in the dark facing felony criminal charges as he tries to return to the white house. but also in the dock are the chair or former chair of the state republican parties in arizona and michigan, and georgia, and nevada. and serving republican elected officials in all of those states and they are all swing states. trump advisor peter navarro is in jail right now. today the u.s. supreme court again rejected another request from him to get out of prison. he is currently serving time in prison for refusing to testify about his role in trump's efforts to overthrow the government. clark just learned today in his disbarment proceedings, is arguing to the court there is no sanction other than disbarment that is suitable for clark given what he did. it would be inconsistent with our duty to the disciplinary system and to the profession to even suggest that a sanction other than disbarment should be contemplated. by attempting to violate the rules of professional conduct jeffrey clark betrayed those oaths and in doing so his country. lawyers who betray their country must be disbarred. and i know that, the former president himself, former president and republican presidential nominee. i know him being on trial for multiple felonies is an amazing and unprecedented and frankly astonishing skeptical. stick a pin in that idea of astonishing. because the crime he is alleged to have quarterbacked to try to keep him in power despite losing reelection that crime is now a sprawling nationwide scandal that has resulted in dozens of republican officials almost in almost all the swing states being criminally charged and in all of the prominent lawyers involved in that effort either being criminally charged or having their law licenses put at risk or both. and yes, trump himself will be back in court tomorrow and there's stuff to know about that. we're going to get to that tonight. but no matter what happens to him, in his own felony cases, and in his own political trajectory. do not lose sight of what is happening to the republican party while they have been drafting him off in the lead. because it is an astonishing story on its own. and if all that is not enough. i might have something else that tops all of it. even if mr. veep is back there messing up the pledge of allegiance. i have more for you on that. i hear that music and my feet just start tapping. my grandchildren, they're sixth generation of dancers. it's what my family is all about. i thought i knew a lot about our irish roots. i was surprised to learn so many more things from ancestry. 1892. oh and here's the boat they came over on. there was a julie healy, a mary healy, this is all their names? yes, yes. wow. 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>> boo, boo. >> disorder and disarray. that's why gubernatorial candidate says he no longer wants an endorsement from the gop. >> we will not be endorsing a governor at this convention. >> as you can hear, boos rang out at the spokane gop convention after the parties vice chair announced they will not be endorsing a candidate. >> it went that well, huh. this being a republican state convention in the age of republican candidates under donald trump. the event ended up with infighting and disputes and dysfunction. delegates ultimately decided to endorse the trumpiest most extreme candidate but the other candidate says he will still run in the summer's republican primary. all of that chaos was bucking all the the áf news. something slightly nuttier than that happened. they decided they would craft their public platform after dealing with the gubernatorial nomination. they decided they would add something new. as the washington state republican party they would this year take a stand against democracy. and i do not mean this as a met fore. metaphor. >> we do not want to be a democracy. originally congressmen were elected by a direct democracy. senators were elected by state legislature and presidents are elected by the electoral college. we are devolving into a a democracy. with the national popular vote coming, we're going to be voting our president by a democracy too. bad idea. >> bad idea. we are devolving into a democracy. we do not want to be a democracy. as the seattle types reported, delegates of the washington state republican convention then stood one by one to argue that the should repeal the amendment. after that resolution passed, they went bigger. they voted to put this language into their platform quote we encourage republicans to substitute the words republican and republickism were previously they have used the word democracy. everywhere that the word democracy is used favorly. we oppose legislation which makes our nation more democratic in nature. we oppose legislation that makes our nation more democratic in nature. so say washington state republicans. officially in writing in their party platform. what's going on here? joining us now is jerry cornfield. a politics reporter with the washington state standard. he was at the party convention in spokane. thank you for being here. >> thank you for having me. >> looking outside. i am talking about what jumped out at me. itch -- i know you've been covering politics in your state. what struck you about what happened there? >> i think what happened there through the platform which we know platforms want to elect the next governor or any of the statewide officials. but it did say that, republicans seem to be a little bit out of touch with the electoral in this state. there's no republicans in statewide office. there hasn't been a republican governor since the 80s. they've voted not to endorse a sitting congressman newhouse. in part because he voted to impeach the former president. not sure it represented the passions or even the thoughts of most washingtonians or those in the party. >> who's an activist in the national republican party right now and the sort of median republican party voter in washington. what's the make up of the delegates. what's the atmosphere like and how many folks is this that are making these decisions? >> there's 1,800 people were there and easy 2/3 were, align themselves with we the people. or america first. you didn't hear donald trump mentioned a lot. you heard america first mentioned a bit. i think with the 70% of them endorsed the candidate. you know that you mentioned before, the conservative candidate. they didn't endorse the former congressman rickert the former sheriff. they represent the grass roots in washington. but the question is will they be there will if their candidates don't win in the primary in august. i think that's really the big question for republicans in washington state. democrats are on the verge, their confident they can get to a super majority control. in the house, senate and state legislature. when they start writing and talking about these things in their platform. it's just going to scare off voters. those who like their ideas are going to wonder if they elect people if they're going to carry out any part of that platform. >> yeah taking an overt anti democracy stance with an exclamation point among other things going to get you national headlines. >> it is. it's interesting to have they had one line left in that resolution. they oppose all efforts to use american military might to spread democracy around the world. which you know, we're hearing that folks don't want the american, america's military to be the police person of the world. and so it's interesting they would put that in the same resolution. >> america first indeed. jerry cornfield of the washington state standard. jerry i really appreciate you being here, thank you. >> thank you. we've got much more to come tonight. stay with us. hello, ghostbusters. it's doug. we help people customize and save hundreds on car insurance with liberty mutual. we got a bit of a situation. 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easier. sign up at shiningthroughcidp.com. all: be heard. be hopeful. be you. 2022 there's speculation that he's facing. saying i am hoping we are going to have the biggest protest we have ever had. and then that fall, if he is indicted the united states would face problems the likes of which perhaps we've never seen. then, march 2023 he's indeed preparing to be indicted in new york and he just sounds. this is it. all capital letters. quote, protest take our nation back. it's time. we just can't allow this anymore. we must save america, protest, protest, protest. says it three times with three exclamation points. when trump was indeed arraigned, these are all the people that came out to protest, protest, protest for him. this is the biggest crowd he's had. probably not enough to take the presidency back with three exclamation points. then, the case in florida he demanded his supporters rally for him in person. quote, all caps, see you in miami on tuesday. local law enforcement prepared for crowds of up to 50,000 people after he said that. the actual crowd was closer to 500 people not 50,000 people. ahead of opening statements in his new york criminal trial trump tried cranking the handle again. 72 hours until all hell breaks lose. if we fail to have a massive. it was rudy giuliani's adult son and a smattering of other people and that was it. trump has actually tried claiming that big throngs of people have been showing up to, protest and show their support for him in new york. or at least that people have showed up trying to protest but he says police have been keeping them away. he's trying claims on social media that the area in front of the court was completely shut down. he said thousands of people were turned away from the courthouse in lower manhattan by steel stantions and police. again it's not true. police are not turning people away. there are no steel stantions blocking his supporters from walking around them. you can walk right up there. but by thursday the past week of testimony it was just this one dude named gary and that was about it. because he has not just been predicting protests on his behalf. he has been commending his followers to protest for him. it is a little humiliating for trump. that this is happening. that he can't seem to summon a crowd. it is also speaking whether trump can command a crowd or are those days behind him. i think the other way that this functions is an important reminder that he's not getting who he wants in terms of daily stemlation. stimulation. he doesn't have crowds of people chanting his name. nobody is showing up for him. the court is kind of old and dingy. we can expect he can be disappointed, angry and delusional about the reasons that there are not people outside protesting for him. inside the trial, he is likely to be bored and unhappy. while not receiving the kind of response and adoration from the people he expects to deliver that to him. hiberman at the times recently put it this way. it is hard to recall any other time trump has been forced to be bored for so long. quote the shared sense among many of his advisors is the process may damage him as much as a guilty verdict. the process they believe is its own punishment. if the process is the punishment here. what should we expect about what these next days will likely be like. without any protesters and testimony we see coming around the corner that seems might be more boring than anything that's yet happened. how much worse is this about to get for him and can he pull the rip cord to get out of it. that's next. lawn disease? been going around. so like other people have it and it's not... pick up a bag of the new scotts turf builder healthy plus lawn food today. feed your lawn. feed it. every day, more dog people are deciding it's time for a fresh approach to pet food. developed with vets. made from real meat and veggies. portioned for your dog. and delivered right to your door. it's smarter, healthier pet food. everybody wants super straight, super white teeth. they want that hollywood white smile. new sensodyne clinical white provides 2 shades whiter teeth and 24/7 sensitivity protection. i think it's a great product. it's going to help a lot of patients. the criminal trial of republican presidential presumptive nominee donald trump resumes tomorrow. court should start at 7 eastern sharp. former president trump will once again be forced to sit in a boring old courtroom. i have kind of a wild take on this and it is this. if i were trump i would plead guilty. i would try to plead it on down to a single count if i could. pay the fines, take the business punishment or whatever. do the, you know five minutes of jail time. call yourself a martyr for it. you can shorten this process. you could get out of that courtroom and get back on the campaign trail: you could avoid the punishment of having to show up for court every day. this is likely the only one of his trials happening before election day. if he goes out and campaigns he will likely be voted president. and this goes out any way. if he sticks it out at trial this is going to be another six weeks more. how much worse is this going to get for him. joining us now is lisa ruben. it's great to see you, thank you for being here. >> thanks for having me. >> i know we disagree on this and i know you understand these things better than i do. so please tell me why trump should not plead guilty. or why he's unlikely to plead guilty. >> part of that is it necessitates the participation of the prosecutors and their negotiation. i don't see them negotiating down to one. if he were to plead guilty, judge marchand would want to sentence him immediately. i don't see a situation where he would want to postpone the sentencing until after the election. trump would want this to happen because these are felonies that are punishable not for two or three months but years in jail. >> even if he is going to be found guilty, presumably once he is elected if he does in fact, succeed in his reelection effort. >> if me sticks with the trial, the prospect that he can appeal his sentence would allow him theoretically to be able to stay the verdict and stay the sentencing. if he pleads guilty he loses control of that timing. >> lisa, in terms of the process being the punishment for him. we've both been in court. we've seen the way that he's reacting physically to the strains of these long days in court. what are you expecting? what are you going to be watching for in terms of what it's like in the courtroom for this next week? say this next week or two? what kind of testimony are we going to be looking forward to? is this going to be something that is even more egregiously tiring for him? >> i think it could be. because if past is prologued, the last two witnesses were primarily there to help admit documents for the prosecution. it is not the most scintillating to listen to. the ability to stay awake and engage may be even more challenge than it's been. it's one thing to remain at attention when everybody is talking about you and about salacious gossipy testimony. but the other of going through the minutia of bank records. if we continue to see testimony primarily with the goal of admitting documents the prosecutors need to connect the dots, count on donald trump to have a hard time staying engaged and to return to that big stack of papers he's been carrying with him which i think are mostly cherry picked articles that say good things about him to hold his attention. >> lisa ruben, i know you'll be back in the courtroom tomorrow. thank you for staying with me. >> thank you. >> we'll be right back. e. >> thank you. >> we'll be right back. flooding problems on my porch. now i understand why. right now leaffilter is offering a free inspection, on your schedule. leaffilter is a permanent gutter solution, so you never have to worry about costly damage from clogged gutters again. call us today and schedule your 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