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Trumps lawyers are looking to shred david peckers testimony and damage his credibility. Plus, whats next after Supreme Court arguments on president ial immunity, and the prominent republican who now says president s should not be immune from prosecution. Also ahead, dramatic demonstrations continuing on College Campuses as propalestinian protests lead to hundreds of arrests. Good morning, and happy friday. It is 10 00 eastern. Im Ana Cabrera Reporting from new york. We begin with the breaking news out of a manhattan courtroom where the first witness called in Donald Trumps Hush Money Case is back on the stand this morning. This time facing questions from trumps attorneys. Now, trumps team attempting to poke holes in david peckers testimony. Pecker is the former publisher of the National Enquirer who has testified that he was involved in efforts to catch and kill stories that could have hurt trump during the 2016 campaign. Nbcs Vaughn Hillyard is outside the courthouse. Also with us, john sale, watergate Assistant Prosecutor and former federal prosecutor, and jessica roth, also a former federal prosecutor. Thank you all for joining us. Vaughn, whats happening so far there this morning . Reporter right, yesterday on the stand during the Cross Examination, it was only able to last about one hour before ultimately court ended, and thats where this morning the Cross Examination from Donald Trumps Defense Attorney emil bove continues of david pecker. The focus so far this morning has been on two specific parts, number one, the extent to which hope hicks was involved in that August Of 2015 meeting, asked about whether hope hicks was an active participant or spoke during that meeting, david pecker conceded that, no, she did not actively participate or speak during that trump tower meeting that was engaged between Michael Cohen, donald trump, and david pecker, only going so far as to say that she was in and out of the room. The second part of Donald Trumps Defense Inquiry of david pecker was over the arrangement that they had with him coming out of that august 2015 meeting, specifically as it pertained to stories about the clintons, but also the likes of ben carson, marco rubio and ted cruz, those negative stories that were intended to hurt their campaigns, and the defense team asked david pecker whether they would have run those stories regardless of the relationship that they had struck with donald trump, and pecker, according to our team, lisa rubin inside, said pecker was hesitant in responding, but said yes. This was a longstanding Relationship Dating back to the 90s that donald trump and david pecker had, and that this was also just par for the course for the way that American Media and the National Enquirer operated, that they would obviously run negative stories about other republican candidates and the clintons, because, frankly, it was good for their business and it turned cover stories that allowed them to sell papers. Vaughn, thank you for the update. John, how do you see the Defense Strategy working here . What are they trying to do . I think theyre trying to have it both ways. I think theyre trying to make nice with david pecker, and theyre going to do the obvious. Theyre going to challenge his memory. Theyre going to point out that he has a nonprosecution agreement so he has a motive to not go against the prosecution, but i think what they want to do is bring this back to Michael Cohen as much as they possibly can, and example after example, theyre just getting started. For example when david pecker was concerned about violating Campaign Finance laws, so Michael Cohen says, oh, dont worry about it, donald trump has Jeff Sessions, the attorney general in his pocket. Well, that was so false, i think theyre going to come back and show not only was Jeff Sessions the attorney general not in trumps pocket, but they had a terrible relationship and sessions recused himself in the mueller investigation, and one thing after another, i think theyre going to try and bring this back to Michael Cohen and away from david pecker. Jessica, weve heard so many other names come out in the prosecutions questioning of david pecker, but also in the Defense Cross where theyve got him to talk about all these other stories they did that were not related to trump or stories that they quashed that could have been embarrassing for other famous people, again, not named trump. Is the goal there to try to paint this picture that this was all just sort of Standard Practice . Yeah, theyre trying to diffuse the significance of the fact these stories were killed on behalf of trump by putting them in the context of this being an ongoing practice. Theyre also specifically trying to diffuse the argument which is necessary to the prosecutions theory of the case that the scheme with respect to Karen Mcdougal and Stormy Daniels was all about helping trumps political campaign, thats the crux of the charge, that this was a scheme to basically disguise Unlawful Campaign contributions. And so by showing that ami made these essentially did these favors for other celebrities, it suggested this was not for trump in particular and not for trump in association with his campaign, and so i think when you see that the defense focusing on Hope Hicks Being In and out, thats to try to get at the idea that she was not there on behalf of the campaign in a significant way. Thats where i see them going with trying to bring out inconsistencies about whether hope hicks was present or not. If she was involved in these discussions, that ties it to the campaign in a way that was really important. Lets back up for a second. Hope hickss a discussion theyre having today and her role in any of these potential meetings and conversations that took place at this time. On the other hand, they were talking about people like Arnold Schwarzenegger and Mark Wahlberg and tiger woods and others yesterday who have not been prosecuted for any of the allegations around their deals allegedly with mi, with david peckers publications. So can you just for our viewers clarify what the line is there in terms of legal versus illegal as it relates to these catch and kill stories and deals that were to silence people . Well, what makes the payments essentially on behalf of donald trump different from those other payments with respect to other celebrities is that they were made at least the ones in 2016 in connection with or around, according to the prosecutions theory, his campaign for the purpose of assisting his campaign, and with respect to most of those other celebrities, with the exception of Arnold Schwarzenegger possibly when he was interested in running for governor of california, those other celebrities were not running for political office. So those schemes with respect to those stories concerning those celebrities, dont implication Campaign Finance laws. Thats what makes them distinguishable and not really relevant for the prosecutions purposes, although the defense is clearly trying to muddy the waters. I want to come back to something you said, john, about how one strategy is to try to sort of poke holes in david peckers memory or make it look like he doesnt have a really good memory. There was a little bit of back and forth ill share from the transcript yesterday where trumps Attorney Bove says, quote, there are things that you did not remember very well that you testified about today that you used other documents to refresh yourself on, correct . Pecker answers yes. So clearly the idea, the challenged memory, challenge his credibility, do you think thats effective . Its minimally effective. I mean, theyre suggesting that the prosecutor refreshed his memory and hes saying what the prosecutor wants, but remember, all these other celebrities you started to think maybe this is the david pecker show. With schwarzenegger, for example. All we know is what was in the Tabloid Media so we dont have any inside information, but it surely appeared that part of his motive was to protect his marriage because we saw publicly that when this all came out about his mistress and the child that his marriage broke out. Well, i think theyre going to be going there and suggesting with trump that there were alternate motives and the people are not able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that it was to influence the election. But that piece was something that the prosecution got out in front of yesterday in its questioning of david pecker and perhaps it will come back around after the Cross Examination when they have a chance to do the rebuttal of sorts. Theres this other part of the transcript, let me read. This was during the direct questioning by the prosecution. The prosecution asks did he, trump, ever say anything to you that made you think that his concern about these stories getting out was for his family rather than for his campaign . Pecker, i thought it was for the campaign. Prosecution, what makes you say that . Pecker, every time we the conversations that i had with Michael Cohen with respect to both of these stories the family was his family was never mentioned, and the conversations that i had directly with mr. Trump, his family wasnt mentioned. Jessica. This is a key part of peckers testimony to shore up the prosecutions theory that these payments that ami made and that Michael Cohen go to the crux of the case or Campaign Contributions that exceeded the amounts an individual under law was permitted to donate to a campaign. Pecker said we were involved with stories with respect to trump earlier in our association with him before he ran for office, and at those earlier times, trump was concerned about protecting his family, but once it came time to be in the campaign when we were in the campaign, trumps concerns were all about the effect on his campaign prospects, and thats what, again, makes these payments and these stories different from all of those others. Lets get another update from our Vaughn Hillyard at the courthouse. I understand theyre talking about a 2015 meeting . Reporter you guys were talking about the effort of Donald Trumps defense team apparently trying to disconnect this from the significance of the fact that it was intended to cover up stories negative to donald trump before the 2016 election here, and as part of this, i just want to let you look at part of the back and forth that is taking place around that August Of 2015 meeting to that point. Donald trumps Defense Attorney asked pecker, you testified on tuesday that it was your objective to keep the august 2015 meeting confidential. You said you wanted to keep it, quote, as quiet as possible to which pecker responded, yes. And then bove, Donald Trumps Defense Attorney responds, but it actually became public prior to the election that you were doing these things for President Trump, to which pecker responds, yes. Folks will of course recall that the Wall Street Journal published a story about the Karen Mcdougal arrangement four days before the 2016 election there, and he is currently working through with pecker that Wall Street Journal article that came out just before the election. Of course, the jury is hearing this play out in realtime as well. And as part of this, this is making the case through this back and forth between bove and pecker here that this was something that ultimately was openly discussed, that the enquirer had supported mr. Trumps president ial bid, endorsing him and publishing negative stories about his opponents. What he is establishing here, Donald Trumps attorney in front of the jury, is the fact that this was already made public before the november election of 2016, the relationship between ami, david pecker and donald trump in an effort to try to keep quiet at least one of the negative stories. Of course that negative story was about Karen Mcdougal explicitly, not about Stormy Daniels. At the same time here, this is the defense teams efforts to try to make the case that if all of this was just an intended effort to keep it quiet before the 2016 election, then why would they have continued to try to pay off the likes of Stormy Daniels and continue to keep this quiet after the 2016 election in 2017 and 2018 as well. Okay, thank you, vaughn. Jon, what do you make of that . I think we still have to wait and see. The cross is just beginning, but dont forget, these are all uncharged activities. The state, the people are trying to make this part of an overall conspiracy. Remember, its Stormy Daniels that this case is all about, and we havent gotten to that yet. Right. Stormy daniels was done by three people, donald trump, Michael Cohen, and Allen Weisselberg. Where is Allen Weisselberg . Hes not going to testify for the prosecution. Hes headed back to prison. If his testimony would have been favorable, would have corroborated cohen, i can assure you that the d. A. Would have put him on. He and and why did they make a deal like that . Why did they give him a Sweetheart Deal for perjury without requiring his cooperation . I think its because he was not going to say anything incriminating about donald trump. Everything pecker has said so far is essentially background until we get to the main event, which is the payment to Stormy Daniels. Its necessary background because we dont have that background in context chlkt the testimony about the deal with Stormy Daniels is not going to make a lot of sense, so there is a sense in which were just getting to the most important parts of the story, but i think pecker was an excellent choice for a first witness for the are prosecution because he sets the stage for these other witnesses and corroborates Michael Cohen in advance and setting up Michael Cohen spoke with donald trump who was personally involved in some of the other conversations. In other cases cohen would say the boss wants to speak with you, and the trump would call pecker. Michael cohen had the authority to speak for trump on other occasions. This is all so fascinating. Thank you both so much for being our guide. Please stay close as well bring more updates from that courthouse throughout the hour to our viewers. Plus, does david peckers testimony give us a clue as to who else will take the stand. Are trumps other cases all but dead in the water before novembers election. What the Supreme Court signaled about his president ial immunity argument. And the republican leader who just said president s should not be immune from prosecution. Were back in 60 seconds. Were back in 60 seconds nothing dims my light like a migraine. With nurtec odt, i found relief. The only Migraine Medication that helps treat and prevent, all in one. To those with migraine, i see you. For the acute treatment of migraine with or without aura and the preventive treatment of Episodic Migraine in adults. Dont take if allergic to nurtec odt. Allergic reactions can occur, even days after using. Most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. Its time we all shine. Talk to a Healthcare Provider about nurtec odt from pfizer. Shop etsy until may 12th talk to a Healthcare Provider for up to 30 off special mothers day gifts that go beyond the usual suspects. Save on personalized jewelry, original decor and other things moms actually love. When you need a gift as unique as she is. Etsy has it. When you put in the effort, but it starts to frizz. You skipped a step. Tresemme silk serum. Use before styling for three days of weightlessly smooth hair that frizz cant beat. New tresemme keratin smooth collection. This morning donald trump is back in court for his Hush Money Trial after yesterdays high stakes legal split screen when trump was stuck in manhattan for his Supreme Court<\/a> arguments on president ial immunity, and the prominent republican who now says president s should not be immune from prosecution. Also ahead, dramatic demonstrations continuing on College Campuses<\/a> as propalestinian protests lead to hundreds of arrests. Good morning, and happy friday. It is 10 00 eastern. Im Ana Cabrera Reporting<\/a> from new york. We begin with the breaking news out of a manhattan courtroom where the first witness called in Donald Trumps<\/a> Hush Money Case<\/a> is back on the stand this morning. This time facing questions from trumps attorneys. Now, trumps team attempting to poke holes in david peckers testimony. Pecker is the former publisher of the National Enquirer<\/a> who has testified that he was involved in efforts to catch and kill stories that could have hurt trump during the 2016 campaign. Nbcs Vaughn Hillyard<\/a> is outside the courthouse. Also with us, john sale, watergate Assistant Prosecutor<\/a> and former federal prosecutor, and jessica roth, also a former federal prosecutor. Thank you all for joining us. Vaughn, whats happening so far there this morning . Reporter right, yesterday on the stand during the Cross Examination<\/a>, it was only able to last about one hour before ultimately court ended, and thats where this morning the Cross Examination<\/a> from Donald Trumps<\/a> Defense Attorney<\/a> emil bove continues of david pecker. The focus so far this morning has been on two specific parts, number one, the extent to which hope hicks was involved in that August Of 2015<\/a> meeting, asked about whether hope hicks was an active participant or spoke during that meeting, david pecker conceded that, no, she did not actively participate or speak during that trump tower meeting that was engaged between Michael Cohen<\/a>, donald trump, and david pecker, only going so far as to say that she was in and out of the room. The second part of Donald Trumps<\/a> Defense Inquiry<\/a> of david pecker was over the arrangement that they had with him coming out of that august 2015 meeting, specifically as it pertained to stories about the clintons, but also the likes of ben carson, marco rubio and ted cruz, those negative stories that were intended to hurt their campaigns, and the defense team asked david pecker whether they would have run those stories regardless of the relationship that they had struck with donald trump, and pecker, according to our team, lisa rubin inside, said pecker was hesitant in responding, but said yes. This was a longstanding Relationship Dating<\/a> back to the 90s that donald trump and david pecker had, and that this was also just par for the course for the way that American Media<\/a> and the National Enquirer<\/a> operated, that they would obviously run negative stories about other republican candidates and the clintons, because, frankly, it was good for their business and it turned cover stories that allowed them to sell papers. Vaughn, thank you for the update. John, how do you see the Defense Strategy<\/a> working here . What are they trying to do . I think theyre trying to have it both ways. I think theyre trying to make nice with david pecker, and theyre going to do the obvious. Theyre going to challenge his memory. Theyre going to point out that he has a nonprosecution agreement so he has a motive to not go against the prosecution, but i think what they want to do is bring this back to Michael Cohen<\/a> as much as they possibly can, and example after example, theyre just getting started. For example when david pecker was concerned about violating Campaign Finance<\/a> laws, so Michael Cohen<\/a> says, oh, dont worry about it, donald trump has Jeff Sessions<\/a>, the attorney general in his pocket. Well, that was so false, i think theyre going to come back and show not only was Jeff Sessions<\/a> the attorney general not in trumps pocket, but they had a terrible relationship and sessions recused himself in the mueller investigation, and one thing after another, i think theyre going to try and bring this back to Michael Cohen<\/a> and away from david pecker. Jessica, weve heard so many other names come out in the prosecutions questioning of david pecker, but also in the Defense Cross<\/a> where theyve got him to talk about all these other stories they did that were not related to trump or stories that they quashed that could have been embarrassing for other famous people, again, not named trump. Is the goal there to try to paint this picture that this was all just sort of Standard Practice<\/a> . Yeah, theyre trying to diffuse the significance of the fact these stories were killed on behalf of trump by putting them in the context of this being an ongoing practice. Theyre also specifically trying to diffuse the argument which is necessary to the prosecutions theory of the case that the scheme with respect to Karen Mcdougal<\/a> and Stormy Daniels<\/a> was all about helping trumps political campaign, thats the crux of the charge, that this was a scheme to basically disguise Unlawful Campaign<\/a> contributions. And so by showing that ami made these essentially did these favors for other celebrities, it suggested this was not for trump in particular and not for trump in association with his campaign, and so i think when you see that the defense focusing on Hope Hicks Being In<\/a> and out, thats to try to get at the idea that she was not there on behalf of the campaign in a significant way. Thats where i see them going with trying to bring out inconsistencies about whether hope hicks was present or not. If she was involved in these discussions, that ties it to the campaign in a way that was really important. Lets back up for a second. Hope hickss a discussion theyre having today and her role in any of these potential meetings and conversations that took place at this time. On the other hand, they were talking about people like Arnold Schwarzenegger<\/a> and Mark Wahlberg<\/a> and tiger woods and others yesterday who have not been prosecuted for any of the allegations around their deals allegedly with mi, with david peckers publications. So can you just for our viewers clarify what the line is there in terms of legal versus illegal as it relates to these catch and kill stories and deals that were to silence people . Well, what makes the payments essentially on behalf of donald trump different from those other payments with respect to other celebrities is that they were made at least the ones in 2016 in connection with or around, according to the prosecutions theory, his campaign for the purpose of assisting his campaign, and with respect to most of those other celebrities, with the exception of Arnold Schwarzenegger<\/a> possibly when he was interested in running for governor of california, those other celebrities were not running for political office. So those schemes with respect to those stories concerning those celebrities, dont implication Campaign Finance<\/a> laws. Thats what makes them distinguishable and not really relevant for the prosecutions purposes, although the defense is clearly trying to muddy the waters. I want to come back to something you said, john, about how one strategy is to try to sort of poke holes in david peckers memory or make it look like he doesnt have a really good memory. There was a little bit of back and forth ill share from the transcript yesterday where trumps Attorney Bove<\/a> says, quote, there are things that you did not remember very well that you testified about today that you used other documents to refresh yourself on, correct . Pecker answers yes. So clearly the idea, the challenged memory, challenge his credibility, do you think thats effective . Its minimally effective. I mean, theyre suggesting that the prosecutor refreshed his memory and hes saying what the prosecutor wants, but remember, all these other celebrities you started to think maybe this is the david pecker show. With schwarzenegger, for example. All we know is what was in the Tabloid Media<\/a> so we dont have any inside information, but it surely appeared that part of his motive was to protect his marriage because we saw publicly that when this all came out about his mistress and the child that his marriage broke out. Well, i think theyre going to be going there and suggesting with trump that there were alternate motives and the people are not able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that it was to influence the election. But that piece was something that the prosecution got out in front of yesterday in its questioning of david pecker and perhaps it will come back around after the Cross Examination<\/a> when they have a chance to do the rebuttal of sorts. Theres this other part of the transcript, let me read. This was during the direct questioning by the prosecution. The prosecution asks did he, trump, ever say anything to you that made you think that his concern about these stories getting out was for his family rather than for his campaign . Pecker, i thought it was for the campaign. Prosecution, what makes you say that . Pecker, every time we the conversations that i had with Michael Cohen<\/a> with respect to both of these stories the family was his family was never mentioned, and the conversations that i had directly with mr. Trump, his family wasnt mentioned. Jessica. This is a key part of peckers testimony to shore up the prosecutions theory that these payments that ami made and that Michael Cohen<\/a> go to the crux of the case or Campaign Contributions<\/a> that exceeded the amounts an individual under law was permitted to donate to a campaign. Pecker said we were involved with stories with respect to trump earlier in our association with him before he ran for office, and at those earlier times, trump was concerned about protecting his family, but once it came time to be in the campaign when we were in the campaign, trumps concerns were all about the effect on his campaign prospects, and thats what, again, makes these payments and these stories different from all of those others. Lets get another update from our Vaughn Hillyard<\/a> at the courthouse. I understand theyre talking about a 2015 meeting . Reporter you guys were talking about the effort of Donald Trumps<\/a> defense team apparently trying to disconnect this from the significance of the fact that it was intended to cover up stories negative to donald trump before the 2016 election here, and as part of this, i just want to let you look at part of the back and forth that is taking place around that August Of 2015<\/a> meeting to that point. Donald trumps Defense Attorney<\/a> asked pecker, you testified on tuesday that it was your objective to keep the august 2015 meeting confidential. You said you wanted to keep it, quote, as quiet as possible to which pecker responded, yes. And then bove, Donald Trumps<\/a> Defense Attorney<\/a> responds, but it actually became public prior to the election that you were doing these things for President Trump<\/a>, to which pecker responds, yes. Folks will of course recall that the Wall Street Journal<\/a> published a story about the Karen Mcdougal<\/a> arrangement four days before the 2016 election there, and he is currently working through with pecker that Wall Street Journal<\/a> article that came out just before the election. Of course, the jury is hearing this play out in realtime as well. And as part of this, this is making the case through this back and forth between bove and pecker here that this was something that ultimately was openly discussed, that the enquirer had supported mr. Trumps president ial bid, endorsing him and publishing negative stories about his opponents. What he is establishing here, Donald Trumps<\/a> attorney in front of the jury, is the fact that this was already made public before the november election of 2016, the relationship between ami, david pecker and donald trump in an effort to try to keep quiet at least one of the negative stories. Of course that negative story was about Karen Mcdougal<\/a> explicitly, not about Stormy Daniels<\/a>. At the same time here, this is the defense teams efforts to try to make the case that if all of this was just an intended effort to keep it quiet before the 2016 election, then why would they have continued to try to pay off the likes of Stormy Daniels<\/a> and continue to keep this quiet after the 2016 election in 2017 and 2018 as well. Okay, thank you, vaughn. Jon, what do you make of that . I think we still have to wait and see. The cross is just beginning, but dont forget, these are all uncharged activities. The state, the people are trying to make this part of an overall conspiracy. Remember, its Stormy Daniels<\/a> that this case is all about, and we havent gotten to that yet. Right. Stormy daniels was done by three people, donald trump, Michael Cohen<\/a>, and Allen Weisselberg<\/a>. Where is Allen Weisselberg<\/a> . Hes not going to testify for the prosecution. Hes headed back to prison. If his testimony would have been favorable, would have corroborated cohen, i can assure you that the d. A. Would have put him on. He and and why did they make a deal like that . Why did they give him a Sweetheart Deal<\/a> for perjury without requiring his cooperation . I think its because he was not going to say anything incriminating about donald trump. Everything pecker has said so far is essentially background until we get to the main event, which is the payment to Stormy Daniels<\/a>. Its necessary background because we dont have that background in context chlkt the testimony about the deal with Stormy Daniels<\/a> is not going to make a lot of sense, so there is a sense in which were just getting to the most important parts of the story, but i think pecker was an excellent choice for a first witness for the are prosecution because he sets the stage for these other witnesses and corroborates Michael Cohen<\/a> in advance and setting up Michael Cohen<\/a> spoke with donald trump who was personally involved in some of the other conversations. In other cases cohen would say the boss wants to speak with you, and the trump would call pecker. Michael cohen had the authority to speak for trump on other occasions. This is all so fascinating. Thank you both so much for being our guide. Please stay close as well bring more updates from that courthouse throughout the hour to our viewers. Plus, does david peckers testimony give us a clue as to who else will take the stand. Are trumps other cases all but dead in the water before novembers election. What the Supreme Court<\/a> signaled about his president ial immunity argument. And the republican leader who just said president s should not be immune from prosecution. Were back in 60 seconds. Were back in 60 seconds nothing dims my light like a migraine. With nurtec odt, i found relief. The only Migraine Medication<\/a> that helps treat and prevent, all in one. To those with migraine, i see you. For the acute treatment of migraine with or without aura and the preventive treatment of Episodic Migraine<\/a> in adults. Dont take if allergic to nurtec odt. Allergic reactions can occur, even days after using. Most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. Its time we all shine. Talk to a Healthcare Provider<\/a> about nurtec odt from pfizer. Shop etsy until may 12th talk to a Healthcare Provider<\/a> for up to 30 off special mothers day gifts that go beyond the usual suspects. Save on personalized jewelry, original decor and other things moms actually love. When you need a gift as unique as she is. Etsy has it. When you put in the effort, but it starts to frizz. You skipped a step. Tresemme silk serum. Use before styling for three days of weightlessly smooth hair that frizz cant beat. New tresemme keratin smooth collection. This morning donald trump is back in court for his Hush Money Trial<\/a> after yesterdays high stakes legal split screen when trump was stuck in manhattan for his Hush Money Trial<\/a> while 200 miles away the Supreme Court<\/a> was hearing arguments about his president ial immunity claims. The justices seemingly split on this issue with timing running out for prosecutors to get this case to trial before election day. Joining us now nbc News Washington<\/a> correspondent Yamiche Alcindor<\/a> who covered those arguments from the court. Yamiche, it was so interesting, we brought those arguments live to the viewers, to our radio listeners, to everybody who was tuning in. We are now waiting for a decision from the Supreme Court<\/a>. What clues do wech about where this is headed and how it might affect the timing of trumps Election Interference<\/a> trial. Well, of course yesterday was a remarkable day at the Supreme Court<\/a>, and what we really heard from the justices was a deeply divided bench. You heard from liberal justices really them expressing that they were worried that if president s got the sort of Blanket Immunity<\/a> that trump was talking about having that the presidency might become a sort of criminal enterprise. Then you heard from some conservative justices like sam alito who were concerned political opponents might go after president s if they werent given the Immunity Trump<\/a> was talking about. Take a listen to what they said. Will that not lead us into a cycle that destabilizes the functioning of our country as a democracy . If a president sells Nuclear Secrets<\/a> to a foreign adversary, is that immune . How about if a president orders the military to stage a coup . Im trying to understand what the disincentive is from turning the oval office into, you know, the seat of Criminal Activity<\/a> in this country. Now, during the Oral Arguments<\/a>, it sounded like the justices might end up doing a sort of split decision, split ruling here, and it might even go back to the district court, and that would affect timing, which is really critical because of the november election. If we could put it up for folks, we had Oral Arguments<\/a> yesterday and after that the Supreme Court<\/a> is likely to rule sometime in june. If there is a trial, it would start about three months later, and that trial could take up to 12 weeks. All of that could possibly happen before the november election but if this gets sent back to the district court, that would be a win for donald trump. Hes hoping to delay this until after the november election which means he could possibly have the doj dismiss this if he becomes president again, ana. Meantime, Mitch Mcconnell<\/a> was asked about President Trump<\/a> and this issue of immunity. Hes someone who previously signaled the court of law could hold a president accountable. Whats he saying now . Senate minority leader Mitch Mcconnell<\/a> is saying that president s should be held accountable, and he was leaning on the idea that he didnt think that trump and other president s should have the sort of Blanket Immunity<\/a> that hes pushing for. Take a listen to what he told our colleague kristen welker. What do you think, leader mcconnell . Do you think that president s should be immune from criminal prosecution for actions while theyre in office . Obviously i dont think that, but its not up to me to make that decision. The president clearly needs some kind of immunity or wed be in court all the time. Whats interesting, of course, is that Mitch Mcconnell<\/a> was the senator who essentially ushered in donald trump being found not guilty and being acquitted in that senate trial when he was impeached for his actions on january 6th and trying to overturn the 2020 election. Here he is deferring to the Supreme Court<\/a> saying they should decide that when there are democrats saying Mitch Mcconnell<\/a> could have decided this. A lot there and definitely going to be interesting to watch Meet The Press<\/a> when we see the rest of that interview. Thank you so much, Yamiche Alcindor<\/a>, for all your great reporting. Weve been getting a lot of updates from that manhattan courthouse. Our Reporting Team<\/a> is standing by with the latest, and after david pecker, who will testify next. Plus, he said he signed a Cooperation Letter<\/a> with the manhattan d. A. , could other witnesses be cooperating as well . More after a short break. Dont go away. More after a short break dont go away. And its customizable scans with social sentiment help you find and unlock opportunities in the market. E trade from Morgan Stanley<\/a> with powerful, easytouse tools, power e trade makes complex trading easier. React to fastmoving markets with dynamic charting and a Futures Ladder<\/a> that lets you place, flatten, or reverse orders so you wont miss an opportunity. E trade from Morgan Stanley<\/a> vo if you have graves disease, your eye symptoms could mean something more. Opportunity. That Gritty Feeling<\/a> cant be brushed away. Even a little blurry vision can distort things. And something serious may be behind those itchy eyes. Up to 50 of people with graves could develop a different condition called thyroid eye disease, which should be treated by a different doctor. See an expert. 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Thats like getting two unlimited lines for Twenty Dollars<\/a> a month each for a year. So, ditch the other guys and switch today. Buy one line of unlimited, get one free for a year with Xfinity Mobile<\/a> plus, save even more and get an eligible 5g phone on us visit xfinitymobile. Com today. We are keeping our eyes on that courtroom in Lower Manhattan<\/a> where former President Trump<\/a> is in his Hush Money Trial<\/a> and the former publisher of the National Enquirer<\/a> david pecker is in the middle of Cross Examination<\/a>. Lets go back out to our Vaughn Hillyard<\/a> at the courthouse. Vaughn, trumps lawyer has been asking pecker about his negotiations with Karen Mcdougal<\/a>. What are they getting at . Reporter this is all part of the effort here from the defense team to make the case to the jury that this was a longstanding practice on the part of the National Enquirer<\/a> to buy up stories and workshop them, make sure to see whether they were true or not, but also to put out other negative stories about other celebrities or politicians medical record to help boost sales because they are a company that is trying to drive publications sales and make money, and when it comes specifically to Karen Mcdougal<\/a>, there is an exchange here where emil bove, Donald Trumps<\/a> attorney asks her, quote, when you first learned about this, you understand ms. Mcdougal did not want to publish. What she wanted was to restart her career, and ami could help her, to which david pecker responded, yes. What they are trying to lay out is that david pecker was not initially engaging with Karen Mcdougal<\/a> in an effort to, you know, keep her from going public because she never intended to actually go public. Instead, that they were discussing a Payment Arrangement<\/a> in order to help boost her through American Media<\/a>s other publications. Then there is also Dino The Doorman<\/a>, in just the last few minutes, another subject of conversation. Folks will recall he was paid 30,000 by American Media<\/a> to keep quiet his story about an alleged love child, and this exchange, emil bove, he asked pecker, quote, if this story was true, you were going to run it, correct . And pecker responded, yes. Bove goes on, and it would make business sense. You have a fiduciary responsibility to run it, is that correct . Pecker responded, yes. And so in this exchange, theyre using Dino The Doorman<\/a> to suggest that if the National Enquirer<\/a> had actually believed it to be a legitimate story that despite Donald Trumps<\/a> wishes, that they would have run it because it would have been the best selling publication in the National Enquirer<\/a>s history. Ana. Thank you, dont go too far. Lets bring back jon sale and jessica roth, and also joining us Political Strategist<\/a> and attorney richard goodstein. Thank you all for being here. Richard, welcome. Thank you. Ill start with you and get your reaction to what weve been reporting as far as this Cross Examination<\/a> involving david pecker. Yeah, the reason that this is significant from a Criminal Law Standpoint<\/a> is that when it came to these other catch and kill stories, they werent talking about pardons afterwards. They werent talking about being mindful of Criminal Law Violations<\/a> when it came to hollywood celebrities that they might catch and kill their stories. They did here. And i think the reason we should expect to hear from Stormy Daniels<\/a> is because she can give voice to kind of the frenzy after Access Hollywood<\/a> and what it was that was kind of motivating them, which was all about the campaign and nothing about poor melanias feelings, and lets not forget, trumps not going to testify. This will all be unrebutted, whatever she has to say that sleaze in the context of the campaign, thats going to sit out there unrebutted because trump, we know, wont be able to testify because hes just too vulnerable as a witness. Jon, why do you think theyre spending so much time on Karen Mcdougal<\/a>, Dino The Doorman<\/a> when its Stormy Daniels<\/a> situation that is so central to the indictment . I think like jessica said, they want to set the stage for a conspiracy, but the d. A. Has taken the position that this is not about hush money. Thats legal. Its not about ndas. Thats legal. Its about interference with an election, but the more we hear about strippers, the more we hear about playboy models, it is about extramarital affairs, and it is about hush money, and i think the jury is going to start saying is this something we really care about . Is this a criminal violation. We havent heard anything yet about how is the Stormy Daniels<\/a> transaction booked. Thats the underlying crime first before we get to the Election Interference<\/a>. Havent had one word about that yet. And so jessica, we know david pecker has said he entered this cooperating agreement in 2019 with the manhattan District Attorneys Office<\/a>. Do you believe other witnesses could also have received these cooperating agreements . We dont know yet. That was the first time that was revealed that he personally had a nonprosecution agreement to testify. We already knew that ami had a nonprosecution agreement with federal prosecutors, but we learned that david pecker personally has this nonprosecution agreement with the d. A. s office that subjects him to prosecution for perjury, if he perjures himself, but immunizes him from prosecution for his involvement in the schemes hes testifying to. Whether people have nonprosecution agreements, i dont see any indication of that. Obviously Michael Cohen<\/a> has his own history. He does not have a nonprosecution agreement. He never signed up as a cooperator by the u. S. Attorneys office or the d. A. s office. Im not sure who those other individuals would be who might have that kind of immunity, but well have to see because we got that surprise yesterday with respect to pecker. So were only now hearing from witness number one, david pecker. Weve been told that there will be potentially, you know, a dozen witnesses for the prosecution to eventually attack the stand. We havent heard from Stormy Daniels<\/a> or Michael Cohen<\/a> or hope hicks whose name came up today as we understand it. Who do you think, richard, trump would be most fearful of to hear their testimony . Hope hicks. Look, she could conceivably have been threatened with a conspiracy charge because if the reports are true that she was in on these calls talking about the coverup and how to book it and so forth, i mean, she was personally vulnerable. Well find out. But she was like a daughter to donald trump. She traveled everywhere with him. She was on that Campaign Plane<\/a> when it was like two of them and maybe kellyanne conway, and she knew where the bodies were buried. She knew the dirt on donald trump. Id have to imagine if she takes that stand it will be scary and mortifying for trump to sit there knowing that hes muzzled, he cant say anything in response and he doesnt want to offend her, and yet he knows what she knows. That seems to be the biggest risk to him. Jon, who do you think the next witness is going to be . Theyre going to call anybody who they think can corroborate Michael Cohen<\/a> because Michael Cohen<\/a> recently, a very respected federal judge judge furman wrote in an order that he thinks Michael Cohen<\/a> may have committed perjury recently. Michael cohen, there was never a camera, never a tv show he didnt go on. Now, i dont blame the media for that, he was a great find, but i have never seen either as a prosecutor or a defense lawyer, a cooperator Go On Tv Time<\/a> and time again before they testify just to demonstrate his bias against trump and his desire to make trump go down. I think theyre going to devastate Michael Cohen<\/a> on cross. So you dont think hell be the next one up, jessica who do you think will be the next one . I think if it were me trying the case, i would try to really shore up what david pecker has said so far about the scheme that he was involved. So if hope hicks is available and can really corroborate what david pecker has said thus far and shed be a strong witness, then i would go to her next. I would lockdown those facts that david pecker has given us and corroborate them and later move into the Stormy Daniels<\/a> part of the story. Depends how much time they have left. Do you want to end strong before the weekend. It depends how much longer we have of cross of david pecker. How long will be the redirect. If they have only a short window of time, maybe they want to do a short records custodian witness to get that in and done before the weekend and leave david peckers testimony primarily in the jurys in the mind over the weekend. It depends how long they have to do it, and how strong they think hope hicks might be. Richard. I think if they only have a short period of time and they can put her up there, even if its not to finish really just to kind of tease, have the jury sit with that over the weekend with some idea about whats to come, i mean, and frankly, trump himself i think starts dissolving even more and gets more unhinged than he already has knowing, oh, my god, shes really going there. Shes republican cooperating with this prosecution. He probably until this moment isnt sure, although im sure hes put feelers out. I think once he knows that thats been established, thats a frightening possibility. Lets hear from trump and how he seems to be is internalizing whats happened in the court. This was him just yesterday. I tell the truth. I mean, all i can do is tell the truth. Are you more or less likely, do you think, to take the stand in the manhattan case right now . I know well, i would have if its necessary. Okay, so those are two different clips, obviously. One was yesterday. The other was previously. So jon, we heard him in the first clip, which was earlier i dont know if it was this week or last, im trying to remember now, it all runs together, but he was saying i absolutely will take the stand. Now hes saying if necessary. What does that tell you . The decision is his. Its not the lawyers, but any good lawyer, hes got good lawyers will beg him, yell at him, scream at him, do whatever, do not testify, but he doesnt have to testify because hell hold his Press Conference<\/a> outside every day, play to the bigger political audience, but hes not testifying. In the mueller investigation, he kept saying i want to talk to them. I really want to talk to them, but my lawyers wouldnt let me. Then ill answer written questions, the clock ran out. He never talked to them. He never attempted to. Hes not testifying here. Richard, trump has often indicated he thinks hes his best messenger, and that he can be convincing to the American People<\/a> versus his aides or in this case to a jury perhaps. Do you think its possible he would want to testify . I think hes smart enough look, remember when he said during the campaign, if you take the fifth, it means youre lying, and then he proceeded to take the fifth dozens and dozens of times in a case that was on videotape. Weve seen this. So look, i dont know that anybody takes what he says and attaches any weight to it. Hes just such a liar and he has said i dont lie about things, and if you were the prosecution, you could spend days going through all the things we know. Talk about covid, about whatever, that hes lied about, and so i just think i agree with jon, either he insists overbears his lawyers will and insists he takes the stand. I dont see that happening. I could see the lawyer base basically saying im out. His freedom is at stake here in way that in other contexts when hes tried to assert himself, the stakes havent been as high as they are here. And hes got not just this case, but others to worry about down the road about whether he would testify there, and again, i just think he just makes you know, he faces a Perjury Charge<\/a> if he takes the stand, so i just dont see it, notwithstanding his brag doe show about how great a messenger he is. Please stand by, much more to discuss. Were going to fit in a quick break. Weve got the gag order issue to deal with, and well talk about that on the flip side. Stay with us. Out that on the flip side. Stay with us they need their lawn back fast and you need Scotts Turf Builder Rapid Grass<\/a>. It grows grass 2 times faster than just seed alone. Giving you a stronger lawn. Smell that freedom, eh . Get Scotts Turf Builder Rapid Grass<\/a> today, its guaranteed. Feed your lawn. Feed it. 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Lets go back to the courthouse, Rehema Ellis Is Standing<\/a> by for us. It seems like the defense is trying to use this line of questioning to damage cohens reputation. What can you tell us . Reporter it really does seem that way, ana. When you take a look at it, peckers being asked questions about Business Relationships<\/a> that Michael Cohen<\/a> wants to establish in the future. For example, hes talking about a Company Named<\/a> ai, pecker apparently was the chairman, that the chairman of ai did not want cohen in the position. Michael cohen apparently had gone looking for a job with him. Then the defense is talking about Michael Cohen<\/a> was talking about working with mark cuban, and he asked pecker for help, and the Defense Attorney<\/a> is saying he asked you to send paparazzi to photograph a meeting between cohen and cuban, is that right . Pecker says thats right. He says he thought that would put pressure on President Trump<\/a>. And bove says thats right again. Again, as you were pointing out, it seems very clear here that theyre trying to make Michael Cohen<\/a> out to be someone whos not as desirable as a Business Partner<\/a> as it seems Michael Cohen<\/a> would attempt to paint himself in terms of his relationship with donald trump. And, again, that may go to poking holes in the upcoming testimony thats expected to come when Michael Cohen<\/a> is called to the Witness Stand<\/a>. Ana. Rehema ellis, thank you for the update. Please keep us posted. Jessica, it sure seems like the defense is determined to damage whatever cohen could potentially say and to try to damage the credibility of cohen. Hes somebody whose credibility is already very damaged, right . So what does that tell you about how worried they are perhaps about what cohen is going to testify about . Well, this is what we would expect, which is the prosecution is trying to corroborate Michael Cohen<\/a> and shore up his credibility in advance through the testimony of david pecker, and now the defense are trying to do the opposite, which is theyre trying to use this opportunity with pecker, first witness on the stand to poke holes in Michael Cohen<\/a>s credibility and so that they can do it now and set the stage for why the jury should believe Michael Cohen<\/a> when he himself takes the stand. And they have an opportunity to bring out all the reasons he shouldnt be believe, his bias towards trump, his having committed crimes including lying under oath. Theyre just trying to sort of set that stage and plant in the jurys mind this idea that cohen is not to be believed before they ever get to cross examining cohen himself. Jon, if cohen is such a flawed witness, do they need him . Oh, they need him to prove the crime thats charged. I mean, the crime thats charged, underlying false Business Records<\/a> was booked to reimburse him for legal fees, so hes at the center of this, but one of the things that makes david pecker such a good witness, cooperator, is he admits everything he did wrong and he takes responsibility for it, and hes here just to tell the truth, whereas Michael Cohen<\/a> is trying to walk back all of his misdeeds in the past. He pled guilty in federal court, not only to participating in this, he pled guilty to tax evasion, which is a false statement. False statements to banks, lying to congress, and the office, Southern District<\/a> of new york u. S. Attorneys office that jessica and i proudly worked in, when he was sentenced, they wrote, the u. S. Attorney wrote in the sentencing memo, they said he was convicted of four separate crimes, quote, they each involved deception and were each motivated by personal greed and ambition. Thats the u. S. Attorneys office in the Southern District<\/a> about Michael Cohen<\/a>. The case is about Michael Cohen<\/a> and if you dont believe Michael Cohen<\/a>, i think the jury has to acquit. It will be interesting to hear and see his influence on this jury and how the prosecutor navigates this Potential Trap<\/a> i guess you could say. Everybody stay with us. Richard, well come to you on the other side of another quick break. Please stay with us. Youre watching our personal coverage here on msnbc. R personl coverage here on msnbc psst psst ahhh with flonase, allergies dont have to be scary. Spray Flonase Sensimist<\/a> daily for nondrowsy long lasting relief in a scent free, gentle mist. Flonase all good. Also, try our Allergy Headache<\/a> and nighttime pills. With Schwab Investing<\/a> themes\u2122, its easy to invest in ideas you believe in. Spot a trend in electric vehicles . Have a passion for Online Gaming<\/a> . Or want to explore the Space Economy<\/a> . 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I actually think that this notion that somehow he forgot some things, i actually dont think that goes to his value to the prosecution of painting this picture of this pretty substantial conspiracy. Again, he cant speak to the records, but he can speak to the backdrop that the jury has to take into account, so i actually think that the redirect could be rather short, and i actually think, again, there would be some incentive for the prosecution, if they could, to get it. Whoever the next witness might be, to do something before the weekend starts that lets the jury kind of mainate about something that, again, would help the prosecutions case. Jessica, lets turn to the gag order because theres still no ruling on that. We had a hearing earlier this week. The prosecution alleges that trump had made at least ten posts that were in this week that the prosecution alleges that trump had made at least ten posts that were in violation of the gag order. And yet this is lingering. Why do you think the judge has not ruled yet . I imagine the judge is taking some time to think this through carefully. Perhaps hes going to issue an order that includes legal analysis as well as factual findings, maybe a written order, im not sure because this could be subject to appeal. If i were him, i would be concerned going into the weekend without having addressed this because there is going to be lots of opportunity over the weekend for trump to continue to post, especially if, for example, hope hicks announced as the next witness, you want to be protective of the witnesses going into that weekend, so they dont get concerned about actually showing up to testify truthfully on monday. Also the jurors. Trump has tweeted about the jurors and that also would be of grave concern to me as the judge about the potential for there being more posts that would make jurors reluctant to come back to court to fulfill their duty on monday. I imagine hes being careful, taking his time to write something that is well reasoned and distinguishes among the different posts if necessary, so it is not just entirely finding trump in contempt with respect to every time the government sought it so it will hold up on appeal. As we discussed, such an unprecedented situation, so unusual to be in this situation. The gag order, a former president , a candidate for the presidency, again, and yet the District Attorneys Office<\/a> is alleging that trump is still violating this gag order, even since that hearing, including what he said about david pecker yesterday before court. Take a listen. What have you thought of david peckers testimony so far . When is the last time youve spoken to him. Hes been very nice. David is a very nice guy. John, what we heard there, hes a nice guy, that doesnt sound like an attack of david pecker. Is that a violation of the gag order . Theyre holding their ammunition. I think are they trying to influence david pecker . When i was a young watergate prosecutor, i thought we had won the battle that no one is above the law and i thought that that was last in memorial. Now, trump is violating the gag order. I dont think it is a closed question. The difficulty is what is the judge going to do about it and the d. A. Said were not asking for incarceration. So what is the judge going to do . He has to follow the law. If my client did Something Like<\/a> that, they would be in jail, i mean, there would be a hearing, handcuffs on before they ever have a hearing. What the judge is going to do incarceration, i just dont think is a realistic option. It would make trump a martyr. And so, politically, what do you think trump wants the judge to do . I mean, trump is trying to use this gag order politically to his benefit, right, richard . And is he trying to egg the judge to try to incarcerate him . I can imagine two things happening, neither of which happened yet. One is, i can imagine the judge putting trump on the Witness Stand<\/a> and basically reading him the gag order, reading him his statements, and asking him whether he understands the ways in which what trump has said is violative of the gag order. To basically put The Fear Of God<\/a> in him. I think if he was to order some jail time, it would be suspended and prospective and basically but a warning, like, this could get worse, and ill let the Secret Service<\/a> worry about it at the time, once this trial is over. I just think for trump, the problem with all the gag order stuff is, again, it shows his contempt for the rule of law, as we heard from his lawyer yesterday, the Supreme Court<\/a> saying he could kill his opponents. I think when joe biden says it is scranton values over maralago values. He says we have seen people like trump in our lives who look down on us, were nauseated by people like that, and i think there is a lot of people out there who can relate to that, and i think when trump thumbs his nose at this lawyer, at this judge, and well see what the consequences are, i think that reinforces the notion, yeah, i dont want that again for four more years in the white house. John, you were asked to at one point defend trump in these legal troubles that he is embroiled in right now. As you see this Hush Money Trial<\/a> unfold, do you have any regrets in turning him down . Well, i was just not able to do it at the time. So, i dont look back. But sorry to keep coming back to Michael Cohen<\/a>, but hes a defense lawyers dream to examine. I would love to jump in, in my dreams, and crossexamine Michael Cohen<\/a>. I dont have any regrets. I think now trump has good lawyers. And i think what the biggest challenge is the whole world is watching this case. And i think we all want is for trump to get a fair trial, no matter what we think of him. If he gets a fair trial, if hes found guilty, hell be held accountable. If hes found not guilty, earning way our system works. Hes trying to campaign, even though hes stuck inside the courtroom, hes talking about the possibility of having a big rally at Madison Square<\/a> garden. He does have the day off on wednesdays. Typically, for this court. What do you think of that strategy, richard . He talked about a rally in Madison Square<\/a> garden in february. Again, i dont know who of us should assign weight to anything that donald trump says. Just like he said some weeks ago, he was for sure going to testify. And now we know hes going to use this excuse, if necessary, his lawyer had advised him it is not, which is nonsense. I think he doesnt have any rallies this past wednesday. Right . And so for all his talk about, you know, his needing to being taken away from the campaign trail, i think it doesnt ring true. Well, everybody, i appreciate the conversation. There is all more questions to ask and i would love to get all your thoughts as we continue. Thank you for being here with us today. Lets continue the conversation another day. John sale, jessica roth, richard goodsteen. Thats going to do it for us on this busy newsweek. Have a wonderful weekend. Well see you back here monday, same time, same place. Im Ana Cabrera Reporting<\/a> from new york. Jose diazbalart picks up our coverage right after this. Jose diazbalart picks up our coverage right after this. Upbeat music woman ugh, of course it stops loading at the best part. tony hale you need verizon. Get their crazy powerful network out here, and get six months of disney bundle on them vo stream with six months of disney bundle on us. And watch it all on the new Samsung Galaxy<\/a> s24 , also on us. 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