Leaving from washington, i am washington steel in for my friend jen psaki. Shes wrapping up a well deserved vacation and will be with you next week. We have a lot to cover tonight, so settle in. I do want to begin with a headline. Trump employs images of violence as political fuel for reelection fight. You might be thinking, yeah, i saw this over the weekend. After all, donald trump posted a video on his social media site depicting President Biden with his hands and feet tied up in the back of a pickup truck. At the same time on that same site, trump not only lashed out at the judge presiding over his new york criminal trial, but also at the judges daughter. So, yeah. I would say he is employing images of violence in his re election fight right now. Folks, that headline is not from over the weekend. Its from September Of 2020 almost four full years ago. And the fact that it very well could have been published today should serve as a stark reminder that donald trump has always been this guy. He has always been the guy who glorifies political violence, who embraces it to rev up his base. He has always been the guy who operates out side of the typical norms in politics, business, and law, addresses, spins, and twist those systems into pretzels any chance he gets. And he has always been the guy who breaches protocol more times than he has abided by it. But just because hes done all these things before doesnt mean we should normalize it, or even be numb to it. Manhattan d. A. Alvin bradsher isnt becoming numb to it. No, he is not. Late today, District Attorney brad once again urged them to push back on his behavior. He wants the judge in the criminal Hush Money Case to expand the gag order to also protect Family Members of Trial Participants. He writes that trumps dangerous and violent and reprehensible rhetoric fundamentally threatens the integrity of these proceedings and is intended to intimidate witnesses and Trial Participants alike. And he points out that there is no constitutional right to target the family of this court. The defendant knows what he is doing, and everyone else does, too. And we all know that is very true, because we seen it with our own eyes. Trump has brought violence to our politics, and he has brought disorder to our legal system. He has turned every courtroom he enters, and there have been many, into a circus. Using hallways like a soapbox to spew outrageous and inflammatory lies. He is, in effect, putting his trials on trial. He has intimidated witnesses, violated gag orders, and has relentlessly attacked anyone holding him accountable, including, again, judge merchan and his daughter, who is a private citizen. At the end of the day, we know everything we need to know about donald trump. We know who he is. And yet, despite all this bad behavior, these judges are still giving him the benefit of the doubt as if he were an ordinary defendant. No one else no one else could ever get away with the crap that donald trump gets away with. He is acting like a visceral animal, in politics, business, and law. That is a constant. That is one thing we know that is not changing. So enough is enough. The system now needs to adapt to the thing in front of it before it is consumed by that very thing. And on that point, have some breaking news. Judge merchan has just cited with District Attorney bragg a few moments ago. He expanded the order to protect members of the court and that the d. A. Office. She is the former Acting Assistant Attorney General for National Security at the justice department. Also with us is former federal prosecutor, and my buddy, glenn kershner. Let me start with you. The d. A. Has just come back with this ruling moments ago. I know hes been focusing and scouring over the paper here. Tell us what you find in this. What should we need to know about what the judge has done . Predictably, judge merchan expanded the gag order to include Family Members of the judge and the court staff, of the prosecutors office. That is wonderful. Donald trump is laboring under a hat trick of, shut up, because there are three gag orders that have been in place over time. The judge with the d. C. Federal prosecution, judge koran in the new york civil trial, and now judge trance seven in the i dont call it a Hush Money Case. Its the 2016 election interference case that includes Hush Money Payments that were then covered up with false business records. Has it done any good . Has it helped . You just said a minute ago, donald trump is putting his trial on trial. Is putting the criminal Justice System to the test, and i think the system is failing. The reason i said that is because, you just read in part the first sentence from the motion that was filed, and it reads defendants, dangerous, violent, and reprehensible rhetoric fundamentally threatens the integrity of these proceedings and is intended to intimidate witnesses and Trial Participants alike, including this court. To this prosecutor, the only sentence that makes sense coming after that assertion is therefore that people are moving for pretrial detention. Listen, we have four criminal cases, four jurisdictions, there are different rules in every jurist action. But the fact that no judge and no prosecutor has stepped up actually put a strop to trumps dangerous rhetoric is a real problem. Thats were glenn put his finger on the pulse of what really irritates the heck out of me about all of this. Because that sentence should follow the beginning of that. What is your take on the judges expansion of this gag order, and how do you see other judges and other trials that trumps is before sort of assessing and dealing with this ruling. I think the reason he expanded the gag order was less about his daughter and more about the message that trumps gets if he doesnt expand it. And more about the message that potential jurors get if he doesnt expand it. I think he is now very worried. And this is something that the d. A. Raised in their papers, very worried that people are going to be extremely reluctant to service jurors to have any witnesses. Theyre going to start, you know, become reluctant, and maybe even be nervous about telling the truth on the stand, because they feel like they are targeted. As well as their families. So to me, this was the judge saying, look. Ive got to take this step here to take a message that the administration of justice will not be impinged by this conduct of donald trump. He also says, we are not in a David And Goliath situation here where the government is allpowerful, because trump himself has a substantial motive as any. Lets pick up on that bully idea, because what Donald Trumps lawyers have argued is that he has the constitutional protection of free speech to say these things, to go after his daughter. How does that factor into this particular ruling, and is that an element that really prevents what glenn says should happen next from happening . Theres no question the defendant has First Amendment rights, but those rights can be constrained and you are in a courtroom facing a trial and criminal case and in a civil case. The Supreme Court has been very clear about this, that is the obligation of the judge to ensure that the defendants behavior wont impact the administration of justice, and that could be through things like gag orders. Its few other restraints, too. You have to ensure that the defendant gets a fair trial, but that also means the public and the government get a fair trial as well. And i think one of the things that glenn has pointed out, and that we talked about, you know, in other shows, is that the judges, even when theyve issued these gag orders, that was a civil case, so that was different. They did not actually make those part of the conditions of release, and required mr. Trump to sign that he understands his conditions have now been expanded. If he violates them, his release can be revoked. Instead, the remedies here are things like Contempt Of Court for violating a court order. That can result in time in jail, so its not toothless, i think for those of us were former prosecutors, its unusual that these restrictions on speech were not Just Incorporated into the conditions of release. Donald trump will violate this gag order in three, two, one i mean, when that happens, what happens . You dont have, you know, the defendants on the side saying, i acknowledge all this, and this can happen to me. How do you see this playing out when that happens, because you know it will . Financial fines, and, you know, who cares . There were minor fines put in place with the civil case when he violated the gag order. I agree with mary. In theory, you could be held in contempt, you could be confined to a brief period of time, but i go back to the fundamentals of the law. The law ordinarily says when you were a defendant on pretrial release, particularly in serious felony cases, and donald trump has four serious felony cases, if there is clear and convincing evidence that you pose a danger to the community or even one person in the community, you can be detained pending trial to neutralize that threat. And i just push on that point . You pose a danger to the community. They hear that, they are thinking, this guy is a violent actor. He someone who has harmed someone and is now being prosecuted. This is, in one sense, you know, a situation where there is no physical harm. Its just donald trump running his mouth and saying crazys tough that may or may not result with some idiot out there picking up, you know, some action. How does that get squared by the court in a situation like this, where that language, at least intuitively to someone who is listening to it from outside of the system, would hear, well, that may refer to someone who has shot somebody or done some physical harm to someone. So let me rely to what one of the Appellate Court judges said not two blocks from here during the Gag Order Argument to the d. C. Federal Circuit Court of appeals. When Donald Trumps lawyer made that point, a minute. Hes not responsible for what his supporters do after he post something. And the judge said, wait a minute. Theres a clear pattern here. Donald trump post the name of a witness and threats ensue. He knows this. He cant disavow it. Its what he intends by posting the names and photos, not to mention he was seen holding a baseball bat midswing at the prosecutors had. So lets not say, well, these arent crimes of violence. Donald trump is all about violence. He is just using his words to accomplish his evidence. And so what does that mean for average joe and jane out there, who is a potential juror in one of these trials . And they are seeing this, they are hearing this, and i you really get what glenn is saying about the judge sort of anticipating that to say everything is off limits now. Family, court clerks, all of that. Does that really give some solace to a potential jury . Or should i put Something Else in my coffee . Thats what judge merchan is trying to do. The end of his order warns the defendant the defendant is hereby warned that any violation of this order will result in sanctions, which is contempt sanctions. What is trying to do is send a message that i do take this seriously. Dont be worried, joe and jane, potential jurors, because we will take action. But i dont know if thats good enough, because we will see what donald trump does. To your point in the opening about violence and to the clients point, i think what we are on now is just a slow or not so slow development of, you know, a longrange incitement to violence. Because we have the photos of President Biden hogtied and kidnapped in the back of a truck. We had these incendiary violent remarks about witnesses and prosecutors and judges. And this is all about, you know, getting his base ready to take action. And you know, unfortunately, our law doesnt protect and site meant to imminent violence, but that violence, he wanted to come. Thats why hes doing it. I think theres a high likelihood it will come, and imminence is really hard to judge with a man like donald trump. All right. Thank you guys for very much for being here at the moment it all pops. Really appreciate it. Coming up, more breaking news. Donald trump is just posted his bond in this new york civil fraud case. Justin snell is standing by, is a former Assistant Attorney General in new york and he joins me in about 60 seconds. Try Dietary Supplements from voltaren, for healthy joints. i did just pay 60 less for my ticket with the gametime app. its the best place to get lastminute deals on tickets. i guess im just a better fan than you. Crowd Cheering ive got to get the gametime app. download the gametime app and use promo code viva to get 20 off your first purchase. weve got more breaking news to bring you this monday evening. Donald trump has posted a bond in the amount of 100 75 million in the civil fraud case in new york that he is planning to appeal. It was provided by the californiabased company nye insurance. Joining me now is justin snell, the former Assistant Attorney General for new york who led the office his investigation into trump university. He is also the author of the book taking down trump. 12 rules for prosecuting donald trump i someone who did it successfully. Tristan, thank you very much for joining us. I know youre just pouring through the filing, but what stands out to you, and what are you finding . Well, first off, im still trying to get information, just as you are. I really, really hope that thats 100 25 million and not 175,000. Right. 175 million was already in my view way too low. I think the Appeals Court watched this badly by allowing him to get off the hook, letting him, you know, be able to post much less and give him more time to do it. You know, as i said, i think its a can to taking 18 i was going to lose a Basketball Game by 40 points and giving them five more minutes to play and lowering the hoop from 10 feet down to 6. It shouldnt have happened, and now we see where it gets us. Just to clarify, it is 175 million. So where does this take us down in this appeals process. What does it look like, what should we be expecting . Look, there was always a chance in this situation that the court would lower the amount that trump would have to pay. Theres also a chance that they could vacate or overturn the judgment entirely. I think the odds of that are lower. I think there is an absolute mountain of evidence supporting the finding of fraud in this case. It is possible and now i will say it looks likely that the Appeals Court will lower that award down from 464 million down to something that i still hope is going to be more than 175 million. We have to remember something here, michael. Every dollar that trump is being asked to pay now is a dollar he shouldnt have been lent to begin with. And would not have been lent were it not for all of his lies. How does this play out with other folks out there in the Financial Markets who are looking at this whole process, given that there are other scenarios in which trump could be held liable . How does this 175 million bond win the judgment when it was 454 million it reconciled . What is the rest of this story with respect to the difference between what was what was awarded versus what what he has to put up for bond. Look, i think anybody who is looking to lend trump money or underwrite anything for him right now has got to be looking at this and saying, what next . It is not a great situation for him overall. If you have other different loans outstanding with him, how well is he going to be able to actually repay these. I think that ultimately, hes not going to win this appeal. You might get it lowered, but i dont think hes going to win. I dont think is going to win the appeal against e. Jean carroll. I dont think thats happening. Again, that could get lowered a bit. I dont think its going to get lowered all the way to zero or anywhere close. So if you lend money to donald trump, especially given his track record, i think that might not have been the best idea. Put that money to some other uses. Like all things with donald trump, how long do you think this is going to take . Is there something that, you know, we should be looking at being dragged out, or is this something that could get turned around pretty quickly . Yeah. Donald trumps biggest weapon when he is trying to evade justice i talk about this a ton in my book, is delay. Ultimately, what are all these distractions . The clown car full of lawyers. What is he trying to do here . Hes just trying to throw sand into the gears of justice. Try to actually stop it from happening, and that he hopes that this is going to cause other things to break his way. And in the context of the election, its hoping that its going to allow him somehow to win and then be able to wave some sort of magic wand and monarch or dictator his way out of all of this. So i think he is going to try to delay these appeals for as long as he can. Critically, i think the ags office should be trying to seek expedited review of this case, as donald trump is already moving money around. He moved 40 million out of the Trump Organization to pay private legal costs that he had. A tax bill, but some of the money he owns to e. Jean carroll. He did that against a court order, in violation and basically away from the eyes of the Court Ordered monitor. So theres already a clear track record here that donald trump is the financial equivalent of a flight risk. Hes trying to make this money disappear. As a result, the ags office should say, we need to move faster before all of this money is gone, and the right of the people to this mone