Transcripts For MSNBCW Velshi 20240704

Received documents. The department of justice, from their investigation into Michael Cohen and the Stormy Daniels payments from several years back. The office has subsequently turned over the documents. About 1000 miles down i95 in florida the former president was in court in person in the classified documents case. Trumps team argued that she should dismiss the entire federal case claiming the documents trumped up with him were personal records and thus excluded from the president ial records act requirement. We await judge cannons decision on that. She decided to reject a separate motion to dismiss the case. That trial is still set to start in late may. North of florida, nathan wade has reside from his role as prosecutor in the racketeering case against the former President Donald Trump and multiple codefendants over efforts to overturn the results of the 2020 president ial election in georgia. That came shortly after the judge overseeing the proceedings ruled that Fulton County District Attorney fani willis should not be disqualified from trying the case as a result of her romantic relationship. The judge wrote it caused no actual conflict in terms of prosecution of the case but did present a quote tremendous lapse in judgment. Judge mack if he did said her office for leaning on the case and that is that Special Prosecutor nathan wade must go. Otherwise, he wrote the appearance will remain which some note could taint a jury pool. A quick resolution is important because it means that case could be tried before the november general election. Had willis been disqualified and removed, her team wouldve been as well and a different prosecutor wouldve had to take over almost certainly leading to a trial delay given the ri amount of time and work from willis and her office over the last two years. Joining me now is melissa, a former Fulton County District Attorney and Assistant Professor and Prosecutorial Justice Program director at the university of georgia. She is a professor of law at p nyu. The cohost of the strict scrutiny pro cost and pro author of trump indictments the Charging Documents with commentary. Both women are msnbc legal analyst. Both are named melissa. First, congratulations on the book and special that you did last night about it. Very relevant to this issue because all of these cases are about executing donald trump and the indictments against him. Lets discuss what you think d happened in georgia. How much, if any, of a setback is this to the prosecution or is it mostly just a win . This is a win for her certainly. Shes allowed to stay on the case. If she had been disqualified that would have been devastating for this prosecution and for a timely trial. There is chum in the water for fani willis. Shes not atout yet. Theres already a Congressional Investigation Headed by jim jordan into whether or not she is using prosecution. That will i think accelerate as this is now behind her but other issues loom. Theres a possibility that a State Commission composed primarily of republican appointeesil may have the opportunity to investigate her. This is part of a larger dynamic in many red states with ugly cities where State Commissions have been appointed to try and limit the authority of blue local officials. That will face a number of challenges including legal challenges to the composition of the commission and its charge. That may be an issue going forward. Shes not Out Of The Woods yet and there is still the question of whether or not all of this has created a negative impression in the minds of potential jurors. Obviously a judge will instruct the jurors otherwise to disregard anything they are hearing about both the defendant and in this case the prosecutor. Fani willis is a political figure and up for reelection, and elected fiDistrict Attorney and adding to all the stuff Melissa Murray just send is there any potential effect on the trial even though there is no legal effect of anything that happened between fani willis and nathan wade . Does it influence the legality . Will there be an impact . Its hard to determine this early in the case. As we talked about before we are so far from Jury Selection its difficult to say how this i will affect those who will be picked to decide the guilt or innocence of the defendant. We know ms. Willis is up for re election. Thats the best indicator of how the residents feel about her conduct of this case. I believe she will survive that election. I believe the people of Fulton County will rally behind her. They will get her through the obstacles she faces in those other forms with state bar complaints, the senate at the investigation and what will surely be a forthcoming investigation by the newly formed oversight commission. I believe they will rally behind her. All of that will also be public. As far as how it affects the trial, i dont believe it is relevant to the determination of guilt or innocence of the defendant and i would hope judge mcafee would limit how those issues come into play during the course of that trial. The effect of the jury is something i think thats a little early to try to figure out. Melissa, theres several th people who have said that he was stretching a little bit. He was quite critical of fani willis. He said there was no Conflict Of Interest that there mightve been a perception of impropriety that will affect the outcome. In your opinion, was the judge putting his thumb on the scale . I was asking Melissa Murray. I have to be very specific. Occupational hazard. We talked about this last night. I do think that judge mcafee went beyond his remit. Some language was a harsh and even a little startling. He noted an odor of mendacity still attends this entire prosecution. That could be viewed as this judge perhaps priming prospective jurors. Melissa redman noted we are far from Jury Selection but it is unusual for the judge to have such sharp language, especially in an order conceding that there is actual Conflict Of Interest here. It seems to be Beyond The Pale and a bit like a Public Scolding for fani willis and nathan wade. You were a deputy d. A. This case in manhattan is interesting because the d. A. Had asked for documents on the Southern District of new york which is part of the department of justice. I dont understand why there are 100,000 documents and why it took so long to get. We have a potential delay a real delay in this case which was supposed to start on march 25th. What do you make of whats o going on in new york . I can tell you as a State Prosecutor is difficult to get information from the federal system. On the state level you are responsible for turning over any information on the prosecution team. That includes Law Enforcement or any other agency that is relevant to your case. That information is pretty easy to get. As opposed to the federal system you ask. You cant subpoena information. You can ask if you have information relevant to this may i have it please . I imagine that is what happened in this case. It wasnt turned over to them in the manner im sure they an wouldve liked it as soon as they received it they turn it over to the defense and they were obligated to. Thank you to both Melissa Redman and Melissa Murray i will ask you to stay with me for a few moments. Coming up, my conversation with the Human Rights Activist and a wife. One exception is my brave friend who was. Todays meeting of the book Club Features the National Book Award Finalist American Street. A comingofage story following an immigrant from haiti. Today is particularly crucial. At the center of the book is Haitian Culture and identity. Dont miss this book. With nurtec odt, i can treat a migraine when it strikes and prevent Migraine Attacks, all in one. Dont take if allergic to nurtec. Allergic reactions can occur, even days after using. Most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. Ask about nurtec odt. Okay yall we got ten orders coming in. Big orders starting a business is never easy, but starting it eight months pregnant. Thats a different story. I couldnt slow down. We were starting a business from the ground up. People were showing up left and right. And so did our Business Needs the chase ink card made it easy. When you go for Something Big like this, your kids see that. And they believe they can do the same. 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Back with me now is Melissa Murray, a professor of law at nyu. She is the coauthor of the new book, the historic Charging Documents with commentary. Lets talk we have these cases against donald trump and then we have the Supreme Court which is chiming in and not chiming in on various aspects of this. What the Supreme Court does as it relates to donald trump will be determined in any or all of these cases going forward. What are you looking at and expecting in the coming days and weeks from the Supreme Court . Nothing in the coming days because the court made clear they dont see the sense of urgency. The justices have that immunity appeal. They declined to take it up in december when jack smith asked to bypass the Court Of Appeals and go directly to the Supreme Court to determine the question of whether a president is criminally immune from liability for acts undertaken perhaps during the course of his presidency, perhaps outside of the scope of presidency. The court slated that question for argument on april 25th. The last day of the term. We dont know when the court will render a decision. To be clear, they didnt have to do this. They could have taken this back in december when jack smith asked. They could have decided this i simply affirming the d. C. Circuit decision which is very deliberate and methodical. I dont think you can look at this case without also looking at their decision in the disqualification case from colorado. That was nominally a unanimous decision to invalidate the colorado disqualification, but there is a concurrence from three justices. In terms, ive actually never seen from the court they essentially called donald trump an oath Breaking Insurrectionist four times and specifically said their colleagues on the right were trying to insulate this court in this from further challenges going forward. I think that was meant to signal to the public that perhaps some portion of this court is really in the back for donald trump. Its never moot because these are important questions, but theres some worry if the Supreme Court falls victim to either wittingly or unwittingly to Donald Trumps delayed tactics he could win the election and become president and maybe some of these will be answered. Whats your worst Case Scenario about this . What could happen if theres enough delay that no criminal case its completed before the election and he wins . WorstCase Scenario has already happened. The fact the court hasnt dealt with the immunity question, which honestly, both the court and defendant have interest in seeing it evolved weekly. Donald trump, having raised the claim, should want to see it resolved quite quickly. The fact the court has delayed the discussion to April 25th Is De Facto immunity for donald trump because it makes it unlikely that the January 6th Case that jack smith filed in the d. C. District course is going to go forward and theres still lingering questions about immunity that will also attend the maralago documents case. That may be a complication. The court is essentially thrown a wrench in the works and its not very likely that two of the most consequential prosecutions will go forward. Showing our history as descendents of postcolonial states. Good to see you as always. Thank you for being with us. Melissa murray is a professor of law and msnbc legal analyst. Still ahead, the voting is neither free nor fair and it follows a brutal crackdown including the jailing of the opposition leader, journalist and my friend Vladimir Kara murza. Ill speak with his wife evgenia karamurza next. On en. Theres a better option than handwashing. Switch to your dishwasher and cascade platinum plus. It uses the power of dawn to thoroughly clean your dishes removing 99 of grease and food residue. So all you have to do is. Scrape, load, and youre done cascade platinum plus. Dare to dish differently. The company goes to the first born audrey. The Model Train Set is entrusted to todd. Mr. Marbles will receive recurring deliveries for all of his needs in perpetuity, thanks to autoship from chewy. I always loved that old man. Whats it say about the summer house . Yeah, the beach house. The summer residents goes to mr. Marbles. Plot twist. Im sorry, what . Doesnt make logistical sense . Unbelievable. Pets arent just pets. Theyre more. You got a train set todd. Save 35 off your first autoship order. At chewy. Heres to Getting Better with age. Heres to beating these two every thursday. Help fuel today with boost high protein, complete nutrition you need. Without the stuff you dont. So, heres to now. Boost. vo if you have graves disease. Gritty eyes could be more than a rough patch. Now. People with graves could also get thyroid eye disease, or ted, which may need a different doctor. Find a ted Eye Specialist at isitted. Com. Tourists tourists that turn into scientists. Tourists photographing thousands of miles of remote coral reefs. That can be analyzed by ai in real time. So researchers can identify which areas are at risk. And help life underwater flourish. When Vladimir Putin invaded ukraine in 2022 he planned for a three day war to capture the capital of kyiv. With fighting entering a third year as the backdrop russia is in the midst of holding its treat a president ial election but do not be fooled by the fact that votes are being cast. Its a Conclusion Put in will win and remain in power for another sixyear term because this election is neither free nor fair. When putin declares victory it will mean he remains in power until at least 2030 giving him three full decades at russias home. Its important to note the post soviet union russia constitution, which passed in 1993, did have president ial term limits. Two consecutive fouryear terms. In 2008, after having already served two consecutive four year terms gave up the presidency and became the countrys Prime Minister. He still ran the country pulling the strings in what many say was a puppet president. Putin returned to presidency in 2012, but only after increased the length of residential term from four years to six years just in time for putin to come back to power. In 2020, putin ran through a package of constitutional amendments. 206 to be exact. Buried inside was a provision that essentially reset his term limits granting him the right to serve two more consecutive terms as russias leader. Allowing putin to stay in power until 2036. While the election is neither free nor fair there are other candidates running against putin on the ballot. They are all approved and they dont criticize putin or the war in ukraine. One president ial hopeful is a member of parliament. He was barred by the kremlin from appearing on the ballot. Other have faced worse. Just last month, he died in a russian version north of the arctic circle. Writing from A Siberian Prison in his latest piece for the post, the russian politician argues that russias own constitution our reason for the worlds democracies to reject and not recognize putins victory. Vladimir karamurza was arrested in april 2022 after he appeared on this very program for daring to speak out against putin and his invasion of ukraine including calling it a war, something that is illegal to do in russia. I was in ukraine at the time covering the war when i spoke to Vladimir Karamurza. We all have a price. We know the cost. We also know there are millions of people in russia who are opposed to the regime. They are doing both in terms of external progression. There are many people who want our country to be a normal democratic european state. I think its demoralizing with those of us who would all just leave the country. I do not condemn anybody but if youre asking about me im a russian politician, russia is my country, my home. Im rooting for you. You have been a source of my information for many years. I worry on your behalf. Vladimir karamurza has since been sentenced to 25 years in prison on charges that include treason and speaking out against the war in ukraine. He now suffers from multiple health issues. Before his imprisonment, they had poisoned him two times. He survived. Despite being in prison, kara murza remained defiant and critical as ever. It was written from the Special Regime Prison Colony in russia. Karamurza writes western leaders often speak of their determination to stand up to the kremlin. Sometimes the most powerful tool of all is simply telling the truth. Putin is not a legitimately elected president. He is a dictator and the usurper. Its time the free world finally said so. Joining amy now, evgenia kara murza. A Human Rights Act Fitness , advocacy for the Progressive Foundation and the wife of Vladimir Karamurza. Its good to see you again. Good to see you too. And you for having me. Lets start what vladimir is calling for from his jail cell. Tomorrow, putin will declare victory in the election. What do you and Vladimir Kara murza think the u. S. And the worlds democracy should do . How should they react . I completely support my husband and his opinion that Vladimir Putin should be declared illegitimate. There are clear legal grounds. Its not everything that my husband wrote about in this article in the washington post, theres also the fact that these socalled elections will be held on occupied Ukrainian Territories where people are basically forced to accept the russian citizenship in exchange for humanitarian aid or medication. No such procedure can be accepted by the free world as a legitimate procedure and no such world leader elected through this procedure can be seen as a legitimate partner on the international arena. I believe it is high time the free world said so. For years we discussed this and you have. This idea of Vladimir Putin is a pariah on the global stage. What is it the rest of the world can do . The outside world to get to him . You know, just living what they preach. The value of human life, democratic principles, standing together with those who fight these regimes around the world. This is what can be done. Putin needs to be stopped. It is absolutely clear that, for as long as hes allowed to remain in the kremlin, warmongering will continue and pressure will continue as well. We know that according to a recent independent media investigation, since 2018, at least 116,000 russians have been subject to direct repression through administrative or criminal cases which means that in Vladimir Putins last term alone there have been more political prosecution and more political trials then during the era. The success rate of those prosecutions is somewhat upward of 97 or something. We went through the ways in which Vladimir Putin has been able to secure his rule in russia. People got the chance to vote despite democratic principle slipping away. Many look at russia from the outside might not realize just because civilians can vote does not mean elections are free and fair. What is it that you have to tell the world about russian elections . The last time there was a free but not Fair Election held and that is according to International Organizations in 2003. Since then, every election in russia has been stolen. We see the reaction of russian citizens during this socalled election when people are wearing paint and ink in ballot boxes, throwing Molotov Cocktails at Polling Stations and one can say that these are absolutely pointless acts because they end up in criminal prosecution of these people will probably end up behind bars. It also shows how completely enraged many russian citizens are about being lied to. Completely ignored through the years. I also know that tomorrow, forces are calling for russian citizens to go to Polling Stations at noon around the world and russia included and i know the Prosecutors Office already declared that voting at noon on the 17th Of March will be seen as a criminal act and will be followed by criminal prosecution because it will be seen as a participation in an authorized rally. Evgenia, i have to ask you. Our friend wrote about this about a dinner that you and vladimir and bill and his wife had in london before vladimir Left For Moscow in which bill asked him not to worried about his safety as many of us did. This is very hard for you. Youre very brave, but this is hard. Youve got a mission and youve got a husband in jail. We have just seen what has gone through. Tell me about you and what you are doing through this. I lived with my husband for 20 years. I share his views and opinions about russia. I share his vision about russias feature. That is a beautiful vision. That is a vision where russia will become a democracy that will respect the Rights And Freedoms of its own citizens and live in peace with its neighbors. That is the russia my husband is fighting for, thats the russia that Alexei Navalny was fighting for. So many of my colleagues and people in russia are fighting for. I believe that now the best thing i can do for my husband is to stand with him and continue his work as best i can and also it is my duty as a russian citizen because i am devastated by the aggression against ukraine that has been ongoing for two years already. I am devastated by the fact that our country is in the hands of a usurper and wanted criminal. Let them your putin is wanted it for kidnapping ukrainian kids. This person is subjecting the russian population to absolutely atrocious repression. It is my duty to fight against this, to do the best i can. Thank you. Thank you for giving us the closest thing weve got to a very clear inside look about the repression and lack of democracy that exists in russia. Evgenia karamurza is the wife of the Opposition Politician Vladimir Karamurza. She is a Human Rights Activist and advocacy director of the free russia foundation. Coming up, the book Club Features a look at identity and the socalled American Dream. Its also pulled from the Headlines Story Exploring Haitian Heritage and racism. Im talking about the National Book Award Finalist American Street. Do not miss this conversation. Detect this living with hiv, craig learned he can stay undetectable with fewer medicines. Thats why he switched to dovato. Dovato is a complete hiv treatment for some adults. No other complete hiv pill uses fewer medicines to help keep you undetectable than dovato. Detect this leo learned that most hiv pills contain 3 or 4 medicines. Dovato is as effective with just 2. If you have hepatitis b, dont stop dovato without talking to your doctor. Dont take dovato if youre allergic to its ingredients or taking dofetilide. This can cause serious or lifethreatening side effects. If you have a rash or allergic reaction symptoms, stop dovato and get medical help right away. Serious or lifethreatening lactic acid buildup and Liver Problems can occur. 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Except when you add on an all new footlong sidekick. Were talking a 2 footlong churro. 3 Footlong Pretzel and a five Dollar Footlong cookie. Every Epic Footlong deserves the perfect sidekick. Order one with your favorite subway series sub today. I turn now to the caribbean nation of haiti which is engulfed in Gang Violence and political turmoil. The threads of the Current Situation go back decades, that random been 2021 following the assassination of the democratically elected haitian president. In the aftermath a group of several nations including the u. S. Helped install then Prime Minister ariel henry as the president. He was elected and haiti is failed to lead elections sense. Henry is extremely unpopular in haiti and the rise of powerful rival gangs. Late last month while henry was on a trip outside of haiti the gangs united taking over the capital of portauprince. Escalating the ongoing violence and demanding henrys ousting. Henry is currently in puerto rico and agreed to resign but wants a new government brokered by a Multinational Coalition which includes the United States. You can imagine the humanitarian aspect has reached Crisis Levels with hunger engulfing the island. At least 362,000 people are displaced. 5 1 2 Million People are in need of immediate humanitarian assistance. As cass continues the neighboring Dominican Republic is bracing for more migrant rivals amid ongoing tensions between those two countries. Gabe gutierrez has more. A catastrophe is unfolding in haiti. Each day people running for their lives, the Gang Violence and portauprince Now Trapping Americans caught in the crossfire. Hundreds of stranded u. S. Citizens registering at the state department. A missionary and her family are stuck at a motel near the countries shuttered airport. Shes desperate to get back to florida in time for her daughters wedding and instead shes ducking for cover. We did hear gunfire right outside at the gate and it was very scary. We all went running and turned off the lights and hid in our room until it went away. Amid concerns of a mass exodus from haiti the Dominican Republic increased patrols along its border and the u. S. Is considering temporarily housing haitian migrants at Guantanamo Bay like its done before. In the dominican border town, haitians were briefly allowed to cross into this closed off market but if they went too far illegally we saw bus after Bus Deporting them. This widow, mother of six told us she was desperate for food. We dont have work, we dont have a president , we have nothing she says. The u. N. Announcing it is launching a humanitarian corridor in the sky to bring over humanitarian aid from the Dominican Republic across the border into haiti. We also met a man who says hes from miami but as he recently visited family in haiti again overtook his bus leaving him with no passport and no way out. They took all my stuff, my documents, my bags, my phone, my money. This is the edge of chaos. A humanitarian crisis and yet another border. That is nbcs gabe gutierrez. I worry its too easy to separate the human beings from the headlines. How to keep yourself from forgetting these people youre looking at have families, Communities Just like yours . Haiti, gaza, ukraine. One way to not separate the humanity from statistics is to read. Our Velshi Banned Book Club came about accidentally. We didnt plan to have a book that so powerfully examined both the American Dream and haitian heritage. Its a book that resonates on any day but today its more poignant. After the break we open up a National Book Award Finalist, American Street by ibi zoboi. You dont want to miss this. J. P. Morgan Wealth Management knows its easy to get lost in investment research. Get help with j. P morgan personal advisors. Hey, david ready to get started . Work with advisors who create a plan with you, and help you find the right investments. So great getting to know you, lets take a look at your new investment plan. Ok, great this should have you moving in the right direction. Thanks jen. Get ongoing advice; and manage your investments in the chase mobile app. Shingles. The rash can feel like an intense Burning Sensation that can last for weeks. Shingles could disrupt work and time with family. Over 50 . The virus that causes shingles is likely already inside of you. Dont wait. Ask your doctor about shingles today. Todays Velshi Banned Book Club, American Street by ibi zoboi, begins and ends the same way , through a window. On one side of the glass doors are the long lines of people with their photos and papers that prove that they belong here in america, that they are allowed to taste a bit of this free air. On the other side is me, pressing my four head against the thick seethrough wall. Sat on the corner of American Street and joy road in detroit website, the book centers on 16 yearold fabiola toussaint. Her aunt and three cousins. Born in detroit but raised in haitis capital city portau prince, Fabiola Immigrates back to the United States with her mother to reunite with their extended family, finish high school and live on this side of the good life. When her mother is detained she finds herself on the streets of detroit left without a parent. Soon, she faces gain violence, drug use, Police Brutality and a powerful loss that forces her to question who she is and where she belongs. Seamlessly coupling accessible language and frank storytelling with magical realism American Street is equal parts in Immigration Story and comingof age story. Ibi zoboi capitalizes on familiar tropes to create a nuanced work that reads as fresh and honest. While most of the story is told to us by fab there are entire chapters rented in italics dedicated to the Point Of View of secondary characters. American street is a stark look at contemporary American Life in an underserved city. Its a story of survival, identity, community and family. At its core, American Street is a celebration and exploration of Haitian Culture, especially religion. Fab uses haitian voodoo spirits to orient herself in the unfamiliar detroit cultural landscape. Her cousins abusive boyfriend is the keeper of death. The man who sits on an overturned plastic bucket outside fabs window is papa legler who stands at a spiritual crossroads. Her refusal to reject her ideology is not a means to preserve her identity, but a way to survive. These are my guides. I need them now. I have to call on them. If there ever was a time that i needed to pray, to poor libation , to ring the bell, to rattle the us on, to sing a song so all my ancestors, so god can hear me, it is now. Fabiola does make it to the other side of the glass as both an american and a haitian. I stare out the window as we drive out of michigan. I pressed my four head and fingertips against the glass. On the other side of the wide free road. Unlike in haiti, which means land of many mountains, the ground is level here and stretches as far as i can see as if there are no limits to dreams here. Right after the break im joined by ibi zoboi, the author of the National Book Award Finalist and todays Velshi Banned Book Club feature, American Street. Get enough each day. Good thing Metamucil Gummies are an easy way to get prebiotic, plantbased fiber. With the same amount of fiber as 2 cups of broccoli. Metamucil gummies the easy way to get your daily fiber. With nurtec odt, i can treat a migraine when it strikes and prevent Migraine Attacks, all in one. Dont take if allergic to nurtec. Allergic reactions can occur, even days after using. 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And did we mention, it really, really sticks . Salonpas, its good medicine. You can make money the hard way as a bullfighter and did we mention, it really, or a human cannonball. Or save money the easy way, with xfinity mobile. Existing customers can get a free line of our most popular unlimited plan for a year not only will you save hundreds but youll also be joining millions who have connected to americas most reliable 5g network. Sure is a lot safer than becoming a stuntman for money. Get a free line of unlimited intro for a year when you buy one unlimited line. Visit xfinitymobile. Com today to learn more. Joining me now is ibi zoboi, author of American Street , todays Velshi Banned Book Club feature. A New York Times best seller and finalist for the prestigious National Book award. What a great honor to have you here. Thank you for having me. What an introduction. We appreciate the book youve written and the reason it is so important in this day is i gave that long description of what is going on in haiti. Its complicated, but its been complicated since i was a kid. Before that. We are probably from the same generation and haiti has been like this my entire life. I was born there and came here when i was four. I remember watching the dictator being ousted on television and i was in fourth grade. Its something part of my reality. I want to look at fabiola describing living through the deadly 2010 earthquake in haiti. It rained dust and screams and prayers. I was in the middle of it all standing on two skinny legs with my wet hands, alive, unbroken after all. After the hurricane, the american televangelist made the headlines from blaming a haitian devil packed on the earthquake. With haiti back in the news today, how do we work on shading the american understanding of haiti and what needs to happen there without falling into that nonsense was to mark the racism, the tropes, the misunderstandings . The wonderful thing we have now is the internet. We have the media and wonderful faces like yours where the news is being told to us but we have social media where we can push back against some narratives. When i was growing up that was all you heard. Haiti is the poorest in the Western Hemisphere. Now we can say portauprince is not all of haiti. A neighborhood in portau prince is not all of portau prince. We want to push back against that narrative that haitis culture, 80s spirituality is not the reason why its in the situation it is now. Im so thankful for so many voices and the books that i write in the books that others write to push back against those narratives. American street features haitian voodoo as a spiritual guide, as a Spiritual Foundation that helps my character through her journey and is not something that is evil or wrong or the reason why she or other haitian people are expensing this. As we talk in the introduction so much of this is grounded in fabs spirituality and religious beliefs. Its one of the ways in which she is different from her americanized cousins. From the book, you got your voodoo stuff in there she asks. You have to treat it with a little more respect its not just my voodoo stuff, its my life. Without it your dad. Ive never been without my prayers and my songs. What do you hold onto . I self, my family, hopes, dreams, stuff like that. Yeah. The thing about the Americanization Process is we discard certain things and when we hold onto certain things. There are haitians in haiti who do not practice haitian voodoo, a strong christian population at the same time those who do really use it as a source of power and strength when they come here. Theres a lot of cultural retention for haitians. I wanted to highlight that in the book and because its important and a valuable part of our history and culture. I got into a taxi the other day and the driver was haitian. He said can you please tell the story of whats going on . Tell it and tell it correctly. When he said tell it correctly i wondered what he meant because when we tell stories of places in conflict it is inherently dehumanizing. I had this Lovely Gaza Brother And Sister on my show in the last hour, regular people who want the same thing that everyone else does. Thats the same in haiti. It can look like chaos, but its regular people. Its real people and the chaos is not out of nowhere. There is a long history of how other countries, other facets of this world have really shaped how haiti is. There was a u. S. Occupation from 1915 to 1934. There was the money paid out to france after the haitian revolution. All these things affect how Haitian Politics Play Out today and we have to tell the full story and not just that single story of chaos and that people are inherently corrupt and un organize. Haitian people can organize themselves. They have. Absolutely. They can do it again. That might be what the cabdriver is telling me. One thing American Street does is it talks about Police Brutality. Fabs Love Interest is murdered in detroit. She makes the point that Police Brutality existed in both homes. Youve ever seen it could get some on the face with boots . Not stomped on the face but beaten with a baton in the back by police. Yeah. These two teenage girls are just comparing their experiences. They are black experiences, global back experiences. There is Police Brutality in haiti and the perpetrators of violence look like you. Thats a very different perspective, but its still violent and dehumanizing no matter how you slice it. I grew up in new york city and the way you think about new york city in the 80s it was not the new york we know now and i did see Police Brutality happening it was on the news. I wanted to kind of that staying out of the frying pan and into the fire this idea of the poorest country in the Western Hemisphere and maybe one of the poorest cities in the countries and what sort of comparisons can you make between those two experiences through the lives of teenage girls . In the 1980s the poorest in america was in the south bronx. You literally were going from the frying pan to the fire in some cases. Nice to see you. Thank you for being here. I really appreciate it. Ibi zoboi is the author of American Street, the New York Times bestselling book. That does it for me. Thank you for watching. 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