Now. Thank you for joining us. Im ana cabrera in for chris jansing. Disciplined but not disqualified. A Judge Issuing A highly anticipated decision over Misconduct Allegations against fani willis. She can remain on the Election Interference case against former President Trump, but under one major condition. Well break it all down. Plus donald trump is on the offensive. His legal team vowing to fight to end the georgia case, how his Campaign Plans to use his court dates for political gain. And the big question hanging over it all is when will the trials actually take place. The one we thought was set to begin here in manhattan could now be delayed. And this as special counsel jack smith battles to keep his two federal cases on track. This hour we have a team of corespondents and legal experts set to explain where the Time Line Stands for each of these trials. But lets begin with the breaking news out of georgia, judge scott mcafee ruling that fani willis should not be disqualified from prosecuting the Election Interference case against former President Trump and his 15 remaining codefendants. But there is one major condition. Willis, or the special prosecutor she had a relationship with, nathan wade, must step down from the case. In his ruling the judge writes there are reasonable questions about whether willis and wade testified truthfully at last months evidentiary hearing. And he says those questions further underpin the finding of an appearance of impropriety and the need to make proportional al efforts to cure it. But the judge made clear in his ruling that the evidence demonstrated that the financial gain flowing from willis relationship with wade was not a motivating factor on the part of the District Attorney to indict and prosecute this case. Todays ruling comes days after some of the charges against trump and his codefendants were dismissed. Lots to discuss with katie phang who is following this closely and also Christy Greenburg and lisa rubin. Katie, what else can you tell us about the reaction from those directly impacted . Sure. So what is notable about this ruling from judge mcafee is the absence of a deadline. Meaning he did not tell Fani Willis As the Fulton CountyDistrict Attorney you have to make your decision by a date certain. So we dont really know when and how fani willis will decide. We did even radio out to her office for comment, have not heard back. But to your second question about what has been the response, well, there has been two comments that weve received, one from the lawyer for trump that was particularly strong about the disappointment that they had in this ruling and they will chase down any and all available remedies on appeal for his client donald trump. But Ashley Merchant responded to us, and she is the lawyer representing michael roman, a known gop off difference, Ashley Merchant filed the original motion to disqualify and dismiss. And she said while we believe the court should have disqualified Willis Office entirely, this opinion is a vindication that Everything Put Forth by the defense was true, accurate and relevant to the issues surrounding the trial. And the judge clearly agreed it was a result of her poor judgment and there is a risk to the future of this case. While we do not agree that the courts suggested cure is inadequate, we look forward to the District Attorneys response to the demands by the court. Well continue to fight for our client. Now, Ashley Merchant making this statement in response the judges ruling you but clearly noticing that there is now in front of Fani Willis A choice, to either step aside with the entirety of her office or allow nathan wade to withdraw. And there is a possibility that fani willis herself could step away from the prosecution of this case. That move actually would not disqualify or remove her entire office. Somebody else including the two special prosecutors that have already been appointed in this case, they could continue on that prosecution team. So i would make note that is a possibility, but of course as you all know, this has been a very long investigation. It was a very long time to get the indictment in this case. And so we not only want to see a trial date to see if it is before november or what will be the next steps and who will be at the helm. So christy, katie did a great job of laying out the choice here. Is it an obvious choice . I think fani willis will Ask Nathan Wade to step down, but i dont think that it will end the inquiry. It may end it for judge mcafee, but the judge has very Strong Language here about how fani willis handled this, saying she had tremendous lapses in judgment and he questions whether she in addition to nathan wade were truthful on the stand. And he all but invites and he lists a number of different entities, the general assembly, the Georgia State either things commission, Georgia State bar association, the Fulton County board of commissioners and voters of Fulton County and says these Unanswered Questions about whether or not she testified truthfully can be taken up by the other entities. So this is not over. Whether or not we see nathan wade resign, this is not over for fani willis. She will likely have to answer to a number of other commissions. And there is a commission recently created by legislation in georgia to be able to discipline and remove District Attorneys in georgia. And it seems like that legislation was motivated by wanting to get rid of fani willis. And now they have an opinion which says that there are questions about her credibility and that it was legally improper for her to make these comments about criticisms of her decision to Hire Nathan Wade and whether or not that was playing the race card. He says here that was legally improper and that there could be a gag order on the District Attorney as a result of that. So again, it is a choice she has to make. I think she will stay on, but it is not over for her. Do you think the judge made the right decision . I think the judge felt that he had to look not just at whether there was an actual conflict of interest. He interpreted the law as saying he had to also look at an appearance of impropriety. And he said look, i cant really say whether either side was telling the truth about when this relationship started. It started about looking at just financial you know, whether or not there was a financial benefit. And then it morphed into wait a minute, are they really telling truth on the stand. There were questions about whether nathan wade lied. He said things in his divorce papers. He omitted information that was clearly responsive about when he was in a relationship with fani willis. And she stood by him on making those statements under oath when he doubled down the judge clearly had a problem with that and had to address it. This case was complicated enough to begin with. Now this major istraction which i think safe to say has delayed prosecuing the case on the time line fani willis would have liked. Are we looking at a different case we may have seen three months ago . Lets start with the fact that Ashley Merchant filed this motion leading to todays decision on january 8. So we have lost two plus months in the prosecution of this case doing nothing other than addressing the underlying motion and the way as christy described it sort of morphed into ever different inquiries about the veracity of nathan wade and Fani Willis As opposed to whether or not their romantic relationship and related Financial Entanglement presented disqualifying conflicts of interest. In terms of the substance of the case, the decision that the judge entered yesterday dismissing those six counts doesnt meaningfully change what the case looks like Going Forward. However as somebody else noted earlier today, it does change the incentives for certain of the defendants to plead out. Particularly for someone for example like mark meadows who is now only facing the rico count. He is one of the five most important defendants here. It may be that he will never be given an opportunity to plead out. But for some of the others, it may change how they look at this particularly if the eight who brought this motion plan to appeal judge mcafees ruling with respect to Fani Willis Stay on the case. Melissa redman is also with us. She is a former Fulton County deputy District Attorney. Im curious if fani willis were to say nathan wade, step aside, how long could that take to replace him and what do you see as the broader impact . We know nathan wade has been on the case since the beginning, since it was being presented to the special purpose grand jury. We also know that this is a very broad team, a deep bench. So she has different special prosecutors already available who could take over as well as prosecutors employed within the office already assigned to this case. It appears mr. Wade was more of the strategist and the coach so to speak of the team. So i dont think that it would be that difficult for one of those other members of the team to step up and play that role as strategist, as the one who is kind of determining the theory of the case, how the case is going to proceed and those Strategic Decisions that have to be made as far as the Plea Recommendations and the responses to the motion. So i think because this is such a deep team, i believe that his removal of the case will not further delay it from the prosecutions standpoint in getting the case ready. I dont think that it will cause them any reason to not stick with the District Attorneys initial statement that whenever the judge wants to try the case within 30 days, they will be able to start picking a jury. I dont think that that will change based on mr. Wades removal. This is your former office, so what is your sense of how all of this has affected the reputation of that office and fani willis personally . Well, i believe that since these allegations were so intertwined with the personal lives of prosecutors, so i dont think that there is and the judge even indicated there is no evidence that has been presented. And he further mentioned that the defendants had every opportunity to present whatever evidence they had to show that she had a personal interest in this case, that she was doing anything other than what was in the best interests of the public in pursuing these particular offenses. So although her reputation as far as how she made this decision to hire who she had or why she made the decision to hire someone she had a personal relationship with, ultimately as far as how she was doing the job of District Attorney in the county of fulton i believe the members, the residents of Fulton County, are not going to use this as any means or anyway of believing that shes doing anything less than they expect of her in carrying out the duties. I think this is kind of an unforced error absolutely in hiring someone you are in a personal relationship with or maintaining that relationship after youve hired them, but as far as how shes doing her job, the cases shes prosecuting, how shes prosecuting those cases in the courtroom, i think that is what most residents of the county will be concerned with. Lisa, if the case doesnt go to trial before the election, which is seeming more and more likely that that is the case, this would still be a legal cloud hanging over Donald Trumps head even if he is reelected to the white house. Right . It wouldnt go away. He doesnt have power over a state case, right . He doesnt have power over state case nor can he pardon himself. However, i think that in the event Fulton County were to continue to prosecute someone who became a sitting president , we would see litigation all the way up to the Supreme Court. Remember the question is whether and if so to what extent a former president is entitled to immunity from criminal prosecution for conduct alleged to have been official. That is with respect to a former president. But it is not narrowed to state versus federal prosecution. In fact it is left openended. So if donald trump were to be president again and if Fulton County would still have this case ready to be tried, i suspect that discreet evidence, can a state prosecute a sitting president would be litigated all the way up to the Supreme Court. So again just one of four criminal cases right now facing donald trump. And well discuss some of the others as we move forward this hour. Thank you all. Tonight watch the trump indictments, an msnbc special, they will break down the cases against the former president , discuss precedent for criminal charges against a former political leader and share time line of the critical events that led to the four indictments. Watch the trump indictments, it is tonight at 10 00 p. M. Eastern right here on msnbc. In 60 seconds, the Trump Campaign on the offensive, how the former president plans to use his legal troubles and trials for political gain, next. christina with Verizon Business unlimited, i get 5g, truly unlimited data, and unlimited hotspot data. So, no matter what, im running this kitchen. vo make the switch. Its your business. Its your verizon. Fair, freckled, or melanated. We are appreciated. Ultra hydrated. Glazed and glowing. Confidence overflowing. Vaseline lotions 90 more moisture for my oneofakind skin. And theres no other skin i want to be in. Breathing claritin clear is like. is he . Confidently Walking 8 Long Haired Dogs and living as if he doesnt have allergies . Yeah. Fast relief of your worst allergy symptoms, like nasal congestion. christina with Verizon Business unlimited, i get 5g, truly unlimited data, and unlimited hotspot data. Fast relief of your worst allergy symptoms, so, no matter what, im running this kitchen. vo make the switch. Its your business. Its your verizon. Book with new reaction from Donald Trumps legal team. In a statement posted to the Trump Campaign website, the lead Defense Counsel argues they did not afford the proper significance including the financial benefits. And he promises the team will, quote, use all Legal Options available and continue to fight to end this case. This comes as nbc news has new reporting on how the Trump Campaign plans to use his court dates for political gain by attacking President Biden to muddy the water with voters and in the process make the legal issues a less significant issue. Lets bring in one of the authors of that nbc news report, jonathan allen. And also along with sam stein, Politico Deputy managing editor for politics. Also with Us White HouseChief Of Staff under president obama. Thank you all for joining us this afternoon. So sam, give me your assessment of how this Fulton County decision affects the 2024 race. Trump obviously spent a lot of time attacking fani willis. What does it mean for him politically . They obviously wanted the case dismissed. They didnt get that. Probably muddied the waters enough that they will go to their corners and believe what they want to believe. But in the aggregate, their preferences dont have any of this going on at all. That is no longer likely to be the case. We most likely will still have a trial in new york. And yes, these were advantageous for trump in a primary campaign. It rallied the base and helped him statistically with fundraising. You saw a massive spike in fundraising for his political committees. But we havent tested that proposition in the general election. And i think for better or worse, i would think they would rather not have the conversation of Media Coverage be on him in a courtroom. He will be in a courtroom potentially for six weeks when the new york trial begins. And that greatly prohibits the type of campaigning that he can do. So i dont know if this is a net benefit for him like it was during the primary. John, tell us more about how trump plans to use his court dates for political gain and could this Fulton County decision play into their strategy. Sam did a good job of explaining sort of the Thinking Inside Trump world in terms of recognizing that this is not good for them and the best they can hope for in talking to people around him is to neutralize the iss