Candidate appears before the judge he appointed. The fact she is eve holding this hearing is facilitating the delay we have seen. What this hearing means for the trump trials. The only thing thats Donald Trumps arguments today merit are an eye roll and a swift denial. Then, how a Maga Delusion is officially taking hold of the rnc. People say well lets be like the democrats and vote early and ballot harvest, no, you lose your country. As republicans threaten reproductive rights across the country, a historic show of support for women in the form of a planned parenthood visit. When we talk about a clinic such as this, it is absolutely about health care and Reproductive Health care. When all in starts right now. Good evening from new york, im chris hayes. Donald trump spent the afternoon where he spends many afternoons these days in court. He attended a procedural hearing in florida. The case where prosecutors accused him of stealing highly classified Government Secrets and then willfully Obstructing Justice by hiding the stolen documents and repeatedly lying about it. Now, this case, i will admit, has receded a little bit from public memory in large part i think because of the rather glacial pace which it is moving. That is thanks to judge one Aileen Cannon plucked from obscurity by donald trump. She was just 39. Cannon was confirmed by the senate in that brief Lame Duck Session after trump lost the 2020 election. She is now the one presiding over the documents case. She has done her best to slow the speed of the case down to a crawl. It is worth keeping the details front of mind because they are really truly damning. That is why one key witness came forward to basically circumvent judge cannons Delay Tactics and share what he knows immediately with the American People ahead of novembers election. Bryan butler, a multidecade employee of maralago says he unwittingly helped trumps Codefendant Move boxes of classified documents to the plane on the same day trump was to meet with prosecutors about the documents at maralago. You noticed that he had boxes . Oh yeah, the boxes in the indictment. The white bankers boxes. Thats what i remember loading. Did you have any idea at the time there was potentially u. S. National security secrets in the boxes . No clue. I had no clue. We were just taking them out of the escalade and piling them up. We were lifting them up to the pilot. Again, trump is meeting at maralago with the fbi about the documents they say he has as butler and nada are loading said documents onto a plane. Butler recounted trumps attempt to cover up the crimes with a conversation with another at maralago. I said oh, by the way, walts coming tomorrow. Cool, thats great. Okay. It wasnt until the following day when we are out walking he said by the way, its a secret. Dont anybody walt is coming. And, why . Well, he needs me to find something out before he gets here. Oh, whats that . He needs me to, how long the Camera Footage is saved at mar alago. Im like oh, well, thats odd. Why do you need the Camera Footage . Why do you need to know how long it is saved . His response was i think they are looking for somebody that was there. I think the American People have the right to know the facts that this is not a witch hunt. That claim from the ex president , this is all a Big Witch Hunt is effectively what his lawyers organized in cart today. They tried to get the case dismissed this afternoon using some tortured legal logic including a claim that the law was unconstitutionally vague. The judge ultimately rejected that particular argument today choosing instead to basicically quick the question down the road. Sort of not really resolved. But in some senses that is beside the point. As we keep hammering day after day on this program. Trumps main goal is to run up the clock. That is really the crux of the whole issue. Both federal indictments are incredibly damning. But even with access to small dollar donors, legal bills will continue to pile up. With the best representation available, the expresident s best bet was never seeking an acquittal by a jury of his peers. The evidence against him is simply too strong for that. No. His best strategy was to simply find ways to delay all the cases on him until november when he could potentially get elected president and then as president , order his own Justice Department to abandon the pending cases against him. And that seemed like a wild strategy play. In all honesty, it likes like he might get away with it. Often times delays happen in the judicial system. Even when judges are acting in good faith. The expresident is accused of bribing a porn star about keeping quiet about the affair they had while melania was at home taking care of their newborn son. This was paid just weeks before the election. It was supposed to go to trial in a matter of days but both sides have agreed to push it back. Discovery material made available to new york prosecutorrers. Braggs office has asked for a one month delay. Trumps lawyers asked for three months. We have seen a delay in the Fulton County georgia racketeering case for potentially inappropriate relationship fani willis had with one of her prosecutors and whether that constitutes a conflict of interest. They are different in scope and motivation from the other weaponnized Delay Tactics. Members of the judiciary, donald trump hand picked for their jobs. Like, the Supreme Court of the United States with the extreme sixmember majority, three of whom owe their Lifetime Tenure to the expresident. They have bent over backwards by sitting on his appeal for weeks. Scheduling arguments for the latest day they are allowed. It is all a part of what looks to all the world at least at this point like a flagrant bid to push trumps january 6th trial until after the election. That brings us back to judge alean cannon in florida. Through the luck of the draw, she was assigned the trumps documents case. Every single moment where she could choose between expedition or delay, she has always chosen to delay. Now is when the rubber hits the road. She will have to set a real trial date. We will see if she chooses the most obvious one. Delaying his trial until after the election. It is entirely possible. Why one conservative congressmen commenter said he was dealt a good hand. It was looking only like it was because he hired the dealers. Lisa rubin and tim williams, former federal prosecutor. Senior Investigative Council of the january 6th committee. And they join me now. Lets talk about the goings on in florida today. Judge aileen. Donald trump in the room. Some part of me says he is there to remind her who appointed her. It is double sided. Trump shows up to remind the people who favor him and he shows up to intimidate the people who dont. When he had discovered that it doesnt work with some of those people, he stopped showing up as frequently. For example, with judge. But with Aileen Cannon, he will continue to show up because it reminds her what might await her if she continues playing his cards right. The hearing was on motion to dismiss. One of which was that the charges were unconstitutionally vague . The defendant has a constitutional right to understand what he is being charged with. If a statute is too vague meaning you cant tell what conduct is being prohibited, that is unconstitutional. And what trump was arguing today is that the Espionage Act was unconstitutional because it was too baying. Now that is a frivolous motion. The kind of motion that judge cannon could have taken on the papers. Read the briefing and decided without an entire hearing she did today. Judge did that all the time. What she should have done here, so, her coming out and then issuing this order, right afterwards, and dismissing that which was obviously a prewritten order ready to go i think further shows she could have decided this immediately and move thirddegree along quickly and chose not to. This is an example of taking the loppinger route. Its like you got the maps program pulled up. You can take the quick route or the longer route. She took the scenic route. I want to illustrate how scenic it is, chris. She didnt just say im dismissing your motion. She said im dismissing it without prejudice which means they cant take an appeal from it. And she is kicking the can just further down the road. She is not saying the question about unconstitutional vagueness of the Espionage Act is resolved. She says i still have questioning about this. They might be better resolved at a later stage of the proceeding so, your motion is denied without prejudice. You can renew it at a later date. So that is keeping the door open. Just to be clear, the Espionage Act was passed by woodrow wilson. It is on the merits a deeply flawed piece of legislation. A bad piece of legislation. But the reason i bring this up, is unlike a claim to president ial immunity in a fairly novel circumstance, the unconstitutionality is not some novel new argument you have to wrestle with. People have been charged and sentenced under the willful Retention Prong of the Espionage Act four decades. Over and over again. This is not Appellate Court or the Supreme Court. She is bound by a higher court precedent. So, the realistic mess she was going to come out with an entire new framework was unlikely for that reason as well. I try to keep checking myself. I dont want to fall into the pattern i think trump and others fall into. To view all judicial appointments as platly partisan. There is no such thing as law. It is a dangerous way to view things. I guess it does seem to me every time i look at a cannon decision, a fair minded observer would say at the very minimum, she is not moving this quickly. She doesnt seem to be spurred on any urgency. Even the way she structured the motions to dismiss shows she has an interest or at least a willingness to aaron elongate the proceedings. She has seven 25page motions from him and replies from him. This was the first hearing on his motions to dismiss. She heard two of them today. So we have five more to go. Some of them implicate classified information. This will go on for some time. And in the meantime, she still hasnt set a trial date. And you can take a bunch of different views on why that is. One might be she hopes the Supreme Court will while she is moving through the other motions to dismiss sort of save her and enter an opinion on president ial immunity that allows trump to continue to advance that defense in this case. But a more charitable view is she understand thats her case is the least trial ready. She does not want to accept a summer trial of this case. If it essentially means it goes the other way. Loses the opportunity to try that case. She would be very soundly criticized for that if she did. Lets talk about new york. So, again, all this stuff about the clock is so weird because we are getting this window to the judicial system that is always moving slowly. Right . That is just the way the american judicial system works. Today, we got word that there will be an up to 30day delay that has been agreed to by alvin Braggs Office das because of a late turnover. The u. S. Attorneys office gave them materials like three days ago. And now they have to go through it . So the thing to recognize is that different offices operate independently of each other. Well clearly. You know. What happens, when an office here gets information, he has obligations under the law. Whether it is impeachment evidence. The discovery obligations. Even if he gets it the day of the trial, it doesnt absolve them of responsibility. So whatever decisions they were made by the federal prosecutors here which would be surprising or shocking. Gave it to the former president s team. I think it is really, really a bad look for the Department Of Justice and alvin bragg is not the one at fault. One of the things trump says about all the cases is it represents collusion between the biden Justice Department and the das. Whether it be willis, bragg, or the attorney gin of new york. He has even looped in e. Jean carroll who is just a private plaintiff. It is all a conspiracy. But what happened today would have never happened if they were colluding. Alvin bragg said in his filing today, look, i asked the u. S. Attorneys office for all this stuff last year. They gave me a subset of what i asked for. Trump waited until january. Issued a subpoena of his own. And lo and behold, very recently gets back. It is now hundreds of thousands of pages of documents including some of the very same stuff i asked for and didnt get. I cant explain this. But because i cant, i will agree to an adjournment. After the u. S. Attorneys office provided 73,000 pages of discovery. His offices initial review were largely irrelevant. They had produced about 31 pages of additional records. An additional production would follow next week. This came after trump issued that subpoena. This will delay this trial it looks like. We will get the month delay. Well see. But think the judge will agree. The trial will probably go forward. And the judge, he is the one judge we have seen who is not playing games herement he has kept tight control over his courtroom and his courtroom calendar. She lost the ability to. He is not going to push this three months out. We will keep this on the time line. I dont want to be too cynical here. But, you know, the Trump Legal Team has wounded away until they got to a court with their own people on it. Then things slow down. That is what is happening. You got until you find the judge that you appointed and then things slow down. Which is why i think judge cannon is sort of like brilliant in a notpositive way. By denying the motion today without prejudice. To your point about not casting trump judges or obama judges, judge cannon has been smacked down twice. The last time they said her Special Master Process was warranted. It was a three judge panel all appointed by President Trump president s. So i take that with some confidence. In the rule of law with some confidence. No matter who they are appointed by. But Aileen Cannon is not inspiring my confidence. Coming up, why bother trying to win the presidency when you can just steal it . As the trump gang completes its hostile takeover of the Republican Party, what it means for the future of democracy. For the future of democracy. On one level, you could say Donald Trumps relation to democracy seems straightforward. He doesnt care about that. He doesnt like to lose. Right . He has lost to democratic elections. He is desperate for criminal immunity so it is instrumental for him. No democracy, no losing no problem. I think it is actually deeper than that. Deeper than an instrumental whatever works best. I think opposing democracy is not just convenient for him. It is actually a fixed strongly held ideological belief. You can see that all the time in his constant praise of dictators. It is good to have a Good Relationship with putin and xi and all these people with lots of nuclear weapons. And kim jong un, i have a Good Relationship with. He is a tough smart guy. Tough smart guys. He always says that. He says hes the boss, what he say goes. He likes the idea of a strong man tough with his people. He prefers dictatorship to democracy as a fixed principle. Not just on day one. But again, still, that is all very rhetorical. If you want an incredible example of this in practice, just look at what is going on at the Republican National committee. Where trump is a presumptive nominee is purgeing the party and making it in his image. Actual republican expert haves been at odds with trumps for years because he tells Republican Voters and trump voter thats mail in voting is rigged. Remember this . Spent months saying it back in november of 2020. After joe biden won. There were still the two Critical Senate run off elections in georgia. And mcdaniel was confronted with the real world effect of trumps lies. Switching the votes and we go there in crazy numbers. And they should have won. But then, there is still. Yeah. We didnt see that in the audit. So we have to just, that evidence i havent seen. So we will wait and see on that. How are we going to spend money and work if it is not decided. It is not decided. Thats the key. If you lose your faith and you dont vote, people walk away, that will decide it. Its not rigged. I promise you, please vote. Remember, democrats swept both of those senate seats. So the rnc realized they had a problem. This bizarre Vendetta Trump had against wail in voting which is not what the gentleman there was referencing. Mail in voting was hurting them. Mailing ballot is a way to bank votes. You never know what will happen on election day. You dont want to wait until the last section and there is a blizzard or an emergency. Or voters cant get out of work before the polls close. Not only that, this is crucial. If you bank those votes early, then you have a smaller Voter Universe to deal with on election day to contact the voters and churn them out. It is an efficient way to do it. This is why after the 2020 debacle, the rnc launched the bank your