Transcripts For MSNBCW The 20240704

David hoggs leaders we deserve get tonights last word. The 11th hour with Stephanie Ruhle starts now. Tonight, a georgia judge throws out three counts against donald trump. The impact of todays dismissal. Plus an update on where things stand on the remaining 88 charges against him. And big changes at the rnc after team trumps takeover. Plus, the new lawsuit in michigan over the states voter rolls. Then, crime has become a Major Political talking point. So tonight, we are separating fact from fiction. Our Spotlight Conversation with three Police Chiefs from across the country. As the 11th hour gets underway on this wednesday night. Good evening once again, im Stephanie Ruhle live from msnbc headquarters in new york city. We are now 237 days away from the election. Today a georgia judge threw out six counts in the election interference case involving donald trump. Three were against trump himself. The rest were against his codefendants including mark meadows and rudy giuliani. One of those counts that was thrown out was directly tied to trumps phone call to georgia Secretary Of State urging him to find more votes. The judge said that the counts in Question Quote lacked sufficient detail. The da could refile them. Her office declined to comment on whether she would. We are still of course waiting on the judges ruling about whether willis herself should be disqualified for the case because of her relationship with one of her prosecutors. That decision expected this week. Donald trumps attorney praised the decision and said the entire case should be dismissed. Trump of course is still facing ten other counts in the sprawling georgia rico case and in total, he now faces 88 Felony Counts spread across four upcoming trials. That is 88 more than any other former president. Remember that. First up, new york hush money case which is set to start in less than two weeks. But Donald Trumps team is fighting to delay it. Pending the supreme courts decision on president ial community. Lets get smarter with the help of our panel. Shawn allen is here. Mccay coppins. Staff writer at the atlantic and a new contributor here, barbara quaid. Her new book, a New York Times best seller. Attack from within, Howdies Information is sabotaging america is a must read out now. Okay lets start with these three counts. They could be refiled by willis. Put into context for us as the general Election Campaign gets underway. What he is faceing in the legal fund. He is facing something completely unprecedented in american history. Not just 88 criminal charges but any criminal charge. One for each key on the piano if you can imagine that. This is not something that has put donald trump in the clear. He is facing so many court dates. You know, he will have to have a lot of days to beat the raps. Today is good to see these disappear for the moment. They could be refiled but there is plenty pending against him. The judge said the accounts were not detailed enough about those violations. What do you think about that . When it comes to the call with the Secretary Of State looking for votes, we all heard that and it seemed major. Yes, what is interesting about the judges ruling, he say there are plenty of facts. The problem is the failure to articulate which law was violated so there is a due process to put the defendant on notice. Exactly what they are charged with so they can defend against the claim. What he said here, they are charged with soliciting public officials. What the judge says is they must specify which provisions of those two documents the government alleges were violated. He said they can come back and refile as long as they specify the precise clauses of the constitution. The evidence cited here, the call certainly remains part of this case. And can be brought up in the rico charges. If the Georgia Prosecutor wants to, she could refile and fix this flaw. It is form over substance. The judge is not saying that the underlying evidence is not valid but of course team trump is going to run a major victory lap over this. Arent they . Yeah. Of course. I mean look, the tricky thing that trump and his camp are going to have to confront here is that up until now the past year, the entire narrative they have been pushing is this is the greatest political persecution in history. The judicial system is being rigged against him. That this is a witch hunt. What will be interesting to watch is how they react when things like this happen. When judges act like judges. And there are developments in these cases that go their way. Are they going to take victory laps and say oh, this just shows that trump isnt guilty . How is that reconciled with the whole idea the judicial system is rigged against him . They will be pushing two parallel narratives and it will be increasingly difficult for them to square as we head toward a general election. Speaking with logic. All right, now lets go to florida. Judge Aileen Cannon will hear arguments on his motions to throw out the classified documents case. As i said, she has been super friendly to him thus far. What should we expect . Tomorrow is the heart of the case i think. Donald trump has repeatedly said he was permitted to take these documents under the president ial records acts. He transferred them from Government Records to personal records. This is really a big issue in this case. I think it is a frivolous argument. The president ial records act itself was passed in the wake of watergate and the Nixon Administration to make it clear that Government Records belong to the people of the united states. They are not the personal property of the president. So this argument is nonsense but tomorrow we will hear the argument. If she follows the law properly, this is an argument that should be defeated. Then this case looks to be in good shape for trial and it will be impossible for donald trump to continue this narrative that i had every right to keep these documents. John, we do not air trump rallies but tomorrow, he is likely to attend the hearing in front of this judge. She has been really friendly to him and most likely on the course steps, he will turn this into an ad hoc trump rally. Is this the Campaign Gold as absurd as it is that they like . There are two pieces to what trump has to do. He has to keep the sight around this idea that he is being persecuted by prosecution. The other is to make a persuasive argument to swing voters they should go for him instead of biden. So tomorrow is something that serves that. I dont think. And certainly time has not proven that logical consistency is the priority of donald trump or his campaign. So, i think they will celebrate the victories and at the same time, continue to make this argument that he is being treated unfairly and being persecuted by his political enemies. The other argument will be more about the issues at hand. I want to play this clip of what fox news anchor judge janine said on her air earlier. To a person, the democrats spent the whole day saying donald trump obstructed. Well, news flash, donald trump was not charged with obstructing. News flash. No, maam. For facts sake, donald trump is facing obstruct charges in two of his four criminal trials. The florida documents case and the federal election interference case. The lie was so blatant even twitter had to put a fact check on the post with that clip. So my question to you, is the right hoping to flood the zone with lies to just, a montage of lies to people believe it or tune out from exhaustion . You know, that has been the messaging strategy of the pro trump right for the past eight years. I have reported a lot on Disinformation Strategies used in liberal countries around the world and one of the strategies you see time and time again, to johns point, the claims dont always have to be consistent. They dont have to push a coherent narrative. They will be pumping out misinformation. Different ideas. Conspiracy theories, lies. Propaganda, constantly. Even if they are contradictory, the idea is to exhaust people. To confuse them and make people tune out. And when it comes to these charges trump is facing, i think we are going to see a lot of people if Trumps Campaign is successful to start to tune out the noise around the trials because they cant follow all of it. If that happens, that will be a victory for trump. Barb, lets go back to what trump is dealing with in new york because this question has been eating away at me for three days. The judge here accepted trumps 91 million bond in the e. Jean carroll case. That has me thinking back to the conflicts of interest concerns we had from trumps first term in office, we were concerned about who gave him business loans. The National Security risks. Shouldnt those concerns be higher now that people are covering his legal costs and liabilities . Absolutely. Who is coughing up this money for him to be able to post this bond . Same in the attorney generals case where the bond is going to be you know, into the tune of 400 something million dollars. When a person in Public Office is beholden to someone for a debt, there are concerns that person can be compromised. You know, i myself submitted to many Background Checks and i participated in interviews for the Background Check of other people. One of the questions you were asking when getting a Security Clearance is whether you paid your debts. You live beyond your means, anyone had any leverage over you. It is dangerous to National Security when someone has something over your head. You are likely to curry favor with them. You can be extorted or blackmailed so this is a legitimate issue for the public and the press to be exploring. It is an issue. But here is what is crazy. Its legal again. Do you not remember five six years ago how much reporting we tried to do to figure out who ultimately were trumps lenders . Because we were trying to figure out who could have something on him . When joe biden won, we heard they were going to close all these loopholes and now here we are. Its worse. It is not even swiss cheese but a big hole. He is just swan diving through it. Yeah. That concern exists. There is really an excellent point there. Anybody who owes a tremendous amount of money to anybody else is potentially conflicted. And in so many cases we have seen them conflicted. So well have to see how this goes on. I recall reporting. Because money talks. It sure does. You got the money. You got the control. Great to see you all. We are also following a very serious and Important News story out of haiti tonight. The u. S. Has sent in reenforcements. Haitis Prime Minister stepped down in the face of rising unrest. Here is my colleague Gabe Gutierrez with more. Reporter tonight, with haiti in utter chaos, a new team of marines has been sent to protect the u. S. Embassy. This is what Hell On Earth sounds like. A Terrifying Gun Battle Captured On a cell phone. Another american says an armed gang kicked her out of her home and threatened to kill her if she went back. We are so frightened for our lives. We cant ever go back home. Reporter she is desperately trying to escape and meet up with her family in miami. But the border and the airports are shut down. Also trapped, Best Selling Author mitch album. Visiting an orphanage husband charity runs in haiti. Then a stealth private Helicopter Mission rescued him and orphaned staffers. The fear is that the gangs will shoot at the helicopters. They have all done that. We were all on top of each other. A big ball of humanity. The door closed and we were up in the air in the dark. And flying. Reporter haitis Prime Minister just said he would step down as soon as a new Interim Government took over. But a notorious gang leader known as barbecue is calling for civil war. Here in the neighboring dominican republic, they are stopping Desperate Haitians from coming and in florida the governor is deploying extra Law Enforcement and drones in anticipation of a possible Migrant Influx from haiti. It is extraordinary. Dominican republic is on the same island as haiti. It is a boat ride from miami. As gabe said, it is like Hell On Earth. When we come back, the new look the rnc is suing michigan Secretary Of State over what they call inflated voter rolls. We are here. And later, a discussion with three Police Chiefs from around the country. The real story about crime in america. Well breakthrough the noise and lay out what is happening. 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The rnc sued michigans top election official to purge voter rolls in the key Battleground State and the rnc hired new election lawyers including christina bogg. A big lie boosting member of trumps 2020 legal team. It is becoming apparent that donald trump crushed joe biden in the election. It is treasonous for our federal government to take away our rights and hide it from us and lie about it and rig an election and install an illegitimate president. That is what happened. Whats this womans title in the rnc . Senior counsel for Election Integrity. Back with me tonight to discuss, ron, Midas Touch Editor and chief. And, ron, what do you make of this move . Secretary of state benson called it a meritless lawsuit filled with baseless accusations that seek to diminish peoples faith and security of our elections. This is a fairly routine thing. Almost every state has more people on their voter rolls than voters. Because especially in the case of michigan, you have a lot of people in michigan that retire and move to florida, southern states. Die, et cetera. They have been removing people off the rolls but the bigger story is christina, what you just said. I cover right wing media so i have known christina a long time since she was a Field Correspondent at oan. And she has one Conspiracy Theory after another. I posted a clip on twitter from 2022 right before the midterms. Where she was very excited about the republicans taking over the house. She had a plan she was going to pitch to them to reinstate donald trump to the presidency in 2023. She had a way the house could do that. That is Christina Bobb and she is in charge of Election Integrity at the rnc. She pushes big fat lies and a Guy On Chief Council is charlie spies. The fact that he is there, does that give you any sense of security . How do you feel about all this . I think charlie is a real lawyer. I have a lot of respect for charlie. I dont know if he will be a problem there. He wasnt a big lie guy. He accepted what the election said. The person will be running their rnc is a Campaign Manager for trump. A serious political operative. The rest of this is window dressing. The problem republicans have is not that too many dead people are voting. It is that not enough live people are voting for them. And, i worked in elections for decades. It is like saying elephantitis is a bigger problem than cancer so we will replace the National Cancer institute with the national elephantitis issue. The problem is getting people to vote when it is legal. Not illegal. It is not a felony that people wake up and want to commit. By the rnc doing this, doesnt it just pave way to sow doubt and create a scenario where you can have more fired up elections heading into january 6th and not accepting election results. Yeah. Someone has to be willing to lose in democracy. Essence of these autocracies is they destroy faith in the system. And what republicans have done, they have attacked institution after institution in america. The justice department. Law enforcement. They attack election. And the purpose of this is to throw up your hands and go we need a strong man. To just take care of everything. Because democracy isnt working. That is what russia has said since the 1920s. That democracy doesnt exist in america. It is a complete. It is a complete road map to an autocracy. I wrote a book about this. Conspiracy to kill america. To end america. Thats what is happening here. Ron, do you think people are underestimating that . Last night i sat to a bank ceo and when i was talking about election denial and democracy at risk, he laughed at me and said we have the strongest institutions in the world. No matter what trump does, our institutions will hold. Are people out there being naive about what is really happening here . Absolutely. They are. Because i think a lot of people are not necessarily as plugged in as some of us are. And they havent listened to trump much. They dont watch trump rallies. They might not watch fox or news max. They are watching sports and their local tv so they havent checked in for a little while. If you follow trump as i do, he is rapidly deteriorating. He is much, much worse today than he was in 2020 last time he ran. So yeah. He is a very dangerous person. Lets talk strong biden policies. He is in Neighboring Wisconsin and i want to play a little bit of what he said. My predecessor talked about it for years didnt get a single thing done. They will have lasting positive important results around this country. But how does a President Convert that into votes now because people are not thinking about shovels that will be in the ground and roads that will be complete in four years. There are a lot of benefits comeing from it right now. This is why republicans voting against the infrastructure act are running ads bragging about what it is doing. This is a slow process. There is no Magic Solution to this. What the white house needs to do and i think what they are doing is you have to go out and you have to talk about this. You have to talk about the people being impacted about it. And look. Usually politics is a game of small numbers so you do this, you do it every week. You put the cabinet out there, the people out there. And this stuff does soak in. And it is part of the reason that the economy is doing so well. Because, bidenonics actually works. We have Record Stock Market and record low unemployment. This is sort of a beneficial result that people say okay. Wages are going up faster than inflation. And that just sort of creates a positive environment i think will only increase come november. Well well see. Gentlemen, thank you very much for being here tonight. I believe those are newer glasses and i like them. When we come back, republicans like to claim that america is facing a Violent Crime wave. People are scared. They are starting to believe it. But heres the thing. That could not be further from the truth we will break down the facts with three Police Chiefs from around the country when the 11th hour continues. Time for a little Spotlight Conversation. Conversation. Kevin. . I bought the team i put it on my Chase Freedom Unlimited card. And im gonna cashback on a few other things too. Starting with the sound system curry from deep. Thats caaaaaaaaash. I prefer the old intro this is much better i dont think so steph, one more thing. The team owner gets five minutes a game. Cash bros . Woo i like it. Ill break it to klay. Cashback like a pro with Chase Freedom Unlimited. How do you cashback . Chase, make more of whats yours. man excuse me, would you mind taking a picture of us . How do you cashback . tony oh, no problem. man thanks. tony yes, problem. You need verizon. 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A Migrant Crime Spree is killing americans. The Migrant Crime crisis. The growing imMigrant Crime crisis. Every third day, there is a story about some sort of Migrant Crime. For many, many months, we have all heard about crime sweeping the nation, migrants and a surge at the border are all to blame. But heres the truth. Migrant crime is not on the rise. Neither is crime overall. In fact, despite what some at fox news and the right and republican lawmakers want you to think, the opposite is happening. We will show you the numbers. Crime is dropping and it is dropping fast. Last year Violent Crime dropped 8 . Property crime fell to its lowest in 60 years. Murders plunged at one of the fastest rates of decline ever. But all that manufactured outrage has left americans with very real fear. And my next guests know about it all too well. It is time for our Spotlight Conversations on a very important topic. Lets bring in Washington Dc Police chief pamela smith and Minneapolis Police chief o hera. In minneapolis, our residents and our Police Officers have been through a whole lot over the last three years. The murder of george floyd, the destruction of the city that followed. Very quickly, Violent Crime did rise here. And it did impact our most vulnerable residents at a level we have not seen in decades. We have had significant success in reducing crimes. It does remain at unacceptably high levels. Higher than what had been normal for this city prior to the pandemic. Chief smith, Violent Crime did increase in your city even when it dropped around the country. Why is that happening . Well, i think on last year, again, we have seen crime significantly go up since the pandemic during the george floyd days and clearly when it came to the change in Police Reform in laws. But what i can say is that today, significantly, we have seen a decrease in our crime and our Violent Crimes as well as our Property Crimes and our overall crime in the District Of Columbia. I want to bring into our conversation, Detroit Police chief james white. I know we are having a technical problem. Tell us what it has been like in detroit. Well like everyone else, unpredictability. Violent crime categories. Recently, last year, we have seen some significant reductions lower than our pre covid numbers so we are pretty excited about where we are headed but we are not declaring victory. We have a lot of work to do. Chief smith, earlier this week, dc mayor Muriel Bowser signed a crime bill raising certain penalties. What is your take on this . I think it is certainly the way to go in the District Of Columbia. What we have been seeing with regards to illegal firearms in the District Of Columbia. Being able to have stiffer penalties for individuals using illegal firearms in the district will be very helpful for us. Also, being able to raise the penalties for those individuals who are engaged in organized retail theft. And as you know, we have seen an increase in juvenile criminal activity in the District Of Columbia. This bill was monumental and we have a mayor who supports our Law Enforcement program here in the District Of Columbia witness Stand Regrateful For The Dc Council for passing the bill unanimously. Chief, talk about your police force. What is it like right now in terms of recruiting new officers and losing some along the way . Yeah. One, an outsider to the Minneapolis Police department. I was originally a Police Officer at newark, new jersey so i have been here the last yearandahalf. Coming in as an outsider i had a lot of skepticism about this agency as im sure everyone around the country and around the world does as these uniforms were on everyones tv a couple of years ago. I can tell you since i have been here, we have continued to shrink. But we are operating with the police force that is literally 40 smaller than what it had been in 2020. And we are dealing with levels of crime and demands for service that are higher than they had ever been before. So i can tell you what i have seen personally here. The Police Officers who have stayed are deeply committed to this city and to getting this thing right. They have been performing multiple functions and working an extraordinary amount of overtime to do what is right on behalf of our residents and to try and bring some sort of justice for victims in this city. Im incredibly crowd of the work we are doing. Are healthier than two years ago, moving forward, but we really do need increased support from City Leadership to support and make investments in the department to get more people onto the job. I would also say the residents of this city have been incredibly supportive of our officers. Especially those that are living in communities that have borne the brunt of this rise in crime and in particular, gun violence. So we are very thankful for that. Lets talk about perception becoming reality. 63 of americans say crime in the u. S. Is serious or very serious. That is the highest level gallop has recorded since they measured it. But the facts are that crime is down. So how do you make people feel better . Yeah. Well obviously, and very unfortunately, the other chiefs here would have some of their stories. Crime tends to be very concentrated. So while i think there is a perception from outsiders that crime is kind of widespread throughout the city, that is not true at all. Trying to get people to come back into the city. People if they saw a homeless person on the street or somebody who might be an addict, they would be fearful they would be victimized in some way and that is just not true at all. I think in minneapolis, its the same as many other major u. S. Cities and the crime is very concentrated here. And the people involved in serious crime and gun violence are those folks who are just as likely to become the victim of crime as they are suspect. Crime in the city, particularly Violent Crime in general is not widespread. It is not random. Particularly with Community Gun violence. It is targeted and concentrated. Chief white, how do you deal with this in detroit . Even if the numbers are down, people are saying they dont feel safe. People are saying that makes them feel less safe. We have a great Working Relationship with our community. Our community is our strength. We worked together with them. The messaging around safety we talk about often. We do everything we can to make sure we are transparent as an agency. We dont hear from our community that they dont feel safe. We are actually hearing from our community that they do feel safe. And they feel a renewed investment. They see certainly that crime is dropping but it is not p doing enough. We still have a Crime Problem in detroit. We are certainly not declaring victory. But significant reductions in homicides and nonfatal shootings cant be ignored. The other thing is much like the dc chief, i have a very supportive mayor. Who really supports policing. Supporting our agency. And stands behind the men and women who do this tough job. Thank you all for being here. But more importantly, thank you for that tough job that you do every single day, chief smith. O hara and white. Thanks for staying up with me. When we come back, Artificial Intelligence has the potential to transform our society. And our next guests idea to reimagine how we govern when the 11th hour continues. 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It was quick enough to miss last week, but the first time we ever saw Artificial Intelligence come up in the state of the union address. It happened and my next very special guest has a suggestion for what more it could do. Remake the government and potentially save the country. Here is a quote. Think about warp speeding entire agencies. The irs, public health. Traffic management. Maintenance. Interstates, bridges, think about that. Josh is here to explain all of this. He is a Washington Post columnist and a dear friend of mine. Break this down. Our government cannot function, cannot find the capitol. You think they can we make the way we function. I do. I do because they have already done it across two administrations. So our politics are so dumb, we have erased our signal policy achieve. Operation warp speed. May 2020, we have nothing. Except one guy. Gus, four star general. Shows up and he has told, you are in charge of Operation Warp speed. We have a name. He sits down. Meets with a bunch of consultants and discovers there is ai software that will allow them to do something called see himself. See my troops, supplies, enemy. Do everything i need to see how out of nothing i will create, produce, distribute, vaccines to 50 states in six months. And they did it in large part thanks to software driven by ai. It is an american company. It gave them a digital dashboard. Without ai, that is a much different challenge. Right . Now, ai software exists in lots of different places. The government uses it in times of crisis. What you will discover is oh, when it is not in crisis, we cant do any of that stuff. But thats the thing. Covid took over our country. Took over the worldment so it is kind of easy to agree on. We got to do this. Where does the will come and the ability to implement this across our daily lives . Are we not in crisis . And that is really the point here. Okay . So, theres lots of technical stuff to do. 2023. Pew does a survey at the end of the year. Lowest levels of trust in the entire time they surveyed them. You have covered the fact that donald trump is responsible for some of that. Both in word and deed. Some of this is over the years, we have allowed government to deteriorate. Atrophy. Our expectations have atrophied. The irs answers 29 of its phone calls. With an enormous backlog, no one answering the phones. By the way, when you do deal with the irs, it is still an agency that says why dont you tell us . And by the way, if you are wrong, we may prosecute you. So, there are lots of ways we can improve things. We have proven we can do it with Operation Warp speed. Lets treat it like a crisis. Lets implement software throughout the government. That is actually the challenge. Ai is not nirvana. What happens when there is bad actors and when the system doesnt work . It is not perfect by any means. What you have to get over is the status quo. Ai has a lot of issues but however, is it better than 29 of phone calls being answered . Could you create an irs, llm. Structured data. We dont know what it is. Large language model. Chatgpt is a large language model. The irs has Pretty Simple understanding of rules and regulations. Thousands of pages. It is essentially nothing to a large language model and you can use it 24 hours a day. Multiple languages. Never takes a day off. It can be responsive to about 90 of what people need. Congress is doing something. They have a new task force. The president put out a new Executive Order. What do you think of those . Their beginnings when you turn the thermostat on and the house has been cold a long time it will take time. They are moving slowly. My suspicion is they are moving slowly because of something that happened today. The eu did a ton of work on it. They like to be harsh. Now that there is a baseline, my suspicion is the federal government will begin to act. So, what you are seeing is obviously chuck schumer. Holly, blumenthal. They did open forums. Congress has established a bipartisan joint task force. The white house put out an Executive Order that activated the federal government saying make a lot of paper about ai. But we will give gina romando most of the responsibility. You will see action in the fall. The truth is not actually that hard. You can do things one at a time. We can have a Digital Privacy act which can underpin a lot of what we do with ai. We have been waiting for it since 1996. It is not that hard to do. They could real your column. Josh, great to see you. Thank you for being here, when we come back, i enjoy talking to josh, but i will love telling you this story. A familys brave gesture to open their home is now Opening Doors for so many more. Many more than ever expected. You do not want to miss this incredible story. If you like sweet dreams this evening stick around. The 11th hour continues. 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Two families bonded by one home and an incredible gesture helping future generations trace their own american dreams. My colleague has this story. Reporter the Historic Hotel coronado was built by thousands of workers who would never be able to step foot inside as guests including gus thompson. This is his great grandson. Its still here. Its still here. And it is still fabulous. Reporter gus thompson was born into slavery. Eventually, he moved to california where he and his wife emma lived with their family three blocks from the hotel. This is unbelievable. This has been here since the 18, the late 1800s. Correct. 1895 to be exact. Reporter kevin ashley studies the citys black history. The idea there was a thriving African American community between 1890 and 1920. Was that shocking to you . Hugely shocking. Reporter thompson and his family welcomed visitors that no one else would take in. Their old original house, they usually rented it out to immigrants. He was having trouble. Reporter his son ron was a toddler at the time. A new beginning for the family who bought the house. Now they are selling it and pledging the proceeds to San Diego State universitys black resource center. A gesture that pays it forward to the next generation and one at