former c id. cia director on a big moment. we're at the table as they consider footing the former president's legal bills. welcome to the week. outside of atlanta, donald trump will host a rally. trump faces 13 criminal counts in fulton county for his attempting to nullify biden's win in the state. good morning to you both. >> before we get to biden on the road. let's talk about what biden did in the house. it was a moment at the podium. and mike johnson is what i do i do? what was your estimate of that moment. what did you think about the biden that presented and the biden that owned it? >> i talked to the chief of staff on wednesday. i was a little nervous. he was like when it is a big deal and president biden is going to do great. they felt really confident going in. and you can see why. it is an objective that president biden went up there and ran the room like he wanted to like comedians on tick-tock and instagram. he was doing his jokes. he wanted to go back and forth with them. he starts with ukraine, january 6th and abortion and ivf that is how they are saying these are the most important things for this election. democracy and dobs. that is what he said on that stage on thursday. he picked a lot of things that divide the republican party across the country right. ukraine, abortion, ivf, all of those things. he did that through the. he wanted to make clear to voters, they are out of step on these issues with you. we saw that yesterday when he was in pennsylvania and we'll see in georgia and going forward. >> one of my favorite moments from the state of the union address, my top moment started early, it was when the president was talking about rowe and the dobbs decision. the cameraman pans to the justices as this happens. we'll get the clip and show is a little later in the show. that was my favorite moment. and it encapsules what we're going to get in the longest general election ever. where did you watch? what did you think? did you have a focus group? >> i did have a focus group. before i get to the focus group yesterday, where we got people's reacts, i want to till that i've been talking to voters now across the political spectrum for years every week. if there is one thing that the democrats wanted to see from president biden, they wanted to see a fighter. they want somebody that is going on offense who has a knife in her teeth. and during the state of union that is what we got. so i think -- the substance was obviously there to rally the democrats. president biden's numbers have been soft. his approval numbers have been low. and so i think the substance of the peach was there to rally democrats to him. it was meant to sure up concerns from voters that think that president biden, i hear in from voters all the time. they think that he has dementia. they don't go around watching all of his speeches. when you talk about the bar being set low, the republicans did, voters believe in part because republicans are on a 24/7 offend crusade to make sure voters think that he has dementia. when the voters don't see him that much, voters can think that is who he is, when he comes out and looks as good he did the other night and jousting and going offscript with the republicans, it gives the voters on the fence, he's okay. he's got it. he'll be fine. i think that sured up a lot of hesitantsy that people are having. i think it will stop this drip, drip, drip from the democrats that are saying, we need another candidate. we need to replace him on the ticket. he needs to step side. i don't think you'll see that again, at least not for a while. >> i hope no more of that. >> people living in the fantasy land. >> the president shows that he's a fighter. there is a brand-new ad out from the biden campaign this morning. it goes after the age that the president's age is a liability and not and asset. >> i'm not a young guy. that is no secret. here is the deal. i understand how to get things done for the american people. i lake-effect the country through the covid crisis. today we have the strongest economy in the world. i passed the law that lower prescription drug prices. it caps insulin at $35 a month for seniors. for four years donald trump tried to pass infrastructure bill and failed. i got it done. i passed the biggest flaw history to combat climate. donald trump took away the freedom for women to choose. i'm determined to make roe v. wade the land of the law again. i hope i'm this prolific in my 70s. it gives me a sense of common. there are two things that the biden campaign is doing. you're not going run away from the age. let's talk about the number of things that he's been able to accomplish. and there is the comparison to trump. i wonder in your focus groups how the two issues or barring out, the question of the candidates and the comparison points between the two them. >> look, if it is fair or not, voters don't question trump's mental capacity, they question his sanity. they look if he's commander and chief fray moral and ethical standpoint. trump has big lunatic energy, he just doesn't come off the same way that biden does. so the concerns for voters around age do rest with president biden. but this is super charlotte of the biden campaign. if you listen to my pod cast, we have been begging them for a while is to not run away from the age thing. is not because the media talk about president biden being old. you say i'm the yoda. i'm the wise protecter. who is is the other old bad guy is in the star wars movies. you have to make it a moral contrast. >> it has to be good. there is good old and bad old. i think president biden going on the offense and going out and saying, i'm old and brings wisdom and that helps me understand what the country needs and i want to leave this country in a better place because i love it, that is the right way to handle this age question, not to ignore it. >> apologize to all the star wars fans out there. we'll get it right. he was old the last time he ran for president. and people know that. the question is he too old? maybe with the state of union and this ad, that may be what they're trying to get out. he stayed on the floor forever. they turned the lights off and president biden is still out there chitchatting. i think the vice president was in phoenix, arizona. the president and the first lady, they were in pennsylvania. philly girl. philly jill was there. and today biden is going to georgia. talk a little bit about what the white house is saying. what are they saying that the strategy is with these places? i will note, arizona, georgia, florida, ohio, they are trying to win that back. some people may be asking, is florida still a battleground stayed? >> the republicans spending waste money. i think that is where the strategy is. when you talk to them about this kind of tour, what they will acknowledge and have acknowledged, is they have not done a good job of selling the things that they have done for the american people. they have a litany of things, objectively that they can run on. we did this and we want to do more. for whatever reason, it has not broken through. and they're not consistent in telling that story. they'll do a kickoff and they'll do a couple of weeks and that is it. this is an example of them realizing and showing. we're going to do this for a sustained amount of time. and we'll deal with a lot of people. is not president biden. if he's not the best messenger for you, we have others. i think this is the best play for them. they cannot go offer donald trump and his campaign. president biden can and kamala harris k and the rest of the crew will tell the story of what they've done as an administration. and hopefully we'll hear what they do. the voters are here. eugene and sarah are going to stay here. one of of the president's key messages is the threat to democracy. we'll get into that message in a moment. a little later, we'll discuss the threat to democracy abroad with former cia director john brennan. you're watching the weekend. brennan. you're watching the weekend. with nurtec odt, i can treat a migraine when it strikes and prevent migraine attacks, all in one. don't take if allergic to nurtec. allergic reactions can occur, even days after using. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. ask about nurtec odt. i have moderate to severe crohn's disease. now, there's skyrizi. ♪ things are looking up, i've got symptom relief. ♪ ♪ control of my crohn's means everything to me. ♪ ♪ control is everything to me. ♪ feel significant symptom relief at 4 weeks with skyrizi, including less abdominal pain and fewer bowel movements. skyrizi is the first il-23 inhibitor that can deliver remission and visibly improve damage of the intestinal lining. and the majority of people experienced long-lasting remission at one year. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine or plan to. liver problems may occur in crohn's disease. ♪ now's the time to ask your gastroenterologist how you can take control of your crohn's with skyrizi. ♪ ♪ control is everything to me. ♪ ♪ learn how abbvie could help you save. we all need fiber for our digestive health, but less than 10% of us get enough each day. good thing metamucil gummies are an easy way to get prebiotic, plant-based fiber. with the same amount of fiber as 2 cups of broccoli. metamucil gummies the easy way to get your daily fiber. you always got your mind on the green. not you. you! your business bank account with quickbooks money now earns 5% apy. (♪♪) that's how you business differently. intuit quickbooks. you know that thing your family does? someone made it a thing, back in the day. but where did it come from? ancestry can help you find out. lucky you, it's on sale now. right now you can get a free footlong at subway. just buy any footlong in the app and get one free. just scan the qr code and enter promo code flbogo. it only works from the other side of the screen, buddy. you still got a land line in your house. order now in the subway app. if you spit blood when you brush, it could be the start of a domino effect. new parodontax active gum repair breath freshener. clinically proven to help reverse the four signs of early gum disease. a new toothpaste from parodontax, the gum experts. a see a future where we defend democracy, not finish t we defend our freedom, not take it away. >> as president biden seeks a second term, he is reminding voters of the stakes that donald trump is a threat to demty at home and overseas. back with us is eugene daniels and sarah longwell. eugene, you have covered biden at the white house. i'm struck by the fact this is a continuation of what we heard from president biden since he said that he wanted to run for president. the threat to the democracy not new for him. the threat to democracy is deeply personal for them. >> they tell you that. first election, the reason that he jumped in was because the threat of democracy. and now he has january 6th the other example of the threat to democracy and what happened in the aftermath of the 2020 election. so he feels is deeply. he feel like it is his duty to tell the american people what the stakes are. you have democrats that worry that the word democracy too lofty and it may mean different things to different people. >> i think it is does mean more things to different people. >> that is the whole point of democracy. >> we can put our own spin on it. if you think democracy, some may think of dobs and some may think of voting rights. but this is something that president biden is not going to let go. and it is his ability to protect freed dodge. and now the the democratic party at large has used the threats of democracy and the fight for freedom. >> we don't do the freedom thingy more. it is way overrated. we just don't do it. i want to expand on that point. it is an important one. the subtext of this election is what president biden is feeling is that the democracy piece and in the conversations that you have witnessed and have across the country, what is the take that you're hearing from people about this whacky, crazy experiment, this sort of human element aspect of democracy, where we all have a stake in it, and some of us seemingly want to check out of it? does that resinate with folks? or is it just what is on my kitchen table or my gas tank? i'm hoping it is a little more. you're talking to folks. what are you hearing? >> i studied this question extensively. president biden and the democrats do want to lien into democracy because of january 6th because donald trump tried to ruin the constitution and did not engage in a peaceful transfer of power. the world of democracy doesn't land clearly with them what does is extremism. what does is freedom. it is interesting. in 2022 when the democrats overperformed, there was a lot of questioned why did they overperform because expectations were really low for them t was not democracy and just dobbs. it was the question of extremism. they would say that the election was stolen. he has extreme views on abortion and he's friends with the unabomber, not friend with him. but he thought he was good. that is the way voters would wrap up the candidates are too extreme. that is how they feel about donald trump. they don't think he'll be a dictator. they don't think he'll overturn the constitution. but they think that he is a jerk. they do think that he's chaos. they think that he is irrational and cannot be trusted. i think the democrats need to understand that democracy doesn't mean the same thing to everyone. democracy it started to get a little polarized as a word. republicans say that the democrats cheated in 2020 that is why they are a threat to democracy the same way democrats say that republicans are a threat to democracy because they say that the election was stolen and attacked the capitol. it is okay to have democracy as your north star and say this is what i'm protecting. but he needs to talk about in ways that connect with the voters in terms of freedom and understanding how the dobbs decision and democracy relate to one another. i think he's doing that. i think that they do understand this. i think they just have to make sure that they connect with voters in a way that doesn't sound like it was teased out in the faculty lounge of the university and does connect with sort of people's lives. >> i have to say, this is one of those weeks, where it felt like we lived a thousand lifetimes. is this the week that nikki haley dropped out of the race. and there has been a question who the voters are going to go through. it did help them. and the same conviction should lead them to support biden in november. my question to you is, will it? >> i think the nikki haley voters -- to me it is interesting. it is this 70/30 split in the republican party. if you say that the election was stolen, 70 say yes and 30 say no. if trump is convicted for a crime? 30% say they won't. and nikki haley was getting roughly 30% and 28, 27% in some of these primaries from self ids republicans. some of the voters are going to go home to donald trump. some of the voters are already biden voters. they are people that voted for trump in 2020 but will vote for biden. this group is going to be the the big persuadable group called the double haters or the double doubters, it is people that do not like truck and they do not like biden. that is why this may be a negative election cycle. people know what they think about them. if we played a drinking game for the number of times that voters in the focus group say the lesser of two evils, we would be dead. >> i would just -- i'm chosing to be hopeful. i'm hoping that voters, instead of going to the polls in november, who do i like the least or who do i hate the least will say who is going to protect my freedoms the most. and maybe this freedom thing, that it is what the biden campaign seems to be doing. here is the first lady dr. jill biden in pennsylvania just yesterday. >> waging battles over our bodies, our choices and our futures. we are the first generation in half a century to give our daughters a country with fewer rights than we had. joe is working tirelessly to defend our freedoms, our future and our democracy. >> well they booed. so maybe they did not get my point. >> the negative energy. >> it is going to be a very negative campaign. we saw that on thursday. presidents usually down use a state of the union address for as much contrast as president biden did. they are going to continue to do that. don't be so sad. there will be some possible aspects of the election, the idea that someone is protecting democracy. that will be a central part of that. but sarah is right, the people that are going to decide this election are the people that will have to hold their nose. when i went to the nikki haley campaign events in south carolina where she lost her tomorrow states. there are a lot of democrats that voted for her and a lot of republicans are like, i'll vote for president biden because i just can't for trump. who are the people that going to stay home and how do we get them off the couch? the concern, the people they are fighting are the couch. you don't want people to be doing this election. so they have to figure out how this get people excited a little bit, or at the very least scared. fear is a good tactic. i think the biden campaign is going to do it and maybe not the same ways at the trump campaign, but they're going to have to use it a little bit. >> i would hope so. thank you for waking up with us this morning. still ahead, donald trump has been praising a leader again. we'll get into it. and we have a great piece in the msnbc newsletter about the state of the union address and president biden's focus how dangerous a second trump am term could be to american's health. you can sign up. you'll get reviews of the original msnbc pod casts and other treats. you're watching the weekend. other treats. you're watching the weekend. everybody wants super straight, super white teeth. they want that hollywood white smile. new sensodyne clinical white provides 2 shades whiter teeth and 24/7 sensitivity protection. i think it's a great product. it's going to help a lot of patients. my frequent heartburn had me taking antacid after antacid all day long but with prilosec otc just one pill a day blocks heartburn for a full 24 hours. for one and done heartburn relief, prilosec otc. one pill a day, 24 hours, zero heartburn. she runs and plays like a puppy again. his #2s are perfect! he's a brand new dog, all in less than a year. when people switch their dog's food from kibble to the farmer's dog, they often say that it feels like magic. but there's no magic involved. 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>> i liked the ad. sometimes in campaign, we're like the political professionals here. but the reality is, in campaigns, bio, that is important. that was a bio, an ad for president biden. this is his one minute pitch as president, if you will. >> his elevator pitch. >> yes. this is why the battleground states across the country and key markets, i think it is a $30 million ad buy. that is an important opening to this long general election. he has to tell people what he does and what he's going to do. i think the rest of the democratic apparatus need to do the second piece. you cannot brow beat voters with what has happened. >> i know. i'm old. you got my attention. it is a level of honest that i think a lot of people out there suspect that the democrats or the biden team are trying to hide the fact that he's old. he's like, i'm old. trust me. i can lead and i have led. the other guy, not so much. that initial contrast with voters will be important, going back to what i was just saying, how you set the ride or die motion in play. folks are like, i can go with him and trust his leadership, because the economy is doing a lot better than i thought it was. so all of those pieces kind of fall together. >> they see the fact this is the 2024 general election coming together. >> yes, in march. >> so to that end, buckle up, because donald trump is about to get the republican nominee treatment again. john brennan weighs in after the break. you're watching the weekend. br. you're watching the weekend. get help reaching your goals with j.p. morgan wealth plan, a digital money coach in the chase mobile® app. use it to set and track your goals, big and small... and see how changes you make today... could help put them within reach. from your first big move to retiring poolside - and the other goals along the way. wealth plan can help get you there. ♪ j.p. morgan wealth management. bother the bugs. not your family. ahh! zevo is made with essential oils which attack bugs' biological systems. it wipes cleanly, plus is safe for use around people and pets. gotcha! zevo. people-friendly. bug-deadly. ♪oh what a good time we will have♪ ♪you... can make it happen...♪ ♪♪ try dietary supplements from voltaren for healthy joints. here's to getting better with age. here's to beating these two every thursday. help fuel today with boost high protein, complete nutrition you need... ...without the stuff you don't. so, here's to now. boost. 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>> the biden administration is not going to provide donald trump any document like those that were in the mar-a-lago bathrooms and the satellite photography. there is a lot of misunderstanding about this issue. for the past 30 years, they have offered a high-level intelligence briefing. it will take place after the national convention, either democrat or republican. they are high level high briefings about hotspots that go on around the world. to make sure that the incoming president has an appreciation and understanding of some of the very manies globally, but they don't get into the source or methods, not just donald trump, but any other presidential candidate. it is the type of things that we need to make sure that a person may be in the wise has an appreciation and understanding of. donald trump is a unique individual who is unlike any other presidential candidate in the past. build i think if the biden administration did inside the briefing to him, it would feed into donald trump's image of victimhood and his claims that the biden administration is working to undermine his candidacy. i think they can manage this. this is a good example of what the least of the worst options that are available to them? they will provide briefings. it will be high level. it will not be revealing source and methods and no briefing too a presidential candidate would get into that type of detail t is going to go around the world type of analysis and what they do every year in the worldwide thread briefing. >> is there a way to track that information flow and is there some way to manage how that, not just what is in the briefing, but what he does with that information? is that within his purview once he gets the briefing. it is all documents? is it verbal. how does that process? you have john bolton scratching their heads and going, why would do you this given this guy's -- he doesn't pay attention to the necessary importance of the secrets and to give to someone to want to share that information, as you pointed out. that type of analyst to she have some of the developments taking place. the developments taking place. specific -- information. so they're in the going to be able to track and they will not track what donald trump does with it. but again, it's the analysis and it's probably one level lower than a "new york times," you know, front page piece about what's happening in ukraine. and china. and the middle east. so it's something that i think again, the biden administration looking at what their options were. i do think this is the best decision that they have made. that they can make on this one. because again if they denied it it would just lead to -- more outrage on the part of not just donald trump, but his supporters. and their offering this briefing to the nominee of the republican party. granted it's not the republican party michael, that you were a part of years ago but it's the nominee for the republican party. one of the two parties in the united states political system. >> okay. i feel somewhat better. thank you. mr. director. director brennan, stick around because we have more to talk about because we want to discuss the newest member of the nato alliance and the president's push for more ukraine aid. and be sure to follow our show on social media. our handle everywhere is @theweekendmsnbc. meet the traveling trio. the thrill seeker. the soul searcher. and - ahoy! it's the explorer! each helping to protect their money with chase. woah, a lost card isn't keeping this thrill seeker down. lost her card, not the vibe. the soul searcher, is finding his identity, and helping to protect it. hey! oh yeah, the explorer! she's looking to dive deeper... all while chase looks out for her. because these friends have chase. alerts that help check. tools that help protect. one bank that puts you in control. chase. make more of what's yours. you know that thing your family does? yeah, that thing. someone made it a thing, way back in the day. but where did it come from? and how did it get all the way to you? curious? ancestry can help you find out. because that thing has a story, and it's still being written. what are you waiting for, a sale? well, lucky you. we see again and again and again that everything putin sought to prevent, he's actually precipitated by his actions. by his aggression and there's no clearer example of that than sweden becoming a member of this alliance. >> that was secretary of state antony blinken welcoming sweden as the 32nd nation to join nato. so sweden's move to join was a direct response to russia's invasion of ukraine. during the state of the union address, president biden said nato is stronger than ever while calling on congress to send more aid to ukraine. former cia director john brennan is still back with us here at the table. sweden first applied to joinnato in may 2022 after russia first invaded ukraine. finland got in just fine. sweden took a little longer and hungary and turkey had some issues. they come into the alliance now and i think unbeknownst to me they have a significant military industrial complex. like the weapons situation is vast and i think that's something to maybe make folks breathe a little easier given what is currently happening with russia and ukraine. what is the next move now? >> well, i think first of all -- >> i was like, well. in the war. >> in the war? ingly think it's a big strategic step back for vladimir putin. two formidable countries with military capabilities have joined the nato alliance which brings the scandinavian countries into the very important alliance that sits on russia's northwest border along with norway. therefore i think nato is trying to make sure they are able to work font as closely as together to the countries and i think there are questions among nato countries about whether or not they can get -- rely on the united states over time. because they see that donald trump may, in fact, get back into the white house. and really concerns them. they've been increasing their defense spending and i think the ukraine situation ha really -- encouraged them to work more closely together. but i think as you were alluding to, sweden as military production capabilities in term of components for fighter aircraft and other things so i do think we see some positive developments in the european theater as far as may nee toe cooperation among themselves but we should make no mistake about it. the united states is the core member. the critical component of the nato allowance. that will deter russia from moving further westward into europe. >> i have one follow-up question because -- the weapons they can make though. they are not at the level of what we make. >> no. but some of the components are actually integrated into some of our advanced aircraft. you know, in terms of the -- you know, f-16s and f 23s and other types of things. sweden has a very, very sophisticated production capability in terms of the technologies that are incorporated into u.s. weaponry. >> the conversation that we're having is all intertwined and two things still hung up on. the fact that or ban met with the heritage foundation. actually cozying up with infrastructure in the country. and then the fact that if donald trump is the hawk that he claims to be on china, then certainly he has to understand that also being very close to orbann actually complicates the image of himself as a person who's going to like -- really rough up china. or does he not understand global alliances. >> well, i -- he certainly does not understand global alliance that's for sure but i also i think he's going to portray himself as the consummate deal maker. with china that he can make some deals that are going to push china back on the trade route. on commercial interests and business interests. so i do think he's -- you know, anti-china you know, china, china, china. but at the same time, i think he's able to manipulate this image of himself that he is able to push these countries back and not be able to compete with the united states. while at the same time, negotiating deals that are going to benefit us, for example, on different types of trade aspects of relationship with china. >> could we -- put the map back up of nato? i'd like to -- ask the director about this map. this is very important map. this is what -- this is what concerns russia when they look at this map. the growth of nato. the strength of the alliance. but here i want to zoom in on that map and donald trump and how the leaders of nato look at that map in a -- in a new trump era and how do they hold that map together because victor orbann and others would like to see a different configuration. >> yes. and there's some sliding already in europe. not just in terms of hungary but also slovakia. and some of the -- the elections that are taking place in europe. there are a lot of right wing individuals that are vying for the various political offices there. -- whose agendas are like victor to cozy up to vladimir putin and distance themselves from the united states and if it's a biden led united states. but if it's a trump led united states i think they're going to be able to try to exploit that and in terms of trump's, you know, not willing to pursue u.s. traditional policies of being that security guarantor for europe. making sure they're able to stand up to aggression and stand up to putin and ping and others. and so therefore i think the people in that -- in europe are particularly concerned about the baltic countries. the small countries that putin may decide to move on after if hi does -- able to be victorious in ukraine. >> director john brennan. thank you so much for being with us. refill that cup of coffee or tea. another jam-packed hour of the weekend including voting rights expert and united auto workers president shawn fain and gwen moore. you are watching "the weekend." migraine attacks, all in one. don't take if allergic to nurtec. allergic reactions can occur, even days after using. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. ask about nurtec odt. only at vanguard, you're more than just an investor, you're an owner. nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. our financial planning tools and advice can help you prepare for today's longer retirement. hi mom. that's the value of ownership. watch your step! that's why visionworks makes it simple to schedule an eye exam that works for you. even if you have a big trip to plan around. thanks! i mean, i can see you right now if that's...convenient. visionworks. see the difference. 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