school education. all you need is a calendar and a healthy skepticism about washington, and so while the lawyers were going through some of the understandable details, i thought you hit on the head in your journalistic coverage of it which was we can see what the court is doing. we can see where they're headed. >> right. i mean, i feel like all that we need to know is, and all we need to trust is that we can see it with our own eyes and what we can hear with our own ears and i needed a calculator to do it, but you can add up the days that remain and it could take up until july 1st what they think and there's not a day left based on what tanya chutkan said and shocking, but not surprising that the american people will have to be their own jurors once again. >> and the supreme court issues a ruling that says no one is above being put on trial while eliminating the very trial then that is a stress test for their credibility. we'll be talking about it more, but i did want to mention that on the handoff. nice to see you. >> thank you very much. i'll go watch. >> absolutely. our thanks to nicole wallace who is leading up the breaking news coverage when this story first broke, the supreme court first made it clear where it was headed yesterday and that was just about 25 hours ago. today we have a breakdown for you as we look at the central question of donald trump's aurt in the january 6th case and does he have a made-up immune they no president has ever had that's never been found in precedent, in law and the constitution and as the supreme court has now said it will, does it require to be -- does that reyear it must be reviewed in delaying the trial? the supreme court has clearly decided to unnecessarily delay everything. >> there was no reason in this world for the supreme court to take this case. >> we could have expedited it more. >> we know the trump strategy has been to try to delay both federal cases. >> the delay itself de facto gives immunity to this former president. >> the whole point of this ruling is for trump to win. >> when it comes to the timing in delaying this, that's a win in their books. >> the supreme court knows that there's a consequential election in november. it's abundantly clear that there's no cavalry coming to save our democrat see and only the voters can do that. >> this is what we are weighing tonight, if you were watching nicole wallace or msnbc you probably heard about this breaking news, the supreme court step in when they don't have to and doing it slowly to delay what was going to be the only scheduled trial for defendant donald trump for his january 6th actions and the court knows what's at stake and they know the time line and know how these things work. i want to show you now in the breakdown and i want to do it simply. in december the supreme court first responded to this same question about whether to hear any of this, rejecting jack smith's request saying if you do need to look at this each though it's been a losing argument for trump the idea that he has made-up immunity, please fast track it. they said no. then trump appealeded to the court to intervene and it spent another two weeks just waiting around and finally issuing the one-page order last night and then that one order didn't exactly say we'll hold this hearing right away. it pushed the argument date out to the very last three available days of oral arguments on the entire court calendar, this term late april which as "the new york times" put it clearly bell on bolsters donald trump's delay strategy. if you're watching this and don't know how the supreme court works, okay, news anchor, okay, ari. obviously, that's not very fast, but is that just how it is? nine people with permanent tenure and robes moving at their own slow, deliberate pace, how is that different from other times and how does that prove something abnormal or as some critics have said flatly partisan about this particular republican-leaning court? >> well, we'll show you the evidence. you'll make up your own mind. when the court is dealing with exactly similar circumstances, candidates for president, big clashes, things that could affect an election, one coming up or one recently finished and we know the supreme court which operates on precedent has all of the ability and all of the knowledge and the tradition of acting as fast as it needs to. take one recent example where i told you about where i warned people thinking this will affect everything and the colorado case about the ballot ban and i told viewers before i went to the court that i was likely to get trump off the ballot. there's a different point tonight. that case which turned out to be trump friendly was one where the court knew exactly how to act quickly. >> the supreme court announced it will hold oral arguments on the case next month on february the 8th, which to be clear in supreme court time is light speed. >> the they fast schedule by supreme court standard, but not an unreasonable schedule. >> it is expedited in supreme court land. the only time line by which they have to operate is really their own. >> and we'll show you what that looks like. trump appealed that case and two days later, january 5th, the court took it. two days. they said we'll take it and promptly scheduled those oral arguments that we covered. the headlines out of that hearing were very clear. the court likely to side with trump. so on a trump-friendly case when he wanted fast action they moved fast. this is a case where trump wants to move slowly because in that other case he has to get back on the ballot and in this case he just wants the trial to go away. the last time the supreme court had to weigh in on an actual presidential election that had occurred and just different on the ballot thing that's coming up was the very famous case in 2000 in bush v. gore. i told you we'll show you the evidence tonight and the court and the judges claim they used precedent. in an important election case with all of those consequences and also complexities, the court showed it can act with real speed and urgency on a significant presidential election issue. >> the stunning announcement from the u.s. supreme court granting an emergency request from the bush lawyers. >> this may well be the single most historic decision of the rehnquist court. >> both men believe they should be next president of the united states based on the law and the politics. >> i think there is expectation the court will act very quickly. >> the u.s. supreme court has just released its ruling. >> the recounts will not continue. it's an all-out victory for the bush camp. >> you see some of our msnbc veterans and that was dan abrams and pete williams in front of the court and boy, did they act quickly. we'll show you the time line. the florida supreme court had the recall count on december 8th. three days later, december 11th, the court heard oral arguments and a day after that they rushed out their decision. that's five days total from appeal to decision. so the supreme court knows how to act quite quickly even on complex, high-stakes presidential conflicts when it wants to. here, even though they don't need to act that quickly because there's not a handoff of presidential power coming up. it's not going toward january 20th, but here they are on a much slower side. think about all of the precedent you just saw, think about how donald trump's lawyers have said one thing over and over in the jack smith case. it should be delayed. we know that because when the case was first filed they were proposing a trial date of 2025, after the election. they lost that just like they lost the immunity claim, but what the supreme court did late yesterday and even before ruling on the merits of this case was hand the trump lawyers the win they needed on the timeline. so take a look. we mentioned february 12th, trump asked scotus to intervene and they had two days to just grant the cert and then put the oral arguments and april 22nd, the last possible week on the calendar and seven weeks out from today. this is a win for trump because delay is the strategy. for donald trump's lawyers, delay means win. i've shown you our sort of timeline here of all the cases. by scheduling this case at the end of april we have the precedent and expertise to know the ruling might not come until late june and then if the supreme court upholds trump's loss, and he already lost on the e munity issue both times it's been heard, only then will the pretrial proceedings begin because it not only delayed the case, but issued a stay which just means a freeze of any other underlying actions for the trial. as nicole and i were discussing it gets simple from here and the trial could lant as great as september and october in the middle of the election and even if the court does rule before late june. the justices have already delayed this thing by months and possibly prevent anything such trial. i will repeat what's mentioned and here a a lot of calendar talk. here's the bottom line. very few people make up have this court to make up precedent saying politicians can never be prosecuted and as mentioned nixon took a pardon because he could be prosecuted, but they very well may issue a late opinion that claims you can put politicians on trial while acting to moot and prevent this very trial of this politician. how? how would that ever make sense? so, does that mean there's no trials left? not exactly. donald trump, unlike every other former president in both parties, created so much criminal evidence on himself that he's facing, as you heard, more than one criminal indictment and there's a criminal trial over the hush money payments and how they were characterized in new york and that trial is next month. what we can tell you tonight, that trial might be the one that goes down before the 2024 election. there is no supreme court ramp to deal with it or delay it. it is scheduled and it is now the only one that is scheduled so it could take on an even larger significance. you take this all together tonight and what you see in the evidence that i've shown you is the court not only can move more quickly, but it has. they moved more quickly recently in a case trust wanted speed on and in controversial members that one of the political parties was so unhappy. so why is it on this case with a very simple losing argument, are presidents immune? do they go to jail? do we live in a dictatorship? why are they going so slowly in a way that it only helps one person, a person who is a criminal defendant getting special treatment to delay the very criminal trial that the current justice department has said is a matter of national import? we have two excellent experts on this, one legal, one political given how political the court is being when we come back. ♪♪ ♪ ♪ sometimes, the lows of bipolar depression feel darkest before dawn. with caplyta, there's a chance to let in the 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work great together. >> and we are back with our experts. we have some breaking news that we'll get into in the mar-a-lago trial, but first i want to get both of our experts here on what we just went through which is the supreme court case. david kelly and jason johnson, we've got new filings because there's so much going on on florida mar-a-lago, so i'm going to get that to you in a second, david. basically both sides putting forward their proposed trial date, but given this is the first time hearing from both of you on the other big case, the supreme court case, i wanted to get your reaction first. first, david on this slow timeline? >> you, as always, you make a very compelling case when you lay out all the evidence to suggest that the supreme court is playing a little bit of a game here and let me throw out counterarguments in the colorado case and and the bush v. gore case you had real deadlines external to the case meaning in the colorado case it means when the ballots done and when they get them out. they have a hard deadline external to the case. bush v. gore they had to get someone in president -- or the president's office. in this case what you have is a desire by the government to proceed at a certain time when there's no legal requirement to do that. you've got plenty of time running out of the speedy trial clock, so i don't know that there is any deadline other than kind of a preference, and the reality is, look, no matter -- >> i'll let you finish, but jack smith's folks would argue, david, that you have a tradition of at least no political-themed action of 60 days. you have practical realities and it's not that the case has to be done by the election because of some political reason, of course, that would be untoward, but rather it's a case about whether this criminal defendant stole an election. so there is a great interest to the united states government to protect elections. >> the supreme court then kind of blatantly engages in politics, right? and no matter how they decide the case here, how they decide to proceed either they go with smith or they go with trump. they no winning for them here, right? because if they went with jack smith then everybody claims that they're playing politics and putting the thumb on the scale of the government and if they do it the way they've done it people claim they've put their thumb on the scale for trump, so i don't know if there's any real way out for them here without getting the type of criticism they're getting. so we'll see. >> again, i'll go back and forth with you, but david, you're using shorthand of saying who they go with. all donald trump cares about is avoiding this trial by the election. if they do something that does that then they've gone with trump. as i said the viewers know what's going on. i'm happy to hear a counterargument. what is the worth -- what's the legal value, david, of a precedent that says you can put him on trial, but we won't let you. >> look, i'm just trying to throw some arguments on there. not that i disagree with you, they're the arguments being presented, but on the other side is that in those other cases you cited there is an external non-case issue that kind of drives the decision as opposed to when this needs to be tried and the points you raise are really again, more political issues than they are hard and fast rules that need to be addressed and in kind of an expedited basis. so that's my view on that. look, i was disappointed because frankly, the immunity issue is a layup, right? and i think the d.c. circuit court wrote an extremely compelling, comprehensive opinion that i can't see the supreme court overturning. that having been said, the supreme court is now couching the issue in a much different way than either the d.c. circuit court did or any of the parties did which was whether or not there was immunity for conduct alleged to involve official acts. what concerns me about that is whether or not the supreme court ultimately kicks it back and not with a final decision such as the direction of the district court to make findings and advances to whether or not the acts for which being prosecuted involved official acts, but all told again, i think these are all issues that could be dealt with post-conviction on direct appeal. >> right -- >> i agree with the judge. i'm surprised that they even took this case. they didn't need to take it. >> legally, they didn't need to take it. >> they didn't need to take the case. >> i've heard it in public, they doesn't have to weigh in on. sure, but not before the trial. jason, i'll remind people there was a republican governor that was convicted and the way the prosecution went at him were deemed ultimately questionable. fine. the supreme court dealt with that after and he was not incarcerated before the supreme court process and this was way early to delay it and so, jason, i turn to you, our lonely nation turns to you not because you've practiced law as long as david kelley or prosecuted as many tough cases like david kelley or run the southern district of new york, who i remind people is my former boss, but jason, i wonder if the supreme court is aking in a way that will ultimately be deemed by the evidence to look more partisan than legal and what are your political thoughts on that. >> it's absolute partisan. this is garbage, and honestly, ari, the public at large and democrats in the white house and frankly elena kagan and ketanji brown jackson and sonia sotomayor should be standing up and screaming right now. this is an absolute disgusting abuse of power and let me make this clear for the non-lawyers on here. i'm on campus and i was explaining this case to my students and they said why is this taking so long? i had to show lethal weapon 2, this is not complicated. it is clear that we have an absolutely corrupted supreme court that at least three of the judgis has dealings we can't explain, gorsuch, thomas, and the only audience that matters is the american people and the only audience that matters is republicans. that is the problem with this. it's not complicated. it doesn't require a lot of legalese. they are stalling in order to allow donald trump to get into the white house or at least get a chance to get in the white house and given a chance that the third of the court was put into office and positions by him, it's not that hard to tell. ari, the concern that i have, frankly is not what's going to happen legally, but the fact that we have a government that has taken so much time to hold this man accountable that we may -- he may never see the jail. this is as real as it gets. he may never see jail. >> correct. >> it's only because we can't trust the supreme court and merrick garland didn't do his job. >> and that's on the politics. then, david, my control room and i, and my producers were talking just as we were going into this convo that we just got this proposed schedule in the other case, so i want to keep both of you going into this next case, jack smith's mar-a-lago case and they want now a july 8th trial date and trump proposing an august 12th date and that would still be before the presidential election and that trial was slated for late may. david, i know you are getting this as we are because this just crossed from federal pacer and these are the filings. doj saying let's start the mar-a-lago documents case in july. trump saying august. your reaction? >> my first reaction was i was thinking last night when this ruling came out from the supreme court that if i'm jack smith that i would get this trial, not the documents case scheduled -- but the election case scheduled for the first business day after july 4th because you would have a ruling on the immunity issue by then. you can't have one defendant on trial in three courtrooms at the same time. so i'm a little surprised that they did this. it's also interesting, too, because i think what this tells us is that the trump camp probably sees being on trial in the documents case as good for his campaign because instead of trying to lay it as they have in the past, past the election, you're saying bringing it on now and they can basically run on this. if he gets convicted he can -- he thinks he can probably pardon himself and he thinks it's probably a good opportunity to get a free campaign, free air time and get his base all stirred up right on the eve of the election. so -- >> and david, with that said, let me jump in and when trump says okay, august, which is new and out tonight, we've heard a lot of talk here today about them ducking, delaying and avoiding a trial. if this is what's coming down the pike, obviously, the difference here on paper would seem to be thin. okay. it's a couple weeks apart, jack smith and trump, but does this mean we are likely to see the docs case begin before the fall or can the judge still do other things? >> the judge still could do other things, and i think with this particular judge it's been pretty hard to predict where she comes out. my guess is there aren't more people going with the trump-proposed date than with the smith proposed date and it will depend on her calendar and what surprises me most about this is that what it tells us, i think, as jack smith saying there ain't no way i'm getting to this election case before the election. >> fascinating and again, it's been a flurry of filings because this leading candidate for the republican nomination is also a defendant in several different jurisdictions. david, i'm going to tell you this, and i'm not just saying this because of our history, we appreciate your arguments and your counterarguments. good to see you, too, sir. >> any time. >> we're the wiser for it. jason, david, my special thanks here, juggling a lot and that's not all. we have coming up, the great james carville, his first time back on "the beat" since those elections and plus mitch mcconnell out and what we just discussed, the politics of 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[ laughter ] why don't you get a drink with mitch mcconnell? [ laughter ] >> obama telling them how he feels threw a punchline. mcconnell has now announced as of yesterday in a surprise speech on the senate floor he's stepping down as the longest-serving senate leader in american history. james carville is one of the longest-serving beat guests. we just don't have the same amount of time and the democratic strategist, the ragin cajun. welcome back, sir. that was a big one for washington. your thoughts on mitch mcconnell, what he's done and what it says about the republican party. >> if you're a person who believes the insufficient, dark, corporate money in american politics and the answer to all our problems is more corporate money or if you're a person that believes that the bureaucrats have insufficient control over the united states, mitch mcconnell may be the greatest living american. he is the american most responsible for the flood of corporate money and corporate influence in washington, the person most responsible for constricting people's rights and his record is that, you can love it or hate it, but it's right there. that's what mitch mcconnell's whole regime has been about and i might add rather successfully. i would rather change not the con stugd, but the law that you had nine supreme court justices, but eight. he on his own decided we'll have eight and of course, the democrats did nothing as is typical. so mitch mcconnell's legacy of flooding us with corporate money and flooding us with restrictions on bodily autonomy are intact and glorious right now. >> right, i mean, to paraphrase what you're saying, he took power from people, half the population with women and other ways and gave more power to the corporations that very few americans, by the way, across the spectrum think should have even more power when you put it like that. we have a little mash of his career, james, just to get you going. let's take a look. [ laughter ] >> our top political priority over the next two years should be to deny president obama a second term. our view is this, give the people a voice in filling this vacancy. the senate will appropriately revisit the matter when it considers the qualifications of the nominee the next president nominates. president trump is responsible for the provoking the events of the day. >> and now to a fox news alert, senate minority leader mitch mcconnell will vote to acquit former president trump. >> just some of recent history. you refer to what the democrats didn't do about it. given that mitch mcconnell used, as you said, power or abused power for all these ends, changed the composition of the supreme court played in different ways. what lessons, if any, are there for the democrats here? >> well, the lessons to the democrats is there's nothing legit about mitch mcconnell. there's nothing legit about holding up a supreme court nomination, there's nothing legit about saying that trump -- president trump was responsible for january 6th and then voting to acquit him when an impeachment could have taken him out from american politics for the rest of his life. my advice for democrats is you're playing one game they're playing another game. you're playing like the supreme court is really a legit institution and they are precedented or statutory construction or they don't do any such thing. they just -- whatever it takes to advance theocracy of corporate power. i'm 100% of predicting the outcome of any supreme court case because i'm going to go with restrictive rights and expanding corporate power and i'm going to be right 100 times out of a hundred. i promise you. james carville is the greatest, living predictor of the supreme court, i tell you. i've got the secret system. [ laughter ] >> well, it's funny you say that, james, because in law school they call that legal realism which means referring to the power and the politics of it and not the so-called precedent which, boy, seems to get changed a lot lately now that republicans have the majority, which they view as super majority on the court. it's your first time back on the program since we've gotten some more voter information, we have michigan on tuesday. trump won there and a lot of primary voters didn't choose him. she came in at 26 to 4 and trump has won four times, but we want to notice, if you total up the other republican candidates' voting share, what you say is pretty consistently and south carolina's her home state and michigan, yes, it's a little lower, but this is not a route or a mandate for a quasi incumbent and i'll show of some of what we heard in the media. >> former president donald trump has built up a massive lead of more than 30 points thus far over nikki haley. >> donald trump trounced nikki haley by a wide margin. >> on the republican side, former president trump won easily. nikki haley got just over 27%. >> another primary down and trump wins big. >> big, big, big. we keep hearing. these are certainly victories and they're certain mathematically on the road to clinching the nomination if they continue, but i wonder, james, does he have any concern if the third active primary voters aren't sold on trump right now? >> how could you not have concern? mccarthy got 38% or something like that in new hampshire and of course, and he's very weak. that's something people have to understand. his primary numbers are weak and his fund-raising numbers are even weaker. the democrats have such an advantage right now and they don't appreciate it and they all are about the supreme court which i have told my head what they were going to do. we're in a very commanding position in terms of fund raising and also in terms of dissatisfaction with trump among a significant part of the republican party. 30% is -- i don't know, that ain't chopped liver. that's a lot -- that's a lot of votes and your own party and what they're not getting and i think some might go to fore, some may go to five, i don't know, but he's very weak on fund-raising right now. >> i've got more for you. speaking of michigan on the republican side, we did show biden won 80% or so, 13% went ungetted because that fight affect the mideast policy and we did want to note, though because we like to deal with the evidence, obama during his election in 2012 had 10.6%, technically the vote was uncommitted and biden also got a higher percentage of michigan democrats and trump got michigan republicans and we put all those numbers up for you to help us make sense of them. does it match obama or is more complicated? what's going on here, on your part? >> first of all, the left wing of the democratic party has very little power and very little sway over vote, but the stuff in gaza is a problem and it's a pretty big problem that a lot of people and particularly a lot of democrats that are uncomfortable and it turned them out to the point that they would, not vote for president biden, but i'll tell you, ari. they don't get to stuff somehow another de-escalator and between nine and the convention in chicago, you don't want to imagine what's go r going to happen and all of those congresses and i remember the '68 convention and it was something horrific. >> well, i'll let you finish, but i wasn't around -- james, i wasn't around, but i studied. i think '68 when you had anti-war protests and mayor daly had police busting open progressives' heads and it was bad optics. that's an extreme example. you're saying what for this year's democratic convention? >> i'm saying if the stuff has not de-escalated in gaza by the time of the democratic convention there will be protests and very emotional and active protests and i don't know how much further it will be, i don't know if it will be 68 and maybe that's the watermark or something like that, but there's real angst in the country and it's not just snot-nosed kids. there's angst about the way that this war is being executed and it's hurting president biden, and he knows that. he tried to address it a couple of times. netanyahu needs to stay in power and i don't have a good feeling about where this is going to go and whether it's still around during the convention. i really don't? 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away with citizens united and then with shelby county, and then they found out they could get away with dobbs and they are going to continue to do this. alito pays for a bunch of gazillion airs and thomas is taking pictures. they get away with it. they have no ethical standards. they don't give you any more of of a reason for what they're doing than they absolutely have to, and this is -- you've had just an entire branch of government and this took place while democrats are winning the popular vote, and this is what you're going to get. this is imminently predictable and they're going to keep doing this because they keep getting away with it and the public has a lot of hoohaw and they have candlelight vigils and they'll give the corporations everything they want and the theocrats everything they want, and it will continue. i hate to say that, but that's what i see in the short-term future. >> you don't think vigils are effective political protests? >> no. i think writing checks and writing postcards -- by the way, we have $700 million in affiliated groups and we'll do a lot of wet work between now and the campaign, and the election day. i refer to it we'll go negative and we'll remind people of what's at stake in this country, but i don't think candlelight vigils and going around justice kavanaugh's house would do any good at all and there are a lot of things people can do, and and jack smith will not say you have to do it on your own. so let's strap in and get this thing done and -- because they're not -- >> you're reminding me of -- you know, harlan crow, the republican donor that the scotuses are buddying up to, he has a signed copy of hitler's mein kampf in his house and only he can explain why he spent money to show that off. these neo-nazis in new york, someone wrote a biting op ed about them and the other character says, yeah, i find that brics work better than op-eds if you have to fight nazis. >> that's so true, and one has $1 billion. these are affiliated groups that don't have hundreds of millions. they have billions of dollars and they play really hard politics and we do vigils and wine and cheese parties and we're getting beat out there. we're getting beat in the courts and you know, the only good news, i will say this, we are winning elections, but we have to keep pressing. we have to keep pressing, pressing, pressing. we have an advantage stuff and this abortion stuff is killing them and don't forget book burning and it's not a cultural issue, people don't like book burning all over the country wherever you go and they went all in with that and we have to go all in and remind people what they get. >> yeah. yeah. appreciate it. i'm out of time now, but we gave you two blocks because we find double james is better than single when will we get you so come back soon. appreciate you. >> thank you, ari. you bet. >> absolutely, james carville with a wake-up call. when we're back -- he's done with the block. foreign interference 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their fellow voter and they might not be. there's also an investigation of ai deployed maliciously in an american campaign after a magician explained they were hired to create a fake biden voice that was used by phone to contact actual american voters. there's also reports that russia continues its meddling playbook, which continues to find ways to recruit republicans who are supposed to know better to do campaigns and attacks that either benefit from russian material or do russia's bidding. we will be right back. 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( ♪ ♪ ) start your day with nature made. the #1 pharmacist recommended vitamin and supplement brand. finally tonight, that breaking news that crossed this hour in jack smith's other case on the mar-a-lago documents. special counsel smith now asking for a july 8th trial date in that case. donald trump's lawyers are saying any trial this year is unfair to him as a candidate, but then also relenting and saying if it must happen, they propose august 12th which would be before the election. the trial was originally scheduled for as early as may. what we're seeing in this back and forth is mow jack smith still has other cards to play even as he got a huge setback from the supreme court delaying the coup case. we're going to watch and see what the judge in florida does and whether that trial will get scheduled for before the election. thanks for watching "the beat" with ari melber. "the reidout" with joy reid is up next. . tonight on "the reidout" -- >> it is nothing in the case of biden on thursday, a cynical, sick political stunt by the president and frankly it is beyond disgraceful. we'll be at the border with president trump on thursday. >> what? i'm sorry, did you say something about beyond disgraceful? fox