won't be voting for joe biden in november. we'll roll this into a vicory in november. >> that is the chair of the party before the state's primary. they're expressing confidence democrats will turn out in november despite a sizable protest vote. president biden did win the state of michigan easily last night, but with more than 100,000 people casting ballots for uncommitted, mostly in protest over his handling of the israel-hamas war. on the republican side, donald trump racked up another big victory over nikki haley, but with some big warning signs for him there as well. good morning. welcome to "morning joe." it is wednesday, february 28th. with us the host of "way too early" jonathan lemire, correspondent for bbc news katy kay, editor for the "washington post" david ig nase shus. washington bureau chief for the new york times, and from politico, sam stein. we're going to have steve kornacki waiting over at the board to break down the numbers for us. a couple headlines, a big uncommitted vote against joe biden, but also, again, when you look at donald trump, nikki haley winning almost 300,000 votes in the state of michigan taking them away in the republican party from donald trump. >> and again, we talked about this yesterday, this is democracy. if there's a time that you're in michigan and want donald trump to be stopped, but you want to send a message to joe biden, you want to send a message to the white house regarding their position on the middle east and israel and gaza, it's a perfect time to do it. what do we hear? we heard the leader of the michigan democratic party saying this is what we're doing, and this is a wonderful time to do it. we are all aligned and want to see donald trump beaten and joe biden want to see him win in the fall. the same can't be said, though, can it, willie, for donald trump. you now -- he has over a quarter of the vote, voting against him. what you hear from supporters of nikki haley are that their votes are not transferable. >> that's right. >> they're not voting for donald trump. you hear time and time again republicans saying they're moving away from trump. also it's important to remember all the people like me that were once members of the republican party that left, people like me saying, they would never vote for donald trump and never vote for anybody that supported donald trump for one day. again, you have a lot of people, this is a republican party that keeps shrinking because of donald trump. and even inside of that shell of the old republican party, you've got whether it's 25% or 30 or 40% saying they're not going to vote for donald trump, that's going to have impact in the fall. >> yeah. barring a seismic event, donald trump is going to be the republican nominee, but in state after state after state, yes, his margin last night was bigger over nikki haley than it's been, but her winning almost 300,000 votes tells you a lot about where the republican party is. that's a big chunk of the party. nearly 30% last night saying we're not going along for the ride this time with donald trump. where do those votes go in the general election is a big question. let's go to the board and national correspondent steve kornacki breaking down the numbers. let's start there in the republican party. what did you see last night? >> yeah. i mean look overall here there are still a few votes to come in michigan, these numbers might change a little bit, but trump here, obviously, 68%, haley down at 26.5%. i think there's a couple things note worthy about it. one, you had the haley number in new hampshire. she got 43%. in south carolina she got 40. she made the idea of a 40% in a republican primary break from trump for her. she made that a big part of her message. that falls into the mid-20s last night. why did it fall into the mid-20s after being around 40 in the first two contests? the contours of haley's support or for that matter trump's opposition in these republican primaries so far has been clear demographically. it has tracked closely with educational attainment, particularly among white voters. that is to say, white voters with at least a four-year college degree have been the most trump resistant and the most willing to go and vote for nikki haley. add in white voters with college degrees who live in suburbs, who live in affluent areas, that's where we've seen haley driving up her biggest numbers in new hampshire and in south carolina. take it to michigan last night. where are those areas on this map. i'll show you a big one right here. this is oakland county, by itself is like 15% of the vote statewide in this primary and donald trump by nearly 30 points over nikki haley. this is the two major northern suburbs of detroit, suburban counties. you have oakland county and mccomb county. mccomb the classic blue collar suburb, built by the uaw, the autoworkers. that has been trump county. oakland county is the white collar suburb, significant growth, higher incomes and degrees where nikki haley was getting real good numbers in south carolina and new hampshire to bring her up to 40, she didn't do that last night in oakland county. this was one of her big opportunity counties if she wanted to replicate those performances, failed 30% here. more striking for haley look in washgnaw county, michigan university, affluent, all these things i'm talking about that are her democratic wheelhouse and she couldn't win here. her best county michigan 83 counties, is right here. she got 44.7, only a point and a half above what she got in new hampshire statewide. you can see just slippage here for haley and one other thing i think to keep in mind here, too, is significant to interpreting these primary results on the republican side has been the rules so far in the three primaries where trump and haley are going one on one, new hampshire, south carolina and michigan, and they have all allowed for the mass participation of non-republican voters. i think there's a lot of sort of suggestive evidence in the results so far that has been a significant part of haley's support in these states. a lot of it may well be coming from non-republicans who didn't vote for trump in 2020, didn't vote for trump in 2016, no intention as you were talking about of voting for trump in 2024, but because the rules allow them to participate and because their energy to vote against donald trump is off the charts high, there's i think a lot of tron suspect they're coming into the republican primaries to vote against donald trump. in terms of what that means for november i don't know. but i think it's significant last night that haley fell from the low 40s down to the mid 20s and if that -- if what i was just describing is or has been a phenomenon so far, it may be that it's cooling as we get away from the contests like new hampshire where they have months to campaign, south carolina where they had a month and now getting into the ones they go you're in for a day and campaign and go not next state, multiple state primaries. is that effect fading a bit? in michigan no party registration. anybody could vote. that was the same rule in south carolina but a different result. >> thanks, steve. we'll be right back with you for the democratic results. sam, this is simple, it's open primaries versus closed primaries and we've been saying all along this election is going to be won not across the fruited plains of america, it's going to be won in the suburbs of atlanta, philadelphia, detroit, and milwaukee. we have in detroit, again, i don't know, maybe people that run for office and are basically three-time incumbents, basically, maybe they're happy losing 45% of their own party's vote. in one county in the suburbs and 33% in another, but i will tell you, i would be like -- i would be hiding under the sheets if i were a politician and those were the results the next day. in the area i have to win, to win michigan and win the presidency. >> right. >> these are flashing red lights for donald trump and these people can whistle past the graveyard all they want, they can insult nikki haley all they want, donald trump can talk about how badly he's going to beat barack obama in the fall all he wants, these aren't good numbers. >> barack obama. yes. i think there are warning signs for obvious reasons. donald trump he's dependent on one thing really right now, which is joe biden not being able to turn out the vote. donald trump, he clearly has a ceiling, right. he's not making overtures to win over the voters or be nice or magnanimous to nikki haley. he went back to attacking her on sunday. it's not a campaign trying to expand the tent. it's the campaign that is what it is. it's donald trump. so his path to the general election really depends on biden's coalition fracturing or falling apart and it's a race to the bottom there. it will be in the suburbs if that's the case, and that's where the election will come down to, because, frankly, that's the main competition between the two. donald trump for two cycles has lost the suburbs over and over again. >> right. >> so what are they doing about it? >> i haven't seen much from the republican party to fix this. i don't know if i want to say that, because the response to the ivf ruling shows they recognize they have a problem. the question is what will they do about it? i don't know quite yet what they're going to do about it legislatively or politically because the course correction will not come from trump. >> let me tell you, wanting to unite a party and i think i'm going to win, you go out and say nikki haley, wow. let's give her a hand. she just she's a candidate and, man, i'm going to want her to be part of my administration. >> that's not donald trump's character. >> no. what i am doing here is what politicians -- >> of course. >> for thousands of years. >> expanding the coalition. yes. >> it's called winning, right. so he can't do it, and so no, he's not being nice, he's not being magnanimous. let's stay on the powder blue side, the spring side of the morning table. >> the stylish side. >> yeah. >> let's stay there. i want to talk for one minute, since donald trump came on the scene in june 2015 you have a republican doing something no other republican has done. give nikki haley her due. she should have done this before, that before, but nikki haley is taking the incoming from donald trump, as barack obama would motion, she's doing that, and she's going state by state by state. this is something marco rubio was too much of a coward to do, this is something rand paul was too much of a coward to do, we can take it through 2024. nikki haley is keeping her head down and saying, i'm going to keep going, i'm going to keep going harder at him and let's see what happens. that's -- donald trump hasn't had to deal with that yet in his political career. >> he's not taking it well. she's really tough, tougher than the men have been so far. she has enough money to go for some time at least. doesn't look good for her this year but she's looking to 2028. the other thing about donald trump, not only is he not being nice to her, he's being -- the things he has said about her, her husband, about her marriage. it is a new low even for donald trump, the way he is going after her personally and her husband. >> right. >> who is a veteran. >> serving. something donald trump would not know anything about. >> that is kind of extraordinary. >> mr. -- >> we've discussed before but in south carolina it was so interesting, he was supposed to win by 30 points. he won by 20. still a lot of votes, but so many of nikki haley's voters said they would never vote for donald trump like 60%. >> right. >> again big warning sign for him. >> programming note, alex tells me i was being covered when i made the barack obama motion. that's what we were saying. that's what nikki haley is doing willie geist. it's driving donald trump a little bit crazy. a little bit crazier. >> in fairness, barack obama borrowed that from jay-z dirt off the shoulder, there's a whole line of succession there. let's talk about the democratic side for just a minute here. steve, the story of the night that uncommitted vote we did hear at the top of the show from the state's party chair inside the democratic party saying we want to send a message here that policy and the united states unconditional support of israel needs to stop. they're calling for a full cease-fire, which isn't going to happen. clearly making a point look, we're not going to go vote for donald trump. he's proposed again a muslim ban. we're not going to vote for that guy. but something needs to change if you want our vote in november. >> it's interesting. we are seeing here actually the delegate results. i'm not sure to be honest why i can't get the overall statewide vote up here. the delegate vote is worth lingering on here. joe biden is taking currently all of the delegates allocated but not all have been aloe gaited in michigan. while it is an overwhelming the headline is an overwhelming victory for joe biden around 80% of the vote, but that question of uncommitted we were talking about, some very particular places. the two types of places we wanted to see how that was doing, number one, places with large arab american populations, large muslim american populations and places with large college populations, college students, college faculty and staff. we've seen activism on college campuses against joe biden's israel hams policy. would that translate into uncommitted votes in that kind of a place too. what were the test counties? the biggest one in the state, wayne county, where detroit is, and we don't have all the vote in wayne county, but detroit is not really the story in wayne county. it's one city, deerborn, 110,000 people n wayne county and dearborn is a majority arab american county that has the largest concentration per capita of muslim americans of any city in the united states and what happened in dearborn last night, uncommitted beat donald trump in dearborn by a 56 to 41% totally. again, you see what that translates into county wide, not much, but -- i'll show you as well, that's dearborn with a large arab american population and then you go next door to washna, university of michigan, eastern michigan university, college faculty, all the factors we're talking about here, uncommitted landing at about 17% right here in washtenaw county. when we get to the question zero for uncommitted right now, rule on the democratic side are different than the republican side. all you have to do to start collecting delegates is hit 15% of the vote statewide or within a congressional district in a state, and because that uncommitted vote, the strongest uncommitted vote is concentrated in a small, geographic area, i showed you it's part of wayne county and washanaw county, there's a washanaw based district and looks like uncommitted is going to pick up a delegate there and dearborn is included in michigan's 12th congressional district, where rashida tlaib represents in congress, a delegate not allocated yet, but seems a distinct possibility in the 13th district, detroit-based district but has also a significant arab american muslim population, we may, nothing official, but we may be in a situation where uncommitted does walk away with three delegates to the democratic national commission. that's a drop in the ocean when talking about the delegate race, but that may be what the uncommitted side got out of this. the big question, the question the uncommitted folks want people asking off this result is hey, go back in 2020 it was a 150,000 maher vote but in 2020 trump only won by 11,000. they want them to see the numbers and say that could make the difference. better get good with those voters. >> that uncommitted movement believes it made its point last night with a big number moving on to minnesota on super tuesday, washington state and other places to continue to do that. national political correspondent steve kornacki, thanks as always. message received jonathan lemire by the biden white house and campaign last night? >> they knew this was coming. warning signs are more significant for donald trump but what happened last night also caught the biden team's attention. a few notes here. first of all, the movement here, the uncommitted movement, set a threshold of 10,000 vote. that was smart because they easily eclipsed that and generated more buzz. they tied it to the margin between trump and clinton back in 2016. we knew the number would be bigger. the last time a democratic president ran for re-election, barack obama in 2012, there was 11% of the vote in michigan uncommitted. that's a similar number here. but the biden re-election team knows they've got an issue in michigan with populations, arab american population, the muslim american population. they believe some of those votes will come home in november, particularly if the war in gaza has faded from the headlines, if there is a cease-fire in place and the conflict has stopped. some of those voters, this was deeply personal, angry, not going to come back. they're going to stay home or find a third-party candidate. they're not going to vote for trump but they won't be votes biden needs so his team looking to other paths because they know how important michigan is. more or less a must win in november. >> a couple days ago as we discussed yesterday, president biden was in this building eating ice cream, suggesting a temporary cease-fire was imminent. yesterday both the israeli and hamas poured cold water on that optimism. >> yeah. by the way, did you go back, willie, and look at the black and white footage of fdr giving his speech on december 8th. >> the chocolate cone gets lost. >> chocolate cone gets lost with the wood behind it right on the lectern, but he's doing it. so this is great moments. it happens. so david, it's not just, though, this war and what's happening in gaza is not just impacting arab americans, it's impacted younger americans. you see numbers that are breaking dramatically and if you look at young men who are becoming more republican for a lot of social reasons we can explain in the coming months, that's one thing, but even young women who should be breaking hard given what's happened with roe and dobbs and then dobbs, it's not happening yet. long way to go. but this does present a two-front challenge for biden. >> i thought this, the michigan primary, showed what each candidate's biggest problem is for trump it is this hard movement never trumpers, voters voting for haley, nowhere near a majority, but they're there. for biden, it's this problem of disinterest, young voters who don't like his views on the gaza war, who just kind of tune out think he's too old and so i think for each of them, michigan highlighted the theme that we'll see now rolling through the campaign. my own feeling is that biden did better on the uncommitted problem, notwithstanding that dearborn was more than i might have thought. sometimes we talk to young democrats you think wow, they're just so angry, nobody is going to turn out for him. that isn't the case. why the white house is so focused on -- i almost want to say desperate to get this hostage deal in the gaza war and a cease-fire at a moment where you can begin to deescalate because they know there is building in the democratic party and in the world this sense that this war just can't go on. the united states is aiding israel to a lot of the world sees as unjust. i think president biden says it's coming next week. you couldn't get an israeli to agree with that, but you sure have the president expressing enthusiasm. if they get that, i think they'll really begin to defuse that issue and we will see the deescalation they want. >> it's fascinating, these numbers last night for democrats, about 12, 13% for joe biden uncommitted. barack obama in 2012 had 10.7%. there's nothing radical or revolutionary about that and barack obama did pretty well in the fall. katy, yesterday, we were talking about the steps that biden administration was making, the news that you actually had the cabinet, the palestinian authority cabinet, go, white house people and the national security staff, trying to find a replacement for abbas, trying to find leadership they can build a two-state solution around, and this isn't, obviously, not just pressure from american voters, there are arab allies working around the clock saying we're going to be side by side with you to make this two-state solution happen, but we've got to get the right people, we've got to do this the right way, and we've got to get moving. it's fascinating. the biden administration is moving forward on all fronts and they've been working tirelessly around the clock. i suspect, you know, at some point netanyahu goes and great gains are made, but the question is, the timing. will it happen before november? will it happen in time? >> as quick as possible from the white house's point of view. one difference between last night in michigan in 2012 and barack obama is that there wasn't in 2012 one coalescing clear reason why people were voting uncommitted which there is at the moment and it is that issue of gaza that needs to be resolved to make those uncommitted voters jump back on the biden train. i think to some extent, the palestinian americans and arab americans the damage has been done and hard to rectify. it was the early missteps they accuse the administration making early on when joe biden went and embraced netanyahu and arab leaders wouldn't see him, when he questioned -- i've heard this from arab americans why did he question the number of children who have been killed. why did he go out early and question the hamas health authority numbers? yes, we get the numbers from the hamas health authority, but we knew at that stage thousands of children were being killed or left orphans and it's that sense that the administration was callous about it until the point where antony blinken said he looked into the eyes of children in gaza and saw his own children. i don't know how much catch-up they can make with some of this group the damage has been done, and if you lost family members you're not going to forget that come november. >> there are six months to talk to most of the voters there and point out the fact that joe biden early on, david, was also criticizing extremists on the west bank, and he made sure at the beginning of this war, and he will have to continue doing that. it seems to me, because we're talking, people may be thinking, we're just conducting foreign policy for the sake of voters in a couple of counties in michigan -- >> not just michigan. >> it's not the case, though. what is happening right now in gaza is bad for the united states because we are seen as israel's sponsor all over the world, and i've got to say for the israelis, it's bad for israel. israel has to understand this isn't hyperbole. they are losing an entire generation of young americans who will not be there to support them five, ten, 20 years from now when they become policymakers unless we move toward a two-state solution. maybe they think they can tell the world to go to hell, but all they're doing is condemning themselves to a bleak future, a bleaker future, where they're going to be completely isolated in the region and the world, unless they do something dramatic soon >> so you could argue that bib, netanyahu the prime minister began this process of making israeli a more partisan issue in america back under president obama when he appealed directly to republicans an many democrats began to feel, gee, our traditional loyalty to israel, maybe that's not so strong -- >> are you saying he didn't rise above the political fray? i only ask that, that's a leading question. netanyahu retweeted a donald trump nasty tweet about "morning joe." and i looked at it and i laughed and i said, you've got hamas to worry about and you're going on twitter to attack "morning joe." >> all politics is local. >> yeah. you know, netanyahu is a master politician. he doesn't seem to understand that he is on a collision course with the united states president and they are running out of options. they have an option to sharpen rhetorical differences. they've already begun that. they have an option to not exercise the u.s. veto the next time a resolution is before the security council to call for a cease-fire. we're closer to that than bibi seems to realize and we have an option to begin to condition the u.s. weapons to israel on their actions. bibi is taking them into territory i would have said six months ago i couldn't imagine getting in that. we're there now. those are the choices. >> the other thing is that the netanyahu and biden are in a complete -- their timeframe is completely working against each other. netanyahu wants to stay in office as long as he possibly can, the minute the war is over, he will face his fate and possibly be removed from office and biden, obviously -- >> thrown in jail. >> right. >> and biden, obviously, as we discussed, needs to get this war over tomorrow. >> on the u.s. policy making ground, 10, 20 years from now, you will see a fairly wild shift between the democratic administration and republican administration. just look at the polls right now. the perception of israel among democratic voters has plummeted and used to not be that way. it was a bipartisan consensus. that is netanyahu coming to the u.s. congress giving a speech against the iran nuclear deal may have been a strategic move for the movement, but i think there's a lot of ramifications for that. >> you know, willie, the damage that's being done, it's being done every day by netanyahu. we can go back and look at the damage he did leading up to the war in 2018, knowing the funding of hamas sources, and he and trump refusing to cut them off in 2018. his person going to doha and actually having qatar ask, hey, do you want us to keep funding hamas a couple weeks before the attacks, and he said yes. he had the war plans a year beforehand, his administration did, did nothing to prepare for it. they were woefully ill equipped and shamelessly, shamefully nej the day of, watching his people get raped, burned, killed, babies shot. sometimes taking six, seven, eight, ten hours to go down and save their own people. you can go on and on. but now, the israeli people are allowing stay in power a man causing generational damage to israel's cause on the globe. the question is, when are they going to remove him from office and move forward with a new leader that can actually start healing some of these wounds? >> and the fact of the matter is, from the american point of view, we can say all the right things, president biden can put pressure on the prime minister privately, the prime minister netanyahu can say we appreciate our friendship with the united states, it's our strongest ally, thank you for your support, but we're going to do what we're going to do. we were attacked october 7th and there will be civilian deaths because hamas hides behind civilians. netanyahu is not going to change his course because joe biden raised his voice at him in a phone call. he's moving forward with what he calls the moving out of hamas. >> we've seen the pressure from the white house only increase in recent weeks behind the scenes, but also in public from the president, yes, but more so from secretary of state, from the secretary of defense, national security adviser and otherwise. the stern warnings as netanyahu considers his rafah campaign, which would still be likely a few weeks off if it were to happen, we heard from the prime ministers the other day, yes, he says we can talk about a cease-fire, we can talk about hostages being released. we're not going to offer you a permanent end of the war. it's going to happen at some point and the u.s. and u.n. and other organizations have said you have to safeguard the civilians there. the israeli don't seem all that interested in doing so. if they don't and the civilian toll and the humanitarian crisis only grows, then yes, not only is there more of a global backlash for israel as just discussed, but it will blow back on president biden at home who has been so staunch in support of israel and that could be a moment where there might knee to be a breaking point in terms of condition of aid and military assistance. >> yes, joe. >> there is a humanitarian crisis going on in gaza right now. it is unspeakable. >> it's horble. >> there is an unspeakable humanitarian crisis going on in gaza right now. there is starvation. there are people -- people are so thirsty they're drinking saltwater. families, entire families, living in tents. they've been told to go so the southern part of gaza and now told go to the northern part of gaza, there's no services no supplies, nothing. it is a massive humanitarian crisis. and so just saying, my bad, that's not going to get it oop i think the biden administration understand that, but again, the devastation to the people of gaza, as well as to israel, diplomatically, cannot for the next six weeks or six months, isn't something people are going to forget in six months, what they're doing right now, especially if they do this final push, this will be with israel for a generation and the ramifications will be absolutely brutal in the united states, with younger voters and in europe. >> could not agree more. everything you said is right about what happens next for israel, how it's perceived here in the united states and around the globe. it's more just a limit to what president biden and his team can do. they can't oust netanyahu. only so much pressure they can apply. >> they can go against him in the security council. >> they haven't reached that point yet. when will that happen? when do they put conditions on aid they're sending or stop selling military supplies or sending military supplies to israel? there have been conversations about that. i think there's a hope in the administration that some sort of cease-fire deal can be struck. ideally in the next week or two. that could be a pivot point. if it doesn't. if hamas and israel can't come together on the cease-fire hostage deal pressure will only increase on the white house to do something as things will just get harder here at home for president biden as well. >> much more on this in just a moment when richard haass joins the table. also ahead on "morning joe," congressional leaders came out of a meeting with president biden at the white house yesterday with a unified message for house speaker mike johnson, avoid the government shutdown looming this friday. the latest from capitol hill ahead of that deadline. >> where things stand on u.s. aid for ukraine and israel, as the ukrainians call for that help now. plus, house republicans are set to question hunter biden today as part of their impeachment inquiry into the president. we'll be joined by two democrats on the oversight committee ahead of that closed-door deposition. you're watching "morning joe," on a busy wednesday morning. we'll be right back. y morning. we'll be right back. liberty mutual customized my car insurance and i saved hundreds. that's great. i know, i've bee telling everyone. baby: liberty. oh! baby: liberty. how many people did you tell? only pay for what you need. jingle: ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ baby: ♪ liberty. ♪ the all new godaddy airo helps you get your business online in minutes with the power of ai... ...with a perfect name, a great logo, and a beautiful website. just start with a domain, a few clicks, and you're in business. make now the future at godaddy.com/airo when my doctor gave me breztri for my copd, things changed for me. breztri gave me better breathing, symptom improvement, and reduced flare—ups. breztri 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it's secure. i believe the president can take executive authority right now today to change that and told him that in person as i've said many times publicly privately over the last several weeks. it's time for action. >> this commercial brought to you by the re-elect joe biden campaign and the dnc. i'm telling you, it is a -- i talked about this a little bit yesterday, willie, about the fact that for the first time i was talking to a trump supporter earlier this week and they were going through all the issues and i sat there politely, eating my ice cream cone, yeah, eating my ice cream cone, got to the border and at that point, i stopped just sort of doing the incoming and i put my finger in his chest and said hey, that's a bunch of malarkey because it is. and i actually started to lean in, and he knew where i was going and stopped and said, let's talk about something else. i'm telling you, mike johnson does not realize that he is somehow neutralized after years and years of policy mistakes by democrats, he is neutralized the issue of the southern border and allowing fentanyl to flood in, allowing illegal immigrants to flood in, because he and donald trump have said, we don't want the toughest border bill in the past 40 years. you have the speaker and mike johnson. as they say. but, yeah, johnson got teamed up on inside that meeting by everybody, republicans and democrats alike, saying what are you doing, kid? it was kind of embarrassing. reports from inside that he just was overmatched and alone. >> yeah. take up the spending bill. we're not doing a shutdown. by the way, we gave you the best possible immigration bill you're going to get. i liked that you, too, are having questions shouted at you at the baskin-robbins like the president did the other day and assembled media going after you. the bite we heard was speaker johnson outside the white house after the meeting joe is talking about between president biden and vice president harris, congressional leaders. it was about government funding and the senate passed foreign aid package. so first of all, we can take the shutdown friday at midnight looking better today. there seems to be pressure on him to get through that moment and get something short term passed, but also, these larger questions of, as we say all the time, voters are really smart and when you're saying we have to do something on the border they know that there was something done on the border in a bipartisan fashion two weeks ago, so you can't complain there's nothing being done. >> i'm struck by the footage. president biden really has the fire roaring in the oval office. look at that. it was mild in d.c. yesterday and he's trying to sweat out the republicans i guess. tremendous visual there. yes, good news and bad news in terms of outcomes from that meeting. there seems to be an agreement about the government shutdown, that everyone seems to want to avoid that, even speaker johnson afterwards saying so. mechanics have to get done. far right members in the house, republicans who would rather turn the lights off, sit at home, make a political point. seems like johnson, though, at least would be willing to do a continuing resolution to kick this a couple weeks to avoid clearing the super tuesday, clearing and address it again. for now there is still that march 1st deadline. joe, the bigger -- the sense on ukraine, senator schumer came out and spoke to reporters outside the west wing said it was one of the most intense discussions he's ever been a part of. it was four or five on one. the president, the vice president, schumer and yes, mcconnell who kind of has been quiet on ukraine, he wasn't yesterday. he was forceful and they all ganged up on johnson and says this has to get done, but johnson, to this point, not committing to do it and voters to willie's point can see through his bluff on the border. >> well, and when mitch mcconnell is leaning in on the house republican speaker, it's not just mitch mcconnell. it's mitch mcconnell, john thune, it's the leadership. >> it's the republicans. >> the house republicans. this is a republican party. >> as well as republicans in the house that are running committees. >> against a small portion, the far right republicans, marjorie taylor green and matt gaetz. the way johnson came out looking trying to put on a brave front, but we are told he really -- they really came down on him and what's interesting to me, after the other leaders had left, biden pulled him aside and spoke to him and i would like to know what biden said to him, but i'm sure it was like, look, man, do you want go down as the person who gave ukraine to putin. something like that. >> sam, what did he say? >> what do you know? >> i wish i was there. >> hey, man, what did you think of the fire? no. that was for you. that was for you. no. it was about ukraine. obviously, everyone knows what's going on here. mike johnson is the stopgap for not just a ukraine bill, but the national security supplemental includes funding for israel and taiwan. and johnson's position is, frankly, very hard to defend, if not completely untenable because he did not take up that border bill he's now asked for in terms of policy vis-a-vis executive action. the question really is, what is the sort of offering for johnson? as much pressure being applied in the private meetings, including by mcconnell, there's not an offer. if he does bring this to the floor -- >> there's discharge potential. >> the workaround. if he were to bring up the national security supplemental, he would be risking the speakership, he can make the case that's worth it. he doesn't feel that way. there hasn't been a movement to try to find a sort of compromise consensus they can rally around. talk about a more limited funding bill for ukraine. but it looks like they're just going to keep kicking this down the road. they'll always have a reason. this could be our future. >> until election day. >> basically. keep going and going. >> david, you have the majority of republicans in washington, certainly in the house, you have the leaders, supporting ukraine, understanding that whether you want this war to go all the way to the border or whether you want a suit for peace or suit for cease-fire, the only way to get there is giving the $61 billion to ukraine. >> it's silly, joe. i'm told johnson keeps saying in private to everybody who talks to him, i'm going to get this done eventually. the message he keeps sending is, this will pass. give me some time. i hear you. i thought yesterday reminded us of the powers of incumbents. joe biden summons all the congressional leadership to the white house. they listen to him. he tells them, you know, they come out three of the four are entirely with the president supportive. my own view is that this incumbent president is going to use executive action to do something on the border soon. i'm told by the white house this is coming. will that take away johnson's trump card? will he see this as we have to do something on the border. the president may -- >> here's the problem with executive action by the president. first of all, it's going to be immediately challenged by the courts. >> and it will show that he responded to their criticism. >> but also does not give him any money to actually do things at the border like add more border control. >> that's their fault. they have to pass it. he just says -- >> it's a setup for him. i did exactly what you asked. you didn't do what i asked. here's where we are. >> you have marjorie taylor greene you put this on the floor i will come out with a motion to get rid of you, he is hostage just as mccarthy was. still hostage, five, six, seven far right members. >> i mean -- >> of the republican party who are holding up ukraine's chances literally holding up ukraine's chances of winning. >> i don't know of standing in the way of mike mccaul and others who care about what happens in taiwan, ukraine, israel, i don't know what's stopping them from going to the speaker and maybe they have, we're going to give you a week. then we're going to sign a discharge petition. that happened when i was there, people would go to newt get it done or we're going to get it done. we don't want to roll you, embarrass you, we have a week. i would be surprised if that wasn't going on, because that way, they do a discharge petition, put it on the floor and if these crazies have any -- they can take it up with mccall who will tell them in no uncertain terms to go straight to hell. he's not answerable to them. and you get it done. we have coming up "morning joe's" senior golf correspondent and also the chairman emeritus of the council on foreign relations, richard haass. he'll unpack all of this and pick his early favorite for the masters when we return. turn here's to getting better with age. here's to beating these two every thursday. help fuel today with boost high protein, complete nutrition you need... ...without the stuff you don't. so, here's to now. boost. so, you've got the power of xfinity at home. now take it outside with xfinity mobile. so, here's to now. like speed? it's the fastest mobile service around... and right now, you can get a free line of our most popular unlimited plan. all on the most reliable 5g network nationwide. ditch the other guys and you'll save hundreds. get a free line of unlimited intro for 1 year when you buy one unlimited line. plus, get an eligible 5g phone on us. switch to xfinity mobile today! biden told reporters yesterday that he's optimistic about a cease-fire in gaza by next week, and this was awkward, while i was eating ice cream. how about a minute to put down my cone, dude! >> time to bring peace to a region that has known far too much -- tragedy. what i love most about this is how awkward this moment is for seth meyers. just, mwah! fantastic. >> in joe biden's defense, he had the ice cream first. it's not like they asked him about gaza and he said, hold on, if we're going to talk about war, i've got to get a mint chip. >> they did have seth framed up there. please, push in on the president. let's bring in president emeritus of the president on foreign relations, richard haas. we need to start right there. i've just been handed a bulletin that says you worked at the baskin robins long island location when you were in the fifth grade. >> the first thing, when you scoop, you learn to put lots of air in the scoop, so it looks like it's a big piece of ice cream on top, but you've saved the store money, because a lot of it is actually oxygen. >> so trick the customer? >> it increases the flavor, because the air interacts with the ice cream and enhances the flavor. >> fascinating stuff, particularly when you're scooping for the president of the united states. >> let's pick up the conversation i was having a minute ago, if i could move on from baskin robins, about the position the president of the united states is in right now. we saw 100,000 votes, mostly in protest of the way the united states is supporting israel and its prosecution of the war against hamas. what needs to change there. not so much for the president, but for israel and hamas and the way that war is going? >> look, at most, you'll get another tactical cease-fire. why the president predicted it, seems to me to have been a tactical care, because he doesn't control. if anything, it gives others more leverage. >> and israel hamas both said, i don't know what he's talking about. >> one would think he did it in the run-up to michigan, but this may come back to hurt him a bit, but even if you get a tactical cease-fire, you don't have any of the pre-requisites of what you might call a strategic cease-fire, about a lasting political process. the two sides are far, far, far apart. israel is still looking at a long-term occupation, no role for the palestinian authority. and to say they're not on the same page, they're not in the same book. and i think with the united states, what the biden administration has to do is simply take a different approach. up to now for five months, what we've been doing is saying, we're sympathetic with israel, but we disagree with this, this, and that. urging israel, trying to persuade israel, it's not working. what the administration has to do is chart its own course. introduce our own resolutions in the united nations. i still think the president should travel to israel, give a speech to the israeli people from the knesset. i don't think he should deny israel military aid, but start conditioning its use. we have end-user controls with every other country. start saying you can't use large bombs in certain types of situations. why don't we put some economic limits on israeli ability to export goods made in settlements or in the occupied territories to the united states. force them to be labeled, not that they're made in israel, they're made in the occupied territories, and maybe put certain tariffs on them. i think there's lots of things the united states could do to chart an independent policy, not put all of its eggs in the basket of trying to bring israel around, because this government in israel is not going to be brought around. >> is it fair to say, richard, that prime minister netanyahu can say all the right things publicly, we appreciate the support of our great ally, the united states, we stand shoulder-to-shoulder with them, but privately is going to do what he's going to do in gaza. >> well, he's clearly going to do what he's going to do, and he's not even going to say the right things. he's backed away from any commitment on two states. actually, if he has to, he'll run against joe biden. he'll say, i am all that stands between you, the israeli people and hamastan. but he will have it and he will try to use it to his political advantage. >> richard, we talk a lot about how vladimir putin is playing a waiting game for november to see if donald trump comes back in office. in benjamin netanyahu doing the exact same thing, playing a waiting game to see if donald trump comes back in office. >> most of the world is, china is to see what our commitment is to taiwan after the election. vladimir putin obviously to see what happens with votes on ukraine. and bibi netanyahu would very much like to have donald trump back in the white house and essentially a feeling that you would no longer have american pressure. what was the centerpiece of the trump policy, the abraham accords. normalization between israel and the states. no mention of the palestinians. it's when the arab emirates insisted, if you want us to normalize with israel, here's the price. israel can't annex certain territory. it has to be greater palestinian control over its territories. the problem if mr. trump becomes president again here, the arab world has changed. the saudis right now, as a result of the last five months, are saying, we want to normalize with israel, but we have a price. and now we -- in order to politically protect ourselves, we have to insist that israel do a lot for the palestinians. so i think the days of essentially pushing the palestinian issue off to the side are over. but your larger point is exactly right. there is lots of the world, probably the indians and some others would like to see a president who doesn't particularly care about human rights, isn't pushing certain diplomatic outcomes, and obviously, the authoritarians are all hoping for a return of trump to the white house. >> you know what's so fascinating to me, david ignatius, is that when you do talk to people in the region, they have two conditions. one condition is the israelis are going to have to get with the program. second condition, though, is, hey, americans, you help us get some palestinian leaders that are actually going to be technocrats and know how to improve the lives of their people or we're not going snow up. don't ask us to contribute to yet another corrupt leadership, group of leaders, in the west bank, or in gaza. and for people that -- people that read the news in black and white, and people who think they understand, this is just about arab leaders having problems with israel, no, no, if you talk to the saudis, if you talk to the emiraemiratis, jordanians, will tell you, this isn't just about israel. we keep getting asked to help the palestinians, and it's one thief, their words, not mine, one thief after another thief after another thief. they steal our money. they do nothing narrow people. and then you come back asking us to help ten years later. we're not going to do it unless you get it right this time. >> so the palestinians are as angry about their corrupt incompetent, you have to say, government, as other arab conditions are, as israel is. when i was traveling west bank in december, i kept hearing that on this question of, as prime minister netanyahu was saying, as time is going to run out the clock, he's going to wait for donald trump. he does not have infinite time. he has of something under 100 israeli hostages being held in brutal conditions by hamas. that is a ticking clock and israelis are anger. they want those hostages out. the idea that netanyahu could just kind of fight on and you know, we'll deal with the hostages later, no, that is not so. netanyahu also has a problem that he's created something that he can't control. i've been struck since the beginning of this war, for the lack of a real israeli plan for what happens next. you know, this is now a lawless state. it's like somalia. it's just completely crazy on israel's border. it's not going to be an acceptable solution. this idea that, oh, well, beebee will just wait it out, i don't think that's as realistic as people are implying. >> i hear that too. real frustration from visiting american officials who go there and say, where is the political plan from the israeli side. i've heard american officials say, there is a kind of big picture deal that could be done here, right? the saudis have recognition of israel, in return, they get security guarantees from the united states to protect them against iran. there's a potential here for a big, potentially positive -- >> they were working towards that. what's your feeling in the white house now of whether any of that still looks like it's something that they can put off? because i know that's what they want, but i haven't heard so much about it in the last week or two. is netanyahu just providing too much of an obstacle? >> i think it's way down the road. i think it was a dream at the time, potentially possible, but i think right now the focus is just on getting this cease-fire and getting the hostages out. you know, one step at a time. i don't see that as happening anytime soon. >> well, i want to pick up on something you talked about and asked richard about. because one big component here is the domestic political situation for netanyahu. and whether or not he does have time to just wait out this election. richard, what is the actual domestic political pressures on netanyahu? is there a possibility that an election gets called prior to our own election, and he gets ousted? i think a lot of viewers don't really understand how israeli politics works, and whether he can be manipulated to a degree by domestic political actors in this country? >> sam wing it's a reach. there are two ways he could lose power. one is through a parliamentary reshuffling. he's got a four-seed advantage at the moment. i don't see anyone able to do that. there's a coalition government at the moment. too much self-interest to keep it in place. there's the election scenario, possibly, if there was some kind of a general strike that put pressure on the government. but again, it's a reach. and he's got the advantage, if you will, of momentum. he's there. so, sure, there's the possibilities of his being forced, but i think a lot of it is a kind of vain hope of people who want to see a change there, and under the pressure of war -- and by the way, there's still the possibility of expanded war in the north. i just think it's unlikely that he gets pushed out. i think we have to plan -- let me put it this way, sam. i think we have to plan for the likelihood that u.s./middle east policy is going to be made against the backdrop that this government is going to be in place for this year. and to bank u.s. policy that somehow bibi's forced out and we have a new israeli government that's a partner, that's a second big assumption. it's quite possible he could be forced out. again, i think it's a long shot. but the idea that he would be replaced by some government that really wants to work with us in the direction of a quote/unquote two-state solution, people are ignoring the fact of how israeli -- the center of israeli politics have mutual fund to the right significantly. so, yes, bibi netanyahu, i would say, is an enormous obstacle, but this israel has changed result of october 7th and given demographic changes. so we shouldn't assume that there's something much better out there and waiting. >> and, willie, to that point, when people are wondering why there isn't more of a push to try to pressure netanyahu to leave, his replacement, most likely, would be gantz. gantz right now, as it pertains to executing this war against the gazan people, there's not a lot of space there. so if you're -- actually, if you're the biden white house, you're probably thinking, we don't want a new israeli prime minister who gets damaged in america, and that we have to deal with, that is deeply unpopular in america and across the west. so maybe they allow netanyahu to carry this until such time that gantz can come in and have some kind of break, but gantz will continue doing exactly what netanyahu is doing right now. we're in the post-9/11 people for the israeli people, as far as they're concerned, and they are lined up that this war should be continued until hamas is destroyed. >> yeah, they suffered a horrific, unimaginable attack on october 7th and they want revenge for that. and that's the mind-set right now, and you can certainly understand it. sam stein, richard ural, richard haas, and david ignatius, thank you all so much. as we cross into the top of a new hour, let's get back to the results from michigan's presidential primary. donald trump won again by a wide margin, but nikki haley did receive significant support, nearly 27% of the vote there. her campaign responding to those results with a statement writing, donald trump is losing about 35% of the vote. that's a flashing warning sign for trump in november. yesterday, haley also made pitches to voters in colorado and minnesota, which hold primaries next week on super tuesday. >> the first thing i want to talk about is, we're going to talk about the state of colorado. because the reason i'm concerned is i came from michigan, where in 2012, they were a beacon of light. they were winning races up and down the ticket. and when i was there this week, they've lost the governor's mansion, they've lost the statehouse, they've lost the state senate, since donald trump was president. then we went to minnesota. same thing. they lost the governor's mansion, they don't have the statehouse, they don't have the state senate, and they're feeling everything go the other way. now i'm in colorado and i'm looking at the fact that no republican has gotten over 45% statewide since donald trump was president. the truth of the matter is, chaos follows him, everywhere he goes, chaos follows him. and we can't be a country in disarray and a world on fire and go through four more years of chaos. we wouldn't survive it. the democrats are salivating at the thought of it being donald trump. they are salivating, because they know they can defeat him. they defeated him in 2018, they defeated him in 2020, they defeated him in 2022, and they know that they're going to defeat him again in 2024. joe biden is not going to be the candidate. you're going to find the democrats go put someone younger in, and we're going to be stuck with another loss and a president kamala harris. that is what will happen if donald trump is the nominee. >> nikki haley with a message to republican voters. meanwhile, on the democratic side, president biden won easily in michigan, the only real opposition he faced came from voters casting ballots for uncommitted, protesting his handling of the israel war. now, jonathan lemire, katty kay still with us as well. joe? >> peter baker, the -- joe biden gave up maybe 12, 13%, you had barack obama in 2012 give up maybe 11%. i don't see panic inside the white house. they feel like they have a way to go here. but what do they think they need to do between now and november to get those voters back? >> they have to end the war. it's as simple as them. the timetable they thought this was going to play out has not played out. they would hoped that the war in gaza would be over by january, so by summer, we would be on to reconstruction and peace making and the voters were mad at younger voters and our american voters would be less mad, at least, and less likely to vote against them as a result. and maybe focused on the things that biden hopes to bring to the region and make things better for the palestinians. they're not on that timetable. israelis and bibi netanyahu are not cooperating in that regard. that's why you heard the president in monday, i was with him in new york say, at an ice cream shop of all places, that he thought a cease-fire was in the works, because he wants to believe it. it may not be true, but maybe it is. if it is, maybe they can get past this moment and begin to shift away from the anger these voters feel. but for the moment, that's the biggest thing. >> and it's actually in israel's best interest that they get to that point. alexi, the reason why, we were talking about it last hour, this is not just about arab israeli voters in michigan. if they're looking on american politics with contempt saying, they're going to sacrifice our security for a couple of votes in michigan, no. this is about the fact that the cause of israel is losing a generation. >> right. >> it's not an overstatement. you look at the numbers and you look at how younger americans in a shocking way have turned away from israel and are very aggressively supporting the palestinian cause and supporting some pretty extreme positions. >> i mean, i've watched in realtime, my younger sister is out in seattle, she's 27, and you know, has got a bunch of liberal friends out there. and literally i watched over time, from the beginning of the war, on their instagram stories and other social media, it was in the beginning, sort of just more informative, what's going on. very quickly changed to being pro-palestinian, look at what's happening, this is a genocide, can you believe that we're supporting this, you cannot vote for anyone who uses our taxpayer dollars to support something like this. and it's continuing through this day. and that is what is so shocking to me, is how many young people are posting about these causes and about genocide and foreign policy, day in and day out, interspersed with other things, right, that they're interested in, like "love is blind" on netflix or some other meme. but they're literally still talking about this. the more fascinating thing to me is when you look at biden's tiktoks or the instagram posts that they're doing with influencers and they're like, oh, my gosh, 250 million people saw this post. look at the comments. they're young people being like, hey, what about these two palestinian journalists who were killed? do you have anything to say about that. or what about what's going on in rafah? do you have something to say about this? they're not only holding these folks accountable, they're educating other young people who are going to the comments who might not know and being like, oh, wait a second, let me look that up. >> frank, i have been accused. throughout my political career and tv career of being a zionist. in fact, someone in israel said, if you ever needed a key to the city of tel aviv, i could get you a handful. and i would be the first to admit part of it is growing up a baptist. >> yeah. >> being a friend also means telling, you know, telling your other friend, you're damaging yourself in a way that maybe irreparable. and right now, israel is. right now, what's going on in israel is -- we've always framed this around the table as the israelis going through a post-9/11 shock, except it was worse. >> yes. >> for them in terms of numbers. the hatred for jews across the planet just unspeakably bad. right now. but that's only getting worse right now with the tactics that are being used, netanyahu's tactics that are being used. and so i'm just wondering, as someone whose family survived the holocaust, your thoughts about what's going on in israel and how to save israel, and this is my words, not yours, from all of the mistakes that benjamin netanyahu has been making since 2018 with the funding of hamas, the ignoring of the war plans to invade, the refusal- telling qatar to keep funding hamas, and now this war, the way this war is being executed. >> there are a couple of things. one is, i think there is this sense that a lot of people on the left have, it's one of the criticisms of biden, that there's this magical phone call that he could place to bibi netanyahu that will instantly end the war. and that just -- that's not plausible. he can't instantly dial this thing back. the forces that are propelling the israelis in gaza are so intertwined with genuine security risks and the threat they're engaged with a proxy war with iran that has multiple fronts, but also the trauma that you just described, and so i think the idea that the united states is kind of the secret puppet master, pulling israel's strings is just simply not true. we are an ally. >> benny gantz doesn't have any space between himself and netanyahu right now. >> that's actually -- that's the other important point, which is that within israeli politics, you don't see a counterfaction to kind of the netanyahu coalition. and so there's -- you know, nobody has stepped up to be that brave leader to say, all right, joe biden is actually presenting you with a rather historic opportunity, that the -- it's kind of an incredible thing that after october 7th, after all of this carnage, that the arab state still wants to normalize relations with the israelis. that's a -- >> and as we said last hour, this is very important, too. i know understand this, that when you talk to arab states in the region that want to go in and help, they -- they're critical of israel, but they're even more cynical about the palestinians. >> right. and they're telling u.s. leaders, oh, you want us to help again. oh, you want us to help the palestinians again? oh, okay. well, what thief do we give the money to this time? america? what corrupt leader do we -- and so you actually -- it's so fascinating, you have the saudis, the emirate ties, the jordanians, all of our allies in the region saying, we will help. >> yes. >> but you'll have to clean out the palestinian authority on the west bank. especially if you want them running gaza. this is -- talk about a political minefield. if it were just israel, that would be easier. but it's not. >> you always said to the palestinians, they never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity. for the israelis, this is actually an opportunity. if you have the gulf states saying that they're willing to finance the reconstruction of gaza, if there's this opportunity to realign the politics -- the geostrategic politics of the middle east for decades, that's an opportunity. >> but he can't pick up the phone and say to bibi netanyahu, we want this war to be over now, please do not go into rafah. he's said that and bibi has said, we're going into rafah. but all of those people on tick tok and instagram, we're not even putting conditions on our arms. there are things that the u.s. could be doing. they could be voting for a cease-fire. that's why i'm hearing from younger americans, why is this being done in our name with our taxpayer dollars? the polls even actually before october the 7th showed a shift amongst younger americans in terms of their support, more for palestinians than israelis. the trend was there. and i would imagine if you're sitting in tel aviv right now, this is a scary thing to say, the democratic shift in the united states where the u.s. is moving away from an automatic support of israel. and you get those younger people into positions of power, what are they going to do about it? what are they going to do about it? >> are they seeing it? are they so focused on what they're seeing in front of them, do they understand, they're losing a generation they may not get back. >> that's a cost at this point that they know that i think that they're paying and one maybe that they have calculated that is worth paying. in order to reestablish deterrence. because that way, the next time someone thinks about doing something against israel, they'll think twice. >> but it's not a political strategy. >> no, it's a, you mess with us, we mess with you ten times worse. >> but this is the madness of it. benjamin netanyahu knew in 2018 how hamas was getting funded secretly. he knew a year before the attacks, his people had the terrorist attack plans. they were drawn up. they ignored all the warnings. a lot of people have cynical reasons why netanyahu ignored the warnings, because he was -- he had a very signal approach to hamas. and three weeks before the attacks, he sent his person to doha, and they asked, hey, should we continue funding hamas? and he was like, yeah, yeah, continue funding hamas. so this never again, this never-again approach is so hypocritical, when he was the one that put them in a position to do that on october 7th. >> there are many reasons why the war is continuing, but one of them is to avoid that reckoning. to avoid that moment or at least postpone that moment when he will have to answer for his decisions and his of choice of how to handle things prior to october 7th. his interest is keeping the war going, for political reasons, among in other reasons, presumably. it's these conflicting timetables right now that are at odds. and maybe katty is right. there are plenty of things the president could do. richard talked about it on the previous hour, if you wanted to, and he has drawn a line, beyond which he doesn't plan to go. he has made that very clear to them. and because of that, not just netanyahu, but benny gantz and the rest have said, sorry, we'll only listen to you so much. >> also, there are the generational tides that you see shifting that are reflected in all of these poll numbers owe to the fact that younger people only know one israeli prime minister, largely, and that's benjamin netanyahu, and they know his policies of settlement expansion and all the failures that you're describing. and they've seen him intervene in american politics repeatedly on behalf of donald trump and israel used to be a bipartisan issue. there were democratic congressmen who had the keys to tel aviv, and now, they made this -- netanyahu accentuated a bet that the israeli political segment made betting on the republican party, on evangelical voters. and when you intervene in american politics, in the way that he had repeatedly, in the obama administration, during the trump election, there is a price that israel ultimately pays for that. >> there is. and the damage that he's inflicted on israel. the cost is going to be paid for a generation. still ahead on "morning joe," we'll be talking to alexi about a new piece in "the washington post" on whether it's a good idea for president biden to square up in a debate against donald trump. plus, democratic senator joe manchin of west virginia will join the conversation, we'll ask him about the latest primary results of michigan, the crisis at the southern border, and much more. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. lowering bad cholesterol can be hard, even with a statin. diets and exercise add to the struggle. today, it's possible to go from struggle to cholesterol success with leqvio. with a statin, leqvio is proven to lower bad cholesterol by 50% and keep it low with 2 doses a year. common side effects were injection site reaction, joint pain, and chest cold. ask your doctor about twice-yearly leqvio. lower. longer. leqvio® why choose a sleep number smart bed? can it keep me warm when i'm cold? wait, no, i'm always hot. sleep number does that. can i make my side softer? i like my side firmer. sleep number does that. can it help us sleep better and better? please? sleep number does that. 94 percent of smart sleepers report better sleep. and now, the queen sleep number c4 smart bed is only $1,599, save $300. shop now at sleepnumber.com biden and trump are scheduled to visit the border in texas on thursday, both of them. they will both be at the border. and if they can get two more senior citizens to go with them, they've got themselves a pickleball match. the president is going to see what can be done to solve the border crisis. trump the going to make sure he doesn't solve what's happening at the border. trump is planning to sell golden high tops on the streets of juarez. >> lots of luck. so, alexi, your new piece in "the washington post" is titled, should biden debate trump? before we dive into that, let's take a look back at some of the notable momens from their two debates in 2020. and one of them, trump was on something. >> the question is -- >> -- radical left. >> would you shut up, man. >> we have ended this segment. we'll move on to the second segment. >> that was a really productive segment, wasn't it? keep yapping, man. >> what would you like me to condemn? the proud boys -- stand back and stand by. here's the thing -- >> i asked to get the killer of the young man in the middle of the street. they shot him. >> president trump -- president trump -- >> would you close down the -- >> by the way, i would transition from the oil industry, yes. >> oh, that's a statement. >> the oil industry pollutes -- >> oh, i see. >> here's the deal. >> that's a big statement. >> if you would let me finish the statement. >> biden to respond -- >> i have never said i oppose the fracking. >> you said it on tape. >> show the tape. put it on your website. >> i'll put it on. >> put it on your website. the fact of the matter is he's flat lying. >> not since abraham lincoln has anybody done what i've done for the black commun -- now, you have done nothing, other than the crime bill -- >> oh, god. >> oh, god, is right. i'm telling you, why debate that guy? first of all, he doesn't debate anybody else. he doesn't debate republicans, he doesn't debate nikki haley, he doesn't debate anybody. what's trump going to do within say, oh, joe biden, he's afraid to debate me, when donald trump has been living in fear of debating nikki haley for months. the second thing is, the guy just lies, he makes stuff up all the time. so, you know, it doesn't make sense. anyway, alexi, in your piece, you write in part this, i re-watched the 2020 trump/biden debate moderated by chris wallace and it only confirmed to me that biden shouldn't do it again. my neck was sore from shaking my head so much. skipping a debate with trump, which to be clear, is not something the biden campaign has proposed doing, would be consistent with its selective media strategy so far. it's also true that debates serve a useful purpose. kathleen hall jamieson passionately made a case for them in a 2012 post op-ed arguing, debates and other televised presentations are conductive to honestly explaining some more complex topics. still, i'm not convinced another trump/biden debate would be worth it. when trump's on the stage, anxious voters can't expect much honest explanation about anything. they also can't expect any rational discussion of the issues that are the most important to them. >> those clips you showed now, i'm like stressed internally, from the cross-talk. i'm like, i hate conflict, i hate this. but you can barely even get a word in edgewise. i could barely understand what they were discussing. when joe biden would try to answer a question in good faith, trump would give him maybe three to five seconds and then jump in with something totally derailing it. he's more erratic than ever before, trump. the hunter biden issue, the trials, the investigations, every other word from trump would be screaming about hunter biden, the corrupt biden family. it would be a disaster for everyone and not helpful to any voters. plus, people know their characters. i think a debate between trump and biden would mostly just show their personality and character at this point, and everybody knows exactly who these two men are, so we don't need two excruciating hours of them yelling over each other. >> and peter baker, with donald trump, he has become more erratic, more radical, he has become louder over the past several years. and plays by absolutely no rules. and it seems to me, if you're going to have a debate that enlightens and informs, you have to have two people. let's go back to 2012. you have to have barack obama and mitt romney, who will at least follow basic guidelines, so people can learn about the issues and the candidates. we would not have that here with donald trump. >> part of the problem is that a debate is meant to test candidates and to show whether they have command of the issues and to force them to answer questions that are uncomfortable. so, if we don't have a debate, fine, but are there going to be other opportunities for us to do that with these two people, these two men? that's a real problem. neither one of them frankly is taking questions from hard questioners. donald trump did give an interview to kristen welker for "meet the press" and joe biden has from time to time given interviews to stephanie ruhle and others from this network, for instance, but broadly speaking, neither one of them is doing the kind of interviews and taking questions in hard way from reporters that previous generations have, and that's a real problem. >> and that matters because, i've gotten emails from readers who are like, i would love to see a trump/biden debate, because i would like to see just how much or whether each man has mentally declined since 2020. that's something else that people could potentially glean from a debate like that, but biden is older, not necessarily as sharp as he was in 2020. i think it would be a little more difficult to keep up with someone like trump this time around, who as we have said, is more erratic, more unpredictable, and views something like this as not an exchange of an ideas or a defense of his own ideas, but sort of like a backyard brawl, almost. >> willie, it would be a couple of hours of insults. and again, if you're donald trump's team, if you're donald trump, what are you going to say if joe biden is like, no, i'm not going to get down in the mud with the pigs here. i'm not going to debate -- what's he going to say when chris christie was calling donald trump a coward debate after debate after debate, for donald trump being afraid to debate chris christie. what's he going to say when nikki haley is saying, you know, challenging him to one debate after another debate after another debate, and he's afraid to debate them, too. he can't just decide after saying "no" to 16, 20, 30 detectives, oh, wait, wait, now we want to debate this one time. it doesn't work that way. >> yeah, i mean, refusing again and again in this case to debate nikki haley, thinking he's punching down in some way, he thinks he's already wrapped up the nomination, but perhaps it's more likely that she's smart, experienced, nimble, young, vital, all the things that maybe he's not and might run circles around him in a debate. and to alexi's point, john, that was -- the clips we just watched were three and a half years ago, those two men were three and a half years sharper, perhaps, than they are now. is the white house, is the biden campaign expecting debates this fall? >> both men look different today than they did in those clips from three and a half years ago. i think there's an expectation of the debate probably does not happen. first of all, trump and has turned the republicans with him, suggesting they were biased, they had rigged previous debates, remember this nonsense about the microphone? and last time around, because he got covid and there was a real suggestion that he had covid in that first debate, so therefore, the committee tried to make the second one remote, he said "no." there's a lot of bad blood there between trump. we would see if that would even happen. it might have to be under the umbrella of a different organization. that would be complicated. the biden people i talked to do think that if trump says he's going to debate and really goes through with it, and trump has said he wants to, he would probably have to. they feel like it would look as if he's ducking him. and biden and democrats facy themselves the side of good, and debates are good for an election. they're the defenders of democracy. we should have debates. and biden would be boxed in and probably have to go through with the debate if trump really wants one, but they certainly have ways out of it, as you just listed and said, this guy hasn't participated in any debates, why should we give him this opportunity? but there are people in the biden campaign think that trump will blink and it won't actually happen. >> well, i think trump could blink. you go back, and if i'm running trump's campaign, god help me, and i'm not saying this -- i'm not being facetious, i'm very concerned about a guy that goes out at night, gives a speech in front of a friendly crowd, and he can't remember who he ran against in 2016, he can't remember who he ran against in 2020, he can't remember who he's running against in 2024. he jokes the name obama out of his mouth and comes back to, because it's the only name that his brain can retain. of course, we know what happened he started -- he's like, nikki, nikki, nikki, and went on -- again, did the same sort of thing, where he sort of choked her last name out, went on to talk, and he came back to nikki haley, who he thought was speaker of the house. you know, katty, maybe they bluff, maybe the trump team bluffs. but it just takes something like that with donald trump, whether seems far more prone to making these types of mistakes. because if joe biden says "mexico" instead of egypt, he completes the thought and comes back, and he's explaining the process, and he comes back to egypt and sisi, that's something that donald trump has not been capable of doing. you go back and look at debates, 1976, gerald ford makes the blunder on poland. it may have cost him the presidency. '88, michael dukakis finished himself off for good when he had that answer about kitty dukakis, from bernie shaw. i think they're trying to protect trump a bit more, because he goes out and loses train of thought and starts saying really stupid things. so i'm not so sure you're going to have the trumpers eager to have this debate. >> one thing that you know, a debate with trump is never going to be is an honest explanation of complex topics. that's not going to happen. what is the trump campaign worried about? when i speak to them, they feel like they're in a good place in terms of they're lining up policies, they think their operation is getting better. they've got a plan for the first 100 days, which they didn't have first time around. the one thing they're worried about, donald trump. they're worried about the kinds of things that might come out of his mouth. well, if he's in a debate situation like we saw him just there, getting exercised and emotional, that is when donald trump says things like nikki haley is a birdbrain, or you know, he denigrates people, or he's rude about people, or throws out gratuitous, offensive things. that's what his campaign is worried about him doing on the stump anyway, because who does that alienate? all of those suburban voters we were talking about in the first half of the show. >> and by the way, he mangles the english language when he he's reading the teleprompter. >> he does. >> he loses his train of thought and gets lost, even when he's reading the teleprompter. >> to some extent, he's always done that and his die-hard supporters forgive him for that anyway. i think it's the gratuitous, offensive things that he says that particularly worry the campaign in terms of turning off suburban women voters. and in a high-tense debate situation, that's where he could do that. that's where biden, if he was on form and quick enough, could goad him into doing something like that. coming up, we'll have a look at some of the stories making the front pages of papers across the country, including new developments around a concerning measles outbreak in florida. take your children to be vaccinated. duh. "morning joe" right back. your brain is an amazing thing. but as you get older, it naturally begins to change, causing a lack of sharpness, or even trouble with recall. thankfully, the breakthrough in prevagen helps your brain and actually improves memory. the secret is an ingredient originally discovered... in jellyfish. in clinical trials, prevagen has been shown to improve memory. prevagen. at stores everywhere without a prescription. ultomiris is for adults with generalized myasthenia gravis who are anti-acetylcholine receptor antibody positive. it is lasting control over your gmg symptoms. and, ultomiris is the only long-acting gmg treatment with 8 weeks of freedom between infusions. ultomiris can lower your immune system's ability to fight infections, increasing your chance of serious, life-threatening meningococcal and other types of infections. if not vaccinated, you must receive meningococcal vaccines at least 2 weeks before starting ultomiris and if ultomiris is urgent, you should also receive 2 weeks of antibiotics with your vaccines. before starting ultomiris, tell your doctor about all of your medical conditions and medications. ultomiris can cause reactions such as back pain, tiredness, dizziness, limb discomfort, or bad taste. ultomiris is here. ask your doctor about managing your generalized myasthenia gravis with ultomiris. with so many choices on booking.com there are so many tina feys i could be. so i hired body doubles to help me out. splurgy tina loves a hotel near rodeo drive. oh tina! wild tina booked a farm stay to ride this horse. glenn close?! with millions of possibilities you can book whoever you want to be. that's my line! booking.com booking.yeah so this is pickleball? it's basically tennis for babies, but for adults. it should be called wiffle tennis. pickle! yeah, aw! whoo! ♪♪ these guys are intense. we got nothing to worry about. with e*trade from morgan stanley, we're ready for whatever gets served up. dude, you gotta work on your trash talk. i'd rather work on saving for retirement. or college, since you like to get schooled. that's a pretty good burn, right? got him. good game. thanks for coming to our clinic, first one's free. . a live picture of the rink outside our building. kind of a rainy wednesday morning. 7:40 a.m. time nor a look at some of the morning papers across the country. the "chicago tribune" highlighting a string of mass shootings in the city in the past few days. three separate shootings on sunday and monday left five people dead. the youngest, a 14-year-old boy. five other people also were injured. officials say there has been an uptick in crime, recently, blaming in part some unseasonably warm weather, one of many factors there, of course. "the miami herald" reports florida's surgeon general joseph la patto is receiving growing backlash amid a growing number of cases of measles. there have been at least ten confirmed cases in florida, seven tied to an outbreak at a local elementary school. the surgeon general wrote a letter to parents of that school explaining it's up to them whether they want to vaccinate their children or just keep them home from school after exposure. the cdc recommends unvaccinated children who are exposed to measles be isolated for three weeks, and of course, to get your measles vaccine. the "las vegas sun" interviewed a local computer forensic expert who just won a $5 million arbitration case against my pillow ceo mike lindell, mr. pillow. lindell held a three-day prove mike wrong challenge after the last presidential election, where he offered prize money to anyone who could disprove his claim that he had data showing voter fraud. the man submitted a report to lindell's firm, but was denied the cash prize. a federal judge concluded that the expert had sufficiently satisfied the rules of the challenge and lindell must pay up. mr. pillow's team says he plans to appeal that decision. and finally, "the atlanta journal-constitution" reports that panda fans are flocking to zoo atlanta to catch a glimpse of the only remaining giant pandas in the united states before they leave. the two pandas were loaned to the zoo from china in 1999. that loan expires later in year, and also include the return of two of their offspring. those who can't make the trek to atlanta with also view the pandas on the zoo's panda cam. katty? >> i'm trying to think of a link between pandas and first ladies, but i'm not getting there, so we're going to move straight on. >> the rarest of beauties, the death of former first lady rosalind carter last year marked the end of an era. now all living first ladies have served in the 21st century, each carving out unique portfolios and roles in their husband's white house. dr. jill biden is the first first lady to hold a full-time job outside of her white house duties, teaching english at northern virginia community college. dr. biden and her fellow first ladies are now the subject of the new book titled "american woman: the transformation of the modern first lady from hillary clinton to jill biden" and its author, "new york times" white house correspondent katie rogers joins us now. so exciting. >> thank you for having me. >> so what made you -- how did you go about the book? i'm fascinated by all of these women, and what were you looking for in terms -- for commonalities, differences, a narrative thread? how did you do it? >> i sort of started with the idea that the '90s was this sort of really transformational decade for young women in particular, who had grown up with tales of, you know, what could be possible for them, from their own mothers, the equal pay act had passed in the early '60s, roe v. wade had established a constitutional right to abortion, the '80s saw this influx of women into the working world. and the '90s really begins with the exit of the bushes and the entrance of the clintons, hillary clinton was, of course, an attorney, she was very ambitious, she was looked at as sort of a co-equal with her husband, which was actually her first mistake as first lady, because the clintons went in and she was assigned a very ambitious policy role in re-making american health care. so, really, i use her as the first bookend for a first lady who came in as an activist and an ambitious person with goals of policy making and she sort of establishes this third rail for the women who come after, which is, be an activist, be a supporter for your husband, it is not a co-equal role. >> the one that stands out for me for all of them was melania. she seemed like the one who didn't even want to be there. laura bush had a role of supporting her husband particularly in wartime. michelle obama, reluctant, but stepped up, was visible and had a role as a voice, as the first black first lady, but melania trump was not invisible, but not very visible. >> absent at times. >> yeah. >> not very there. >> it's interesting, i talked to one of her former aids, stephanie grisham for the role, she was former white house secretary and top aid to melania who said said, she would tell us all the time, this is our office, we do our own thing, and she said, we might have pushed it a little too far, but we did establish that this role is completely voluntary, which is true. you know, you're not paid. there are no actual rules. you can do as little or as much to a point, i suppose, as you want. i think, you know, melania trump did enjoy being the first lady and liked putting the first lady logo on things and traveling in her capacity as first lady. she liked a lot less the scrutiny that came with it. she was a headline obsessive, she still is. she trolls -- or trawls the internet for coverage of her and her husband, so she liked that part a lot less. but the ceremonial part, you know, she enjoyed. >> she trawls or trolls. >> trawls. >> trawls for trolls. my wife does that, too. so, what's so interesting is, and you can see it reflected in the first three first first ladies of this century is, you had people like bill clinton, let's just say, nixon, reagan, bush 41, clinton, they loved washington. they loved being here. they were of washington. they knew how to make washington work. 21st century, w. was kind of like, well, my daddy lost, maybe i want to be a two-term president. i'm simplifying this, but you know, this is a guy, he did his job, he went upstairs, washed espn. barack obama came in town, you talk to anybody who worked with obama, they'll tell you, did his job, 6:00, he went upstairs and watched espn. again, a gross oversimplification, but again, he wasn't bill clinton on the phone at midnight trying to work a deal on the subcommittee in the house, you know, civil service committee. ever. and then trump was trump. none of these people creatures of washington. it's sort of reflected in the first ladies as well, where laura, wonderful, did what she was supposed to do, but you got the sense that she would rather, you know, be talking to her friends in dallas. same thing, you know, michelle. she hated politics. she didn't even want barrack to run for state senator. and melania, let's not get started there. none of them liked politics. >> what's interesting is you actually didn't say joe biden, because i think the book actually explores him as well, but the bidens, for all of, you know, joe biden's -- >> well, they've been here for 50 years. >> they didn't interact in the sauce of washington, you know. he went home every night. she was rarely, you know, in d.c. as a senate spouse. they go home to delaware every weekend. so they are insiders, but they live this very insular, not outsider, but insular life. so she is sort of in line with that, and he is, too, in an odd, ironic way. >> in spite of them maybe not being washington creatures, i love the discourse. i think it was bill o'reilly recently who said michelle obama would be the best democratic nominee for president, out of all the first ladies, i wonder if you either picked up any hint of political ambition or after getting to know them better and their stories better, anyone you think might have been a better president than their husband? >> oh, my gosh, i don't know if i want to touch that. i know that michelle obama is a frequent fantasy and sort of a nightmare, depending on your political, you know, persuasion, but i think the main theme with all of them, as different as they are, secret fantasy or political nightmare depending on your persuasion. they all believed their husband could win and decided it was his choice and would go along. i didn't detect an interest in having that role expect for maybe the first one, hillary clinton. one of the conversations i had with her in the book was about health care, and she said she would have stepped aside. hindsight is 20/20. that was an interesting investing of her time. >> she was such an extraordinary trailblazer. you have to put her up there with eleanor roosevelt, and as a secretary of state and presidential candidate. >> i am curious about jill biden. what did you learn about her role? we didn't know her as much as michelle and laura but not melania. >> i think she's somebody like him who has been around a long time and has a lot of years to develop al manicured and polished look. i found out in reporting the book that she often has her own audience, and she is very influential. she's not somebody who has an office in the west wing, but she has advisers on senior calls every day with west wing staff. she knows everything that goes on even if she's not physically there. >> she strikes me like a nancy reagan, and neither may not like that comparison, but protective of the husband and if you get out of line, you're dead to me. >> i think nancy reagan was much more willing to go to battle with the chief of staff as she did on the front page of the "new york times" as you might remember. i don't think jill biden has any sort of desire to do that. i think she provides advice to her husband in private. i don't think she's somebody who is blazing into the oval demanding that somebody go. the biden white house has fewer turnovers. she is sort of his bs detector in a lot of ways. people tell me her judgment is un erring, and they don't like the comparison of nancy reagan, and she's very protective of him. >> i laugh when you brought up nancy reagan and the chief of staff because the nancy reagan/don regan smack down was so unbelievable. the only time i ever heard ronald reagan say anything about his beloved wife, "the washington post," she kept going after him, fire him now, and he said get off my gd back. >> she won in the ends. >> she won. she won. for good reason. >> and the lesson is don't hang up on the first lady. some of them did not get the message. >> her current chief of staff knows to keep jill biden close, and they meet regularly and knows to keep her happy. >> you will have to sign this for mika. >> i will. >> "american woman," author and "new york times" white house correspondent, katie rogers. thank you so much. >> thank you. >> greatly appreciate. whenever you can put a guess who title in your book -- >> you're doing good. >> -- you're doing really well. in a couple hours, hunter biden will be facing questions of the gop-led house committees closed door deposition about his family's business dealing, and we will preview that testimony coming up. at the top of the hour, west virginia senator, joe manchin will join us and why highway did not decide to run this election cycle. i will ask him way too many questions about his childhood friend, nick saban. we'll be right back. i'm a guy who lost a bet. and my dignity. as if watching my team lose wasn't punishment enough. hahaha. and if you have cut rate car insurance, odds are you'll be paying for that yourself. so, get allstate. the company goes to the first born audrey. the model train set is entrusted to todd. mr. marbles will receive recurring deliveries for all of his needs in perpetuity, thanks to autoship from chewy. i always loved that old man. what's it say about the summer house? 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(inner monologue) another destination wedding?? why can't they use my backyard!! with empower, we get all of our financial questions answered. so we don't have to worry. empower. what's next. the other big priority for our country, of course, is the funding of the government. we have been working in good faith every single day around the clock to get that job done. we are very optimistic. i hope the other leaders came out and told you the same. >> the meeting on ukraine was one of the most intense i've ever encountered in my many meetings in the oval office. >> i think we are getting close on the first four bills. hope that won't require another short-term cr, and hope springs eternal. >> the intensity described by schumer to get something done on ukraine aid and get it done fast. meanwhile, former president biden and trump easily won their primaries in michigan. nbc news senior white house correspondent is in detroit with the latest. >> this morning, president biden and former president trump came off with victories, but it's these voters that shook up the environment. >> if he doesn't get it together and change. >> overnight, an extremely unusual watch party, for those that were uncommitted. >> i didn't feel good about voting for joe biden. he has been pretty complicit about the genocide happening in palestinian. >> they set their goal at 10,000 votes and got ten times that. >> you think in november you might vote for former president trump? >> correct. >> a long-time democrat told me he was furious with the biden administration over the death toll in gaza. the biden campaign points out overall uncommitted only got 13% of the vote, about the same percentage in previous primaries, and still donald trump beat hillary clinton in michigan by 10,000 votes in michigan. any protest votes could be critical come november. on the republican side of the race, mr. trump has now swept the first five contests and called to thank michigan supporters overnight. >> i am so proud of the results because they are far greater than anticipated. >> nikki haley said under the former president republicans lost ground as she moves on to super tuesday states, insisting she's not dropping out. >> if states like colorado and michigan and minnesota want to start winning again, you have to have somebody on the ticket that can win a general election. >> there's nikki haley moving on to the super tuesday states, six days away. the one voter there said he would consider voting for donald trump even though he's a democrat, and here's the chair talking about the protest vote of uncommitted. >> there are enough voters who understand the difference between donald trump and joe biden, but also joe biden and kamala harris have a record to run on. the uncommitted campaign is part of the process, and one of the reasons we wanted to be the early state is give people to have the right to vote, and joe biden is listening. he started talking about a cease-fire yesterday. >> that's the chair of the michigan state democratic party saying, yes, we are raising our voices here. this is a protest. we want policy to change in terms of israel and gaza. at the end of the day, we certainly can't choose as democrats, donald trump, who has called for a muslim ban, over joe biden. >> right. early in his campaign talked about a muslim registry. it's nazi germany as a jewish registry. donald trump has talked about before a muslim registry in the united states. the democratic chairwoman said in michigan, let people express their concerns through the democratic process, and that's a positive thing, and the biden administration continues every day trying to move forward getting a permanent cease-fire. let's bring in senator joe manchin of west virginia. >> the whole gang is here. >> i guess i can call you senator. >> it's joe. >> let's talk about gaza, and so many americans traditionally supported israel, and many voters, you know voters across the country turning on israel. >> when i talk to people, i said, first of all, do you agree that hamas is a terrorists organization? do you understand the definition of a terrorists organization? usually when civilized country have a disagreement and go to war, and terrorists organizations use their people to protect their war machines. this is a horrible situation. there are women and children in the carnage, and that's the mode of operation. it's unreasonable for them, hamas, to believe that there is going to be a cease-fire until they do something and come to the table. you know, they have not wanted that two-state solution. they never came to the table to recognize a two-state solution. >> how important is a two-state solution, when you have hamas who spent since 2005 working against it, since they have been in power, killing people that talked about working with jews, and you have netanyahu fighting against the two state solution. >> if ohio declared war on west virginia, and they continued to attack us, what would you do and defend that? what would cause them to stop? you start thinking about something in your backyard, how you would settle that. if a person has a commitment they will destroy you no matter where or when, that's their determination, you are not going to sit down and have a good conversation. if you have a terrorists organization that you are trying to negotiate with a civilized society, it doesn't work unless the arab word steps forward -- they have to step forward. we can't bring them a peace, but we can negotiate it, and we can't maintain it. >> yesterday it was everybody versus mike johnson, and nobody knows what he wants except not to upset donald trump, and can you talk about the damage that mike johnson and donald trump and those opposing aid to ukraine are inflicting on not only the people of ukraine but on western democracy right now? >> we're talking a little bit before you came back on and discussing this moment in time. every elected official -- every elected official has that moment in time when you ask yourself, what is my purpose of serving? is it to protect myself to to stand tall. i have come to that conclusion, we need term limits. it's the only way we will get any type of performance. i was doing a town hall and a lovely elderly lady stood up and she said, joe, think about it, if we had term limits, maybe we get one good term out of you. i was sold. i had no comeback or defense. she was correct. and more correct today. but mike johnson, it's a moment in time and moment in history for him to make the determination, what is my purpose? why did i come here? mike, you have a chance to rise up and be a hero in the history. if they get rid of the filibuster in the senate, we will lose democracy as we know it, because it forces us to give them a piece of legislation, and in the house, we always get something hot. paul ryan and i were talking the other night. if you are going to have five or ten people that will be the tail wagging the dog, and i don't know if i would want to be the head of the dog. >> i don't know if it's the lilac tie, but you look relaxed. you and i had a conversation a while ago when you were planning what to do with your future, and you pointed to the unpopularity of the president and of donald trump and you were weighing whether or not to run on a third-party ticket. you decided not to. what made you make the decision? >> i love my country too much to vote for donald trump, and i have known joe biden for a long time and i think joe has been pushed too far to the left, and i am trying to move him back to center left. my daughter started a five 501c4. if there is anyone side, there's not a democratic republican side when it comes to defending the constitution. i came to the conclusion i never wanted to -- i will never put myself to be a spoiler or a handicap for one side or the other. i didn't feel comfortable that it was the right time where i could see a difference to try and unite the country other than being a spoiler, or being accused of throwing it one way or the other. i got to the point where i had to come to that conclusion. >> the incumbent is facing somebody who has felony counts and talks about doing away with the constitution. if you were in charge of biden's campaign, what would you tell him to do? >> take credit to what we have. we did the ira bill and wrote that bill. the ira bill was done for a couple reasons. energy security. we couldn't help our allies. we are producing more oil and gas than before and he can't speak about that because he's afraid of losing the far left. you are not going to get credit if you don't look at the whole ball of wax. we are producing more energy today and more lng to help our foreign friends go back to oil. energy is what it takes to have a secure country. if you are not energy dependant, you have serious problems. you never heard the white house talk about it, we paid down $230 billion of debt out of a $690 billion bail, 230 went towards debt. never talked about that. debt is runaway. we have to get control of the finances. in west virginia, the $35 for insulin helped tremendously. some of these drugs they are buying are 10, 15, $20,000 a year. this is tremendous. you have to look at everything. it's a homogeneous type of approach he took. the president is not getting credit. we worked with him and understood what was with the bill. but i can't get them and their climate people in washington and in the white house, they are pushing them so far left, it's hard to get him to take credit. people that just want to leave it in the ground, and they don't believe we should be producing energy. and you have donald trump saying joe biden's administration is destroying the energy in our country. we are producing more energy than him or any other administration has done. >> right. >> and we are doing it better. >> when you look at it, that's how deeply dysfunctional washington is. your thoughts about having republicans, like james langford, you know james -- >> he's the best of the best. >> he's phenomenal. one of the most conservative republicans in the senate from oklahoma. he does a bill working with democrats, the white house, everybody, toughest border security bill ever. >> best i have ever seen. >> and the house kills it. republican kills it. >> they looked for something. the perfect enemy is of good, and if you want to retire from washington and have people take you around and take care of you, just vote no. you don't have to explain not being good enough. you don't have to explain what it could have done. you have to explain what it would have done. that's what they do. the perfect is always the enemy of the good. i was doubtful that my dear friend james could get to where he could agree on something. he did a heck of a job. i talked to him about border asylum. i said this, if president biden and his administration is guilty as charged for the border that we have today, he did that in a humanitarian way thinking the world is influx coming out of a pandemic, and there's poor people being displaced around the world, let's help some. that was his reasoning that i was told. with that -- i understand that. it came a time when we got overrun. he's doing it now. well, some say it's because of the politics. no. the real crime -- i was never more disallow sund, and katty, that might have been one of the things, where i saw my friends demanding we have border secure before we give aid to anybody, and i was one of the democrats that said we have to take care of our own border, and then by the third day many could not vote for it and walked away. i was never more dissolutioned and decided we couldn't fix anything in washington. for donald trump to say i don't think we should fix it now because it's good for my campaign, and that's worse than not trying to be humanitarian. there's blame all around. we are the only country that can really crew up royally and come back and fix it because we have the people and the rule of law and the judiciary system we have and good people that want to do the right thing. the country is not divided as washington wants you to think. many want you to pick a side and say the other is the enemy. >> we have to go. quickly, the final question, is brother saban going to save college football? >> i said, buddy, now is your time and you are free. he said, joe, i have a golf game pretty quickly here. anyway, we have a good talk. charlie baker, ncaa, i think those two are working together and it will be a wonderful opportunity, speaking truth to power. >> he can save it. >> he can. >> senator joe manchin of west virginia, good to see you. >> always good to be here. we will look at some of the key takeaways from michigan's primary. plus, putting the pressure on mike johnson ahead of a possible government shutdown. we will tack a look at what happened during yesterday's meeting. you are watching "morning joe." we will be right back. were you worried the wedding would be too much? nahhhh... (inner monologue) another destination wedding?? we just got back from her sister's in napa. who gets married in napa? my daughter. who gets married someplace more expensive? my other daughter. cancun! jamaica!! why can't they use my backyard!! with empower, we get all of our financial questions answered. so we don't have to worry. can we get out of here? i thought you'd never ask. join 18 million americans and take control of your financial future with a real time dashboard and real life conversations. empower. what's next. when i was your age, we never had anything like this. with a real time dashboard and real life conversations. what? wifi? wifi that works all over the house, even the basement. the basement. so i can finally throw that party... and invite shannon barnes. dream do come true. xfinity gives you reliable wifi with wall-to-wall coverage on all your devices, even when everyone is online. maybe we'll even get married one day. i wonder what i will be doing? probably still living here with mom and dad. fast reliable speeds right where you need them. that's wall-to-wall wifi on the xfinity 10g network. let's go to the big board. steve kornacki is breaking down the numbers. let's start in the republican party. what did you see last night? >> overall here, there are a few votes to come in in michigan. these numbers might change a little bit. donald trump at 68%. haley down at 26.5%. there's a couple things noteworthy. one, obviously, you had the number in new hampshire, and then in south carolina she made 40% in the republican primary broke for her, and that calls into the mid-20s last night. why did it fall in the mid-20s after being around 40 in the first two contests? well, trump's opposition in the republican primaries so far has been clear demographically, and that's to say that white voters with at least a four-your college degree have been the most trump-resistance and most willing to go and vote for nikki haley. add in white voters with college degrees who live in suburbs and affluent areas, that's where haley has driven up her biggest numbers. take it to michigan last night, where are those areas on the map? i will show you a big one right here. this is oakland county. by itself is like 15% of the vote statewide in the primary. donald trump here by nearly 30 points over nikki haley. this is the two major northern suburbs of detroit, oakland and mccomb county. mccomb is the classic blue-collar, built by the uwa and autoworkers, and oakland county is the big white-collar suburb whose significant growth is getting the exact kind of place to bring her up to 40, and she didn't do this last night. she fell to just 33%. more striking for haley. you look at the university of michigan, eastern michigan university, all of these things that i am talking about that are her demographic wheelhouses, but right here she got 44.7, and that's a point and a half what she got in new hampshire statewide. you can see the slippage here for haley. another thing to keep in mind is significant to interpreting the primary results in the republican side are the rules so far in the three primaries where trump and gone one-on-one, and i think there's a lot of suggestive evidence in the results so far that that has been a significant part of haley's support in these states. it can come, and a lot of it may be coming from nonrepublicans that didn't vote for trump in 2020 or 2016, and have no plans to vote for trump in 2024, and i think there's a lot of reason to suspect they are come into the republican primaries for the chance to vote against donald trump. in terms of what that means for november, i don't know. i did think it was significant last night that haley fell from the low 40s to the mid-20s. if what i was just describing is or has been a phenomenon so far, it's cooling a bit as we get away from the contests, where we are getting into the ones where you go you are in for a day and campaign and go to the next state and have multiple state primaries, is that fading? in michigan, no party registration. anybody could vote in the primary, and it's the same rule in south carolina but a different result. >> we will be right back, steve, for the democratic results. sam, again, we have been saying all along this election is going to be won not across the fruited planes -- plains of america, but in detroit, atlanta and milwaukee. here, detroit, again, i don't know, people that run for office and are three-time incumbents, basically, maybe they are happy losing 45% of their own party's vote in one county in the suburbs, and 33% in another, but i would tell you, i would be hiding under the sheets if i were a politician and those were the results the next day in the area i have to win to win michigan and win the presidency. >> right. >> these are flashing red lights for donald trump. his people can whistle past the graveyard all they want and insult nikki haley all they want, and donald trump is going to talk about how badly he's going to beat barack obama in the fall all he wants, and these are not good numbers. >> barack obama. yeah, there are warning signs for obvious reasons. donald trump, he's dependent on one thing really right now, which is joe biden not being able to turn out the vote. donald trump clearly has a ceiling. he's not trying to be nice to nikki haley, and it's not a campaign trying to expand the tent. it's a campaign that is what it is, it's donald trump. his path to the general election really depends on biden's coalition fracturing and falling apart and it's a race to the bottom there. it will be in the suburbs, if that's the case. that's where the election will come down to, because, frankly, that's the main competition between the two. donald trump for two cycles now lost the suburbs over and over again, and republicans, too. what are they doing about it? frankly i have not seen much from the republican party trying to fix this. the response to the ivf ruling, for example, shows they know they have a problem. the question is what will they do about it? i don't know what they will do about it legislatively or politically, because the course correction will not come from trump. >> if i am want to go unite a party and i think in the end who will win, i would think, nikki haley, wow, give her a hand, she's an incredible candidate and, man, i will want her to be part of my administration, and what i am doing here is -- >> yes, of course. >> that's what they have done for thousands of years. >> it's called expanding the coalition, yes. >> it's called winning, right? he can't do it. no, he's not being nice or magnanimous. let's stay, by the way, on the powder blue side, the spring side -- >> the stylish side. >> yeah, let's stay there. i want us to stop for a minute, because since donald trump came on the scene in june of 2015, you have a republican doing something no other republican has done. give nikki haley her due, i guess, she should have done this or that, but nikki haley is taking the incoming from donald trump, and she's going state by state by state. this is something rubio was too much of a coward to do, and rand paul was too much of a coward to do, and we can take it all the way through 2024. nikki haley is saying i will keep going harder and we will see what happens. donald trump has not had to deal with that in his political career? >> he's not taking it well. she is tough, tougher than the men has been so far. she has money to go for some time, at least. doesn't look good for her this year, but she's looking forward to 2028. donald trump, he's not being nice, and the things he has said, about her husband and her marriage, and it's a new low for donald trump. coming back, we will check in with steve kornacki about the democratic votes in michigan, and those that casts a ballot of uncommitted. 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uncommitted beat donald trump last night by 56-41% total, 15 point victory for uncommitted. what that translates into countywide, not much. that's dearborn with the large arab american population, and then next door, the university of michigan, eastern michigan university, college faculty and all the factors we are talking about here, uncommitted landed at 17%. when we get to the delegate -- you just have to hit 15% of the vote statewide or within a congressional district in a state. because that uncommitted vote, the strongest uncommitted vote is concentrated in a relatively small geographic area, and i showed you it's part of wayne county and washana county based district, and it looks like uncommitted will pick up a delegate there. dearborn itself is where rashida tlaib represents in congress. based on the dearborn showing a delegate there. not allocated there but seems like a distinct possibility, and in the 13th district, a significant arab and muslim american population, and that 13% threshold could be cleared. we could be in a situation where uncommitted does walk away with three delegates to the democratic national convention. and that's a drop in the ocean, but the big question, the big question the uncommitted folks want people asking, go back to 2020, it was a 150,000 margin, and they want them to say that could make all the difference so you better get good with those voters. >> yeah, and moving on to minnesota on super tuesday, and other places that could continue to do that. steve kornacki, thanks as always. message received, jonathan lemire, by the biden situation last night? >> they knew it was coming. the warning signs are more significant for donald trump. what happened last night also caught the biden team's attention. one note, the uncommitted movement set a threshold of 10,000 votes, and that was smart because they easily eclipsed that. the last time a democratic president ran for re-election, and that was barack obama in 2012. it's a similar number here. the biden re-election team know they have an issue there. if there's a cease-fire in place, if the conflict has stopped, they know some of the voters, this was deeply personal and they are deeply angry, and they will not come back and stay home or find a third party candidate. they won't vote for trump and it won't be votes biden needs. it's a must-win for him in november. >> joe, a couple days ago, as we discussed a few days ago, president biden was eating ice cream suggesting a cease-fire was imminent and yesterday the israelis and hamas pouring cold water on that optimism. >> by the way, did you go back, willie and look at the black and white footage of fdr giving a speech, and the chocolate cone gets cost, but he's doing it. this has happened before. >> yes. >> it happens. david, it's not just this war and what is happening in gaza, it's not just impacting arab americans, and it's impacting disproportionately younger americans, and you see numbers breaking dramatically. if you look at young men who were becoming more republican for a lot of social reasons we can explain in the coming months, that's one thing, but even young women who should be breaking hard given what has happened with roe and dobbs and then dobbs. not happening yet. a long way to go. this does present a two-front challenge for biden. >> i thought the michigan primary showed what each candidate's biggest problem is. for trump it's this hard group of never-trumpers, and those vote for haley, it's not enough but they are there. and for biden, it's young voters that don't like his views on the gaza war, who just tune him out and think he's too old. for each of them, michigan highlighted the theme we will see now rolling through the campaign. my own feeling is that biden did better on the uncommitted problem, not withstanding the dearborn results, and sometimes we talk to young democrats and you think, wow, they are just so angry. nobody is going to turn out there. that's not the case. you can see, joe, why the white house is so focused on -- i want to say almost desperate to get this hostage deal in the gaza war and a cease-fire at a moment where you can begin to de-escalate, because they know it's building in the democratic party and the world, this war can't go on, and the united states is aiding israel in what a lot of the world sees as unjust. and president biden is saying, it's coming next week. you can't get an israeli agreeing with that, and you had the president expressing enthusiasm. if they get that they will be able to diffuse that issue successfully. we will see the de-escalation they want. coming up, we will get the latest from capitol hill as top lawmakers met at the white house yesterday to discuss the looming shutdown for aid to ukraine and israel. israel hi, my name is damion clark. if you have both medicare and medicaid, i have some really encouraging news that you'll definitely want to hear. depending on the plans available in your area, you may be eligible to get extra benefits with a humana medicare advantage dual-eligible special needs plan. all of these plans include a healthy options allowance, a monthly allowance to help pay for eligible groceries, utilities, rent, and over-the-counter items. the healthy options allowance is loaded onto a prepaid card each month. and whatever you don't spend, carries over from each month. other benefits on these plans include free rides to and from your medical appointments. and our large networks of doctors, hospitals and pharmacies. so, call the number on your screen now and ask about a humana medicare advantage dual-eligible special needs plan. humana. a more human way to healthcare. were you worried the wedding would be too much? 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it was kind of embarrassing. reports from inside that he just was overmatched. and alone. >> yeah, take up the spending bill, we're not doing a shutdown. and by the way, we gave you the best possible immigration deal that you are ever going to get. and i also like that you too are having questions shouted at you at the baskin-robbins like the president. speaker johnson was yesterday outside the meeting joe is talking about. that was about government funding and the senate passed foreign aid package. so first of all, i think that if we take the shutdown friday at midnight looking a little better today, seems to be some pressure to get something short term passed, but also the larger questionses of as we say voters are a really smart and when you say we've got to do something on the border, they know that there was something done on the border in a bipartisan fashion two weeks ago, so you can't complain there is nothing being done. >> i'm also struck there by the footage. president biden really has the fire roaring in the oval office. it was pretty mild in d.c. today and yet he's trying to sweat out the republicans, i guess. tremendous visual there. good news and bad news in terms of outcomes for that meeting. there seems to be an agreement about the government shutdown, everyone wants to avoid that even speaker johnson saying that. there are members of the far right who would rather turn the lights off, make a political point. seems like johnson at least would be willing do a continuing resolution to kick it even just a couple weeks to avoid clearing this super tuesday, clearing the state of the union. and then address it again. but for now there is still the march 1 deadline. but joe, senator schumer came out afterwards, spoke to reporters outside the west wing and said it was one of the most intense discussions he's ever been a part of. and it was. four or five on one. the president, vice president, schumer and yes, mcconnell. who has kind of been quiet lately on ukraine. he wasn't yesterday. he was forceful. and they all ganged up on johnson and said it has to get done. but johnson not committing to do it. and voters probably can see through his bluff the on the border. >> when mitch mcconnell is leaning in on the house republican speaker, it is not just mcconnell. it is john thune, the leadership. >> this is a republican party. >> as well as republicans in the house that are running the committees. >> against a very small portion of the far right. we know who they are. and so what is amazing, when johnson came out trying to put on a brave front. we're told that he really -- they really came down on him and what is interesting to me, after the other leaders had left, biden pulled them aside and spoke and i'd very much like to know what he said to him, but i'm sure it was look, man, do you want to give this to putin. >> and sam, what did he say? >> wish i was there. probably said hey, man, what do you think of the fire i felt built. it was about ukraine. and everyone knows what is going on here. mike johnson is the stopgap for not just the ukraine bill, but national security supplemental includes funding for israel too in taiwan. and johnson's position is, frankly, very hard to defend because he did not take up that border bill that he is now asking for in terms of these executive actions. the question really is what is the sort of off-ramp for johnson. as much pressure as is being applied in the private meetings, including by mcconnell, there is not an off-ramp. if he does bring it up to the floor, he will lose his -- >> discharge potential. >> that is the workaround of johnson. if he were to bring up the national security supplemental, obviously he would be risking his speakership. there hasn't really been a movement to try to find a sort of compromise consensus that they could rally around. there has been talk about a more limited funding bill. but it looks like they will keep kicking it down the road. this could just be our future. >> until election day. >> basically. coming upper huner biden is expected to appear for a closed door deposition as republicans push ahead with their impeachment inquiry of president biden. we'll be joined by congressman dan goldman and jared moskowitz when "morning joe" comes back. i when "morning joe" comes back. 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right wing of the republican party are very sympathetic to vladimir putin. i mean, i've been with trump and putin. trump is in awe of putin. when you see trump with putin, as i have on a few occasions, he is like the 12-year-old boy that goes to high school and meets the captain of the football team. my hero. it is really creepy. it is really creepy. >> that is former australian prime minister malcolm turnbull weighing in on the relationship between former president trump and president vladimir putin. and willie, jonathan lemire got an up close and personal view of that really creepy relationship, i think russian thugs man handled him and through him out of the room after that, but yeah, up close and personal where again donald trump said he trusted vladimir putin more than he trusted his own intelligence chiefs that he had appointed. >> yeah, a moment in helsinki that no one will ever forget. and so fascinating to hear another world leader who has been in private rooms and watched that dynamic to have him say it now out loud that the thing you think about trump and putin is true. >> and it is what we and you saul on display, trump and putin met and even the body language was so obvious who was in charge of that particular setting. and trump seemed so eager to please whatever vladimir putin wanted. and we know of course it happened behind the kreens and even with policy. and again, we are at a moment now where the russian questions continue to dog trump as well they should. his praise of putin heading into this year's election, now we know that the informant at the heart of the republican house committee efforts to impeach joe biden may have been a russian asset. so these questions still persist. if nothing else, trump and his colleagues, useful idiots for moscow. >> and we know donald trump freedoms of the kind of power vladimir putin has which is power of without restraints of say a constitution, a congress, a media that holds him in check. and now he's said some of these things out loud this time around in a way he wasn't quite so explicit about last time. >> and it doesn't make sense. none of it has made sense from the very beginning. you can have people writing op-eds on the trump right talking about no russian hoax, no russian connection, no russian this, no russian that. they will have go a long way to explain his bizarre behavior over the years starting on our show when he said yeah, putin may kill people, but we kill a lot of people too in the united states. at least putin is a strong leader. you fast forward to the invasion and donald trump is saying that vladimir putin's brilliant with his invasion. then saying that he would end the war in ukraine in a day. doesn't take a lot of imagination to figure out how that would look. and he talked about munich 1938. and now of course if you look now, right now the ukrainian troops are being killed. they are dying. they are on their back heel. russian invaders are pushing them forward. why? because donald trump told mike johnson don't help the ukrainians. by omission help vladimir putin. and mike johnson speaker of the house said okay. >> there used to be guardrails in the cold war that we would ask ourselves, you'd say can stalin kill people if he wants to. of course he could. and can khrushchev still kill people? i don't know. but here is a guy that navalny, i thought that would stop a lot of people and say i don't want to fight on behalf of ukraine, but i don't care about the general politics of the eastern european countries and people in the near perimeter of russia. but he's killing people. i would think that would make people the most pro dump person in the world say wait a minute, we're not on that guy's side, he's a killer. but they haven't. nothing seems to work in the old guardrails where people say to a point, you know, you can be with somebody and you say let try to -- i thought hillary for a while would deal with putin in a different way. but you just have to recognize the guy is a killer. >> they are politically board. they are morally on board. and it is so shameful that you actually have republicans, newt gingrich for one, saying that donald trump is navalny. here you have navalny dying in a russian gulag and in the most awful way and you have donald trump flying around in a 757, in his country club in south florida, and again getting in trouble for raping a woman? doesn't sound like navalny behavior. for stealing nuclear secrets, for lying to the fbi, lying to the justice department with about whether he still had the documents. doesn't sound like navalny, but yet they shamelessly draw a line between navalny and donald trump. it is -- i've used the word before over the last week or two. it is so grotesque and they do it completely without shame. >> and you've mentioned this article before, but i would recommend people read gerard baker's op-ed in the "wall street journal" in which he points out the differences between the united states and russia and tries to debunk this idea of the fascination with russia or that tucker carlson line that america is worse country than russia. and of course we're all saying absurd there, is no comparison, he is no navalny, but somewhere i some states there will be voters who will decide maybe he is, maybe he is persecuted. you know, it is very unfair, 91 counts. he can't possibly have committed those things to go wrong for 91 things, so it must be a witch hunt. you repeat it enough with enough shamelessness and some people will buy it. >> it is what mussolini did. you had so many people talking about how fascists are very good at propaganda and they just are. george orwell wrote an essay about it. it is hard to differentiate really, eugene, what one fascist group or another, their uses of propaganda. it is just lie, lie, lie, lie. hopefully if they are lucky, they have a network that will repeat the lies every day, people will watch the lies every day. maybe they can have two networks or three get works that repeat the lies every day. and pretty soon at the end of the day, all they do is go around parroting the lies that they are told day in and day out. >> for donald trump, he has laid this groundwork for years and years, the idea that he is a victim. if this billionaire from new york is a victim -- >> have you ever seen a guy playing a strong man who was such a snowflake? >> doesn't match up as well. but that is a big part of donald trump's brand. and for him, he has also told a lot by people that you are also a victim, this country is coming after you. so everything that he does when he connects himself to navalny that all of us find ridiculous, there are people who say for years he's been saying he's a victim, i'm also a victim, so that makes sense to me. that is a huge country that this thing has yet to grapple with and democrats have to pay attention to. because at the center of it, it is not just about russia versus america, it is about a large swathe of republican voters feeling like they are victims to some kind of conspiracy in washington, d.c. and new york. >> and if there is not a conspiracy happening, they make them up. they go to chinese religious cults websites and they repeat them over and over and eefr again. >> i saw the people up in new hampshire, poorest white people in the world, rags on their books, look like east germans coming out of east berlin back in the '80s. they were waiting for trump for two hours and they believe everything he says. and they had this notion that the family, the flag, the country, this really primitive notion of what they care about. religion, everything. he is tying into that. he's saying i'm your savior, i'm taking the bullet for you. >> used to be faith, country and family. trump has perverted all of that. and i know because i grew up in southern baptist church. and some evangelicals love him. but even the term has stopped meaning going to church. it has become a social identifier. where i support authoritarian fors of government. i support using anti-democratic approaches to get what i want. it has nothing to do -- >> christian nationalism, is that what that is? >> yes. christian nationalism is you pick three or four issues and maybe it is trans reading library books, maybe it is guns. it is guns which is the most bizarre thing, it is guns, it is abortion, it is lgbtqs it is immigration. which let me tell you, i mean, that sure lines up like hating all immigrants. sure lines up with what ronald reagan or jesus said when he was talking about the good samaritan. none of this makes sense. >> just what they parrot back to you. >> none of this lines up with anything jesus said in the sermon on the mount, beatitudes. none of about so, yeah, you can't say god and country if you think donald trump is god's second son and if your definition of country is anti-democratic pro authoritarian country. again, it is bizarre and twisted and donald trump has brought us here. let's talk about the election last night in michigan, there were some undecideds. i know there is supposed to be fear and loathing and people jumping out of windows and talking about how bad it is for joe biden, fact is it is about the same for barack obama in 2012. >> and detroit news did a good graphic this morning that shows how people -- how this is relatively commonly used in detroit in 2008 -- michigan in 2008, 40% voted uncommitted. this was a clinton/obama race. it is the way people expressed -- they are expressing concern. i think what is good news is this was a dry run for the get out the vote operation, you know, whitmer runs a great -- that woman knows how to win michigan. they turned out a lot of voters yesterday for basically uncontested contest. more than 600,000 voting for him. so everybody knows they have a problem, but a good dry run and they can be ready for november. >> and it is a real problem. we're not discounting that problem at all. joe biden and the administration has to get it right with arab-americans, a lot of palestinian voters that are in tlaib's difficult. and for people getting upset, they are americans. this is a democracy. i would suspect if we were palestinians living in that district, living in dearborn, we would cast a similar vote. it is sending a message. and how great that the message can be sent at the end of february instead of the beginning of november. >> yeah, that is exactly what it was. a message and a strong one. you look at 100,000 votes last night from the uncommitted. we'll go back to the sound bite we played earlier from the democratic party saying we're sending a message with this vote that the biden administration needs to exert more pressure on israel, that they need to stop the humanitarian crisis and that is what it is inside of gaza. but the idea that any of us or most of us would ever vote for donald trump who called for a uz in him ban and muslim registry is preposterous. do better on this issue of the israeli gazan war and we'll come home. >> and this is a long tradition in michigan of the uncommitted voices. we've been talking all morning about the comparison with the last democratic president running for election, barack obama, he had 11% uncommitted. biden was 13%. 20,000 voted uncommitted in 2012. over 100,000 this time around for president biden. and we do anticipate november election between biden and trump in michigan to be rzor thin. there is reason to believe that some votes will come home especially if the war this gaza does fade from the headlines. that might be enough to look at the choices an go we certainly can't vote for president trump, so let's vote for president biden. governor whitmer acknowledged that for some in the arab-american community, this issue is so personal that even she anticipated in november they won't want to cast their ballot for joe biden. they won't vote for trump, but they might choose to stay home. so this is something the re-election team will have deal with. >> and they obviously need to be concerned about it, they also need to service these voters and stay in front of these voters between now and then. again, it is eight, nine months, a long time in politics. a lifetime in politics. we'll see what happens there. eugene, the biden white house also needs to be concerned about young voters. we talked about it in previous hours that, yes, in this part of michigan, it matters to arab-americans. across america young voters are breaking dramatically against israel and what israel is doing. again, a generational shift that will haunt israel i think for decades to come if they don't get right with figuring out a better way to execute the war. but that is also in the short term a real concern for biden. >> and it should continue to be because one of the things when you say i didn't think voters, you are also talking about the kind of most diverse coalition of voters. black and brown voters. these are all voters who should be running to democrats in a general election. when you talk to them, when you talk about israel and gaza, they don't see it as this very complicated issue. they look at what has happened to people that look like them and they see another side that has more power, has stronger friends in the united states. and they don't hear when you say, well, the president is doing the work behind the scenes and that is the way this white house operates, they don't care. they want to see it publicly because to them, they have grown up in a world where everything has to happen in front of your eyes or it didn't happen. and because president biden has -- you know, when he was eating that ice cream saying i've talked about a ceasefire, but he's not called for one publicly. and it is not just a ceasefire in israel and gaza. it is student loans despite the fact that the administration has continued to forgive student loan after student loan. it is climate change, gun safety, voting rights. all of thief of these things that whether it be the white house or more importantly the courts or congress that have stopped the white house from doing work on this, president biden is given the blame from young voters. and vice president harris went on a college tour and talked to young voters. i assume she will do that again. but they will have to figure out a way and quickly how to make sure that these voters understand that giving them four years will give them access to all of the things that they really want. >> and i'll go back to what israel needs to understand as well. that what is being chanted on college campuses aren't subtleties. you know, israel is the occupier, israel committing genocide, from the river to the sea, a lot of deeply deeply offensive chants for jewish students. needs to be very concerning for israeli politicians and leaders because they are losing. they have lost. >> president biden has said that. >> a lot of young americans. so this is not about what is best for president biden if you are an israeli, it is about what is best for israel because the united states has been the guarantor of israel's safety and security since 1948. the times they are a changing and israel better understand that. and i think that they need to work more hand-in-hand with joe biden or else they will wake up next year and chris matthews, things will be bleak. >> well, it is like 1968. battle over israel will take place in the democratic party. it won't take place in the republican party. they will stick with netanyahu all the way. the young people who do tend to be liberal and some on the left will identify with the oppressed people in the middle east. they will say the palestinians are like them, you look like them, they are arab people, poor people, they look at it when you go through these towns, towns look like what is going on in rafah, these places are already bad. >> and oppressed for thousands of years and women raped and grandmothers burned and babies were -- well, they are the oppressors still. i'm just saying this is the hard reality, the obstacle that israel is going to be facing with american opinion for years to come. >> and i'm looking at chicago. it means one word, chicago hell, police rioting and the whole routine of happening in 1968. it was a fight within the democratic party about the vietnam war. and that is where they like to have the fight. it doesn't take place in the republican party in milwaukee. it will all be in chicago. and all those people will get in the cars and come from all the campuses and arrive in chicago and they will raise hell. and everybody will say the democratic party is in dysfunction, there is a division. and it is. it is a real fight. >> and willie, also last night obviously the republicans had their primary in michigan. donald trump almost got to 70% i think. what was the final number there? >> 68 and change. 68.2. and nikki haley getting 26% of the vote. the spread is big there obviously at 40 points. but again, nikki haley got nearly 300,000 votes last night that donald trump de facto incumbent, guy would has been president has this huge following is still shedding nearly 30% of the vote as he moves along. so we'll see if that trend continues. let's get to washington because less than an hour from now, hunter biden will appear before the house committee investigating his father as part of their impeachment inquiry. this is after house republicans had threatened to hold him in contempt. republicans are in search of direct evidence so far that has a alluded them that the president was involved in hunter's foreign business dealings. joining us now, democratic member of the house oversight committee congressman moskowitz, he will be in the room during the deposition. thanks for being here. what do you expect to see inside that room about an hour from now? >> i'm sure there will be about 20 members in the room obviously council for republican oversight and then hunter biden will be there with his own council. so we're finally here now, the moment republicans have been trying to get to after they invited him to a public committee hearing and then took away that invitation. now we're finally at the deposition phase. this impeachment inquiry of joe biden is literally on life support. every one of their informants has proven to be a liar. two have been indicted, one of them for trying to sell -- being a chinese foreign agent and selling iranian oil. the other actually be a stooge for russian intelligence and duping my colleagues across the aisle with the 1023 form nonsense. so we'll see what happens after today. i expect my colleagues to go to the microphone and say today is the smoking gun which they have been saying for a year every time they sit down and have a deposition. but my hope is that this is the conclusion of the joe biden impeachment inquiry because there is no evidence whatsoever. hunter biden has done some things incorrect that he has to deal with, but it has nothing to do with the president of the united states. >> and the two star witnesses, i believe still a fugitive of the law, turned out to be an agent of the chinese government, selling oil in the middle east. most recent mr. smirnoff oig now under arrest. so you talk to members xhoitity on the republican side, what is their case, what are they going on now? >> they have no case. they have had no case from the beginning and now it is exposed that they have no case. if they could impeach hunter biden, they would. but they can't. so what they will do, they will prosecute hunter in the press. they will do that in my opinion until the election. but this has nothing to do with joe biden or joe biden doing anything incorrect. they don't even have the votes. even chairman comer kind of admitted that. so this is literally all about trying to hurt joe biden's poll numbers in the press, constantly talking about the mistakes of his son. but there is no link to joe biden no matter how many times they run to news max and spread the disinformation they have been given. this has nothing to do with the president. no evidence on joe biden. i expect to have eight or nine or ten hours of this trying to get hunter biden to make some sort of a mistake, but this should be the end of this nonsense. >> congressman, it might not be the end of the nonsense because republicans are also subpoenaing special counsel robert hur to talk about his investigation of the classified documents. joe biden cleared of any wrongdoing but the way the report was written raised a political question of whether president biden was up for the job. white house certainly objects to what they deal the gratuitous comments from hur. what will be the democrats' strategy heading into those hearings? >> well, if they will bring special counsel up here to talk about editorializing of his report about joe biden's age, expect democrats to come with all of the ammunition of the last eight years of things that president trump has said like his wife named mercedes, or messing up the leaders of hungary. you know, we will be prepared with all of that. so if this is a test that joe biden is too old, democrats will show all the mistakes that terrorism made like saying biden will declare world war ii which happened in the '40s. all of that stuff will come out. we're held to a different standard. when joe biden says something that is a mistake, all of a sudden, you know, it is a story for a week. when donald trump says it, it is only a story for a minute. mainly because he says it so constant. so we'll hold everybody to the same standard here. >> all right. congressman moskowitz, thank you so much. greatly appreciate it. there are so many parallels i think between harry truman and what he did from '45 through '48 and joe biden what he's done. harry truman of course building a post war structure that we lived under until donald trump and now joe biden putting really good people around him and doing the same. we're seeing nato expanding to new heights. and 800 miles of new russian border for nato. turning as the admiral says turning baltic into a nato lake. so so many things he's doing. but it is we move closer to the election, and i look at the hapless house republicans, i can't think of how truman turned things around. he started running against the do nothing republicans. the do nothing congress. and in this case really incompetent leaders this congress. >> and at the convention at midnight, about 100 degrees in philadelphia, 110 degrees at the convention hall, and he livened the place up. everybody said truman looks like he's got something here. he has the republicans on the run. of course he ran against henry wallace who had been vice president under roosevelt. and he ran against strong thurman on the right. and he had to go right down the middle. but he had real energy. this guy was ready to go. much younger man than biden. but i think people liked him. they liked the give 'em hell part, but he came through in 1948 after years of democratic rule. very tough to continue the winning streak and he could do it. i was in key west where he used to have his vacations in the winter. and they are all about him down there. you go to a store and they would say harry truman used to come by here on his walks. a great story. >> and he turned it around from we're just mild about harry to give 'em hell. because he got fired up. he took it to the republicans. as hang williams sang, set the woods on fire. may not be a bad thing for joe biden do the same thing, show some energy. show some anger. it is okay. maybe a combination of fdr and truman. we have the same threats hanging over us that fdr had hanging over him. it took someone -- not someone with a lot of physical strength at the end of his life, but someone with the wid dom and wisdom and courage and experience he had. biden seems to be doing both. he is dealing with the existential threat that trump poses, but he's also moving forward and getting a lot done the way truman did post world war ii. i think he's got to lean into what his strength is. his strength is his experience. and he is doing more events. he is -- you see him out actually with people, not in courtrooms like trump, but making the argument he is the experienced one. >> it matters. chris matthews, always great having you. coming up, a tech giant pulls the plug on its decades long secret quest to build its own electric vehicle project. we'll get the details from andrew ross sorkinsorkin. and also why a health insurer is facing scrutiny from federal regulators. here's to getting better with age. here's to beating these two every thursday. help fuel today with boost high protein, complete nutrition you need... ...without the stuff you don't. so, here's to now. boost. my name is marie. i'm 49 years old and i'm a business owner. i own a lemonade and ice cream shop in florida, so i can feel and see that my lines have gotten deeper just 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[ screaming ] get tickets! skadoosh. get tickets! can't have anybody get an easy shot. >> doncic dumps inside. washington puts it in. two seconds left. cavs have to go 94 feet. oh! do you believe this? >> come on, that is connecting on the heave from beyond half court. the go-ahead winning basket at the buzzer to lift the cavs to the win over the mavericks last night. 57 feet or something insane like that. as good a buzzer beater as you will see. how about spring training? shohei ohtani not disappointing in his debut with the dodgers. batting second, a two run home run in the left field seats. dodgers win 9-6. he had elbow surgery in september, which by my math is not very long ago. clearly he can still hit. >> and he brought his outfield glove to camp saying if you need me, i'll play the outfield. dodgers said just hit, we don't have to worry about that this year. but they have about as good a lineup as we'll ever see. it will be a great season. >> ohtani looking good despite that surgery. let's turn to business now. apple has pulled the plug on its decades long quest to build an electric vehicle. hundreds of employees who worked on the car will be shifted now to divisions working on artificial intelligence. that is according to several reports. let's bring in co-anchor of "squawk box" andrew ross sorkin. apple does everything undid avail of secrecy before pulling away the blanket. why did they stop? >> this was called project titan it. you'll have a whether they won't they, will they be in the quarter business kind of thing. there was intramural squabble probably about ten years even inside apple about whether they should be in the car business. obviously huge capital intensive business, always a question about the margins. and there was a question about whether apple could do something that was truly unique, something that was so much better than anything else you had ever seen on the market. and i think yesterday's decision to some degree really is a commentary if you will on just where evs are in the world right now, tesla is really the only one who succeeded doing this. the market for them seems to be smaller than people had anticipated, or at least slower going than people had anticipated. and i think apple had also hedged its bets. the entire time while they were trying to figure out how do auto, in some ways they were learning about things that you do see. for example maps, that was part of their efforts on the car side but also made their maps better. similarly they were working on ar. you are starting to see that now in their pro vision goggles. so there is a lot of little things that i think you are seeing. and i should say for 98% of cars now have apple car in it. so there are pieces of this that we'll still see, just won't see it as a vehicle itself. >> as you say, big indicate about maybe where ev is. doesn't mean it is not still coming, but for the moment a slowdown. front page of the business section of the journal, andrew, 30% of macy's stores will be closed. that is 150 all together. what is going on here? >> again a commentary where we are in the economy, how people buy things. whether you are doing it on your telephone, whether you are walking into the store, macy's of course one of the most iconic retailers in the world. the store in herald square, that is not going anywhere. the parade on thanksgiving, not going anywhere. but 150 stores are and there has long been an argument that macy's and frankly several other retailers may have real estate that is more valuable selling it, if you will, than actually operating it. and i think that is what this decision is all about. >> andrew, walk us through this one because it is a little complicated. involves a big health insurer. justice department opening an anti trust probe. what is the issue here? >> united health, and by the way this is probably true if you start to look across the health care sphere, over the last ten years, again, as we've had discussions about how to get rid of the middle man, where are all the embedded costs. you see a lot of mergers. and one thing united health has done done is have its own fish owing group inside it now. you see other companies buying other businesses to try to bring the middle man inside the company. some people would argue that is good, we've been told over and over again if you get rid of the middle man costs would go down and they would not be passed along to the customer. but in truth, there is a question mark about whether the costs have gone down at all. arguably they have gone up. there is some argument to say that they haven't risen as quickly as some have anticipated. but at the same time the competition, if united health is sending all the business to its own doctors and the doctors are sending all the business back to united health, that means there is not competition either and that is what the government is looking at. >> united health covers about 53 million people, so this is a big question. andrew ross sorkin, thank you as always. good to see you. coming up next, a look at the new hbo documentary god save texas. lawrence wright who wrote the book on which the series is based joins us next. what is it about hometowns and the american consciousness? stories of people coming to grips about hidden truths about the town they grew up in. well, this is one of those stories. >> i want to be a change agent. i want to document the history. >> coming home, i want to understand it better. >> what are you doing in town, brother? >> this is what it looks like. >> that is a look at the new hbo documentary trilogy god save texas. each episode follows a different filmmaker's journey through the hometown as they chronicle their city's complex history. the series looks at how residents have been impacted by the texas prison system, the oil business and the state's border laws. it is based on the book god save texas, a journey into the soul 69 lone star state. and the author of that book is joining us. and also with us, emmy willing filmmaker alex stapleton who directed the second episode which airs tonight on hbo. good morning to you both. let's start lawrence with the big picture and the book that you wrote about the state you love so much and why you think texas may need saving. >> well, the title is a prayer. i got into this because my editor at the new yorker asked me to explain texas because they couldn't understand why i live here. and honestly, i have wondered that myself. but i don't think texas is properly understood in the rest of the country. people have really strong opinions pro or con. and there is a lot of complexity that is missed. it is important to understand texas because it is growing so fast that it will be the dominant feature in american politics by 2050 when it is the size of new york and california combined. >> and it is changing demographically in such a dramatic way that the texas of 2034 will look nothing like the texas of say 2014. alex, i've always been struck by annette gordon reed, great historian's love of her home state of texas. yet her concern at the same time, sort of reminds me of the old equip about the south, i love the south, i hate the south. there is a -- texas at times makes itself difficult to love for a lot of natives. talk about that. >> yeah, i mean, i think a lot -- that is what was so great about what larry wrote and what resonated with me with his book and doing the series. i think a lot of us struggle with the good and bad of the state. that is something that is probably a part of the texan identity. within texas is a great paradox. there is a lot of things that don't make sense, there is a lot of us that vote against our interests. we live in communities where we don't quite understand some of the harmful things that are around us. and i think that there seems to be a dawn, a new age here in the state where i think that we're trying to make sense of it. and this sear is is a step towards that direction. >> and so what does the film and what does the book tell us, texas tell us, about the intersection of demographics and politics in this country is this because you've got a state in which minorities are growing very fast but it still doesn't elect democrats to statewide office. if you extrapolate from texas for the rest of the united states, is the assumption for democrats the demographics is working in democrats favor just wrong? >> yeah, you would look at what is happening in texas right now, and scratch your head, right? i mean, it is the most urban state in cities in population e in texas. it's one of the youngest states in the nation. all of those are democratic vectors that seem to have made no difference in the elections at all. it's as if wire living in an enchanted forest. somebody's going to break the spell. the elected officials don't really represent the population of texas. >> alex, your episode is airing tonight on god save texas, the price of oil. tell us about how oil has shaped texas. >> well, oil is a major industry. it's historically shaped the state. there's -- i'm from houston, and i think that you know, this is the energy capital of the country. i wanted to look deep entire that, though, and to have a conversation about how that business has impacted communities of color, specifically my family. i'm seventh generation texan, and seventh generation from the gulf coast, galveston and houston, and i think that there's a great myth about what the great -- the money that oil brings, the boom that it brings to a city like houston, and for residents that live here, communities, fence line communities across the city and in this area, it doesn't bring, you know -- it doesn't rain down cash. instead, a lot of people are ste severely impacted by the harmful environmental impact that it has on people's health, their houses, and it's a part of, you know, decaying communities. >> lawrence, talking about politics, you know, as an old politician, i never looked at the latest number. i always looked at trend lines. let me give you some trend lines here. in 2012 in the presidential race republicans won by 16 points. in 2016, republicans won texas by 9 points. in 2020, they won it by a little over 5 percentage points. this is a freight train rolling in the democrats' direction. >> yeah, and you know, the thing that people have to understand is that where texas goes, the country will follow, and texas is important in national politics now, but it's going to be decisive in the future, and those trends, republicans in texas or nationwide are terrified of, and that's one of the reasons that they've been jiggering the vote and gerrymandering and trying to hold onto power as long as they can. but ultimately, our politics are the fault of texans. there's no law, for instance, against voting in a primary, which would make a profound difference if people got out and actually expressed their wishes in the primaries. >> yeah, all right. the final two episodes of god save texas airs tonight on hbo. all three parts of the trilogy are streaming now on max. lawrence wright and alex stapleton, thank you very much. and i just have to say, you look at what's happening in texas, it's what's been happening in america for a long time. again, with the popular votes, democrats, republicans have lost seven of the last eight elections by popular vote. you look at these demographics in texas, it's becoming more urban, more diverse. that means unless something dramatically changes, that means democrats are going to start putting those 40 electoral votes in their column pretty soon. >> if you add texas, that's a wrap. democrats are going to sell over and over and over again. it is incumbent on republicans, after whatever happened in 2024, to try and figure out how to change the way they talk to and talk about people of color, young voters and speak to the kind of issues that those folks care about because, you know, 69 to 5, there's only so many other numbers before we flip over to democrats. and democrats have done a pretty good job of trying to get them there. when you talk to democrats in texas, they want more help from the national party to help flip texas faster. >> yeah. >> it's been a difficult time. it's been a difficult few years in texas for democrats after the 2020 election, but it does feel like it's a republican state legislature came in so hot, passed so many controversial bills, it does feel a little last gaspy in terms of how the republicans are almost in a panic, we can't hold on much longer. >> the more extreme positions they take, the faster they push the middle in texas in democrats. >> assuming hispanic voters don't stop voing republican. >> in overwhelming numbers. >> that's the worry for the democratic party. when i've been down in texas and spoken to hispanic voting groups, they said democrats need to show up. it's not a guarantee. they have to work at it. >> willie, unfortunately we only have 17 hours a day to do this. we are down to the final 30 seconds. what are your final thoughts? >> real quick, i'll pitch it to john last night in michigan donald trump won by almost 40 points but he did shed 300,000 michigan republicans to nikki haley who voted for her. she was only around 25%. on the democratic side, lots of consternation among some democrats about the uncommitted vote, but putting that in perspective, it's comparable to previous years, and also perhaps a warning to the white house and to the biden campaign not to over react to this group that is putting pressure on him in terms of gaza and israel. >> they do still make up a pretty small piece of the electorate. it is an important key swing state. it will be a major battleground this november. warning signs for both men last night. i think that the republicans and donald trump have more to worry about. >> that does it for us this morning. we will be right back here tomorrow morning. for now ana cabrera picks up the coverage after a quick final break. coverage after a quick final break. right now on "ana cabrera reports," the president's son on capitol hill, hunter biden

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