alarms about what his return to the white house could look like. >> you would never abuse power as retribution against anybody. >> except for day one. plus, abortion fwiet. the texas supreme court temporarily blocks a pregnant woman from an emergency abortion. >> there's no outcome here that i take home a healthy baby girl, you know. so it's hard. >> will the state force her to continue her pregnancy? and new charges. president biden's son hunter is indicted for the second time this year. nine new criminal counts including tax evasion and filing false returns. what would be the political impact. plus, under fire. the president's three elite universities facing backlash after their testimony at a congressional hearing on anti-semitism, and now the president of the university of pennsylvania has resigned. >> does calling for the genocide of jews violate penn's rules or code of conduct yes or no. >> if the speech becomes conduct, it can be harassment, yes. >> conduct committing the act of genocide? >> the answer is yes. >> my guests this morning, republican senator mitt romney of utah and democratic senator chris murphy of connecticut. joining me for insight and analysis are, nbc united states. senior white house correspondent kelly o'donnell, jonathan martin of politico, democratic polster cornell belcher and lahnee chen, fellow at the institution. welcome to sunday. it's "meet the press." >> announcer: from nbc news in washington, the longest running television show in history. this is "meet the press" with kristen welker. good sunday morning. in many ways this has felt like an inflexion point with the war between israel and hamas claiming more lives and tensions boiling over here at home about how to address hate speech, adding to the mix, with less than a week to go before lawmakers leave washington, there is still no deal on israel and ukraine aid. nbc news has learned that the white house is expecting to ramp up its outreach to capitol hill this week, but a senior administration official is making it clear the engagement will depend on having a clear framework on border negotiations to hear from, and that hasn't happened yet. earlier this week, president biden signaled he is ready to make a deal. >> i am willing to make significant compromises on the border. we need to fix the broken border system. it is broken. >> in a new "wall street journal" poll, just 27% approve of the president's handling of securing the border. 64% disapprove. nbc news has also learned a number of hispanic and latino members of congress as well as advocacy groups are becoming increasingly concerned that president biden may strike a deal with republicans on immigration that they find unacceptable in order to secure package on his ukraine and israel package. a the fear, according to one capitol hill democrat, the president will accept border policy changes proposed by republicans that are, quote, unimaginably cruel. the 2024 race for the white house and new controversial comments by former president donald trump in a fox news interview this week he was pressed several times to say categorically that he would not abuse his presidential power if elected to a second term. mr. trump declined to give a denial. >> you are promising america tonight you would never abuse power as retribution against anybody? >> except for day one. >> except for? >> except for day one. >> meaning? >> i want to close the border and i want to drill, drill, drill. >> that's not -- that's not retribution. >> no, no -- i'm going to be -- i love this guy. he says, you're not going to be a dictator, are you? no, no, no. other than day one. >> joining me now is republican senator mitt romney of utah. romney, of course, was the republican nominee for president in 2012. senator romney, welcome back to "meet the press." thank you for being here. >> happy to join you, kristen. >> a lot of headlines to get to, but let's start with that texas abortion case. the state supreme court, as you know, put a hold on a lower court's decision to allow kate cox to have what her doctors say would be a medically necessary and potentially life-saving abortion. now, her fetus has been diagnosed with a health condition, and if she carries it to term, tock tors say it could jeopardize her ability to have more children in the future, something she says she very much wants. what is your reaction, and should kate cox have the ability to terminate her pregnancy? >> i'm not going to stand in for the courts. they will evaluate the evidence, i am pro-life, but people like me that are pro-life also believe that when a woman's life is in danger the opportunity for an abortion should be apparent for her. after the supreme court overturned roe v. wade and the decision went back to the elected officials in the various states there are a lot of parameters and nuances that haven't been sorted through that. that will happen in texas and other places and ultimately we will find a settled understanding. >> and as you're indicating, did support overturning roe v. wade, but was this what you imagined when you supported roe v. wade that a woman when she's told by her doctors potentially to save her life would be denied one? >> well, i think the question here will be whether or not her life is at risk, and if it is at risk, under texas law, under texas law, she'll be allowed to have an abortion, but each state will have to make this decision. stepping back, i think you have to recognize, when you have an issue that the nation is divided on, particularly when it's a moral issue, when some people feel it's a moral wrong to have an abortion. another feels like it should be a moral right for a woman to be able to choose. in a setting like that, you don't want to have a small group like that to decide to impose their will on anybody else. there has to be a meeting in the middle. that hasn't happened yet. i hope it happens in texas and every other state and that's the way america works, and we can't have people fulling each other apart and insisting they have to get 100% of what they want and the other side gets nothing of what they want. >> texas attorney general, ken paxton who is fighting the lower court's decision is criminal prosecution for anyone who helps kate cox get an abortion including her doctors. does that go too far? do you think her doctors should be punished if the court rules this she's entitled for this abortion. >> in texas as in every other state they'll follow the law, but in many cases politicians play to their base and play to the crowd and let's not adjudicate what the parameters will be in abortion in texas and elsewhere. ultimately, this has to be settled not by one side imposing its will on anybody else, but both sides working together where each gets something, and that hasn't happened yet. >> okay. let's turn to those comments that we just played by former president donald trump. as you heard, he said he would not be a dictator except for day one. at an event in new york last night, he tried to downplay that, but what was your reaction to hearing those words, senator? do you believe him? >> you know, when i was a kid there was something called a gum ball machine. you could put a penny in and a gum ball would come out. there was no filter. put in the penny, out came a gumball. donald trump is a human gumball machine. a notion that goes in, and it comes out of his motion. there's no filter and he just says whatever. i don't attach an enormous amount of impact to the particular words that come out and try to evaluate each one of them. i do think that you can look at his record as president and particularly in the last months of his presidency and say this is a dangerous approach, it's an authoritarian approach and that gives me far more concern than him playing to the crowd as he did. >> given that you're saying that he gives these unfiltered responses, we have actually seen him do what he says he's going to do. when he said he believed the election was going to be rigged before people actually went to the polls, he went on to question the results and tried to overturn the results of the 2020 election. why don't you take him exactly at his word? >> oh, i think we agree that we have looked at his behavior and his behavior suggests that this is a person who will impose his will if he can on the judicial system, on the legislative branch and on the entire nation. when he called people to come to washington, d.c., on january 6th, that was not a random date. that was the date when peaceful transfer of power was to occur. he called that on purpose. there's no question he has authoritarian rulings and interests and notions which he will try to impose. that's dangerous for the country. it was dangerous then. life was lost. we were embarrassed around the world. i mean, this was a tragedy, and a number of things that he did in the last months of his presidency suggests what he would do if he were elected again. >> i want to drill down on you on just how dangerous as you say you perceive former president trump to be. liz cheney put this into dire terms this week. she told my colleague savannah guthrie, quote, there's no question trump would refuse to leave office if she's reelected. she went on to say a vote for him may mean the last election you ever get to vote in. do you with that assessment? >> i don't think donald trump would want to stay in longer than four years. the reason i say that, i think he's running for retribution, and i think he'll be finished with retribution after four years, and i don't think he particularly likes being around the white house. i think he'd rather be back at mar-a-lago and other properties of his, but he wants to show he's not a loser. he won, and he wants to go after the people who were tough on him. so i think he'll be finished after four years and go back to other occupations. given everything we've heard from president trump what do you think a second trump term would look like? >> if you look at the last few months of his presidency you would suggest that that's the kind of thing you would see. he would not have generals, people offering impulse and instead he would have people around him encouraging his impulses and perhaps adding to them and i'm afraid you would find the nation more divided. look, our nation doesn't need to be divided right now. a campaign based on anger and hate may win at the ballot box temporarily, but it tears the country apart. the other day the president -- the former president said we're at greater threat for what is within. i think that was in some respects a self-owned because what's within if he were to become elected president again is a campaign of retribution and anger and hate. that's not what america's based on. america was based on the idea of in god we trust and united we stand, divided we fall. a divided nation is not what america is intended to be. >> let's turn to hunter biden and the headlines around that. as you hoe know, he was indietsed on nine new charges this week. the second time he has been indicted by the special counsel this year alone. his lawyer said if his name was anything on other than biden, the charges would not have been brought. what's your reaction to that? >> if his name was none other than biden he wouldn't be able to bilk millions from foreign entities, so let's start there. he was trading on his father's name which is ugly and unsavory, he then didn't pay taxes on it according to the prosecutors and we'll see if he can prove that case, but if he can, he violated u.s. law and should be severely punished for having done so. >> house republicans signal they may vote as early as this week on an impeachment inquiry into president biden despite the fact that they haven't shown business dealings and president biden. have you seen any evidence that president biden has committed high crimes and misdemeanors? >> no. i haven't seen any evidence of that at all. before you begin an impeachment inquiry, you should have some inclination that there is wrongdoing, and so far there's nothing of that nature that has been provided. >> would you impose an impeachment inquiry? >> i would vote against it unless they brought something that showed high crimes and misdemeanors have been committed but that hasn't been the case. unfortunately, for most people we are not responsible for the misdeeds of my kids, grandkids and president biden's son hunter has obviously been an unsavory person and has had an extremely personal damaging foibles including a drug, and that's not president biden and we're not going to impeach someone because of the foibles of their kids. >> the senate has one week left to negotiate this aid package for israel and ukraine. republicans are holding a hard line on border security. what are the implications of not passing aid to ukraine right now, senator? >> well, i don't know specifically how quickly the money has to get to ukraine or how quickly the armament has to get to ukraine. i have to say a couple of things. it's not just republicans holding a hard line. it's democrats holding a hard line. either side can move and get the position done, and here's the position on our side and my side. we have gone from 1,000 to 2,000 illegal encounters at the border today under the three prior presidents. under bush, obama and trump. 1,000 to 2,000 a day. now we're seeing 10,000 to 12,000 a day. as pennsylvania senator john fetterman said, we're basically seeing pittsburgh show up at the border every month. we are at a rate of incursions into the country of about 4 million a year. that's larger than the population of 24 of our states and we want to solve that, to secure the border. i just saw the president of the united states say that we've got to secure the border. he's right. any effort that doesn't do that will be rejected by republicans. we want to get it back to the level that existed under the three prior presidents. >> and you're right, i know that this is a priority for republicans, and you're right, president biden said he's willing to negotiate. it was described to me, you have to get through all of the disagreement around the border to even start addressing the ukraine and israel piece of it. taking it a step back, what message do you think it sends to president putin, to president xi when they see that there are a growing number of republicans who are opposed to who they say is writing a blank check to ukraine? >> we're not going to write a blank check. what we will do is provide ukraine weapons to defend themselves against pew ten, who is a thug and a murderer. so that's what they're going to do. i think putin and xi recognize that democracy is messy and that our system is not authoritarian and we don't have a dictator. they're dictators, and they like to make a big deal of the process that we go through, but you know what? it has worked for america in the past, and it will work in the future, and we'll get through this. and don't forget, the president was the one that put the border and the board err issue as part of the package. this is not a republican issue, and he brought it to the front, and that's why we're dealing with it. >> just quickly, you were the first person to call attention to russia, what you described our number one geopolitical foe. are you comfortable with your party's position on ukraine? >> each individual makes their own posture known on a particular issue and my own view is that it is very much in america's interest to see ukraine successful and to provide the weapons that ukraine needs to defend itself. anything other than that would be a huge dereliction of our responsibility and our own national interest because if putin thinks he can invade his neighbor with impunity and that we'll step back and we're tired and we're not going to keep on helping and guess what? he's not going to stop and he'll go into a nato nation that will draw nato and our troops into war russia. this is in america's interest to make sure that ukraine puts up a great fight. >> senator romney. stay with us. we have a lot more after the break. including will senator romney endorse a candidate in the 2024 race? plus three top university presidents are under fire for their responses to a congressional hearing on anti-semitism. more with senator romney after the break. eak. first time i connected with kim, she told me that her husband had passed. and that he took care of all of the internet connected devices in the home. i told her, “i'm here to take care of you.” connecting with kim... made me reconnect with my mom. it's very important to keep loved ones close. we know that creating memories with loved ones brings so much joy to your life. a family trip to the team usa training facility. i don't know how to thank you. i'm here to thank you. welcome back. university of pennsylvania president liz magill resigned on saturday after facing intense criticism from alumni, lawmakers and the white house for dodging a question at a congressional hearing about anti-semitism on campus. in a five-hour house hearing on tuesday, magill and her counterparts at harvard and mit evaded questions about whether students should be disciplined when they call for genocide of jews. >> i am asking does specifically calling for the genocide of jews is that harassment? >> if it's pervasive, that is harassment. >> the answer is yes. >> it is a question on context, congresswoman. >> the answer is yes, that calling genocide of jews violates harvard code of conduct, correct? >> again, it depends on the context. >> it does not depend on the context. the answer is yes, and this is why you should resign. >> senator mitt romney is still here with us. senator, let me get your reaction to what we just witnessed again. the president of the university of pennsylvania has now resigned. should the other two presidents resign? >> well, i'm not going to tell them what they should do, but what they it in that hearing was absolutely repugnant. it was outrageous, incomprehensible, and it violates american munty. we're a diverse nation not to recognize that calling for the genocide of a people is awful, it's a hate crime. i mean, this was an extraordinary breach of the heads of these universities and people are saying, wait a second, if a conservative speaker would come to their campus they would be outraged and they can't come there and they're saying it's okay for people to call for genocide of the jewish people? by the way, it's not just about jews and it's about members of islam, it's about tolerance for people who are different in our country and these university presidents have to stand up for that. their failure to do so was an extraordinary failure. >> you take me to my next question, and it's about islamophobia and hate in all of its roles and does congress have a role to play of addressing hate on college campuses and should congress be more engaged on what's happening? >> not by creating law, but by creating example and recognize that the people we choose as leaders will not just write law and effectuate policy. they're also setting the character of the country. it's one of the reasons why i have such concern about president trump is he's affected the character of america. look, we are a diverse nation whether people want it to be that way or not. we are highly diverse, not just by ethnicity, but also by religion and sexual orientation, and there are a whole series and dimensions on why we are diverse, and you may not like it, but that's who we are. the only way a nation as diverse as us is able to be strong is if we recognize the divine nature of humanity. we recognize one another, they're false and we don't attack each other. tearing down other americans, retribution, revenge, anger, that is not the future of a great country. >> let's turn now to the 2024 race as you bring up former president trump. why haven't you