five news. >> that is right, you heard that correctly. one of the candidates did not even vote, so remember, we've got to believe in yourself, if you want others to follow suit. it's confidence, not narcissism. because every single voter counts, and here is the thing, it might just come back to yours. and on that note, i wish you a very good night. from all of our colleagues across the networks of nbc news, thank you for staying up late with me. i'll see you at the end of tomorrow. ow >> i want to start off tonight with cynthia playboy magazine, just an article, so did not worry, this is still a family program. in 1990, donald trump did a sit-down interview with playboy. he teased a future in american politics. there is something he said back then that we all probably should have taken a bit more seriously. it was just a year after the chinese government used a massive amount of military force to violently crackdown on pro democracy student protesters who had been occupying tiananmen square in beijing. the chinese government declared martial law, and massacred hundreds of civilians. here was donald trump's take on that incident, one year later, and the pages of playboy. when the students poured into tiananmen square, the chinese government almost blew it. then they were vicious, they were horrible, but they put it down with strength. that shows you the power of strength. our country is, right now, perceived as weak. okay, at this point, people can be forgiven for not believing a lot of things donald trump says. they don't think he actually means what comes out of his mouth. yes, this interview was in playboy, which i know some people read expressly just for the articles. still, it is hard to take playboy that seriously. now that donald trump has denied the outcome of one democratic election, and urged his supporters to commit insurrection on his behalf, and somehow remains the front runner on his party's presidential ticket, given all of that, maybe it is time to start taking trump's comments, the ones praising authoritarian regimes, and their leaders, maybe it is time to take them seriously. >> the man who looks like a piece of granite, right? he is strong like granite, he is strong, i know him very well, president xi of china, he runs 1.4 billion people with an iron hand. >> president xi, top of his game. president putin, smart, very smart people. one of the strongest leaders, viktor orban, from hungary. he's very strong man, strong, powerful man, one of the most respected leaders of the world. tough, no games, right? hungary. >> hungary is not playing games! hungary, for the record, is one of the most anti-democratic countries in the world. hungary is the city on a hill for donald trump, it is a well run country. hungary. trump has not been shy about his love for strong men or for his strongman like plans for our very own country, if he wins in 2024. he wants to stop all investigations into his wrongdoings, and he wants to open investigations into joe biden, and other political opponents using the justice department to go after his political enemies. it now appears trump is ready to clean house within the federal government itself, getting rid of as many career employees as he can, and installing an army of loyalists. mckay coppins writes in the atlantic, of conservative groups get their way, the next republican president will sign an executive order relating service civil protections for up to 50,000 federal workers, effectively making the people in these roles political appointees. the people whose names are being floated for senior positions in a potential second trump white house, they are not being shy about what they would do with that newfound power either. >> there is a couple people you could put in positions like that, you know? we talk about micah davis as attorney general. >> fire a lot of people in the executive branch, the deep state. we are going to indict joe biden and hunter biden, and james biden, and any other scramble, sleaze ball biden. >> cash. i know you are going to head the cia, but do you believe you could deliver the goods on this? in the pretty short order of a first couple months we get rolling on prosecutions. >> yes. we will go out and find the conspirators, not just in government, but in the media, yes. we're going to come after the people in the media who lied about american citizens, who helped joe biden rigged presidential elections. we're going to come after you. >> we're going to come after you. that is the sales pitch here. former republican congresswoman liz cheney, this week, is warning that america's sleepwalking into a dictatorship in the united states. in the past few days, washington post, new york times, and atlantic all published stories referencing the potential for a trump dictatorship. republicans in the senate, however, it clearly don't subscribe to any of those publications, or they don't read them. republican senator j.d. vance tweeted all of these articles calling trump a dictator are about one thing, legitimizing illegal and violent conduct as we get closer to the election. everyone needs to take a chill pill. republicans in the house have turned the alarm on its head. congressman wesley hunt claimed the left has gone full panic mode, and said that, another trump term would mean the end of dictators in america, not the beginning. that's four house republican leadership today, speaker of the house mcdonald's that he plans to vote to formalize an impeachment inquiry into president biden as soon as next week. he also clarified that, before he can release 44,000 hours of january 6th footage to the public, the speaker's team needs to do just one thing. >> as you know, we have to blur some of the faces of persons participated in the events of that day because we don't want them to be retaliated against, and charged by the doj. >> give the insurrectionist cover from the doj? so said the speaker of the house. if you are waiting for republicans in congress to stop the slide towards autocracy, do not hold your breath. the most exhaustive accounting of the exact nature of this potential autocracy is in this week's atlantic. over 24 essays athletic fathers carefully examine what is hyperbole, what is a bad joke, and what should really have us worried. together, these pieces make what atlantic editor-in-chief jeffrey goldberg calls a convincingly dispositive case that both trump and trumpism pose an existential threat to america, and to the ideas that animated. the country, he writes, survive the first trump term, they're not without sustaining serious damage. a second term, if there is one, will be much worse. joining me now, the atlantic magazine's editor-in-chief jeffrey goldberg, and staff writer at the atlantic mckay coppins. he is the author of the recently released romney, a reckoning. gentlemen, thank you both for being here. jeff, i'd love to know, what about this moment brought on this spate in particular, this publication from the atlantic, these stories detailing what the trump dictatorship might look like? i will quote something from robert kagan in the post who says, barring some miracle, trump will soon be the nominee. when that happens, there will be a swift and dramatic shift in the political power dynamic in his favor. until now, republicans and conservatives have enjoyed relative freedom to express anti trump sentiments, to speak openly and positively about alternative candidates. all of this will and once trump wins super tuesday. is there a feeling that the window is closing to alarm the american people? >> i mean, that's an interesting question because -- hi, alex, nice to see you. it is an interesting question because a lot of us think that we've had seven or eight years of knowledge of what trump is capable of doing, but, yeah, you know, he doesn't have the nomination yet. as you know, our interest at the atlantic, generally, is not endorsing or pecking favorites in a partisan way. we believe that a strong, liberal party, a strong, conservative party are prerequisites for a healthy american democracy. what you have now is not a healthy conservative party. you have a cult of personality in the republican party built around this person. from a technical standpoint, it's not too late for the republican party to pick someone else. nikki haley, ron desantis, chris christie, so on. so, i thought, were not too late to remind people, and to pull together in one place, right? that's the idea. to pull it altogether. we have a lot of great experts on the atlantic stuff, on different areas, from immigration, national security, to the supreme court, and so on. it is not too late to pull them all together, and have them outline exactly what they think will happen. they do that based on looking at the four years of the first trump term, right? and, i think you were alluding to this in your program, they are just listening to what he's saying now, and what his supporters are saying now. i wanted it all in one place. at the very least, what i told our staff, you know, we may not convince people that trumpism is a very bad idea, but at least we will have tried to stop what i see as a disaster in the making. >> yeah, at least we will have tried seems to be, kind of, the distress call amongst those who know and care. mckay, i want to ask you, in the context, not just of trump, but the republican party at large, the last few weeks, they felt trump's minions charge the hill, and they may have taken it. by the hill, i mean capitol hill, right? we have the retirement of mitt romney, which you have beautifully chronicled in your book. you have liz cheney, who is no longer in congress, out with her book this week, saying many of the same things that are echoed in the pages of the atlantic. there was the oster of kevin mccarthy who, by no means, was a normal republican, but was slightly tethered to reality. the emphasis on slightly. the elevation of mike johnson, very much a trump lackey, patrick mchenry, a kind of, sort of, normally republican, by no means a moderate. he announced his retirement today as well. i wonder what you make of the party that stands around trump, and, specifically, the members of congress who, in some ways, are supposed to be a check on trump's power, whether he has fully overtaken the party on the hill. >> it's a great question. one of the most significant victories trump has had in the years since he left the white house was holding on to and consolidating his support in congress among republicans, right? the last several years, and you can go back to his presidency, but really, the last few years have seen an exodus of the handful of dissidents within the republican party who were willing to routinely call out trump for his excesses, outrageous, his anti democratic behavior, and what has happened is the culture of fear, of speaking out against trump, has, kind of, calcified, you know? it is very hard these days to find a republican who is willing, on the hill, to say anything critical of donald trump. you know, we are in the middle. it's important to remember, you talked about, it we are in the middle of a republican presidential primary. typically, during a moment like this, you would find a lot of different republicans who have their own favorite candidates that, you know, they would be engaged in sir gusty, and robust debate over who should be the nominee. instead, what you see, a culture of silence and fear, and republicans who have, basically, consigned themselves to the reality trump will be their nominee. even as, you know, not a single vote has been cast. >> and i think, furthermore, jeff, there is a question of whether they even whisper about what they'd like to do, whether there is even a sense that there is a chasm between what is good for democracy, and what they're doing. the revisionism, for example, around something like january six, is so profound. i was struck by the fact the speaker of the house has openly said, we've got to where the faces of the insurrectionists so doj doesn't charge them. that is the legislative branch, i won't say open warfare, but openly hostile to the work of the department -- >> it's astonishing, it's astonishing. >> astonishing! today, i think, jim jordan announced the investigation into fani willis, colluding with the january 6th committee, that is going to be an investigation led by the oversight chair. they have revised the nature of that insurrection to the degree it appears they almost believe what they're saying. they are getting high on their own supply, jeff. >> right. you know, what is interesting here, to me, people talked about, well, the country survived the first trump term. this is not going to be -- if he wins, it is not the first trump term. mckay has a good piece on this in the atlantic. no more grown-ups, as we referred to them. the jim mattis, bill barr, john kelly, all these people who came in, mainstream conservative republicans, people who believed in the rule of law, where there, and they checked trump's worst impulses. now, it's going to be true believers all the way down, right? loyalists all the way down. they are going to -- david inner issue refers to the possibility of a second trump term as the revenge presidency. it's all about punishing enemies. remember, these are people who believe the insurrectionists were right, and the people who were criticizing them, that liz cheney, adam kinzinger, mitt romney, they are the traitors, you know? we are in the upside down, right? if we get there, if trump becomes president again, it is -- i hate to sound dramatic, right? i don't like to do the drama thing, but it is not going to be the country we know anymore. it is going to be hungary in a lot of ways. >> to that, not the hungary piece, but the pc wrote, mckay, in the magazine, you mentioned some of the loyalists jeff eludes to. stephen miller, rick grenell, kash patel, mike davis, jeffrey clark, vivek ramaswamy, maybe even ted cruz having cabinet-level positions. you bring up the point that requires senate confirmation. how worried do you think the country really needs to be about kash patel running the cia? how feasible is that? >> so, it's a good question. i asked a number of people in trump's orbit about this. some of the names that are being floated for these positions seem pretty unpalatable to, you know, senate confirmation process. what they told me was, look, maybe that is true. if we can't get stephen miller, for example, confirmed as head of department of homeland security, we can just install him as white house chief of staff, and he can take over a lot of the same rules that he would have in that role. they're already gaming out ways to get around the challenge of confirmation to ensure that the people who are most loyal to trump, most obedient to trump, are the ones who will have the power. you're going to see a pretty broad restructuring of government in a second term. you mentioned this at the top, alex, this isn't just about the cabinet-level positions. this is about the rank and file government bureaucrats. there's an effort underway to ensure that up to 50,000 federal workers will be reclassified, essentially, as political appointees, that the president can fire at will. what that means, for example, at the justice department, maybe you have jeffrey clark, or ted cruz, or josh hawley as attorney general, but you also have the rank-and-file eure's who are in charge of filing subpoenas, putting together lawsuits, all of them will be replaced, or it could be replaced with hyper loyalists. in fact, paul dance of the heritage foundation, who worked as the trump office of personnel, had during the first term, had told me that they're already putting together a long list of people who've been vetted by, then who would make a great member of the administration at that level. one thing he told me, that i think is really chilling, and i quote this in the piece, he said, the whole notion of an independent justice department needs to be consigned to the history. he basically is saying, the justice department will be used by the president to pursue his vendettas, and revenge against his political opponents and enemies, and that is as it should be. that speaks to the ethos of a second trump term. >> mckay coppins, jeffrey goldberg, it is all in one place thanks to you, and mckay, and many other talented writers at the atlantic. thank you, gentlemen, for your time tonight. i really appreciate it. the latest issue on new stands now is entitled, "if trump wins". we have much more ahead this evening as potential jurors in trump's first federal criminal case to go to trial, as they get something special in their mailboxes. â plus, all alarm bells ring with us second trump presidency. next guest says it's not too late to fight and win, and not just at the ballot box. that is next. are you tired of clean clothes that just don't smell clean? 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we are closer to that point today than we have ever been, yet we continue to drift toward dictatorship, still hoping for some intervention that will allow us to escape the consequences of our collective cowardice, our complacent, willful ignorance, and, above all, our lack of any deep commitment to liberal democracy. kagan's editorial is part of a series of alarms that are nearing a crescendo ahead of the 2024 election. judge michael luttig, one of the most prominent conservative voices written an opposition to donald trump, arguing it's not too late. he is leading the american bar association's task force to american democracy alongside jeh johnson, president obama's security, secretary of homeland security. the goal here is to outline meaningful steps that could be taken to preserve and protect our democratic institutions. joining me now is jeh johnson, former secretary of homeland security under president obama, now co-chair of the aba's task force for american democracy. secretary johnson, thank you for joining me for what i hope could be somewhat positive, optimistic, or at least uplifting conversation. >> thanks for having me, alex. >> thanks for coming on the set. first, tell me about the fact the american bar association is getting involved in an effort to preserve democracy. what, legally speaking, can and should be done ahead of the next election? >> first of all, it is not just the aba, it is state bar associations who have thrown in with us, and the task force we have assembled or not just lawyers, they are historians, people ranging from mark morial, head of the urban league, bill k