willie, you look at the leads in the papers today, the major papers today. "the wall street journal" talking about the white house warning that funding for kyiv to run out in weeks. obviously, a desperate, desperate situation for those trying to stop a russian invasion here. the leads on "the times," also, their lead story, of course, about israel pushing further south into gaza and approaching another large city center and the growing concerns about a humanitarian crisis. and, of course, over here, something that there's more and more focus on, it's about how donald trump's second term could obviously create a much darker trump and, of course, willie, very few checks and balances. we'll be getting all of those things today. a lot of really important stories and a lot of ground to cover. >> yeah. we're also going to be joined by liz cheney in just about an hour from now, and she'll tell us about her warning, as well. she believes if donald trump is elected to the white house again, he may never leave. she'll explain that and also some new nuggets coming out of her book about the days and the weeks around january 6th. a busy morning ahead. >> absolutely. along with joe, willie, and me, we have the host of "way too early," white house bureau chief at "politico," jonathan lemire. editor of "the washington post," david ignatius is with us, as well. the israeli military appears to have begun its ground offensive in southern gaza. tan ks and armored personnel ar in the area. it sets the stage for what will likely be one of the biggest battles of the war in southern gaza's largest city. israeli officials believe the military leadership of hamas has been seeking shelter there. israeli defense forces have declined to comment specifically on these developments but say they are operating all over the gaza strip. air strikes were launched in the south over the weekend. the plan to invade the area has been met with stark warnings from u.s. officials to protect civilian lives. yesterday, gaza's two main internet service providers announced another near total blackout. officials say it was caused by a cut of the main fiber roots. service has started gradually returning this morning. >> david ignatius, of course, we have pictures in "the new york times." of course, an invasion into the south takes a humanitarian crisis that was already dire and obviously amplifies it. think of all the people who streamed, listened to the israelis, went from the north to the south. israelis cut gaza in half, began to work north of gaza, northern gaza, trying to root out the terrorist cells, trying to figure out where the hostages were. now, the population has been pushed to the southern half of gaza. now, the military exercises move forward there. it looks like a major risk for the very thing that the biden administration fears, and that is more civilian casualties at a high rate that we saw the first couple weeks of these battles. >> joe, the head of the international committee for the red cross, highly respected, spoke yesterday of an intolerable level of human suffering in gaza as this war moves forward. israel is tightening its control of southern gaza, just as it did in knot earn gaza in the first weeks of the war. i think their goal is to try to trap yahya sinwar, the head of hamas, in gaza operations, and, if possible, arrest or kill him. many israelis would treat that as victory in this war. but all the signs of attempts to control that territory, checkpoints being established on sal hadeen road, where i was two weeks ago, just a choke of people. i had a feeling reading the stories, as you may have, there was, for gazans, nowhere to run. they're being told to evacuate one place to go to other places. those places are under bombardment or may soon be. it is an impossible situation. u.s. officials, i think, are near a breaking point, but not there yet. a break with israel over this would be a fundamental change in policy. you had sharp warnings from kamala harris, from secretary austin and secretary blinken, but there's no break yet. the u.s. is still treading water on this, letting the israelis continue their attack. >> i suspect if we see images in the next few weeks like the images we've seen in the past few weeks, there will obviously be increased pressure and, i would suspect, even possibly a public break, demanding that civilian casualties be kept down. willie, for people who haven't been following this closely or haven't been following politics in the middle east closely, of course, these palestinian refugees in their own country, pushed from the north to the south, now 2 million people jammed in the south. israelis now telling them they need to go elsewhere because they have to root out hamas. hamas, of course, as we all know, they hide behind civilians. they hide underneath hospitals. they hide in schools. they hide in mosques. they hide in place where is they hope the most civilians will be killed when israel is trying to root them out. that said, this humanitarian crisis, of course, started because of hamas, but also amplified because egypt has shut off the border so the palestinians can't go into egypt and be safe until this war ends. >> it's been one of the questions we've been asking for over a month, what about egypt? why wouldn't they let refugees in the country the way poland welcomed refugees when that war started? they've been a conduit for humanitarian aid, of course, but in terms of refugees, not much to speak of. you're right, the civilians who have been told after october 7th, almost two months ago, to move south are now in a place where they're being attacked again because hamas puts themselves behind civilians in the south. israel is now saying the place we told you to go, leave there, too. hamas is there. we've got to get in there. if you're a civilian in gaza, it is a terrible predicament, but benjamin netanyahu has made no tt he is going to continue to prosecute this war and go after hamas, whatever that ans. this factors into how will the united states continue to fund this? aid is hanging in th balance as congressional republicans want policy changes and border spending as part of a national security supplemental package. sources tell nbc news bipartisan talks on border policy changes tied to the supplemental have broken down now. u.s. office of management and budget is warning without congressional action, the u.s. will run out of resources to help ukraine by the end of the year. the white house sounding the alarm about this, saying, if we want to stop vladimir putin, if we want to continue to help israel in its fight against hamas, we got to get this supplemental package through. over $100 billion now they're asking for. >> the office of management and budget notified leaders sunday night. we heard from national security adviser jake sullivan at the podium yesterday, saying the time is running out. by the end of the year, the u.s. will have run out of money to send to ukraine, and it'll leave them in a dire position. europe is still supporting ukraine, but there has been waning there, as well. the united states, of course, is the backbone of this alliance. president biden has really built it to support ukraine. if the u.s. is unable to continue to back them financially, that'll really hinder ukraine's ability to try to ward off russia's ongoing invasion. of course, it'd also change the perspective of the u.s. around the world. congress at least to this point isn't moving very fast. senator schumer is trying to get things going in the senate right now, but the house is worried this is bogged down. there's a sense that there's really not much progress from the last week or so. the winter holiday break is coming. if this spills into the new year, not only will the money have expired, but congress will be consumed with government spending fights, trying to keep the lights on in washington. there's alarm in the white house about what's next. the lead story in this morning's "new york times" is warning how a second term could unleash a darker trump. highlighting the former president's violent and authoritarian rhetoric on the 2024 campaign trail. theap notes that, as he runs for president again facing four crim prosecutions, mr. ump may seem more angry, desperate, and dangerous to american-style acyhan in his first term. but the throughline that emerges is far more long running. he has glorified political vie violence and spoken admiringly of autocrats for decades. an interview from three decades ago, trump spoke admirably of how china crushed democratic proteste in the square, and also praised saddam ssein, and also duterte, strongmen. in a hypothetical second trump administration, the forces that somewhat contained his autocratic tendencies in his first term, including some staffers, congressional republicans, and a partisan balance on the supreme court, ul all be weaker. as a result, mr. trump's and his advisors' more extreme policy plans and ideas for a second term would have a greater prospect of becoming reality. >> let's bring in now staff writer for "the atlantic" anne applebaum. her new piece, part of "the atlantic" special issue, outlining the dangers of a second potential term for donald trump. titled, "trump will abandon nato." thank you for being with us. "the new york times" lead written by charlie savage, jonathan swan, and maggie haberman, it is much like a piece that "the washington post" has recently written, and also what's happening with "the atlantic" this month. you, jeffrey goldberg, so many others, writing about the dangers of a second trump term. again, this is all lifted straight from, i believe it was your book in 2017. it appears your warnings are taking shape in the form of donald trump's plans for a second term. >> i think people are suddenly realizing trump is likely to be the republican candidate, and they're also realizing just about now that he is running on an explicitly anti-constitutional platform. he's running as someone who would overthrow the constitution, who would undermine it, who would, you know, undermine the american civil service, maybe the military. i think that's why you're suddenly seeing so many people writing about it. in fact, you know, your previous item, we're already having a taste of what a trump second term could look like. really, in this irresponsible battle for funding over ukraine. here is an ally we have been supporting bravely for the last, you know, 19 months. they are fighting on the ground. they're undermining the army of one of our important geopolitical rivals, russia. we're, you know, arguing in washington about whether or not to keep helping them? i mean, that's outrageous, but it's a taste of what could happen if trump were to win. in which case, he is very likely to say, "i don't care about europe. i don't care about nato. i'm leaving." >> so, anne, as you studied in your book, as you studied what orban did on the path to power, as you studied what law and justice party did on the path to power, i don't remember it even being as explicit. >> right. >> their threats against democracy in hungary and poland, even being as explicit as having a presidential candidate promising to terminate the constitution, execute generals that are insufficiently loyal, and ban television news networks that he doesn't like. again, in the campaign phase, this seems far more explicit, far more extreme than even what we saw in orban's rise and the law and justice's rise in poland. >> no, you're absolutely right. i mean, it's true that, in both of those cases, it was the second term. it was the second time of being in power when those political parties and leaders, you know, began to push back against the media, you know, change the constitution, change the courts. so in that sense, this is a parallel. you're right, this kind of language about, you know, attacking my enemies and describing them as vermin, you know, which is the kind of language that nazis used to describe their enemies and describe jews, you know, this isn't something you heard in central europe. it sounds much more like what you'd hear in russia or in one of the really severe autocracies around the world. it's not even -- it's not even the language of declining democracy elsewhere. >> anne, let's be specific on your piece about donald trump getting out of nato. first of all, how that would work. what does it look like for the it states to get out of nato? and the implications of that, given what we're livingough in ukraine, give president biden's efforts to strengthen nato, thated mbers, on the cusp of adding another still, getting 800 miles of new border up along russia with its latest member. what would it mean for the united states to withdraw from nato? what would it mean to the world? >> first of all, it is important to understand what nato is. you know, nato is an alliance based on a pretty open-ended treaty. you know, article 5, famous article 5 of the nato treaty, just says, "an attack on one member will be treated as an attack on all." it doesn't say what you have to do. there's no obligation to do anything. but it has created a psychological effect. the idea is that there is something like collective defense. the united states plus its european allies plus canada would come to one another's aid if attacked. it did happen once after 9/11. there was a declaration of article 5, and nato members came to u.s. aid in afghanistan. also what that means is that if trump were to be president, and if he were simply to say, "i don't believe in collective defense anymore. i don't care about europe," which he has said, by the way. he said, "i don't give a shit about nato to john bolton." he tried to leave the nato alliance when he were president before. if he were to say that and be backed up by his cabinet members, that's it. the problem of collective defense is gone. there would, of course, be a reaction. you know, the senate would fight back. former military chiefs, there might be political resistance to it. really, all he has to do is say it. if people don't believe he'd go to war for them anymore, why wouldn't russia say, "okay, if that's how it is, then, you know, why should we defend poland" -- sorry, the u.s. isn't going to defend poland if we attack the airports being used to bring in ukrainian aid. it'd simply create the impression that collective defense is gone. by the way, that'd have an impact in taiwan and south korea, as well. >> this is, again, as anne said, david ignatius, it's not the language of democracy in decline. this is language announcing the death of democracy when you talk about terminating the constitution, executing generals that are insufficiently loyal, banning news networks who you disagree with, and promising to jail political opponents. that's domestically. then internationally, donald trump -- >> this is the part he says out loud, by the way. >> he said this in the first term, giving the green light to vladimir putin, to xi, to kim jong-un. these are the three leaders he respects the most, praises the most. this is a complete reshaping of western style democracy, of jefferson democracy, madisonian democracy, however you want to do it. again, he's telling us right now, if he is elected, that will come to an end. >> joe, reading the articles that you described, one significant article was robert kagan's in "the washington post" over the weekend. it basically said, "we are on the road to dictatorship." what i found myself asking, what i'd ask my colleague, anne, is what americans, and, in particular, u.s. public officials should do about it. these warnings increasingly are specific and, i think, have to be taken seriously. that was the point of kagan's article. this is coming at us. we either act or we'll live with the consequences. you've thought a lot about this. you're one of the best writers on these issues of preserving democracy. what would be a list of things you think people should do now to prevent this disaster from happening? >> so there's a range of things depending on who you are. you know, if you're an ordinary person, you can join a civic organization. you can work on behalf of -- either on behalf of a republican candidate who would defeat trump or on behalf of the democratic party. you could involve yourself in local politics. you can -- you know, you can stop treating democracy as if it were sort of something you don't have to think about except once every four years. you can be involved in it every day. but think there are also some more specific things. the republican officials who understand trump, who worked with trump, his cabinet officers, you know, his national security advisors who know exactly how dangerous he is, should, you know, begin to campaign now. they should go around the country. they should speak as a group. they should say, "here's what the stakes are. here's what this man does." you know, clearly, the republican opposition should unite around one candidate. probably at this point, nikki haley. if nikki haley were to lose, she should think of running as a third-party candidate to split the vote. people need to begin to think seriously, how do we stop this? how do we prevent him from winning? how do we communicate the danger to the american people? >> right. >> of course, jonathan lemire, the problem now for those who want to push back against donald trump, in the republican primary, a split field. nikki haley, who is on the rise, but you have chris christie facing increasing pressure to get out of the race, to try to stop donald trump. of course, ron desantis, whose campaign has been seen lagging badly, also not facing as much pressure, but a one-on-one between nikki haley and donald trump is actually something that donald trump fears the most. i will say it, nikki haley nomination is something democrats fear the most. they do not want to run against nikki haley. so how does the white house sort through all of this? >> the timing of this conversation is such where the next republican debate is tomorrow night. just four republicans left on that stage. these debates have seemed irrelevant because of how far ahead trump is in the polls, but i think we should be watching christie and ramaswamy. they're in sort of a second tier. it's really about desantis and haley tomorrow night. can one really wound the other, where one, therefore, and right now haley would be the person with the momentum, would surge forward and become the clear trump alternative? maybe the field would begin to winnow. desantis is not going to get out before iowa and new hampshire, but it's been noted, the primary calendar for republicans, there's about a month between new hampshire and south carolina. that might be the time where we see the field shrink to just trump and one other opponent. maybe it's haley. maybe that crystallizes the chance. that might be the republican party's best chance to move away from trump. right now, these are wish casting. he is a massive, massive lead, and it seems far more likely, to anne's point just now, that even if haley were to be defeated and trump were to be the nominee, she wouldn't challenge him as a third-party candidate. she'd get in line behind him and maybe try to become his vice president. >> right, exactly. that's the problem there. the only one who is criticizing him full on is chris christie. "the atlantic's" anne applebaum, thank you very much. her piece part of the magazine's special issue on a potential trump second term is online now. still ahead on "morning joe," we'll take a look at new polling from younger voters on next year's presidential election. >> this is obviously a key group. >> yes. >> right now, it seems more split than they have been in the past. if donald trump is to be defeated, those younger voters are going to need to move toward joe biden and the democratic party over the next year. john della volpe from harvard has the latest numbers. we'll go through them. also ahead, house oversight committee chair james comer claims to have new bombshell evidence against hunter biden. we'll explain why it seems to be another dud. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. [coughing] copd isn't pretty. i'm out of breath, and often out of the picture. but this is my story. 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[speaker continues in the background] the network with 24/7 built-in security. chip? at&t business. what causes a curve down there? can it be treated? stop typing, and start talking. it could be a medical condition called peyronie's disease, or pd. and it could be treated without surgery. find a specialized urologist who can diagnose pd and build a treatment plan with you. visit makeapdplan.com today. joanna gaines: discoveries at saint jude helped this kid beat cancer at age two. marget: and now this kid has three kids. chip gaines: and that's what we do at saint jude. subject: give thanks for the healthy kids in your life and give a gift that could last a lifetime. live shot of the white house at 27 path the hour. officials believe the biden administration is downplaying this weekend attack against commercial vessels in the red sea. on sunday, houthi rebels in yemen launched missiles and drowns against three separate ships. a u.s. navy warship fired back, taking down three unmanned aerial systems. the defense department says it, quote, cannot assess whether the u.s. was the target of the attack, but officials with knowledge of the incident tell "politico," u.s. naval forces are clearly under threat in the red sea. they argue the white house is downplaying the seriousness in an attempt to avoid escalating tensions in the middle east amid the israel-hamas war. >> david, what can you tell us? >> joe, i think two things are clear here. one is that the houthis are not deterred from attacking shipping in the red sea from these reports, deterred from firing missiles at israel itself. some of them the most heavy ballistic missile attacks, coming from houthis in yemen. secondly, it is obvious the united states does not want to get into a wider war now with iran to stop this. i've been wondering whether there will be some kind of middle step, a quarantine on delivery of weapons to the houthis that would be enforced the u.s. navy, perhaps also an embargo on delivery by air. unless something is done, these attacks are getting more and more dangerous by the day. let's turn back to the war in israel. richard engel is standing by for us in jerusalem. he is nbc news chief foreign correspondent. good to see you today, richard. we were talking a few minutes ago about israel's continued push into southern gaza, what that means for civilians there, how hamas is responding, putting civilians between it and the israeli military. what are you hearing, and what are you seeing on the ground there? >> reporter: so we still have two teams in southern gaza, and one team is in rafa and another in hanyunis. this started in the northern part of the gaza strip with strikes in and around gaza city. at the time, israelis ordered palestinians to move south. there were attacks han yunis, which is now under re. there have been bloody attacks there. officials are near the city center, and people are sg to leave any way theycan. they are leaving in cars. not a lot of fuel in gaza, so they are leaving on bicycles, leaving on horse and donkey carts, and they are heading toward the city of rafah. rafah is on the egyptian line, no further south to go. the humanitarian conditions in rafah are dire. there's trash on the streets. there are hundreds of thousands of people crowded into what was effectively a small town. rafah, i've been there. normally has about 400,000 people. it has many times more that population right now, maybe 600,000, 700,000. they're expecting the arrival of another 600,000 or 700,000 people for khan yunis. in a small town with 300,000 people, you could have a half a million people by the end of this week or next week. rafah simply can't sustain it. they don't have enough food, enough water, enough places to sleep. already, people are sleeping out in the open or sleeping wherever they can because there just aren't beds. there aren't homes. there aren't shelters. there's a concern about the spread of diseases. what many people in rafah will tell you, what they fear is israel's goal is to push them out of the country, push them out of the gaza strip entirely, and to drive them into egypt. it is something egypt also fears, which is why it is keeping its border closed. a serious humanitarian situation in southern gaza else claiming right now. what israel says it is doing, it is completing its mission. it is going where hamas is. hamas moved south with the displaced people and also moved to where it could find safety and shelter. israel believes it has no choice but to do after hamas leaders, even if they are still surrounded by people. >> you started answering my next question, which is why egypt hasn't opened to refugees, to allow people to come in in the way european nations did with ukraine over the last few years, namely, poland, lebanon. why other arab nations have not welcomed the refugees who are living in dire conditions. >> reporter: well, the egyptian -- this is a conflict that goes back decades. longer than that depending on how you do the math and think about it. religious terms, it goes back a few thousand years. this particular conflict over gaza, we're talking about decades. the palestinians believe and egyptians believe after this attack, this atrocity, that israel's secret, undeclared mission is to empty out the gaza strip, to destroy as much of it as they can in the process. israel, today, said it'd located 800 tunnel shafts so far by hamas and destroyed 500 of them. and to drive people into egypt, in which case, gaza would be no more. the people of gaza would be permanently displaced, living in the sinai peninsula. that is something that egypt does not want. it is something the people of gaza don't want. so, instead, we have this captive population which is being moved around, shuffled from one place to the next, that is under attack. there's desperation growing in gaza. there's real fear. there's anger. i think the people i've spoken to in gaza, and some of them i've known for years, i've never seen them this disillusioned, this disheartened, and this depressed. but they do not say that the solution is a long-term resettlement of gaza into egypt. >> nbc's richard engel, great job explaining all of that for us this morning, as always. richard, thank you. "washington post"'s david ignatius, thank you, as well. see you soon. up next, former congresswoman liz cheney live in our studio to discuss her book, "oath and honor." talk about the threats she sees from a potential second trump term. the state of the republican party and her own future in politics. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. at 4 months. and skyrizi is just 4 doses a year after 2 starter doses. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine, or plan to. with skyrizi, nothing on my skin means everything! ♪ nothing is everything ♪ ask your dermatologist about skyrizi. learn how abbvie could help you save. my name's jody, i've been a pediatric nurse for 18 years. i love what i do, but we definitely need more support. the last administration's policies were so troubling. and our healthcare system has become a business, and people are becoming billionaires off the backs of sick people. i've seen the heartbreak when parents are trying to figure out how they're going to pay for a medicine to keep their kid healthy. but we are seeing lots of positive changes, and thanks to president biden and vice president harris families can afford medication now. the biden administration lowered the cost of prescription drugs, and passed laws to make health care more affordable. the idea that we could go back to the policies that help the rich get richer and left so many people behind... i don't want to go back. i can't go back. i'm joe biden and i approve this message. if you're looking for a medicare supplement insurance plan that's smart now... i'm 65. and really smart later i'm 70-ish. consider an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan from unitedhealthcare. with this type of plan, you'll know upfront about how much your care costs. which makes planning your financial future easier. so call unitedhealthcare today to learn more about the only plans of their kind with the aarp name. and set yourself and your future self up with an aarp medicare supplement plan from unitedhealthcare. you're probably not easily persuaded to switch with an aarp medicare supplement plan mobile providers for your business. but what if we told you it's possible that comcast business mobile can save you up to 75% a year on your wireless bill versus the big three carriers? 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>> yeah, thanks again, mika and joe, for having me again. you know, this is an opportunity we had to speak to a couple thousand young americans. there's been a lot of conversation the last month or so, looking across tabs of a couple hundred young americans. we're seeing three big things. the first, president biden is in solid shape, i'd say, in a two-way matchup against president trump today. one. the second thing is, as you can see, it gets much more complicated with multiple independent candidates in the field, specifically bobby kennedy, two. the third thing is, as you can see, as you just noted, abortion continues to be an incredibly important issue in the post-dobbs environment. folks who align with the pro-choice movement are far more likely to engage, not just politically but actually deriving where they choose to live when they're ready to move and settle down in a career. >> john, let's look at the specifics here on our first graphic. this is the fewer 18 to 29-year-olds plan to vote this time around. that's the fear of the biden campaign, which is not they're going to leap to donald trump but that they don't show up at all. as you look inside here, it is true more republicans and independents say they won't vote. should the biden white house feel good young democrats are going to go vote? >> there are more independents today than four years ago. people are disassociating with the democratic party, specifically young people of color, young african-americans, young hispanics. double digit decreases in the number of young people who align with the democratic party today relative to four years ago. we spent a lot of time on this really talking about voter suppression, for good reason. this is about voter depression. i think it's a calculated campaign from the far-right to depress young people's turnout in politics, right? they're depressed about views of government. they're depressed about the views of both parties. we can see the effect, i think, in the rise of cynicism and, at this point, a year out, they're less likely to participate in the campaign. >> john, i think the biden administration says, look, we're 11 months out. these young voters will be energized next summer when they think about what's at stake, if donald trump is president again, if abortion rights continue to be rolled back, things like that. >> yeah, it'll crystallize the choice once it's a choice. a or b. your polling here suggests that young people think that donald trump would do better handling the israel-hamas war than perhaps joe biden, by 29% to 25%. let's also remember, of course, so o this might be fueled by young voters. muslim voters. donald trump over the weekend said he is going to bring back the muslim ban. once peoe pay attention, these numbers could chge. >> that number is less about donald trump' position and more about the plurality of young peop who don't trust either one at this point to handle israel-hamas. i don't think it's necessarily a big endorsement for trump, as we said, this is about biden versus the other. we have a solid undecided and, specifically on issue over issue, they want to see that democracy works. they want to see their vote mattered in 2020 with real evidence. >> we talked about the issue of abortion. one of your key findings, pro-choice americans more likely to vote on abortion ballot measures. if there is something on the ballot in their state, they'll go out and vote, ideally, for candidates, as well. >> we updated a series of questions on abortion generally. all this is available on our website, of course. we see an 8-point increase over the last four, five years in terms of overall support of abortion access generally. when we asked people, if there were a referendum or allot measure in your state, how likely would you be to participate? the pro-choice group is far more likely than other people to say they'll turn out on a local issue. >> yeah, so two-thirds, nearly two-thirds of young americans say legal access to reproductive health care, including abortion, is important when choosing where they live. obviously, the issue of abortion is going to be important here. just to go back quickly, something we were talking about, third-party candidates. when you look at the way the vote is split when you throw in the third party, rfk jr., cornell west, maybe joe manchin, as well, how significant is that? what are young voters saying about being fed up, frankly, with the two parties they've been offered? >> listen, willie, as we said, we've got this increasing level of folks who self-identify as independent. they are, by far, the least likely to vote. we're seeing a decrease in the number of african-americans and hispanics, less likely to vote, one, and even college students, as well. when we see a two-way race, it looks like 2020, fairly normal in terms of what you'd expect from younger people. enter cornell west, potentially manchin and kennedy, biden's leads goes from 15 to 8 among registered voters. we know what happened in wisconsin in '16. the news of this poll is regardless of the independent candidates, they take more from biden's side among younger voters than the trump side, specifically bobby kennedy. >> some of the young voters were bringing up the name of rfk jr. what do they think about him? why do they like him, if they do? >> they think he is different than the other two parties at this point. that's what they think. he is clearly a conspiracy theorist, but also, i think, he is a political tactician who understands the vulnerabilities in the electorate, the vulnerabilities in the democratic party, and he is aiming his message directly at them. if you don't have a place in either party, host say inghe's at me. a year out, people are looking at him. it is dangerous, i think, for the democracy. >> is there a sense as to why young democrats would be inters interested in robert kennedy jr.? he is a vaccine conspiracy theorist and hold out-there views on a number of positions. certainly, those in the biden camp i talk to, yes, they're worried about cornell west and jill stein, joe manchin, but they think they'll drop out because they don't want to be seen as electing trump. kennedy, some think he might hurt trump more. your findings disagree? >> within this cohort, absolutely. i looked at data points from the last several years. every electorate, we have a different composition of the youth vote. 18 to 24 young men, they're far more likely to identify as conservative or republican than the young men just a cycle ago. this is the post-covid, joe rogan, barstool sports cohort here, and it's a different kind of voter than we saw four years ago. >> director of polling at the institute of politics at harvard university, john della volpe, so interesting. this will be pivotal. we appreciate it. >> thank you. liz cheney is standing by with a warning about our democracy and what is at stake if donald trump returns to the white house. she will join our set to discuss her new book, "oath and honor," when "morning joe" comes right back. he doesn't even have a mustache. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ welcome back. 51 past the hour. house republicans appear closer to authorizing an impeachment inquiry into president biden. oversight committee chair james comer released what he calls a new piece of evidence, claiming the president's son, hunter biden, was funneling money to his father. >> the house oversight committee is releasing subpoenaed bank records that show hunter biden's business entity made direct monthly payments to joe biden. >> ah, yeah. >> oh, my god. >> here's the problem with that. >> what? >> public sourcing, well -- >> what? >> -- it showed they were car loan repayments. >> what kind of car was it? >> car loan repayments. >> ford raptor. >> was it a ford raptor? >> yeah, raptor. >> could have been a hotrod lincoln. i don't know, do you ride about it in tennessee, go through the smoky mountains? >> comer is more in the mouth. >> yeah, more smoking guns. >> the transactions were hunter paying back money he borrowed for a ford raptor truck. >> that's a crime right there. >> i question the truck choice, i do. >> that's a crime right there. >> you always go for the 150. >> f-150. >> go big. >> f-150. >> willie, by the way -- >> 1993, two tanks. >> those payments came two years after joe biden was out of office as the vice president. hunter biden's attorney released this statement. quote, the truth is nter's father helped him, when he was struggling financially due to his addiction and couldn't secure credit to finance a truck. when hunter was able to, he paid his father back and then took over the payments himself. >> we have another one. >> what's that? >> yeah. rnc chair ronna mcdaniel is accusing president biden and the white house of suppressing news coverage about his son, hunter biden's, laptop. >> this sounds serious. >> this is a biden white house that was meeting with social media companies, dictating what they put on their platforms before the 2020 election. that, to me, is suppression. this is a white house that killed a hunter biden story we now know is true, that prevented voters from knowing that before the 2020 election. that, to me, is suppression. >> willie. >> obsessed. >> willie, the fact that joe biden was so corrupt, so evil, so powerful that he could suppress this information, his white house could suppress this information, even when he was not in the white house. >> which was not -- >> it means he has, like, some x-men/avengers. i think it's more x-men. he has these x-men powers where he can warp time or something. maybe it is more, like, an avengers multiverse thing. he's not really present, but he is. i don't think ronna knows that. i'm wondering why she said the biden white house did it when biden wasn't in the white house, and nobody corrected her. >> yeah. >> joe biden was not president of the united states in 2020 ahead of the presidential election. he was trying to become president. there was no biden white house to suppress the free press. >> so powerful. >> donald trump, of course, was still president at that point. i mean, what strikes you, joe -- >> just say it. >> -- is how bad they are at this. if you're going to sell the claim that there is a biden crime family, there is this international syndicate, that somehow joe biden is directing and enriching himself, you'd think over all these months and months and now years, they would have at least produced something credible that would have showed that joe biden was connected to something. what they had yesterday, what james comer presented, was three $1,300 car payments. now, let's say that were a scandal. turns out, as mika laid out, it wasn't. that's what you have weighed against donald trump trying to overturn the 2020 presidential election and planning to do worse if he is elected again. >> they -- they -- jonathan lemire, they keep shooting themselves in the foot. they can't stand up for falling down. here, she gave a dr. strange theory, that, somehow, he rearranged time. biden was president before biden was president. the biden white house. the thing is, how do you say that on tv and say, "oh, this shows how corrupt he is." nobody corrects it. 2020, wasn't president. >> no, unless joe biden also has the ability to travel time, maybe a past version of joe biden meets a present version of joe biden, this seems pretty implausible. but it is being picked up and run with. it's on the front page of the newspaper. the murdoch empire pushing the story lines, and they're shameless. there is no there there, but they're going to keep doing it. we heard from the speaker that the impeachment inquiry seems to be proceeding on track, something congress will take on in the next couple of weeks. >> they do it unchecked. coming up, former republican congresswoman liz cheney will be our guest right here on "morning joe." she joins us with her new highly-anticipated book, "oath and honor." that is straight ahead on "morning joe." my mental health was much better. but i struggled with uncontrollable movements called td, tardive dyskinesia. td can be caused by some mental health meds. and it's unlikely to improve without treatment. i felt like my movements were in the spotlight. #1-prescribed ingrezza is the only td treatment for adults that's always one pill, once daily. ingrezza 80 mg is proven to reduce td movements in 7 out of 10 people. people taking ingrezza can stay on most mental health meds. ingrezza can cause depression, suicidal thoughts, or actions in patients with huntington's disease. pay close attention to and call your doctor if you become depressed, have sudden changes in mood, behaviors, feelings, or have thoughts of suicide. don't take ingrezza if you're allergic to its ingredients. ingrezza may cause serious side effects, including angioedema, potential heart rhythm problems, and abnormal movements. report fevers, stiff muscles, or problems thinking as these may be life threatening. sleepiness is the most common side effect. it's nice. people focus more on me. ask your doctor about #1 prescribed, once-daily ingrezza. ♪ ingrezza ♪ (vo) in three seconds, janice will win a speedboat. 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(vo) get your competitive offer at opendoor dot com. we don't swear to a person or political party. we swear to the united states constitution. that oath must mean something. tonight, i say this to my republican colleagues who are defending the indefensible. there will come a day when donald trump is gone, but your dishonor will remain. as americans, we all have a duty to ensure what happened on january 6th never happens again. to set aside partisan battles, to stand together, to perpetuate and preserve our great republic. >> that was former congresswoman and vice chair investigating the attack on the capitol with a warning to her own party. we've seen the house elect a speaker who cheney says can't up in hold their oath to the constitution. >> and one whether took the lead in the big lie. >> and back another trump term, even as the former president openly touts an extreme and authoritarian agenda while facing 91 criminal counts. liz cheney joins us now. she is a professor of practice at the university of virginia's center for politics and author of the new book out today entitled, "oath and honor: a memoir and a warning." thank you very much for coming on the show this morning to talk about this book. >> thanks for having me, mika. >> we all watched and were impressed and aghast at your work during the january 6th committee hearings. just to name a few things, we've been talking this week about the latest issue of "the atlantic," which is a deep dive into a look at the dangers of a second trump presidency. and we look at trump's own words even now. we could go on for four hours and still have not enough time to talk about the things he says he will do, the things he has said he would do and has done. my first question to you with insight into this, into the republican party and what is happening to it, why do you think he is still very much the frontrunner for the republican nomination, and how much do the republicans you have for that concern you for the future? >> first of all, thank you for having me on. thanks to you guys and to everybody here for the coverage that you've been giving of this issue now for so many years. it really is important and very much appreciated. you put your finger on what i think is, you know, one of and maybe the most important question politically, certainly, that we face at this moment. i think there are a combination of things going on. there are people across the country who feel like they aren't heard by the government, who feel they don't have a voice. donald trump has managed to convince them, dishonestly, that he could be their voice. that reflects a certain percentage of the republican party. it's not a huge percentage. certainly, the people in congress who actually believe what he is saying is very, very small. he's appeased and collaborated with people who know better in leadership in the republican party today. that's partly what makes him so dangerous. >> right. >> people have been willing to look the other way and go along, even when they know that's wrong. >> you know, it wasn't was they'd look the other way because they don't want to lose the base, lose their seats in congress. you write, you know, even during the trump impeachment time, some members, maybe even many, were scared for their own safety, if they would vote toward impeachment. can you tell us more about that, what you heard? >> yeah. i mean, it was widespread in many instances. people would say it directly. a knowledge that if they did the right thing, if they publicly opposed trump, if they voted for his impeachment, for example, they'd be putting themselves and potentially their family at risk. the first time the republicans attempted to oust me from my chair position where we prevailed significantly, it was a secret ballot. i suspect had impeachment been a secret ballot, for example, the numbers would have been much more, many more republicans would have voted in favor of impeachment. now, you know, the fact we're living in a situation where you have to think about a secret ballot because people want to protect themselves, because people feel they're threatened by violence, it's not a place we've been before in this country. >> congresswoman, what's very clear reading this book is you knew this effort was going to cost you your job. you knew a state in wyoming, where donald trump won, it wasn't going to be popular to stand up against him. as you undertook the fight, did you give any consideration to your political career, to your political future? you have a lot of road ahead of you still. senator, maybe higher office, as well. how did you balance these things? you, adam kinzinger and a small handful of others made that choice when most of the others said, "no, this job and this power is more important to me." >> in a way, it is difficult to answer because i never thought about it that way. i was surprised that people did think about it that way. >> that's the only reason i ask, because so many other people did think about it that way. >> right. to me, there was no question about what the constitution required. beginning, actually, while we were being evacuated from the floor of the house, while we were being rushed down the steps, you know, into the tunnels underneath the capitol, i knew then that he had to be impeached and removed. he was a clear and present danger. it was obvious he was not sending help. he was nottelling the mob to stop. each moment that went by, it was just obvious, self-evident, that that was another moment of an impeachable offense. i think the founders were very clear about trying to ensure that people who were elected and in elected office swear an oath to the constitution and put something above, you know, what they called factionalism, allegiance to a single individual. i think what we've seen over the last couple years is how important that really is, how much that really matters, and what we have to demand of our elected officials. >> you publish here in the book the remarks you never got to make on january 6th, where you made the case you're making here, which is, this is not a close call. we in congress do not have the power to overturn the will of the voters. so many of your colleagues did, in fact, do that. we mentioned mike johnson, the current speaker of the house, he is a constitutional lawyer by trade, practice, and education. yet, he led that charge. you say in the book, he sent out a caucus wide email that said, "donald trump has directed me to get a list, effectively, to take names. who is signing onto our brief and who is not? he is going to be disappointed in those who didn't." can you talk more about that and how you responded to it? >> yeah. when that email went out, i heard from a number of members as soon as they received the email, who were very concerned. they said, "wait a minute, is this a threat, that donald trump is going to be looking at this list?" of course, mike said, "no, no, no, he didn't mean it that way." but what he was doing very much with that amicus brief was, first of all, conveying to members that, you know, this amicus brief really doesn't suggest that we understand or we believe or that we're asserting that there's been fraud. but, of course, it was doing precisely that. he was convincing members to sign onto something that, you know, through my discussions with him, through -- i enlisted others. i went to kevin mccarthy's senior lead attorney, and she also was similarly concerned and had been talking to mike and saying, "this is without basis in the constitution." so it was troubling to see. frankly, it was really disturbing. he was a friend of mine, and i was surprised and sorry to see the path he was willing to go down. >> there's so many vivid scenes in these. we were discussing this moment, and i'll let you tell the story. there was a no confidence vote for you, a caucus meeting. congressman kelly of pennsylvania described his feeling toward you how? >> well, this was in february, the first time i was -- that they attempted to oust me. we had a four-hour conference meeting that i presided over, where people basically went to microphones and stood up. there were people who were supporting me, people who were very angry with me over the impeachment vote, over the statement i issued to impeach. there were a number of the men who stood up and expressed frustration and anger with my attitude, frustration and anger with my tone, said i was just too defiant, that was my problem. but the emotion was running very high, and i think what was one of the most surprising moments of the meeting was the one you mentioned, where congressman kelly suggested that, you know, watching me vote to impeach was like, you know, playing in the biggest game of your life and looking up and seeing your girlfriend sitting in the stands of the opposing team. it was a moment where, you know, you're standing up there presiding. >> wow. >> so much sexism there. >> yeah, i mean, it was -- >> some of your colleagues did shout, as well, right? >> yeah. >> who is this guy? >> mike kelly. >> i'm sorry, what was mike's position in the caucus? >> he was a member of the conference. he was, you know -- >> a member. >> yeah. i mean -- >> what was your position in the conference? >> well, i was the chair of the conference. >> yeah. okay, so -- >> the tone. >> can you answer this question? >> your tone, your demeanor. >> why would the chair be sitting up in the stands while one of 435 would be on the field? i don't -- what in the world? i don't quite understand that analogy. >> no. >> can you help snus. >> well, i can't really help you, joe. it left me speechless. >> yeah. >> sorry, willie. >> it was stunning. >> yes. she's the quarterback in that analogy, to answer your question, joe. >> exactly! >> no question who the star on the field was. the book, congresswoman, is filled with vivid illustrations as to how much power trump wielded over your republican colleagues, including how kevin mccarthy, then speaker, would sometimes let him listen in secretly to your weekly meetings. that was, as you write, what led some of your colleagues to lavish praise upon him because they knew the president was listening in. something unimaginable that this current congress would led president biden do. but that hold still remains. >> yeah. >> so many of -- willie listed only you and a few of your colleagues stood up to him. most of you left. mitt romney announced his retirement, another who stood up to trump. those still behind in washington, who to you see who will stand up to him? >> well, i think that's exactly the danger we face. if you think about the future. you know, there's been editorials written saying -- this was in the "wall street journal" journal a few weeks ago -- if donald trump is elected again, we don't have to worry because the institutions of our government will prevent the worst he will attempt to do. nothing can be further from the truth. those republicans, you know, a house with republicans like mike johnson, a senate with people like josh hawley and mike lee, they won't stand up to him. the other thing that is really important in this regard is he will not abide by the rulings of the courts. i think people really need to pause and think about what that means. a president who won't enforce court rulings with which he disagrees. as soon as that happens, people need to recognize immediately, you know, we are unraveling the fundamental structures and systems that make us a nation of laws. so there won't be any guardrails to stop him. >> liz, what to you say to people who accuse you, me, a lot of us, of just -- >> hysteria. >> -- catastrophizing, being hysterical, when we bring up the fact he's talking about terminating the constitution, assassinating generals that disagree with him, taking tv networks off that he disagrees with, jailing immediately those that he opposes, former lawyers that have been insufficiently loyal? what do you -- how do you explain to your friends, your former allies, and other skeptics that this is a decision between democracy and authoritarianism in 2024? >> well, i think that that's exactly what we have to do. i think part of it is remembering that there are certain people we aren't going to convince. there are people that are going to be with trump no matter what. but there are more people, republicans, democrats, independents, who we have to make sure they understand he's not a choice. he is not an option. he's not fit for this office. and i think that those are the people who are listening. those are the people we have to mobilize and motivate, to stand against the danger he presents. and i think that the facts matter. you know, there are a lot of people today who, i think, you know, say, "well, the truth doesn't matter anymore." for some segment of the population, that's true. it doesn't. but far more people are willing to listen. i think that because this isn't just us imagining what he would do, it's us saying, take him seriously. he is telling us what he will do. every single day he does that. just reminding people they can't think of him as an option when they go in to vote in 2024. >> yeah. i want to ask you the next question for counseling advice. i'm wondering how you have dealt with and how you worked through it in the book, the fact that you, like me, had 95% ratings, acu ratings. that was my lifetime rating. i think yours was around 95%, as well. for those uninitiated, that means you're, like, one of the most conservative members of congress, like i was when i was there. and the very people who we were always trying to pull to make the tough conservative votes but were cowards and wouldn't do the conservative thing, those are now the people who are running around chanting "rhino, rhino," while they hug a guy who has never been conservative his whole life, donald trump. i'm just curious, how do you deal with the fact that so many people that supported you back in your district, back in your state, so many people that you knew in church, so many people that you knew and grew up with, who were the foundation of, you know, your childhood and growing into adulthood, those are the very people who have forgotten everything they taught you? those are the very people who forgot everything they ever said about what mattered, about what you want to teach your kids to do, what limited government should look like. how do you work through that still? >> you know, i think it is certainly painful in many cases, to think about people you thought you knew, people who you'd taken a judgment of their character and decided, certainly, these were people you thought were honorable. to see that they aren't is very difficult. i do think, though, part of it is understanding and recognizing that there are millions of really good people who have been betrayed by donald trump, and recognizing the power he's had to prey on their patriotism. then also understanding that those are not the people that are -- the ones that will always be with him aren't the ones we have to convince. we have to talk to people across the spectrum of the challenges and threat he poses. when we come back, we're going to ask liz cheney about a call she was on with trump lawyers, campaign staffers, and surrogates two days before the january 6th attack on the capitol. why she was on that call, and what she heard on it. much more with former republican congresswoman liz cheney and her new book, "oath and honor," when "morning joe" comes right back. liberty mutual customized my car insurance and i saved hundreds. with the money i saved, i started a dog walking business. oh. 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(♪♪) ah, these bills are crazy. she has no idea she's sitting on a goldmine. well she doesn't know that if she owns a life insurance policy of $100,000 or more she can sell all or part of it to coventry for cash. even a term policy. even a term policy? even a term policy! find out if you're sitting on a goldmine. call coventry direct today at the number on your screen, or visit coventrydirect.com. i think a continuation of the biden presidency would be a disaster for peace and prosperity at home and abroad, our borders broken. the only person who can fix the broken border is donald trump. when he was president, none of this stuff was going on in ukraine. you know, hamas and all these other terrorist groups were afraid of trump. i think liz's hatred of trump is real. i understand why people don't like what he does and says at times, but in terms of actions and result, he was a far better president than biden. if we have four more years of this, liz cheney, then we won't recognize america and the world will be truly on fire. >> well, there's one of the people that i knew. i came in with lindsey in 1994. like, won't recognize? who recognizes lindsey? lindsey was one of the nine, ten people in the rooms with largent, myself, and others who, you know, fought time and time again to push, to make sure the budget was balanced. ultimately ran newt out of town. lindsey was the guy who went to the senate and affixed himself to john mccain. then lindsey was the guy that started sucking up to donald trump. john mccain just privately telling me that lindsey just couldn't help himself. he was willing to trade his soul, basically, for a round of golf with the president. that's lindsey. isn't that, liz, a perfect example of a guy who says he's off the train on january the 6th. >> "i'm done." >> "i'm done with him." then he goes to reagan airport, and he's chased by, like, three people and a hound dog, and he suddenly starts sucking up to this guy again. i know you can't imagine doing that. i fear for anybody that was shouting and chasing you in reagan airport. but lindsey completely folds. i only bring him up so much because is that not a perfect example of the men in that conference that coward and sold their political souls for a failed reality tv host? >> certainly, it is. i mean, look, i think that you have to say that, you know, since senator mccain's passing, lindsey is having a hard time even putting on his own shoes. >> yeah. >> you know, i feel sorry for lindsey. i think the record is pretty clear about, you know, his understanding at one point. look, all of the republicans almost in the days just after january 6th understood what had happened. the republicans had a bill they proposed called the commission to investigate the domestic terror attack on the capitol. they proposed a censure resolution that had the same language essentially as the impeachment article. you know, at the beginning of this, there was no question about what donald trump had done and who was responsible for what had happened. >> yeah. >> liz, can you tell us about the conversations that you had with your father before january 6th? >> yeah. on a number of occasions, i talk about in the book, and it's an emotional thing for me, you know, understanding the extent to which my dad has been, and my mother also, so fearful about and so heartbroken about what's happening in our party, what's happening in our country. so, you know, time and time again, particularly with respect to things like the letter from the living secretaries of defense, you know, i sought his counsel. i talk to him every day. there were moments where, you know, listening to him, for example, read the secretary of defense letter over the phone to don rumsfeld, and thinking of the history of those two men, you know, whether you agree with the policies or disagree with the policies, these are people who served the country for decades. we were having this discussion about the possibility that the leaders of the department of defense, including secretary of defense miller, the acting secretary, you know, the need to warn them publicly against, you know, following an illegal order from donald trump, to warn them publicly that there might be criminal liability for them personally if they took some of the steps we were hearing they might take. those were very chilling moments. then, of course, on january 6th itself, when he called me to tell me that i was in danger, you know, just after donald trump had said that they need to get rid of the liz cheneys of the world. they were emotional and moving moments. my commitment, both to my dad and my mom, but also to my kids, to make sure we stay a country where we have a peaceful transfer of power is really fundamental to what i know is important to do. >> you talk about in the book sitting across the table from your kids and going, they may grow up in this world, live in this world where it is not a given that there will be a peaceful transfer of power. >> yeah. >> given what you said about your father's frusfrustrations, curious how you assess the future of the republican party. if there's no room for liz cheney, for goodness sakes, mitt romney, if john mccain is going to be trashed by this current version of the party, if they defy, as you write in the book, everything ronald reagan stood for, what does the republican party look like going forward as you see it? >> certainly, right now, it's abandoned those principles. i joined the party during the era of ronald reagan. today, the party looks much more like a cult of personality, frankly. look, donald trump is not a conservative. he has not been a republican very long. i talk in the book at one point, i wanted to say, to sweet i'd been a republican longer than donald trump had been spray tanning. my communications director said, "no, no, don't do that." but the seriousness of it is that the party is now walked away from the constitution. i don't know if our party can be saved. it may be that we need to build a new party. i think those issues have to come after this 2024 cycle. the focus has to be just completely right now on making sure we don't return donald trump to the white house. >> which leads, liz, to the question that i know you and a lot of conservatives, a question that i've been troubled by every day, how do you beat trump? how do you beat trump in 2024? what is your advice to democrats? what's your advice to independents? what's your advice to people running the biden campaign? what do they need to do to beat trump? >> what we have to do is beat trump is be unified. we have the numbers on our side. we have, you know, the numbers in terms of people across the political spectrum who will not support him. but we cannot get into a situation where people think there are other issues that matter more than this one. we have plenty of time to debate and to argue about all of those issues we care deeply about, but that is not where we are now. where we are now, we've got to be focused on defeating him. >> congresswoman, i want to revisit the book in an important moment, january 4th, twoinsurre. you were on a phone call with trump campaigners and surrogates. what alarmed you in the call so much, and what'd you have to do afterwards? >> so i'd been invited to this call. i was on the email list, you know, from during the campaign. i got an email the day before saying there's going to be this surrogate call to talk about january 6th. i thought to myself, well, you know what, i'm going to dial in and listen. as i listened in, it was jason miller and jenna ellis. it was the first time i heard in such clear terms what they were planning to do with the fake electors, and making these claims there were these, they called them alternate electors, fake electors, that vice president pence was going to use to justify stopping the count. either, you know, throwing out votes that were legitimate ones or refusing to count. it was chilling. as soon as i listened to -- as soon as the call was tone and they'd walked through, you know, these are the plans, walked through names of members of the house who were on board with these plans, including jim jordan and elise stefanik, as soon as the call ended, i ran inside the capitol to the office of the house parliamentarian, who is the non-partisan professional expert on the rules of the house, to say to him, you know, "wait, what do we do if we're in a joint session and the vice president refuses to do his duty and rejects legitimate votes?" after that meeting, where it was very informative because it was clear there was not much we could do, he said to me, "you've got to work with the senate on this." i went and called mitch mcconnell to say, "what's our game plan here? if they do this, do we move to adjourn?" i learned later there were other people, people in vice president's office, as well, who, at that same moment, were precisely focused on this. but it gave me just a sickening feeling, what do we do if those fake electors are in the mahogany boxes that are carried into the house chamber? are we going to be facing, you know, the most serious constitutional crisis since the civil war? >> so much incredible recounting in this book. as the title says, such a warning. the new book is entitled "oath and honor: a memoir and a warning." former congresswoman liz cheney, thank you very much. >> thank you, mika. >> for writing the book. thank you for your service. >> thank you. >> and thanks for coming on this morning. coming up, we're going to have the latest from capitol hill, where the presidents of three high-profile universities are set to testify today in a hearing about anti-semitism on college campuses. plus, where things stand in negotiations for additional aid to america's allies at war. 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>> well, the one thing that is interesting about this, mika, is how willing these college presidents were to sit before congress and likely be grilled by both republicans and democrats about what they're doing to try and prenthe rise of anti-semitism across the country. you know, these three universities, in particular, have taken quite a bit of heat. penn, in particular, has had the threat of some of their most wealthy donors say they're not going to donor to the school anymore unless they do something to fix this. fundamentally, what i'm interested in here today is there isn't much congress can do, especially with the private universities. there have been some congressional leaders that have threatened pulling any federal funding from colleges that don't do more to stop the rise of anti-semitism, or even have suggested trying to take away their tax exempt status. that seems like something that would be very difficult for them to push through legislatively. really, what you're going to see here is more of a kind of public shaming, i think. this is often what congressional committees do, try and force these college presidents to talk specifically about what they're going to do to fix this. mika, it's not just anti-semitism. there is also a concern about islamophobia. we saw the situation in burlington, vermont, where three palestinian college students were attacked. there is a belief that that was connected to their race. >> right. >> so it will be interesting to see how this whole conversation plays itself out. there's still a lot of politics that are involved in these conversations. ultimately, these college presidents are trying to find a sweet spot here where they want to allow free speech. they want to allow reasonable protests and a serious diskux discussion about the complex issue happening in the middle east, but they want to do it in a way their students can remain safe. >> nbc news capitol hill correspondent ryan nobles, thank you very much for your reporting this morning. willie? let's bring into the conversation former under secretary of state during the obama administration, rick, good morning. >> good to see you. >> want to talk about your pad padpodcast in a minute. let's start in israel. from your point of view, having worked in the state department, working closely with israel over the years, what line is the state department walking? what line is the biden administration walking in showing it's standing shoulder to shoulder with israel, and also saying, "we cannot see civilians killed in southern gaza. we don't want any more displacement in southern gaza." how do they handle that relationship? >> off the bat, willie, the president embraced netanyahu because that's the best way to actually have some influence on him. you saw tony blinken in israel last week. he has said over and over that israel has to be more responsible, has to take more care to prevent civilian deaths. the way the u.s. can have influence is by embracing israel but then giving them firm advice. >> at the moment, though, aid to israel remains in question, even though it has bipartisan support. in part, because the initial proposal from the speaker linked it to cuts to irs and the like, and because it is now connected to ukraine as part of the biden administration's plan. tell us, as you see this, the administration has been so rock solid behind zelenskyy and ukraine throughout this crisis, throughout this war, but now, it seems really in doubt the united states will couldn't to aijonat. the existential ramifications of support is huge. russia is the first land violation of a border since world war ii. we've set up the national apparatus to prevent this thing from happening. the fact is, i see a compromise as being possible. i don't see anything wrong with the administration figuring out some accommodation on the border in order to get aid for israel and ukraine. that's how politics works. it's the art of the possible. i think it is possible. >> republicans have signalled, some republican senators said they'd be interested in that. we're not sure if they'll have enough votes. staying on ukraine, remind viewers, because ukraine has faded from the headlines somewhat, what the ramification would be if we do pull back. i don't think anybody suggests russia couldeto kyiv anymore, but if they could hold on to 20%, 25% of the country, how it reshapes europe and the signal it sends for the future. >> the thing i remind people, ukraine is the largest country in europe. russia violated their border. we haven't had anything like that since world war ii. if they succeed, use a powerful country to invade a smaller country and that succeeds, that changes the whole world law-based order we have helped set up. we can't allow that to happen. will there be a negotiated settlement? yes. all wars end at the negotiating table. ukrainians need to be there from a position of strength. >> rick, it's hard to believe, but today is ten years since nelson mandela died. you have this podcast, "mandela, the lost tapes," that audible is putting out again so people can listen to it. remind people of a man you knew so very well, a man whose memoir you wrote along with him. what are your thoughts tell years after his passing? >> well, you know, i think about him every day. i had a very close relationship with him. i spent a lot of time with him. he's a person you can't forget. south africa has changed tremendously since he was president, since he got out of prison. they've been on a cycle downward for a long time. it's not something that he would appreciate. i think another thing americans don't really know is that, you know, there's been a kind of different reckoning with mandela. young people think of him as someone who betrayed the country, who was a sellout. it is hard to imagine that's possible. one of the reasons that i want "the lost tapes" out there again is so people can hear how staunch he was, how courageous he was, how firm he was. i went down in 1992. one year out of prison. worked with him on long walk to freedom. spent a year and a half with him. we had 75 hours of tapes. the podcast, "the lost tapes," you hear us talking. i mean, not even like this. i mean, we're talking on tv. we were in his office, his home, just talking privately, and you hear him in a way that nobody in the world ever heard him except me. now, everybody can hear that. >> can you speak to what you just mentioned? it tends to happen as we get farther away from someone who is viewed by most as an icon. his legacy is questioned by a new generation. what are some of those questions that they raise, and what would you say to them? >> well, i mean, he was, in many ways, one of the greatest revolutionaries in history. he overturned an oppressed, white supremacist state, a minority that controlled the majority of the black population. he did that without violence. even though he started the military wing of the anc. his great fear was there was going to be a civil war, where millions of people died. that's what i think young people in south africa don't realize. what the stakes were, they were just incredible. he wanted to do everything he could to prevent this kind of terrible disaster. did he make some accommodations? of course he did. again, you had that white ruling class that controlled the economy. i think he found a right balance, but then his successors haven't continued that. >> so cool to hear him so unguarded in these conversations, relaxed, and honest. the audible original series, "mandela: the lost tapes," available for free on audible and wherever you get your podcasts. rick, always great to have you here. >> thank you. great to be here. still ahead, we continue our conversation on the dangers of a possible second term for donald trump. "the atlantic's" david frum joins us with more from the publication's special feature. "morning joe" is coming right back. hey everybody, w. kamau bell here. they say that america is the land of the free. but right now, people in the u.s. are seeing their freedoms taken away at an alarming rate. freedoms some of us take for granted. the right to vote. equal access to health care. book banning and other forms of censorship that threaten our right to learn and here's something truly shocking. right now in our country, hundreds of thousands of people are incarcerated simply because they couldn't afford bail. that's not free and it's not fair. but there is hope for change. it lives in people like you and in a great organization called the american civil liberties union. so please join me and other concerned americans in defending our civil liberties by joining the aclu as a guardian of liberty today. all it takes is just $19 a month. only $0.63 a day. when you're surrounded by oppressive laws. you can't just sit back and be oppressed. you get up and fight. and all of us at the aclu are fighting for you. whether it's criminal justice reform or protecting the lgbtq plus rights, abortion rights or voting rights. the aclu is in the courts fighting for your rights, and mine and i, for one, sleep better at night knowing they're working every day in all 50 states to protect our freedoms. but these freedoms are at risk. we have to fight for them tirelessly. and with your help, we will continue to do so so please go to myaclu.org and join the fight for just $19 a month. use your credit card and get this special we the people t-shirt, aclu magazine and more to show you're helping ensure justice for all. as an individual, donating to the aclu is one of the most powerful things you can do to fight for justice. but the aclu can't do it alone. they need your support now to continue defending our democracy and the freedoms we hold dear. so please join us. call or go online to myaclu.org today. thank you. ♪♪ 51 past the hour. we are learning more about a mystery illness causing sickness, even death in seemingly healthy dogs across the united states. now vets may have found some critical clues. priscilla thompson has more. >> this is maple. >> reporter: 7-month-old australian shepherd maple was happy and healthial her owner noticed a cough. >> she's coughing pretty much every other minute. >> reporter: as her cough grew worse she panicked and rushed to the vet. maple was sent home with antibiotics and the vet said they were likely caused by the mysterious illness plaguing dogs across the country. >> it's frustrating. >> reporter: at texas a&m, dr. kate began studying the illness. >> what should they be looking out for? >> discharge with the eye, a soft soft like actually just what he did. >> reporter: an online database say owners are reporting suspected cases in 37 states with at least a dozen deaths. the case of the surge in experts say could include a new pathogen, low vaccination rates or lower immunity levels. one back tear alone was present in 75% of the severely ill dogs she tested and in reviewing x-rays noticed a patterns. are the patterns we're seeing here important? >> they're really important. a lot of the pattern or sort of the brightness we would see wasn't in the spot where we would normally see it. it was occurring further back in the chest. >> reporter: understanding the pattern, she says, could be key for vets to know what medication to prescribe. treatment dog lovers may need to help their best friends. >> all right, that was nbc's priscilla thompson reporting. we're going to turn back to the legal issues surrounding those in former president donald trump's orbit. rudy giuliani is preparing for a jury trial next week that will determine just how much he will be required to pay the two georgia election workers he was found liable for defaming in the wake of the 2020 election. now, the federal judge overseeing the case is slamming the former trump lawyer for refusing to cooperate. u.s. district court judge beryl howell called him out for attempting to up end the hearing. he previously admitted he made false statements about ruby freeman and shaye moss, both of whom worked at a fulton county, georgia, processing site in 2020. he argued any decisions about damages he would owe should be made by a judge rather than a jury, but judge howell isn't buying it writing, that he has known about the jury trial demand for nearly two years. the trial is scheduled to begin next monday. we'll be following that. still ahead here on "morning joe," richard engel joins us from jerusalem with the latest on the israel/hamas war. new reporting on the attacks on a u.s. warship and three commercial shelves in the red sea all straight ahead on "morning joe." ♪ limu emu & doug ♪ [bell ringing] and doug says, “you can customize and save hundreds on car insurance with liberty mutual.” he hits his mark —center stage— and is crushed by a baby grand piano. are you replacing me? 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devices in the home. i told her, “i'm here to take care of you.” connecting with kim... made me reconnect with my mom. it's very important to keep loved ones close. we know that creating memories with loved ones brings so much joy to your life. a family trip to the team usa training facility. i don't know how to thank you. i'm here to thank you. congress has to decide whether to continue to support the fight for freedom in ukraine as part of the 50-nation coalition as part of the collision that president biden has built or whether congress will ignore the lessons from history and we hope congress on a bipartisan basis will make the right choice. >> national security adviser jake sullivan laying out the high stakes of the vote own more aid for ukraine. we'll look at where support stands on capitol hill for president biden's $106 billion foreign aid plan. along with joe, willie and me we have the host of "way too early," jonathan lemire, and columnist and associate editor for "the washington post" david ignatius. our top story this morning, the israeli military appears to have begun its ground offensive in southern gaza. new satellite photos show israeli tanks and armored personnel carriers in the area. the move sets the stage for what will likely be one of the biggest battles of the war in southern gaza's largest city. israeli officials believe the military are military leadership of hamas has been seeking shelter there. israeli defense forces have declined to comment specifically on these developments, but say they are operating all over the gaza strip. air strikes were launched in the south over the weekend. the plan to invade the area has been met with stark warnings from u.s. officials to protect civilian lives. yesterday gaza's two main internet service providers announced another near total blackout and officials say it was caused by a cut of the main fiber routes, services started gradually returning this morning. >> david ignatius, of course, we have pictures, "the new york times" and, of course, an invasion into the south takes a humanitarian crisis that was already dire and obviously amplifies it, and you think of all the people, israelis from the north to the south, they cut gaza in half and began to work in northern gaza trying to root out the terrorist cells, trying to figure out where the hostages were. but now that the population has been pushed to the southern half now the military exercises move forward there. it looks like a major risk for the very thing that the biden administration fears, and that is more civilian casualties at a high rate that we saw the first couple of weeks of these battles. >> joe, the head of the international committee for the red cross highly respected spoke yesterday of an intolerable level of human suffering in gaza as this war moves forward. israel is tightening its control just as it did in the first weeks of the war and their goal, i think to trap the head of gaza as hamas operations and if possible arrest or kill him. i think there are many israelis who would treat that as victory in this war but all the signs of attempts to control that territory, checkpoints being established on the road where i was two weeks ago, just a choke point of people, and i had the feeling reading the stories as you may have that there was for gazans nowhere to run being told to evacuate one place to go to other places. those places are under bombardment or may soon be. it's an impossible situation. >> oh. >> u.s. officials, i think, are near a breaking point, but not there yet. break with israel over this would be a fundamental change in policy. you had sharp warnings for vice president harris following warnings from secretary of defense austin and secretary of state blinken, but there's no break yet. the u.s. is still kind of treading water on this letting the israelis continue their attack. >> well, i suspect if we see images in the next few weeks like images we've seen in the past few weeks there will be increased pressure and i would suspect even possibly a public break demanding that civilian casualties be kept down. willie, just again, for people -- for the uninitiated that haven't been following this closely or haven't been following politics in the middle east closely, of course, these palestinian refugees really in their own country have been pushed from the north to the south and now jammed in the south, 2 million people jammed in the south and now the israelis tell them they need to go elsewhere because they have to root out hamas, and hamas, of course, as we all know, they hide behind civilians. they hide underneath hospitals and in schools and mosques and in places where they hope the most civilians will be killed when israel is trying to root them out. all that said, this humanitarian crisis, of course, has started because of hamas but also amplified because egypt has shut off the border so the palestinians can't go into egypt and be safe until this war ends. >> yeah, it's been one of the questions we've been asking for well over a month. what about egypt? why don't they want refugees to come in like poland did when the war started. they've been a conduit for refugee, not much to speak of. the civilians told after october 7th to move south are now in a place where they're being attacked again because hamas puts themselves behind civilians in the south, and israel is now saying the place we told you to go, leave there too because hamas is there and we've good to get in there. if you're a civilian in gaza, it is a terrible, terrible predicament but benjamin netanyahu has made no mistake he will continue to prosecute this war and go after hamas, whatever that means, and this all now factors into how was the united states going to continue to fund all of this? u.s. aid for both israel and ukraine, by the way, hanging in the balance as congressional republicans want policy changes and border spending as part of a supplemental package but sources say bipartisan talks on border policy changes tied to the supplemental have broken down now. u.s. office of management and budget is warning without congressional action the u.s. will run out of resources to help ukraine by the end of the year, and, jonathan lemire, the white house sounding the alarm saying if we want to stop vladimir putin and continue to help israel in its fight we got to get the package through. over $100 billion now they're asking for. >> the office of management and budget notified congressional leaders sunday night and heard from jake sullivan saying the time is running out. by the end of the year, the u.s. will run out of upon to send to ukraine and that will leave them in a dire position. europe is still supporting ukraine but there's been some waning there, as well, the united states is the backbone and president biden has built to support ukraine, and if the u.s. is unable to continue to back them financially, that will really, really hinder ukraine's ability to try to ward off russia's ongoing invasion, and, also, what changed the perspective around the world. congress isn't moving fast and senator schumer is trying to get things going but the house is where it's bogged down and a sense that there's not much progress has been made, the winter holiday break is coming, and then if this does spill into the new year, not only will the money be expired but they'll be concerned with budget funding fights and trying to keep the lights on in washington. there's real alarm in washington about what's next. >> the lead story in this morning's "new york times" is warning, how a second term could unleash a darker trump. highlighting the former president's violent and authoritarian rhetoric and notes as he runs for president again facing four criminal prosecutions, mr. trump may seem more angry, desperate and dangerous to american-style democracy than in his first term. but the through line that owe merges is far more long running and glorified political violence and spoken admiringly of autocrats for decades. "the times" points toen ainterview from three decades ago where he spoke admirably about how china crushed protesters in tiananmen square and highlights his past praise for saddam hussein and philippines strong man rodrigo duarte. the forces that somewhat contained his autocratic tendencies in his first term including some staffers, congressional republicans, and a partisan balance on the supreme court would all be weaker. as a result, mr. trump and his advisers' more extreme policy plans and ideas for a second term would have a greater prospect of becoming a reality. >> let's bring in anne applebaum and a second term is titled "trump will abandon nato." anne, thanks for being here. "the new york times" lead written here, it's much like a piece that "the washington post" is recently written and also what's happening with "the atlantic," this month, you, jeffrey goldberg, so many others writing about the dangers of a second trump term and, again, lifted, this is all lifted straight from i believe it was your book in 2017. it seems all of your warnings appear to be taking shape. >> bearing out. >> taking the form of donald trump's plans for a second term. >> i think people are suddenly realizing that trump is very likely to be the republican candidate, and i think they're also realizing just about now that he is running on an explicitly anti-constitutional platform. he's running as someone who would overthrow the constitution, who would undermine it, who would, you know, undermine the american civil service, maybe the military, and i think that's why you're suddenly seeing so many people writing about it. in fact, you know, your previous item, we're already having a taste of what a trump second term could look like in this battle really irresponsible battle over funding for ukraine. you know, here is an ally who we've been supporting bravely for the last, you know, 19 months, they are fighting on the ground, they are, you know, undermining the army of one of our important geopolitical rival, russia, and we're arguing in washington about whether or not to keep helping them. that's outrageous but it's a taste of what could happen if trump were to win, in which case he's very likely to say i don't care about europe. i don't care about nato. i'm leaving. >> so, anne, as you studied in your book, as you studied what orban did and the law and justice party did on the path to power, i don't remember it being as explicit, even being as explicit as having a presidential candidate promising to execute generals insufficiently loyal and ban television news networks that he doesn't like. again, in the campaign phase, this seems far more explicit, far more extreme than even what we saw in orban's rise and the law and justice's rise in poland. >> no, you're absolutely right. i mean, it's true that in both of those cases, it was the second term, it was the second time of being in power when those political parties and leaders, you know, began to push back against the media, you know, change the constitution, change the courts and so in that sense this is a parallel but you're right that this kind of language about, you know, attacking my enemies and describing them as vermin, which is the kind of language that nazis used to describe their enemies and describe jews, you know, this isn't something you heard in central europe. it sounds much more like what you'd hear in russia or in one of the really severe autocracies around the world. it's not even the language of declining democracy elsewhere. >> so, anne, let's be specific on your piece about donald trump getting out of nato. first of all, how that would work. what does it look like for the united states to get out of nato and the implications of that given what we're living through and president biden's efforts to strengthening it and getting 800 miles of border. what would it mean to the world? >> so, first of all it's important to understand what nato is. it is an alliance based on a pretty open-ended treaty. article 5, this famous article 5 of the nato treaty just says an attack on one member will be treated as an attack on all. it doesn't say what you have to do. there is no obligation to do anything. but it has created a psychological effect, the idea is that there is something like collective defense, that the united states, plus its european allies, plus canada would come to one another's aid if attacked and did happen once after 9/11 there was a declaration of 5 and nato members came to u.s. aid in afghanistan, but -- and but also what that means is that if trump were to be president and if he were simply to say, i don't believe in collective defense anymore, i don't care about europe, which he has said, by the way, he said i don't give a -- if he were to say and be backed up by his cabinet members, that's it because the promise of collectiveness would be gone. the senate would fight back and former, you know, military chiefs and there might be political, you know, resistance to it but really all he has to do is say it and then if people just don't believe he would go to war for them anymore, then why wouldn't russia say, oh, okay, if that's how it is, then, you know, why should we defend -- if the u.s. isn't going to defend poland if we attack the airports bringing in ukrainian aid so it would create the impression that collective defense is gone and would have an impact in south korea and taiwan, as well. >> it's not the language of democracy in decline. this is language announcing the death of democracy when you talk about terminating the constitution, executing generals that are insufficiently loyal, banning news networks, who you disagree with and promising to jail political opponents. that's domestically and then internationally donald trump -- >> he said this out loud. >> giving the green light to vladimir putin, to kim jong-un, to xi, these are the three leaders he respects the most, praises the most, so this is a complete reshaping of western-style democracy, of jeffersonian democracy. washingtonian, whatever. he says if he is elected that will come to an end. >> joe, reading the articles that you described, one significant article was robert kagan's in "the "washington post" post" over the weekend that basically said we are on the road to dictatorship. what i found myself asking, what i'd ask my colleague anne is what americans and in particular u.s. public officials should do about it. these warnings increasingly are specific and i think have to be taken seriously. that was all the point of his article. this is coming at us. we either act or we will live with the consequences, so you've thought a lot about this. you're one of the best writers on these issues of preserving democracy. what would be a list of things you think people should do now to prevent this disaster from happening? >> so, there's a range of things depending on who you are. you know, if you're an ordinary person, you can join a civic organization. you can work on behalf of either on behalf of a republican candidate who would defeat trump or on behalf of the democratic party. you can involve yourself in local politics, you can -- you know, you can stop treating democracy as if it were secret you don't have to think about except once every four years and be involved every day but there are more specific things. i think that the republican officials who understand trump, who worked with trump, his cabinet officers, you know, his national security advisers who know how dangerous he is should, you know, begin to campaign now and go around the country, they should speak as a group. they should say, here's what the stakes are, you know, here's what this man does. you know, clearly, the republican, you know, the republican opposition should unite around one candidate, probably at this point nikki haley. if nikki haley were to lose she should think about running as a third party candidate to split the vote. people need to begin seriously how do we stop this? how do we prevent him from winning and communicate the danger to the american people? >> and, of course, jonathan lemire, the problem, before those who want to push back against donald trump is in the republican primary is a split field. you have nikki haley who is on the rise but chris christie facing increasing pressure to get out of the race to try to stop donald trump and, of course, ron desantis, whose campaign has been seen lagging badly also, not facing as much pressure, but a one-on-one between nikki haley and donald trump is actually something that donald trump fears the most and i will say a nikki haley nomination is something democrats fear the most, they do not want to run against nikki haley. so, how does the white house sort through all of this? >> well, the timing of this conversation is such where the next republican debate is tomorrow night and just four republicans left on that stage and these debates have seen as fairly irrelevant. we should watch christie and ramaswamy. can one woo the other, haley has momentum and would surge forward and become the clear trump alternative and maybe the field would begin to win know. desantis isn't going to get out before iowa and new hampshire. the primary calendar for republican, there's about a month between new hampshire and south carolina, and that might be the time where we see the field shrink to just trump and one other opponent. maybe that is haley and maybe that crystallizes his chance, that might be the republican party's best chance to move away from trump. but right now, you know, these are all sort of wish casting. he has a massive, massive lead and seems far more likely even if haley were to be defeated and trump the nominee she wouldn't challenge him as a third party candidate. she would get in line behind him and maybe become his vice president. will younger voters show up at the ballot box this november? we'll break it down next on "morning joe." he hits his mark —center stage—and is crushed by a baby grand piano. you're replacing me? customize and save with liberty bibberty. he doesn't even have a mustache. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ ♪ if there's pain when you try to poo ♪ ♪ and going sometimes feels like you ♪ ♪ pushed through a pineapple or two ♪ ♪ colace is the brand you need ♪ ♪ to soften stools, we're all agreed ♪ ♪ #2 should be easy to do ♪ trust colace to soften stools with no stimulants for comfortable relief. ♪♪ welcome back. some u.s. officials believe the biden administration is downplaying this weekend's attack against commercial invests in the red sea. on sunday houthi rebels in yemen launched missiles and drones against three separate ships. a u.s. navy warship fired back taking down three unmanned aerial systems. the defense department says it cannot assess whether the u.s. was the target but officials with knowledge tell politico u.s. naval forces are clearly under threat in the red sea. they argue the white house is downplaying the seriousness in an attempt to avoid escalating tensions in the middle east amid the israel/hamas war. >> david, what can you tell us? >> so, joe, i think two things are clear here, one is that the houthis are not deterred from attacking shipping in the red sea nor firing missiles at israel itself. sop of the most heaviest ones are coming from houthis in yemen and obvious the united states does not want to get into a wider war now with iran to stop this. i've been wondering whether there will be some kind of middle step, a quarantine on delivery of weapons to the houthis that would be enforced by the u.s. navy perhaps also an embargo on delivery by air. if nothing is done, these attacks are getting more and more dangerous by the day. >> let's turn back to the war in israel. richard engel is standing by for us in jerusalem. he is nbc news chief foreign correspondent. we're talking a few minutes ago about israel's continued push into southern gaza. what that means for civilians there, how hamas is responding, putting civilians between it and the israeli military. what are you hearing, and what are you seeing on the ground there. >> reporter: we still have two teams in southern gaza, and one team is in khan yunis, another further south in rafah, the main focus of the operations right now and the city of khan yunis. this began two months ago and started in the northern part of the gaza strip with strikes in and around gaza city and towns around gaza city and at the time, israel ordered palestinians to move south, and many of those palestinians moved to khan yunis even though there were occasional attacks, sometimes bloody attacks there and many people were displaced and relocated in that city. now khan yunis is under fire. they are near the city center and people are starting to leave anyway they can. they are leaving in cars, not a lot of fuel in gaza so they are leaving on bicycles, leaving on horse and donkey carts and headed to rafah, it is the end of the line, there is no place further south to go and the humanitarian conditions in rafah are dire. there's trash on the streets. there are hundreds of thousands of people crowded into what was effectively a small town, rafah, i've been to rafah, it normally has 300,000 people. it has many times more than that population right now, maybe 600,000, 700,000 and expecting the arrival of another 600,000 or 700,000 people from khan yunis so a possibility that in a small town that had 300 people, you could have 500,000 by the end of this week or next week and rafah simply can't sustain it. they don't have enough food. they don't have enough water. they don't have enough places to sleep. already people are sleeping out in the open, are sleeping wherever they can because there just aren't beds. there aren't homes, there aren't shelters and concern about the spread of communicable diseases and what many in rafah will tell you what they fear israel's goal is push them out of the country, push them out of the gaza strip entirely and drive them into egypt, which is something that egypt also fears, which is why egypt is keeping its border closed. so a very serious humanitarian situation in southern gaza escalating right now. what israel says it is doing, it is completely its mission and going where hamas is, and that hamas moved south with displaced people and moved to places where it could find safety and shelter and that israel believes it has no choice but to go after hamas leaders even if still surrounded by people. >> you started to answer my next question, which is why egypt hasn't opened up to refugees to allow more to come in in the ways european nations do with ukraine over the last couple of years like poland or lebanon or why other arab nations are not welcoming them who live in dire conditions. >> reporter: the egyptian -- this is a conflict that goes back decades, and longer than that depending on how you do the math and how you think about it, if it's religious terms it goes back a few thousand years but this particular conflict over gaza, we're talking about decades and the palestinians believe and egyptians believe that after this terrible attack, after this hamas atrocity that israel's secret undeclared mission is to empty out the gaza strip and destroy as much of it as they can in the process. israel today, the israeli military said it located 800 tunnel shafts so far by hamas and destroyed 500 of them and to drive people into egypt, in which case gaza would be no more. the people of gaza would become permanently displaced living in the sinai peninsula and that is something that egypt does not want. it is something that the people of gaza don't want. so, instead, we have this captive population, which is being moved around, shuffled from one place to the next that is under attack. and there's desperation growing in gaza. there's real fear, anger. i think for the people i've spoken to gaza and some of them i've known for years, i've never seen them this disillusioned, this disheartened and depressed but do not say that the solution is a long-term resettlement of gaza into egypt. >> combing up recap of our conversation with former congresswoman liz cheney. her warnings about the prospect of another trump presidency. that's straight ahead on "morning joe." hmmm... can this be more, squiggly? perfect! so now, do you have a driver's license? oh. what did you get us? with the click of a pen, you can a new volkswagen at the sign, then drive event. hurry in to lease a new 2023 all-electric id.4 for zero down, zero deposit, zero first month's payment, and zero due at 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(we did it) start today at godaddy.com ♪♪ a new poll released moments ago is revealing new insights into younger voters ahead of next year's election. the harvard youth poll shares several key findings including fewer young americans plan to vote no 2024 with most of the decline coming from young republicans and independents. president biden's advantage with younger voters narrows when potential independent candidates are introduced like robert f. kennedy jr. and joe manchin and americans who support a woman's right to choose are more likely to vote on abortion ballot measures. joining us director of polling at the university of politics at harvard university, john dell a volpe called "fight." great to talk to about it. overall what are you finding about the state of mind of the younger electorate. >> thanks, again, mika and joe, for having me. this is an opportunity we had to speak to a couple thousand young americans and a lot of conversation looking across a couple hundred young americans. president biden is in solid shape in a two-matchup with donald trump today. second thing, as you can see it gets much more complicated with multiple candidates in the field, specifically bobby ken nedy and abortion is very important, not just politically engage but deriving where they choose to live when they are ready to move and settle down in a career. >> john, let's look at some specifics on our first graphic. this is the future 18 to 29-year-olds plan to vote this time around. that's the fear of the biden campaign which is not that they'll leap to donald trump but they don't show up at all. as you look inside here, it is true that more republicans and independents say they won't vote so should they be feeling at least young democrats will go out and vote >> that's good news but, remember, more independents today than there were four years ago so people are disassociating with the democratic party, people of color and double-digital jiet -- and we talked about voter suppression. this is about voter depression and i think it's a challenge indicated campaign from the far right to depress young people's turnout in politic, right? they're depressed about views of government and depressed about the views of both parties and can see the effect at the rise of cynicism and less likely to participate. >> john, i think the biden campaign says, we're 11 months out, that they will be energized next summer, say, when they start to think about what's at stake if he becomes president again, if abortion rights continue to be rolled back. >> they feel like that will crystallize the choice once it's a choice, a or b and your polling suggests that young people think donald trump would do better handling the israel/hamas war than perhaps joe biden by 29-25%. some may be fueled by young voters. donald trump over the weekend said he's going to bring back his muslim ban. these numbers could change? >> that is less about donald trump's position and more about the plurality of young people who don't trust either one at this point to handle israel/hamas. i don't think it's a big endorsement for trump as we said that this is really about biden versus the other and we have a solid undecided and specifically on issue over issue over issue, they want to see more and see that democracy works and their vote mattered in 2020 with real evidence. >> we talked about abortion, one of your key findings, pro-choice americans motion likely to vote on that, ideally vote for candidates as well. >> we updated a series of questions on abortion. generally all is available on our website and seen a eight-point increase of overall support for abortion access jem and we ask fundamental there were a referendum or ballot in your state how likely would be be to participate, the pro-choice group is far more likely than other people to say they'll turn out on a local issue. >> so 0 borat, two-thirds, nearly two-thirds say legal access to reproductive health care is important when choosing where they live so obviously the issue of abortion is going to be important here. just to go back quickly, third party candidates. when you look at the way the vote gets split when you throw in the third party, rfk jr., maybe joe manchin as well, and what are young voters saying about being fed up with the two they were offered. >> we have increasing level of folks who self-identify as independent. they are by far the least likely to vote. that's why we're seeing a number of african americans and hispanic less likely to vote, one. and when we see a two-way race, it looks like 2020, it looks fairly normal in terms of what you would expect from younger people. if you enter cornell west and manchin and kennedy, it goes from 15 to 8 among registered voters and know what happened in wisconsin in 2016 as well, and the news of this poll i hi is regardless of the independent third party candidate they take more from biden's side among young voters than the trump side specifically bobby kennedy. >> some of these young viters are bringing up unsolicited the name of rfk jr. what do they say about him? >> he think he's different from the other two parties at this point. that's what they think and he is clearly conspiracy theorist but also i think a political tactician who understands the vulnerabilities in the electorate and when the democratic party and is aiming his message at them. if you don't have a place in either party, look at me. it's a year out, people are looking at him and it's dangerous for our democracy. >> is there a sense as to why young democrats would be interested in robert f. kennedy. he holds really out there views on a number of positions. certainly those in the biden camp are worried about cornell west and stein and manchin but think most will drop out. kennedy they have less of a feel over and some find he will hurt trump more. >> jonathan, i also looked at a variety of data points the last several years and every electorate we have a different composition of the youth vote, the 18 to 4-year-old young men are far more likely to identify as conservative or republican than the young men a cycle ago. this is the post-covid joe rogan barstool sports cohort here and a different kind of voter than we saw four years ago. coming up, "saturday night live's" kenan thompson is our guest with a new memoir packed with what he calls questionable parenting advice from a professional clown. "morning joe" is coming right back. bowel leakage is more common than you think. an expert physician recommended axonics therapy, and it gave me my life back. go to findrealrelief.com to get started. get back to doing the things you love! hey, brent! if you had to choose, would you watch paint dry or compare benefits plans? compare benefits. gusto makes it easier to find the right plan for my team. i think i'm going to need new glasses. no problem. you're covered. choose benefits without the mess. hi, i'm michael, i've lost 62 pounds on golo and i have kept it off. that's working with gusto. most of the weight that i gained was strictly in my belly which is a sign of insulin resistance. but since golo, that weight has completely gone away, as you can tell. thanks to golo and release, i've got my life and my health back. ♪♪ as house republicans appear closer to authorizing an impeachment inquiry into president biden, oversight committee james comer has president's son hunter biden was funneling money to his father. >> the house oversight committee is releasing subpoenaed bank records that show hunter biden's business entity made direct monthly payments to joe biden. >> yeah. >> oh my god. >> here's the problem with that. >> what? >> public sourcing, showed they were car loan repayments. >> was it a rav? what kind of car was it? a ford raptor. >> was it a ford raptor? >> a ford raptor. >> or could have been a hot rod lincoln. i don't know, you ride around in that hot rod lincoln in tennessee. >> the "washington post" reports the transactions were hunter paying back money he borrowed for a ford raptor truck. >> that's a crime right there. >> i question the truck choice. you always go for the f-150. >> those payments came two years after joe biden was out of office as the vice president. hunter biden's attorney released this statement, quote, the truth is hunter's father helped him when he was struggling financially due to his addiction and couldn't secure financing for a truck. when hunter was able to, he paid his father back and took over the payments himself. >> we have another one. rnc chair ronna mcdaniel is accusing president biden and the white house of suppressing news coverage about his son hunter biden's laptop. >> this sounds serious. >> this was a biden white house that was meeting with social media companies dictating what they put on their platforms before the 2020 election. that, to me, is suppression. >> willie, the fact that joe biden was so corrupt, so evil, so powerful that he could suppress this information, his white house could suppress this information even when he was not in the white house, means he has like some x-men slash avengers powers wreck warp time or something. maybe it is more of an avengers multiverse thing where he's not really president but he is. i think ronna knows that. i'm just wondering why ronna said the biden white house did it while biden wasn't in the white house and nobody corrected her. >> joe biden was not president of the united states in 2020 ahead of the presidential election. he was trying to become president. there was no biden white house to suppress the free press. donald trump, of course, was still president at that point. what strikes me is how bad they are at this. if you're going to try to claim there is a biden crime family, an international syndicate that joe biden is directing and enriching himself, you'd think over all these years, they would have at least produced something that is credible. james comer presented three $1300 car payments. let's say that were a scandal. turns it it without. but say it were. that's what you're got compared to donald trump trying to overturn the 2020 election and planning to do worse if he's elected again. >> jonathan lemire, they keep shooting themselves in the foot. she's trying out a dr. strange theory that somehow he rearranged time and biden was president before biden was president. how do you say that on tv and say, oh, this shows how corrupt he is, and nobody corrects him? 2020, he wasn't president. >> no. unless joe biden also has the ability to time travel, this seems pretty implausible. but it's on the front page of the "new york post" today, fox media pushing these story lines. they're so shameless. there is no "there" there, but they're going to keep doing it. the impeachment inquiry does seem to be proceeding on track. still ahead, according to our next guest, if donald trump wins the election, he will commit the first time of his second term at noon on inauguration day. ♪♪ last look at lax at 5:59 a.m. on the west coast. welcome to the fourth hour of "morning joe." it's now 6:00 a.m. on the west coast and 9:00 a.m. in the east. we'll dive right into the news. the israeli military is calling for more evacuations from parts of southern gaza as it widens its offensive aimed at eliminating hamas terrorists. chief foreign correspondent richard engel has the latest. >> reporter: the israeli military this morning is launching more attacks in southern gaza and ordering hundreds of thousands of palestinians who live in the city of khan younis to move further south. the chief of staff of the israeli military says the operations in southern gaza will be just as intense as what northern gaza has seen so far. after the deadly massacre by hamas, israel began its war two months ago attacking in northern gaza. it ordered palestinians at the time to move south. khan younis now under attack, is in the south. the only place left to go is rafah, right on the egyptian border. this is rafah now, massively overcrowded with not nearly enough food or places to sleep, no fresh water and a high risk of disease. where are we supposed to go from here? into the sea, asked this man? many palestinians believe israel's real mission is to destroy hamas and expel palestinians from gaza. the egyptian government suspects the same and has sealed the border, leaving palestinians penned in, shuffled from place to place and under attack. israel says it's doing all it can to avoid civilian casualties, that the evacuation orders are designed to keep palestinians out of the line of fire as it attacks hamas fighters and leaders who move south to hide among the civilian population. >> we're pursuing hamas wherever hamas is hiding. our war is against hamas, not against the people of gaza. >> reporter: in israel, the war against hamas is broadly popular, considered by many to be the only response after hamas killed more than 1200 israelis and kidnapped more than 240 hostages. hamas is still holding more than 130 hostages, the united states saying on monday the group is refusing to turn overall of the women hostages and is calling for an investigation into reports hamas used rape as a weapon of war. >> if they don't want those women to be able to talk about what happened to them during their time in custody. >> richard engel reporting. back here at home, the "new york times" story titled "why a second trump presidency might be more radical than his first, outlining the dangers of a second trump term. earlier we spoke with former republican congresswoman liz cheney out today with a new book titled "oath and honor, a memoir and a warning." why she believes trump remains the frontrunner for the republican nomination. >> i think there are a combination of things going on. i think, first of all, there are millions of people around the country who feel like they are not heard by the government, who have felt like they don't have a voice. donald trump has managed to convince them dishonestly that he could be their voice. so i think that reflects a certain percentage of the republican party. it's not a huge percentage. certainly the people in congress who believe what he's saying is very, very small. but he's enabled and appeased and collaborated with by people who know better in leadership in the republican party today. that's part of what makes him so dangerous, is people have been willing to look the other way and go along even when they know that's wrong. >> it once was they would look the other way because they don't want to lose the base or their seats in congress. but you write that even during the trump impeachment time that some members, maybe even many, were scared for their own safety if they were to vote for impeachment. tell us more about what, what you heard. >> it was widespread in many instances. people could say it directly. the knowledge that if they did the right thing, if they publicly opposed trump or voted for his impeachment that they would be putting themselves and potentially their family at risk. i talk in the book about the vote, the first time that the republicans attempted to oust me from my conference chair position where we prevailed significantly, it was a secret ballot. i suspect that had impeachment been a secret ballot, for example, the numbers would have been many more republicans would have voted in favor of impeachment. the fact that we're living in a situation where we have to think about a secret violent because people fear violence, that's not a place we've been before in this country. >> i'm curious how you assess the future of the republican party. if there's no room right now for liz cheney or mitt romney or if john mccain is going to be trashed by this current version of the party, if as you write in the book they defy everything that ronald reagan stood for, what does the republican party look like going forward as you see it? >> it certainly right now has abandoned those principles. i joined the party during the era of ronald reagan. today the party looks much more like a cult of personality, frankly. donald trump is not a conservative. he's not been a republican very long. the seriousness of it is that the party has walked away from the constitution. so i don't know if our party can be saved. it may be that we need to build a new party. i think those issues have to come after this 2024 cycle, because the focus has to be just completely on making sure we don't return donald trump to the white house. >> this leads, liz, to the question that i know you and a lot of conservatives have been troubled by every day, how do you beat trump? how do you beat trump in four? what is your advice to democrats? what's your advice to independents? what's your advice to people running the biden campaign? what do they need to do to beat trump? >> well, what we have to do to beat trump is be unified. we have the numbers on our side in terms of people across the political spectrum who will not support him, but we cannot get into a situation where people think there are other issues that matter more than this one. we have plenty of time to debate and to argue about all of those issues we care deeply about, but that is not where we are now. where we are now, we've got to be focused on defeating him. >> part of our conversation earlier this morning with former republican congresswoman liz cheney. joining us now, the president of the national action network and host of msnbc's "politics nation" reverend al sharpton and staff writer from "the atlantic" david frum. david's piece is entitled "the danger ahead". you write in part, quote, if he wins the election, trump will commit the first crime of his second term at noon on inauguration day, his oath to defend the constitution of the united states will be a perjury. the prede would be an outlaw ornis way to becoming an outlaw. for his own survival, he would have to destroy the rule of law. if trump is defeated, the united states can proceed in its familiar perfect way to deal with the many big problem of our time. stopping trump would not represent progress on any of those agenda items. but stopping trump would preserve the possibility of progress by keeping alive the constitutional democratic structure of the united states. a second trump presidency, however, is the kind o shock that would overwhelm allther issues. it would mark the turn onto a rkpath. one of these rifts between before and after that a society can never reverse. even if the harm is contained, it can never be fully undone, as the harm of january 6th, 2021, can never be undone. the long tradition of peaceful transition of power was stopped that day. the schemes and plots of a second trump term may be defeated too. yet, every future dictator wil know a president can attempt a coup and, if stopped, can still return to office to try again. david, the dangers are so many to those of us who truly understand where this is going, i think that's half the problem, because there's normalization happening, which is one way on the road to autocracy and fascism. the other is overwhelming the society with information, with lies, with disinformation, with so much. and we have tv networks and podcasts and even so-called news networks that help inflame this firehose of falsehoods, that between normalization and overwhelming a society is the danger you're talking about. >> let's think about that moment on noon inauguration day 2025. suppose trump is the person taking the oath. at that point donald trump will be at the center of four criminal indictments, he may already be on trial. he may already be convicted. there's nothing that stopped a convicted person being elected president. in new york he's going to have a civil trial to dissolve all his companies for their crimes. what does he do after the inauguration? his first priority is going to be to bust up the legal system of the united states. because if he doesn't, he probably goes to prison. that's priority number one, wrecking the legal system of the united states. richard nixon lost the presidency because he was accused, because evidence emerged that he had tried to use the power of the united states to stop a criminal investigation. we only knew about it because of the smoking gun tape. donald trump is going to do that in public. he's anticipating protests. so his second plan is to send the military a bunch of illegal orders to use the force to suppress dissent in american cities, which is not something the military is designed to do or will want to do. he'll confront the military almost immediately, do we obey the orders of the president, or are these orders illegal? >> this isn't 2016. he's got a record. we've seen it. now he's telling us he's going to go even further. without some of those people who were there, mattis, kelly. those people are long gone who prevented trump from doing his worst and won't be back in a second term. donald trump has been explicit in telling us what kind of president he's going to be. if you watch one of his rallies, there's no talk of policy. it's all about retribution. >> no. he is saying out loud exactly what he's going to do. i think many of us are caught up on things that are totally immaterial to the threat of the whole democratic process, that donald trump is not only going to do, but he's going to pardon himself and possibly others of real crimes. i think it was chris christie who said accurately, he may be convicted before the election, which means he'd be the first american president that couldn't even vote for himself. we're telling young people register to vote, but we're going to elect somebody who couldn't vote because of a criminal record. we are at a real cross section of whether we're going to be a democracy or autocracy or dictatorship. >> david, let's do the hypothetical that donald trump wins again. we assume in this case, republicans probably capture at least one house of congress as well. the heritage foundation is already hard at work at repopulating the federal government with those who are loyal to him. the supreme court is deeply conservative. he appointed three of those justices. what guardrails or barriers would remain? how could he be slowed down in the second term? >> i don't think we get to any of those things, because his administration will be chaos. day one or two he's either going to try to fire much of the justice department or he's going to try to pardon himself. you don't have to wait for a conviction to be pardoned. you can pardon someone in the middle of a proceeding. donald trump will be thinking about pardoning himself. think about what that means. if a president can pardon himself for a crime, that means the president can walk into the bedroom of the white house, shoot the first lady dead and pardon himself or even write the pardon in advance, then shoot the first lady dead. it means the vice president can walk into the oval office, shoot the president dead, pardon himself now that he's president. maybe there's impeachment, but none of them will face criminal liability. that's the logic of self-pardon. the president can literally commit murder in the white house. people will be in the streets, congress will be in an uproar. nothing will get done. the military will be confronted with illegal orders. right now we're confronting a venezuelan army mobilizing to invade another western hemisphere country. we have a war in ukraine that congress is blockaing funds for. we have a crisis in the middle east. all of these enemies of the united states gathering. the united states will be paralyzed because the president will be claiming he's immune to the law. we'll have a breakdown in the authority of the united states. we'll have an instant impeachment crisis. i wrote an article in 2017 predicting the first trump term would put us on the path to autocracy. the second trump term puts us on the path to chaos and predation of america by foreign forces. >> "the atlantic" is online now. it is worth a read if you care think about country. coming up, we'll talk to andrew ross sorkin about what's driving deep staffing cuts at a major music streaming company. plus, the supreme court case that could redefine what is considered income in america. e considered income in america the subway series is taking your favorite to the next level! like the #20. the elite chicken and bacon ranch. built with rotisserie-style chicken and double cheese. i love what i'm seeing here. that's some well-coached chicken. you done, peyton? the subway series just keeps gettin' better. first time i connected with kim, she told me that the subway series her husband had passed. and that he took care of all of the internet connected devices in the home. i told her, “i'm here to take care of you.” connecting with kim... made me reconnect with my mom. it's very important to keep loved ones close. we know that creating memories with loved ones brings so much joy to your life. a family trip to the team usa training facility. i don't know how to thank you. i'm here to thank you. welcome back to "morning joe." that is a live picture of san francisco, 6:20 in the morning, home of the first place san francisco 49ers. >> that was very impressive. they thumped the eagles. spotify is laying off 17% of its workforce, about 1500 employees according to a message posted on the company's blog by its ceo. it's the third round of layoffs this year for the music streaming giant. let's bring in andrew ross sorkin. what's going on at spotify? >> the podcasting world not doing nearly as well as it used to. the rose has fallen off the bloom, if you will. big questions about the future of the business, just the economics of podcasting and the growth prospects of the music business writ large have raised some real questions. what's so interesting about this layoff decision is how it came about and how it was communicated. lots of folks looking at this letter that the ceo of spotify wrote, a very lengthy letter. often times when firing staff you get a short letter saying this is what we're doing. this is actually a very heart felt explanation of why he was doing what he was doing. he says we debated making smaller reductions, but considering the gap between our financial goals and the current operational cost, i decided we had to do it now. he also said something a lot of people are thinking about. today we still have too many people dedicated to supporting work, doing work around the work rather than contributing opportunities with real impact. that sentence in particular people have focused on. there's a lot of people who for better or worse do work around the work. >> he also wrote, quote, being lean is not just an option, but a necessity at this point for the business. let's turn to moody's. looks like cutting china's credit outlook. what does that tell us about the economy there? >> the economy is china has been quite challenged. the moody's downgrade is representative of that. the bigger question is what does china do about it and what does it mean politically inside of china? in the larger geopolitical picture, it also relates to the picture of whether you think china is going to lash out, if you will, or take over taiwan. i spoke with the president of taiwan last week. she believed that because of the economic challenges china is having that you will not see an invasion or takeover. it's raising a lot of questions, though, this morning. got to ask you about the supreme court case that most people are not following but could end up impacting their lives, moore versus the united states. it's a question of income and what can be taxed. >> this is one of the most fascinating lawsuits and cases being brought in front of the supreme court. it has to do with the idea of realized gains. anybody who has ever bought a stock or bought a home and sold it for profit has what's called realized gains. they sold it, they got cash for it. there's been a big question in america around wealth taxes and things like that where you wouldn't realize a gain, meaning, you'd be taxed on what you have, how much is in your bank account, if you will. in 2017 under the trump administration, one of the tax laws that went into effect effectively taxed unrealized gains, which means gains that weren't completely realized. this was for foreign companies, people who owned stakes in things outside of the country in the last 30 years. it was a one-time tax. but what's happened is that one-time tax is being brought in front of the supreme court. if the court sides it's unconstitutional to tax, quote, unrealized gains, it would put a monkey wrench into our tax system and larger questions around wealth taxes and the like. >> do we have any sense where the conservative court may be leaning on this one? >> the current sense is the court will try to look at this narrowly and not make a broader case of it. but i think there's a lot of experts on both sides and they really haven't tipped their hand just yet. that's why so many people are watching this case. >> thank you. next, the united nations being accused of responding much too slowly to the sexual violence committed by hamas against women in its october 7th attack on israel. we're travelling all across america, talking to people about their hearts. ooh, take this exit. how's the heart? i feel like it's good. you feel like it's good? how do you know when it's time to check in on your heart? how do you know? let me show you something. it looks like a credit card, but it is the kardiamobile card. that is a medical-grade ekg. want to see how it works? yeah. put both thumbs on there. that is your heart coming from the kardiamobile card. wow! with kardiamobile card, you can take a medical-grade ekg in just 30 seconds, from anywhere. kardiamobile card is proven to detect atrial fibrillation, one of the leading causes of stroke. and it's the only personal ekg that's fda-cleared to detect normal heart rhythm, bradycardia and tachycardia. how much do you think that costs? probably $500. $99. oh, really? you could carry that in your wallet. of course you could carry it in your wallet, right? yes, yes. kardiamobile card is just $79 during our holiday sale, that's a $20 savings. get kardiamobile card for yourself or a loved one today at kardia.com or amazon. on the morning of october 7th, hamas brutalized, bound, murdered and beheaded and sexual assaulted young women and girls in israel. as a feminist and activist, i have stood shoulder to shoulder with women my entire adult life. but then on october 7th, i suddenly found myself completely alone. the champions i had stood next to so many times through so many injustices just disappeared, peers, friends, universities and fellow leaders who still remain silent. you have made the deliberate choice to look the other way. it took you 50 days to condemn this gender-based violence and another seven to utter a single word about the terrorists that perpetrated them. when we commit to speaking out for women and girls, that means all women and girls. [ applause ] >> that was an activist speaking yesterday at the united nations. her remarks come as the u.n. women's rights body has been criticized by many for not condemning the terrost group's violent abuse of israeli women fast enough, only doing so eight weeks after the attack. she joining us now. thank you for everything that you said and everything you're doing. you spoke yesterday along with former secretary of state hillary clinton, senator kirsten gillibrand and many others. you were very personal and powerful with your remarks. what was the message you were hoping to send to members? >> thank you for having me. you know, it's been really, really heartbreaking watching people that i admire and respect just not show up for these women and girls. we know what happened to them. we have enough videos and enough testimony. the terrorists admitted to it. they filmed it on their go pros and live streamed it. these women deserve dignity and they're deserved to be believed. as feminists, we've learned to believe women. that really does mean all women. to have their stories not supported by women's organizations, feminists, universities, people i really admire and respect is deeply heartbreaking. they need to show up. many of these women didn't survive. the brutality against them was beyond anything that any of us could have imagined. part of my call to action that day is, it's very clear you haven't showed up for many reasons. now is the time to prove that you care. now is the time to speak up. i shared a little bit about my childhood, really just to draw the parallel of feeling silence. we aren't anymore. we all have the privilege to speak out and condemn the silence. >> why do you think the delay happened? for so many to speak out unequivocally for what happened to these women, what do you want the u.n., major women's organizations, foreign governments, the u.s. government to do? >> i think there are many people who don't like jews. i think anti-semitism plays a big part in this. i think there are people afraid to condemn any actions that happened against israels and jewish women because they're anti-zionist. there are no two sides to what happened to these women and girls. there's no conversation. what happened to them was horrible. we know that it happened and it must be condemned. we are not here to deny their experiences. we are not here to politicize their experience. we cannot act like they are undeserving of our support. we cannot be complicit in emboldening the perpetrators. we have to condemn these war crimes. we have to condemn gender-based violence when we see it. and we've seen it. it's time that everyone hands up and does the right thing. >> seems like such an obvious request. it's one that so many people have fallen down on and not stepped up to. we were talking about the palestinian people that deserve dignity and a good life. you can disagree with the way israel is prosecuting the war, too many civilian casualties, all the things we talk about every morning. but this is something else. this is a very specific thing we know happened, because we have video evidence and testimony from survivors. it's beyond most of us to understand what you just explained, which is that people are willing to somehow say, okay, it happened, but, or to ignore the fact that it happened at all. have you spoken to some of the people behind the scenes and expressed your disappointment and also hear their explain why they don't feel publicly comfortable condemning what's so easy to condemn? >> yeah. i've had this conversation many times. i look at what happened on october 7th and what happened after. what happened on october 7th cannot be conflated with these other stories. what happened that day was unacceptable. it was unprovoked. israel did not ask for these war. these people were at home asleep with their children or they were at a peace festival dancing with their friends. anything you say beyond that is acting like there is a reason or excuse for something like that to happen, and there isn't. what happened is unacceptable and it must be condemned. hamas is a terrorist group. what happened after israel's response is a completely different conversation. we can have all the conversations about the geopolitical conflict and the middle east. happy to have that conversation. none of that has anything to do with what israelis suffered that day. it's completely unacceptable that those messages are being mixed right now. >> there's no question what happened on october 7 should be separate from what has come since then. some democrats have had real trouble talking about what happened and not mixing it up with the geopolitics of the situation. we're seeing it in polls really dividing the democratic party right now. >> it is, to me, disgraceful. if you cannot take a moral position on civilians being killed, women being raped, then how do you take a position later on other issues? on october 7th, when i reached out and said this was wrong, people that i work with in civil rights say that's touchy. touchy about what? how do you stand up for anything if you don't stand up for everything? i respect what you've done. i talked yesterday and had a zoom call with the mother and father of one of the hostages. what i didn't know and i feel bad i didn't know is that hamas is not only holding israelis and jews, they have two people from tanzania, one from south africa. they're holding blacks. they do not care about women, blacks, anybody else. yet everybody seems to be rallying around that. tell us how isolated that makes you feel that people that you marched with and have in many ways championed the cause of feminism that are now for whatever reasons backing up? they're champions of me too here, but there are too few there? >> i never did those things for some quid pro quo because i wanted people to have my back. i did it because it was the right thing to do. i quit my job and advocated to have reunification of families at the border, because it was the right thing to do. i was just in israel. i went to the kibbutz and saw the destruction. the pain was the point. these people are acting like they're trying to see the best in hamas. it defies any form of logic. it is a terrorist organization. they killed so many arab israelis that are muslim. they don't care. they go on television every single chance they have and keep repeating they're going to do this again and again. they're not going to stop with the jews. they want the eradication of israel and jews, and then they come for the west. to see leaders not recognize how dangerous this is, again, i lived in iran, i know how dangerous these people are. it really is disturbing that they're supporting this. this is the kibbutz that i went to. the destruction was the worst. so many of these people were there to work on peace. it was the worst thing i've ever seen, truly. >> you have been working 24/7 to try and shine a light on not just your message, but on the entire situation and to promote understanding, a real understanding of the complexity of this. while in israel, you spoke with a mother whose 21-year-old son was taken hostage when he was attending the music festival in southern israel. here's a bit of that conversation. i want to show it. >> my son went to the party, the festival for peace and love. saturday morning, the 7th of october, he calls me in the morning and he said to me, mom, they closed the party. [indiscernible] on the day we published his picture on facebook and after someone recognized him from a video clip that hamas published. he was lying on the floor with four other guys. i understand at this moment my life going to change. it won't be the same. i can't sleep all the time thinking about him. i have to fight for him. >> i want to thank you for all of your work and your continued work in the days and weeks to come. come back soon and keep us posted. thank you for coming on this morning. next hour, fbi director christopher wray will urge surveillance to land on the president's desk each day. msnbc will cover the hearing throughout the morning. we'll be right back with more "morning joe." right back with "morning joe." i work for the city of new york as a police administrator. i oversee approximately 20 people and my memory just has to be sharp. i always hear people say, you know, when you get older, you know, people lose memory. i didn't want to be that person. i decided to give prevagen a try. my memory became much sharper. i remembered more! i've been taking prevagen for four years now. prevagen. at stores everywhere without a prescription. in the u.s. we see millions of cyber threats each year. i've been taking prevagen for four years now. that rate is increasing as more and more businesses move to the cloud. - so, the question is... - cyber attack! as cyber criminals expand their toolkit, we must expand as well. we need to rethink... next level moments, need the next level network. 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(engine accelerating) (texting clicks) (tires squeal) (glass shattering) (loose gravel clanking) why are we the only birds heading this way? ♪ ♪ what is that? duck à l'orange. what's duck à l'orange? it's you, with l'orange on top. ♪ what's up with that what's up with that ♪ ♪ what's up i said what's up ♪ ♪ somebody tell me what is up with that ♪ ♪ if you down by the rockefeller center christmas tree ♪ ♪ you best get the hell out my way ♪ >> ted lasso working hard back there, wasn't he? >> ted lasso pumping back there. >> that is kenan thompson, the man who holds the record as the longest running cast member of "snl," now in his 21 of the season doing memorable bits like that. he's out now with a new memoir which goes into his time on the show with those two decades. the time he nearly quit. he also details what life is ke off stage, strike himself as a 40 something regular guy and suburban dad of two young girls. his new book out today titled "when i was your age: life lessons, funny stories and questionable parenting advice from a professional clown." kenan joins us now. so good to see you. >> this is a cool environment. all in 30 rock together. >> shoot down the elevator. >> basically. >> we put you to work doing bits with rev. >> already, off the top, man. thanks for being cool like that, man. appreciate that. >> kenan, when i say 21 seasons at "snl," what does that mean to you, besides the fact you have staying power, people love seeing you every saturday night. for you, what does that mean? >> it means a lot. the 21 i grew up with was dominique wilkins. i remember that number being very powerful. it just feels like a long journey and very special place, you know? i've been lucky enough and blessed enough to stay that long and, like, get the job in the first place, you know what i'm saying? it has been a journey and, like, the best times of my life basically. like my ongoing college. i didn't finish college. >> we were watching d'andre there. do you have sketches for you that are most memorable? your fans have ones they love the most. are there some you love the most? >> yeah, scared straight is up there, great betty white, what's up with that, black jeopardy, you know, big papi. >> personal favorite here. >> there you go. >> you also, i know about you as busy as you are upstairs here, you're always doing something. you were doing the show on nbc for a long time, flying back and forth. you got the new "trolls" movie out, "good burger 2" is out streaming. if i missed anything, correct me. now you're writing memoirs. how do you keep yourself so constantly working? >> you just stay busy, you know, like try to multitask and try to keep a lot of things kind of, you know, going because everything kind of schedules itself out. the book was a five-year process, you know what i mean? and "trolls," a year and a half. and "good burger" we shot over the summer and happened to all start coming out at the same time. so that's a blessing. it makes me seem like i'm a lot busier than i am. but i do like to, you know, try to dabble in a bunch of little things. >> let's talk more about the book. what inspired you to write it? particularly at a moment of your life where you are so busy? >> thank you. >> and what are some things you wanted to tell? >> i feel like a lot of people do them. a lot of my heros in the game have written books and done well. and it is like a peek inside to the actual person. a lot of the times i don't really get to be myself, you know what i mean? it is very performative when you see me, on a talk show or actual show or whatever. so i thought, you know, this might be a good peek into who i really am for people, because it has been like a 30-year career at this point kind of thing. and just felt like i had enough to talk about that would serve a book. >> talking about who you really are. i met you 20 years ago, running for president and i hosted "saturday night live," we did a skit, jimmy fallon was still on there, and we did a skit about -- around this time of year, about three wise men going, following the star in the east. >> that's right. >> i watched you grow back and forth. but what impressed me was what i found grounded you. and i wanted to know if you covered that in the book. i was rushing through an airport one day, lady stops me and i said, yes, ma'am, and keep going, she said, i don't want a selfie, i'm kenan's mother, i almost missed the plane talking to your mother. talk about how you were grounded by your family and your mother that made you kenan. >> absolutely. i mean, as you can see, my mom is a real one. my whole family is like that. i talk about it in the book. humble beginnings, they come, two young kids from virginia, took their kids and raised them in atlanta. and my whole family in virginia and all my cousins, like, they're real normal people. and that was my whole life growing up until i was 15. that was another advantage was, yes, i was young, but i wasn't too young. i was pretty established in who i was as a person, i guess. by the time i was 15, i loved my family. i was very close to, you know, the experiences i had. i don't come from a whole lot of actors or musicians or anybody like that. i was the first one to do it. my dad sang, he sang kind of at church and, like, in the army and stuff like that, you know what i mean, but nobody knows, like, their names. i'm the first one to get famous in the family. so, it was easy for me to kind of keep it real. because the holidays was what i preferred. it was, like, my comfort zone. lynchburg, virginia, my comfort zone. yeah, it is a real place. >> as we watch a little footage of the sketch you were talking about here, these are three wise men. look at tracy on the left, rev in the middle. >> they brought tracy back to do this skit. >> you also continue the family tradition with your beautiful daughters. >> yes. >> and a experience a lot of well known people have is they're kids and you're just dad and they don't realize what you do for a living until they realize you were a voice in "trolls" and they were impressed finally. >> i got them with the "trolls." tiny diamond nailed it. they discovered "good burger." they're at that age where they know what i do. but they're not impressed. it is more so about what's going on in their world and i'm here to support that. shoutout to the girl dads. >> there you go. busy man. dad is number one job. the new book "when i was your age: life lessons, funny stories and questionable parenting advice from a professional clown" is on sale now. this week, "snl," adam driver hosting, with musical guest olivia rodrigo. that's a big one. >> that's a welcome back to them both. >> there we go. kenan thompson, great to see you. congratulations on the book. >> thank you very much. good to see you all. enjoy the morning. i know you got a lot to discuss. i'll leave you to it. >> two of the three wise men at the table. that does it for us this morning. ana cabrera picks up the coverage right now. right now on "ana cabrera reports," a new warning from the u.n. about a hellish scenario inside gaza as israeli forces intensify their attack on the southern strip. is there anywhere safe left for civilians to flee? the president of israel isaac herzog will join us live from tel aviv this hour. plus, three university presidents set to testify on capitol hill. the heads of harvard,

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