second trump term. plus, it's not just gaza. the west bank is in flames as israeli attacks escalate. my conversation with palestinian policy decision -- and why a pack is raising money to try to get rid of the squad. the man who literally look wrote the book on them, ryan grim, will join me live. nearly three years ago, in february, 2021, i launched the show an msnbc right here, live on a sunday night, with a warning about how donald trump and the maga gop were threatening our democracy and how journalists needed to wake up to that threat. speak out about that threat. watch. >> people sometimes say journalists shouldn't be biased. no, journalists should have a bias. a bias towards democracy. we should be proudly pro democracy and proud to call ourselves democrats. small d democrats. >> nearly three years later, i worry that too many journalists, too many pundits, to many in our media have yet to take that mission statement urgently or seriously enough. even as a disgraced, defeated, twice impeached, four times indicted insurrection inciting ex president runs again for the white house and even leads joe biden in multiple polls. just think about the past few weeks, in which the new york times revealed that a second trump term when involves sweeping raids, giant camps, and mass deportations. the past few weeks in which the washington post revealed that trump was prepared for a second term in office by name in the vigils he wants to investigate or prosecute, and his associates drafting plans to potentially enact the surrection act on his first day in office to all him to deploy the military against civil demonstrations. the past few weeks, in which trump threatened to go after this network, msnbc, once he's back in power, and repeatedly offered to his political opponents as vermin, echoing not see propaganda. do you think the wider media in this country over the past few weeks has sufficiently conveyed the extent of the threat facing america from the second trump term? i've spent enough time in energy addressing and sharing these plans and remarks from the former and possibly future president? you, because you watch the show or because you watch -- the prospects of a second trump authoritarian term in office. but are your friends, your coworkers, your neighbors, your kids sufficiently concerned? appropriately aware? how many of them even know about trump calling millions of americans vermin? do you think it got the same coverage as hillary clinton saying deplorables in 2016? or have we become numb to the trumpian threat? have we normalized it? have we continued to grade trump and his authoritarian acolytes on a curve? have we become the fraud in the boiling fascist plot? in fact, forget the past few weeks. just consider what donald trump was saying, ranting yesterday, in a speech in iowa, that the elections in this country are so rigged, apparently, that they weren't rigged, and through divine supervision, he, trump, when california and new york and illinois. no, really. >> but i think if you had a real election and jesus came down and got came down and said, i'm gonna be the script keeper here, i think we'd win their. i think we'd win in illinois, and i think we'd win in new york. >> so, there was, as ever, the big lie. the dangerous delusional authoritarian big lie that you just heard ovation. there was also the casual races threat of voter intimidation and cities with large black populations. >> so the most important part of what's coming up is to guard the vote. and you should go into detroit, and you could go into philadelphia, and you should go into some of these places, atlanta, and you should go into some of these places, and we've gotta watch those votes when they come in. >> there was the now predictable praise and admiration for foreign dictators. >> can you imagine president xi, who's a piece of granite, he's tough and smart, he's at the top of his game -- >> and are very stable genius who brags about being able to read of prompter better than sleepy joe biden even ended up accidentally telling the truth about the threat he poses to american democracy when he misread his prompter. >> we've been waging an all out war in american democracy. >> yes. yes, he has. and yet, that fact, that undeniable, unavoidable fact, the trump has been waging a war on american democracy, hasn't been given the significance and attention and concern that it deserves. what does it seem like the person the most concerned about the threat of a second trump presidency as, of all people, republican liz cheney? >> people who say, well, if he's elected, it's not that dangerous because we have all these checks and balances, don't fully understand the extent to which the republicans in congress today have been co-opted. one of the things that we see happening today is a sort of sleepwalking into dictatorship in the united states. >> i agree 100 percent with liz cheney, and now, i did not think those would be words that would ever come out of my mouth. still, too many people, journalists, citizens, politicians, have decided to turn a blind eye to trump's rhetoric, trump's threats, trump's plans for a second term. have pretended to be more concerned about joe biden's age or the threat of inflation, enough decided to treat this coming election as just another normal presidential election. it's madness. it's dangerous, denialist, madness. and i'm sorry, but it ends in only one place. the end of american democracy. don't take my word for it. for once, take donald trump's. joining me now are jason stanley, professor of philosophy at yale university, an expert on fascism, and coauthor of the book the politics of language. and, molly jong-fast, most of the fast politics podcast and a special correspondent for vanity fair. thank you both for joining me. jason, liz cheney says we're sleepwalking into a dictatorship, but correct me if i'm wrong -- it's not gonna be the kind of dictatorship with concentration camps and martial law overnight, is it? that's not what we're gonna get. we're gonna get trump borrowing from the abend playbook in hungary, from the -- what would that look like here in america in terms of his use of the doj, or the irs, or his approach to the media and universities? >> so, he'll be targeting media and targeting universities. viktor orban targeted central year peña ferocity and drove out from hungary the best university in that hunger -- marxists, lgbt supporters, and vilified them in those terms. he forced media companies to sell themselves to his friends using tax framework and the courts. so we can expect that. we're already seeing this kind of attack on universities and schools throughout the country. that's why it's so ironic that, as everything trump does, it's so hypocritical for him to talk about his opponents attacking free speech. that's what we're gonna see. the first thing is we're gonna see speech critical speech being targeted by political operatives and the judicial system. >> molly, the media advocacy an activist group, media matters for america, this week di a study showing that t b broadcast networks provided 18 times more coverage of clinton's 2016 deployed as comment than trump's 2023 vermin remark. his fascist rhetoric has all but become normalized, has it not? >> so, i think there's a problem with journalists that we're seeing, which is the sort of normalcy bias. right? they want to treat things as normal, and they're worried about looking partisan. i'm talking about straight news journalists, not really opinion journalists. they're worried about looking partisan, so they understate things in order to not seem hysterical. and so, what happens is the road to fascism is literally lined with stories that understate the urgency of the situation. and if you look back at old reporting from the new york times pre-hit layer, you know, there's similar staff. hit lair hideaway in the clouds, right? i think the larger problem here is that the mainstream media is not built to be able to sort of protect democracy from fascism. so when it comes down the line, they don't know what to do with it. that's what we saw again and again. and what happened with hillary clinton is that -- so focused on the odds that they forgot about the stakes. >> indeed. and in terms of the stakes and what donald trump stands for, and who stands with him, jason, i want to put up this image from yesterday in iowa, where trump was literally prayed over by a group of supporters. i want to be clear here. i have no objection to prayer. i'm a believer myself, and i think it's fine to have people of faith and politics. what's disturbing is the cultish nature of support for trump, and this idea from his supporters that he has some sort of instrument of god's will, god's wrath. and i wonder, jason, how does that fit with the traditional fascist playbook? >> well, the leader plays this very particular role in fascism. the leader embodies the nation. donald trump embodies the nation for christian nationalists. christian nationalists want this to be a christian country, a white christian country, or, for many non white americans, a christian country, and trump is the religious father, as it was, the god ordained person to lead them. it's very common in fascist mythology that while the leader plays this very specific role, the leader is the person whom all authority is given. they have the authority over truth. they have authority over factuality. and your devotion to him is absolute. if you want to see what this looks like for business, look at a country like russia. we know that trump is gonna fill all the commerce department with loyalists. all these departments upon which business depends, with loyalists whose subservience is only to him. this is where all the organizations just become subservient to the leader. it's not good for business. it's just loyalists doing deals for other loyalists. so this will be terrible for the american business community. it will be horrible for the press. it will be horrible for our great universities and schools. and it will be the end of american democracy. >> we should point out also, hilarious to see donald trump's face as all thespeople pray around him. he's probably never prayed in his life. molly, what was your reaction when trump threatened to go after msnbc this week? this network? if or when he gets into office. and i want to pick up what you said earlier, media bias, the media is not equipped to cover this. i've got a step further and say they're not equipped to cover it where it's a republican. i'm pretty sure if a democrat running for office had threatened to shut down fox news, they would've been crazy, crazy angry response in the media. but for some ways, and when trump says -- >> right. a lot of this stuff has been under covered, the trump stuff especially. that vermin comment. if there were ever a dehumanizing call, an authoritarian catchphrase, that is it. i was shocked that didn't get more coverage. you have seen him try really hard to discredit the media. remember, in 2015 2016, he focused almost entirely on cnn. fake news cnn. the goal, he knew that his people watched cnn. some of them did. he wanted to discredit them. i think that he has broadened that. he thinks it's worked in certain ways. media distrust is at the highest troubles in many years. a lot of this has worked, and i think that trump will continue. we are vulnerable to all of these authoritarian plays. we've seen it. that's what's really scary >> a quick yes or no question, it's what i've asked guess on my peacock show this month. i'll say the same thing to both of you. if donald trump wins the 2024 presidential election, will we be having another election in 2028, jason? >> i think we will be having a fake election, the sort that you have in authoritarian countries. not a free and fair election ever again. >> at best, we will have a fake election, at worst, we will have no elections. >> that is an important if depressing no to end on. it is important that we talk about this stuff. i wish more journalists would. professor jason stanley, molly, thank you both for your analysis. we appreciate it. coming up next, my conversation with the general secretary of the palestinian national initiative and the call occupied west bank, dr. elizabeth about gucci. we're talking about palestinians not just getting killed in record numbers in gaza, but in the west bank to. stick around. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ are you replacing me? with this guy? customize and save with liberty bibberty. he doesn't even have a mustache! oh, look! a bibu. 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[screaming] those are israeli soldiers rating a west bank home, throwing a man to the ground and beating him before they arrest him. he was lucky to live, as israeli forces use aerial bombs, drones, tanks, and bulldozers to attack west bank villages and refugee camps. leaving scores dead, or injured, or homeless, including children. since october 7th, tlence in the west bank against palestinians has exploded. by the u.n.'s estimate, in the seventh week since october 7th attacks, israeli forces killed more palestinians in the west bank than in any entire year. more than in any whole year since record keeping began. again, this is the occupied west bank, where hamas has never ruled the way that hamas is in constant complaint with the government there, the palestinian authority. in fact, last month of israeli forces in the west bank bulldozed a memorial to yesterday reflect, the first leader of the palestinian authority, who is a long-standing political rival of hamas. if the whole point of israel's war is to combat hamas, why all the violence in the west bank where hamas holds no offices and no hostages? why go after an arafat statue? the violence, by the way, not just from the military, but from the heavily armed israeli settlers. they can count on the support of fellow settler, the israeli finance minister who said recently in residence to pulling the two thirds of the million palestinian -- supporting the attacks on october 7th, quote, there are 2 million not seize in judean and samaria, who hate us exactly as do the not seize of hamas ices in gaza. he's referring to the west bank when he says judeo-and some area. that's where he's saying 2 million palestinian azzi's, men, women, and children live. the settlers violence there is so bad that even if the only two members of the united states conference they were in israel during the october 7th attacks, democratic representative dan goldman and senator cory booker wrote to president biden earlier this week urging pressure on israel to restrain settlers who are bent on making a two-state solution impossible. it is not just the settlers that are interested in a two state solution. only weeks before this current war started, benjamin netanyahu gave a speech at the u.n. holding a map of the quote, new middle east, a map which showed gaza and the west bank as a part of israel's territory. while many continue to argue about the dangers of college students in the united states carrying pro palestinian signs that say from the river to the sea, it is strange that they are ignoring in israeli prime minister proudly toting a map in which palestine didn't exist. all at the same time while his military and the most extreme settlers carry out a campaign of violence and displacement across the occupied west bank. earlier, i spoke with doctor must iffy -- palestinian activist. he's a secretary general and cofounder of the palestinian national indicative. >> doctor barghouti, thank you for joining us on the show. every palestinian i have had on this show since october 7th, i have asked about what life is like in gaza. i have to begin by asking you what is life like today in the occupied west bank? >> it is absolutely horrible. the israeli army has cut into 224 small islands, or ghettos if you want. by 650 military checkpoints, many of these checkpoints are closed down completely. the travel from one area to another used to take 30 minutes, and could now take two and a half hours today. there are many areas where we cannot send our medical teams because the israeli army is preventing us from doing that. especially areas behind apartheid rule. many areas near the settlements. more than that, there is a very serious amount of israeli settlers there against palestinians. yesterday, they attack palestinians in the south village, and have burned houses, attacked people, and so for more than ten people were killed by israeli settlers terror. 35 communities have been evicted. practically there is a hole attack on palestinian populations, not only by the israeli army, but also by the israeli settlers. add to that defected since the 7th of october, the israeli army arrested no less than 3500 people. 2200 of those are under the so-called administered attention, that means they are in their jail without knowing why. >> doctor barghouti, when you hear, you mentioned settlers. the israeli finance minister is a settler. when you hear him call 2 million west bank palestinians not seize, what is your reaction to that? >> i think that the real fascist nazi is him himself. him himself did not shy away from calling himself -- he called himself a fascist homophobe. this man has said that the palestinians, the the settlers in the west bank so the palestinians can lose any state of their own. and then palestinians would have to choose between three options. either to emigrate, which is ethnic cleansing, whi