have the emotional reunions as 24 hostages, including 13 israelis, ten thai nationals, and one filipino, have been released as part of a temporary truce between hamas and israel. and more hostages could be set free at any moment. we're going to take a closer look at who's been released, and at the 49 palestinians that were also released as part of the steel. holding out hope. i'll talk to a man waiting to find out if his cousin and his cousins wife will be among the next group of hostages released by hamas. why he wants his loved ones to know this morning. and later, no holiday for donald trump's legal woes. the doj's thanksgiving day court filing spelling out just how dangerous trump's rhetoric can be, and why it's critical a gag order remain in place for the twice impeached, quadruple indicted, wonder of ex president. all of that and more is coming up. and a good saturday morning to you all, i'm katie phang. we begin today's coverage with the shaky and temporary truce between hamas and the israeli government. new this morning, hamas is claiming that israel has already broken the terms of the four-day cease-fire, after members of the israeli military opened fire on civilians killing two. nbc news has not confirmed this information. despite that claim by hamas, we are still awaiting the use of yet another release of hostages fr out of the gaza strip this morning. yesterday, hamas released 24 hostages from the gaza strip. 13 israeli women and children, ranging in age from 2 to 85. ten thai nationals, and one filipino. in exchange, israel released from its jails 39 palestinian prisoners. mostly women and teenage boys. meanwhile, more humanitarian aid has finally entered the region as part of the truce. more than 300 trucks are set to roll into gaza today, including at least 130,000 tons of fuel. this humanitarian aid is desperately needed as supplies of food, water, and medicine dwindled for civilians while the barrage of missiles made it too dangerous for aid workers to deliver the needed goods. despite this positive sign, hamas claims that the amount and the speed of the delivery of this humanitarian aid is also not honoring the negotiated cease-fire deal. while the world holds its breath for an extended cease-fire, as all sides navigate the diplomatic high wire act, the idf is already issued a warning to palestinians in southern gaza to not return to their homes. warning, the or is not over yet. joining me now, mark polymeropoulos, former cia officer and nbc national security and intelligence analyst. mark, thanks for being here this morning. we've been grateful for your analysis insight along the way. we wanted to ask you urination thoughts this morning about how this hostage handover unfolded yesterday and the upcoming release of hostages today. >> well, first of all, katie, i think it is an extraordinary ballet of multiple different factions and parties. the fact that yesterday went through, you know, smoothly, i think is a credit to all the negotiators behind the scenes. you see, perhaps, some hiccups today with hamas making some complaints. there's a qatari delegation that just arrived in israel as well. they are going to iron out some last-minute details, but all signs do point to this day to going forward, and you can't help but feel some emotion. you sought the joy among some of the israeli families, reunited with their hostages. pretty extraordinary. i think one thing we should look for now as we are on day two is when will the american hostages be released? there's ten of them in custody. i think several days, u.s. administration officials, they they expected out of this first, 50 out of this first four days, three american hostages. that hasn't happened yet. i think all eyes are on that. even president biden talked about that a young american three year old in custody, so, that's something to look for the next three days. >> mark, let's be clear. i want to ask about the fact we haven't seen any americans released yet. again, this is only the second thing is that four-day cease-fire. should we be reading anything into the fact that we haven't seen americans released, considering the fact that biden was actively, and the united states, frankly, actively involved in getting this negotiated deal done? >> right, katie. let's remember who we're dealing with here. this is hamas. it's a terrorist group. they are certainly engaged in psychological torture against all of the families of the hostages, and the hostages themselves. it's also a group we can't forget not only kill 1200 israelis, but also killed over 30 americans, took ten americans hostage. and certainly not a group anyone can trust. yet, you know, we have to move forward with the hope that americans will be released. and look at the end of the day, if americans are not, there will be significant disappointment within the biden administration. let's just hope we're going to see some progress in the days ahead. >> let's talk about that psychological torture, mark. hannah cuts here, one of the hostages that was successfully and safely released yesterday, islamic jihad claiming they had executed her and she had been murdered, and he obviously, she was released yesterday. so, that was a lie. how do factions like islamic jihad complicate things when it comes to the release of hostages in this case? >> katie, that's a great question, because clearly, hamas told many of the hostages but there are many groups, and one of their is palestine is one of the, haugen of the, faction one even more closely aligned, frankly, with iran. so, as the days go forward and that's part of the negotiations, when you've heard certainly reports that hamas has asked for time to actually be able to work with other groups to gather up the hostages for eventual release, that's what makes this so incredibly complicated. i know we have that ballet statement, you know, previously because there are multiple factions, multiple groups, the fact that there's a cease-fire now in some sense, you know, should enable hamas and, for example, palestine islamic jihad and perhaps others to gather some of the hostages. you know, without the threat of israeli bombardment. but no doubt, this is not just a negotiation between two parties. there are multiple parties involved. >> credible fears, not only for israel, but others that this cease-fire allows hamas to regroup. and regroup could be getting more aid from third parties. it could be just figuring out where to move the hostages through their elaborate and complex tunnel system that they have in gaza. how concerned should israel's defense forces be, at this time, considering the fact that there is now three more days left in the cease-fire, and as more hostages are released, israel agrees to add another day, if 50 hostages or let go, there's another day given for that cease-fire? >> so, look. the israelis, number one objective certainly is to return the hostages. i think we've talked about it before. this is part of the social pact we have with their citizens. if someone's taken, they're going to get them back. but it does kind of clash with their military objectives. and make no mistake, israel believes very strongly they have to restart offensive operations primarily down in the southern gaza strip. so, any delay, they're 100% right, will allow hamas to regroup, to reequip perhaps, to move fighters through the tunnels. move them throughout the gaza strip, and this is some concern. the other part, which i think that is something that is the big question not only in tel aviv, but in washington, it's the international pressure that is building on the biden administration, not only from arab allies, from the international community, but also from members of biden's own democratic party. usually, we give israel some runway as they prosecute these conflicts in gossip, at some, point we tell them to stop. the question is is at what point will the biden administration say, this is enough. i think this is of great concern to israeli policy makers. >> mark, before i have to let you go, we do have to ask about those 39 palestinian personnel that were like oh out of israel 's jails. one of the big objectives for hamas was to get these palestinian prisoners released. your thoughts about the exchange that's happening right now, in terms of the israelis, the americans, and other foreign nationals are allowed to be released by hamas, in exchange for the specific palestinian prisoners being led out of israeli jails? >> well, look we might not like it, in the united states or in israel, the hamas is going to get enormous credit amongst the palestinian population for the release of these prisoners. these prisoners will be treated as heroes. the israelis claim that there are security prisoners. they have blood on their hands. but in the eyes of the palestinian public, they are going to welcome home. it's also going to be a victory for hamas. now, israel understands this. they've had these lopsided traits and deals before. of, course famously, in 2011, they traded gullet to lead, are they recovered him, when the idf member, 4000 palestinian prisoners, one of whom was aghast in war, the current leader of hamas in gaza. so, i think we just have to understand that there are motions on both sides, and there will be celebrations amongst the palestinians and hamas is going to get credit for this. we might not like that, that's just a fact in the west bank, no doubt. >> it is just a part of how delicate and fragile and how absolutely difficult peace negotiations have to be for all of the nations and the parties involved. mark polymeropoulos, you have been with us since the beginning and we continue to help us with your insight. thank you for being here this morning. i appreciate it. >> thank you. >> and joining me now for more, live from tel aviv, is nbc news correspondent erin mclaughlin. aaron, good to see you this morning. what more can you tell us about what we can expect about this next group of hostages that should be set to be released today? >> well, katie, the cease-fire appears to be holding, which means as you say, we do expect additional israeli hostages, as well as palestinia be released in the coming hours. a diplomatic source telling nbc news they expect at least 13 israeli hostages to be released today, following yesterday's successful exchange. meanwhile, this morning, we see really heartwarming scenes of israeli families reunited, including the munderf emily. just beautiful footage of nine year old ohad munder, running into his father's arms, seeing his father for the first time in 49 days. ohad, his mother as well as his grandmother, were among the 13 israeli hostages released yesterday. we are also seeing this morning, relief in gaza. according to the palestinian red crescent, at least 61 aid trucks full of essential, food, medicine, and water, badly needed items in the gaza strip, crossed in to gaza. and this morning, we saw palestinians out at the supermarkets, stocking up on those essentials, because the fact of the matter is the israeli military is warning this war is far from over. they are warning palestinians in gaza not to try to return to their homes in the north. saying this is just a temporary pause. katie? >> erin, there's also a warning being given by the idf to palestinians not even to return to the southern part of gaza, seeing how that is probably the target after this four-day cease-fire elapses. there's got to be a mixture of joy and elation on both sides, frankly, at this point, that there's been this release, this exchange, but a fear the bombardment will continue eminently. >> yeah, that's certainly the concern inside gaza. it's also a concern shared by the humanitarian community. i was speaking earlier this week with a w.h.o. official, who pointed out there are only two of the 24 hospitals in northern gaza strip, still functioning. he was telling me is absolutely their concern that when this war resumes, that the israeli military will set their sights further and further south, which, by the way, it's where they have told tens of thousands of palestinians to evacuate to. when that happens, just real concern about what might happen, and the humanitarian situation, while the sponsors, welcome humanitarian community arguing it is simply not enough. that a full cease-fire is needed, but that doesn't seem to be in the cards from the israeli military. and their perspective, katie. >> and d.c. news correspondent erin mclaughlin. it's good to see you. please stay safe. i appreciate it. we're going to continue to bring you the latest on the hostage release during this pause in the fighting in the israel-hamas war. as the second flight of hostages is expected to be free from hamas activity sometime today. but first, we're going to hear from one of the israeli families are still waiting to hear some good news about their loved ones. we've got a jam packed show for you this morning, so keep it right here for you on msnbc. you are watching the katie phang show. ang show still living with odors? 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[deep exhale] [deep exhale] [trumpet music plays] 579 breaths to show 'em your stuff. every breath matters. don't like rsv take your breath away. protect yourself from rsv... ...with abrysvo, pfizer's rsv vaccine. abrysvo is a vaccine for the prevention of lower respiratory disease from rsv in people 60 years and older. rsv can be serious if you are 60 or older. having asthma, copd, diabetes, or heart disease puts you at even higher risk. abrysvo is not for everyone and may not protect all who receive the vaccine. don't get abrysvo if you've had a severe allergic reaction to its ingredients. people with a weakened immune system may have a decreased response to abrysvo. the most common side effects are tiredness, headache, pain at the injection site, and muscle pain. ask your pharmacist or doctor about pfizer's rsv vaccine, abrysvo. visit these retailers or find other retailers near you at abrysvo.com. families of the estimated [deep breath] 240 hostages kidnapped by hamas have been waiting for 49 days, hoping for the safe return of their loved ones. yesterday, some families prayers were answered when 24 hostages were released. but many others are still waiting in anguish for good news to come. moe absolutely is one of them. his cousin, 49 year old aviv and aviv's wife, leah, are both presumed hostages after their home in israel's coutts -- rned to the ground by hamas. as reported in the times of israel, aviv was fending off terrorists while his wife hit in the safe room of their home during the october 7th attack. joining me right now is it was a silly, political scientist at american university whose cousin, aviv and his cousin's wife, liat are, presumed to be held as hostages in gaza. thank you for being here. i know you do share the joy in the release of those hostages that were sent home to israel yesterday. more expected to be released today, but i'm sure you are praying that those there are released today include your cousin and your cousin's wife. tell your viewers how excruciating it's been to have to wait and hear if, perhaps, your loved ones get to come home. >> yeah. i feel so many emotions at the same time, you know. scared and hopeful and happy and sad at the same time. so, i know that my cousin aviv would not be returning in this part of the deal at least, because no men are included in this. , and liat was not released yesterday, but we are really, really hoping that she will in the next few days. liat is an american citizen and president biden mentions that there will be three american citizens among those released in the next few days. but i'm also, yeah, i am so happy for, especially for the families of the children that were released yesterday. and i hope that there will be more today, you know, and grandmothers and so, that is very, very much mixed emotions. >> boaz boaz, have you heard anything from the israeli government about the location or the safety of your cousin and his wife? >> we don't know anything about the location or safety. the last we know is, of his phone was to your located into the gaza strip. we heard nothing from them, and that is something really important that i hope the international community will put pressure, more pressure, on hamas to at least allow to publish at list of hostages and what's their situation, and to allow the red cross access to visit them and check on them, because you know, we don't even know if they are alive or not. >> yeah, boaz, in the prior segment, i was speaking to a former cia analyst about the fact that palestine islamic jihad has custody of some of the hostages that were taken on october 7th. do you have a concern that perhaps hamas does not have your cousin, and his wife, in custody, and perhaps is complicated in terms of this hostage return, because other factions like palestinian islamic jihad may actually have your cousin and his wife at this time? >> yeah. of course, i have this concern. we don't know. nobody knows, and hamas doesn't published their list or other organizations. but i do believe that hamas has strong enough control of the gaza strip that they can, if they actually want, get a hold on all of the hostages. >> talk about some of the dialogue you have had with the israeli government. there was a lot of pressure, obviously, from you and others and from the international community, to try to work on some way to get these hostages home. how do you feel about the agreement that was reached, to have this cease-fire in order to the facilitate the return of the hostages? >> i think it's the right way. i think, i mean, i hope and wish that we could get all the hostages back. but to some, it's better than nothing and anybody we can get back, is good and any price is worth it. any price. and you know, it's also good that we can get food and water and medical aid to civilian palestinians. that is also good. so, i think this is a good deal, the fact that there is an option to extend more cease-fire, more palestinian prisoners released, for more israeli hostages. it is aid is also good. i hope that they can get all of them back home, all of them have families that are waiting for them. >> boaz, as we say goodbye to each other, if aviv and liat could hear you now, what would you like them to hear from you? >> i would like them to hear that their kids, the three young adult kids that are in the picture there, art waiting eagerly for them to come back. and i also want to say one more thing. in the end, there are two nations here in this small land, and until everybody accepts that, and finds a way to live in peace together, we will have this kind of bloodshed. and that has got to stop. it's got to stop. >> boaz atzili, we will also pray for the safe return of your cousin, aviv, and your cousin's wife, liat. thanks for being here. i appreciate your voice. >> thank you, katie. >> and still to come on the katie phang show, harasser in chief, new details about the barrage of harassment trump's courtroom targets have suffered as a result of his relentless and dangerous rhetoric, and the steps the doj is taking to end it. keep it right here, you're watching msnbc. ng msnbc happy holidays. we're going to need a bigger tree. spread some joy. hey honey are you ok? 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it's in the new york a.g.'s case. >> that's a great question, katie. i believe they probably will. there is a vehicle in the rules to bring this kind of information before the court. the court can't accepted or rejected, but you know, i sat through the argument earlier this week in the d.c. court of appeals case, regarding the constitutionality of the gag order. there was discussion about what was going on in other jurisdictions. similarly, judge chutkan was presiding over the trial in donald trump's case, has regularly talked about what's going on in other jurisdictions. so i think this evidence will probably be accepted by the applet court. and donald trump's lawyers, as recently as yesterday, filed their reply and they continue to ask the judges to just check your common sense at the door. you don't need to bring it with you to bear on this issue. hands one thing stood out about the letter that trump's team filed yesterday. they say, again, mr. trump did not directly threaten miss greenfield. that is the broken peg on which they continue to try to hang their legal argument. the good, news, katie is in court on monday, judge mullen directly knocked that down. she said, and i quote, there is a clear pattern here. donald trump issued a statement, and witnesses get threatens. so, i think the judges are beyond this nonsensical claim that donald trump just says things that are hyper critical of the witnesses who are expected to testify against them, and he should bear no sort of consequences when his supporters instantly rise to his call and begin intimidating, threatening, and harassing the witnesses. >> glenn, this is stage of, to, because in fulton county, when we were listening to the harris and floyd bond replication hearing, one of the defenses claims was well, mr. floyd is not the one who is actually doing the direct threats and intimidation and harassment and violence. to the witnesses, and to the dea in this case. it's people responding to comments on social media. but i wanted to bring up that fulton county case, because i thought it was interesting, glenn, when we talk about the gag order issue. because donald trump in fulton county consented to a bomb condition that prohibited him from posting requesting social media that threaten peoples, parties, witnesses, it said. russell, why do that if you're donald trump in fulton county, versus this drama in the battles we're seeing in the new york a.g.'s case, and over here in front of judge struck him? >> you know, i think donald trump is always making the calculation, what can i get away with and how much of it can i get away with? so, he consented to certain conditions so he could, you know, be released on bond in his georgia r.i.c.o. prosecution. and interestingly, it doesn't seem like he has directly violated the conditions that were sat down in georgia for him. so, i think that informs us that maybe he can actually abide by conditions of release or gag orders once they are imposed. the problem is, katie, this system doesn't seem willing to sort of stick with the gag order that judges impose. these gag orders have forever been on again, off again, on, again off again, and the minute they are lifted or pasta or state, donald trump jumps right back in, posting least alphaeus calls to action. he did it again against judge engoron's clerk in a really heartwarming, not, thanksgiving day post to the american people. which was a hate filled rant against all his perceived enemies, and he directly called out judge and giron, clerk again, by name, calling her a campaign finance violator and all sorts of other things. and i suspect we will now see the threats spike again to judge engoron's clerk. the question becomes when will the system, when will the criminal justice system, take this seriously enough that they really, in earnest, trying to put a stop to it? >> we heard a response to your question, glenn, not only from the doj, but also from fulton county to gay fani willis when she says, this is not really supposed to be a cart before the horse problem. you shouldn't actually have to have the violence occur in order to justify the muzzling of someone who is trying to incite violence. the silencing of someone appropriately so, because the interest of justice require it. so, do you think that there is any type of cribbing coming on, in terms of i'm that new york a.g. appellate court, and looking to see what's happening in the d.c. appellate court, and looking to see what's happening in fulton county? you and i know there may not be open communications going on physically are publicly, but people are paying attention if you are on these benches to what is going on with donald trump's cases, right? >> yeah. and when you are on the release, in that one but four felony cases, two federal, two state, for goodness sakes, donald trump's being prosecuted up and down the eastern seaboard. i think it would be irresponsible for one jurisdiction to decline to pay attention to the potentially witness threatening conduct by the same pretrial defendant in another jurisdiction, and we have seen some cross pollination between and among the judges. so, i can only wonder if, at some point, donald trump's luck will run out. and the judges will say enough. we're going to impose the sky quarter. struggling to keep them in place, andext question becomes how seriously do we deal with a violation of these gag orders? do we consider the sanction of up to, including, revoking him on release, and putting him in pretrial detention? >> to get there, you've got to have been held in contempt, and to have him held in contempt, you gotta have the gag order. , so you've got to have a disciplinary thing in place for us. conspicuously absent, gone, as i say goodbye to q, any type of attacks on aileen cannon in the southern district of florida. i wonder why that. is >> shocking. >> glenn kirschner. >> i know, were shocked, aren't we? that's our shock to face. as always, i love having you here because justice matters. thanks, my friend. >> thank you, katie. >> coming up after a quick break, holiday steals and deals. the black friday and cyber monday deals you might have missed, and how big box stores are using deep discounts to lure customers back in person. if you still got holiday shopping to do, me, you will want to stick around. that's next. at's next. when you smell the amazing scent of gain flings... time stops. 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>> well, this year actually, you can wait a little bit! it sort of is a present thing to hear for us procrastinators, because people haven't been buying those kinds of things, the toys, electronics, and close this year. prices for food are really elevated versus a few years ago, some people have -- those most purchases, and retailers are ready for. that, perhaps will give better discounts as christmas approaches. >> you know, sarah, days like black friday used to be massive retail events. now, we have cyber monday, i mean, pretty soon, we are going to have a day of the week to be a retail experience. at this point, to your point, should we just wait until we are prepared and ready to be able to buy something? or are we really going to see the type of deep discounts that retailers could provide to consumers to maybe incentivize them to want to buy things sooner versus later? >> there's always a few items that have very deep discounts. so, i always say, if you're watching something you know you want a computer, these beats headphones that i've been on solving last few days, you can grab a deal. but if you're just trying to mark people off your list, waiting this year -- stupid. i don't think you'll get called out, you will find things out of that. >> i read that a professor at the wharton school of business as people are more value conscience, sarah. she says, excuse me, people are spending, but they are spending more conservatively. but inflation is finally slowing down. the numbers are getting a lot better, but we try to come out of maybe the pandemic and during the lockdown, where people were obviously a lot more careful about how they were spending their dollars. >> yes. i mean, prices are still up compared to two years ago. they are up enough that people can feel it. yes, a lot of things are starting to come down. i talked to the ceo of walmart yesterday, who have a good read on the policy of the u.s. consumer and he said, hey, we are so happy some of the prices seem a little lower for nonfood items. we have seen people really gravitating towards things like toys under $25. for even -- i think that is very telling about what is grabbing consumers. >> how much about the slowing of holiday sales is any type of indicator of what the profits are going to be for the last quarter for a lot of these big box retailers? a lot of them did not hire as we normally see a lot of additional employees for this last quarter. >> yeah, coming into the season there were many sides to the slower growth year. growth that was slower. the holiday hiring is one. even when you look at imports and the amount of goods that move through the networks in the u.s. ahead of the holidays, that was a little weaker. this whole year has been a year of people making choices between needs and wants. i think that this holiday will also be that. yes, that could put some pressure on retailers that felt more the want than the needs. >> sarah nas our, thank you so much for joining us. those of you out there, don't procrastinate. although maybe you can, according to sarah. make sure you hit around on your holiday list. thank, you sarah. we appreciate you being here. coming up next, crypto crackdown. we are gonna go inside a federal criminal charges inside the world's largest crypto exchange, binance. why was slapped with the biggest federal fine in crypto history sending the industry into a tailspin this week. you're watching the katie phang show, only on msnbc. covid-19 from breaking your momentum. you may have already been vaccinated against the flu, but don't forget this season's updated covid-19 shot too. 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(vo) learn more. it's your vision, it's your verizon. at bombas, we're obsessed with comfort. quality. movement. because your basic things should be your best things. one purchased equals one donated. visit bombas.com and shop our big holiday sale. somedays, i cover up because of my moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. now i feel free to bare my skin, thanks to skyrizi. ♪(uplifting music)♪ ♪nothing is everything♪ i'm celebrating my clearer skin... my way. with skyrizi, 3 out of 4 people achieved 90% clearer skin at 4 months. in another study, most people had 90% clearer skin, even at 5 years. and skyrizi is just 4 doses a year, after 2 starter doses. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine, or plan to. thanks to clearer skin with skyrizi - this is my moment. there's nothing on my skin and that means everything! ♪nothing is everything♪ now's the time. ask your doctor about skyrizi, the #1 dermatologist-prescribed biologic in psoriasis. learn how abbvie could help you save. teeth sensitivity is so common. it immediately feels like somebody's poking directly on the nerve. i recommend sensodyne. sensodyne toothpaste goes inside the tooth and calms the nerve down. and my patients say you know doc, it really works. it's pie season. and while you may have already picked up an apple pie, don't forget to grab pumpkin too. same goes for your fall vaccinations. you may have already been vaccinated against the flu this season, but don't forget to get an updated covid-19 shot, too. this week the founder and ceo of the world's largest cryptocurrency exchange, shan paying zao, better known as c, faces ten years in federal prison. lyle, who will pay a 50 million-dollar federal fine and a 1 million dollar civil penalty resign from binance after u.s. authorities allege the company failed to take basic steps to flag a report transactions for money laundering risk. according to treasury secretary, janet yellen, that includes abling transactions, quote supporting activities from child sexual abuse to illegal narcotics to terrorism all across more than 100,000 transactions. binance reached a 4.3 billion dollar settlement with the department of justice the amount attorney general merrick garland called, quote, one of the largest penalties we have ever obtained this followed the fraud conviction earlier this month of sand bankman-fried the founder of ftx. binance is, one time, biggest competitor. he was convicted on charges of doing a least ten billion dollars from customers and investors. take a listen to a.g. garlands takeaway on the prosecution of two major ceos in the world of crypto. >> the message here should be clear. using new technology to break the law does not make you a disruptor, it makes you a criminal. >> reporter: joining me now, ben mackenzie. actor, and the coauthor of easy money. cryptocurrency, casino capitalism, and the golden age of fraud. then, good to see you. happy holidays. crypto has a mystique to it. some expecting, like the title of your book, to make, quote, easy money. explain to our viewers why cryptocurrency, that industry, is you so often to facilitate criminal activity? >> good morning. happy thanksgiving to you, katie. why is crypto used to commit crimes? well, because it doesn't really do much else. it is used as a vehicle for speculation, basically gambling. you can gamble whether one cryptocurrency is gonna go up or down. it is really only other use cases crime. people can use it to send something of value, more or less, instantaneously overseas, anywhere in the world, that has -- that is very attractive to criminals. it can be used for money laundering, financing terrorism, evading various laws that they don't want to follow. >> then, you cz may have stepped down from binance but the new ceo, richard tang, is someone who has worked within that company for years. binance is facing monitor ship in wake of these charges but do you think there will ever be enough safeguards in place to stop these things from happening again? ? >> we will find all the agreement that they have with the doj is quite extensive. i haven't had a chance to go through the filing completely. but the question i would ask is what does cryptocurrency really do? it has to follow banking laws. if it has to comply with the money laundering laws, what is its real use case? we will find out. the other thing we are seeing is for all of its top of de-centralization, the cryptocurrency agency is heavily socialized. the vast majority of the trading volume goes through the centralized exchanges, such as ftx. sam bankman-fried was the owner of the, such as binance. there are very few players in the cryptocurrency industry that really matter. several of them are now either convicted of crimes or accused of crimes. >> to your point,, banned in a twist of unintentional irony the former ceo of binance lashed out at ftx founder, sam bankman-fried, last year. calling him one of the greatest rosters in history. cz is on record welcoming anyone to look under our hood as we run a very clean business. then, he sat in the courtroom earlier this month for sam bankman-fried's trial. you even interviewed him last year. what do you make of him and others who lead this particular industry? >> well, it is all a lot of hype, right? they all talk the same game. they are innovators, they're breaking from the old technology. but let's just start with the fact that this technology is not new. it is over 30 years old. all of the myths that this is some sort of innovative technology, that's wrong. that it is going to revolutionize the financial sector, that's wrong. that we are clean of any connection to criminal activity, that is pro prosperous, as we see. but fact that they are turning on one another in and an attempt to save themselves of quite ironic really because cryptocurrency talked a lot about community. of course, economically speaking these cryptocurrencies are more like gambling. it is a zero sum gain. you are fighting against everyone else in your community. we see that it is hardly surprising really that cz turned on sam. sam went down, now cz is down. there are only a few other players left to fall. >> ben, back in june the fcc actually sued binance accusing the ceo, cz, of fraud. according to that press conference from the department of justice, there was no icc that was president. what do you make of this? in my opinion, you have to be coordinated if you're going to make the right regulatory decisions to make sure that this doesn't happen. >> i think the scc has its own agenda. it is not opposed to what the doj is doing. it has its own lawsuit against binance. we are really trying to -- various branches of u.s. law enforcement and u.s. regulatory agencies are trying to figure out how exactly to regulate cryptocurrency. it has existed in the gray area between how we classify these commodities. bitcoin has been classified as a commodity but for 20,000 other digital currencies, most of them looked like securities. i think the s.e.c.'s being prudent and making sure that its own lawsuits are separate from the doj's actions against binance. >> ben mackenzie, it is great to have you here. as a parting no, i found something that i found to be not only startling and interesting but relevant to our conversation. for our viewers to understand, this thing with finance is not something to smear at or sneeze that. or, excuse me, sleep on. the military wing of hamas use bitcoin transactions to raise money for the palestinian resistance. those transactions were not monitored. glad to have you here, ben mackenzie. coming up, in our next hour of the special extended edition of the katie phang show, what we know about the second group of hostages sent to be freed back into israel any moment now. what it will take to keep the fragile truce agreement from falling apart. a lot more ahead this morning, stay with us right here on msnbc. a burning, stinging, 5-times-a-day,... ...makeup smearing drops user. i want another option that's not another drop. tyrvaya. it's not another drop. it's the first and only nasal spray for dry eye. tyrvaya treats the signs and symptoms of dry eye disease fast by helping your body produce its own real tears. common side effects include sneezing, cough, and throat and nose irritation. relying only on drops? 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call your cardiologist and ask about attr-cm. good morning. jonathan capehart is off this morning. welcome to an extended edition of the katie phang show, live from miami, florida.
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