night. >> do you think more people would pay attention to the price of the eggs if you gave the good economic news in an ugly christmas sweater? >> possibly. >> i just i was remarking -- >> i don't know where that sentence was going to end. >> i have never seen hris hayes with an over the shoulder monitor that says tiz the season. and the holiday cheer people want to see you in the santa hat. >> i'm going to be in an ugly christmas sweater doing this throw before the holiday season is out. >> whatever it takes to get people to pay attention to good news. america, you are owed that. thank you, my friend. thank you to you at home for joining us this hour. we are beginning with some breaking news this evening. the israeli government has voted to accept a deal that would free 50 hostages currently being held by the terrorist group, hamas. that is according to the office of the prime minister benjamin netanyahu. what we do know is that the 50 hostageerize all women and children, and they would be exchanged for 150 palestinian women and children currently being held in israeli prisons. the deal also includes a four-day cease-fire to allow for those exchanges, and for more humanitarian aid to enter gaza. that cease-fire also may have the potential to be extended pending the release of additional hostages. joining us now from the region is nbc news correspondent erin mclaw lan in tel aviv tonight. erin, what are you hearing about the latest in terms of the contours of this deal. >> well, we are learning more from the israeli government. they just put out a statement. let me just read you what they have to say saying the government of israel is obligated to return home all of the hostages. tonight the gump has approved the outline of the first stage of achieving this goal according to which at least 50 hostages, women and children, will be released over four days during which a pause in the fighting will be held. the release of every additional ten hostages will result in one additional day in the pause. the government of israel, the idf, and security services will continue the work in order to return home all of the hostages, complete the elimination of hamas, and ensure there will be no new threat to the state of israel from gaza. now, what's notably absent from this latest announcement from the israeli government is any mention of the palestinian prisoners, the 150 women and children, that according to a senior israeli official was part of this agreement to be released. and if that is still, in fact, the case and again we are waiting for more details to be released specifically an announcement from the government of qatar, a key intermediary in the negotiations. but if those palestinian prisoners are, in fact, part of this deal, that that will tack on another 24 hours in which the victims of those attacks -- israeli victims, will have the opportunity to challenge this agreement to the israeli supreme court. now, in the past when this has happened, the supreme court has sided with the government and ratified this deal. but, again, we're waiting for more of those really critical specifics as are the families of the hostages. this is an open and gaping wound for them. they've endured this agonizing pain for more than six weeks. earlier today i was speaking to thomas han, he's a single father of 9-year-old emily han. on october 7th she was staying over a friend's house. initially thomas was told that she was dead. weeks later the israeli military came back and told him she was in fact alive believed to be a hostage in gaza. i was exchanging text messages with him earlier today. he texted me, quote, so far so good. but the fact is he doesn't know. there has been no proof of life for emily, so there's no way for him at this point to know if she is in fact part of this deal, although we understand that once and if the israelis get the list of the released hostages as part of this agreement, then the families will be individually notified. >> a lot of the agonizing wait continues. it's quite clear. we will be back for more from tel aviv. erin mclaughlin, thank you for that essential reporting. i want to turn now to chris o'leary, former director of hostage recovery from the u.s. government and now senior vice president of global operations at the sufan group. understanding there's a lot we don't know yet, what your impregs of the deal that's been announced? >> i think it's likely it's going to go through. there's too much pressure in israel and international pressure as well on this deal. there are some concessions they don't want to make, the suspension and collection of reconnaissance intelligence, the drones is not something a military member in their right mind would want to agree to. hamas attacked israel a month and a half ago and now you want to close your eyes for five days and assume they're just going to do the right thing. that's the challenge here. there's friction between the hostage recovery, the negotiated release, and military requirements and goals to continue to pursue the defeat of hamas but also regain control of the other hostages. some of these hostages will need to be rescued at some point. >> how optimistic are you about the sort of long-term prospects for all the hostages given there are 50 here, i think that's roughly a fifth of the hostages we know about being held in gaza. >> i don't want to rain on the parade today. this is good news once it goes through for the 50 victims that get released and also for their families obviously. but it's also an ominous side if it took this long to release 50 women and children and hamas asked for these many demands, how difficult is it going to be to get the idf members out? and that's probably going to require the defeat of hamas or hostage rescue efforts down the line. >> can i ask a basic question but given this sort of asymmetrical numbers from previous hostage releases where one israeli hostage has been exchanged for i think up to 1,500 other hostages, is it really a bad sign it's 50-150. given the history here, tell me why you think this is a lot of demands relative to other negotiations. >> it's not an unreasonable number. hamas has different priorities now than they did back then. their priorities now are to buy time. they are looking to survive to fight another day. they're looking as they're buying time for the international support and domestic support in israel for the military offensive to erode. it already has. we've seen that. we're also looking at increasing friction between the hostage families and military. these two couldn't be more in competition with each other. hamas is looking to change the narrative as to who's the monster and invert that, and they've had some success to this point. >> yes, and some people would argue israel's assault in gaza i think that has taken 14,000 lives has assisted most directly in that. i do want to ask how this so far has come to be. netanyahu is say he asked president biden to intervene, and that biden, i believe, improved the terms according to netanyahu's office. what could that mean? we've heard the qatari's mention this as the principal interlockteres in all this. >> the american government has an incredible standard for hostage recovery, which was borne out of the obama administration after a failure. and we credit to president obama did a complete review how we address these cases and did a complete overhaul in the u.s. government. now we have a whole of government approach where we have all the intelligence agencies, special oprails, diplomacy, all synchronized with our partners as well. the reason we have such a robust relationship with the qataris is because we work these things together. the u.s. has an influential role in this, but at the end of the day the american hostages are also israeli citizens. we are only there to influence and steer these things as are the qataris, but we really can't make any demands here. we are only in a position where we can assist, ald vise, provide intelligence and we can't really demand. >> what are your expectations if when you say families of military hostages willival to wait a long time. you were advising them, if therapy coming to you saying when, when, if there's any kind of time line, how would you set expectations? >> i would manage expectations and be direct with them. the u.s. government has a team of counselors that work with the families. you have to be straight and direct with them, share intelligence with them, give them counseling and support. i mean this is an incredibly hard time for all these folks. they're not sleeping. well, they can't go on for years without sleeping. so you have the manage their health and well-being. you have to provide them with aid and support because these people can't work, they can't go back to their normal lives, and you have to make them part of the recovery process, too. you have to integrate them into the negotiations. they have some ideas, they know their family members. this one is a little more unique than individual cases, but they still have to be part of the process. >> all we know the next 24, 42, 78 hours is going to be moments of elation for some families and incredibly dashed hopes for others. but we focus on the good news that we know at this hour, which is a deal has been approved. chris o'leary, thank you for your time and expertise on all this. we have a lot more ahead tonight. former trump officials are again sounding the alarm about the dangers of a second trump administration. is anyone listening? plus, are the courts trelding lightly when it comes to trying cases against a once and possibly future president. >> we're going to have more on that after the break. going to n that after the break i got this $1,000 camera for only $41 on dealdash. dealdash.com, online auctions since 2009. this playstation 5 sold for only 50 cents. this ipad pro sold for less than $34. and this nintendo switch, sold for less than $20. i got this kitchenaid stand mixer for only $56. i got this bbq smoker for 26 bucks. and shipping is always free. go to dealdash.com right now and see how much you can save. 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he's a lovely man. the trump hating prosecutor in the case, his wife and family despise me much more than he does. and he decides -- i think he's about a 10. they're about a 15 on a scale of 10. >> if that mention of jack smith's family was not a clear enough threat, trump followed it up two days later with this most on truth social -- "deranged jack smith will end up in a mental institution by the time of my next term as president and by the time that is successfully completed." trump has also name checked and posted intimidating statements about potential witnesses including his former attorney general bill barr, former chief of staff mark meadows, and his former vice president mike pence, as well as his former lawyers jenna ellis and sidney powell. but, again, the idea of revoking trump's bond, of punishing him with jail time for this kind of intimidation, that has yet to be put on the table in either case. and while harrison floyd's hearing today ended with the judge imposing a broader and stricter order controlling harrison floyd's speech, donald trump had a ruling on his gag order yesterday. and the ruling was the appeals court will narrow trump's gag order. one of the judges on the panel said they have to use a careful scalpal to carve out a narrow order while not limiting trump as a presidential candid. you can see the legal system is treading very, very carefully here, one would even say lightly. and the net result of that is that trump gets to have it both ways. at campaign rallies trump gets to use the cases against him to score political points. >> every time i'm indicted, i can consider it a great badge of honor because i'm inbeing indicted for you. thanks a lot, everybody. i appreciate it. >> and meanwhile, in court he's using his campaign as a shield to ensure treatment that no other defendant would get. so how is donald trump held accountable here? and how can our legal system protect the people he could intimidate in the meantime? i mean, this is, after all, what he posted today. >> why do you think that fani and alvin and letitia and of course the deranged one, jack smith, took so long and very publicly they leak everything, started their work so late they could have started it years ago. it's called election interference and prosecutorial misconduct. >> joining me now is former acting solicitor-general, neil katyal. neil, thank you for helping me understand how the court is approaching the confident subject, the complicated defendant donald trump. first, let me ask you what your expectation for the appeals court ruling for the gag order? just how punitive is it going to be? >> the argument yesterday was in front of our nation's second highest court, three extraordinary well prepared, well respected judges. and i think the ultimate bottom line is trump's lawyer could not answer the simple questions the court posed, for example, what is your standard, can criminal defendants say anything they want and the like. i think basically at the end of the argument i was left thinking that trump will lose. for the first time in american history, a former president will be gagged by a court. i think the order will be narrowed a little bit because judge chutkan who's the trial judge said that trump couldn't attack the prosecutor jack smith. and i think there was some cause for concern among the judges. that wasn't really something trump's lawyer pushed as much, but it's something the court brought up on its own, and so i think ultimately, though, trump loses and donald trump will be gagged, and if he violates those gag orders, we will get into the situation of possible jail time. >> can you talk more about that, neil, possible jail time? it really feels the courts have gone out of their way to not go there of yet. i understand it's complicated, but at the same time he isn't being treated like any other defendant here, and he is loathe to obey anybody's orders. i wonder if you think we are going to get to the point where there has to be a real robust discussion about jailing the former president. >> so, alex, i could not agree with you more about what you just said. if you want to see unequal treatment in our judicial system, look no further than the way the courts have treated donald trump or indeed his codefendant today. they reported leaniacy and second chances the average defendant could never dream of. and time and time again we're seeing trump and his codefendants get the benefit of the doubt, and i do think that patience is wearing thin among the courts as well. i do think that trump if he violates it which i think hay me do because he's incapable of following any rules, decorum or the like, i do think we're going to see that. yesterday i was talking with lawrence o'donnell, and i said, look, the country is watching this gag order hearing. and whatever donald trump does, other defendants in other cases are going to do. whether it's a mafia case, a drug case, whatever, that this sets a precedent for norm breaking behavior. and lo and behold, we didn't have to wait a day to see the corrosive effects of trump's arguments already. because in fulton county, georgia, harrison floyd was basically saying, yeah, it's my first amendment right to intimidate witnesses. this is, you know, out of control already, and i do think the courts will put this back in the bottle or whatever but they have to act quickly. >> i want to ask you kind of like a broader ethical question which is the notion for running for office and anything from a gag order to the scheduling of the trials. fani willis made the point it would be a really sad day if you're under investigation for a shoplifting charge, you go run for city council to stop the investigation. we joke about -- to some degree i think there's a levity embedded in that, but it's not an unserious possibility, the idea that you shield yourself from prosecution by running for higher office. trump is the first of many -- trump breaks the mold i should say, but could be the vanguard here. and i wonder how concerned the court should be about the way in which he's effectively weaponizing his candidacy for his defense. >> they should be gravely concerned, you're exactly right. remember donald trump escaped indictment before when he was president because he said, bill barr, his attorney general said a sitting president cannot be indicted. then he leaves office not necessarily voluntarily, but he allegedly leaves, and now his argument is a guy who's running for president can't be indicted. and if he wins he's going to say a sitting president can't be indicted. there's no more fundamental principle in our law, go back to what our founders thought, no person is above the law. that is why we fought the revolution against king george 3 and donald trump is trying to reenact it. it is baffling to me why georgia is going to trial in august 2024 on the fulton county case. i don't understand that. samuel was indicted three months ago and already convicted. i had the privilege of doing the george floyd prosecution against derek chauvin. that murder happened three years ago. we already had the trial, had the appeal, and had the united states supreme court yesterday reject derek chauvin's appeal. why trump gets these massive delays both in the fulton county cases as well as in the mar-a-lago case on stolen documents is beyond me. i can't begin to understand it. >> yeah. the system may be rigged in trump's favor which is effectively the opposite of what he's been saying. neil katyal, thank you so much for your time tonight my friend. it's great to see you. coming up president biden is involved in two battles, the war in gaza and the war about gaza. congressman jamal bowman joins me. first, republicans can't seem to quit donald trump no matter how many republicans tell them they should. more on that after the break. icl them they should more on that after the break (man) mm, hey, honey. looks like my to-do list grew. "paint the bathroom, give baxter a bath, get life insurance," hm. i have a few minutes. i can do that now. oh, that fast? remember that colonial penn ad? i called and i got information. they sent the simple form i need to apply. all i do is fill it out and send it back. well, that sounds too easy! (man) give a little information, check a few boxes, sign my name, done. they don't ask about your health? (man) no health questions. -physical exam? -don't need one. it's colonial penn guaranteed acceptance whole life insurance. if you're between the ages of 50 and 85, your acceptance is guaranteed in most states, even if you're not in the best health. options start at $9.95 a month, 35 cents a day. once insured, your rate will never increase. a lifetime rate lock guarantees it. keep in mind, this is lifetime protection. as long as you pay your premiums, it's yours to keep. call for more information and the simple form you need to apply today. there's no obligation, and you'll receive a free beneficiary planner just for calling. who the hell else would you vote for? there may be some people who don't like my attitude, but my attitude is what gets us there. >> for any other candidate 91 felony charges and reckless defiance in the face of that might spell political death, but not for with a one donald j. trump. "the washington post" this week spoke to 16 of donald trump's advisers who are wondering whether it's even worth trying to stop him. this is former chief of staff john kelly. >> i came out and told people the awful things he said about wounded soldiers and didn't have half a days's bounce. if anything his numbers go up. there is no better example of trump's enduring dprip on his party than the behavioral of newly elected speaker mike johnson, a man who has already seen the legislative reality that nothing can get done in the house without democratic votes. but speaker johnson is not likely to say speaker johnson without the support of maga republicans, and so mr. johnson has doubled down on his allegiance to trump by visiting trump at mar-a-lago last night. there's the photo. so, yes, alarm bells are being sounded but apparently no one in the party is listening. joining us now is michelle goldberg, opinion columnist for "the new york times," and ben smith, editor-in-chief at sema for, and recent author of "traffic, genius, rivalry, and delusion in the billion dollar race to go viral." i'm here to move units for both of you let me ask you, ben, i think i know where michelle sits on this because i asked you during the break, but mike johnson going to mar-a-lago to kiss the ring. on some level not surprising, he's the maga guy, at least now he is, but that's an indignity not even kevin mccarthy visited upon himself when he was speaker. >> i mean, there were parts of kevin mccarthy that were still part of a previous republican party, but i mean it's donald trump's republican party. mar-a-lago is the capital. you have to make that pilgrimage, it's just totally obvious there's no choice, there's no other party. >> and i think the thick irony, michelle, is that the only reason anything gets done for mike johnson in his speakership is because democrats do the right thing and preserve the sort of general function. >> it's not just an irony but i hate to use the word dialect in that. because he does all these things that make the base in order to kind of show any semblance of governing he has to do things that makes the base of the republican party unhappy. then he has to go and shore up his bona fides because he's going to have to do more things to make them unhappy. many of them care much more about rhetoric and silent culture than governing, it's the sort of two step you can pass a bunch of bills they're maybe not happy with as long as you show the proper fealty. >> the message is all that matters. the actual work is sort of an astrik of everything else. the fact it's had so little res dns in the party do you think mr. trump's latest request to do away with the republican debates and suggest that he -- i mean it's unclear whether he himself would do a debate if he's the nominee, does that matter? >> oh, yeah, i think inwhole thing comes crashing down. this is going to be the thing. no, of course not. i think haze supporters, i think it's the same it was more in 2016 -- it's more like 2016 and 2020 people -- he's a vehicle for expressing anger at the status quo and any criticism of him that represents the status quo seems to reinforce his support. >> if that is true that none of it matters because he has become an emotional vehicle for american grievance and sense of injustice and victim hood, what then is the utility -- what does biden do, michelle? how do you win if presumably biden will be the nominee and trump is the nominee, how do you combat such an elusive enemy. >> let me go back on this idea nothing matters, which is something we heard a lot from 2016 to 2020, because i actually think that can be an alibi for republicans who don't want to do anything not to do anything. john kelly is out there saying i told people these disgusting things trump said about the troops. but he told them unanimously when i wasn't in office. people could easily discount it because kelly wasn't up there saying it, and then he puts his name to it when trump wasn't there. i actually think it would have an impact if a bunch of former trump officials if kelly, bill barr, basically all of them who -- >> basically everyone except stephen miller and sarah huckabee, if they started making ads and made a group trump cabinet ministers against trump, maybe that wouldn't make a difference, but that's not an excuse for not trying. i think there's this learned helplessness because he's such a juggernaut. but actually, you know, donald trump was very unpopular and is very unpopular, and part of that is because people are constantly speaking out against him and talking about what a disaster he was. i mean for biden it's a difficult moment right now because people aren't really tuned into politics. they're sick of the whole thing. they're depressed about their options. but i think people -- compared today maybe like the dobbs decision, the dobbs decision was leaked. we all knew it was coming, but it doesn't make that much on an impact when it leaked, it still wasn't real. then it happened and it was an earthquake. there's these moments even when you know they're coming, they're still pivot points whether that be donald trump's convision, whether that be the convention. you know, there's things going to happen that are going to raise the salience. >> let's follow on that for a moment in terms of if you are going to talk about donald trump, what do you focus on? there's a whole lot of conflicting guidance out there and a lot of different pieces of reporting. a former trump official unnamed tells "the washington post" the timing is a strategy. you want to tell people at the last minute what kind of crazy they might be getting again. i don't think it works until it's september or october. meanwhile, "the times" reports that democrats would rather news networks carry mr. trump's rallies live. to find the ral es live people need to find a fringy far right streamer like news max. it's led to amnesia not having him as the rallies. how do you make heads or tails about conflicting ideas what is most impactful in this kind of saturated landscape? >> i think that latter point is really interesting because there was a sort of immediate consensus we cover trump too much and we sort of allowed him to existence and if we turned away from him that whole thing would subside. that obviously was totally false. i think the other challenge pointing out is the issues that he ran on, immigration, crime, those were not actually the most salient issues for a lot of voters. they are much more salient now, and that's also a reality. >> do you have a position as you know as a media barren yourself. >> we should cover him. i think that was sort of delusional. >> and do you think, michelle, more exhaustive coverage of what donald trump is saying -- and i will say as people who cover donald trump a lot, the focus has been the criminal trials because that is terror incognito. >> no one is going to accuse you of censoring donald trump. >> there have been few foothold but less policy discussions about legal matters. >> or the kind of leaks he's thinking about setting up mass internment camps, he uses kind of hitlarian language about extra palting vermin and -- >> we have covered that part, yes. >> i also think there's revisionist history, and when people look back on 2016 they were returning his rallies almost as a sort of -- people were sort of gawking at them. they were kind of giggling about it. and so they -- i think that the media did help build him up kind of unwittingly because it was getting such ratings and it was such a spectacle and they didn't realize how dangerous that is. i think that's different than showing clips of donald trump sounding like moose leany or showing clips of donald trump praising the kind of great heroes of january 6th and singing with the january 6th choir. i do think donald trump running now he's also been a sinter authoritarian figure. he's more so now in a way that i don't think you see unless you either consume a lot of political news or are kind of within his orbit. >> and you are two different people probably depending on where you land in those nonconcentric circles. michelle goldberg, and ben smith, my friends, it's great to see you. thanks for spending part of your early holiday with me. congressman jamal bowman joins me to talk about the struggle between warring factions inside his party and what the president should do about it. rty and whatt should do about it we planned well for retirement, but i wish we had more cash. you think those two have any idea? 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>> well, thank you for saying that i have a big heart. >> well, she said that. >> no, thank you to her to saying that. i don't think they're irreconcilable. i think for a very long time we've been having one conversation without the other. we have been saying for so long we're pro-israel. proisrael's right to exist, proisrael's right to defend itself and self-determination, but we haven't been saying the same thing about palestinians. and so what i've been trying to communicate -- and this is based on my learning. i worked closely with americans now, peace, jewish voices for peace and many organizations. israel's safety and security is directly connected to palestinian freedom, safety, and security. so we've been using a lot of rhetoric around a two-state solution for decades. and when i went there i saw that we are nowhere near a two-state solution. myself as a sitting member of congress could not walk through certain checkpoints in the west bank because i wasn't jewish. so we're using rhetoric, but our policies aren't matching the rhetoric, and our policies aren't matching the urgency of the moment. october 7th was a horrible day, horrific day and hamas must be condemned, and we must get the hostages back absolutely. but condemnation is only step one. how are we going to do the work to actually get to a state for palestinians and do the work here to bring communities together around education engagement so we can deal with anti-semitism in a real way, islamaphobia in a real way? racism, sexism, and all the -isms that continue to plague us. >> i've got to bring in president biden because there are new numbers nbc has out about the president's support among young people and black voters. and i believe -- and i don't have the numbers with me here, but i believe it is 70% of voters 18 to 35 do not agree with the way this president has handled the situation -- the war in gaza. what -- talk to me about -- what do you attribute that to? is that the sort of one-sidedness as you call it in this conversation? and then i want to talk to you about the way this intersects with the black experience. >> first, in terms of young voters what does the president need to do differently? >> well, it's going to be tough, and it is tough because young voters were already upset over a variety of things including how he's handled the climate issue. he's done some good thing, and he's kind of playing a yo-yo with him. he does good things and he comes in and does some things that pushes them away. in response to the israel-gaza conflict, again the one-sidedness of it has really turned young people away. and it's not just the president. it's congress for the most part. i'm in a small minority calling for a cease-fire. i mean the -- it's growing a little bit. but the president hadn't done that, and inyoung people they want peace. they want justice. they want a diplomatic response to what's going on. they want us to spend more money on education and jobs and climate and keeping people out of prison and health care than we spend on war. and this president at the moment is not showing the capacity to do that in the party and the congress, and not just the party, the whole of congress isn't showing the capacity to do that. i think it's a combination of these things that have been turned off and people of color have been turned off for a while because lack of comprehensive immigration reform if you talk about the latino community and no conversation at all about repperations if you talk about the black community. we're spending hundreds of billions of dollars every year on weapons and war, but we can't have a conversation about repperations? >> do you think his position on israel and gaza -- the israel war with hamas has anything to do with his i think he's lost about 15% of the black vote in this latest nbc polling. do you think that has anything to do with how he's talked about this conflight in particular ini know the great writer on race in america saw a lot of similarities in terms of the experience of what is happening with palestinians, the lack of mobility, the lack of representation and the black experience in america. what's your reaction to that? >> yeah, even before i went to the west bank -- not on my own but with j street i spoke to israeli and palestinian scholars over the phone just to learn more about it. and one of them i forget his name told me at we're at the civil rights era moment here in the west bank. this is like jim crow. and when i heard him say that i felt what he was saying because i didn't didn't live during the jim crow south. i read about it. and when i went there it felt suffocating, it felt immobile. as a sitting member of congress who has voted in support of the iron dome, right, so i felt what he was talking about there. >> it is an extraordinarily complicated moment for a lot of people. it's a wrenching moment for a very specific grume of people. i'm deeply grateful for your time and thoughts. i know it's complicated. thank you for joining me tonight. thanks for your time. we'll be right back. tonight. thanks for your time we'll be right back. goli, taste your goals. goli, taste your goals. that's our show. "way too early" with jonathan lemire is coming up next. a significant diplomatic breakthrough in the middle east. there's a tentative deal to release dozens of hostages who have been

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