once. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> you only get one at these in a lifetime. >> the reason that i can carry on, it's because of family community and love. >> please watch this film, unconditional. ericsson msnbc thanksgiving day at eight pm eastern. it is exclusively streaming on peacock throughout the november. on that note, i wish you a good night. from all of our colleagues across the networks of nbc news, thank you for staying up late with me. i'll see you at the end of tomorrow. i'll see you at the end of tomorrow >> >> thank you to you at home for joining us sarah. we begin with breaking news this evening, the israeli government as voted to accept a deal that would free 50 hostages currently being held by the terrace group hamas. that is according to the office of prime minister benjamin netanyahu. the exact details of this deal with hamas are not yet known. what we do know is that the 50 hostages are all women and children, and they would be exchanged for 150 palestinian women and children currently being held in israeli prisons. they deal also includes a four -day cease-fire to allow for those exchanges and for more humanitarian aid to enter into gaza. that cease-fire also may have the potential to be extended pending the release of additional hostages. joining us now from that region is nbc news correspondent, erin maclachlan, who is in tel aviv tonight. erin, what are you hearing about the latest contours of the deal? >> we are learning more from the israeli government. they just put out a statement. let me read you what they have to say. saying that the government of israel is obligated to return home all of the hostages. tonight, the government has approved the outline of the first stage of achieving this goal, according to which, at least 50 hostages, women and children, will be released over four days, during which, a pause in the fighting will be held. the release of every additional ten hostages will result in one additional day. the government of zero, the idf and the security forces will continue the war in order to return home all of the hostages, complete the elimination of hamas and ensure that there will be no new threat to the state of israel from gaza. what is notably absent from this list announcement, from the israeli government is any mention of palestinian prisoners, the 150 women and children that according to a senior israeli official, was part of this agreement to be released. that is still in fact the case. we are waiting for more details to be released, specific to the announcement from the government of qatar, a key intermediary in the negotiations. but if those palestinian prisoners are, in fact, part of this deal, then that will tack on another 24 hours in which the victims of those attacks, israeli victims, we'll have the opportunity to challenge this agreement to the israeli supreme court. in the past, when this has happened, the supreme court has sided with the government and ratified this deal. again, we're waiting for more of the really critical specifics, as are the families of the hostages. this is an open and gaping wound for them. they have entered this agonizing pain for more than six weeks. earlier today, i was speaking to thomas hand, a single father, a nine-year-old, emily hand. on october 7th, emily was sitting over at a friends house. hamas militants stormed her kibbutz, connecting her. initially, thomas was told that she was dead. weeks later, the israeli military came back and told him that she was alive, believed to be a hostage in gaza. i was exchanging text messages with him earlier today. he texted me, quote, so far, so good. but the fact is, he does not know. there's been no proof of life for emily, so there's no way for him at this point to know if she is in fact part of the deal. although, we understand that, once and if israelis get the list of the released hostages is part of the agreement, then the families will be individually notified. >> a lot of the agonizing wait continues. it's clear. we'll be back for more from tel aviv, erin maclachlan, thank you for that essential reporting. i want to turn now to chris o'leary, former director of hostage recovery for the u.s. government and now, senior vice president of global operations at least the phone group. chris, thanks for being here. >> understanding that there is a lot we don't know yet, what are your initial impressions a deal that has been announced? >> i think it's likely that it will go through. there is too much domestic pressure. israel and international pressure as well for israelis to agree to this deal. there were concessions that they don't want to meet -- the suspension of collection of intelligence, reconnaissance, the drones, it's not something that any military member in their right mind will agree to. hamas attacked israel, a month and a half ago, did not want the cluster as for five days and assume that they will do their thing. that is the challenge here. the negotiator police and military requirements for goals to continue to pursue the feet of hamas and also regain control of the other hostages. some of these hostages will need to be rescued at some point. >> how optimistic are you about the long term prospects for all of the hostages given that there are 50 here, roughly a fifth of the hostages that we know about that are being held in gaza. >> i don't want to rain on the parade today. this is good news. once it goes through, for the 50 victims, that will be released. also, for their families, obviously. it's also an ominous sign that it took this long to release 50 women and children, and hamas asked for these few demands. how difficult is it going to be to get the idf numbers out, and, that is probably going to require the defeat of hamas or hostage rescue efforts, as we go down the line. >> can i ask a basic question, but given the sort of asymmetrical numbers from previous hostage releases, where one hostage, one israeli hostage has been extreme, up to 1500 other hostages, is it really a bad sign that it is 50 to 1:50, given history here? tell me why you think this is a lot of demands, relative to other negotiations? >> that's not an unreasonable number. hamas has different priorities now than they did back then. the party now is to buy time. they are looking to survive to fight another day. they're looking as they are buying time for the international support and domestic support in israel, for the military offensive. it already has. we have seen it. but also looking at increasing pressure from the hasse's families and the military. these two primary objectives, to defeat hamas and recovered the hostages could not be more in competition with each other. hamas is looking to buy time to change the narrative, as they can, from who is the monster to who is the victim, and revert. that they have had some success to this. point >> yes, and some people would argue that israel's assault in gaza, that has taken 14,000 lives, has assad directly and. i do want to ask how the so far has come to be. netanyahu is saying that he asked president biden to intervene, and that biden, i believe, improved the terms according to netanyahu's office. what could that mean? we heard the qataris mentioned, as the principal negotiators and all of this. how do the american government fits in all this? >> the american government has an incredible standard for hostage recovery, brought out through the obama administration, after a failure. president obama did a complete review of how we address the cases, and filled a hole in the u.s. government. now we have a whole anti government or there shouldn't be. we have special operations, the policy center ice with our -- the recent we have such a robust relationship with the qataris, it's because we worked together. the u.s. has an influential role in this, but at the end of the day, the american hostages are also israeli citizens. we are only there to influence and snared these things, as are the qataris. but we really can't make a demands here. we are only in a position where we can assist, advise, provide intelligence, but we can't really demand. >> in terms of the timetable here, we know that there are very stipulation still being worked out, what is your expectation when you say that the families of military hostages, maybe have to wait a long time? if you were advising them, if they were coming to you saying, when, when? if there is any kind of timeline, how would you set expectations? >> i would manage their expectations and beat eric with them. the u.s. government as a team of counselors that work with the family's. you have to be straight, dark with them, be sure that the intelligence with their. you have to get them counseling and support. this is an incredibly hard time for all of these folks. they're not sleeping. it cannot go on for years without sleeping. you have to manage their health, manage their well-being, fund them with aid and support, because these people can't work, they can go back. you have to make them part of the recovery process. you have to integrate them to the negotiations. they have some ideas, their family members, this one's a little more unique than individual cases, but they still have to be heard in the process. >> all we know is that the next 24, 48, 72 hours, will be moments of indignation for some families and incredibly dashed hopes for others. we focus on the good news that we know at this hour, which is that a deal had been approved. chris o'leary, thank you so much for your time and expertise on all of this. >> thank you. >> we have a lot more ahead tonight. former trump officials are again sounding the alarm about the dangers of a second trump administration. is anyone listening? plus, are the courts treading lightly when it comes to trying cases against a once and possibly future president. we'll have more on that right after the break. detect this: living with hiv, i learned i can stay undetectable with fewer medicines. that's why i switched to dovato. dovato is a complete hiv treatment for some adults. no other complete hiv pill uses fewer medicines to help keep you undetectable than dovato. detect this: most hiv pills contain 3 or 4 medicines. dovato is as effective with just 2. if you have hepatitis b, don't stop dovato without talking to your doctor. don't take dovato if you're allergic to its ingredients or taking dofetilide. this can cause serious or life-threatening side effects. if you have a rash or allergic reaction symptoms, stop dovato and get medical help right away. serious or life-threatening lactic acid buildup and liver problems can occur. tell your doctor if you have kidney or liver problems, or if you are pregnant, breastfeeding, or considering pregnancy. dovato may harm an unborn baby. most common side effects are headache, nausea, diarrhea, trouble sleeping, tiredness, and anxiety. detect this: i stay undetectable with fewer medicines. ask your doctor about switching to dovato. ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ cargurus. shop. buy. sell. online. do you struggle with occasional nerve aches in your hands or feet? try nervive nerve relief from the world's number one nerve care company. nervive contains ala to relieve nerve aches, and b-complex vitamins to fortify healthy nerves. try nervive. and, try nervive pain relieving roll-on. in order for small businesses to thrive, they need to be smart, efficient, savvy. making the most of every opportunity. that's why comcast business is introducing the small business bonus. for a limited time you can get up to a $1000 prepaid card with qualifying internet. yep, $1000. so switch to business internet from the company with the largest fastest reliable network and that powers more businesses than anyone else. learn how you can get $1000 back for your business today. today in one along trump's comcast business. powering possibilities. codefendants, harrison floyd, was back in georgia state court, in an echo of what we have seen from former president trump himself, mr. floyd has been making post on social media, discussing and even tagging witnesses in this case. prosecutors allege that that could be witness intimidation. the issue is seen as so important that fulton county d. a. fani willis for self showed up to make the states case. she was incredibly direct. >> the state is requesting so that there is no, that bond be revoked and he be remanded back into custody for violating conditions of the bond. >> d. a. willis asked for harrison floyd to be put back in jail for making statements that could intimidate witnesses. ultimately the judge in this case denied that request and instead imposed a broader and stricter order limiting mr. floyd's speech. the judge ordered floyd to not make any public statements concerning any codefendants or witnesses, and to delete the social media posts where he had made those statements already. but the thing that i think is important here is that jail was on the table. harrison floyd is charged with being, essentially, upon, and donald trump's larger alleged plot to overturn the results of the 2020 election. floyd's social media reach is puny compared to trump's massive bully pulpit. but nonetheless, jail was on the table, and very much could still be on the table in the future for harrison floyd. jail time is not even really being considered for mr. trump, either in fulton county, georgia, or his own bond conditions are more specific than harrison floyd's were, or in federal court in d. c., a little over a month ago trump was given a narrow gag order in jack smith's federal election interference case. the broad strokes of that gag order barred trump from doing anything that could intimidate witnesses, threatened court staff, or threaten prosecutors involved in that case. trump's legal team has managed to get that gag order frozen twice now, while it appeals to higher courts. you might think that given the fact that trump is very actively appealing this gag order, that he would try to somehow show it was a needed and wouldn't do anything that could be seen as intimidating witnesses or court staff or jack smith and his prosecutorial team. you would be wrong. this was trump at a campaign event earlier this month. >> we have deranged judgment. have you ever heard of it? a lovely man. heavy overseen with since the purple hat? man, he's a lovely man. the trump hating prosecutor in the case is his wife and family despised me much more than he does, and he decides, i think he's about ten, on 15 on a scale of ten. >> if that mention of jack smith's family was not a clear enough threat's, trump followed it up two days later with this post on truth social. deranged jack smith will end up in a mental institution by the time of my next term as president is successfully completed. trump has also name checked and posted intimidating statements about potential witnesses, including his former attorney general bill barr, is former chief of staff mark meadows, and his former vice president, mike pence, as well as his former lawyers, jenna ellis and sidney powell. but again, the idea of revoking trump's bond, of punishing him with state jail time for this kind of intimidation, that has yet to be put on the table in either case. and while harrison floyd's hearing today ended with the judge imposing a broader instructor order controlling harrison floyd's speech, donald trump had his own hearing about his gag order yesterday. the under saw was the appeals court the may narrow trump gag. order they will have to use a careful scalpel to carve out a narrow order that protects witnesses while not inhibiting trump as a presidential candidate. you can see the legal system is trending very very carefully here. one would say maybe even likely. the net result of that is that donald trump gets to have it both ways. at campaign rallies trump gets to use the cases against him to score political points. >> every time i'm indicted i consider it a great badge of honor, because i'm being indicted for you. thanks a lot, everybody. i appreciate it. [applause] >> meanwhile in court he's using his campaign as a shield to ensure treatment that no other defendant would get. so how is donald trump held accountable here? and how can our legal system protect the people he could intimidate in the meantime. this is, after all, what he posted today. >> why do you think that fani and alvin and letitia and of course the deranged one, jack smith, took so long and very publicly they leaked everything, started their work so late. they could have started years ago. it's called election interference and prosecutorial misconduct. >> joining me now is former acting u.s. solicitor genuine general neil castillo. neil, thank you for helping me understand how the court is approaching the complicated subject and look complicated offended that is donald trump. first, what is your expectation for this appeals court ruling for the gag order? is it going to be narrower? just how punitive is it going to be? >> the argument yesterday was in front of our nation's second highest court, street sternly where are well prepared, well respected judges, and deals but bottom line is that trump's lawyer could not answer the simple questions that the court posed, including, like, what is your standard, criminal defendants can just say anything they want and alike? i think that basically at the end of the argument i was left thinking that trump will lose for the first time in american history a former president will be gagged by a court. i think that the order will be narrowed a little bit because judge chutkan, the trial judge, said that trump could attack the prosecutor, jack smith, but i think that there was there was some cause of concern among those judges. not something trump's lawyer pushed as much. but it sounds like the court brought ups on its own. i think ultimately trump loses and donald trump will be gagged. if he violates those gag orders, we will get into the situation of possible jail time being on the line. >> can you talk more about that, what neal, possible jail time? i understand it's complicated, but at the same time he isn't being treated like any other defendant here. and he is loathe to obey anybody's orders. i wonder if you think we are going to get to the point where there has to be a real robust discussion about jailing the former president? >> i could not agree with you more about what you just said. if you want to see unequal treatment in our judicial system, look no further than the way the courts have treated donald trump or indeed his codefendant today. they are afforded leniency in second chances than the average defendant could never dream of. time and time again we are seeing trump as codefendants get the benefit of the doubt. i do think that patience is wearing thin among the courts as well. and so i do think that if trump, after this new revised gag orders imposed, violates it in an intentional way, which, i suspect he very well may do because he's incapable of following any sort of rules, decorum, good behavior, and alike, i do think that we're going to see that. yesterday i was talking with lawrence o'donnell and i said look, the country is watching this gag order hearing. whatever donald trump does, other defendants and other cases are gonna do it, whether it's a mafia case, a drug case, whatever. this sets a precedent for norm breaking behavior. we didn't have to wait a day to see the corrosive effects of trump's arguments already, because in fulton county georgia harrison floyd was basically saying, yeah, it's my first amendment right to intimidate witnesses. this is out of control already. i think that the courts will put it back in the bottle, the toothpaste in the tube, whatever, and they have to act quickly. >> i want to ask you a broader ethical question, which is, the notion of running for office, and how deferential you think the courts should be on anything from a gag order to the scheduling of the trials. i mean, fani willis made the point that, what did she say, it would be a really sad day if, when you're under investigation for a shoplifting charge, you go run for city council to stop the investigation. we joke about it. to some degree i think that is a little levity embedded in that, but it's not an un-serious possibility, the idea that you shield yourself from prosecution by running for higher office. trump is the first of many. trump breaks the mold, i should say, but could be, you know, at the vanguard here. i wonder how concerned the courts should be about the way in which he is effectively weaponizing his candidacy for his defense. >> they should be gravely concerned. you're exactly right. remember, donald trump escaped indictment before when he was president because he said, and bill barr, his attorney general said, the sitting president cannot be indicted. so then he leaves office, not necessarily unfairly, but he eventually leaves, and now his argument is, a guy who is running for president can't be indicted. and then if he wins, he's going to say, again, a sitting president can't be indicted. there's no more fundamental principle in our law. we go back to the early to when our founders thought, no person is above the law. that is why we fought off the revolution against king george the third, where donald trump is trying to do is reenact this through these bogus immunity claims from prosecution. then, as you say, it's also by the scheduling. it's baffling to me why georgia is going to trial in august of 2024. fulton county case. i don't understand that. sam bankman-fried was indicted a few months ago. he's already been convicted. i have the privilege of doing the prosecution, the george floyd prosecution against derek chauvin, that murder happened three years ago. we already had the trial, had the appeal, heads united states marine corps yesterday reject derek chauvin's appeal. why trump gets these massive delays, both in the fulton county cases as well as in the mar-a-lago case and stolen documents, is beyond me. i can't begin to understand. it >> yeah, and the system might be rigged in trump's favor, which is effectively the opposite of what he has been fay saying. neal katyal, thank you so much for your time tonight, my friend. coming, up president biden is involved in two battles, the war in gaza and the war about gaza. congressman jamal bowman joins me to talk about what comes next for democrats. but first, republicans can't seem to quit donald trump, no matter how many republicans tell him they should. more on that, after the break. you're replacing me? 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some people don't like my attitude, but my attitude is what got us here. >> for any other candidate, 91 felony charges and reckless defiance in the face of that might spell political death, but not for one donald j trump. the washington post this week spoke to 16 of trump's former advisers, who are wondering whether it's even worth trying to stop him. here's his former's chief of staff, john kelly. >> i came out and told people what he said about wounded soldiers and it didn't have half a bounce. his attorney general bill barr came out and not half a bounce. if anything, his numbers go up. there is no better example of trump's enduring grip on this party than the behavior of newly elected speaker mike johnson, a man who has already seen the legislative reality that nothing can get done in the house with senate democratic votes. but speaker johnson is not likely to stay speaker johnson without the support of maga republicans, and so mr. johnson's double down on his allegiance to trump by visiting trump at mar-a-lago last night. there is the photo. so yes, alarm bells are being sounded, but apparently no one in the parties listening. joining us now is michelle goldberg, opinion columnist for the new york times, and ben smith, editor in chief of semafor, and recent author of traffic, genius, rivalry, and delusion in the billion dollar race to go viral. >> you are there. >> i'm gonna move units, for both of you. new york times copies and books. let me ask you, ban. i feel like i know where michelle sits on, this because after during the break, but mike johnson going to mar-a-lago to kiss the ring. on some level, not surprising. he's a maga guy. at least now he is. but that's an indignity that not even kevin mccarthy visited upon himself when he was speaker. >> there are parts of kevin mccarthy that were part of a previous republican party. but it's dom trump's party. he lives at mar-a-lago. you have to make that pilgrimage. >> i think the thick irony, michele, is that the only reason anything gets done for mike johnson and his speakership is because democrats do the right thing and preserve this sort of general functions of government. >> not just an irony. also kind of a dialectic. he does all these things that make the base in order to kind of show it to someone's of governing they have to make the base of the republican party unhappy. so that he has to go inshore up his -- because he's gonna have to do more things to make them unhappy. because they care, many of them care much more about rhetoric and silent culture than governing, it's a sort of to step that you have half a bunch of bills that maybe they're not happy with his lungs to show the proper slavish fealty. >> the message is all that matters, the actual work is an asterisk to everything else. it's what it seems like. i wonder, ben, when you go through the laundry list of people who have said donald trump is a danger to democracy, i mean mike johnson was sort of on that list in 2015 himself, and the facts it is had so little residents inside the party, you think that mr. trump's latest request, to do away with the debates, the republican debates, and suggest that, i mean, it's unclear whether he himself would do a debate if he's the nominee. does that matter? >> oh yeah, the whole thing is gonna come crashing down. [laughter] the debate thing is gonna be the. thing of course not, it's the same as it was in 2016, but more like 2016 and 2020, in that he's a vehicle for expressing anger at the status quo and any criticism of him that represents the status quo seems to reinforce his support. >> if that is true, but none of it matters because he has become an emotional vehicle for american grievance and sense of injustice and victimhood, watch, then, is the utility, what does biden do, michelle? how do you win, if presuming biden will be the nominee and trump is the nominee, how do you combat such -- >> let me go back on this idea that nothing matters that we have heard a lot from 2016 to 2020. because i actually think that could be an alibi for republicans who don't want to do anything, do not have to do anything. john kelly is out there saying i told everyone these disgusting things that trump said about the troops. he told them anonymously in the atlantic, until trump was out of office. so the people who didn't want to discount it could easily discounted because kelley wasn't up there saying it. then he finally puts his name to it once trump is no longer there. maybe it wouldn't have an impact if a bunch of former trump officials, kelly, bill barr, basically all of them who -- >> everyone who ever worked for trump? >> everyone who ever worked for trump except stephen miller and sarah huckabee, if they all started making ads, creating trump cabinet ministers against trump, maybe it wouldn't make a big difference. but that's not an excuse for not trying. and i just think that there is a kind of learned helplessness, because he's such a juggernaut. but actually donald trump was very unpopular and is very unpopular, and part of that is people are constantly speaking out against him and talking about what disaster he was. for biden i think it's a difficult moment right now because people aren't really tuned into politics. they're sick of the whole thing. they were depressed about their options. but you can compare maybe to the dobbs decision. the dobbs decision was leaked. we all knew it was coming. but it did make that much of it impact when it was leaked. it still wasn't real. then it happened, and it was an earthquake. so there are moments that, even though you know they're coming, they're still pivot points, whether that be donald trump's conviction, whether that be the convention, you know, there's things that are gonna happen. >> let's follow on that for a moment, in terms of, if you are gonna talk about on trump, what do you focus on? i mean there's a whole lot of conflicting guidance out there and a lot of different pieces of reporting. a former trump official, unnamed, tells the washington post that timing is a crucial part of the strategy. you want to remind people at the last minute what kind of crazy that might be getting again. i don't think it works until it's september or october. meanwhile, the times reports that democrats would raw their news networks carry trump's rallies live, to watch a trump rally live now viewers need to find fringy far-right platform like newsmax. it has led to amnesia not having him alive at the rallies. how do you make heads or tails over those conflicting ideas about what is most impactful in this kind of saturated landscape? >> that latter point is really interesting because it was an immediate consensus that we cover trump too much and we sort of allowed him to insist, and if we turned away from him, the whole thing would subside, that obviously was totally false. zero connection with his approval ratings and how much attention he's getting. i think the other challenge that they wrote about in semafor this morning, the issues that he ran on, immigration, fine. 2016 those weren't the most salient issues for a lot of. others they are more salient now and that's also a reality. so do you have a position, as a media baron yourself? >> i think that was sort of delusional. >> do you think, michelle, the more exhaustive coverage a what don trump is saying, and i will say, people who covered donald trump a lot, the focus has been the criminal trials, because that is tearing could neto. >> nobody's gonna accuse you of censoring donald trump. >> i think that's fair to say. but there have been fewer footholds, i will say, but there's generally less discussion over trump policy manners like immigration or crime. >> also leaks that he's thinking of setting up mass internment camps, that he uses kind of how it hitlerian language about ex debating vermin. we >> have covered that part. >> i also think there is revisionist history. when people look back in 2016, they were running his rallies almost as a sort of, people were sort of gawking at them. they were kind of giggling about it. and so i think in the media did help build him up, kind of unwittingly, because it was getting such ratings and it was such a spectacle, they didn't realize how dangerous that. is anyone it's very different than showing clips of donald trump sounding like mussolini or trips of donald trump praising the kind of great heroes of january six in the singing with the january six choir. i just think donald trump is running now is, he's always been a sinister authoritarian figure, more so now in a way that i don't think you see unless you either consume a lot of political news or are within his orbit. >> and you are two different people, probably. depending on where you land in those non concentric circle circles. michelle goldberg, ben smith, thank you for spending the early part of thanksgiving holiday. we have more tonight. congressman jamal bowman shows me about the struggle between warring factions inside his party, and what the president should do about it. my husband and i have never been more active. shingles doesn't care. i go to spin classes with my coworkers. good for you, shingles doesn't care. because no matter how healthy you feel, your risk of shingles sharply increases after age 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most evident in the debate between pro israel democrats and the squad. congressman bowman is already facing a potential challenge from westchester county georgia latimer, who says he will make a final decision after he comes back from a solidarity visit to israel. others, cori bush, some, really rishi tlaib are expected to face potential primary challengers as well. as michelle goldberg writes in the new york times, a series of ugly primary campaigns fought over israel will only widen the progressive political divide. but with horror at conditions in gaza and jewish fear both ratcheting up, an inter party clash over the future of the squad is now looks inevitable. jeremy's new york congressman democrat jamaal bowman. congressman thank you for coming to talk about this. i know it's a tip tricky topic, a difficult topic. but talk to me a little bit about what this moment has been like as you sort of navigated constituency, really, more pronounced in its division than many other members of congress. >> yeah. it's been a traumatic moment. it's been a painful moment. it's been a moment filled with grief and suffering by my jewish constituents as well as my muslim constituents. and so it has been multi layered. you have the behavior of these really government, which needs to be critiqued very strongly, in my belief. you have the impact of that critique on the jewish community, both vocally in my district in globally. you know muslims who felt erased in this whole conversation and even dehumanized as well. when you hear some of the rhetoric coming from israeli officials towards palestinians, referring to them as animals. so it's been multi layered, multi faceted, filled with very strong motion. what i have tried to do is just absorb it, to stand in the middle of it, learn from it, and then use what i learned to govern accordingly in a way that meets the needs of a diverse constituency, as we mentioned. >> i was struck, michelle goldberg, our guest in the previous section, followed your campaign as you tried to navigate meetings with constituents over on this topic, and she quotes one woman who was involved, i believe with your campaign at one point, dan de diane love it, said polarization over the congrats gruesome and was tearing apart local democrats. i love him personally, was amazing, and he was the same warm and open who harbored person that he was today. this is at the event you. had but she had come to believe their views on the middle east are irreconcilable. when you hear that, what is your reaction to that? >> thank you for saying that that i have a big heart. >> well she said that. >> well thank you to her for saying that. i don't think they are irreconcilable. i think for a very long time we have been having one conversation without the other. we have been saying for so long we are pro israel, pro israel right to exist, right to defend itself but we have incident think about palestinians. i worked very closely with americans for peace, now if not now, jewish voices for peace, and many organizations. israel's safety and security is directly connected to palestinian freedom, safety, and security. so we have been using a lot of rhetoric around the two state solution for decades. and when i went there i saw that we had nowhere near a two state solution. myself as a sitting member of congress cannot walk through certain checkpoints in the west bank because i was jewish. so we're using rhetoric but our policies aren't matching the rhetoric in our policies are matching the urgency of the moment. ok trouble sevens was a horrible day, a horrific day. hamas must be condemned. we must get the hostages back absolutely. but condemnation is only step one. how are we going to do the work to actually get to a state with palestinians, and how can we bring parties together around engagement so we can deal with antisemitism in islamophobia in a real way, and all the isms that continue to plague us in a real way? we haven't done it here, and we're not doing it globally. >> when you say we haven't done it here, i've got to bring in president biden, because there is, there are new numbers than nbc has out about the presidents support among young people and black voters. i believe, and i don't have the numbers with me here, but i believe it is 70% of voters 18 to 35 do not agree with the way this president has handled the situation, the war in gaza. what, talk to me about what do you attribute that to? is that the sort of one side in this, as you call it, in this conversation? and then i want to talk to you about the way that this intersects with a black experience. first, in terms of voters, what does the president need to do differently? >> it's going to be tough, and it is tough because young voters will already upset over a variety of things including how he has handled the climate issue. he has done some good things, kind of playing a yo-yo with him, he's done some good things and then he they come in, and he does something else to push them away. the response to israel gaza conflict, again, the one-sided-ness of it has really turned young people away and the -- community as well. and it's not just the president, it's congress, for the most part, i mean i'm in a small minority calling for a cease-fire. it's going a little bit, starting like six or eight, but now it's up to 30, which is really good, but the president hasn't done that. and young people, they want peace. they want justice. they want a diplomatic response to what's going on. they want to see us to spend more money on education and jobs and climate and keeping people out of prison and health care than we spend on our war. this president, at the moment, is not showing the capacity to do that, and the party, in the congress, not just the party, all of congress is showing the capacity to do that. so i think it's a combination of these things turning young people off, and people of color have been turned off for a while because of lack of comprehensive immigration reform, if you're talking about the latino community. and no conversation at all about reparations are talking about the black community. but we're spending hundreds of billions of dollars every year on weapons of war but we can't even have a conversation about reparations? those are the things that are happening now. >> do you think his position on israel and gaza, the israel war with hamas has anything to do with his, i think he's lost about 15% of the black vote in this latest nbc polling, do you think that has anything to do with how he has talked about this conflict in particular? i know the rate great writer on a mare race in america saw similarities in terms of the experience of what is happening with palestinians, the lack of mobility, the lack of representation, and the black experience in america. what's your reaction to that? >> yeah, even before i went to the west bank, not in my own, but with -- i spoke to israeli and palestinian scholars over the phone just to learn more about it. one of them, i forget his name, told me that we are at the civil rights era moment here in the west bank. this is our jim crow. and when i heard him say that i felt what he was saying because -- headline lived i didn't live during the jim crow south, but i read about. it when i went there it felt like that. it felt suffocating, stifling, immobile. and again, for me, is a sitting member of congress who has voted in support of the iron dome, i felt what he was talking about. there it's >> an extraordinarily complicated moment for a lot of people. it's a wrenching moment for a very specific group of people. i'm deeply grateful for your time and thoughts. i know you are complicated. thank you for joining me tonight. congressman jamaal bowman, thank you for your time. we'll be right back. dealdash.com, online auctions since 2009. this playstation 5 sold for only 50 cents. this ipad pro sold for less than $34. and this nintendo switch, sold for less 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