Transcripts For MSNBCW The 20240702

>> also here on state's exhibit number 8 in the -- we'll call it the second sentence here does he request a response. what does he state? >> look, the truth is that georgia secretary of state and gabriel sterling are the piece of pop you should be mad at. >> that is fulton county d.a. fani willis questioning a prosecution witness about the social media posts of trump codefendant harrison floyd as she seeks to revoke floyd's bond for allegedly trying footo the fimidate witnesses i and codefendants online. and along with it a possible preef pause in the fight. plus, i have a very special announcement to make. i'm going to tell you all about it later in the show. but we begin tonight with your wish is my chand. i say this all the time on this show. scaring is caring. we've told you repeatedly on this show what would happen should donald trump return to the white house. but don't take it from me. take it from the legion of yes men waiting in the wings, the thousands being vet for a second trump term like mike davis, an attorney doing the most to prove exactly how he'd serve trump in his mission to exact revenge upon his perceived enemies with no one to stop him. my friend and colleague mehdi asawn recently discusseded the conservative activist lawyer who folks like white nationalist accomplice steve bannon are pitching as a trump attorney general, which david responded to on social media. he threatened to denaturalize and deport medhi who's british american adding he's already got his spate picked out in the d.c. gulog and he'd put in the cellblock. to be clear the issue isn't white wing media activists on tv trolling although the open on bigotry is appalling, it's the fact mike davis could actually be trump's attorney general in real life. so just remember that name. as bill punch of the philadelphia infirer knows the gulog touting lawyer takes the abstract warnings the u.s. democracy is on the line in the 2024 election and brings them to life. and he quotes them in veneer of respectability, a member of the federalist society. he worked under iowa senator chuck grassly when he chaired the senate judiciary committee. he also clerked for neil gorsuch and helped get brett kavanaugh on the court. most importantly, niek davis fits donald trump' chest list to a tee. one articulated in "the washington post" piece how the otherwise competent people who served in trump's white house do not want to see him elected. according to "the post" trump has argued while in the white house he listened to people he should not have and made bad hires particularly at the pentagon. this time, trump said, he'd look out for people who are loyal and smart. the second term in office people close to him say would have people who actually support president trump in the words of one advisor. mike davis is going all out to prove to trump he is one of those people. and make no mistake trump is already casting from a list of super loyalists for a hypothetical second term like some of the characters who already helped him plot a coup. trump has already pledged to bring back michael flynn, a one time security advisor trump pardoned after he took the qanon pledge. and he's in contention for a senior role at justice. trump might have to pardon him to make that job offer depending what happens in clark's trial next november. might as well throw in sidney powell while we're at it. also plotting a return ironic white nationalist dracula stephen miller who returned in a senior role, already planning the most spectacular migration crack down. a second trump term could also inside with a fully complicit trump congress led by christian house speaker mike johnson. he traveled to mar-a-lago to kiss the ring on monday, meeting with trump days after endorsing the 91-count indicted former president. and in yet another sign of the wholesale trumpification of the republican party, one of the few republicans who voted to impeach trump after january 6th, former republican congressman peter miger of michigan who lost a primary over his impeachment vote now says he would support trump if he was the party nominee. call it what you will, pathetic, embarrassing. it is, however, the republican party putting its full embrace around the man who in turn is making fascism is autocracy the center piece of his third run for the white house. as he did recently, calling his political opponents on the left vermin. "the new york times" details how that authoritarian language has experts deeply concerned. quote, they said the former president's increasingly intensive focus on perceive underternal enemies was a hallmark of dangerous totalitarian leaders. he has insinuated that the nation's top military general should be executed and called for the termination of parts of the constitution. if he wins back the white house, he has said he would have no choice but to imprison political opponents. which brings me back to potential second term trump attorney general mike davis who responded to reporting from our colleagues at "morning joe" about this verypressant warning about trump's second term plans including imprisoning his enemies by posting on the hell app formerly known as twitter dear president trump, your wish is my command. you're telling us -- they are telling us who they are. please believe them. joining me now is pulitzer prizewinner for "the new york times" magazine and creator of the 1619 project. she's the founder of the center for journalism and democracy at howard university which recently hosted the democracy summit. and michael steele, former rnc chair, msnbc political analyst and host of the michael steele podcast. i think the first time donald trump ran i was telling my producers there were people around using the f-word, fascist. and people saying this guy is a blinking light of fascist language and ideas and violence and sort of dreams and people just didn't take it seriously. do you perceive that particularly our profession, that the media is taking more seriously this "the new york times" piece suggesting maybe. what do you think? >> yes, i do think that our profession is belatedly taking it more seriously. as you said they're actually using the word fascist, so hedging a bet, right, saying other people are saying these are fascist-like tendencies, but we are seeing an understanding that this is serious and that so many of the characteristics of fascism that we seem to understand innately when we see it in other countries, we are seeing it right here and we're starting to recognize it. though, i still think we are still struggling with how do you cover a major presidential candidate who does appear to be acting in fascist ways. there's a sense that if you -- if you call it what it is and maybe you'll turn off readers or viewers, or maybe you will not be able to reach the people who he speaks to. but as i said at the summit, our job as journalists is to reflect truth and not power, and i think we are still struggling with how do you consistently cover trump in the way he needs to be covered? >> yeah, and speaking of struggles, michael steele, the republican party i think has given up the struggle. what i have perceived among republicans even sort of former normy republicans like elise stefanik and others their tactic in dealing with a fascist onslaught is get on the iltral, get onboard. mike johnson who is a christian nationalist, full stop, but now he's also down with the fascism. they're all kissing the ring. they all fall to their knees. kevin mccarthy did it, mitch mcconnell did it. mitchmic kaunl said do whatever you want, just give me the court. is there yet inside the republican party any hint of a willingness to fight this anywhere? >> it is in quiet corners, and that's part of my frustration and the frustration of a number of us who are trying to elevate the conversation inside the house because the call is coming from inside the house, right? the horror that you're afraid of is there behind you in the closet down the hall, and it's no longer in the closet. it's actually kind of roaming the halls and taking out members as they find them in various chambers and organizations and so forth. so the reality remains for the party is what does this become? you have still, joy, a number of folks in the house, certainly in the senate, some governors around the country in office right now who believe a trump will not be the nominee of the party at the end of the day, "b," will get bast this even if trump is the nominee, he'll lose in november of next year. and then "c," we can all go down the yellow brick road together, and america will largely not remember just how bad ass we were. and the fact is all three of those assumptions are wrong. everything about it is wrong, and so, you know, the idea of democracy has become a foreign concept, it has become "other" to them as an immigrant or migrant coming into the country or a transgendered child. that's how they're seeing the world right now. and, you know, those of us still inside the house it's like, okay, i think we need to head for the front porch because it's pretty scary up in here. >> yes, indeed. i want to read just really quickly "the new york times" highlights some of them, but there are certain tenants of fascism that scholars in this area understand, and i'll just read what "the new york times" wrote about that, and they talk about a few of them. according toistorian pater hayes. fassism is generally understood as an authoritarian far right system of government. it features a cultiveersonalty leader, check, a strong man leader check, and the repeated denigration of the rule of law. there is also kind of a normalization of violence against perceived elites including the media. we've seen, nicolle, and i know you have tweeted about it. i don't know what we call it "x," former twitter about the way the country has responded to violence overseas including violence against journalists and the kind of muted response even within the press to the record number of journalists who died, for instance, in gaza, and the kind of -- do you perceive within even our profession and within the country that we're already kind of primed to accept a great deal of violence without outrage? >> absolutely. we have seen this normalization, right, like when you think about trump's campaign the first time where he was literally stoking violence at his rallies and encouraging violence and in speaking about violence, and you can never forget him saying he could shoot someone in times square and people would still vote for him. and so what happens is when you -- you constantly have that rhetoric, then you do start to get a bit immune to it. and i think that's what's we're seeing. we're seeing that across the board. and i also think it's really important to just take a second and know we've never had multi-racial democracy in america except for the last 60 years. it has always been contested. so what we are seeing is a rise of this -- this strongman leader who is not concerned about, you know, his people were supporting him they're not concerned about economic anxiety, it's demographic anxiety. and they are not embracing a democracy if democracy means a lot of people of color and other folks get to decide who leads our country. and so this is our response. and yet violence a huge part of that. violence has always been papart of american politics. we just have pretended it hasn't been. >> and, you know, the reality is the one time we did try what 12 years of reconstruction was violently overthrown with ferocity. and michael steele, i feel like americans have a sense nothing bad can happen to us because we are the essential special nation, but we are really not that much different than countries like let's say argentina, which now has its own trump. trump is now praising this man who's threatening -- he's saying he's going to do a complete abortion ban. he was elected in large part due to high inflation. but there's is triple digits, and ours is like 3%. and he was mainly supported by young, angry men who say, yeah, ban abortion, there's a sort of a factor or whatever it is, if conditions aren't that different, economic complaints, demographic complaints, complaints about immigration on and on and on, i don't understand how people understand that we can't be argentina. >> well, i think there's a number of elements that are at play here, which is why, you know, the challenge is trying to talk about democracy in layman's terms, if you kind of get where my drift is going there. just kind of bring it -- bring it to a point where it doesn't seem like it's a foreign concept to people to talk about these things and these behaviors, especially the behaviors. so the idea of sort of throwing around fascism, right, in this environment in america, it almost sounds elitist. it almost sounds like they're using big words. well, your mama never used big words when she was describing bad behavior before she whipped your behind. and i think that's kind of the space we need to get back into is breaking down this conversation, which is why democracy conversations that nicolle and others have having on campuses like howard and elsewhere become important because it's a way of sort of taking the mystery out of it and saying, no, these are the effects of this behavior, these are the consequences of this behavior. well, you look at argentina and go that's over there, this is not america. no, it is. let me tell you how it is. we just had in the last 30 seconds of conversation about the struggle of african americans in a post-reconstruction period or during reconstruction and how much the country repulsed against that and deeply fought against it in many quarters, that's part of that narrative and that experience that we can relate forward to today in what we're seeing in sort of breaking it down. but, of course, we can't talk about such things because that's a part of teaching black history as well. >> that's critical race theory, michael steele, and that's illegal in about 20 states. >> i'm sorry. >> exactly. our christopher rufo theory because that's what it is. valuable conversation. google fascism and tenants of fascism and scary is scary for real. coming up fulton county d.a. fani willis appears in court herself trying to revoke the bond of a trump codefendant for allegedly intimidating witnesses and obstructing justice, you know, the stuff trump gets away with on a regular basis. 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well, with a tighter more detailed, more narrow modified bond conditions for harrison floyd when he violates because we know he will, he shouldn't be read how to be a roman emperor, he should be reading crime for dummies because then he'd figure out how to not get into trouble. but it was a show of force. this was the first time d.a. fani willis since the release of that indictment has been in court for pretrial hearings. it made sense because it put the defense on notice of the kind of prosecutor, trial lawyer, litigator that fani willis delivers, the type of work and pns that she does. it was straight work today, and that's what was needed because this is the first time the d.a.'s office was on the offensive. on prior hearings it's been defense motions to dismiss, but today it was the state's motion to revoke his bond and harrison floyd shows no discipline. he doesn't listen to his lawyers, he doesn't listen, but now we have a much more narrow modified bond orderch. >> when it gets violated then he goes to jail, right? >> yeah, and i think what happens today is judge mcafee basically put harrison floyd on notice as well. i've given you a chance. and the judge made clear i'm not giving him a second chance, i'm just saying there needs to be more nuances in light of the fact social media exists. and i think it was acknowledgement wave got to check up. the judicial system has to catch up with social media. when you're having these content bond orders meaning when the sides are agreeing to the terms of your bond, they've got to be really, really specific so you don't allow people to thread a needle in a way they can get away with threatening someone like ruby freeman over and over again. >> right, and that's what he's on trial for. can you put that picture up gwen of sterling brown. this guy thinks he's donald trump. he's popping off in the courtroom. you can see him there sort of rolling his eyes and looking around. he apparently shook his head as she made her arguments. she was openly derisive saying he can publicly criticize me all hewants, i don't value his opinion. he said at one point she's just mad because she can get past uncle tom, she's just a district attorney. at one point willis called donald trump mr. trump, and he loudly corrected her president trump and corrected by mcafee. it's a ridiculous performative mess. does it surprise you he was the only guy jailed before remember, are you surprised he didn't get jailed? he was the only one, the black guy. >> again, i'm not surprised because the judge said he doesn't think that mr. floyd is trying to intimidate witnesses but rather mr. floyd might be trying to holler at some of his codefendants. so it's a technical violation but not a big one, and he shouldn't go to jail. but can we talk about the other way that mr. floyd is just like mr. trump? you know, donald trump loves to call black prosecutors he said it about d.a. bragg, letitia james and d.a. willis. today mr. floyd played the race card, which is kind of weird in a case with a black prosecutor and a black defendant. mr. floyd's lawyer claimsthality d.a. willis is just out to get mr. floyd because he's a black conservative. the defense says it's just like with another black conservative, clarence thomas, said he was subject to a hi-tech lynching when anita hill said that thomas had sexually harassed her. so according to the defense, d.a. willis is just another black woman trying to bring a black male conservative down. joy, we don't have time to unpack how wrong and dumb that claim is, but i'm not surprised that d.a. willis felt compelled to show up in the courtroom today to address this herself. >> well, you know he may not want that analogy because in that case that was clarence thomas credibly accused of harassing a black woman. and in this case he is credibly accused of harassing and essentially terrorizing a black woman and her black woman daughter. so he may have stumbled into an analogy right, paul? >> that's exactly right. the bond order the reason he's not locked up prior to trial requires him not to communicate in any way with people who were going to be witnesses. we know that ruby freeman is going to be a witness in this case. the indictment accuses mr. floyd of trying to intimidate her saying that she's going to get locked up because of election fraud, trying to pressure ms. freeman into admitting that she committed election fraud, which she absolutely did not commit. and so you're totally right. it's mr. floyd who really is attacking, harassing a black woman in the same way that anita hill's very credible allegations against clarence thomas suggested that he did. >> bl he needs is a nice rich benefactor to take him on fancy trips and the analogy would be complete. anyway, he's the insurrectionists himself. katie phang, paul butler, thank you both very much. coming up, the israeli government is meeting right now discussing a tentative deal for the release of some hostages held by hamas. i will bring you the latest next. y hamas. i will bring you the latest next how does it feel knowing that some of the hostages may walk free, but your son may not be among them? >> i'm happy for the one who will get free, but i am sad for myself and for all because as i said i'm a mother and all a mother needs is to protect her son. >> it is a very emotional day for the families of the 200-plus hostages taken in the deadly october 7th surprise attack on southern israel by hamas in which some 1,200 people were killed. today the israeli government commeengs on a potential hostage deal. nbc news is reporting this possibl would include around 50 women and children held by hamas exchanged for around 150 palestini women and children held in israeli jails. the deal would also include a four-day pause in the mbardment of gaza to allow for the hostage ex as well as for 3 400 trucks of humanitarian aid to be allow into gaza each day. officials tell nbc there's also an option to extend the pause for additional days in addition for an additional ten hostages per day. these numbers are subject to change, and of course the deal could still fall apart. but if successful it would bring relief not only to the families of these hostms but temporary relief to the people of gaza who have faced a 46-day bombardment as well as a humanitarian crisis with more than 14,000 dead as of tonight. joining me now is the president of the u.s. middle east project and former middle east peace negotiator. and a member of "the washington post" editorial board and the author of "the problem of democracy, america, the middle east, and the rise and fall of an idea." thank you both for being here. daniel, i do want to start with you to get your comments on this. this is a limited deal, and i'll note for our audience it is only for israeli citizens and dual nationals. most per our great reporter raf sanchez of the american -- many of the dual nationals are american, but that does leave out an unknown number of thai and other international -- other -- you know, people from other countries who the israeli government is saying their countries would have to negotiate on their own. those are just some of the facts of the deal. what do you make of the fact there is this limited potential break through? >> i think it's an extremely important and welcome development, actually. i'll tell you what the lead israeli political commentator has just post asked the title of his piece. and he has said "public pressure has led netanyahu to agree to a deal which he refused until now." now, i think the israeli government are going to say only the military effort has led to the agreement of this deal. the truth is it's a deal that's basically bip available for several weeks. i was briefed on it almost a month ago. but whether that's the narrative they need or not, the important thing is that you now have a dynamic where there will be several days of pause in the fighting. you will get some people out, and internal pressure that led to this i think will only increase, and this will be a variable that netanyahu cannot control. and what i think it would be important to see is that there's e ternl pressure as well to make sure after five days we don't return to the horrible scenes especially when you see so many of the palestinians in gaza now crowded into the south, and things could get even worse with the u.n. secretary-general saying this is unprecedented and un-paralleled killing of sul villains in all his time as head of the u.n. >> the pressure has been external and internal. internally there's been disruptions of protesters all over the world and college campuses and people are marching over what's happening in gaza. at the same time i think we have video of it, members of family whose have hostages -- whose family members are missing marched on netten hoofs how office because they were angry with him and they demanded he meet with them, sit with them and their feeling is that returning the hostages has not been prioritized over taking out hamas. what do you think can come out of the internal and external pressures on someone, to daniel's point was offered some deal like this but was turned down and now is interested in taking it. >> exactly, pressure makes a big difference. it's not just internal pressure in israel but here in the u.s., a growing number of democratic party politicians have called for a cease-fire or at least a humanitarian pause, and if you look at the democratic base especially young people have been increasingly disappointed and angry at the biden administration's inability to put more pressure on netanyahu. and i think it is really worth emphasizing just how staggering the level of destruction in gaza has been. we've all seen those images, and, you know, gaza city is no longer a city in any real sense of the word. 1.6 million out of the 2.2 million palestinians in gaza have been displaced. so inevitably there's going to be an outcry and i'm glad to see the biden administration has finally put, you know, more pressure on israel to make some of these concessions and compromises. but as daniel says, this should have happened -- we shouldn't have had to wait this long for -- for a pause in hostilities. and i think it's -- my hope is that it can be extended, that we can use these four or five days to really have a conversation about what is the day after look like in gaza because there has to be a day after for the people of gaza who have really very little to hope for at this point. >> and i do want to talk about that. you know, there is a potential this gets extended, daniel, a little bit more. there's allegedly a price part of this deal, plaps more extensions for more hostages, it would be a step process, sort of more people would come out for additional days. obviously hamas sees that as leverage. is there something that can come of it? because it's hard to imagine that the devastation of gaza is what's moving netanyahu to make a deal. it's the political pressure he's under. his poll numbers have tanked completely. i've seen polls that say something like 8 in 10 israelis want him out, that his political career might be finished. and he also still faces legal issues. and the pressure on him doesn't feel it's because of the carnage but because of his own internal problems. >> well, indeed, joy. and i think that's why amongst other factors but a big factor why netanyahu has tried not to go for this deal because he knows that once this happens, the dynamics shift. people want to see the rest of those israelis out, and i think they'll be willing to pay the price. as you say that brings hamas leverage to the forefront. there'll be other prisoner releases. there'll have to be more sustainable cease-fires. and he knows the morning after he is almost certainly toast. that's when he faces the music. and he has brought this on himself. he is a politician -- sorry, joy. >> no, go. continue. >> he is a politician who fought this extremist coalition, more extreme than anything before. it's not that he was stuck with these characters, and it goes deep into his own liquid party who openly call for ethnic cleansing for the eradication of palestinian village. who wear apartheid as a badge of pride, not something they shirk from the accusation. you know what he was doing before the election. he was worried they would not get into the parliament if they ran together. he brought them to his home and got these guys to form a joint list. if you can imagine it's like bringing the head of the proud boys and the grand wizard of the kkk together to form a political party so you can be in coalition with them. so he is paying the price for his own extremism. >> and the pressure is also on joe biden because he is seeing his own coalition fracture and young voters, you know, something like 7 in 10 oppose him and his actions in this matter. is there some world in which biden also feels political pressure to push forfor a solution to the actual thing, a solution to the occupation, a solution to the need for a two-state solution? is there a world in which all of these pressures create an opening for that? >> well, again, the longer this goes on, the more biden looks bad. and i think there was growing pressure i have to say just just to be straight up, i was very disappointed in any number of comments the biden team said including biden himself when he infamously questioned whether dead palestinians were actually dead and cast doubt on the numbers, and it turns out those numbers were largely reliable and accurate. and that, i think, went viral particularly in the middle east and in the global south where a lot of folks were saying not only is bidesen unquestioningly supporting israel and the bombardment of gaza he's actually questioning whether palestinians are dying. and it's obviously not a good look. it erodes america's moral leadership to the extent we still claim to have moral leadership. so, you know, at some level this -- i really -- and also internally we should say there's been a lot of staffers in the defense department and state department who have been criticizing their leadership for not speaking out. and there is a generational divide here that's very important to know. >> indeed. i want to have you guys back because i think this is an important conversation. what happens next i think is rit criminal to discuss. hopefully you'll accept our invitation to come back together because we really enjoy talking with you. thank you both very much. and coming up, a very, very special announcement about something i've been cooking up that is almost ready to come out of the oven. back in a second. of the oven. back in a second believe them. stealing their basic supplies. he hits his mark —center stage—and is crushed by a baby grand piano. you're replacing me? customize and save with liberty bibberty. he doesn't even have a mustache. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ >> just after new year's day in 1963, james baldwin arrived in mississippi as he embarked on a lecture tour through the american south for the congress on racial equality. the tour is launched in response to the violent riots that accompany james integration of the university of mississippi months before. meredith's push to enter old miss had been backed by medgar wylie evers, who had himself been rejected by the state premier college simply because he was black. wild london just dine with medgar and really others at their home in jackson's lone one block black middle class subdivision where merely could have a special meal, as she did for all of medicare's important visitors. he also rode with maker into the delta, where medgar spent long days investigating the everyday indignities and vicious crimes perpetrated against black mississippians as the plantar class fought to keep them tied to the cotton plantations, where black families had been trapped during slavery. baldwin saw with his own eyes the fear and terror in those men, women, and children, some of whom medgar had to smuggle out of mississippi to escape the threat of lynchings, financial and sexual abuse. decades later, he recalled medgar as a great man, a beautiful man, and a troublemaker in the way baldwin respected. we're calling that is he sped through the delta at top speed in his blue oldsmobile rocket 88, designed to help him outrun the klan, he possessed the calm of someone who knows they are going to die before their time, like martin luther king. medgar evers did die before his time. he was shot dead by a white supremacist in his own driveway at just 37 years old, that june, as merely and their children were agonizing witnesses. before that awful moment, in the wee hours before john f. kennedy publicly committed to introducing the civil rights act that maker had fought for, medgar and marley lived a love story for the ages. they met at all corn college, later alcorn university, when he was a 25-year-old world war ii veteran and she was a naive 17 year old freshman, a singer with a natural back for the piano who pop performed with a popular ghouls group in segregated vicksburg, mississippi. we'd love at first sight. it became a reluctant civil rights union between an activist and the 1950s housewife we just wanted humanitarian. when medgar was assassinated it launched marley on a decades-long search for justice. if you have not guessed, this is a topic of the book, it's called medgar and merely, the love story that awakened america and i am very excited to share with my readout readers. the book will probably be banned in florida, because but it's history and i feel pleased to be shared. when people land in jackson mississippi today they and in major evers international airport, and many don't even know why. though james baldwin called medgar one of the three great civil rights leaders alongside malcolm and martin, historians largely been lost overtime. their assassinations ultimately drove his to the back pages, though he was the first national level civil rights leader to be assassinated in the 1960s, the age of civil rights heroism, making myrlie our first civil rights widow. i'm super excited about the book, for which i interviewed the great myrlie evers williamsburg half a dozen times along with many of the people who live this story first ham. if you don't check it out, you can scan that cute little q r code on your screen to preorder. the book officially goes on sale february 6th, 2024. tour dates are coming. you can find out more at msnbc.com slash medgar and myrlie. and we will be right back. and we will be right back. and we will be right back. >>do good. because when you purchase one, we donate one to those in need. visit bombas.com and shop our big holiday sale. bombas. give the good. >> on the readout blog tonight, tom jones reports on nikki haley, and vivek ramaswamy's awkward thanksgiving chat in iowa. one of those drives of christian nationalism on the right. three candidates conversations last week's family leader event was allowed to religious extremists, john says, and a warning to establishment republicans in the rnc. all that and more at msnbc.com slash reidout blog. and that's tonight reidout all in, with chris hayes, starts now. in >> tonight on all in. >> i'm now very close

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