american history, as sadly died. she was 96 years old. carter, who married jimmy carter in 1946, was widely credited with expanding the role of first ladies to an active partner both in policy and international travel, becoming a trusted adviser even in an era when most newspapers would only call her mrs. carter. and it deeply personal statement released just a short time ago, president and first lady jill biden and doctor jill biden with -- four decades of our friendship, through records of campaigns, through the darkness of deep and profound loss, we always felt the hope, warmth, and optimism of rosalynn carter. she will always be in our hearts. joining me now by phone is nbc news chief washington and foreign affairs correspondent andrea mitchell. andrea, it's great to have you with us. i'm sorry it has to be on such a sad occasion. we know that you have had the opportunity to interview roslyn on a number of occasions, including jimmy carter. reflect with us on her life, if you will, both before the white house, during the white house, and since the white house. >> ayman, thank you for this opportunity to really celebrate her life of service and love. great compassion. great love for humanity. -- war on peace, traveling the world, traveling africa, doing their best to cure guinea worm and river blindness, and of course, that work here and around the world for habitat for humanity. i knew them when they were in mid construction on a habitat site, as well as overseas. she traveled with her husband everywhere. and went on her own on foreign trips when they were in the white house, in asia, latin america. reverend carter had known jimmy carter since birth, because missile ian, his mom, was the midwife delivering her, and then brought three-year-old jimmy to visit the baby, the baby rosalynn. just days later. so they've known each other all their lives, and they went to school together, she was best friends with his sister, then had a crash on the handsome midshipmen when he was going to the naval academy, and then they made just shortly, maybe the day after his graduation. he had been in the submarine force in served under admiral -- in creating the nuclear submarines that are now the main stay of our nuclear force submarines force. all along, she was the wife, the mother, the grandmother, the great grandmother, partner in the peanut farm business, then drove right into politics when he ran for office, and eventually became governor in president. they had ups and downs in the white house, as you know. the presidency was haunted in the final years by raging inflation, by the iran hostage situation, and still, -- she felt very strongly that he was a great president, and with the work she did on mental health, ayman, was just groundbreaking. people didn't talk about mental health problems, especially not people in politics. she just went right in and made it a signature issue. she also created, really, the whole profession of caregiving. because until then, people would help relatives, and there are people who would be caregivers for higher, but there wasn't really a profession. and she professionalized it until now. it's a major contribution to the aging of american society. so all her life, there were just a devoted, passionate couple. passionate and they 737 ng year love affair, having celebrated their anniversary publicly on the 75th anniversary, it was a big celebration of things. but in returning, while, and being home for hospice, which they announced just days ago, she wasn't declining health, she had dementia, and he, you know, issued a statement that clearly president carter would be devastated at the loss of his wife partner. ayman. >> yeah. it's definitely gonna be a massive loss for him, a massive loss for the country, and how she redefined that role. nbc's andrea mitchell, thank you so much for your thoughts and insights on this. i'm joined now by kate anderson broward, the author of the book first women, the grace and power of america's modern first ladies. also with us, jill wine-banks, who was appointed to the u.s. army general cancel by president jimmy carter in 1977. jill, i'll start with you. rosalynn carter had -- political activist. what can you tell us about her approach to the political causes that she cared about, at a time when women were increasingly becoming more public and more vocal in the political space in this country? you wrote a post on x today about her activism surrounding the equal rights amendment. >> that's one of the things that i remember her best, for fighting for the equal rights amendment. and i'm wearing a hashtag jill pin -- never came to fruition, at least not yet. i'm still hopeful. but she also changed the role of the first lady. she is the first one who had an office with a staff. she actually left the residence with a briefcase and went to work. and she was, i think andrea said many times, partner. she was not just his life partner. she was his political partner, both in the white house in the gubernatorial races, but also after the presidency, when she really worked with him on habitat for humanity, and all the other -- center for peace. she really was a definite partner for him. and she was much more political. she was shy, she really had political instincts, and he really didn't like politics. so she gave him advice on politics. and i think that she will be remembered for changing the role of the first lady, and also for all of her activities. mental health was her major cause, when she made it something that we talked about. she fought to make sure that it was an insurable illness in the same way that other illnesses were covered. and i think she deserves credit in her own right, not just as the first lady, not just as mrs. carter, but as rosalynn. >> kate, you have spent years studying and writing about first ladies in this country. i would argue one of the foremost experts in the country about first ladies and the role they occupy both in our public and political spaces. reflect on what you learned about the remarkable life that rosalynn carter lived, and her imprint on the role of first lady. >> well, as jill said, she really did make this her job. one of the things i love talking to her about is the criticism she would get four sitting in on cabinet meetings. she told me, you know, i figure i get criticize no matter what i did, so i did what i wanted, which i think is something a lot of first ladies feel. you know, she was called the steel magnolia, and she said she didn't mind that nickname because steele is tough and magnolia is sovereign. one thing that really surprised me, i was pleasantly surprised, as a journalist, is when i interviewed her and president carter at their home in plains, and i asked them, this was in 2018, about donald trump, and jimmy carter, being a former president and guarded, to an extent, said, you know, reagan lied to us too, i'm not sure this is much different. and rosalynn just kind of teasingly, you know, hit him on the elbow inside, you know this is very different than what ronald reagan did. and i kind of love that, that she could be herself, and to speak forthrightly. be honest. and that's one of the great things about rosalynn carter. >> joe, the carters, they've always been considered ahead of their time in so many ways on so many issues in this country, whether it was, you know, climate change, mental health, justice, prison justice, social justice, prison reform in this country. -- u.s. army. you are the first woman to serve in that role. talk to us about the significance of carter appointing you, do you believe that rosalynn carter influence that move on her husband's stance on the advancement of women across many sectors in our country? >> i don't know that, but i deeply believe it. i certainly think that she was -- he was terrific about women. he appointed a lot of women to high-level positions and the administration, and to the courts. he was very, very good about that. but when the administration formed something called the old girl network to compete with the old boys network, to give ourselves some support in a time when women wear very, very few and far between and high-level positions. it certainly opened a lot of choice for me. i love the position, i loved the military officers that i got to know, and the issues that i got to deal with. and i do think that women sometimes bring a different viewpoint to it. so i think this is all really important, and i do think that rosalynn had some impact on him doing all this, and i'm very grateful to her for that. they also had a son who lived in evanston, where i am, and so i got to see the many, many years later at the wedding of their son. and they were so much in love, there was so happy together, and they really brought a new definition to partnership in a marriage. and i know that president carter is going to be devastated, but he is surrounded by his loving family right now, and i know they will stay with him. >> and you pick up on that point, kate. the partnership in marriage. in fact, you know, shortly after rosalynn died, this is what the former president said in the statement. rosalynn was my equal partner in everything i ever accomplished. they were the longest married u.s. presidential couple in u.s. history. talk to us about the relationship they had outside of the white house. you've spent time about them, you've written about them, i've had chance to interview them in georgia as well. they were inseparable in every sense of the word. >> absolutely. an inside the white house, by the way, i was told that when they would want to talk about something, it was kind of controversial, they would speak in spanish to each other around their chief of staff and their comms director, because they didn't speak spanish. so that kind of had this track private language, literal private language together, and they would read the bible every night to one another. he had said, president carter said, main hurt was the pinnacle of my life. but then, to her honesty, they talked about hard times in their marriage. when he made the decision to move from -- to new york, where he was working in a very prestigious enables some marine program, to move back to plains, to take over the peanut farm after his father died, he didn't ask her for her opinion. and she sat in the car that entire ride from new york to georgia and did not speak to him. so, you know, she demanded to be a partner. and from then on, he said he always consulted her about absolutely everything. and she was so important to his success, and she would travel around iowa and find radio stations in tv stations, people to talk to, who had no idea who jimmy carter was when he first ran. she would have a list of suggested questions for him to ask her. and this was a woman who was shy, she was nervous when she was public speaking, she took classes on how to improve. so she really blossomed in the role of first lady, which is beautiful. and as charles said, she became the political powerhouse. she's the one he wanted to have this meeting at camp david that was so very successful and important to this day. so she deserves a lot of credit, not only for the softer things that we think of the east wing, the christmas, and the easter rolls, and all of that. she was actually a political partner to him, and she insisted on weekly lunches in the oval office so that she could go over the things she wanted to talk to him about. so she could be a voice for him to the american people. she was incredible. >> yeah. she was incredible, and it was a beautiful partnership, both in politics and more importantly in the journey of life. kate anderson broward, jill wine-banks, thank you both. we appreciate your thoughts and reflections on this. ahead, we're going to shift gears for a moment and talk about the political headlines in this country, and the far-right conspiracies leading back to real world violence. stay with us. stay with us and last for weeks. a pain so intense, you could miss out on family time. the virus that causes shingles is likely already inside of you. 50 years or older? 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[dog barks] no it's just a bunny! >> all right, i said before i only pay for what you need. ♪liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty.♪ goli, taste your goals. need. sell it again. words have consequences. it is an old saying that, sadly, has become even more relevant in today's volatile political climate. this week, david pape, a man who brutally attacked nancy pelosi's husband, paul, with a hammer last year was convicted by california federal jury. according to court records, to pay confronted a sleeping publicity arnd 2 am last tober repeatedly shouting, where is nancy? while holding a hammer and zip ties. then speaker was in washington at the time. on monday, paul pelosi spoke publicly for the first time about that attack, which left him hospitalized for days with a cracked skull. in his testimony, pelosi counted those early morning hours from the morning that peep barge into his home from his call to 9-1-1. opening the door for the police just before he asked to pape and saw him get hit with a hammer. when the prosecution asked pelosi what he remembered next he responded, quote, waking up in a pool of blood. the following day, it was his attacker's turn to take the stand and debates testimony depicted a man whose life had been consumed by far-right conspiracies. the 23 old said he had watched youtube videos and listen to podcasts from right wing figures like glenn beck tim pool. right wing conspiracies that pate said lead him down a path of violence. to pay patched a plan to take down the prominent figures who served as recurring characters in these far-right delusions that he had. beyond pelosi, his list of targets included hunter biden, congressman adam schiff, tom hanks and california governor gavin newsom. debates testimony offers a chilling reminder from all of us for the real life impact that the far right media ecosystem in this country has, often serving as a conspiracy theory patronage. here to discuss this, and say johnson, political strategist, chief impact officer of ten 63 westport and former senior adviser for biden for president 2020, melissa murray, professor of law at new york university, also msnbc legal analyst and co-host of strict scrutiny podcast. great empathy with this. melissa, give me your thoughts here. both of the counts that pape was convicted on required the prosecution to prove that his intent involved pelosi's official duties in congress. that she was a political figure, he knew that. to piece lawyers argue that his intentions were wholly unrelated to her official role even though he admitted on the stand that he targeted her as a leader of the democratic party. are you shocked that the defense didn't pan out as they thought it would? >> well, this didn't go very well for the defense at all. ramsey, the u.s. attorney for the district of california made it pretty clear case. this was about the fact that nancy pelosi was the head of the democratic party went to pay took the stand, he basically admitted as much. this jury [inaudible] made quick work of it. they only sent six hours deliberating about this, which is pretty quick work all things considered. again, this is a northern california jerry. i've lived in northern california for a very long time. it's not the case that jury's are always inclined to side with the government. i was quite surprised by how quickly they were turned a verdict here. it seemed that this is a pretty open and shut case. he admitted it, they also had body cam footage of him doing this attack as well. >>lindsey, during the testimony, helpless he said that he made the best effort possible to not relive that night, rusing to listen to his9-1-1 call or watch any of the videos from hisattack. he said that the episode had been, quote, so traumatic for my family. yet, after his attack, you still had lies and conspiracy theories about pelosi spreading online promoted by very prominent people in this country. now that there is a conviction and those lives have been debunked, any court of law, will those conspiracy theories finally learned their lesson? >> i wish i could say that i believe that they would learn their lesson, but as we saw after january 6th, even people after the election when [inaudible] for joe biden, people continue to believe these conspiracy theories. they believe democratic party or progressives are after certain folks. it's really discouraging because i don't know what act of violence [inaudible] say that will have a wake up call on a lot of these people that are very much influenced by the dark web, by conspiracy theories, to the point that they are actually committing acts of violence against people [inaudible] and yet, they're still not learning the lesson. [inaudible] these web websites, some of the news right-wing media, including fox news, continues to spew these conspiracy theories that they now ratchet up the space, going into the presidential election next year, there's already been research and polling that shows it will be even more violent than we saw in years past. i'm concerned that these convictions are telling people to stop. matter-of-fact, they [inaudible] you see so many republican leaders, we saw last week, all these republicans in congress fighting a hearing. they resort to violence when they don't get their way. i'm really concerned that we are going to have a hard time grappling with this as a country. >> yeah, no doubt about it. we are still grappling with it, melissa. raising the question for me, at least, about far-right media figures in this country who paved down the path of conspiracy and violence. can they held -- cannot be held accountable by any court of law or is to paint solely responsible here? >> well, this is something we are going to see as the days and weeks unfold. there is already a lawsuit that has been filed against members of fox news on the ground that during the election when one fox news operative try to push back on this idea that there had been rampant electoral fraud, he says that he has retaliated against his job and the company was so intent, allegedly, on pushing this narrative in order to resonate with their viewing base that they ignored what he viewed as the tr