seriously. tim miller, miles taylor, and susan glasser joining me to discuss the man one magazine calls it biggest ager to the world. pause for hostages, new reports of a potential deal to secure the release of hostages held by hamas in exchange for a pause in the fighting. the latest from former nbc news foreign correspondent, martin fletcher. countdown to expulsion. a scathing house ethics reports may finally force the departure of george santos, the serial liar from new york. one of the first lawmakers who tried to hold him accountable, robert garcia, joins me live to discuss what's next. and, snl, at santos's expense. >> this is serious, they're calling for your expulsion. >> girl, expel me. >> that is -- that's not a word. >> girl is a word. >> that's not what i meant. >> this is the sunday show. >> election 2024 is less than a year away, the matchup seems like it'll be a rematch of 2020. joe biden versus donald trump. the prospect of another trump term, it's implications for america, and democracy, it's already setting off alarms. so much, so the economist has labeled the former president, quote, the biggest danger to the world in 2024. according to the influential london-based magazine, quote, a second trump term would be a watershed in a way the first was not. 's victory would confirm his most destructive instincts about power. his plans would encounter less resistance. and remarkably, his plans, and those of his enablers, are being talked about openly. there was the bombshell report from the new york times that revealed that trump wants to use the justice department to exact revenge on his political adversaries. the new york times also reported on plans for an extreme immigration crackdown that would include, quote, sweeping rates, giant camps, and mass deportations. according to a new report from axios, trump allies are pre screening the ideologies of thousands. the potential trump administration expands trump's power at every level of the u.s. government. trump is backing up these dangerous plans with violent rhetoric that should alarm anyone who cares about democracy and the rule of law. >> we pledged to you that we will root out the communists, marxist, fascist, and the radical left thugs that live like vermin within the confines of our country. the real threat is not from the radical right. the real threat is from the radical left. it's growing every day, every single day. the threat from outside forces is far less sinister, dangerous, engraved, in the threat from within. our threat is from within. >> vermin. historians have noted that trump was perry dane adolf hitler. president biden saying the trump speech echoes language you heard him not see germany and the 30s. it isn't the first time. a trump campaign spokesman called the comparison a ridiculous assertion, but that spokesperson also said this about his critics. there are sad, miserable existence will be crushed when president trump returns to the white house. so let there be no doubt. a second trump presidency could spell the end of the american experiment of democracy itself. and yet, a new nbc news poll out today shows that trump is narrowly ahead of president biden in a hypothetical general election matchup. joining me now, tim miller, msnbc political analyst, writer at large for the -- and author of why we did it. a travelog from the republican road to hell. miles taylor, a former dhs chief of staff, author of blowback, a warning to save democracy from the next trump. susan glass, staff writer at the new yorker, coauthor of the divider. thank you all very much for coming to the sunday show. who was first on the screen? i think it's. tmi want all of you to give me your reaction to the new nbc toll that shows that trump is narrowly ahead of president biden. it's within the margin of error, but in a general election matchup. especially in light of trump's increasingly alarming rhetoric. >> well, jonathan, there is no doubt that it's alarm maine. it's dispiriting to see those numbers. i think it's also important to put it in context, where a year out, as you see, neither of those candidates is approaching 50%. i think if you look at the polls, analyze the polls, there is a big, maybe not big, but a significant portion of what is holding president biden down and his ballot number as people that are within the democratic coalition. voters of color, younger voters, people that are maybe upset about the inflation, and even what's coming down. or they're upset about actions and gaza from the administration. you would think that once most of those from that group learned about donald trump's plans, and that feels more like an acute threat to them, as we are closer to next year, a lot will come back on board. you hate to make about like that when the stakes are so high. >> yeah. miles, -- >> look, at this point, it's realistic to say, john at, them that it's a coin flip about whether or not donald trump becomes president of the united states again. that is jarring, it's very worrying. it could, as you say, represent, frankly, the end of the american experiments. the only way those numbers might changes if voters have a very clear idea about what they need. this is what's needed right now. for somebody to paint that picture. i tried to do it in my most recent book. people are trying to do it now. look, donald trump is out there saying who he is going to be, painting that picture. hopefully, when you go [inaudible] in a second trump term, you'll want to use the entire [inaudible] and implemented and extreme view of america that systematically undermines the institutions of our democratic republic. it is as bad as it gets. we've never seen anything like this in american history. now is the time of choosing. the question, is will the american people wake up? >> suzanne, would love your reaction to these new poll numbers. especially to tim's point. we aren't a year out. >> well, that is right. i look at that 46% number for donald trump, and what that says to me is that republicans are sticking with their heat. 46% is exactly what donald trump received in the 2020 election. not that different from what he received a bit more in the 2016 election. the republican coalition has made a choice to stick with donald trump. notwithstanding his unprecedented effort to overturn the legal results of an american election. all the other things, not including four indictments in the like. the difference is, democrats, and democratic minded independents, are sending a message right now. there are not yet comfortable, they're not yet on board with joe biden in the next year. so it's really a focus on what can biden do to bring the democratic coalition back? there is a strong argument that there is a ceiling for donald trump. the question is, if the frying of the democratic coalition is such that that ceiling would still be enough to elect donald trump. meanwhile, we're playing russian roulette with democracy. i do think this is an extremely important point. the stakes here could not be higher. >> and you know, to your point, susan, the nbc news poll does say, well biden support has changed throughout the year, albeit within the margin of error, trump has barely budged in the polls. the kind of amplify what you just said. tim, you recently interviewed former trump white house chief strategist steve bannon on showtime's the circus. let's listen. >> a mega lawyer, on your podcast, mike davis. he suggested one of the top priorities for attorney general, fired the deep state executive branch. a lot -- deport millions of people. then detain people. pardon ever january 6th defendant. what do you think that? >> i think it's fantastic. >> all five? >> so we've all been talking about the potential extreme trump policies. there they are, talking about them so brazenly, so openly. tim, what do you make of the fact that folks have no qualms talking about very extreme, anti-small d democratic rule of law plans that they have for trump's second term. >> i think the main takeaway here is that he's going to have the most radical, most reactionary folks around him. i think that miles can speak to. this last, time there were a lot of people in the administration, there were a lot of other folks as well who are trying to put the bumpers on the bowling lane. that work to, times not others. those bumpers will be off next time. the ban, and mike davis is at the, world they're going to be the types of people who will be around, and who will be in charge. i think that's alarming. i think they feel very confident about the political standing, to be able to speak like this. i think it'll be one thing for steve bannon is a provocateur, or as a podcast, et cetera, to say the sorts of things, but for people around trump to say, them or advisers to, trump people who are actively working to help them win, it tells you that they feel confident on their political standing, and they're not going to be nemesis, time and limited and scope of these very anti democratic, anti rule of, law efforts to jail enemy, izium create these sprawling deportation efforts that far exceed what he attempted to do last time. >> miles and going to come to you with a question on the other side of the, break before we go to that break, there's a minute left. trump's rhetoric is beyond alarm again. not only did he use the word vermin, a few weeks ago, he said undocumented immigrants were poisoning the blood of our country. and quote. again, echoing language used by hitler, why should the american people take him literally and seriously when he talks like this? >> jonathan, the dehumanizing rhetoric that donald trump has, which he's done throughout his political career, i remember writing a whole column, calling enemies human scum. you know who else uses this rhetoric? it's not just hitler, it's the worst dictators in history. those are the only people who have democratically elected leaders. you will not find them. it's because it's not democratic. fundamentally, what it is, it's the language of a straw man who is inciting followers to believe that their opponents are subhuman. it is a call to wage violence, it is a call to be able to do whatever you want won't feeding those supporters. it can lead to disaster. listening to that clip, it was chilling. it was as if i was hearing alive speech from joseph stalin. it was that scary. >> all right, folks, don't go anywhere. we're going to continue this conversation with tim, susan, and miles. miles, what going to talk about the danger of a.i. in the next election. i have a question for you about. that all panel will be back after the break. after the break. in order for small businesses to thrive, they need to be smart, efficient, savvy. making the most of every opportunity. that's why comcast business is introducing the small business bonus. for a limited time you can get up to a $1000 prepaid card with qualifying internet. yep, $1000. so switch to business internet from the company with the largest fastest reliable network and that powers more businesses than anyone else. learn how you can get $1000 back for your business today. all right, my all-star panel is comcast business. powering possibilities. back with me. so, miles, you've been part of an initiative to get the word out about the dangers of a.i. and our elections. here is an exclusive preview from a public service announcement. everyone watched this. >> it's tuesday, november 5th, 2024. it is election day in america. polls are showing that today will be one of the largest voter turnouts in our nation's history. >> down the street, our kids go to school together. >> hi, it's reverend jones from the church calling. >> hi, what's going on? >> my sister asked me to reach out. >> hey, care, bear its mom. >> looks like they closed a local polls early. something about the lack of staff. >> your family trying to get a hold of you, man. i guess your father, rodrigo, he's in the hospital. >> if you're late to your, shift your fired. i don't care if you want to vote. >> listen, we need you to stay home. >> are you there? >> dog got out again. >> local white supremacist are targeting voters today. we want to keep you safe. >> miles, what's really chilean, when the ad goes on to show, seemingly, a real president biden say in something like because there have been issues at the, polls they will remain open for the next 48 or 72 hours or something like that, and at the end of the ad, i think there is a disclaimer that says all of those voices were made via a i. talk about the dangers that a.i. poses in the next election. >> well, jonathan, every single voice in that advertisement was deepfake voice. i think the takeaway here is not necessarily that a.i. is the enemy. the genie is out of the bottle. a.i. is going to be misuse in the 2024 elections, and it will put disinformation on steroids. by the same token, there are solutions. good technological solutions in government departments and agencies that are responsible for protection elections, they lean into using some of these tools for good. lean into using these tools for defenses purposes. my worry is that federal departments and agencies aren't quite there. yet they're not quite ready to use those technologies to go after the people who are misusing them. that is what we need to do. so this ar policylab that was convened by georgetown in the future u.s., they brought together top technologist and former policy makers to look at that question. one of the examples that we've seen is that these tools are already being deeply misused in other elections. they're kind of offering a preview for us. if you look at elections in argentina, there was, for instance, the other, day a deepfake of one of the leading candidates talking about selling human organs. what happened? it nudged millions of views. so we are going to see these things have a significant impact on public perceptions, about candidates, elections, about whether the polls are open or not. it will create confusion. we can get ahead of it. there are answers. that actually requires leaning into positive uses of the technology. that is one of the things that this policy lab concluded. is that the government needs to really speed up efforts to do that, and do things like this public education campaign to, as one participant, said take the press out about. make sure the american people know that it's going to be difficult, no is going to be different, because there's going to be a surgeon misinformation and disinformation. by expecting that, to not be so panicked by it. at the end of the day, to verify their sources. sounds really simplistic, but that's a 2024 is going to be all about. the need to verify sources because the disinformation will be rampant. >> susan, i was about to ask, you how do we combat. this are we even prepared for this, especially in a society that prizes free speech and freedom of the press. are we prepared to push back against this in a way that the american public will hear its, and heat, it then understand it? >> i think, i appreciate miles's optimism, that there is a policy solution to this. right, now it strikes me that we've unleashed yet another new technology that has the power to weigh more than those that were already grappling with quite unsuccessfully in our politics. this is a moment of such division and to have a tool like this, i think, it really threatens our country that can't really afford it right now. i look at the explosion of misinformation, disinformation, in the israel gaza war, for example. which i think exceeds, by an enormous scale, anything that we've seen before. look at how this is acting upon a country here in the u.s. that is already so divided. they think it is accelerating an exasperating the divisions in our society, to be honest. >> tim, i agree with susan, the nation cannot afford, this and one of the things that i think would be very helpful is if republicans, republicans of stature, more to step up in realtime and say, no, donald trump, you can't use language like, that no, donald, trump your plans are anti-small d democratic, on american. no, mr., trump we can't allow this to, happen in, yet all in hearing from those types of republicans is crickets. >> yeah, jonathan, i'm not going to be able to have one. i don't think that's going to happen. this morning, as you're talking about, this is looking at the senator, mike lee, who is one of the more normal republican senators, i guess. we're judging on a scale these days. he's voting on a single frame of a photo from january six, claiming that, that's very blurry, but what to me looks like of a, pan claiming that it is a federal agents batch. like there's no evidence. it's way too grainy to be able to determine. that there is a senator pushing that out, saint, hey, january six maybe wasn't maga after all. maybe it was the fbi. three years later, he saying. this after all these investigations, of bipartisan investigation, after we've looked at all this footage, all these juries have reviewed the actions of the people who were there at the capitol that, day impartial juries, and found all these people guilty, still, we have senators advancing that misinformation based on this tiny freeze frame, so if you compare that as potential threats of miles and susan are talking about, from a, i am from foreign actors to might utilize these tools to interfere, it's hard to be optimistic that we're going to see any positive behavior on this. >> well this much is very clear. i am going to keep talking about the dangers to democracy and our country every week, if i have to, to ensure that we go into election 2024 with our eyes wide open to how high the stakes are. tim miller, miles taylor, susan glasser, thank you all very much for coming to the sunday show. next, breaking news. sources tell nbc news that negotiators are close to a deal to pause the fighting between israel and hamas to secure the release of more hostages. we'll discuss the latest with nbc's former tel aviv bureau chief, martin fletcher. martin fletcher have you ever considered getting a walk-in tub? 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(vo) make the switch. it's your business. it's your verizon. oh, hello! hi! do you know that every load of laundry could be worth as much as $300? really? and your clothes just keep getting more damaged the more times you wash them. downy protects fibers, doing more than detergent alone. see? this one looks brand new. saves me money? i'm starting to like downy. downy saves loads. breaking news out of the middle east this morning. nbc news has learned that the united states, israel, and hamas are nearing a deal to release some of the hundreds of hostages in exchange for a pause in the fight in. one senior israeli official tells nbc news that as the military pressure increases, the chances of a release of hostages grows, because hamas is desperate for a cease-fire. israel has been reluctant to agree to that as it continues to pound gaza with