>> ryan bussey, candidate for governor of montana gets tonight's last word. the 11th hour with stephanie ruhle starts now. >> tonight, the guilty verdict for the man who attacked paul pelosi. the conviction handed down amid a rise of political division, violence, and dangerous rhetoric. and questions about how the media should cover donald trump during this election in the wake of -- the shifting approach. then, alarming testimony from a former facebook exact about what his teenage daughter experienced using the app. an important discussion on the effort to keep kids safe online as the 11th hour gets underway on this thursday night. ♪ ♪ ♪ good evening. once again, i'm stephanie ruhle. tonight, a verdict in the case that raised fears about violent political outbreaks in this country. a federal jury has convicted david to pop of federal crimes for a violent attack on paul pelosi, husband of the former speaker of the house, nancy pelosi. this ulta place over one year ago. depape broken to pelosi san francisco home shouting, where is nancy? he then beat paul with a hammer, fracturing his skull. depape admitted he was motivated by baseless, far-right conspiracy theories. many of the loudest voices on the right of since joked about the attack, including former president donald j trump himself. >> you know, we had no terror during my administration. the only terror we had with nancy pelosi, who is a crazed lunatic. what the hell was going on with her husband? let's not ask. i'll withdraw that statement. by the way, she's got a wall around her house. obviously, in that case, it didn't work very well. ten years ago, san francisco was one of the greatest cities in the world. today, i don't know, it's sad to see. and nancy pelosi is a big reason for it. by the way, she's got a wall around her house. it didn't help her husband too much. >> classy. the attack happened just ahead of the 2022 midterm elections amid sharp political and cultural divide in america. one gop come grossman who also came to power than was george santos of new york. his election help republicans take control of the house, but boy, oh boy, what a difference a year makes. now santos is facing expulsion in the wake of an absolutely devastating the house ethics report that was released earlier today. it says he broke multiple federal laws, including using campaign cash to fund things including, wait for it, botox treatments, payments to onlyfans, and a whole lot of other things. nbc's ryan nobles has the whole story. >> tonight, embattled representative george santos's days in congress maybe numbered. >> he should be expelled. what he has done has violated the public trust. >> this after the bipartisan house ethics committee released a bristol-ing report outlining a long list of allegations against the new york congressman. >> the level of misconduct here, criminal conduct, is off the charts. i've never seen anything like it. >> among the new revelations, that santos used campaign fund to pay for his personal rant, to take out cash from an atm at a casino, to spend lavishly at designer stores, for cosmetic treatments like botox, and on the website onlyfans, which is known for its adult content. santos already faces a lengthy criminal indictment. the ethics committee referring their findings to the doj, which could add to his list of charges. as he left washington, incentives was defiant. >> i think i said this very clear to you. i will take whatever comes my way the way it comes. i have no concerns. >> today, he announced he would not seek reelection, but vowed to stay in his seat, quote, up until i am allowed. but that may not before long, as a flood of members who once had santos deserved due process before any talk of expulsion, are now ready to kick him out. >> the ethics committee found that he did not cooperate with the investigation, and i think he's been given the fair due process. >> that criminal indictment, ryan noble mentioned, involves 23 separate charges that include stealing from his donors and falsifying campaign filings. with that, let's get smarter with the help of our leadoff panel, luke broadwater is here. pulitzer prize-winning congressional party for the new york times. you're gonna get really excited but our next guest. leigh mcgowan is here at 30 rock. and you know her as the internet's very popular politics girl. stuart stevens joins us, a veteran of the mitt romney and george w. bush presidential campaigns. he is now with the lincoln project. his new book a must read the conspiracy to end america, five ways my old party is driving our democracy to autocracy. it is out now. luke, do you remember when steve scalise was shot in 2017? it was devastating. and people all across the hill, all across the country, but obviously, on both sides of the aisle, came out in his support, condemning the shooter. why are we not hearing that for paul pelosi? because it wasn't just donald trump going after him. i remember glenn youngkin, who likes to paint himself as a moderate, he mocked paul pelosi. >> yeah, there is no defending those comments in anyway. you had a brutal and devastating attack on an elderly man with a hammer because somebody believed a whole bunch of lies on the internet about pelosi along. terrorism experts call this stochastic terrorism, which is that somebody has been so demonized, in this case, nancy pelosi and her family, that it creates this heightened risk of lone wolf actors like the attacker in california. and so, you can very much tie the dehumanization of nancy pelosi and her family to this attack. and you'd heard the attacker on the witness stand, who's said he's gotten into these right-wing conspiracy theories, and that is why he turned violence. and so, the more that they joke and they demonize the pelosi's, the more likelihood there is that you'll see more of this political violence. >> stuart, i want you to hear what attorney andrew weissmann said about this earlier tonight. >> it's sort of unbelievable that we're sitting here talking about gee, wouldn't it be great if politicians had the fortitude to not normalized violence? >> you write about political violence in your new book, right? trump jokes about violence all the time and people are like, oh, it's just what he says. just what he says results and things like this. >> yeah, you know, really, i think the republican parties to blame for this. because the republican party calls this out, it would be less normalized. so take governor of florida right now, ron desantis, republicans forever have said let's cut the federal budget, let's reduce the number of federal employees. we never did it, but we still talk about it. so now, that's become for youngkin, he says, i'm going to slip their throats. that's a guy, governor of a really big state that was a front runner in his race at one time, instead of opposing doctor fauci, he said somebody should throw that little elf across the potomac. and you know, when he saw the debate the other night, it was full of all this glorifying of who could be the most descriptive and what they wanted to do to somebody else. and i think it's a deep sickness that's in the party. >> yeah, but here's the thing, there are polls out there that more and more people are saying in some cases, political violence is justified. do you think democrats need to be way more focused on the threat of violence right now? >> i think we all need to be aware of the threat of violence. you lose me at polls because i don't know who is polling anymore. i don't understand these polls that are coming out. oh, this person, trump is still winning. when it comes down to political violence, i think we have to go right back to common sense. is that what the american people want? when you think about it, politics in general, we really want to congressional members fighting in congress. gee, i thought it was great when that senator asked to fight somebody in congress. -- >> who is pulling that? in any place a business where you've ever worked, have people argue that work, and said, let's take it outside. i'm gonna take you down. no. >> our children would not be able to behave like this. my child behave like this, he resigned from school, who'd be suspended. and yet he we allow our congressional members to do that, and that's exactly what happens. when your standard bearer, you're the biggest brutally in the world. you have to either rise to the level that bubbly or you are demoted within your party. and that is what we have become. we have become the bassist version of ourselves and we have to ask that's really what we want. and i think most of the american people are saying, that's not really what we want. and i don't know who's going on the phone, because most people don't want violence. >> okay, clearly what we're talking about is the thing we saw earlier this week, right? gop senator mike wayne mullin challenging the teamsters president to a fire during a hearing. and we could say that's ridiculous on his part, but i want to know what our other members of congress saying about that. yeah, so i'm going to take you out. let's take it outside. are they right on man? >> i think most people in congress, or at least once and i talked to throughout the week, felt embarrassed to be a part of the institution this week. you had, you know, allegedly former speaker kevin mccarthy elbowing another republican. in the hallway. and the two of them traded insults. and accusations. senator mike wayne mullin challenging a witness to a fight in a congressional committee room. you had really mean and nasty insults going back and forth in the oversight committee. so, yeah, it was an embarrassing week for congress. it was an embarrassing week for, in particular, the republicans in congress, who are the ones doing all of the accusations, all the threats of fights. and it was a scene of chaos and, like i said, deep embarrassment for many members. >> beyond the political divide, we have to talk about what happened on tiktok today, lee. young tiktok users, right, somehow, this 20 year old letter penned by none other than osama bin laden. we now have some young american tiktok user saying maybe he had a point. what in the world's going on, lee? >> i think the problem with social media, and i say this is somebody who created their entire career on social media, is that there's very little room for nuance there. it's very -- >> i'm sorry, where is the nuance around him some of bin laden? >> i think the problem is it's very easy for people to hear one thing, click on to it, and say oh, i am against genocide, so here i am suddenly against israel. or i am against this thing, so i'm suddenly for osama bin laden. people are not using their critical thinking minds, and we are not coming at it from a sense of humility. we're not coming at it like, i don't know everything, there are experts out here in the world that actually know these things. i don't want my surgeon learning how to do my surgery on tiktok, and i don't want my tiktokers telling me how to do international policy. there are people who are actual experts. and we can learn from social media, about what we should be pain attention to, what we should be seen, what we should be maybe researching more, but to actually get our information solely from social media, it leaves us very vulnerable to understanding the wrong thing. >> help me understand this, stewart. it's clear that there is a line. political rhetoric is inflaming people and inciting violence. paul pelosi is the perfect example. why is it that all sorts of lawmakers are clinging to the idea that protecting free speech is more important than protecting human life? >> it's not really free speech. it's free speech that they like. you know, you saw where facebook now is made a policy where it's okay to say that past elections were stolen. this is just incredibly corrupt to any sort of civil society. you know, republicans have gone down this road, and it's so striking about it to me, having spent 30 years in the party, i used to think that we were the adult in the room. remember that? where like, you know, it might be boring to have republicans in office, but would be stable and at least they would try to do the work and be confident. and that's just completely gone, to this sort of craziness. look at that clip. he had bernie sanders at was the institutionalist saying do this? in the united states senate? i mean, you know, i remember when bernie was running for mayor and the bicycle down the main street in burlington and he was yelling about -- anyone that race. and now he's the institutionalist. and i think it says a lot about where the republican party is fallen. >> as long as we're talking about where the republican party has fallen, let's go even lower, george santos. can you explain to us, luke, what is the situation for him in the house? he took campaign dollars, spending on pain for onlyfans, botox, sophora visits, and going to atlantic city. what's going to happen to him? >> the ethics committee report today was quite damning. it really laid out a pattern and practice of using campaign funds for his own personal use, in addition to all the myriad lies that are documented that george santos has told over the course of his campaign. as to what's going to happen next, that's very much a question for the house republicans. two thirds of members have to vote to expel a member like george santos. at the last vote, a majority of republicans voted to save george santos. speaker mike johnson, the new speaker, put out a statement today in which he did not call for expulsion. he said the report was troubling and it concerns him, but he did not call for expulsion. and he has previously said that he really needs every vote with congresses tight margins. so, will this report tip it over the edge where now the republicans will have a change of heart and unite to vote out this oh man after this really damning ethics report? >> what's your take on his bold statement that he doesn't plan to run again? how is he gonna run again? what donor out there is going to say, let me write you this campaign check. or should i just fill it out directly to onlyfans? give me a break. >> this guy would lives in a web of lies. i don't think he has a clue what he's doing have time. i think the thing that we have to remember is that any normal congress, any government we would actually won, would've gotten rid of him from the very beginning. they would've been like, bro, you are not for us, obviously, you're a complete lie. are you like to people who elected you. you're not who you said you are from where you played volleyball or didn't play volleyball to your mother of was and if she died in 9/11. the skies too much. so the thing is that they're keeping him because they want his vote. and that's what it really comes down to. this is not a party that's looking to have values or morals or ethics. they don't really care about any of that anymore. they care about do they have the power? and they will do anything they can to keep the power even if that means keeping somebody like george santos. >> well, republicans are not alone inside behavior. stuart, take your pick. you've got bob menendez on the left, george santos on the right. two guys who can go to jail, yet congress is okay with them keeping their jobs as lawmakers. what does that say about our political system? >> well, i mean, obviously, they both should be expelled. democrats have done a better job calling out menendez than republicans have santos. you know, i'm thinking back, when mike pence first ran for congress, he lost because he was paying his mortgage with his campaign funds. so, this sort of thing, and he ended up being vice president. probably santos his career is not going to go that far. but you know, it goes to this idea that those -- does character count? does it really matter who people are? can we look up to these people? and i think if we live in a country where we've decided the character doesn't count, which is something that kids used to say, and with trump, it's gone the other way. i think that's really dangerous. as lee was saying, it's not like this in any other part of my life. coaches don't do this. teachers don't do this. and so, i think if we have lower standards for people around the country, what's that about? >> can you imagine people taking their corporate cards and pain there around ten covering onlyfans and going to atlantic city? you see that in corporate america every day. luke broadwater, stewards evens, thank you both for being here. special thanks to lima gallon. we don't get to see her often, and man, it is worth it. when we come back, trump's smack talking the judge again. and guess what? he's allowed to. and i really need somebody to tell me why. and later, a possible sea change for a news giant. univision has sent off alarm bells on its influence in 2024. the 11th hour just getting underway, and i'm going to say, at a very important thursday night. very. meet the traveling trio. the thrill seeker. the soul searcher. and - ahoy! it's the explorer! each helping to protect their money with chase. woah, a lost card isn't keeping this thrill seeker down. lost her card, not the vibe. the soul searcher, is finding his identity, and helping to protect it. hey! oh yeah, the explorer! she's looking to dive deeper... all while chase looks out for her. because these friends have chase. alerts that help check. tools that help protect. one bank that puts you in control. chase. make more of what's yours. are you tired of clean clothes that just don't smell clean? 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trump was talking smack about the judge and the clerk. they hit him with a gag order. you know he's going to do it again. why would they lift it? >> well, you have to remember that the first amendment and its protections are very broad. and ultimately, what a gag order is as what's called a prior restraint on speech. it's the government telling you before you start talking that you can't talk. and so, courts very heavily disfavor those. obviously, this is an extreme situation. i do think on appeal, i would expect this gag order to ultimately be upheld when it's considered by the full court because it's really trump attacking a member of the court staff. but that said, courts generally trying to err in favor of more speech rather than less. that's why this is happening, but i agree with andrew, very poor strategy by trump. i think it's fair to say this isn't the legal strategy at all. it's a spin or political or press strategy. >> isn't it always? let's talk about georgia, because the judge there is taking steps to keep anymore trial material from leaking to the public. can you explain to our audience why that is so important? >> absolutely. the whole point of a protective order is to ensure that ultimately, at the end of the day, the jury is deciding the case based on the evidence that comes in in court. just because we've seen an entire video or clips from a video of, let's say, jenna ellis spilling guts to the prosecutors, does not mean that all of that evidence is going to come in a trial. and maybe would come in a little bit differently. ultimately, at the end of the day, the judge does not want the jury to be able to be googling on the internet and finding out all these facts about the trial. and for example, the jury pool said their views shaped by all kinds of press coverage beforehand. ultimately, the goal is to have that evidence considered by the judge, who is going to decide what is admissible and what's not. >> renato mary adi, always good to see you. thank you for being here. when we come back, what is going on at univision? getting cozy with trump and pushing back on biden with jared kushner waiting in the wings, maybe pulling some strings. when the 11th hour continues. stealing their basic supplies. when you're ready to begin treatment for chronic lymphocytic leukemia, calquence helps you do the fighting. and you can do the exploring. you can do the splashing... ...the sightseeing... ...and the playing. calquence is an oral targeted therapy for cll. more patients begin with calquence than any treatment of its kind, and calquence is proven to work better than chemoimmunotherapy in patients with previously untreated cll. calquence may cause serious side effects, which may lead to death. these include serious infections with fever, chills, or flu-like symptoms; and bleeding problems that may increase with blood thinners. decreased blood counts are common and can be severe. new cancers have happened, including skin cancers. heart rhythm problems with fast or irregular heartbeat, dizziness, feeling faint, chest discomfort, or shortness of breath, have happened. tell your doctor if you have bleeding, heart rhythm, or liver problems; infection, or if you are or plan to be pregnant or breastfeeding. calquence helps you do the fighting. and you can focus on the things you're loving. ask your doctor if calquence is right for you. this isn't charmin! no wonder i don't feel as clean. here's charmin ultra strong. ahhh! my bottom's been saved! with its diamond weave texture, charmin ultra strong cleans better with fewer sheets and less effort. enjoy the go with charmin. somedays, i cover up because of my moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. now i feel free to bare my skin, thanks to skyrizi. ♪(uplifting music)♪ ♪nothing is everything♪ i'm celebrating my clearer skin... my way. with skyrizi, 3 out of 4 people achieved 90% clearer skin at 4 months. in another study, most people had 90% clearer skin, even at 5 years. and skyrizi is just 4 doses a year, after 2 starter doses. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine, or plan to. thanks to clearer skin with skyrizi - this is my moment. there's nothing on my skin and that means everything! ♪nothing is everything♪ now's the time. ask your doctor about skyrizi, the #1 dermatologist-prescribed biologic in psoriasis. learn how abbvie could help you save. >> all right, please turn of the volume, because you need to pay attention to this. what is happening with donald trump and univision? the most watched spanish language network in the entire country. they aired an hour-long sit-down interview with mr. trump last week. thewashington post is now reporting on the behind the scenes changes at the network, which used to have a rocky relationship with trump. but in this interview, trump faced questions like why are you doing so well with latino voters and current polls? he also faced zero pushback on multiple lies. no fact-checking. according to the post, trump's son-in-law and former senior adviser, jared kushner, who has said he's not involved in the campaign this time, he helped arrange the interview using his friendship with one of the top executives involved. on top of that, the post reports that univision canceled biden campaign ads that had already been bought to run in swing states during the interview. univision attributed the decision to a quote, unannounced policy change about opposition advertising in single candidate interviews. they also canceled a scheduled interview with a biden surrogate to respond to trump's interview. here is one of the reporters on the washington post story explaining univision's relationship with the company it merged with. that's the important part. back in 2021. >> a lot of the concern about this is that tele-visa has a long reputation in mexico dating back decades of being very friendly with whoever is in power in that country. and univision, when it was established in the united states, very intentionally defined itself against that. it tried to set itself up as an american style news network that was going to talk truth to power. the actual corporate control was not overseen by tel aviv as a, until relatively recently when essentially, the two companies merged. and now you have this blending, which has caused significant consternation in the univision newsroom. >> consternation, so let's talk about. it with you with us for more, bill carter, former new york times media journalist for over two decades and the author of the late shift and the war for late night. former republican florida congressman carlos curbelo. you have seen it all when it comes to american media. what do you make of what's happening univision? >> it certainly looks like you have a corporate leadership that has decided to go a different way and interfere with the news division. because they not only, obviously, it seems to me, ask them to make sure the re-softball questions, they brought in a different journalist to ask them. not a univision journalist. so they didn't even allow one of their top journalists to go after trump the way they had previously. >> so, can you just stay on that? because for somebody watching, hussain hold on a minute, the via is divided he, can't say that it's not. you can't say that there are networks that are biased. this is not about bias. this is about actual policy changes we pulling advertisements, canceling interviews, and bringing in an encore interview or reporter to nuzzle up to trump and say, when did you get so awesome? >> it's corporate interference is what it is. and essentially what you have is a network that's been watched by spanish speaking -- largest in the country. >> who are not getting the information that is clanging out there that donald trump, who has said he's not only going to deport them, he's going to put them in concentration camps, essentially. he didn't call them concentration camps, but camps. >> let's be clear, he did not call them concentration camps. >> absolutely, let's make sure -- let's not kid ourselves. >> he called it in internment camp. the what happened to the japanese to, remember? and he also wants to separate kids from the parents again. do they want that? he's also the guy who said mexicans are drug addicts and rapists. this is his previous position on the audience for this channel. it seems like a crazy business issue, decision, to say first of all, let's cozy up to the guy who hates everybody who is hispanic, which is what it looks like if you just look at it objectively or take a step back. it looks like that's what he's done here. what univision is down here. it's cozied up to trump, and very interestingly, the washington post did a great job and said they kozyrev to power. who is in power now? trump's not in power now. he's out of power now. they're cozying up to him because they think he will be back in power. they want him to be back in power now, maybe. >> why do they want him to be back in power now? carlos, what's your take on all this? >> well, steph, look, this is a remarkable shift. just a few years ago, donald trump expelled -- the lead ankara univision for decades now from event and told him literally go back to univision, and asked him to leave. so this is a major shift. obviously, executives at univision perceive some kind of opportunity. i mean, we have seen over recent years that hispanic voters have been trending a little more towards republicans and away from democrats. this is a big deal for democrats, because democrats have relied on about two thirds of the hispanic vote to win national elections for decades now. and that is changing. so perhaps univision is trying to be opportunistic. i think what we should all hope for the country, although i personally prefer to get my spanish language news from telemundo, univision does have an important voice and we hope that as a broadcast network, they maintain that commitment to integrity, to unbiased news, to giving all candidates equal opportunity. that's what america's hispanic community deserves. >> and this is what i want you to explain for us, because every voter can choose whoever they want to vote for. but they should have transparency. they should know who they're voting for, they should know what that candidate stands for, what policies they would want to put forward. they are getting filled with misinformation. can you explain to us, can you break down exactly how important univision is for hispanic speaking going into election year, are necessarily watching other networks have broadcast in english? >> that's right, staff. this is a network that speaks to millions of people that oftentimes, only rely on this network for information. these are people who work all day, get home in the evening, watch the evening news. they may not have the time or the ability to access it many different news sources that are available to us today. so univision has in outsized role in our country, a very important role. and jorge ramos has been one of the most trusted people on the hispanic [inaudible] makes it interesting, certainly conspicuous that univision would have him sit down for an important interview like one with donald trump, the leading republican candidate for president and a former president himself. so clearly, there is a major shift going on at univision, and it's something that we shall keep our eyes on because it does have significant consequences. >> to tack on their bill, that jared kushner, who has said he's out there managing money, not involved in politics. ivanka is not in politics. he's directly involved in talking to an executive -- how does that fly? >> it certainly looks like this is all been a plan. this is been a plan. >> it's on brand for jared kushner. >> let's get univision out of the democratic corner, and the new owners are more friendly to us. i go to dinner with them. jared kushner's pals with the head of -- let's get softball questions to trump instead of calling out what sounds like an outrageous policy against hispanics. i mean, it sounds like that's his agenda. all, right let's go from outrageous, to really super scary. there is another media related story, it's mind blowing. right now, on tiktok, there are videos going viral that actually support it letter osama bin laden wrote decades ago, criticizing the u.s. and its support of israel. this comes as the new q survey shows about a third of young u.s. adults regularly get their news from tiktok. it is the kind of thing we are going to see as more people are getting their news from tiktok. which is awfully not a new source. facebook was set in the last year, that were moving away from news. how insane is this? >> it's troubling as heck. i mean it really is. and it speaks to what's going on, generally, with a lot of young people paying way more attention to social media than what's really happening. and, they're getting a tremendous amount of confusing messages. i will say, there is -- >> but osama bin laden? >> that is so crazy over the top. and the attack may have actually been before they were alive, before 2001. but it's a gigantic historical event. and it still has enormous impact. have they ever been to new york? have they ever seen the site? i mean, it's so outrageous. to think of it, but i also think what's going on in the young culture right now, if there is a very big backing for palestinians because they've been oppressed, okay? there is that feeling among the people who stand up for that. and, listen, the antisemitic stuff also should be a very big calls for people. but i do think, what's going on, it reminds me, i'm old enough to remember the vietnam era. and, there was a youth culture thing to be against that war. but it also, was for some people, a reason to praise -- and ho chi minh who are doing terrible things because they were against the united states, so here's osama bin laden who was in every way a villain. he killed all these people. and he had horrible policies. -- and to cite him, to elevate him, is really outrageous. and, it really speaks to not thinking about what you really -- >> i can't even think about the notion of osama bin laden's policies. i'm old enough to remember, he's one of the most devastating people that the u.s. has had to face. i can't even -- it's mind-blowing to me that a single person in this country could think that guy had a point. full carter, carlos carville all, when we come, back hooked on social media, we were just saying. it we're gonna talk about the dangers and the toll it's taking on kids help. plus the latest effort to hold these sites accountable, a very big whistleblower things the time might be changing. zuckerberg might have to pay the price. when the 11th hour continues. ur continues but we ended up using three times as much and the clothes still weren't as clean as with tide. so we're back with tide, and the clothes are clean again. the laundry and get a tide clean. it's got to be tide. it's easy to get lost in investment research. introducing j.p. morgan personal advisors. hey david. connect with an advisor to create your personalized plan. let's find the right investments for your goals okay, great. j.p. morgan wealth management. for moderate to severe crohn's disease skyrizi is the first il-23 inhibitor that can deliver remission and visibly improve damage of the intestinal lining. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine or plan to. liver problems may occur in crohn's disease. control of crohn's means everything to me. ask your gastroenterologist about skyrizi. ♪ control is everything to me ♪ learn how abbvie could help you save. my daughter and i finally had that conversation. oh, no, not about that. about what comes next in life. for her. i may not be in perfect health, but i want to stay in my home, where my family visits often and where my memories are. i can do it with help from a prep cook, wardrobe assistant and stylist, someone to help me live right at home. life's good. when you have a plan. ♪ ♪ my job here is to help us bring light, to harms that these teams have been experiencing. and the fact -- that when the company talks about, them -- it does not need to be this way, right? instagram is standing right next to them, as the things are happening and they should be able to know that they built these kinds of things for six years and they should be able to turn and say -- and then get help with whatever's happening to them. and today, that is not the case. >> a former medal employee, and instagram it is warning about the risk team faces on social media. -- he said he told company leaders and i just don't mean mitt love. all i'm talking ceo mark supper -- that instagram was harmful, especially to children. and he's witnessing it firsthand. the wall street journal reports, they are flagged that his teen daughter and her friends received unsolicited to sexual photos and were harassed on the platform since they were 14 years old. and one email, to instagram said, they are warned, quote, one in eight users, younger than 16 said they experienced unwanted sexual advances on the platform in the past week. and the problems still exist. however anher spokesperson denied thelaim saying in part, quote, every day countless of people inside and outside of meta are workg how to help young people stay safe online working with parents and experts, 've introduced over 30 tools to support teams and their families. and having safe, positive experiences online. all of this work continues. >> i want to welcome frances haugen she is the whistleblower who wants that facebook knew its practices were amplifying hate, misinformation and political unrest back in 2021. she's also a member of the issuance council for responsible social media. a cross partisan group, calling for social media reform. francis, i'm so glad you're here. when i read this wall street journal article, he were the first person i thought of. what do you think of the story? >> you know, when we look back on the history of social media, we are going to remember this month. this is the month when the tide turns. >> really? >> so, our -- was the first engineering manager at facebook. he came back in 2019, because his 14-year-old daughter was getting sent inappropriate images, like you can imagine. she was getting sexual messages that were just completely an appropriate. and given the past experience she thought people just don't know that facebook is responsible. they would act of the news. so he went back for a two-year consulting contract. and when all the news came out around my disclosures and he saw their response he said we need to document that they knew and they didn't act. and so he sent -- he won, he did surveys of the users and found things like one in eight girls under the age of 16 have received an unwanted sexual contact in the last seven days. that's not ever. >> when he went to mark zuckerberg, when he went to instagram, they did nothing. >> he sent the email, the exact notes, any documented who responded, who emailed, who didn't. so that -- and the most shocking part is that don't distribute this information internally, discussing only in the hypothetical. >> while, we'll fast forward. meta is being sued by over three dozen state attorney generals who are alleging both instagram and facebook are deceptive, and dangerous to kids help. now, we ask meta about the lawsuit. and they said they are working every single day to keep kids safe online. do you think there's any chance these lawsuits are leading to changes that the company is actually making it safer? >> so, we've seen the pattern with facebook, which is facebook doesn't change until it forced to change. for example, many of the safety policies that they have, they say that we launched the safety features for kids. they didn't do that until the uk passed an online safety law back in 2021. one of the things that we should expect is that if they lose these lawsuits, and remember, we now have a paper trail that says they testified before congress that they thought the products were safe. when they knew. and if you notice, our -- testified before the consumer protection committee, which is what i did. he testified before the judiciary. and just yesterday, a bipartisan group of senators asked facebook for every piece of communications related to the emails that he referred to in this testimony. >> all hot dam. >> is that not amazing? >> well it's something. if you're talking to parents today, and they're looking at their kids, their teens, on this platform, what are you telling them? >> you, know it's incredibly hard to be apparent today. remember, plants didn't grow up with these technologies, there's all this peer pressure saying you have to be on this platform. >> i know, it i love it. >> one thing that i know about my parents is that they done studies for a kid to wait to go online, to go on social media. and they don't reporting any less lonely than kids around the platform. and the second thing is there's things we could do to glendola bit of that damage. things like kids films need to charge in their parents bedroom. it's gonna take a couple of years for this to play. out even stressful. and kids are going up right now. so, having the hard conversations with their kids, knowing what they're using, maybe even reading a little longer, these are all things we could do today while we wait for justice. >> i want to talk about a different topic, the wall street journal is reporting that meta has now made it easier to post political ads that question in the 2020 election that say it was rigged, it was stolen. medina citing, we should do this. this is about free speech. when you worked at the company, you were literally on the release information team. why would the company take this position? >> well i think one of the things to remember is facebook fired a large number of the safety professionals in the last year. safety is one of the things where you want to look more profitable, you can easily get these unpaid debts in the form of making your product less safe. and no one will know, because you don't have any transparency loss today. >> we also don't have any rules. you can't put a political lad saying those things on nbc. >> and one of the things that i'm very worried about, is that in the last, year facebook has very openly said we're not gonna carry as much news. people don't like seeing the news. it's a downer. we're not gonna carry as much news. well, they haven't told us what counts is news and what doesn't count as me. as what we know is that the publishers are saying, we get, 70 80% less traffic than the day before. so just think about it for a moment. you're allowed now, to target people and say the election was rigged, and you're not going to let actual news sources distribute? if you're gonna talk about freedom of speech, you should really talk about freedom of speech in a more comprehensive. way especially when it actually put in day -- people's likelihood to vote, people's willingness to work with the process. >> i have one more question, right, the next big thing is a.i.. also the big got father of a.i.. we're not gonna make the same mistake social media did. but we've seen, in the last month, to high schools in this country where students have used a-eyed to create news of their classmates. how concerned are you about this next frontier of a.i.. >> i think it's going to be, what a good things where we actually have to have some called role -- it's sad to say what you have to things, like consequences that the senior level. because each technology is out there. but we are going to see this continue to be a, larger and larger problem. it's one where these technologies are drawn to the world. but we don't see repetition in these behaviors. and, so we have to start, saying if the way we're actually going to have safety is by having community action, we have to have communities, we have these conversations, have the norms, and have conversations. because, technology is now out in the world. >> well we need your help. francis, thank you so much for joining us. i appreciate it. >> my pleasure. >> that will give you nightmares. coming, up weeks after the worst mass shooting in the state of maine's history. the high school soccer team is giving the community a reason to celebrate after that awful, awful tragedy. when the 11th hour continues. ur continues can make me feel like i'm losing my rhythm. with skyrizi to treat my skin and joints, i'm getting into my groove. ♪(uplifting music)♪ along with significantly clearer skin... skyrizi helps me move with less joint pain, stiffness, swelling, and fatigue. and is just 4 doses a year, after 2 starter doses. skyrizi attaches to and reduces a source of excess inflammation that can lead to skin and joint symptoms. with skyrizi 90% clearer skin and less joint pain are possible. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine, or plan to. thanks to skyrizi, there's nothing like clearer skin and better movement... and that means everything. ♪nothing is everything♪ now's the time to ask your doctor about skyrizi. learn how abbvie could help you save. meet the jennifers. jen x. jen y. and jen z. each planning their future through the chase mobile app. jen x is planning a summer in portugal with some help from j.p. morgan wealth plan. let's go whiskers. jen y is working with a banker to budget for her birthday. you only turn 30 once. and jen z? 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