>> an attempt at a nuanced debate on foreign policy between republican presidential candidates last night in miami, that ultimately may not matter at all, there's a lot to cover from the showdown in miami last night, which was less chaotic with fewer candidates on stage but just like the previous debates, the front-runner was not there and for the most part the other candidates didn't attack the former president who was leading by wide margin miss the polls, they didn't touch him, they didn't talk about the problem of truth versus lies and donald trump. meanwhile, trump's daughter took the stand in new york yesterday in the civil fraud trial against the family's business. we'll go through ivanka trump's testimony. also, the latest on a significant development in the middle east, negotiations are under way to release more hostages being held by hamas. plus, it appears hollywood is ready to get back to work. we'll have an update on the historic actors strike that's been going on for almost four months. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it's thursday, november 9th. what a week it's been, willie, last night they didn't talk about donald trump and they didn't talk about the historic losses from the night before the issue of abortion. i don't know what moves the meter for any of these candidates. >> donald trump, asked about him at the beginning, they asked that question once and then moved on to it. they talked later in second hour about abortion and the night before, you could hear them walking that line. got smoked on the issue of abortion. did it move the meter in race where the real clear average has donald trump up 40, 50 points? probably not. let's take a look at what happened last night. jonathan lemire is with us. charlie sykes and former white house director of communications for president obama, jen palmieri. so, the third republican primary debate hosted last night by nbc news, five candidates on the stage last night in miami. they sparred over a number of issues from israel's war with hamas to abortion. donald trump as we said a no-show, he instead held a rally in a miami suburb. for the first question of the night the candidates were asked, why they should be the republican nominee for president instead of donald trump. ? >> donald trump's a lot different guy than he was in 2016, he owes it to you to be on this stage and explain why he should get another chance, he should explain why he didn't have mexico pay for the border wall. he should explain why he racked up so much debt. he should explain why he didn't drain the swamp and he said republicans were going to get tired of winning, we saw last night, i'm sick of republicans lose zblg i can tell you i think he was the right president at the right time. i don't think he's the right president now, i think he put us $8 trillion in debt and our kids are never going to forgive us. >> the next year and half of their life focusing on keeping themselves out of jail and courtrooms can't lead this party and this country. >> we need a president and a candidate who will actually help our base solidify and attract independent voters into our party. >> four of the five answers to that question about donald trump. we didn't vivek ramaswamy, he didn't answer the question, he attacked the moderators instead. let me begin this conversation with you, charlie, in a parallel universe, there were three, four candidates up there who could be a strong republican nominee in a pre-trump world, but as i said they all trail him in national polls and early state polls, so what did we gather from last night? >> yeah, this is a surreal moment, we need to pull back for the reality check, you know we're at a moment now where the former president of the united states is on trail for more than 90 felony counts and fraud allegations, refuses to show up to any of the debates and it barely registers as an issue and he's up by 30 points, so what you saw last night was almost a -- it was going through the motions of the debate as if it was going to make a difference. the only thing that's at stake now is who's going to be in second place, the last person standing before donald trump clinchs this nomination, but it's an amazing moment, that donald trump has made the calculation that he doesn't need to explain any of those things, he doesn't need to answer and the rnc is completely powerless, what you saw was a group of folks that are running against donald trump, but have not yet figured out how to do it. which is really remarkable. when you consider all the things on the plate. a man liable for rape, charges for espionage act. trying to overthrow the government. yet, these republican candidates can't figure out how to run against him. >> yeah, they didn't mention anything you just laid out. governor christie said he's going to be in courtroom all year next year. but didn't get specific. jen, you were at the trump rally nearby. some glancing blows i think at so much the candidates running against him, what else did you hear last night in. >> i mean, mostly a standard fare, he referred -- he didn't address nikki haley by name, he called her bird brain. the acknowledgment of debate, there's a debate someplace else, i'm in front of tens of thousands of people. there were not teps of thousands of people. ron desantis' team tweeted part of the stadium that was not filled. but, you know, there's not one person on that stage last night could attract a crowd that's a fraction of what we saw turn out for trump in hialeah last night. the team wanted to take the debate somewhat seriously, at least acknowledge it, they had a spin room, really just, which was a bunch of trump supporters standing in front of them. they let us talk to campaign officials while trump officials were watching us and they wanted to acknowledge the debate. they didn't feel he needed to debate here. they said trump would definitely debate biden. what was clear after talking to some of these trump folks they don't know what to do about abortion. they saw what happened on tuesday night. and talked to me about a moderated stance, air quotes, on abortion, maybe a 15-week ban, as i noted, that didn't work in virginia, what are you going to do? that's something they really don't have answer to. they're not worried about the primary. >> to jen's point, two topics they can't get their arms around, donald trump and abortion. the republican presidential hopefuls grappled with the party's position on abortion rights following overwhelming victories for reproductive freedom for women's health across the country in tuesday's elections. . the five candidates on stage could not agree on how the party should best handle the issue. including desantis who signed a six-week abortion ban in florida. >> got to work from a bottom up. you got to do a better job on these referendums. the pro-life cause, they've been caught flat-footed on the referendum. people voting for referendum are republicans. >> this is a personal issue for every woman and every man, i'm unapologetic pro-life. my husband michael was adopted and i have had trouble having both kids. post-row, they took it out of the hand of unelected justices and put it in the hands of people. now we're seeing states vote. i don't judge anyone for being pro-choice. looking at this, some staples are going more on the pro-life state. some states are going more on the pro-choice. the people decided. when it comes to the federal law which is being debated here, be honest, it's going to take 60 senate votes, a majority of the house and a president to sign it, no, we haven't had 60 votes in over a hundred years, no republican president can ban abortions any more a democratic president can ban these state laws. let's find consensus. let's agree how we can ban late-term abortions. let's make sure we make contraception accessible. let's focus on how to save as many babies as we can and support as many moms as we can and stop the judgment. we don't need to divide america over this issue anymore. >> we need a 15-week federal limit, three out of four americans agree with a 15-week limit, 47 out of 50 countries in europe agree with a 15-week limit. i would challenge both nikki and ron to join me at a 15-week limit. >> i trust the people of this country. state by state to make the call for themselves. now it's going to lead to at of divergence. in my home state of new jersey it goes up to nine months she can get an abortion. i find that morally reprehenceable but that's what the people voted for. >> okay, what i find more morally reprehenceable is talking about women having abortion in the ninth month, it's the most ridiculous argument out there and it's dishonest to say the least, so to this issue, though, instead of getting into an argument about the fact that doesn't happen, here we are with joe biden going against the republicans, the front-runner donald trump and the other republicans trying to beat him in a primary who can't win on abortion and they can't agree on donald trump, nikki haley calling donald trump a person who said that somebody who gets an abortion should be punished was the right president at the right time, the problem is, authenticity. the problem is, how can they be believable when they are working with within a framework that was set up by donald trump? which means standing by an entire environment of lies. >> it's remarkable -- charlie said it's surreal. the whole debate within the debate that goes on within the republican party, they act as if donald trump isn't there, these candidates were going with such precision on each other's records and whose website said what about some issue at one time on china but ignoring trump thinking that it's going to matter who the second-place finisher is in iowa, new hampshire and south carolina, the theory is that's going to matter, we haven't seen any evidence of who that second place finisher is. in hialeah last night, talking to trump supporters, they have no awareness that there's a debate last night, there's not any thought that's given to the primary, but for both trump and his primary opponents, they really don't know what to do about abortion. nikki haley had a word salad about trying to -- sound as if she was moderate but she didn't articulate a position at all to say except it would be difficult for congress to pass a ban. when i talked to trump campaign folks last night, they too talked about having a more -- presenting a more moderate view on abortion but no one can articulate what that is, if that's a 15-week ban, virginia, republicans run on that and they lost big. the thing for biden, in terms of how this affects 2024, we're not sure what's going to be happening a year from now, but what we saw on tuesday was a lot of voters turned out to vote for democrats on an issue other than the economy, right, that's what we saw if midterms of 2022 and '23, these other issues in this case abortion, concerns about democracies as well, but people are willing to turn out and vote in big numbers for issues other than the economy. >> jonathan, to that point, 15-week ban the happy medium for a lot of people live governor glenn youngkin of virginia and they got wiped out in virginia, state of ohio, republicans voting in support of abortion rights they may not agree with necessarily but saying it's none of my business. obviously, democrats energized by this issue, they'll make it a big focus that and democracy for 2024, how is the biden white house looking at what happened on tuesday to pull it forward for another year. >> tuesday, a big night for democrats, not quite clear what it means for president joe biden and his re-election bid. you know, certainly, his team is going to continue to make abortion a central piece of what they talk about next year the president himself has said he's not personally comfortable talking about it, the vice president has stepped up on this particular issue, but they think this next race and every re-election is a referendum on the incumbent and probably the economy, if it's donald trump coming out of the republican field, his criminal trials will also dominant the political landscape next year and of course there's's the abortion plank, too, charlie, if next year's race is about trump and abortion, that's really good for joe biden, if it's about joe biden maybe a little less good for his re-election bid, what is your read as to what we have seen this week, particularly on the abortion issue and how it can shape the contours of 2024. >> you're absolutely right about this, donald trump, if donald trump is on the ballot this election becomes a referendum on donald trump which is good news for joe biden. the abortion issue isn't going away, one of the big questions of the week, has it lost its ability to turn out voters? is there a sweet spot? is a 15-week ban going to crack the code? what with learned this week, voters look at a 15-week ban and they don't focus on the number of the weeks they focus on the idea of a ban, they focus on the idea that you're trying to take away abortion rights, and this is why a lot of republicans i think are freaked out, we thought that this was the one compromise that would poll well. if it doesn't work in virginia it's not going to work nation fally. donald trump is going to finesse this, portray himself as moderate deal-maker. we wouldn't have this debate except for donald trump. we would not be having any of these debates if not for donald trump. he wants to own the end of roe v. wade and yet somehow portray himself as the moderate. i think it's going to be difficult and i think this is going to be one of the real battlegrounds. whether or not donald trump is going to be able to skate away from that. >> charlie sykes and jen palmeri thank you very much for your analysis this morning. still ahead, one of the candidates on stage last night, former new jersey governor chris christie will join the conversation. also ahead the latest out of the middle east amid new negotiations to free hostages being held in gaza by hamas. and new u.s. strikes in response to the recent attack on american bases by iranian proxies. we'll talked to retired navy admiral james stavridis. and we'll joined by john kirby and white house press secretary karine jean-pierre. but first, ivanka trump testifies at her father's civil fraud trial in new york. we're back in one minute. minute hi, my name is damion clark. if you have both medicare and medicaid, i have some really encouraging news that you'll definitely want to hear. depending on the plans available in your area, you may be eligible to get extra benefits with a humana medicare advantage dual-eligible special needs plan. all of these plans include a healthy options allowance, a monthly allowance to help pay for eligible groceries, utilities, rent, and over-the-counter items. the healthy options allowance is loaded onto a prepaid card each month. and whatever you don't spend, carries over from each month. other benefits on these plans include free rides to and from your medical appointments. and our large networks of doctors, hospitals and pharmacies. so, call the number on your screen now and ask about a humana medicare advantage dual-eligible special needs plan. humana. a more human way to healthcare. ivanka trump testified in her dad's new york civil fraud trial, which is exciting, i can complete my trump courtroom trading cards. >> ivanka trump took the stand last night as the last family member ordered to testify in the $250 million new york civil fraud trial. ivanka is not a defendant in this case. she left the trump organization in 2017 to work at the white house. the statute of limit takes to charge her has lapsed. ivanka testified she was not involved in producing her father's financial statements while working at the company. the attorney general's office said top organization employees would falsify records to inflate trump's wealth. the judge many this case already has ruled the company has committed fraud. trump maintains he did nothing wrong. nbc news, she was largely evasive with her answers on the stand. often responding with the statement i don't recall when she was asked about financial disclosure. >> reporter: ivanka trump was cordial, disciplined, controlled. and she was very courteous. but her testimony raises some questions with regards to its credibility, which will be a question for the finder of fact. the reality is, based on the evidence, the documentary evidence, she clearly was involved in negotiating and securing loans, favorable loans, for the benefit of the trump organization, for mr. trump and her brothers and for herself. >> joining us now former lit gator and msnbc legal analyst lisa rubin. not as much flash and fire as donald trump when he testified, we should underline that ivanka is not a defendant in this case, just a witness, walk us through yesterday. >> the room was relatively calm because ivanka as a witness was place id, comfortable and she gave the appearance of being cooperative. despite saying she didn't recall over and over again. they gave interest rates he liked in exchange for two things, a personal guarantee and net worth minimum of at least $2.5 billion as demonstrated by his statements of financial condition, that was critical for deutsche bank which at the beginning were very happy to establish a relationship with trumps. even they had a limit, 2016, trump wanted to borrow more money, went up to the president of the bank and the family's private banker ended up sending ivanka a note. we couldn't make an exception. >> ivanka trump is an adviser to the president in 2017. what's her role? >> her role is in negotiating the loans and the terms of those loans for two projects in particular, the doral golf course and the old post office property in washington, did. c., that's a government property that we know as the trump international hotel d.c. that's no longer leased by the trumps, they sold it for $375 million last year, but she was the spear header of that project from inception to fruition, that means everything from negotiating with over 20 government agencies about the trump's bid for that property, to being involved in all of the loan terms and that's what the attorney general wanted to establish yesterday that relationship with deutsche and the conditions of loaning. >> in sum total, was this good for the trump family, bad for the trump family, to have those four witnesses on stand? >> on balance it was bad for trump family but we expect three of those four trumps to come back. don and eric will be witnesses for their father. i suspect the former president will be back. cross exam mags is always limited to the scope of what the direct examination is, you can't go beyond that for the most part, that means his lawyers want to elicit testimony from all three those male trumps to go beyond what the attorney general was interested in, so they'll bring them back, the latitude they think the former president and maybe future president should be afforded to explain himself and what it was that he was doing without intent. >> jon. >> lisa, we'll probably hear some of these trumps again, give us assessment as to what the prosecution did and then what we think we'll hear from the defense. >> the main argument, the second one first, no one intended for this to happen for a variety of reasons. they'll say they were entitled to rely on their accountants and their lawyers. they'll also say they disclaimed the accuracy of those financial statements in a clause with them, that says everyone receiving them you should do your own due diligence, trump in particular is fixated on what he calls this worthless statement clause. do i think the attorney general established what it was before them? i think they did. their task here was to show that the trumps only perpetrated a year-long fraud they did so intentionally and aided other people. >> former lit gator lisa rubin, our eyes and ears on this trial. coming up, the pentagon striking back at target in syria as american forces continue to come under attack in theory on. james stavridis joins us conversation. conversation why didn't we do this last year? before you were preventing migraine with qulipta®? remember the pain? cancelled plans? the worry? that was then. and look at me now. you'll never truly forget migraine. but qulipta® reduces attacks, making zero-migraine days possible. it's the only pill of its kind that blocks cgrp - and is approved to prevent migraine of any frequency. to help give you that forget-you-get migraine feeling. don't take if allergic to qulipta®. most common side effects are nausea, constipation, and sleepiness. learn how abbvie could help you save. qulipta®. the forget-you-get migraine medicine™. at bombas, we make the comfiest socks, underwear, and t-shirts that feel good, and most of all, do good. because when you purchase one, we donate one to those in need. visit bombas.com and get 20% off your first purchase. bombas. the first time you connected your godaddy website and your store was also the first time you realized... well, we can do anything. cheesecake cookies? 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( ♪♪ ) ( ♪♪ ) ( ♪♪ ) ( ♪♪ ) constant contact delivers the marketing tools your small business needs to keep up, excel, and grow. constant contact. helping the small stand tall. right now get a free footlong at subway. like the new deli heroes. buy one footlong in the app, get one free. it's a pretty big deal. kinda like me. order in the subway app today. i would tell president bide within great clarity, if you want to stop the 40-plus attacks on military personnel in the middle east, you have to strike in iran, if you want to make a difference you cannot just continue to have strikes in syria on warehouses you actually have to cut off the head of the snake and the head of the snake is iran and not simply the proxies. in order for us to have a powerful response, from america, we have to be in a position of strength. as president of the united states, my foreign policy is simple -- you can't negotiate we vil, you are to destroy it. >> we need to go and take out their infrastructure they're using to make those strikes with so they can never do it again. iran responds to strength, you punch them once and you punch them hard they'll back off what we don't need is biden falling all over himself to get back in the iran deal. him telling netanyahu now that he needs a pause or a cease-fire, we don't need him going and sitting there tiptoeing around iran because he thinks they're going to do something, you don't respond to an enemy and a terrorist with fear, you respond with strength. when you do that, that's when the world pays attention and that's when iran stops. >> as commander in chief, i'm not going to put our troops in harm's way unless you're willing to defend them with everything you have. biden has them out there, they're sitting ducks, he's doing glancing blows, that's inviting more attacks from the iranians. i would say, you harm a hair on the head of an american service member and you're going to have to hell to pay, we're not going to sit there and let our service members be sitting ducks, whether it's iran or any other country in the world, we have to be strong and we have to defend the people that defend us. >> the united states did launch an air strike on a weapons storage facility in syria. according to a statement from defense secretary austin, who said the strike was many response to those recent attacks on u.s. personnel in iraq and syria. there have been 41 attacks in total since october 17th, which have been one-way drone and rocket strikes launched at u.s. military bases at groups believed to have links to iran. designed to send a clear message to iran that we hold it accountable for the attacks. joining us now retired four-star navy admiral james stavridis, the chief international analyst for nbc news. want to get your reaction to answers we heard. on a debate stage, just attack iran, cut off the head of the snake, just go get iran. >> always easy to rule out a talking point, let's go bomb tehran, okay, what happens next? what do we do if there's a massive response? what do we do if 150,000 missiles go from lebanon to strike tel aviv? you need to think next steps. my take would be, yeah, we need to be strong and we need to move forces and as we say in the military set the table for heavy duty combat, squadrons and those f-15 strike eagles you just saw, 2,000 marines on u.s. baton. let's work up the ladder of vertical escalation, let's go for those nose punches first before we try rolling into downtown tehran, that's very dangerous, very high risk, you better have a follow-up plan. >> admiral, what's the appropriate response? we had couple of f-15s go in and take out this weapons storage facility to 41 attacks on american troops. on bases in iraq and syria. some of our service men and women reporting some tdi and what's the appropriate response? >> for example, a massive cyberattack taking out the iranian economic infrastructure, you could go after maritime platforms in the arabian gulf where iran generates oil and gas revenues, you could go after iranian port facilities, you could go after their ships at sea, a long way to go on that ladder of vertical escalation, willie, before you're talking about bombing downtown tehran. >> what's the call class do you think from iran's point of view? how far really is iran willing to escalate this before they draw a much bigger response from the united states? >> that's the big question and what we need to do is recognize the iranians, view themselves as inher or thes of the persian emperor, they want to expand their influence in the middle east, so we've got to meet them face to face with our allies, partners and friends in that region and that's what we're doing, we team with the israelis against them, we team with the saudis against them. we team with uae against them. we move our forces as necessary to stop their individual attacks, i think that's smart strategy and that's what we're seeing by the administration. >> jon >> elsewhere in israel some debate about pauses that suggest hamas will be willing to let a number of hostages go, exact number unclear, a dozen or so, to have a more substantial pause, they're asking for thee days, israel to this point, the government is suggesting that's too long, an hour or two, they feel that a three-day pause would allow hamas to re-arm and strike back. how tricky this is, cease-fire versus pause, a pause, how long? what do two you make of three-day offer? >> let's think of it running on a spectrum, jonathan, that goes from an all-out cease-fire, pencils down, we all stop military operations indefinitely, that's a cease-fire, that's not going to happen for reasons that both sides are following. at the other end of that spectrum are tiny, little, teeny, an hour here, three days here, let's figure out where we want to be on the spectrum. i'd argue the hostages' lives matter, they matter deeply, so we've got to be able to kind of move the dial substantially so that we can get some of them released but we can't allow hamas to fully re-arm, resupply themselves, conduct serious command and control, all of that has to be stopped, we need to think about this jonathan as a spectrum, i'd argue at this stage of the negotiation putting hostage lives for the top matters and in the big picture, believe me israel's going to continue this campaign. >> admiral, i'm curious how you'd characterize how president biden and tony blinken are navigating the relationship not with israel, but with benjamin netanyahu, is he an honest partner? what would your advice be on holding him accountable. >> i think at this point we ought to be following that classic leadership dictum of criticize in private, support in public. and your father, mika, was a master of this, you have to know when to close the door, take the gloves off and say, look, we the united states have leverage here and we do. we're supplying them enormous levels of not only diplomatic and political support but real military support in the region, that matters to the israelis, we ought to be unafraid to close the door and roll that in front of bibi netanyahu, he better start listening because the patience of the administration is not infinite. >> admiral, got to ask about ukraine, we heard some of the candidates last night on stage sort of getting weak-kneed about the support, some of that from congress as well, do you have concerns that the american focus on israel now takes away from its commitment to ukraine? >> yes, i do. thank you for bringing it up. it's hard to hear the word "ukraine" on many networks. that's fight that matters for the united states. it matters for democracy and it matters for europe and the global economy and above all it matters showing putin that he cannot succeed in this kind of truly evil diabolical scheme to conquer a nation. we need to stand against us. willie, i'm confident on this one, the center will hold ultimately and we'll support the ukrainians. >> we did hear governor christie and ambassador haley make strong cases last night for continued support for ukraine and why it's important to our national interests. james stavridis, great to have you as always. coming up a major development in that actors strike, a tentative deal that could end the work stoppage and help revive an industry that's been paralyzed for months now. details straight ahead on "morning joe." ng joe." he hits his mark —center stage—and is crushed by a baby grand piano. you're replacing me? 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(♪♪) finally three pandas from the smithsonian national zoo were returned to china today. packed on a cargo plane as southwest calls. end of era of panda diplomacy. the smithsonian national zoo and panda lovers said their emotional good bye as the beloved bears left washington, d.c. headed to china aboard a fedex called the panda express. tian tian and mei, their cub was born in 2020. the first time in decades the zoo will be without pandas, which have been a fixture there since 1972 when china gifted two pandas to the national zoo as a gesture of goodwill during president nixon's administration. while the zoo is hopeful pandas can return to the u.s. soon, there's been no word from chinese officials on a renewed lease. as it stands, there are only four pandas that remain in the u.s., two adults and two cubs. at zoo atlanta. they're set to return to china some time next year. hollywood actors are headed back to work. sag-aftra announced a tentative agreement with major tv and movie studios that could mark the end of a historic 118-day strike the deal comes over a month after hollywood writers ended their strike. details of the agreement weren't immediately released. actors have been calling for similar demands like better pay, bigger cut of streaming profits and safeguards against artificial intelligence in the industry. still ahead, peter baker of "the new york times" will join us with his analysis of tuesday's election results and what they mean for president biden and his party. plus, former governor chris christie will be our guest. did his performance at last night's debate change things? 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>> yeah, i don't think anybody stood out necessarily on abortion, didn't come up for much of the debate, you didn't really hear an outline or plan how republicans should proceed on that issue to turn it back to their advantage. you heard a foreign policy-oriented debate, lot of talk about israel and ukraine. an area where nikki haley is the most comfortable having spent time as ambassador to the united nations. she took a hawkish position, stood out in that way. ron desantis, he did the most he's done to this point to distinguish himself from donald trump. the clips you played made clear as they distinguish themselves from donald trump the distinction is not on over trying to hold on the power. he didn't build a wall, said desantis. it was an interesting debate of course for those who were looking to see who might emerge as an ale tern tif. >> such a resounding win for the democrats just the night before, i'm curious if you found any candidate that really could address why that loss happened, because, again, remember the red wave that was expected in midterms of the past, it never happened, the losing keeps happening, ron desantis talks about donald trump losing over and over again, but i'm talking about the republican party as a whole, any candidate last night who could address the two key issues at least, possibly three, that are holding this party back. donald trump being the number one issue. >> yeah, i mean, you didn't hear a lot of that, obviously you heard desantis make a passing effort to blame the election losses on trump's leadership. you heard vivek ramaswamy blame it on ronna mcdaniel, but there wasn't really a deep analysis of where they have gone wrong or re-think their posture here, they lost in 2018, they lost in 2020, they didn't do as well as they expected in 202. obviously lost this week. and it's a very evenly divided country. it's still a close call, as much as the democrats had a pretty good night on tuesday, it could have been different. i did the math last night, in virginia where the democrats took both houses of the legislature, they had the house and took the senate and defeated glenn young kin's effort to take over. switch 800 votes of one house district and the democrats would not have won the legislature. it's a reminder of how close and how hard fought these competitive races really are and a lot of democratic strategists i talked to yesterday said, you know, offered caution about over-interpreting this week. >> do these results on tuesday apply to joe biden or a separate issue altogether comes to 2024? >> an nbc news political commentator. congressman, you're part of that debate last night in south florida, what do you make of what you saw and that split screen of the guy up 35, 40 points, depending on your poll not on the stage while five others debate each other. >> donald trump made the decision, again, not to participate in a debate and in an indirect way he addressed one of the criticisms that he most often faces from his republican rivals which is he's not electable, he had a rally with couple thousand people, all immigrants from all parts of latin america, cuba, nicaragua, making the point, i can grow the republican party, i do bring forward, you know, a diverse set of supporters, at the debate i really do think that nikki haley and ron desantis turned in adequate performance, i think they solidified their position as the two top-tier candidates in this race for second place. this race for president seems very stable on the surface, but there's a lot going on beneath the surface in both parties. right now it looks like trump versus biden but anything can happen. nikki haley and ron desantis continue to be the two leading candidate. >> reporter: all five candidates tied in knots on what to make of what happened on tuesday. former president trump blamed the loss of daniel cameron who he endorsed for governor for kentucky blamed on mitch mcconnel he wrote, daniel cameron lost because he couldn't alleviate the stench of mitch mcconnell. meanwhile, florida governor desantis acknowledged the party's poor performance across the board by highlighting his state's big wins. the party's message on abortion seems to be -- candidates now are being encouraged to make clear to voters they do not favor a national ban on all abortions, in order to win competitive races in 2024. meanwhile, just yesterday, republican senator lindsey graham of south carolina said, he plans eventually to re-introduce his 15-week national abortion ban proposal, an idea proposed on the stage from senator scott and some others last night the threshold should be at 15 weeks, how now given the results of the last 18 months post-dobbs should the republicans be confronting this issue going foward. >> it seems like nikki haley is the only republican candidate is attune to what general election voters, majority of the country thinks about this issue, she made it clear that she would not pursue a federal abortion ban and an issue should be made by each state. she respects the right of those states to have those laws. so like donald trump, who has danced around this issue many times, it seems like nikki haley of the five on stage last night is the only one who understands the peril this issue represents for the republicans. the script has flipped. the republicans have gone on offense in suburban districts and swing states. the issue has become extremely toxic for them and major threat for whoever the nominee is in 2024. >> the fallout for republicans from the elections on tuesday, let's switch now to democrats and one democrat in particular, president joe biden, certainly a good night for his party, but it seems a little less clear what it means for him and his chances in november of 2024. what's your analysis? >> yeah, i mean, it was a good week for him, particularly well timed one, of course the party was engaged in deep angst after that "the new york times"/siena poll showing the president losing in five key battleground states to mr. trump, this allowed them some breathing space, see, you guys get worked up on polls but when it comes to actual elections democrats have been outperforming, you know, in cycle after cycle and the pundits have it wrong. that's a helpful for them in their narrative. democrats say the elections on tuesday night may have happened in spite of president rather than because of him. governor beshear won in a red state. you know, did he win because biden didn't hurt or because he ran away from biden? republicans spent $30 million attacking him for being a biden clone, it didn't work, therefore we should take solace from that. it's a whole different environment over the next year, we don't know what's going happen, obviously the biden camp's best argument at this point donald trump is going to be the other candidate most likely and biden is a democrat who has beaten before and there's such angst among the party right now, his age has drained a lot of support, polls continue to show weak support even in places like california. majority of californians disapprove of his performance. he has a lot of challenges ahead despite this week's elections but it helps to have a winner. >> just a few miles down the road from debate donald trump held this counterprogramming event last night, it's a nearby rally, the republican primary front-runner blasted his gop opponents and president joe biden while offering more kind words for authoritarians around the world for the third time in the last few weeks, trump incorrectly stated last night that hungry shares a border with both ukraine and russia. in a separate moment, he compared for north korean leader kim jong-un with chinese president xi jinping. take a look. >> a very great head of a country, viktor orban, hungary, fronts on both russia and ukraine. he told me a lot of things, a great guy. you deal with all these people. the press hates when i say they're smart. he said they were smart. well, what am i supposed to say? kim jong-un leads 1.4 billion people and there's month doubt who the boss is. >> after that rally a trump campaign adviser told reporters that the former president planned to skip the next republican primary debate as well. carlos, no big surprise there. when you look at that, i'm just curious, i guess, the question is, if any of the other republican candidates, chris christie has come the closest and he's dealt with the reality of trump firsthand with voters but if the other republican candidates started talking about trump in realistic terms would they still lose primary support? >> mika, look, the reality of the republican primary right now you can't go through donald trump to win the nomination, you can't follow donald trump to win the nomination, ron desantis has tried to do that and he failed. you have to find a way to go around donald trump and that's what nikki haley is trying to do, the sweet spot that she's trying to find, look it's easy to point out all of donald trump's flaws to criticize some of the horrible things he says, i mean, we just heard what he said about dictators. lot of people at that event probably didn't know what he was talking, because they themselves were victims of dictators. given the reality of the republican primaries right now you can't go through donald trump. >> gaffe after gaffe at these rallies. increasingly so, unclear it matters to his base of supporters. peter baker, let me ask you, we had governor desantis on our show last week, i asked him flatly, what's your theory of the case right now, you're down by 30, down by 35, 40 points, pick your poll, hanging around, you think there's a way the close the gap, is it because the former president could be convicted and therefore you're the last man standing? there's this talk about consolidating behind one candidate to be the alternative, maybe it's governor desantis, ambassador haley, what does that group on that stage last night, what's their thought process, what's the strategy here? >> i think you got it right the goal at this point is to be the one person who can surprise the political world with a good second place finish in iowa or new hampshire and perhaps get a little bit of momentum, perhaps the sight of the former president on trial in the spring begins to sink and make republican voters worry about whether or not he's the best choice to take on joe biden in the fall, someone they'd like to beat. it's a long shot at this point. they're so far behind. nonincumbent front-runner this far ahead at this point many cycle that someone was able to catch up. it seems to be ron desantis and nikki haley battling it out for the alternative spot. new hampshire and iowa are famously individualistic states that view things through their own lens. they could build momentum and get money from donors as the anointed choice to be the alternative. again, it'sobviously, you know, a clearly winning strategy. >> chief white house correspondent for "the new york times" peter baker and former congressman carlos cabello, thank you still ahead the latest out of the middle east, where negotiations are under way for the release of more hostages who are being held by hamas terrorists. plus, a conversation on the sense of service among israelis amid this war. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. joe." we'll be right back. bring it to safelite. my customer was enjoying her new car, when her windshield cracked. 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well, when you opened up the chewy box, you went a bit... ...bonkers. that's one word for it. i guess i blacked out. this is the best squeaky toy ever. probably shouldn't. but we did get you a few more gifts. honey. ooh, there's more. chewy's prices were so great. you don't need to explain yourself, linda. keep on saving. pet's aren't just pets. they're more. well, i hope i got a leaf blower this year. you got a turtleneck. unwrap the excitement with deals up to 40% off at chewy. i would be telling bibi finish the job once and for all with these butchers hamas, they're terrorists. they're massacring innocent people, they would wipe every jew off the globe if they could. he cannot live with that threat right by his country. the hamas should release every hostage and they should unconditionally surrender. i'm sick of hearing the media blame israel for defending themselves. >> first thing i said to him when it happened, i said finish them. finish them. the reason is, i worked on this every day when i was at the united nations. and we have to remember they have to eliminate hamas, support israel with whatever they need when ever they need it and bring our hostages home, the last thing we immediate to do is tell israel what to do, the only thing we should be doing is supporting them in eliminating hamas, it's not that israel needs america, america needs israel, they're the tip of the sphere when it comes to this islamic terrorism and we need to make sure that we have their backs in this process. >> it's absolutely our obligation to protect the territorial integrity of israel, secondly, to make sure you protect the security and safety of your people, you must go in and make sure hamas never does this again. israel and their intelligence community failed. they failed here and they failed the people of the state of israel, we need to work closely and better together, one, that we know everything going on inside the gaza strip when something like this can't happen again. when asked what advice they would give to israeli prime minister netanyahu, negotiations are under way for hamas to release up to 15 hostages in gaza in return israel it says must pause its attacks for three days according to officials briefed on those discussions. the biden administration has been pushing for a humanitarian pauses as officials believe 240 people are being held captive in gaza including americans. and more humanitarian aid to be shipped into the territory, food, water, medical supplies running low again. israel has not been letting fuel to enter the territory at all, which the u.n. says is now forcing hospitals to shut down but american officials say hamas is actually hoarding thousands of gallons of fuel that could be used in that effort. joining us now is dan senor. dan, it's so great to see you. tragically well timed book, if i could put it that way, that just came out this week in the middle of what we're seeing right now. on the news, this idea of cease-fires, pauses, humanitarian breaks, cease-fire obviously is a nonstarter for israel, where should israel be on that question on, let's let the aid in we're helping the civilians. >> i think letting in the aid to the extent that it does not in any way interfere with israel's war plans, to eradicate hamas, is worthy and so as long as whatever aid they let in doesn't get hoarded by hamas. if it's getting to the right people in southern gaza and it doesn't interfere with hamas. these negotiations are a different issue, i think hamas really wants a pause desperately, because the israeli incursion, is going much better than anyone expected, it's going better than the israelis expected. >> when you say that by what standard? >> i think there was a concern in the last time israel went in on the ground in 20, the casualties for israelis the boobytraps the battlefield was set up to -- israel. the fighting in the air before they went in on the ground they were able to do a lot of damage that took away the infrastructure and made the incursion smoother. it's going well for the israelis. hamas wants a pause. >> you understand israel so well. you've written a number of books on this. dan, despite the fact for 75 years israel has been under assault in the middle east, how the events of october 7th are different and how they've shaken that country and jews around the country. >> two things. first, october 7th was the most existential threat facing israel since the 1973 yom kippur war and probably worse, because the war was a huge setback but israel did most of the fighting not in civilian areas. on october 7th a real sense that enemy burst into israel and took over civilian areas, made the idf look a paper tiger. in 1973 you didn't have this antisemitic ripple effect. i'm a son of holocaust survivor. despite the stories my mother told me i never felt physically vulnerable. my kids go to jewish day school. you walk around the streets of new york, you're like, you kind of looked over my shoulder, i never felt that way before. >> dan, what's been shocking a lot of people is how out in the open it is, people marching through times square, across college campuses, ripping down posters in new york city of child hostages inside of gaza, how did we get to this point? they have license to put it out in the open. >> the legit maization, yes, these terrible things happened on october 7th to israel, but have you thought about the fact of the suffering of palestinians, important issues. it was about wiping the jews out of territory that's not under dispute. but out of the ashes of this, i'm trying to remind jews because every jew i know is going through this period of feeling horrified. i'm trying to remind people there's a kernel of hope and optimism. i was just with a group of israeli jews, and these israelis were here for raising relief funds for israel. trying to console them, they said, we'll be okay, we know how to come together, we have an amazing society, we have vibrant society, the society we write about in our book. we're worried about you guys, the united states, in that, if you look at what's happening israel right now, mandatory national service, every israeli serves in the military, when we finishing this book, the country was deeply divided over judicial reform, since october 7th you've seen the country come together from ultra-religious, billionaires kids to taxi driver kids serving in same military. they've come together and they've really rallied. quite inspiring to see. i've been asked a lot, would people come together in the united states? i think it's beautiful people are coming together in israel because they have this infrastructure of compulsory service, they is a national service program that doesn't allow you to look at other people as the other. they're all part of your community, that to us is the genius of israel, you're seeing it right now playing out in quite beautiful ways. so this is a terrible time for israel and jews around the world. it's going to be a rough few months, i think there's lot to learn from israel particular in this moment. >> as you say it's about service, we've seen hundreds of thousands of reservists kaultsdz up. we've seen that service up and down the economic ladder. in the united states less than 1% of our population serves. it's the service. what about this nation of israel that allows it to be resilience as it is. >> several themes, one of the big factors in the book, i ask americans all the time, tell me a ritual that you participate in a regular basis that your family participates in and you know the whole country is sharing in that moment with you like you're experiencing, they usually say thanksgiving. every year my family gets together. i said, great. give me a second one, they always say the super bowl. which is true. i'm a football fan. that's great. in israel, every single friday night, the country more or less shut downs because of sabbath, it's a weekly ritual, it crosses the entire religious spectrum. they do it to varying degrees. but the idea is, every friday night you as a family stop. you stop with your work life, you get out of the rat race and you sit down with multigenerations, usually two, three sometimes four generations, friends, get together and when you're doing it you know the whole country is doing it, too, the statistics show 80% of israelis do something meaningful on shabbat. a country experiencing the same thing. through someone who's not from israel, a journalist from san francisco, asian american, not jewish, moves to israel to be with her boyfriend, studies at tel aviv university, on memorial day, she thinks it's like memorial day here, in israel a siren goes off across the country like the sirens going off now because of the war, the same siren system, a siren goes off across the entire country for two minutes, everyone gets out of their car, people walk out restaurants, hotels, classrooms, wherever they are, the images are so powerful, we describe it in the opening of the book n that two minutes a personal moment and collective moment. personal in everyone's thinking about a loved one that has been lost, a fallen school friend, whoever, they're experiencing this moment together of honoring the country. on memorial day is the day before independence day, they link the fallen and the sacrifice of the fallen to the independence of the nation, again, israel has these collective experiences. hard pressed to find in the united states experiences we all share together that remind you're part of something larger. a huge factor. >> a big question we're not going to solve in our remaining minute, looking past this war if we can for a moment, is there any consensus about a acceptable kind of peace? two-state solution? a question, a centuries-old question, whether it's benjamin netanyahu or whoever comes next, what does an acceptable peace look like from israel's point of view not with hamas which is death cult who don't want peace but with the palestinian people. >> conceivable no time soon but conceivable that israel could reach some sort of two-state solution with the palestinian. israel left gaza in 2005, the palestinian authority in ramallah was running gaza and hamas staged a violent coup, there are informal talk about bringing the palestinian authority back there, you know, obviously there are some limits to the leadership of palestine ian. but the key thing here is, political sovereignty can be give on the palestinians and i think it should be, the question is, what do you do about securing the borders? israel's border, west bank's border with jordan. gaza's border witegypt. does have israel have to have a presence there? israel particularly after october 7th doesn't want to rely on third parties, palestinian security forces to be defending these borders, i think we're a ways away. i think we get saudi normalization that's not dead. >> dan senor, so great to see you. back to politics now as national republicans come off another year of election losses, they appear to be ignoring a major issue impacting their electoral chances and that is election denialism, republican candidates who have run on it, kari lake of arizona, doug mastriano of pennsylvania, all lost their races by major margins in 2022 and the trend continued this year with tuesday's elections, republican secretary of state michael adams of kentucky faced two primary candidates who ran on election denialism, adams ended up trouncing both candidates. nning by roughly 40 points and the general election over 20 points. how important will the issue be going into 2024, the issue of truth and integrity of our elections and getting truth to the electorate and trust back into the process. joining us now is georgia's republican secretary of state brad raffensperger, first of all, there's a new gallup survey that shows widespread distrust in american elections, i think half of those polled had faith in their own state. but there were far more skeptical of other states. what do you make of that and is that a concern moving forward? >> the reasons, i wrote a recent conversation with the lieutenant governor from utah and scott schwab secretary of state, of kansas, people can trust the elections. we have had the 2021, '22 and '23 election. other than 2020, no one was questioning the results this past election. secretary of state in kentucky won a huge race, he did his job and continued to just, you know, find that middle ground of commonsense and just do the job and explain to people we're having fair, honest elections. that's what people need to understand. we have fair, accurate elections in georgia. i guess people don't want accurate elections sometimes. the problem they may have, they put up candidates that don't build broad-base coalitions. michael adams built a broad-based coalition. kentucky kept a republican in the attorney general spot, that gentleman won because i think he just did his job and focused on the issues and all this election denialism is not a winning strategy and i think republicans need to wake up to that, if you make sure that you speak the truth to people and build confidence that we do have fair and honest elections and run on the issues that are really important to you. >> i think the republicans who stand by election denialism or at least don't talk about it fear they'll lose support in their primaries if they tell the truth. am i -- is that a correct analysis? because i don't understand why even last night in the debate, the candidates running against donald trump can't actually honestly talk about some of the things that went wrong. >> well, when i ran in my race, i had to get through the republican primary, i went out and talked to republican voters and i won my primary race over 20%, i won really large, you have to be able to address the issues and talk to people and explain to them that we have fair, honest elections. we can pre-process the absentee ballots. photo of i.d.s in the state of georgia. all those data points. i explain to them what happened in 2018, the republicans congressman got about 28,000 more votes than collectively than president trump did, that's why he came up short, it's as simple as that. we had a fair, honest election and we'll have a fair, honest election in 2024. >> when it comes to trusting certain party to accept election results, americans believe according this survey democrats are more likely to accept the results by 20 points. how does the republican party regain that trust with the public? >> continue to have people run for these offices who speak the truth and actually go out and talk to the people. i think it's just dealing with people one-on-one or in small groups and just going out and having conversations and telling them if you have questions about it volunteer to be poll worker. if you have questions volunteer to be poll watcher, go through the process, there are checks, double checks and triple checks to ensure the accuracy of the votes. the system is reliable. we'll have in 2024 a polarized election, i understand that, but georgia we'll have fair, honest and accurate elections. the same thing happened in kentucky, when people stood for the truth they were rewarded and it's a red state we had good results at the secretary of state and the attorney general's races. >> georgia's secretary of state brad rafensburger, thank you very much for your service and thank you for being on this morning. >> thank you. coming up, republican presidential candidate and former new jersey governor chris christie will join us from miami, where he and four other gop candidates battled it out on stage in the third republican presidential primary debate. we'll discuss how things went and later, senator dick durbin joins us to talk about the big wins democrats had across the country this week and what it might mean for 2024. you're watching "morning joe" we'll be right back. 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[ cheers ] >> somebody said, oh, one of the dumber ones, he doesn't have the courage to stand up. well, listen, i'm standing in front of tens of thousands of people right now and it's on television. that's a hell a lot harder to do than a debate. >> okay, maybe it wasn't tens of thousands of people, but donald trump defending his decision to skip the third republican primary debate last night at a rally just down the road. joining us now republican presidential candidate and former new jersey governor, chris christie, how do you respond to trump's argument we just heard about not attending the debate. >> well, look, he's a coward and he's always been a coward in this race. he doesn't want to defend his record and if i were under four indictments in four different jurisdictions and out on bail in four different jurisdictions i wouldn't want to get on a stage and answers questions about how you're going to be represent this party and take on president joe biden and what we saw on tuesday night is another example of folks who have the trump -- can't win in this country. daniel cameron loses an election in kentucky, because he sold his soul to donald trump. the fact is no one on that stage last night other than me will take him on. at least two of them did a weak pass-by of donald trump. but they're unwilling to take him on. i've been suffered spots in his cabinet, i've turned them down. i want to be president of the united states. >> so what do you make of the democrats' big wins in kentucky, ohio and virginia on tuesday night? and what do republicans need to do to try and even compete? >> well, it shows that he's continued electoral and political poison, mika, in virginia, you know, with popular governor in glenn youngkin, you can't overcome the stench of donald trump's political narcissism, that's the bottom line, and you know, that's why folks at the rnc, who are two-thirds of them are donald trump supporters, they don't want any opposition to him on a debate stage, but the fact is, i'm not going anywhere and i'll continue to bring the case to him and against him, because he's wrong for our country and wrong for our party. >> yeah, another issue you talked about last night was abortion, we disagree on this issue, but the one thing you keep saying, you keep talking about abortion in the ninth month which is allowed in your state, last time bring me a case where a woman walked into doctor's office in the ninth month and i decided not to have a baby, it doesn't happen, less than 1% of abortions are performed after 21 weeks and if there's a situation like that, it's because there's a massive emergency, so i just think of all the candidates you've been the most honest about trump and election integrity, but in this one respect i have to call you out because you're not being on honest on the issue, we can debate abortion, but there's not abortion in ninth month. >> mika, you're the one who's not being honest, i did not say there was abortion in the ninth month, what i said was that the law in new jersey and new york and illinois and california permits it, you can't deny that's the truth because it is. and so -- >> it doesn't happen, chris. >> don't call me -- >> i'm not calling you a liar. it's not honest. >> mika, nor did i say -- >> let's have an honest discussion about the issue. >> it doesn't happen. >> answer my question, does the law permit it in those states? that's all i said, i don't understand what your problem is with that, in the end if that's the law permits, it's legally permissible. >> you're painting a picture of the abortion that's not honest and this is health issue for women. there are women who are in extreme situations who need healthcare and they should get it. we can debate that. but there are not women in state of mj nj going into doctor's offices asking into doctors' offices asking for abortions in the ninth month. it doesn't happen. >> by the way, you know, you could continue to set up that straw man for yourself to knock it down, because you are mischaracterizing what i said. i am giving you the state of the law. the state of the law in those states are that you could go into a doctor's office and do it, and that's all i said. but, look, you know, this is something that you want to emphasize. i get it. i understand the politics of it and that's fine. it is not going to change my analysis as a lawyer. >> it is not politics. >> and as a political leader. >> it is really personal for women. >> no, no. >> you are the one who is going to lose on the issue if you are not honest about it. >> well, no, no. >> listen, you can do that if you want. >> point out -- mika, point out to me where i wasn't honest. i said what the state of the law is. now, you want to deny that because you know it is miserably unpopular for the state of the law to be in that position, but that's what the state of the law is. now, you could argue about how many people are going to take advantage of it or not. i think it is wrong for anybody to be able to take advantage of an abortion in the ninth month of pregnancy. and i think it is wrong for the law to be there. these are the kind of debates i would love to have on the stage with donald trump and others. if your viewers this morning go to chrischristie.com, i will be on the stage in alabama. maybe we can get you up there and debate the state of the law on the issue. >> exactly. >> but don't mess with me on the law, mika. i know that. >> don't mess with me on how women feel about using the ninth month argument on the issue of abortion. we can disagree. >> i'm not. >> let me ask how you win on this issue given where the country is on abortion and what we saw on tuesday night. i include women's health care in the word abortion. >> i think if you listen to my entire answer from last night you will know how we win. i have said that for 50 years conservative lawyers have argued that it does not belong in the federal courts because it is not a constitutional issue. dobbs decided that. what i have said now is each one of the 50 states should make their own decision. while i don't agree with oklahoma's decision that there's no abortion except if the life of the mother is challenged and we have discussed ad nauseam the nine-month issue, each state and the people of that state most importantly like they did in ohio tuesday night should be entitled to make that decision. the federal government should not be involved in making that decision. it should be a decision made in each individual state. when the people of those states get to make the decision, then i think justice is done. that's the way i would handle it as president. as i have said in each one of the debates when the issue has come up, it should not be an issue that the federal government is involved in unless there is a consensus that's formed when all 50 states and their citizens make that decision. i don't see that happening, but if it did then the feds could decide to get involved but not now and not before all 50 states are able to weigh in themselves. >> and voters have been speaking loudly, governor, for the last year and a half since dobbs was overturned. good morning. i want to ask you about the state of play in the republican race. i think a lot of people watched that debate, watched the five of you or at least four of the five of you be fluent on a number of issues, even if they disagree. they think that you're in public service for the right reason and say, okay, i can see him or her being a nominee, and then you sort of snap out of it and go, oh, right, the guy up by 30 points is up the road holding a rally. what is your theory of the case right now, governor? we are about two months away from votes being cast in january. your theory of the case right now, how do you climb the ladder to get donald trump? >> well, first off, i want everybody to be prepared for a very long race. this is a race that's going to go all the way to the convention. i'm going to be in this all the way to the convention because here is what is going to happen, willie. in march donald trump the day before super tuesday is going on trial, and the first witness against him, sitting 20 feet away from him in a courtroom, is not going to be some rogue democrat, it is not going to be some product of the two-tier justice system. it is going to be mark meadows, one of the founders of the freedom caucus from north carolina and one of his chiefs of staff. in fact, the chief of staff he said was like james baker. he's going to be saying in front of a jury that donald trump was lying beginning on election night, that he knew he was lying, and that he broke laws right in front of him. donald trump is going to be convicted, and what that new york times poll from earlier this week shows you is that when he is convicted of a crime his support collapses, especially in all of the swing states that he was doing well in, but after a conviction he will lose every one of those states to joe biden. republican voters are going to get smart about that. they're going to see it and they're not going to make him our nominee, but we're going to have to fight it all the way to the convention. that's exactly what i intend to do because i'm the only candidate who has been making the case against donald trump from the day i entered the race. not that he is not good for the party, which he isn't, but he is unfit to be president of the united states, that our standards have to be higher than having a liar in the oval office, a criminal in the oval office. i am going to continue to make that case right up and to the convention. when we beat him then, everyone is going to say, wow, we should have seen it before. i'm not looking for anybody to be able to see it now. i see it, i know it is going to happen. the american people and the republican party voters are not going to send a criminal as the nominee against joe biden. >> what is clear is that you are going to hang in as long as it takes because you believe the trials will pull him in some way away from the nomination and out of the race. you are talking about super tuesday, which means donald trump could have won iowa, new hampshire, nevada, michigan, a host of states by the time you get there. you are saying even if he does that, you still will be in the race? >> yes. >> and you expect to win the nomination even if he has won all of those states already? >> well, sure, because what is going to happen is he is going to start losing as soon as he spends every day in a courtroom in washington, d.c., having his former lawyers and his former chief of staff call him a liar and say that he broke the law and that they with him broke the law. that is going to be devastating testimony for the american people to hear and to absorb, and republican primary voters are going to say, you know what? we can't put up with another four years of joe biden. he is a sure loser. >> no. >> as he was a sure loser in 2018, 2022 and last night. >> chris, i'm curious as we close, why do you think your fellow republican candidates can't speak clearly on this? like they seem to tiptoe around him. nikki haley saying he was the right president at the right time. you are calling him a criminal. he has 91 counts against him. he has been found liable for sexual abuse. the judge actually says it was rape. the list goes on and on and on. why can't they be honest about donald trump? >> two reasons, mika. one, they're afraid of him. i have known him for 22 years and know there's nothing to fear. two, they kind of hope that if he is the nominee they'll wind up as his vp running mate or in his cabinet. like i said off the top, you know, i had the chance to be in his cabinet four different times and to be his white house chief of staff but i turned them all down because i couldn't work with someone like that. now, in the end they don't have the courage to take him on directly which means they're playing for second place. i'm playing to win the nomination, to defeat him and to get him out of our party. how much more losing do we have to do? i mean ron desantis said it last night, that he is tired of losing but he can't get the guts to be able to say that donald trump is unfit for the office. so that's why it is so important. imagine that debate stage, mika, if i was not there. it would be a bunch of timid trump acolytes who all they care about in currying his favor. that's why your viewers have to go to chrischristie.com and make sure i'm on the stage in november because the rnc doesn't want people who will criticize trump on the stage but i won't. >> thanks for coming back on the show. see you next time. >> willie and mika, thank you very much for having me. have a great day. >> all right. you too. so the war between israel and hamas has now entered its second month and there are growing fears the conflict may widen. the pentagon says a u.s. military surveillance drone was shot down off the coast of yemen yesterday. iran-backed houthi rebels are believed to be response. then the response to attacks on u.s. bases in syria and iraq. joining us, retired rear admiral john kirby. john lemere, you have the first question for the admiral. >> i want to get you to weigh in on that because of the proxy groups and more violence in the region outside of the direct conflict, but if you could weigh in on what we heard from the republican tage last night. a number of the candidates calling for the u.s. to hit tehran, go after tehran itself. is that something the administration is considering? >> obviously i'm not going to speak to the electoral campaign season and what is said on the debate stage, but i can unpack this quickly. first of all, this retaliatory strike hit a weapons facility we know was managed and run by the irgc, the iranian revolutionary guard force, this force that is supplying munitions and weapons to proxy groups that have been striking at our groups and facilities. we will do what we have to do to protect ourselves. now these groups and the irgc have a choice to make. they want to keep attacking our troops and facilities, then they have to keep answering for the consequences that come as a result of that. we don't seek an escalation of this conflict between israel and hamas. we don't seek a conflict with iran. nobody's after escalation here. what we're trying to do is deescalate and deter, and that's the focus of not only the strikes in syria but the force posture moves we've been making in the region. >> admiral, there's been a discussion about humanitarian pauses in order to get aid into gaza, to get civilians out of gaza. there's reporting hamas released some hostages, a number of hostages if there were a three-day pause. it seems it has been rejected by israel. prime minister netanyahu suggested he would be open to a pause, but only an hour or two. a number of democratic senators have said that's not enough to get aid in and out. what does the administration feel, is a pause, an hour here and there to quote the prime minister, is that enough? >> we believe humanitarian pause, and we talk about them in a plural sense, should be for the length of time and for the geographic scope they need to be to accomplish whatever the goal is. if you are talking about moving hostages out, if you are talking about a big body of hostages, if we're able to negotiate for a large number of the 240 or so held hostage, obviously you want flexibility on how long it is going to take to move them safely from where they're being held to israel and to safe ground. other humanitarian pauses could be for shorter duration. so i don't think we're ruling in or out any specific duration. each pause needs to be taken on its own merits for the goals that it is trying to achieve. >> all right. national security council coordinator for strategic communications at the white house, retired rear admiral john kirby. thank you very much. >> yes, ma'am. >> we appreciate it. >> yes, ma'am. >> all right. take care. in the third hour of "morning joe" continues right now. i would say that a package, a package that's been offered by the president for ukraine and israel, that's the wrong approach. >> no, i don't think we should give them cash. i think we should give them the equipment and the ammunition to win. >> we need to stand by them, and those of us who forget history are doomed to repeat it. >> biden wants $105 billion. 60, most of that is ukraine including some going to pay pensions for bureaucrats and salaries. that is a totally ridiculous use of american tax dollars. >> an attempt at nuanced debate on foreign policy between republican presidential candidates last night in miami that ultimately may not matter at all. there is a lot to cover from the showdown in miami last night, which was less chaotic with fewer candidates on stage, but just like the previous debates, willie, the front-runner was not there and for the most part the other candidates did not attack the former president who is leading by wide margins in the polls. they didn't even touch him. they didn't talk about the problem of truth versus lies and donald trump. meanwhile, trump's daughter took the stand in new york yesterday in the civil fraud trial against the family's business. we will go through ivanka trump's testimony. also ahead, the latest on a significant development in the middle east. negotiations are underway to release more hostages being held by hamas. plus, it appears hollywood is ready to get back to work. we will have an update on the historic actors strike that's been going on for almost four months. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it is thursday, november 9th. what a week it has been, willie. last night they didn't talk about donald trump and they didn't talk about the historic losses from the night before, the issue of abortion. i mean what -- i don't know what moves the meter for any of these candidates. >> yeah. donald trump was -- they asked about him at the beginning. they answered that question once. why are you better to be the nominee than donald trump, and then they moved on from it. they did talk later in the second hour about abortion and the night before, and you could really hear them walking that line. we saw what happened on tuesday night. >> tippy, tippy toe. >> we got smoked on the issue of abortion but they don't quite know how to grapple with it. so did it move the meter in a race where the real clear average has donald trump up 35, 40 points over everyone on the stage? probably not, but let's take a look at what happened last night anyway. the host of "way too early" white house bureau chief at "politico" jonathan lemire is with us, charlie psyches, and former white house director of communications for barack obama, jen palmeri, co-host of the podcast "how to win 2024." the third republican primary debate hosted by nbc news, five candidates on the stage last night in miami, ron desantis, nikki haley, tim scott, vivek ramaswamy and chris christie. they sparred over a number of issues from israel's war with hamas to abortion. donald trump, as we said, a no-show. he instead held a rally in a miami suburb. for the first question of the night the candidates were asked why they should be the republican nominee for president instead of donald trump. here were their answers. >> and donald trump's a lot different guy than he was in 2016. he owes it to you to be on this stage and explain why he should get another chance. he should explain why he didn't have mexico pay for the border wall. he should explain why he racked up so much debt. he should explain why he didn't drain the swamp, and he said republicans were going to get tired of winning. well, we saw last night, i'm sick of republicans losing. >> i can tell you that i think he was the right president at the right time. i don't think he's the right president now. i think that he put us $8 trillion in debt and our kids are never going to forgive us for that. >> anybody who will be spending the next year and a half of their life focusing on keeping themselves out of jail in courtrooms cannot lead this party or this country. >> we need a president and a candidate who will actually help our base solidify and attract independent voters into our party. >> so those are four of the five answers to that question about donald trump. we didn't show vivek ramaswamy. he didn't answer the question. he attacked the moderators instead. >> yes. >> charlie sykes, let me begin this conversation with you. in a parallel universe there were three, four even candidates up there who could be a strong republican nominee in the pre-trump world. but as i said, they all trail him if you look at national polls or even in the early state polls by 30, 40 points. so what did we gather from last night? >> yeah, this is a surreal moment. i mean i think we need to pull back for the reality check that, you know, we are at a moment now where the former president of the united states is on trial for more than 90 felony counts and fraud allegations, refuses to show up to any of the debates, and it barely registers as an issue and he is up by 30 points. so what you saw last night was almost a -- it was a -- you know, going through the motions of a debate, as if it was going to make a difference. the only thing that's at stake now is who is going to be in second place, who will be the last person standing before donald trump clenches this nomination. but it is just an amazing moment that donald trump has made the calculation that he doesn't need to explain any of those things. he doesn't need to answer. he doesn't need to be on the stage. the rnc basically is completely powerless. so what you saw was a group of folks that are running against donald trump but have not yet figured out how to do it, which is really remarkable when you consider all of the things that are on the plate for donald trump. this is a man who has been found liable for rape. this is a man facing charges for violating the espionage act, to tried to overthrow the government, who is sitting in a new york courtroom because his entire business empire is based on fraud, and yet these republican candidates cannot figure out how to run against him. it is an extraordinary moment. >> yeah, they didn't mention anything you just laid out very easily, we didn't hear last night. we heard governor christie say this guy will be in a courtroom all year next year, i don't think he should be our nominee but didn't get specific on taking nuclear secrets of documents back to his beach club, attempting to overturn an election, shaking the foundation of democracy. didn't hear any of that. jen palmeri, you were at the trump rally nearby. some glancing blows i think at some of the candidates running against him. what else did you hear last night? >> mostly it was the standard fare. you heard about shifty schiff, you heard about ron desanctimonious. he did not address nikki haley by name, he called her bird brain. but the only real acknowledgement there was a debate was him saying are is a debate someplace else, i'm on tage in front of tens of thousands of cheering people. there were not tens of thousands. as you might imagine, willie, there were not tens of thousands in hialeah last night. capacity was 5,000. it was a good-size crowd. i saw ron desantis's tweeted a part of the stadium that was not filled, but, you know, there's not one person on that stage last night could attract a crowd that's a fraction of what we saw turn out for trump in hialeah last night. but the team, it is interesting, the team did seem to want to take the debate somewhat seriously, at least acknowledge it. they had what they called a spin room, which was really just -- which was a bunch of trump supporters standing in front of us. like they lead us talk to campaign officials while trump supporters were watching us, and they wanted to acknowledge the debate. they didn't really hit people. they just said that they didn't feel he needed to debate here. they said trump would definitely debate biden, but the thing that came -- that was clear after talking to some of these trump folks was they don't know what to do about abortion, you know. they saw what happened on wednesday night -- excuse me, tuesday night, and talked to me about a moderated stance, you know. i'm using air quotes on that, on abortion, something like maybe a 15-week ban. but as i noted, that didn't work in virginia so what are you all going to do? that's something they really don't have an answer to. they're not worried about the primary but they don't have an answer to that. >> to jim's point, two topics they can't get their arms around, donald trump and abortion. the republican presidential hopefuls grappled with the party's position on abortion rights following overwhelming victories for reproductive freedom in women's health across the country in tuesday's elections. the five candidates on stage could not agree on how the parties should best handle the issue, including governor ron desantis who signed a six-week abortion ban in florida. >> you got to work from the bottom up. you got to do a better job on these referendum. i think of all of the stuff that's happened to the pro-life cause, they've been caught flat footed on these and they've been losing the referendum. a lot of people voting for the referenda are people who would vote for a republican candidate. so you have to understand how to do that. >> this is a personal issue for every woman and every man. i am unapologetically pro life, not because the republican party tells me to be but because my husband michael was adopted and i had trouble having both of my children so i'm surrounded by blessings. having said that, when you look post-roe, a wrong was made right. they took it out of the hands of the unelected justices and put it in the hands of the people and now we're seeing states vote. what i will tell you, as much as i'm pro life i don't judge anyone for being pro choice and i don't want them to judge me for being pro life. when we look at this some sides are going pro life, i welcome that. to states are going pro choice side, i wish that wasn't the case but the people decided. it will take 60 senate votes, majority of the house and the president to sign it. we haven't had 60 senate votes in over 100 years. we might have 45 pro-life senators. so no republican president can ban abortions anymore than a democrat president can ban these state laws, so let's find consensus. let's agree on how we can ban late-term abortions. let's make sure we encourage adoptions and good, quality adoptions. let's make sure we make contraception accessible. let's make sure none of the state laws put a woman in jail or give her the death penalty for getting an abortion. let's focus on how to save as many babies as we can and support as many moms as we can. >> thank you. >> and stop the judgment. we don't need to divide america over this issue anymore. >> we need a 15-week federal limit. three out of four americans agree with a 15-week limit. 47 out of 50 countries in europe agree with a 15-week limit. i would challenge both nikki and ron to join me at a 15-week limit. >> i trust the people of this country state by state to make the call for themselves. now, that's going to lead to a lot of divergence. in oklahoma you can't get an abortion unless the life of the mother is at risk. in my home state of new jersey it goes up to mine months you can get an abortion. i find that morally reprehensible but that's what the people in my state voted for and we should not short circuit that process until every state's people have the right to weigh in on it. >> okay. what i find morally reprehensible is talking about women have abortions in the ninth month, which chris christie repeatedly does. it is the most ridiculous argument out there, and it is dishonest to say the least. so to this issue though instead of getting into an argument about the fact that that doesn't happen, here we are with joe biden going against the republicans, the front-runner donald trump, and the other republicans trying to beat him in a primary who can't win on abortion and they can't agree on donald trump. nikki haley calling donald trump a person who said that somebody who gets an abortion should be punished was the right president at the right time. the problem is authenticity. the problem is how can they be believable when they are working within a framework that was set up by donald trump write means standing by an entire environment of lies. >> i mean it is remarkable. charlie said it is surreal. it is. that whole debate within the debate that goes on in the republican party where they act as if donald trump isn't there and these candidates, like last night they were going with such precision on each other's records and who -- whose website said what about, you know, some issue at what time on china, but ignoring trump thinking that it is going to matter who the second place finisher is in iowa and new hampshire and south carolina. the theory is that is going to matter. we just haven't seen any evidence that who that second place finisher is going to matter. when i was in hialeah last night talking to trump supporters that are there, they have no awareness there's even a debate last night. there's just not any thought that's given to the primary. but for both -- mika, for both trump and his primary opponents, they really don't know what to do about abortion. nikki haley had a lot of word salad about, you know, trying to -- sounds as if she was moderate but she did not articulate a position at all except to say it would be difficult for congress to actually pass a ban, but she didn't say she wouldn't sign it. she didn't say, you know, she has supported bans when she was governor of her state. and then when i talked to trump campaign folks last night, they too talked about, you know, having a more -- presenting a more moderate view on abortion, but no one can articulate what that is. if you say a 15-week ban, that's what virginia wanted and they lost big. i think the thing for biden that, you know, in terms of how this affects 2024 is we're not really sure what is going to be happening, you know, a year from now, but what we saw on tuesday was a lot of voters turned out to vote for democrats on an issue other than the economy, right. that's what we saw in the mid terms in 2022. that's what we saw in 2023, that these other issues -- in this case it was abortion. you know, it may have been concerns about democracy as well, we don't know, but people are willing to turn out and vote in big numbers for issues other than -- you know, for things other than just the economy. >> jonathan, to that point, the 15-week ban is supposed to be sort of the happy medium for a lot of people like governor glenn youngkin of virginia and they got wiped out in virginia. same -- if you look at the state of ohio, republicans voting in support of abortion rights that they may not agree with necessarily but saying it is none of my business, so we ought to put that in the constitution in the state of ohio. obviously democrats energized by this issue. they're going to make a big focus of that, and democracy, in 2024. how is the biden white house from your reporting looking at what happened on tuesday to pull it forward for another year? >> certainly tuesday a big night for democrats. not quite clear what it means for president joe biden in his reelection bid. certainly his team is going to continue to make abortion a central piece of what they talk about next year. now, the president himself has said he's not always the most personally comfortable talking about it. a lot of his surrogates will. the vice president has stepped up on this particular issue, but they think this next race and the course of every reelection is inherently a referendum on the incumbent, and in this case the economy in a lot of ways but it won't just be that. especially if it is donald trump coming out of the republican field, his trials will dominate the political landscape next year. of course, there's abortion playing, too. charlie sykes, if next year's race is about trump and the abortion, that's really good for joe biden. if it is about joe biden, maybe a little less good for his reelection bid. what is your read as to what we've seen this week, particularly on the abortion issue and how it can shape the contours of 2024? >> no, you're absolutely right about this. i mean, you know, donald trump -- if donald trump is on the ballot this election becomes a referendum on donald trump which is good news for joe biden. look, the abortion issue is not going away. this was one of the big questions of the week, has it lost its salience, is there a sweet-spot. a 15-week ban, is that going to crack the code? i think what we learned this week is voters look at a 15-week ban and they don't focus on the number of weeks but focus on the idea of a ban. they focus on the idea you are trying to take away abortion rights. this is why i think a lot of republicans are freaked out because they're looking at this going, we thought this was the one compromise that would poll well. if it didn't work in virginia, it is not going to work nationally. donald trump is going to try to finesse this issue. he is going to try to portray himself as a moderate deal maker, but the reality is that we would not be having this debate except for donald trump. on the one hand he is saying, i am the one who gave you the supreme court that overturned roe v. wade. we would not be having any of these debates if it were not for donald trump. so he wants to own the end of roe v. wade and yet somehow portray himself as the moderate. i think it is going to be difficult. i think this is going to be one of the real battlegrounds, whether or not donald trump is going to be able to skate away from that. i don't think he is going to be able to do it. >> charlie sykes and jen palmeri, thank you both very much for your analysis this morning. coming up, a live interview with white house press secretary karen jean-pierre. we will talk about the biden administration's approach to the middle east and get reaction to last night's republican debate. that's all straight ahead right here on "morning joe." ♪ limu emu & doug ♪ [bell ringing] and doug says, “you can customize and save hundreds on car insurance with liberty mutual.” he hits his mark —center stage— and is crushed by a baby grand piano. are you replacing me? with this guy? customize and save with liberty bibberty. he doesn't even have a mustache! oh, look! a bibu. 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( ♪♪ ) constant contact. helping the small stand tall. ivanka trump testified in her dad's new york civil fraud trial. yep, which is exciting because now i can complete my set of trump courtroom sketch trading cards. those are nice. ivanka trump took the stand as the last family member ordered to testify in the new york $250 million civil fraud trial. unlike brothers and father, she is not a defendant in this case. she left the trump organization in 2017 to work at the white house. a judge ruled the statute of limitations to charge her has lapsed, but she was still ordered to take the stand as a witness. ivanka testified she was not involved in producing her father's financial statements while working at the company. the attorney general's office says top organization employees would falsify records to inflate donald trump's wealth and to receive favorable financial deals. the judge in the case already has ruled the company committed fraud, trump maintains he did nothing wrong. nbc news is reporting ivanka was largely evasive with her answers on the stand, often responding with the statement, i don't recall, when she was asked about financial documents. new york attorney general letitia james discussed the testimony after leaving the courthouse. >> ivanka trump was cordial. she was disciplined. she was controlled. she was very courteous, but her testimony raises some questions with regards to its credibility, which will be a question for the finder of fact. the reality is that based on the evidence, the documentary evidence, she clearly was involved in negotiating and securing loans, favorable loans for the benefit of the trump organization, for mr. trump and her brothers and for herself. >> joining us now former litigator at msnbc legal analyst lisa ruben. she was in the courtroom at yesterday's trial. lisa, perhaps not as much flash and fire as donald trump when he testified, even don jr. or eric, and we should underline ivanka is not a defendant in this case, just a witness. so walk us through yesterday. what was it like in the room? >> the room was, you know, relatively calm because ivanka as a witness was placid, she was comfortable, she was confident, and she gave the appearance of being cooperative despite saying she didn't recall again and again and again. notwithstanding that, i thought the attorney general did a good job of establishing an overall narrative ivanka trump couldn't dispute or disagree with. nobody else would lend to donald trump, the private wealth management at deutsche bank would and gave him interest rates he liked in exchange for two things, a personal guarantee and net worth of at least $2 billion. even deutsche bank had a limit. by 2016 trump wanted to borrow more money from deutsche bank, unsecured, went all the way up to the president of the bank, and the family's private banker ended up sending ivanka trump a note saying we just couldn't make an exception in this case, willie. >> ivanka is in the white house by 2017 as an adviser along with her husband, jared kushner, to the president. the sons are running the company. so what exactly in terms of this case, the civil fraud case, what is her role? >> her role is in negotiating the loans and the terms of those loans for two projects in particular, the doral golf course and the old post office property in washington, d.c. that's a government property that we know as the trump international hotel dc. that's no longer leased by the trumps. they infamously sold it for $375 million last year, but she was the spearheader of that project from inception to fruition. that means everything from negotiating with over 20 government agencies about the trump's bid for that property to being involved in all of the loan terms. that's really what the attorney general wanted to establish yesterday, was that relationship with deutsche bank and what their conditions of lending were. >> you've been in the room, lisa, for all of the testimony, for the former president of the united states, his three children. that's behind us now. in sum total, was this good for the trump family, was it bad for the trump family to have those four witnesses on the stand? >> i think on balance it was bad for the trump family, but i will caveat that saying we expect three of the four trumps to come back, right. don and eric will be witnesses in their father's case in chief. i expect that the former president will be back. the reason is cross-examination, willie, is also limited to the scope of what the direct examination is. you can't go beyond that for the most part. that means his lawyers want to elicit testimony from all three of those male trumps that goes beyond what the attorney general was interested in and so they will bring them back to afford them, as chris kice complained, the latitude they think the former president and maybe future president as kice reminded the judge should be afforded to explain himself and what it was that he was doing without intent. >> coming up, the former prime minister of israel is standing by. he wrapped up high-level meetings on capitol hill and at the white house with the national security team. he weighs in on israel's war against hamas and impacts across the region when "morning joe" comes right back. sarah escheric, i'm the life enrichment director at independence village, the senior living community in waukee, iowa. everybody here really, really make you feel like family and that they love you. our goal with tiktok was to enrich the lives of our residents and just to be able to show people what senior living can be like. i think i am a tiktok grandma. my kids think i am. i mean, we're the ones that are being entertained. time goes faster when you're having fun. rsv is out there. for those 60 years and older protect against rsv with arexvy. arexvy is a vaccine used to prevent lower respiratory disease from rsv in people 60 years and older. arexvy does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients. those with weakened immune systems may have a lower response to the vaccine. the most common side effects are injection site pain, fatigue, muscle pain, headache, and joint pain. i chose arexvy. rsv? 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>> it is easy to roll out a talking point like, yeah, let's bomb tehran, the capital of iran. okay. what happens next? what do we do if there is a massive response? what do we do if 150,000 missiles go from lebanon to strike tel aviv? you need to think through next steps. so my take would be, yeah, we need to be strong, we need to move forces and, as we say in the military, set the table for heavy-duty combat, two carrier strike groups, squadrons of the strike eagles you just saw, 2,000 marines on uss baton. believe me, lloyd austin has all of the force he needs there. tehran knows let's work up the ladder of vertical escalation. let's go for the nose punches first before we try rolling into downtown tehran. that's very dangerous, very high risk. you better have a follow-on plan. you didn't hear any of that last night. >> admiral, what is the appropriate response? we had a couple of f-15s go in and take out this weapons storage facility in eastern syria, to 41 attacks on american troops, on bases in iraq and syria. >> yeah. >> drones, they say the damage was very limited, some of our service men and women reporting some tbi and things like that. what is an appropriate response to those attacks? >> i think what you just saw is appropriate for the moment. what then can come is, for example, a massive cyberattack taking out the iranian economic infrastructure. you could go after maritime platforms in the arabian gulf where iran generates oil and gas revenues. you could go after iranian port facilities. you could go after their ships at sea. you have a long way to go on that ladder of vertical escalation, willie, before you are talking about bombing downtown tehran coming up, north carolina could be the next big battleground for abortion rights in america. the state's attorney general, josh stein, explains why straight ahead on "morning joe." right now get a free footlong at subway. like the new deli heroes. buy one footlong in the app, get one free. it's a pretty big deal. kinda like me. order in the subway app today. ♪♪ with fastsigns, create custom graphics that get tails and tongues wagging. ♪♪ fastsigns. make your statement. here in the bay, our cars takes and all of our stuff where we want to go. but, our cars can't take us e with unpaid tolls. vehicles with overdue, unpaid tolls may not be able to renew their registration until outstanding balances are paid. payment assistance is available. visit bayareafastrak.org/ase so go pay your unpaid tolls y and keep your wheels on the ! ♪ ♪ 46 past the hour. welcome back to "morning joe." a live look at chicago for you this morning. president biden today will visit illinois, the place where united auto workers workers scored a big win with their new account. the president is set to meet with uaw president shawn fain and union workers to highlight a recent agreement between the the union and the automakers. tell us first of all what we can expect with the visit but also how did democrats and biden capitalize on tuesday's big win? >> well, today is going to be an exciting day. we have, you know, the workers of belevedere will be there, the people. this is due to the work not only of the uaw but the president of the united states, bringing back american manufacturing and especially standing up for workers. this is the most pro worker president we've had really in my lifetime, and the result of his work is that we're going to see thousands more jobs in belvedere, a new battery plant and refurbished ev assembly plant and the workers there are just thrilled. workers have a friend in joebtd. >> what is it you feel they need to do to gain more ground in terms of democrats and perhaps moderate republicans supporting joe biden in a full-throated way? because you see all of these tepid responses, and that's putting it kindly, in polls like the recent new york times poll. >> we haven't seen the real contrast of the republican nominee against our current president. fact is that once we have that contrast, one against the other, the agenda of joe biden, which was affirmed in spades all over the country on tuesday night, reflects the views of the american people, and we are going to see that when they vote november of 2024. we are a year out. you know, we see polls. i know sometimes people bed wet about polls this early and, you know, can joe biden really win. the fact of the matter is the contrast of the two agendas when put in front of the american people, joe biden's agenda wins. >> jonathan lemire. >> governor, good to see you this morning. there have been times over the recent weeks where you have been critical of the white house and its handling of the migrant situation. a number of big cities across the united states, and that includes chicago there in your state, can you give us an update as to where things stand? how responsive has the administration been? >> well, as you know, i sent the administration a letter. that was after many meetings over the course of months, because i wanted to make clear publicly and directly to the white house what we needed. i had a number of points in that letter, and they've been responsive on each one of those points. i would like more. we need more support, by the way, for the migrants who are showing up in chicago. these are folks who need wrap-around services, health care, shelter and so on. we are doing the best we can with the resources we have. but as you know, the problems at the border are longstanding and they're really a federal problem. so we are doing the best we can at the local level. we need more help from the biden administration. they have provided some real help. in fact, we have a new pilot program that's going on that's helping people to get tps and work authorizations. we have so many jobs available for people if we could just get more workers, and these are workers that can get to work immediately. so we've got them helping us to move these folks through the federal process and get them authorizations. that's one big thing we are getting from the white house. but in addition to that, you know, we have seen that the white house is trying to get something through congress that would help the cities that are most affected. remember, these are border politicians sending us these migrants, and it is really they who are trying to cause a political problem. the reality is that democrats believe in the humanitarian response to this crisis. >> democratic governor j.b. pritzker of illinois, thank you very much. we will be watching today and sticking with the prairie state, joining us now, senate majority whip dick durbin of illinois. he is chad campbell of the judiciary committee. it is good to have you on this morning. we have a lot to talk with you about. first of all, what is your takeaway from tuesday's big win for democrats and how can they build momentum on it? >> well, i think it is good news for democrats because off-year elections traditionally go the traditionally go the other way. after the good results of two years ago we were expecting the worst, many of us were. and the results were encouraging. to reelect andy beshear in kentucky, to see the state of virginia shift control to the democrats at the legislative level, the ohio vote on a woman's right to choose, all of these things make a difference in our evaluation of the coming election. >> yeah. on the issue of abortion, there are a number of issues where it feels like republicans are not on the same side as where most americans are. what are some other issues where you think democrats really can gain ground if they fight hard in the months to come? >> we look at the last election and a woman's right to choose was a major issue as was the question about the legitimacy of government. people, unfortunately, on the republican side still cling to the belief that joe biden wasn't really elected president, the election denial. that madness needs to come to an end. if our democracy is going to survive and prosper, we have to have credible election results accepted by both sides. until the trump era, that was the case. for younger voters, one of the issues is the environment. i couldn't agree with them more. we need to make sure the next generation has a fighting chance to have a planet they can live on. >> the senate judiciary committee is set to vote to authorize subpoenas in that supreme court ethics probe. give us a sense as to why we are at this step and what do you think it can yield. >> we've tried literally for months to secure additional information after the press disclosures of the lavish gifts given to some supreme court justices. i sent a letter to the chief justice signed by a number of other senators 11 years ago saying you need a code of ethics. how can you explain that in the entire federal government everyone is bound by a code of ethics except for the nine people on the supreme court? elena kagan put her finger on it. this is a court and a constitution of a democracy, it is not royalty. people who want to be treated royally or live royally have no business in public service. we have disclosures of lavish gifts given to some of these supreme court justices in a way that can't be defended. the fact is most of those were not even disclosed. whether you're appointed by a republican or a democrat, everyone on the supreme court should be bound by the said code of ethics as the other federal judges across america. >> a few days ago you became the first democratic senator, i believe, to call for a ceasefire in the israel/gaza situation in the war against hamas. the biden administration has been pretty firm that they're not calling for a ceasefire. they just want a few brief pauses to get humanitarian aid in and injured civilians out. why do you think a ceasefire is necessary, and are you frustrated that the administration and the israeli government aren't listening? >> since i made that suggestion that we have a ceasefire mutually agreed on by both sides so long as hamas releases the hostages they have taken prison, that same proposal was endorsed by benjamin netanyahu. it's not a radical idea. i'm in contact with the head of a hospital in northern gaza. it is outrageous what they're going through. they're out of medicine completely. they're performing amputations on children without anesthesia. the only pain medication they have is tylenol. we need a pause to at least assess that kind of humanitarian assistance. >> senator durbin, you also recently called out what you call their much needed funding for aids relief, helping save more than 25 million lives world wide with efforts in 50 countries around the world. the house gop is threatening to halt the reauthorization of the u.s. president's emergency plan for aids relief. the reason you say house republicans are lying, falsely arguing that the program funds abortions abroad. does it? >> not a single penny can be spent on abortions. let me go to the bottom line here. george w. bush and i didn't agree on many things, but i not only agree with him in his creation of pepfar, i think it is one of the highlights of his presidency. in the midst of an aids epidemic, george w. bush created this program which has saved millions of lives across the world. this defines america. this strategy coming out of house republicans is just plain cruel. there are people who are going to die because of this political debate going on in their ranks. >> senator dick durbin of illinois, thank you very much. i want to talk more about this with dr. dave campbell. he's recently reported extensively on pepfar, its impact and the threat of funding cuts. what are we dealing with right now globally when it comes to hiv infections? is there a resurgence? >> it's a substantial threat but it's dramatically better now than it was 20 years ago when president bush implemented pepfar. since 2010, it's down about 38% new infection rate, which is what then leads to decreasing death rates, because the anti-retroviral therapy, which a year's worth of therapy is about $47 per year. back when this program started, it was $10,000. so the costs have come down, the dramatic decrease in skyrocketing hiv rates and death rates, we're seeing the benefit. that will change if pepfar is changed in some form or fashion. >> and children are impacted. how many children globally are receiving treatment right now? >> just over half a million kids who could receive treatmentand are now. they're estimating that's about 84,000 deaths a year. the discussions back and forth about reasons to modify pepfar in a way that are principled arguments can be had. but the kids and the pregnant mothers who will transmit hiv to their newborns, they don't care about these arguments. they would prefer to be able to live through this horrible disease. >> what's at stake? this is a program put forward by a republican president. what will happen if pepfar is not reauthorized? >> last year, there were a million new hiv infections even with pepfar. what we will see is a resurgence of those numbers of new hiv infections and then the trailing indicator of deaths from aids. that will happen. >> dr. dave campbell, that you were. up next, chris matthews will be our guest. we'll get his take on last night's republican presidential debate in miami and donald trump's counter rally just a few miles away. plus a live report from israel, where negotiations are under way to get hamas to release more hostages. we're back in two minutes with a packed 9:00 a.m. hour. n two mina packed 9:00 a.m. hour. fs of treating? or push through the pain and symptoms? with ubrelvy, there's another option. one dose works fast to eliminate migraine pain treat it anytime, anywhere. without worrying where you are or if it's too late. do not take with strong cyp3a4 inhibitors. allergic reactions to ubrelvy can happen. most common side effects were nausea and sleepiness. migraine pain relief starts with u. ask about ubrelvy. learn how abbvie could help you save. we pay more for prescription drugs than any major nation on earth. but big pharma has been unfairly charging families. and they've been making record profits. not anymore. as president, joe biden's taken on powerful interests on behalf of the american people. for decades, politicians tried to lower prescription drug costs. but joe biden finally got it done. giving medicare the power to negotiate for lower drug prices, capping insulin at $35 a month, and capping out-of-pocket drug costs for seniors at $2,000 a year. joe biden's lowering costs for millions of americans. and he's paying for it by making the biggest corporations in america finally pay their fair share in taxes. no billionaire should be paying a lower tax rate than a schoolteacher or firefighter. here's my message to all of you out there. your president has your back. i'm joe biden and i approve this message. when he is convicted of a crime, his support collapses, especially in all those swing states that he was doing well in. but after a conviction, he will lose every one of those states to joe biden. >> that was republican presidential candidate chris christie earlier on "morning joe" predicting voters will ditch donald trump after a conviction in the federal election interference case. welcome to the fourth hour of "morning joe." it's 6:00 a.m. on the west coast, 9:00 a.m. in the east. last night in miami the five candidates sparring on a number of issues from abortion access to foreign policy, but they didn't go after donald trump at all. tom llamas has the details. >> reporter: five republican presidential candidates facing off in a contentious and sometimes personal political debate. >> she doesn't answer the question. >> reporter: battling for attention in the republican party with former president trump the clear frontrunner who was holding a rally in the same county. >> he owes it to you to be on this stage. >> reporter: the candidates were pressed on foreign policy and how they would address the israel/hamas war with israel's prime minister. >> i would tell bibi finish the job once and for all. >> i said finish them, finish them. >> reporter: personal clashes took center stage, particularly between vivek ramaswamy and nikki haley. >> in the last debate she made fun of me for joining tiktok. her own daughter was using the app for a long time. >> leave my daughter out of your voice. >> here's the truth -- >> you're scum. >> reporter: ramaswamy accusing haley of profiting off her old job as u.n. ambassador. >> do you want a leader from a different generation that's going to put this country first, or do you want dick cheney in 3-inch heels? >> they're 5-inch heels. >> do you think that was sexist? >> i don't even give him the time of day. he has proven he is not worthy of being united states. >> reporter: florida governor ron desantis is hoping for a boost, though he trails the former president significantly. desantis blaming trump for the gop's poor performance in state elections on tuesday. >> he said republicans were going to get tired of winning. i'm sick of republicans losing. >> reporter: the candidates sparring over the abortion issue, that helped power to democrats to victories this week. >> i would as president of the united states have a 15-week national limit. >> no republican president can ban abortions any more than a democrat president can ban these state laws. >> this is an issue that should be decided in each state. >> joining us now, chris matthews. jonathan lemire is still with us as well. chris, can't any of them except for chris christie, who does a pretty good job, say donald trump would be a terrible president if reelected? we've already seen the damage he has created for this country. this is a guy who is against america, against fair elections, against the constitution, against national security. this is a guy who likes autocrats. why can't they just say it? >> the republican party is baked in for donald trump. you can hear it from everybody. my friends are all for him. it's a group thing. >> but he keeps losing? >> i know. at least ron desantis said last night we're losing. it took a long time to get to abortion last night. the one thing about abortion, it's brought home to me what joe biden has been trying to say now for months. democracy matters. it doesn't just matter theoretically from the times of our founding fathers, it matters today, because today you can vote against an abortion ban. you can say in ohio or any state, we're not going to allow this. we're not going to let the president pack the supreme court with three of his people. we're not going to let them punish women. voters said, no, mr. president, we are voters and we're having an election and we're voting against you guys, you're wrong. i think that's the power of democracy. voters matter even if it's only 70,000 voters difference. it matters who wins the election. this tuesday down in kentucky and in virginia, it matters. i'd like to think when people vote in 2024, they're going to use their vote to matter the way they think about issues. i thought your debate with chris christie this morning was very interesting. i understand you a little bit, mika. i will just dare to translate what you were saying. don't tell me about women who want to have abortions at nine months. there's no such person. our kathy had michael three weeks late. of course you know three weeks late it's a question of a c-section, not abortion. you talk about how to deliver the baby safely, your wonderful first born. anybody who's faced that decision, they don't think about abortion. think they about a live birth. >> it's nuts. >> he kept going back to the stupid argument, yeah, but it's legal. but you're talking about women. a woman choosing the ninth month, who is this person? >> there is no person. also insulting our intelligence at a time when our health care is at risk, when you have women who have, because of the overturning of roe, been told they need to go to the parking lot and bleed out until they're sick enough to get care or until a hospital board can decide if they can get the d&c or whatever abortion treatment they need. they're acting like it's some woman who slept around and didn't feel like having a child. what year is this? do they really think americans are that stupid? i think in the midterms we have seen over the past four to six years, i think we've found they're not stupid and in fact they want a woman to have a right to choose. we don't really like insurrections. we don't think that's a good thing. oh another thing we've discovered in these midterms, we like our democracy, we really do. we respect it and we don't agree with election denying. we are learning things from midterm elections except the republicans. what universe are they on and how do we bring this country back together where we are operating on the same facts? or do we just watch them continue to lose or try and steal or cheat or use disinformation to move forward? >> i thought it was interesting last night in the closing hours of the debate when they talked about abortion, i thought it was interesting how nikki haley, who i do like as a candidate because she's got some spark, she came out and said, you know, if you disagree with me on this, i won't disagree with you on your pro choice position. she was basically saying let's not debate this issue. that may be the one successful attempt republicans have on this. okay, we're going to give you this one. the voters are proving it and they're going to do it again and again in 2024, so we're not going to get in their way. this morning, pepfar, i was in the peace corps in africa. if they don't get that pepfar thing continued, a lot of human beings are going to die because of hiv. it's a real problem over there. they don't really fully understand the situation, what causes it or how it's transferred and all. they haven't fully come to grips with that because of some of their leaders. they need that help. george w. bush, the one great thing he did in his life was he really tried to help the people of africa, of east africa especially. tony fauci helped him do it. it was a great thing he did. now they're trying to take away the one lasting legacy of george w. bush, which was saving african lives. >> let's switch back to politics now. the back-to-back nights, we had elections one night and this republican debate last night with trump up the road. beyond the clear sign that abortion is going to be front and center next year, what other things did you glean from these couple of days that might offer a preview of the presidential election? >> this is a real issue. it's how we grew up as people. if you grow up jewish, of course, you have a particular interest in israel and its survival. and this looked like an attack on the jewish people. they're trying to begin the destruction of israel. this wasn't just some attack like the '73 war. it was an attack on the people of israel, destroying them, butchering them. i get the feeling that benjamin netanyahu has the bit in his teeth and he's going to make the war his issue to save him politically. i think the other side is youth, and the youth on our campuses are out there for the palestinians because they see they have got the raw end of the deal. they didn't get a two-state solution, they didn't get east jerusalem. they didn't get enough of the west bank. it's a swiss cheese state now with highways running through it and israels running over them. they're not being offered a choice, so their choice this time was butchery. it's a hot issue in america among young people. they do see two sides to this thing. i think last night everybody was pro israeli. that makes sense politically because they are definitely the right wing party and they would agree with benjamin netanyahu personally. i think they all took one side. i don't think it's a one side issue entirely. i think israel is right to get even and to get back to what they lost in terms of integrity, but i do think people look as this as a two-sided question. the ultimate answer is bibi has to go and we have to have a two-state solution. tom friedman, who i believe in religiously and i read him in the times, he says if you don't give these arab people an alternative to this violence, they're going to choose violence. it's been proven. i'm for a two-state solution. >> let's bring into the conversation white house press secretary careen john pierre. tell me about the administration's approach to israel and prime minister netanyahu specifically. a lot of people are less than trusting of his leadership right now. how does the president plan to navigate that moving forward? and are there conversations that are tougher behind the scenes? >> as you know, the president has had a very long relationship with the prime minister. they've known each other for decades now. they have a very straightforward relationship. you've seen the president have multiple conversations with the prime minister. you saw the president visit a war zone in israel not too long ago. not going to get into that, but the president believes in being honest and straightforward here. he has been clear in saying that israel has the right to defend itself. we will stand with them as they do that. october 7th was a horrific day. we saw 1400 souls be slaughtered. but we've also been very clear that they have to follow the rule of law. so that we're making tremendously clear with not just the prime minister, but also our counterparts in israel. obviously humanitarian aid is incredibly important. we mourn every life, every innocent civilian life lost, we certainly mourn that and we want to make sure we get that humanitarian aid. we've talked about having the humanitarian pauses, which is critical not just to getting that humanitarian aid in but also getting hostages out and people who want to leave gaza have the ability to do this. we've been very clear. we're going to continue to be steadfast on this. >> as you compete with a leaf blower behind you. >> i apologize. active white house this morning. >> i'm thinking monday morning your phone is exploding with texts from people freaking out about the "new york times" polls, and then cut to wednesday morning, your phone is probably exploding with texts with people very excited about the results of tuesday night elections. how does the biden white house plan to position itself moving forward in light of tuesday's results? >> we've been very clear. we have said it's not about the polls. it's about the people. we believe the american people. what you saw from tuesday night is very clear. the american people spoke loudly and pretty consistently about this. they did in 2020 and 2022. they said this past tuesday that the president's values and agenda are incredibly popular across the country. if you think about the specific issues, i heard the back and forth you were having with one of your guests today about abortion and where republicans are on this, look, the american people have been very clear, they do not want politics to be involved in their health care. if you think also about ohio, you think about issue one. issue one was the seventh ballot in seven states that focus on reproductive rights. what did the american people say in those seven states? they rejected the dangerous proposals that republicans put forward. let's not forget, it puts the lives of women at risk. it puts the health care for women at risk. we've been very clear. we are going to stand with the majority of americans on this, which is making sure we call on congress to restore roe v wade. this is not acceptable. this is not what the american people want to see. this is the direction that republicans are taking us down. this is the direction of taking away people's freedoms, taking away the rights of women to make a decision on their health care. >> your phone's probably going to be blowing up next week because the government may be on the verge of a shutdown in about ten days. give us the white house's perspective right now on what you're hearing from the new house speaker. do you think he is someone with whom you could make a deal? >> i'll say this. republicans in the house took basically three weeks and shut down congress in the sense of they were so busy trying to figure out who their speaker was going to be that they didn't focus on the people's business. now they want to take us down a path where they want to shut down the government. as you know, a deal was made earlier in the summer and late spring. a deal is a deal. 2/3 of those house republicans voted for this deal. this is their responsibility. they need to keep the government open. there are critical programs that the american people need, whether veterans' program, food and security programs. these are incredibly important. they have to do their jobs. they can't spend three weeks trying to figure out who the speaker is and then shut down the government. one of their main jobs to do is to keep the government open and make sure those vital programs are funded. >> careen jean pierre, good to see you. coming on "morning joe," we go live to tel aviv for the latest on the negotiations to free more hostages from hamas, including what israel's president is saying this morning about the status of talks with the terrorist group. plus, former israeli prime minister 1/2 tally bennett joins the conversation. tt joins the conversation . i need indeed. indeed you do. indeed instant match instantly delivers quality candidates matching your job description. visit indeed.com/hire right now get a free footlong at subway. like the new deli heroes. buy one footlong in the app, get one free. it's a pretty big deal. kinda like me. order in the subway app today. my active psoriatic arthritis can make me feel like i'm losing my rhythm. with skyrizi to treat my skin and joints, i'm getting into my groove. ♪(uplifting music)♪ along with significantly clearer skin... skyrizi helps me move with less joint pain, stiffness, swelling, and fatigue. and is just 4 doses a year, after 2 starter doses. skyrizi attaches to and reduces a source of excess inflammation that can lead to skin and joint symptoms. with skyrizi 90% clearer skin and less joint pain are possible. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine, or plan to. thanks to skyrizi, there's nothing like clearer skin and better movement... and that means everything. ♪nothing is everything♪ now's the time to ask your doctor about skyrizi. learn how abbvie could help you save. i'm sarah escherich, i'm the life enrichment director at independence village, the senior living community in waukee, iowa. everybody here really, really make you feel like family and that they love you. our goal with tiktok was to enrich the lives of our residents and just to be able to show people what senior living can be like. i think i am a tiktok grandma. my kids think i am. i mean, we're the ones that are being entertained. time goes faster when you're having fun. the first time you made a sale online with godaddy was also the first time you heard of a town named dinosaur, colorado. we just got an order from dinosaur, colorado. start an easy to build, powerful website for free with a partner that always puts you first. start for free at godaddy.com with cirkul, your water is deliciously flavored at the turn of a dial, with zero sugar and zero calories. and cirkul has over 40 flavors, so your water can be as unique as you are. try cirkul. your water, your way. now with even more flavors. available at walmart or drinkcirkul.co welcome back. the u.s. is discussing a proposal for a pause in fighting in gaza with israel and qatar. it would include up to three days and would allow for the possible delivery of more humanitarian aid and the release of some hostages held by hamas according to two foreign diplomats and a u.s. official. joining us now from tel aviv raf sanchez. you sat down with the president of israel earlier today. what did he tell you? >> reporter: we sat down with israeli president isaac hertzog shortly after he received israel's latest intelligence on the hostages. he told us despite weeks of backchannel negotiations, at this stage israel has still received no substantial offer from hamas that could lead to the release of the hostages. >> what we say to them right now, up to now there's no real proposal that is viable from hamas's side on this issue, whereas there are many, many people third parties sending optimistic messages to the newsreels. i'm saying outright, according to my knowledge up to now, there's no real substantial information that is showing any real process on the table. that is unfortunate. we are working both on the military fund and all other fronts to bring them back home. >> reporter: he said thousands of israeli officials, soldiers, spies are working round-the-clock to try to bring those 240 or so hostages home. he also said there would be no ceasefire, short or long, without the release of the hostages. that is a point of disagreement between the united states and israel that is growing more public. the israeli president had spoken to vice president kamala harris about humanitarian pauses. the u.s. has said they want to see brief pauses to get aid into gaza. president herzog is sticking to the israeli government line which is there will be no ceasefires without the release of the hostages. i also pressed him on the growing number of palestinian civilians killed by israeli air strikes inside gaza. he said israel is doing everything it can to minimize civilian casualties. he said this is ultimately on hamas, that their leadership are hiding in tunnels under residential areas. but israel is facing growing calls for a ceasefire. overnight the secretary general of the united nations saying something must be going wrong with israel's military operations to see civilian casualties at this level. >> raf sanchez live from tel aviv. thank you for that report. we will ask that question to former prime minister of israel naftali bennett, who has served as chief of staff for benjamin netanyahu. i'm curious what the framework would be, in your opinion, how a pause in exchange for hostages, humanitarian aid getting in, how a pause could work? >> i think a pause would be a tremendous mistake and wrong, because we're in a fight to eliminate hamas. we cannot have hamas exist. we're also in a fight to release the hostages. right now hamas is taking big hits. it's on the floor. now after they murdered and raped 1400 israelis, suddenly they want a humanitarian pause. we should not allow them to refresh, to rearm so they can continue this war on and on. we have to win. >> okay. so what are the other options? >> that's the option. victory. >> that's it? so just continuing with an offensive. let me ask you this -- >> i just want to give you an analogy. if you asked me in january of 1945, what are the options of the allies, a pause? no. total victory to eliminate hamas because hamas is not part of a conflict or some complex situation. hamas wanted to destroy israel, full stop, period. we have no choice. you would do exactly the same thing. we have to eliminate hamas. >> let me ask you, do you think prime minister benjamin netanyahu is the man for this moment? there are many concerned that he's losing the faith of the people, that he was distracted, that he put the wrong people around him and that he won't address how israel's security was so impaired that this could happen? as a former prime minister yourself, do you have that question? and do you think the answer to that question is imperative for his leadership to continue? >> i'm sitting here representing israel, the israeli people. i won't criticize my government or the prime minister. we're at war. israel is united. whatever internal domestic debates we have, we'll deal with them in israel, but not on international press. >> mr. prime minister, good morning. we're hoping you could address what's been an outburst of violence in the west bank, some of the settlers involved. there's been a real international outcry that could inflame the situation further. can you speak about what is happening there and what should be happening there, in your estimation? >> in the west bank, we're seeing significant number of attacks from the palestinian terrorists, including hamas trying to kill israelis. what we're trying to do is calm things down there so we can focus on the gaza strip. we've got a war to win. we have 240 hostages that are still being held captive. that's my real focus. >> in the west bank, some of the violence, though, seems to be originated by some of the settlers there, the israeli residents. what is your message to them? >> my message is that we need to ensure that no lawless violence happens on any side and we have to hit the terrorists. but right now we are at full war to bring out 240 of our boys and girls and babies. we have babies still in custody of hamas. they just kidnapped babies, including babies that they already killed their parents. you have a 4-year-old whose parents were murdered in front of her eyes, and she's alone in gaza. that's the only thing i care about now. >> former israeli prime minister naftali bennett, thank you very much. i want to bring chris matthews back into this conversation, having worked in white houses in the past. we've been following obviously the plight of israel for decades. can you speak a little bit to the position that president biden is in right now? you hear how resolute even this former israeli prime minister is, and yet there are a couple of different realities happening at the same time. how to navigate? >> well, it's hard, because if you look at what's happening at the university of pennsylvania and other ivy league schools where you have palestinians running rampant and sounding like the only message from those universities, including the president's office. there's a big difference between what's happening in the middle east right now and the end of germany in world war ii and the end of japan in world war ii. when hitler was killed, the war was over. there was no more japanese people trying to fight us. there were no more people who wanted to get us. the germans wanted to join the west. that's what happened. in the mideast, the cause of the palestinians is different than hamas and it's bigger. if israel wins this war, if they find everybody with a trigger finger shooting missiles or anything at israel, if they get rid of all those people and find every intelligence route they get to and kill all those people, if they do all that, there will still be a palestinian cause. the palestinians are equal number to israels. you have to give them a home or they have no place to go. that's the situation. it's not like ve day or vj day. those analogies are ridiculous. where are the palestinian people going to go? as long as you have settlers piling into the west bank, it's not going to happen. as long as benjamin netanyahu continues to support those settlements, it's not going to happen. as long as he has a block in his heart that includes the settler community, it's not going to happen. we want a two-state solution. historically all our presidents have wanted one, including biden. he wants one, but i don't think he can tell the prime minister of israel right now that you've got to have a statement for that. if you don't give the palestinians hope, they're going to still look to hamas. >> and the problem is given what happened on october 7th, you never want to communicate that there shouldn't be a response to that. it's incredibly complicated. chris matthews, thank you very much for being on this morning. coming up, we're following the latest deal out of hollywood. sag-aftra have finally reached a tentative agreement with tv and movie studios after nearly four months of strike. what this means for the entertainment industry. r the entertainment industry liberty mutual customized my car insurance and i saved hundreds. with the money i saved, i started a dog walking business. oh. [dog barks] no it's just a bunny! only pay for what you need. ♪liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty.♪ i have moderate to severe crohn's disease. now, there's skyrizi. ♪ things are looking up, i've got symptom relief. ♪ ♪ control of my crohn's means everything to me. ♪ ♪ control is everything to me. ♪ feel significant symptom relief at 4 weeks with skyrizi, including less abdominal pain and fewer bowel movements. skyrizi is the first il-23 inhibitor that can deliver remission and visibly improve damage of the intestinal lining. and the majority of people experienced long-lasting remission at one year. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine or plan to. liver problems may occur in crohn's disease. ♪ now's the time to ask your gastroenterologist how you can take control of your crohn's with skyrizi. ♪ ♪ control is everything to me. ♪ ♪ learn how abbvie could help you save. live look at los angeles for you this morning. wow. it's a beautiful day at 37 past the hour, 6:37 a.m. on the west coast. hollywood is finally poised to get back to work soon. overnight the actors union, sag-aftra voted unanimously on a tentative agreement with the group representing studios and streamers. >> reporter: this morning hollywood actors can finally get back to work after an unprecedented 118 days on the predict lines. the actors union announcing late wednesday that it approved a tentative agreement with the amptv which represents studios and streamers including nbc news' parent company comcast. >> the strike is over. >> amazing. >> reporter: other actors taking to social media to share their excitement, including octavia spencer who posted, who else is dancing right now? and actor kate walsh who wrote, i'm in teary awe. they fought with all they had. >> this deal comes in at a little bit more than a billion dollars over the term of the agreement. >> reporter: the amptv says this deal represents a new paradigm, including the largest increase in minimum wages in 40 years. a new residual compensation structure for streaming programs and extensive consent in compensation protections in the use of artificial intelligence. this announcement comes after months of meetings between the union and studios. fran drescher, the president of sag-aftra, reflecting on the tense negotiations in an interview with nbc news last month. >> it's being driven by people and people that are driven by greed. >> reporter: the fallout from the longest actors strike in history has been far reaching, the work stoppage not only hurting actors, but industries like transportation and craft services. the halt in productions has cost california's economy billions of doll dollars. after more than 13 weeks, the hollywood ending so many have been hoping for. still ahead on "morning joe," north carolina's republican-led legislature made national headlines this year for an abortion ban at 12 weeks, overriding a veto from the state's governor. we'll discuss the fight over reproductive rights and women's health care with the state's democratic attorney general. health care with the state's democratic attorney general. for moderate to severe crohn's disease skyrizi is the first il-23 inhibitor that can deliver remission and visibly improve damage of the intestinal lining. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine or plan to. liver problems may occur in crohn's disease. control of crohn's means everything to me. ask your gastroenterologist about skyrizi. ♪ control is everything to me ♪ learn how abbvie could help you save. liberty mutual customized my car insurance and i saved hundreds. with the money i saved, i started a dog walking business. oh. [dog barks] no it's just a bunny! only pay for what you need. ♪liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty.♪ after overwhelming wins for abortion access in elections across the country on tuesday, north carolina is shaping to be the next big battleground for reproductive rights and women's health care. last may, the republican supermajority in the state legislature passed a 12-week ban. governor cooper is term limited. the frontrunner in the race lieutenant governor mark robinson said if he becomes governor, he would ban abortion in the state for any reason with no exceptions. joining us now attorney general of north carolina josh stein. he's also democratic candidate for governor. thank you for joining us. your potential opponent there, how's that going to work out for north carolina? >> well, if he were to win, it was work out disastrously, because he has made clear, just as you quoted, that if he were governor, he would want to ban abortion with no exceptions, not for rape, not for incest, not for the life or health of the mother. that is absolutely backwards. i am running for governor because i believe that women should make these decisions, not politicians. >> so how do you feel the people of north carolina stand on this issue? i have republican presidential candidates telling me america is so divided on the issue of abortion. again, i'd really like to add the words women's health care to abortion, because as we've found, abortion can often save the life of a mother who has fetal abnormalities or is bleeding out. abortions are used in many different ways to preserve the health care of a woman. where do you think the north carolina electorate stands on this? is it massively divided? >> i think there are definitely people who in their own lives are against abortion, they are pro life. there are other women obviously who are pro choice. what i believe the vast majority of north carolinians come down on this issue, is they recognize this is about the most personal decision a woman could ever have to make. because it is so intensely personal and there are so many factors that go into it, that is a decision that should be left up to that woman. it should not be made by a bunch of politicians in raleigh. that's where i think most of the voters are, and i'm confident they're going to embrace our vision of reproductive freedom. >> governor beshear was just reelected in kentucky this week. he did so without getting a single campaign appearance from president biden. his staff suggested they'd be better off without the president there. as you run for governor of your state, would you welcome visits from president biden? >> president biden has done such a great job jumpstartstarting t economy. unemployment is at record lows in north carolina. we're seeing inflation come down because of the inflation reduction act. we have a massive semiconductor chip company being built in chatham county, not far from where i am today. toyota just announced 12 or $13 billion of investment in an ev battery plant here in north carolina. we have so much happening, broadband expansion across the state of north carolina. the president has been instrumental in a lot of those successes. of course, i'm running to be governor of north carolina and i'm going to talk to the people of north carolina about how as governor can achieve whatever it is they want for their lives. their kids can get a great education and get a good job or go to college, whatever they want to do, and they can get good health care no matter where they live or how much money they earn. of course, we want people to be able to choose what to do with their own bodies, fair own families and futures about making reproductive health care decisions for themselves. >> attorney general of north carolina josh stein, thank you very much for coming on the show this morning. reproductive rights, women's rights, women's health is going to be a cornerstone for democrats ahead of the 2024 presidential race. that's what we learned on tuesday. for more on that, let's bring in huma abedin, long time aide to secretary of state hillary clinton. also with us maggie mcgrath, editor of forbes women. huma, what do you think the results on tuesday meant for women's health in general and reproductive rights? we really saw the republican candidates grappling with party's position on abortion last night at the debate. there was a lot of word salad. is this a liability for these republican candidates? >> mika, i think you know that when you said it's going to be the corner stone of the subject that women and americans should be talking about, candidates and advocates should be talking about going into a presidential year, we've learned in recent history that women voters decide our general election, and i think not only does it reaffirm, but it gives a clear road map to both activists and candidates talking about keeping this issue on the forefront. when i'm curious about after seeing what happened in ohio, kentucky, and virginia, is there are 12 states looking to put abortion on the ballot going into 2024, three of those states include nevada, arizona, and pennsylvania. key battleground states, states that, you know, president biden, that "new york times" sienna poll this weekend showed that he actually was losing to donald trump in, and so when you look at what's happening in our country, just think what you've been covering all morning. we are so divided on so many things. there's such a big unknown that this is something we know. we have two wars, we're fighting abroad. people are confused about the economy. americans whether you live in a red state, a blue state or a purple state agree that women should have the ability to make their own reproductive health choices, and we need to keep reminding people. as it relates to republicans, we saw last night it's like word salad. they're confused. we're going to try a 12-week ban, a 15-week banks nothing is working, nothing is sticking. it is incumbent upon democrats to not let people forget that issue of abortion going into 2024. >> before i jump to maggie, houma, the other thing i think that's playing here a big role is donald trump brags that he was the guy who got roe overturned, and so republicans are carrying that around, and i think america's in a different place about having roe overturned and rights taken away that we've known for 50 years. >> exactly right. i mean, you know, every election, every time this issue has gone since the overturning of roe, it has been consistent. there hadn't been uncertain wins. people are siding with -- with the ability for women to choose, and i think actually, mika, it's something democrats, every candidate needs to remind people every time they go on tv saying he did this to women, and that is how we're going to keep women engaged. >> absolutely. and maggie, overall, women fared well in this week's election on tuesday night. what are some of the story lines that you and the team at forbes women are watching specifically? >> we have a story out today by aaron spencer sigh rum on the first that we saw on tuesday night in philadelphia, cherelle parker became the 100th mayor of philadelphia, but the first ever woman to hold the role. her victory was not necessarily a surprise. she was the democratic candidate, and philly hasn't elected a republican mayor since about 1952, but it is significant. in her victory speech she talked about being born to a teen mom, raised by her grandparents, and she said that her story is a case study in turning pain into power. so the representation there is so, so poignant and powerful. elsewhere in philadelphia, ru landow will become the first openly lgbtq member of the council. the first south asian city council member and in wichita, lily wu will become the first asian american mayor of wichita. i want to zoom out and talk about why all of this is important. according to the center for american women in politics, women represented just a quarter of all mayors and of towns and cities of more than 30,000 people as of september, so with each victor we see for women, we see government get a little more representative of the population. >> wow. and while i have you both here, i also want to switch gears and talk about -- it's not necessarily switching gears because this is ultimately -- it impacts all of us and politics, but this is about a know your value issue. women and negotiation. new research is showing that women are now more likely than men to ask their employers for more money, but they still end up making less. this goes against the widespread belief that women tend to shy away from negotiating higher salaries for themselves, which contributes to the overall gender pay gap. maggie, what is going on? tell us about the surprising reversal when it comes to men and women and how they negotiate and what they actually get. >> so this study is a little bit of a good news, bad news situation. the good news is this. the researchers found that over the past two decades, women have been bargaining more to the point that now women outpace men in when they ask for higher salaries, higher compensation. and the other piece of good news here is that the researchers credit conversations like the one that you need about the importance of asking for more and knowing your value. they say that the increased awareness of this issue is what is leading women to ask for more money. so that's the good news. >> interesting. >> the bad news is that the pay gap persists, and a big reason they think that this pay gap is persisting in spite of women asking for more money is the perception that continues to persist that women aren't asking for money, that women make less money and that the bias is on our shoulders to fix. >> yeah, that perception, is that -- that's real. that's real, houma, isn't it real quick? >> it is real, and a lot of employers need to do some self-reflection themselves. first of all, we should be paying women the same amount as we pay men as employers, but going into it being very, you know, conscious about the importance of not punishing women for asking for more. >> absolutely. megan mcgrath and huma abedin, thank you both very much. always great to get the team together. that does it for us this morning. ana cabrera picks up the coverage after a quick final break. in the u.s. we see millions of cyber threats each year. that rate is increasing as more and more businesses move to the cloud. - so, the question is... - cyber attack! as cyber criminals expand their toolkit, we must expand as well. we need to rethink... next level moments, need the next level network. 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