were like, you know, this princess leia is a dud. let's give the emperor another shot. >> welcome to "morning joe." >> you don't understand that, do you? >> nope. >> yeah, okay. >> november 7th. we'll have a lot to get to. something with star wars, right? >> thank you for saying it. >> there it is. >> i was worried she'd say "star trek." thank goodness she said "star wars." >> ongoing confusion of those franchises, frankly, is unforgivable, "star wars" and "star trek." mika, we can't have it. >> oh, really? >> before we get to the start of this, also unforgivable. >> i'll give him a lightsaber for christmas. >> that'd be great. a little lightsaber light for the corner of the room. >> for the studio. >> also unforgivable for jets fans, willie, the situation at quarterback. it gets no better. in fact, much, much worse. >> yeah. they lost last night. i guess it was too late for the tabloids, but, yeah, lost 27-6. no offense to speak of. it is a shame. they have a great defense, but they're on the field the entire game. >> great defense. >> can't ask much more from those guys. it's bad in new york right now between the jets, the giants losing their quarterback. zach wilson, they're trying to prop him up, trying to give him ways to succeed. it's just not happening. they cannot get aaron rodgers back fast enough in new york. starting to look like a lost season on both fronts out of metlife stadium in the meadowlands. >> i'm surprised the jets didn't move for somebody at the trade deadline at quarterback that could actually keep them in contention. there were several out there. incredible, what happened this weekend where you had a quarterback who played for the -- was it dobbs who played for the cardinals? >> yeah. >> who got traded and turned the game around and won. i mean, the jets had a chance, didn't do it. it keeps getting uglier. >> that's the thing. as bad as things have been, they were 4-3 going into the game last night. they're a game out of first place in their division, which is staggering when you think about what they've been through this season. unfortunately, if he's under center, they don't have a chance to win, as we saw again last night. >> no. that's what mika was saying last night. >> i was thinking it. >> stayed up and watched the whole thing because that's what we do. >> nope. >> after the "star trek" marathon. >> until 2:00 in the morning. >> exactly. we have a lot to get to this morning. >> we end up with the "wrath of khan," and i'm like, we have two hours to sleep. >> what is that? okay. we'll have expert legal analysis on another contentious day in court for donald trump, with the former president testifying in the civil fraud trial for his business organization. it was a lot. let me tell you, yikes. >> that's a -- >> can't hold back. >> that's a sketch. look at that. >> also ahead -- yeah, no, he was not happy. the judge asked his lawyers to control their client. >> i wouldn't be happy if the s sketch artist made me look like at whoa, what's that? he looks like a character out of "star rs there. >> anyhow, i can't wait to ask our experts ahead exactly how any other defendant would -- >> they have the judge looking pretty good. also ahead, we have the latest on the ground offensive in gaza, as israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu continues to reject calls for a cease-fire but appears to be open to strategic pauses. >> president biden continues to talk about the need to have humanitarian breaks in this to allow civilians to continue to move out, to protect civilians on the ground. netanyahu pushing -- >> very complicated. >> -- back on it, but they're right now talking about, quote, strategic pauses. whatever that means for the hostages and also for the gaza civilians. plus, it is election day in america. a big one. we'll break down some of the key races across the country and why they matter. >> willie, everybody has been talking about the polls, and they don't matter other than -- >> the races matter. >> -- a snapshot in time, right? we can see the trend lines are breaking against the biden white house. they should be scared as hell. voters shouldn't be if they support joe biden. they should just register, vote, get their friends to vote. these elections tonight, they do matter. i mean, they have shown over the -- during the trump era, they have shown republican failures in '17 that led to republican failures in '18. republican failures in the off years in '19 led to republican failures in '20. same with '21. republicans are on a seven-year losing streak. it's going to be interesting whether they can snap that tonight. >> yeah, the big snapshot is in the state of kentucky, where tin couple bent democratic governor, andy beshear, is running against the state's attorney general, daniel cameron. polling very close beshear is a democrat in a state that donald trump won by 25 or 26 points. donald trump has endorsed daniel cameron. both these guys viewed as stars in the party with big futures ahead of them. that'll be really fascinating to see which way that breaks, with donald trump coming into that race in support of the republican. >> right. the virginia race also going to be really telling, to see what happens in a lot of those legislative races. katty kay, especially the legislative races in northern virginia. there is a senate seat especially that matters. also, i know you, mika, and i are looking at the ohio abortion referendum. that's going to be a fascinating insight to see where voters are in a red, red state. >> yeah, both virginia and ohio are going to be a reflection of how much momentum there is on the abortion side. democrats, of course, still hoping that abortion is the issue that can mitigate some of that bad polling over the last couple of days for joe biden on the age front, on the economy front. they're hoping abortion will get people to the polls. i spent a lot of time in northern virginia. i'm out there two, three days a week. one of the key districts, district 31, where you have a race for the state senate, there have been yard signs up for months which suggest there's a lot of enthusiasm. yard signs on both sides. a lot for the democrat, perry, and a lot for the republican candidate. hard to say one candidate has more than the other. the one thing i note, for an off year election, i have not seen this much enthusiasm in the state for a long time. let's see who gets to the polls. >> interesting. >> jonathan lemire, we have seen, especially since dobbs, just a political earthquake. we've seen it in kansas. we've seen it in kentucky. we've seen it in wisconsin. we've seen it in one red state after another. one state that trump won in '16 after another. it's going to be fascinating to see what happens tonight again in ohio, in virginia, especially in northern virginia, in those suburbs. of course, if beshear can defy political gravity and win in a state that trump won by 25 points, democrats would see that as a massive victory, of course. i've got to believe the white house, i mean, they're knocking on wood, crossing themselves, throwing salt over their left shoulder. they're doing everything because a democratic win tonight in lot of these states will completely wipe away any talk of one "new york times"/siena college spade of polls. i will say, if republicans -- and i'll be saying this tomorrow morning -- if republicans win for the first time since 2016, then it really will be time for the biden white house to batten down the hatches and get ready for a storm ahead. >> a number of democrats said versions of the same thing to me yesterday. no matter how bad the polls look, what we have seen in the post 2016 era, what happens? democrats actually win elections. we saw that with the midterms in 2022 and a number of the special elections since then. certainly, abortion rights a big part of that. yes, there's a lot of concern among democrats right now, a lot of second-guessing about the biden campaign strategy to this pot. they have not gone after donald trump as hard, perhaps, as they could have. they sort of outsourced that to other republicans, primary contenders, thinking they'd take down donald trump. they chose not to. they have not attacked him, and we've seen trump maintain a massive lead. things could change today. the narrative heading in, one year out from 2024, could change today on a number of levels. if governor beshear would win, it's cement him as a rising national star. >> yeah. >> virginia expected to be close. abortion rights a big part of that. ohio, people i've talked to think abortion rights will be another victory in ohio, which would continue that streak and give democrats momentum and underscore yet again, joe and mika, even as we look at the battleground state polls, abortion, choice, is going to be such a major issue next year, too, as much as the names biden and trump. >> yup. >> you know, these elections can either underscore what these "new york times"/siena college polls were saying, or completely blow them out of the water. i just wonder, there were some political experts in the past couple of days who have said, oh, joe biden maybe shouldn't run. i wonder, why don't they wait for real evidence? isn't this election day, the outcome of it, a great sign of where things are going, opposed to a poll? >> it is. it certainly is. david axelrod has been critical of joe biden for years. >> wait two days. >> for years. certainly, david is respected, a friend of ours. truth is, though, he's always been critical of joe biden. always second-guessed him. there are people second-guessing him. i will say, what david axelrod is saying out loud, a lot of democrats are saying quietly. there's no doubt about it. but we've talked about this time and again. joe biden was doubted when he first announced in 2019. he was doubted throughout 2019. he was mocked and doubted after iowa. he was mocked and doubted after new hampshire. he was mocked and doubted after nevada. everybody said he needed to drop out of the race. then south carolina came. he swept through and won. then he was sweating in the basement, too old, but he beat donald trump. he was too old. blah, blah, blah. 2022, we were supposed to have a red wave. instead, it was an extraordinary night, historic night for democrats. a historic night for joe biden. you think he was the first president since fdr, a first term president whose midterm election went the way it did, as far as no governors of his party losing. then it's like, okay, he's good. then he is too old. then he delivers the state of the union address. >> let's see how it goes. >> joe biden has been underestimated his entire life and is being upside down estimated now. this is not a smart bet, to bet against him, but if people want to, they can, certainly. >> yeah. >> that's their right. i will say, following up, willie, on what john just said. the biden white house is actually debating whether joe biden should attack donald trump or not. this reminds me of 1988. michael due kau due dukakis saying, i'm going to not attack the flag factories across the country. pushing the lawn mower, i'm not answering those attacks. you have to answer the attacks. whoever inside the white house is telling joe biden not to attack donald trump, stop it. seriously, stop it. maybe start a lawn service with push lawn mowers. you don't know what you're doing. you don't know what you're talking about, and you're costing the president. you really are. you're costing him points. this is a political battle to the end. donald trump is trying to destroy joe biden. i'm not exactly sure, willie, who inside the white house is saying, "hey, when you go up against the champ, mike tyson in '91, muhammad ali in, like, '73, you should fight by marquess of queensberry rules." no! you've got to go after him. no holds barred. willie, they're still trying to debate, do we play nice in this campaign, or do we actually take it to a guy that stole nuclear secrets, has been accused of being a rapist by a new york judge, and has 91 felony counts against him charged. it's not hard. i don't think this is hard. i'm not sure who inside the white house is making this hard. >> well, it goes without saying that donald trump is not going to fight fair. he's going to go nuclear whenever he has the chance. he is doing that every day. did it yesterday outside the courtroom. the case from the white house, as jonathan knows, is we're going to run on our record. you can do both. you can say, "hey, the economy is pretty good. here's why." and you can also say, "the guy i'm running against might tear down the democracy, and here's why what he is saying about me is false." two things at once as we like to say on the show. speaking of the former president, yesterday, he defended his actions as head of the trump organization yesterday at the civil fraud trial in new york. nbc news senior legal correspondent laura jarrett has more on trump's testimony. >> reporter: a combative donald trump testifying for hours in a manhattan courtroom with his real estate empire on the line. >> ridiculous. >> reporter: mr. trump showing flashes of anger as he spared with the judge and the new york attorney general's office, brushing off accusations he doctored financial statements to inflate the value of some of his most well-known properties, like mar-a-lago, trump tower, and 40 wall street, all to defraud banks and lenders. >> at the end of the day, the only thing that matters are the facts and the numbers. and numbers, my friends, don't lie. >> reporter: already found liable for fraud, the former president now trying to fend off a $250 million penalty. growing heated when pressed about whether he overvalued assets found in the trump organization's annual financial statements. his face turning red, raising his voice, pointing directly at the judge seated inches away, yelling, "he called me a fraud, and he didn't know anything about me." a reference to the judge's pretrial decision that ruled in the state's favor. also going after the attorney general herself, watching on in the courtroom. mr. trump calling her a political hack. >> i will not be bullied. i will not be harassed. this case will go on. >> reporter: mr. trump did make some concessions, admitting he probably saw some of the disputed financial statements that went to banks and lenders while repeatedly dismissing them as not important, because they included certain disclaimers. saying that his net worth is actually far greater than what is reflected in his financial statements, touting the value of the trump brand. >> the numbers are much greater than on the financial statement. we've already proven that. they said mar-a-lago is worth $18 million. it's anywhere from probably 50 to 100 times more than that. >> reporter: the judge's patience tested at times by that rhetoric on the witness stand, calling parts of mr. trump's testimony irrelevant and rambling. warning the republican frontrunner, this is not a political rally. >> laura jarrett reporting there. let's bring in nbc news legal analyst catherine christian, a former assistant district attorney in the manhattan d.a.'s office, and former u.s. attorney and senior fbi official, chuck rosenberg. good morning to you both. catherine, as defenses go, "my accountants did it," is that convincing, compelling? >> it is not a good defense. accountants rely on information from the clients to prepare financial statements and tax returns. if the information is false, the financial statements, the tax returns are going to be false because the client gave false information. his testimony, trump's testimony yesterday did nothing to help his case. he was speaking to his base, to appease his base. nothing he said helped his case. >> so what about the theatrics, the judge turning to mr. trump's attorneys and saying, "get control of this guy or i will." the attorneys obviously have no control over donald trump. how does that play into the outcome of what we're seeing here? >> first, it was not a jury trial. if the jury had been in that courtroom, the judge would have shut him down. you can't have a jury hear irrelevant, inadmissible and prejudiced evidence. the judge was wise to stop engaging with him. at the beginning, the judge was engaging him and getting upset. at one point, just decided, just let him roll. there is no jury here. let him go. he is the judge and the trier of the fact, so if donald trump just wants to, you know, annoy the judge, let him do it. >> mika, here is what it looks like on the front page of the "wall street journal." trump in fraud trial spars with judge and defends business. you actually have a view inside the courtroom in "the new york times," taking us through all the key players there. but you turn it over, and the story talks about how donald trump admitted that he actually was involved in some of the conduct that is at the heart of the case. >> a question for chuck rosenberg. chuck, donald trump walked out and, you know, got lots of cameras clicking and rolling as he was saying things went very well in court today. so did that go well? did he have a good day in court yesterday? >> mika, they did not go well in court, not for mr. trump. look, he's really functioning, operating in two different venues. in court, he did poorly. his answers were rambling and incoherent. to the extent he's not answering questions, the judge can rightfully infer that the answers would not be helpful to mr. trump. as catherine just said, the judge is the trier of the facts. like, if you ask me, mika, did i steal a cookie from the cookie jar, and i tell you you're derange and had a fraud, and this whole process is a sham and a witch hunt, you can logically conclude that i stole the cookie from the cookie jar. in that venue, mr. trump did really poorly, but there was another venue which he cares deeply about. it was the one outside the courtroom. i think for his supporters and his base, the combative trump is what they love, what they saw, and what they got. you know, legally, no, it was a bit of a train wreck. politically, time will tell. >> chuck, he was even saying at one point, you know, and i hope the public is watching. very aware of the fact this has a tv audience around the country of people who might vote for him. what does this mean for future trials, and how can judges prevent this spectacle from becoming an extension of donald trump's political campaign? >> yeah, great question, katty. i think catherine eluded to the answer here. so there was no jury in this particular case. so the judge can hear irrelevant answers and ignore them and still make a decision on the merits, which i trust this judge will do. if a jury had been in the room, if the jury had been a trier of the fact, the judge would have had to really contain mr. trump much more than he did. look, i grew up as a federal prosecutor in a district where i don't believe any of the judges would have permitted this nonsense. so a trial in front of a jury, number one, katty, can look different than a trial in front of a judge. by the way, in a criminal case, and that's what remains for mr. trump in four instances, two federal and two state, in a criminal case, it is highly unlikely he gets on the stand. all this nonsense, all this rambling and incoherence, all this histrionichistrionics, theu saw in front of a judge is not something i think you're likely to see in a criminal case in front of a jury. >> jonathan lemire, it is a real split screen that we've been observing over the past six months or so, where you have donald trump, who, again, hurting himself legally, hurting himself in front of judges time and time again, but in many cases, that helping him politically. "the wall street journal" lead editorial this morning, "will donald trump be indicted back into office?" they cite an article that was in "politico" last week, that said the win it back pac was actually going to use these trials against him, use the court cases against him. of the four ads, none of them moved any persuadables. two of the four actually made those persuadables break more toward donald trump. so even while donald trump is blowing his businesses up in the court of law, that rambling that we see outside is actually connecting politically. we may have a guy who loses his businesses, a guy who is fined $250 million and can't afford to pay it, a guy who ends up indicted and convicted in the washington case, and a guy who is still the odds-on favorite to be the next president of the united states. >> trump has been effective at weaponizing the criminal cases, and this civil case, to rally his supporters and republicans. polls show some republicans who were on the fence about trump have come back to him because of these prosecutions. they think it's unfair. we should note, those much discussed "new york times" polls over the weekend, part two of that was if trump were to be convicted in one of these, that would cause his support to drop about, on average, six points in each state, which would give about all of them back to president biden. again, there may be short-term help here for trump with the primaries. a general election could be a different story. catherine, you know, trump was on the stand yesterday, but he might come back. the defense team is suggesting that they could call him, as well. perhaps as early as next week. a, do you think that'll happen? b, what do you think they would try to accomplish by bringing a pretty erratic witness back to the stand? >> it would only happen if donald trump insists on it. remember, if he comes back as their witness, the prosecutors, the ag's office, will get to cross-examine him. it will only be because he's insisting he needs to do the show again and to appease his base. it'll just continue to hurt his case here. >> in fact, he was asked about a financial statement from 2021, and he said, "i was busy working on china and russia and keeping our country safe," to which the state attorney said, "you weren't president in 2021." he goes, "oh, yeah, that's right." that's the kind of witness he'd be. quickly, catherine, for our viewers' guide, where is this headed next? how quickly might this wrap up? >> next is tomorrow, ivanka trump is testifying. the attorney general said she will be their last witness. then the defense case. donald trump will have his witnesses. he was saying yesterday, he'll have deutsche bank come. we'll see if that happens. >> catherine christian, chuck rosenberg, we'll be watching this closely. thanks so much. we appreciate it. mika? >> all right. >> i just want to read this one part here. >> sure. >> of this "times" -- or this "wall street journal." >> the headline is a question. >> yeah. >> will trump be indicted back into office? two of the tv ads, quote, backfired across almost all demographic groups. one of those was the most pointed argument tested. quote, i've been with trump from the start, the narraor says, but, truthfully, i don't know what happens if he's convicted while he is running. the ads never ran because they all backfired. as jonathan says, day twotimes" story that ran, we didn't talk about so much yesterday or, i guess, this morning, and that is that if he is convicted, across all the states, he loses an average of six points. so we'll see what happens. these could be short-term gains, but there is no doubt -- and then "the wall street journal" cites it time and again, where donald trump was starting to go down. he got indicted in manhattan. his numbers went up. he got indicted in georgia. his numbers went up. he got indicted by the doj. his numbers went up. among republicans and some independents. >> there's a lot to be said for cameras in the courtroom. i know -- >> totally agree. >> -- others are fighting for that. the news media is. i do think he, you know, has the ability to control the narrative. yesterday, leading his followers to believe he had a great day in court. >> right. >> when he didn't. >> right, yeah. >> i really think we need more transparency. not something that can be changed necessarily, but it would help a lot if people saw what was happening in court. >> there's no doubt. >> for themselves. >> there's no doubt about it. donald trump is going to dominate once you get outside and you're in front of the cameras. >> yeah. >> in front of the microphones. he's been doing it 45 years. the question really is, katty kay, why in the world wouldn't jack smith make a motion? why wouldn't they try to publicize the washington, d.c., trial, and have transparency? americans will see it. we can think of one trial after another trial. i mean, from oj simpson to johnny depp, i mean, americans sit and watch. it's not like johnny depp comes outside afterwards, talks to the press, and frames the entire thing. people see whether it's oj or any of these other cases, people have a view of it the entire time, and they can look at donald trump. i must say, i'm quite confident, if there's transparency, there will be a lot of people who will break off from him, especially independents, because they will see, the government has him dead to right on this stuff. >> may be the only time in history johnny depp has been compared to donald trump, joe. >> oj simpson. >> i'm not sure what the pirate of the caribbean would make of it. listen, the argument that the trump campaign is making is that this is a political vendetta. each of these trials is just there to get trump. the fact that there are so many trials, in a sense, they're saying, reinforces our case, that this is all about politics and trying to make sure donald trump doesn't win the next election. so the way you try to dispel misinformation of that kind is by putting as much sunlight on it as possible. if you had cameras in the courtroom, which so many journalists are calling for, because this is a point of such public interest at a critical time in america's politics, would that help to show that the process was fair and legitimate and this was about the rule of law and not about politics? now, i'm sure there will be many people who support donald trump who will never believe that, whether there are cameras in the courtroom or not, but it's possible that a solid court proceeding conducted as american law should be conducted, without the histrionics, what chuck was saying earlier, because donald trump won't be on the stand, would give people a chance to say, no, this is not about political vendetta. this is not a witch hunt against donald trump. this is about the rule of law. here are the facts in each of the cases that lead to a conclusion of guilt or innocence. >> you look, mika, at the january 6th committee. everybody thought it was going to be a dud. everybody thought americans wouldn't be tuning in. 20 million people watched. it actually made a difference. >> we'll talk about this more. still ahead on "morning joe," a lot more to cover. is there a third option for israel in its military campaign against hamas in gaza? richard haass joins us with that. also ahead, a closer look at what's on the ballot today in states across the country, including ohio. voters will decide on an amendment to protect abortion rights. we're back in 60 seconds. in the u.s. we see millions of cyber threats each year. that rate is increasing as more and more businesses move to the cloud. - so, the question is... - cyber attack! as cyber criminals expand their toolkit, we must expand as well. we need to rethink... next level moments, need the next level network. [speaker continues in the background] the network with 24/7 built-in security. chip? at&t business. i'm sarah escherich, i'm the life enrichment director at independence village, the senior living community in waukee, iowa. everybody here really, really make you feel like family and that they love you. our goal with tiktok was to enrich the lives of our residents and just to be able to show people what senior living can be like. i think i am a tiktok grandma. my kids think i am. i mean, we're the ones that are being entertained. time goes faster when you're having fun. today marks one month since hamas terrorists attacked israel and israeli forces are advancing their ground operation, severing northern gaza from the rest of the territory. yesterday, israel pounded the region with air strikes. officials say they hit 450 targets, killing a number of hamas commanders. casualties are expected to rise sharply once the war turns to close urban combat. israeli media reports troops are expected to enter gaza city soon. meanwhile, in a phone call yesterday with israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu, president biden mentioned possible tactical pauses, saying they would allow time for more aid to enter gaza and let civilians safely leave the territory. the white house says it could also help with hostage negotiations. shortly after that call, netanyahu appeared on abc news for his first televised interview since the october 7th terrorist attack. here's what he had to say about the notion of a cease-fire. >> while there will be no cease-fire, general cease-fire in gaza without the release of our hostages, as far as tactical pauses, hour here, hour there, we've had them before. i suppose we'll check the circumstances in order to enable goods, humanitarian goods to come in, or our hostages, individual hostages to leave, but i don't think there's going to be a general cease-fire. it's not that i don't think. i think it'll hamper the war effort. it'll hamper our effort to get our hostages out. the only thing that works on these criminals in hamas is the military pressure we're exerting. >> joining us now, president emeritus of the council on foreign relations, richard haass. his book, "the bill of obligations, ten habits of good citizens," is out today in paperback. >> we're going to talk about the book. we're also going to talk about a recent article that you wrote, that i want to talk about, the third option. before we do that, i'm going to follow up on conversations we've had with ed luce, "the financial times" ed luce. the column peggy noonan wrote in the "wall street journal" over the weekend. also, something you wrote last week about the man there, benjamin netanyahu. the question is, how we move forward has israel's closest ally, and how we have other allies move forward with a man running israel, a man that not only the world community doesn't trust, but far more importantly, the israeli people don't trust. what benjamin netanyahu said right there, i think an awful lot of people would agree with. the fact that he is the messenger and the fact that nobody believes that he's not taking actions without trying to resurrect his own political career almost negates the message itself. you know, the message -- the medium is the message. in this case, nobody has any confidence in netanyahu. >> look, it's true. china, you have the expression, mandate of heaven. that's what leaders need. bibi netanyahu has lost the mandate of heaven. he's not trusted or respected by a lot of the israeli people. there's only two ways to remove him. one is in parliament. he could be replaced by some other figure. or future elections. not going to have elections in the middle of this crisis. the only real thing is to, you know, see if the israelis decide to remove him. i don't think we can control it, joe. it's our policy toward him. where i would disagree at times or suggest, is the united states ought to become more forceful. he's not a partner in many ways. >> right. >> we're probably stuck with him for the foreseeable future, but i don't think he can have a veto on everything that goes on. >> well, we have to be more forceful. we have to be more forceful because if you talk to, and i have, high-ranking members of the trump administration, identify talk di've talked to them recently, talked to people in the biden administration, i mean, the problem is that what we learned a month ago is how much the israelis depend on the united states in so many ways. we have to have a way. we have to be able to say what you were talking about, which is, yes, we will defend israel's right to exist. yes, we will support you as you go to root out and destroy hamas. yes, we will help you fight to get the hostages back. but, no, we will not sit back meekly while you allow radical settlers in the west bank to run around, hunt down palestinians and shoot them, thereby creating a situation, richard, where we may have israel fighting hamas, hezbollah in the north, and palestinians in the west bank. they're making the situation -- they're making a horrible situation worse, unless they get control of the extremists in the west bank. netanyahu has never done that. >> 100% right. those people are critical to h political coalition right now. it also undermines the fight against hamas. what the israelis need to show, there is an alternative path to the satisfaction of legitimate palestinian political aspirations. that means no settler violence. no more new settlements. it means building up the capacity of the palestinian authority in the west bank. moving toward a palestinian state there. you have to show that the path to palestinian political success is not hamas violence. it's something else. the israelis keep undermining the something else. as a result, hamas is something of a onopoly on palestinian politics, and that's outrageous. >> yeah. richard, in your latest substack piece, you write about a third option for israel. quote, and this is par of it, what would this third option require? israel's military effort would be recast as long-term and low intensity rather than short-term and intense. israel would need to forego military strikes that would likely result in a large number of civilian casualti. israel would accept pauses, if hamas did as well, restrain settlement activity and hold off any further annexation. settler violence would be reined in, and dreams of transfer of palestinians out of occupied territories would be jettisoned. eect much of this would be unacceptable to bibi netanyahu, israel's embattled prime minister. it would be up to israel's parliament to repla him or the israeli public to elect someone prepared to back something along the lines of this third option. i expect this would only have a chance of happening if president biden were to become a strong advocate for such an israeli policy. >> what would also happen with netanyahu out, you'd have a government out where he's placed extremists in the cabinet, that basically were so obsessed with the west bank, they didn't see october 7th coming. so you have that tragedy, as well. my god, actually getting competent people back in the cabinet instead of people whose only focus is to be as extreme as possible, to keep netanyahu in office. i must also say, richard, your third option is also more possible now because israel has cordoned off gaza. it is cut in half. at this point, you can conduct the low-intensity, urban warfare without the continued dropping of bombs at the rate they've been dropping them. >> yeah. i think the israelis have to get rid of the notion that, somehow, going in big and doing this fast is the answer. i understand why bibi netanyahu might want to do things the way he wants, something big and dramatic to undo the failures of october 7th. >> yes, he does. >> that's not the way you want to successfully conduct an operation. plus, now, he is talking about israeli occupation, open ended, of gaza. >> no. >> that means a lot of israelis, i fear soldiers, are going to get killed. again, who are they going to hand it off to? when you go into these things, and the israelis ought to have learned this in lebanon, it is one thing to enter a hostile territory but it's another to hand it off to something better that can survive. i simply do not see a strategy on israel's side, about what comes next. what comes the morning after? the palestinian authority, the arab world, the u.n., none of these have the will and the capability to run gaza, and none of them are going to allow israel to midwife this political process. it'll undermine any legitimacy it has. i really don't understand what the israelis are embarking on here. >> as we heard in the interview, richard, that was from last night, prime minister netanyahu was completely unmoved by any calls of cease-fire from the u.n., from activist groups, from anyone. >> sure. >> he says, if we cease-fire, hamas comes right back at us. we know what that means. when you talk about what comes next, what are the possibilities even? isn't it just that hamas or some other version of hamas comes back to power? even if, as netanyahu said, our goal is to completely squash hamas, what happens after that? >> that's my concern. you don't call it hamas. something hamas-like would happen. everything israel is doing, willie, is generating the next generation of hamas. israel needs to rebuild its defenses. october 7th wasn't just about hamas. israel never should have allowed that to happen. it has to improve its intelligence, rebuild its defenses, restore deterrence. i think that is possible. it's got to build an alternative. that alternative has got to be in the west bank. you can't beat something with nothing. yes, you have a military strategy. israel goes in whenever it has a high value target and is not going to kill a lot of civilianings. i think the israelis have to undertake this with much more careful targeting. the idea that you can -- any strike is justified, no matter how many civilians get killed, because you have a hamas target is not a sustainable strategy. but they need a political dimension to their policy. you can't win this kind of a struggle with only military force. that's why it's so important they begin the process of building a palestinian alternative in the west bank, stop undermining them, rein in the settlers big time. again, send the message, what hamas is doing is a dead end. show. make the west bank a positive palestinian experience. build up the capacity. then you could have a serious conversation about the palestinian authority maybe working with some arab countries going into gaza. may that might be five or ten years from now. we have to get to that point. the path they're on will not get us to that point. >> well, we've got to get to that point. it does start with the israeli government not undermining the palestinian authority, like netanyahu has done for well over a decade. again, that's the nonviolent approach, yet, they're undermined every day right now. the reason i'm talking about this is not only because palestinians -- because the two-state solution is best for palestinians. a two-state solution, whether extremists in benjamin netanyahu's government believes it or not, is the best thing for israel. they've got to start looking ahead, as richard says. they've got to start planning ahead. when you undermine the palestinian authority day after day after day after day, you build up groups like hamas. we saw one month ago today, mika, what that leads to. >> exactly. benjamin netanyahu does not want to talk about the context in this which happened. he does not want to talk about that because then it addresses the massive security failure that happened under his leadership. >> massive security breach. >> he will put that off as much as possible. richard, "the bill of obligations, ten habits of good citizens," out today in paperback. how is the united states citizenry doing in its bill of obligations? >> not so good. not so good. look, you know, obviously, you get the government you deserve, not the government you need. citizens have got to get more involved. look, we have an election coming up. you've been talking about the polls. what recent history shows, and you know this better than i do, is small numbers can really have outsized outcomes. we've got to get americans more informed. you have to motivate people to vote. they've got to start supporting politicians who put the country before their party or their personal goals. if we continue to support politicians who put our own personal goals first or the party, we're going to have the mess we have in washington. you know where this is heading. there are longer term things, too. we have to get civics taught in high schools and colleges. it is crazy you can graduate from most of this country's high schools and colleges never having read the declaration of independence, never having read the constitution or the federalist papers. not knowing why democracy is good or what it takes to operate it. we have to scale all of public service. states probably have to do it. california is doing it. maryland is looking at it. we have got to get americans to do some public service. it brings people together who otherwise would never meet, who continue to see government as the enemy. we've got to work on two tracks. we've got to deal with the immediate challenge of 2024, and we've got to change the foundation of democracy in this country. look, in 2 1/2 year, we've got the 250th anniversary of the declaration of independence on july 4th, 2026. i want to make sure, my goal is both big and simple, i want to make sure american democracy at its 250th anniversary is still in tact. it's still robust. quite honestly, we have 2 1/2 years and a lot of work to do. >> "the bill of obligations, the ten habits of good citizens" out today in paperback. richard haass, as always, thank you very much for being on this morning. coming up, speaking of, it's election day in america. we're covering all the key issues. jonathan martin will join us on how the race in one key state will not only choose a governor but also could potentially elect a future president. he'll explain that next on "morning joe." (vo) in three seconds, janice will win a speedboat. (woman) bingo! i'm moving to the lake. gotta sell the house. (vo) ooh! that's a lot of work. (woman) ooh! (vo) don't worry. skip the hassels and sell directly to opendoor. (woman) bingo. (vo) get your competitive offer at opendoor dot com. when i first learned about my dupuytren's contracture, my physician referred me to a hand specialist. and i'm glad he did, because when i took the tabletop test, i couldn't lay my hand flat anymore. the first hand specialist i saw only offered surgery. so, i went to a second hand specialist who also offered nonsurgical options - which felt more right for me. so, what i'd say to other people with dupuytren's contracture is this: don't wait —find a hand specialist trained in nonsurgical options, today. i found mine at findahandspecialist.com. hi. my name is kim and i am 41 years old. i've been given the opportunity to work from home, so that means lots of video calls. i see myself more and i definitely see those deeper lines. i'm still kim and i got botox® cosmetic. i wanted to keep the expressions that i would normally have, you know, you're on camera and the only person they can look at is you. i was really happy with the results. i look like me just with fewer lines. botox® cosmetic is fda approved to temporarily make frown lines, crow's feet, and forehead lines look better. the effects of botox® cosmetic may spread hours to weeks after injection, causing serious symptoms. alert your doctor right away as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems, or muscle weakness may be a sign of a life-threatening condition. do not receive botox® cosmetic if you have a skin infection. side effects may include allergic reactions, injection site pain, headache, eyebrow, eyelid drooping and eyelid swelling. tell your doctor about your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions, and medications, including botulinum toxins, as these may increase the risk of serious side effects. see for yourself at botoxcosmetic.com. willie, we are now ready to call the college football national championship. i've seen enough. alabama is going to be this year's ncaa football champion. >> joe, they look good on saturday night, right? the quarterback is coming into his own. they only have one loss. they have a big one this weekend, ole miss. to get to the championship game, they beat the dogs, they're in, man. they're in. >> i have to tell you, a big game was against texas. milroe threw a couple bad passes. at alabama, we expect to win every game. people were melting down. the kid is a freshman. give him a chance. i don't know how much of the lsu game you saw the other night. he looked like a heisman trophy winner. >> incredible. >> imagine now trying to defend against a guy who can pass the ball 50 yards on a dime with great running backs. and when he gets in the open field and runs -- >> forget it. >> -- defensive backs quake. he runs them over. i don't know if you saw, i mean, he busted a guy's shoulder. he was running to the end zone. lsu, they build them big. runs into the end zone, literally runs over a linebacker who falls to the ground and he stares at him. i mean, i'm dead serious. could you imagine being a defensive coordinator going, okay, we have a guy who can run better than most running backs, who can pass better than most quarterbacks, and an extraordinary running attack. by the way, their defense, how many number one draft picks is alabama going to have on the defensive side of the ball this year? >> yeah. it's always -- >> who is laughing? >> that's jonathan martin. he wants to chime in. >> see who gets equal time. >> i don't know if you want it. >> targeting call that was not called against jaden daniels. outrageous. >> come on. >> knocked lsu's quarterback out of the game. should have one of the heismans. >> he's a good player. joe, as you know, one loss is panic time in tuscaloosa. they're fine. >> three in baton rouge. >> yeah, that's -- you're out the back bowl. >> exactly. >> that quarterback runs a 4.4 and is huge. they have a shot. the s.e.c. is brutal. you have a couple more really hard games. beat georgia probably. >> yeah. >> s.e.c. championship game. you're there. >> we're playing kentucky. we've got -- chattanooga, you don't want to take them on. the mocks, rolling into chattanooga, it's a gauntlet. then we're playing in auburn on the plains. that's going to be something. then, you know, if all goes well, a heck of an s.e.c. championship game against georgia. so long as the bulldogs keep on winning. speaking of kentucky, willie. >> nice. >> that was smooth. >> speaking of kentucky, tied my mom and dad's wildcats this weekend. man, tonight, a big race in tennessee. >> yes, the aforementioned jonathan martin is writing about that in his latest piece. he takes a look at the possible political futures for both candidates in kentucky's governor race. before we talk about the future, let's talk about tonight. >> sure. >> you have an incumbent goff governor, anchor vanderbilt guy, andy beshear. donald trump won the state. you have a rising star, the attorney general, daniel cameron, polling real tight here. what do you expect tonight? >> well, beshear is a unicorn in kentucky. he's the last independent democrat in the state. there's nobody left but him. he's the last democrat in kentucky. he shouldn't be there politically, given the state's tilt. he is a very capable politician, and he's mostly known, willie, as a sort of capable administrator, in response to covid, series of natural disasters. when you have that halo and you're not seen as political, that could be a huge help to you when you are an incumbent governor seeking re-election. >> to your point, this is a democrat in the state of kentucky, governor beshear. 60% approval rating, one of the most popular governors in the nation. >> a lot of republicans in the poll are saying they like him because they view him not as a partisan but as someone who has done a good job administrating government. >> donald trump has endorsed daniel cameron here. >> yes. >> how are you expecting this to shake out tonight? >> i think the cameron folks would have liked to have had president trump come into the state. it would have been helpful the last few days to have him come in and rally support. that didn't obviously happen. look, this is kentucky. i expect to see a close race tonight. it's the kind of campaign where i think we could be up late watching the returns. don't forget, part of the state on central time. we're probably not going to know at least until 8:30 or 9:00 tonight. >> john? >> jonathan, let's talk about how the governor handled his relationship and distance from joe biden, who is deeply unpopular in the state of kentucky. with a win tonight, there could be white house chatter about his future, too. >> whichever of these candidates win tonight, as i wrote in my column this week, they're going to get 2028 chatter, whether it's for president or vp, no question about it. look, i think beshear has tried to sort of carefully avoid biden the best he can. look, when they've had a natural disaster in the state, he's welcomed biden. besides that, he's not seen with the president. i was in the state twice this year, both times talking to beshear. i asked him about president biden. he doesn't like saying the president's name much and doesn't talk about his policies much at all. the only policy he praised biden on is infrastructure. this, by the way, mitch mcconnell also voted for. not really a daring lefty issue. he is carefully sidestepping the national party. he wants to localize the race. cameron wants to nationalize the race. cameron's entire campaign is, beshear is a vote for biden. this is a great test tonight, willie, of the classic strategy. can one candidate localize the race, or can the other nationalize the race? >> you're writing in the piece about the future. let's look at the bench the democrats have as they look at 2024. getting nervous and scared about what could happen there. you have governor beshear. you have josh shapiro, gretchen whitmer, gavin newsom. they have a deep bench. does governor beshear have greater aspirations than the job he has now? >> it's like the bama recruiting class. saban gets to tuscaloosa year in and year out. it is a murderer's row of talent. those guys right now, literal this this week, they have to be pining to run in '24. that avenue is shut off for obvious reasons. but that generation, certainly, is chasing. i think if beshear wins tonight, you have to include his name in the litany of governors. he'll probably be one of two democratic governors left in the entire south next year if he does win. middle-aged, obviously a white guy. if the party has challenges with white ma males going forward, at has, you can see him being a sensible fit for at least vp. >> the new piece for "politico." senior columnist and bengals fan, jonathan martins. >> go tigers. >> yeah. our next guest breaks down donald trump's combative day in court, and explains how the former president may have made a key admission on the stand. that's coming up next on "morning joe." is it possible my network could take my business to the next level? it with gig-speed wifi.nesris and you get fast downloads and uploads. pick it up! pick it up! oh we got this! because it's powered by the next generation 10g network. more speed for your business? it's not just possible. it's happening. get started for $59.99 a month for 12 months. plus, ask how to get an $800 prepaid card with a qualifying internet bundle. comcast business, powering possibilities. gavin newsom was criticized, saying he was planning to run for president. opposed to fetterman, who looks like a guy who doesn't wipe down the equipment at the gym. >> welcome back to "morning joe." it is tuesday, november 7th. >> that you, lemire? do you not wipe down -- >> lemire gets out a windex bottle, and it's every curve and crevice. >> do the towel. >> i believe in gym hygiene. you have to keep it clean, only fair. >> it's only fair to your fellow gym rats. jonathan lemire, katty kay still with us. let's -- >> good for me to know. >> yeah. >> willie, if i ever go to a gym, i will -- >> he does. >> -- know gym etiquette. >> i clean after him. >> you can go 24 hours, joe, go before the show. >> oh, i like that idea. get up at maybe 2:00. >> first thing in the morning. >> katty, sound like a good idea? get up at 2 :00, work out a couple hours. >> i know mika tried that for a little bit, and i'm seriously hoping she's seen the light and realized getting up at 2:00 in the morning is not good for any human being. >> i did, too. it was bad. >> 3:30 is not so bad. i kind of want to get back into it. >> no, no, no. it's not so bad, but we did it for one week. that was the end. >> i did it more. >> not so bad. at the same time, soul crushing. two things can be true at once. >> let's get to our top story this hour. the second hour of "morning joe." donald trump took to the witness stand in the new york city courtroom for several hours yesterday to answer questions about his knowledge of fraudulent financial statements filed by the trump orgazation. the former president sparred with the judge in the case as if the judge hadn't already made a decision about it, which he has. while also lashing out, the prosecution and the trial itself. the judge who will determine the outcome of the case in terms of punishments instead of a jury. >> that's important. again, they've already had the part of the case regarding whether tmp is liable for being fraudulent. >> he is. >> so they've had that phase of the trial. we're now to the penalty phase of the trial, in case you're just tuning in on this. this time, they're determining the outcome of the case in terms of penalties instead of the jury. >> yeah. the judge repeatedly admonished trump for not responding directly to questions. instead, he did little speeches. between rants, trump did acknowledge helping to assemble annual financial statements submitted to the banks. when asked about whether he was involved in the 2021 valuations of his properties, trump replied that he was so busy in the white house. >> i have to say, that comes as news to us. he said, "my threshold was china, russia, keeping the country safe." >> executive time. >> i did not know he was in the white house helping joe biden on china. >> yeah. >> china. >> interesting. >> to which the prosecutor followed up saying, just to clarify, you weren't president in 2021, were you? to which the president replied, "no, i was not." >> oh, so he knows he didn't win the election. he lost it. okay. the former president is accused of directing his workers to exaggerate financial records to increase his personal net worth in order to help get more favorable rates on loans and insurance policies. he has denied any wrongdoing. trump's lawyers are expected to call him back to the witness stand when they present their case starting next week. >> katty kay, there's one part of the trial yesterday that was just absolutely fascinating. donald trump went on this bizarre rant, and he just continued ranting. it's unfair. it's rigged. it's this, that. and the prosecutor just kept listening, kept listening. finally, he looks at him like he is a 5-year-old toddler and goes, "are you done?" donald trump, like a 5-year-old toddler says, "done." >> yeah. how many times have you got into a long rant with your children and realized that, actually, there was no point because you were never going to win and they weren't either, but you had to let them vent for a little bit of time? it felt like that yesterday. except then they had the break, and there was a change of tactic by the judge. they were going to let donald trump speak. i don't know that there is a way that you put donald trump on any witness stand and expect whaefr whatever oath he's taken to tell the truth, to do that. during the course of his testimony yesterday, there were things he said that the facts didn't add up to. any fact-checker can say that. he doesn't treat a court of law any different than he treats a television interview, honestly, or a campaign rrally. it was the same language and the same tone and the same grievances, and his campaign and his supporters will say that they love him all the more for it. the performance that they saw yesterday, whatever chuck rosenberg was saying in the last hour, how bad it was for him legally, there's no indication that it's bad for him politically. for him, it's all the same venue. >> let's bring into the conversation former u.s. attorney, legal analyst joyce vance. senior legal correspondent at the messenger, adam classfeld. he's been covering the trial live from the courtroom. adam, you were in the room. it's interesting to hear after, at the end of the day, attorney general tish james saying he can rant, rave, call it a witch hunt, and we'll continue to produce documentary evidence of fraud. what was it like in the room, and what is donald trump's goal here? doesn't sound like a legal defense, more of a political one. >> absolutely. it's like what your last guest just said. it was similar to a political rally. as a matter of fact, the judge had to remind trump at one point, this is not a political rally. couple times, he'd threatened to cut trump's testimony short and did not follow through on that threat. that is an interesting thing. what happened? one of the things that did happen is this state's counsel did not object. we can see, as the dust settles, why. let trump cancel, make political statements. his sons played down statements. they are at the heart of the case. don jr. said those were the accountants, the lawyers. eric trump said he didn't have anything to do with it. trump conceded it. the state let him talk. >> there was some blaming of the accountants, but he said, "yes, i did see some of those statements. i look at some and look at others." it was kind of in that way. what is your sense of how the judge is watching and listening and processing this? he is, in effect, the jury here, as we look at this at a bench trial. what is his reaction to everything going on in front of him? >> that was an interesting moment, when the judge threatened to cut off the testimony and didn't. it kind of showed, at one point, the judge said, "you could attack me," which is a remarkable statement for a judge to say to a witness and a defendant in any trial. i think he realizes, and there was some reporting on this in "rolling stone," that the defense may be trying to bait him into an overreaction that would compromise his verdict on appeal. the judge didn't take the bait. >> joyce, i wanted to bring you in on that exact point. that sure seems like what the trump team is trying to do, provoke the judge to say something they can try to use in an appeal or take out of context. we saw one of trump's lawyers try to do exactly that afterwards, quoting what was a heated back and forth between trump and the judge, and suggesting trump wasn't getting a fair hearing here. what's your take on that strategy, and do you think it can be ffective for the former president? >> if that was the strategy, jonathan, it was an utter failure. here's why. as y'all have been discussing, this is a bench trial, where the judge sits in for the jury. if there was a jury in the box, the judge would have been forced to restrict trump's answers. he would have directed trump as a witness to answer the question. he would have been moving to strike any of these extraneous comments trump continued to make which weren't admissible and which were prejudicial. because the judge is hearing the evidence, the law assumes that the judge can set aside anything that is irrevant. this is what the judge ended up doing. he let trump go. i think that was a deliberate decision that the judge made. ultimately, if you are trump's lawyers, sitting at counsel table, you are watching your only hope of surviving this case, which is the appeal, you're watching it fade away. in advance of trial, the judge made, as joe mentioned, the findings about fraud. the trump organization is liable. in essence, the trump organization as a business will be shuttered. they will remove its certificate to operate. on appeal, they would have argued, trump's lawyers, that that decision by the judge was misplaced. he shouldn't have found fraud as a matter of law. yesterday, because the judge let donald trump ramble, donald trump conceded that point. that means that this decision should survive appeal, and trump organization, as trump has operated it for all these years, is at an end. >> adam, ivanka trump, former president's daughter, will be on the stand next. what's your sense, having watched this closely, what do you think of the penalty phase? >> ivanka trump tried to prevent her testimony. she was originally a co-defendant and succeeded in essentially dismissing her claims under the statute of limitations. we could expect a little more of the same. she might be questioned about her old penthouse in trump park avenue. we might find a little bit about the operations, go into the details of how this business operated, but this is going to be the state wrapping up its case. after she's done, we'll have the defense next week. >> do you think donald trump goes on the stand next week? >> we'll see what happens. he's certainly on the defense witness list. they say they plan to call him, and they didn't do a cross-examination. they might be saving him for their own case. >> all right. we will see. senior legal correspondent at the messenger, adam klasfeld, great to have the view from inside the courtroom. >> thank you. special counsel jack smith says donald trump is responsible for the events at the u.s. capitol on january 6th because they were the culmination of his conspiracies to overturn the 2020 presidential election. those comments coming in a filing which was in response to trump's motion to strike inflammatory references to the violence of january 6th from his criminal indictment on four charges related to his efforts to overturn the results of the 2020 presidential election. smith's team called trump's motion a meritless effort, to evade allegations that he was responsibleevents at the capitol today. as "the washington post" reports,eg experts have bated the importance of trp's state of mind in his federal election subveron case, with some arguing thato win a conviction, the government of a politician who amassed a long record of making false or misleading claims while president. the justice department weighed in on the debate for the first time, saying that what they need to prove is not that trump believed the big lief the election being stolen, but that he knowingly spread associated lies in a criminal scheme to stay in power. joyce vance, what to you make of this? what do you make of jack smith's motion? >> right. so these are fine line legal distinctions about what the government has to prove. the special counsel's position is this, in essence, they're saying, you know, if trump truly believed that the election was stolen, that still didn't entitle him to do what he did. if you believe the bank stole your money, you're not entitled to rob the bank, is the argument here. jack smith is responding to a series of motions that trump filed. four motions seeking to dismiss the indictment against him in washington, d.c., before it ever sees trial. all connected with this motion to strike any mention of january 6th. that motion will fail. the story of january 6th is the story of this case. prosecutors are entitled to bring in that context. smith has made it very clear what his target is, as far as trump is concerned. he knowingly spread the lies, that he knowingly set the country on this course of action that resulted in an effort to interfere with certification of the electoral college vote. i think it's a strong position, as strong as we've seen from the special counsel so far. >> wow. >> so, joyce, we were talking earlier about the importance of -- >> transparency. >> -- transparency. the importance of americans seeing this former president of the united states tried so he can't come out and lie, spread conspiracy theories of what's going on inside the courtroom. you can name one trial after another, whether it's the oj trial, i talked about johnny depp, but there have been very important criminal trials, too. i can think about a certain police officer tried in minneapolis, and how important it was for americans to see that trial from beginning to end. for transparency. not only for the defendant but also to see if the court system was actually upholding the standard of the law the way they should. how important is it for there to be cameras in the courtroom, especially in this d.c. case, which judge chutkan is going to be hearing motions on this friday? >> well, joe, for all of the reasons that you've described, having cameras in the courtroom for a case like this one is critical. you know, i think the minnesota example is a good one. there was so much public controversy surrounding the prosecution of police officers for george floyd's murder. the ability to watch the trial, to see the witnesses for yourself really helped to control community expectations. that verdict was accepted because people saw the evidence. the state courts have had good fortune with cameras in the courtroom. it'll be effective. some of the problems people say will materialize with cameras in the court never materialized. but the federal judicial system remains resistant to cameras in the courtroom. doj has filed a motion opposing cameras, not because they're opposed in principle, but because the law says that cameras aren't permitted in federal court. the judicial conference of the united states has done nothing to change that, despite decades of efforts to do that. on friday, judge chutkan will consider two motions, asking her to permit, if not cameras in the court in real time, some way of permitting the american people to watch this trial. i think we'll all be watching this. this will be an issue that will work through the appellate court. ultimately, it's up to the chief justice and the judicial conference of the united states to make this really long, warranted change. >> former u.s. attorney joyce vance, thank you, as always, for being on the show this morning. still ahead on "morning joe," we're going to go through today's key elections across the country. it's election day. including in virginia, where all 140 seats across the states, two legislative chambers are up for grabs. we'll talk to senator tim kaine about what's at stake for democrats in his stake. . also ahead, we'll ask national security council spokesman john kirby about the conversation between biden and netanyahu surrounding a potential pause in israel's offensive. plus, nick kristof of "the new york times" will join us with his reporting from the west bank. >> it's remarkable. >> extraordinary story. i can't wait to talk to him about him meeting up with friends from the west bank that he'd not spoken with in 41 years. >> you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. 'll be righ. s nation should extend to all from new york to new mexico, from alaska to alabama. but right now, people like you are losing their freedoms. some in power are suppressing voting rights. banning our kids books from libraries and attacking our right to make private health care decisions. we must act now to defend these freedoms and protect our democracy. and we can't do it without you. we are the american civil liberties union, and we're asking you to join us in protecting our democracy at the national level and in communities like yours. call or go online to myaclu.org to become a guardian of liberty today. your gift of just $19 a month. only $0.63 a day will help ensure that together we can continue to fight for the freedoms of all americans, no matter your zip code. if you also believe in the right to vote, the right to free speech, the right to learn, the right to bodily autonomy. please join us now. these are your fundamental rights that people are playing with. and so you need to get involved, because if you don't, then someone else is going to decide whether or not you get to choose what happens to your own body. so please call or go to myaclu.org and become an aclu guardian of liberty for just $19 a month. when you use your credit card, you'll receive this special we the people t-shirt and more to show you're part of a movement to protect the rights of all people. we can't make systemic change in the way that we want to doing it by ourselves. we have to work together because we the people, means all of us. from sea to shining sea. so please call or go online to myaclu.org to become a guardian of liberty today. 22 past the hour. as the war in gaza presses on, there's been a rise in violence between israeli settlers and palestinians in the west bank. the united nations says there has been an average of seven attacks by jewish settlers on west bank palestinians each day since the october 7th hamas terrorist attack. "new york times" columnist nick kristof returned from the west bank, where he reunited with two palestinian men he first met there back in 1982. how their lives and the region have changed in the decades since is the subject of his latest column for the paper entitled "losing hope in the west bank." >> nick, mika and i were so moved by your column. >> incredible. >> i read the opening of it and started it, and you were talking about these two students that you met in 1982 while you were a law student traveling on a local bus in the west bank. then you said, i looked in my old address book. i said, come on, he's not meeting back up with them. but you actually did. you talk about the extraordinary life that you've lived over the how years. you also talked about the life of despair. take us through the process of you meeting up with your two old friends. >> sure. so in1982, when i met sthem, we were full of ambitions. graduate study, travel the world, have fulfilling careers. i thought i'd stay in touch or send a thank you note, so i wrote down their names and addresses. we had a great day together, but i had no idea what had happened to them. i've had this great career. i was able to look them up and find them, partly because, if you are a palestinian refugee in a refugee camp, you're not very mobile. still in the same refugee camp. they were, for that reason, easy to track down. salah wanted to do a phd in egypt in arabic studies. mahmoud wanted to study in spain. they were unable to leave and get the education. they were able to travel anywhere. now, mahmoud can't even go to his doctor in jericho because of all the checkpoints, the barriers. these guys, you know, are not political. they've not been in trouble. they're seething with frustration. they were fired from their jobs as high schoolteachers for somewhat unclear reasons. he violatd curfew and was in jail for 18 days. the soldiers thought he hadn't been aggressive enough in stopping students from throwing rocks. all these dreams were replace replaced by frustration. >> nick, they were victims of political meltdown. i mean, of course, the israelis saw the bus bombings that were happening throughout the '80s. they cracked down on security measures. the united states certainly would have in many cases. >> yup. >> but these two guys that you knew, who, like you said, could go to the beach in israel, could go to tel-aviv, visit for the day, most importantly, go across israel into work, suddenly were locked down. i want to r a part that was jarring. you said, it was wonderful to see them again, but our reunion also was a window into palestinian frustrations. the world has changed so much in four decades. while i've traveled the world and had a fulfilling career, they've remained stateless, stuck in a refugee camp and fearful of israeli settlers and soldiers. worse, they have much less freedom today than when i first met them in 1982. how sad. >> you know, it also had political consequences. they have a much more hostile view toward israel now than they used to. they were completely convinced that the bombing at the -- or the explosion at the hospital in gaza was, which i think was probably caused by an errant palestinian rocket, they are convinced, not only was it an israeli shell but it was a deliberate attack on the hospital. they didn't -- they regretted the killing of civilians by hamas in israel. but, you know, they were also pretty full of their own pain and their former students who had been killed. they didn't have extra bandwidth for israeli pain, just as israelis haven't had bandwidth for palestinian pain. >> so you talk about that conversation, about october 7th, with your two friends, one month ago today, actually. you talk about your own disappointment and frustration, what you heard back from them. they couldn't unequivocally condemn what happened. yes, it was bad but, and everyone jumps to the "but." how did you navigate that conversation? >> so i was pressing them on that point. you know, can't we just agree that it is completely wrong for this to happen to israeli civilians? they acknowledged that it was wrong. we said, you know, we understand that was outrageous. but they felt it was unfair to have that conversation, about one day of horror in israel, when, from their point of view, palestinians are, you know, suffering cumulatively, much greater losses. it was, in many ways -- i mean, there is a symmetry between their pain and self-absorption with that pain, and the way israelis were shattered by what happened october 7th and their focus on their pain. as everybody is so shattered, so absorbed with their pain, they become somewhat indifferent to the other side. both sides agree at this point that the only thing the other side understands is violence. that they're not quite as good as we are. we have to be really tough. it's just -- you know, it's the worst i've seen it in four decades of traveling to the west bank in israel. >> i think you answered my next question. which was, did you come away from this conversation with any hope? in this moment, as you say, both sides have dehumanized the other, there doesn't look like a path in this moment to peace. even as you look over the horizon, it is unclear what that looks like. any signs of hope from your friends? >> not really. i think it will get worse before it gets better. i think there is some possibility that the west bank completely explodes. it's not impossible that jordan does the same. we don't really know how stable jordan is. i mean, if you press me and asked me for a little bit of hope, it might just be that when everything changes, maybe there will be new leadership in israel, new leadership on the palestinian side. right now, neither has a partner for peace. perhaps when everything changes, after things have gotten worse, perhaps some path will emerge. >> katty? >> nick, i've been hearing the same thing, too, from people in the arab world, who said to me over the last few weeks, look, it's clear that the west, and they mean israel and the united states, don't value the lives of palestinian children, don't see them as people or children with parents who love them in the way they value the lives of israeli children. it was striking to me that tony blinken, when he was in israel, made that anecdote, about when he saw children in gaza, he looked at them and saw his own children. do you think a shift, is it too late? can it go somewhere to making palestinians feel they are viewed in people as the way israelis are viewed as people by the united states? is there time to make that up? i'm watching what's happening in gaza and thinking, we're creating a whole generation more of terrorists who have lost people. i'm wondering whether language with make a difference. >> i think you're right. both president biden and tony blinken have tried to show a little more compassion for palestinian children dying. i do think that it's late and it came after, you know, standing beside netanyahu and, frankly, showing, initially, not very much compassion. there did seem, initially, to be kind of a hierarchy of lives, and the palestinian children's lives seemed to be somewhat less valued than those on the israeli side. i think that change in language is welcome, but i think that it is hard to see how that competes with images coming out of gaza every day with videos of, you know, an 8-year-old boy having his foot amputated on the floor of a gaza hospital without adequate anesthetic. i think, you know, and this is going to continue for who knows how long. i just think minds are being poisoned on both sides. as you say, that creates people who want to grow up and become shaheed, become martyrs. >> yes. nick, you end your piece with this reflection. i remembered two young men full of promise and warmth, animated by hope and inhabiting a world in which israelis and palestinians interacted regularly and didn't much fear each other. it is wrenching to see such change. as saleh and mahmoud became dads and grandfathers, they were shorn of a future, of vitality, of hope. and that, i think, is the core of the palestinian problem. "new york times" columnist nick kristof, thank you very much for telling your story and for writing this. we appreciate it. >> thank you. >> thanks for coming on this morning. coming up, white house national security council coordinator john kirby joins the conversation. we'll discuss the tactical pause in fighting considered by israel and the disturbing and growing trend of attacks on u.s. military bases overseas. that's coming up next on "morning joe." director at independence village, the senior living community in waukee, iowa. everybody here really, really make you feel like family and that they love you. our goal with tiktok was to enrich the lives of our residents and just to be able to show people what senior living can be like. i think i am a tiktok grandma. my kids think i am. i mean, we're the ones that are being entertained. time goes faster when you're having fun. governor reynolds, do you believe trump can't win? >> i believe he can't win, and i believe ron can, which is a big reason i got behind him. you will see the media shift and come at him. with the narrative we're seeing now, it's not going to be the narrative that he is the candidate moving forward. it's not going to be. that's all there is to it, he can't win. i also believe we are living in unprecedented times. as a mother and as a grandmother and as an american, i just felt like i couldn't sit on the sidelines any longer. we have too much at stake. our country is in a world of hurt. the world is a powder keg. i think it's just really important that we put the right person in office. >> that was iowa governor kim reynolds speaking exclusively with nbc news about what led to her endorsement of florida governor ron desantis, and why she believes donald trump cannot win the general election. here's what governor kim reynolds told a crowd in des moines yesterday. >> someone who calls out our moral decline for what it is, who looks to the future and not the past, someone who, most importantly, can win, and that person is ron desantis. [ applause ] and it is why i am so proud to stand here tonight and give him my full support and endorsement for president of the united states of america! >> donald trump accused governor reynolds of being disloyal in this and that her endorsement of desantis would be the end of her political career. governor desantis weighed in on trump's tactics in securing political support. >> it's almost like with donald trump, if you don't kiss the ring, you could be the best governor ever and he'll trash you. you could be a terrible, corrupt politician, but if you kiss him his ring, he'll praise you. i had people say they endorsed him because of the threats. that's not how i roll, but it is how he rolls. but, look, at the end of the day, if you can look in the mirror and say you did what you think is right for the right reasons, then just let the chips fall where they may. >> jonathan lemire, what do you make of this endorsement? also, i just wonder why this republican field, they just never actually go directly after donald trump. they kind of talk around him, and i wonder if that could be, in some ways, nonproductive. >> i think there's no question that was a miscalculation. their fear of alienating trump's base, they need the voters, but there's a way, some believe, they could have attacked him even if his policies were painted as unelectable. they could have made the case. instead, they've barely laid a glove on him. certainly, we see trump's strength in the polls. i mean, desantis has his campaign struggling. he has put everything he has on iowa. you know, he needs to do well there. he's well down in the polls. it's hard to really see the trajectory of the race changing at all. governor reynolds, though, we should point out, is popular in iowa. she could help. she certainly won't hurt trump tomorrow when he skips the debate tomorrow and has a counter event, unveiling sarah huckabee sanders, in arkansas, seen as a rising star in the party. some in trump world are annoyed at sanders, that it took her this long to back her former boss. what do you think here? do you see anything shaking up the race in iowa and beyond? >> look, it's really hard. i mean, could polls move? they have. they did a little bit before barack obama was elected in that long running race with hillary clinton. she was way ahead of him. 20 points ahead of him at the end of 2007. he went on to win the nomination. it's that the polls are so consistently putting donald trump ahead and by such a big margin. even bigger than the margins by which hillary clinton was ahead of barack obama at this stage in the 2008 election. i don't really -- yes, kim reynolds is popular. does it change the race that much? it's just very hard. it's really hard to see at this point, anything other than donald trump being the nominee, i think. >> all right. still ahead, it is election day in america. that means steve kornacki will join us at the big board. we'll discuss the key races to watch as voting is now under way. plus, democratic senators tim kaine and richard blumenthal will be our guests ahead. first, we'll talk to white house national security council coordinator john kirby, as the israel-hamas war enters a new phase. "morning joe" will be right back. i have moderate to severe crohn's disease. now, there's skyrizi. ♪ things are looking up, i've got symptom relief. ♪ ♪ control of my crohn's means everything to me. ♪ ♪ control is everything to me. ♪ feel significant symptom relief at 4 weeks with skyrizi, including less abdominal pain and fewer bowel movements. skyrizi is the first il-23 inhibitor that can deliver remission and visibly improve damage of the intestinal lining. and the majority of people experienced long-lasting remission at one year. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine or plan to. liver problems may occur in crohn's disease. ♪ now's the time to ask your gastroenterologist how you can take control of your crohn's with skyrizi. ♪ ♪ control is everything to me. ♪ ♪ learn how abbvie could help you save. liberty mutual customized my car insurance and i saved hundreds. with the money i saved, i started a dog walking business. oh. [dog barks] no it's just a bunny! only pay for what you need. ♪liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty.♪ we're travelling all across america, talking to people about their hearts. ooh, take this exit. how's the heart? i feel like it's good. you feel like it's good? how do you know when it's time to check in on your heart? how do you know? let me show you something. it looks like a credit card, but it is the kardiamobile card. that is a medical-grade ekg. want to see how it works? yeah. put both thumbs on there. that is your heart coming from the kardiamobile card. wow! with kardiamobile card, you can take a medical-grade ekg in just 30 seconds, from anywhere. kardiamobile card is proven to detect atrial fibrillation, one of the leading causes of stroke. and it's the only personal ekg that's fda-cleared to detect normal heart rhythm, bradycardia and tachycardia. how much do you think that costs? probably $500. $99. oh, really? you could carry that in your wallet. of course you could carry it in your wallet, right? yes, yes. get a jump on the holidays. kardiamobile card is now just $89. don't wait! buy kardiamobile card for yourself or a loved one today at kardia.com or amazon. live picture of the famous rink outside our building at rockefeller plaza. 7:47 in the morning. ringed in american flags on this election day in america. there have been at least ten more attempted attacks on u.s. military bases overseas just since thursday. that's according to three u.s. defense officials who spoke to nbc news. it brings the total number of attacks on american bases to 38 since october 17th. we're learning at least 45 americans have reported various degrees of brain injury stemming from the attacks. that's more than twice the number previous disclosed. nbc news reports the attacks mostly have been one-way drone and rocket strikes launched by groups believed to have links to iran. joining us now, national security council coordinator for strategic communications tat at the white house, retired admiral kirby. i had to read it twice to see if it was true. 38 attacks on american bases just in the last three weeks. can you speak to the extent of the attacks, the response to the attacks, and who is behind them? >> well, as for the extent of the attacks, what we know is none have been effective. they've fallen short or, if they got close or even inside the perimeter of one of our facilities, that there was no significant damage done. no injuries caused as a result, at least not now. as you rightly noted, some of those soldiers a reporting traumatic brain injury. sometimes the symptoms take a little time to show up. we'll keep watching after those folks and see if, in fact, symptoms do sort of surface here in coming days. as for who is responsible, i think while we can't pinpoint a certain group on a certain day at this point, obviously, these attacks are all coming from these militia groups that are backed by the irgc, the revolutionary guard corps in tehran. we know that for a fact. we'll do what we have to do to defen our troo defend our troops and facilities. >> just because it was a lame attack and fell short remains an attack on american troops. what kind of response is the american government prepared to offer as these continue? >> well, if and when we choose to respond, willie, we're going to do that in a manner and a time of our own choosing, as we have shown that we will do. we've done it before. we'll do that going forward. >> admiral, jonathan lemire. good to see you again this morning. could you talk to us a little more about the phone call which is the latest in a series of conversations between president biden and prime minister netanyahu, particularly on the idea of these humanitarian pauses? can you give us a sense as to what pause the president proposed and what the prime minister, if anything, agreed to? >> well, jonathan, without getting into too much of the detail of the phone call, it is certainly accurate to say that president biden biden brought up the idea of humanitarian pauses with the prime minister. secretary blinken was just there a couple of days ago, also brought up this idea of humanitarian pauses. while i can't say there was a agreement of date, time but there was a strong expression by the united states that humanitarian pauses is something that we should be considering. that includes our hostages. on abc news last night prime minister netanyahu acknowledged himself he's open to that idea. >> admiral, in recent days, some extensive reporting in in "the new york times" and elsewhere that shows administration officials with a frustration with israel, they have not accepted much in the way of american guidance and how to conduct this offensive in gaza, can you give us a sense just as to what the white house feels right now of what israel is doing in gaza. >> we want to let them speak to their military. they have obviously entered into some ground operations in and around gaza city with the idea of putting pressure on the hamas leadership. they went in more of targeted. they went with smaller units for the discreet for putting pressure on the hamas terrorists with the added goal and prime minister netanyahu said this last night if they can't get pressure enough to release the hostages. they're still conducting air strikes. we continue to talk to them on a near-daily basis, managing their operations in a way that civilian casualties can be minimized. but we're not providing targeting for them. we're not involved in the planning and execution of these operations and it's not about things we're giving them, it's perspective. the lessons learned of our own warfare in fallujah and mosul. >> when you see to leaders of countries that have been more friendly to israel for example are cently, how much pressure do they feel they're under? >> secretary blinken just wrapped up yesterday a trip to the region and we spent a lot of time with his arab partners and leaders throughout the region. they were very candid and forth right with their concerns. the secretary made clear to them that we have expressed our concerns again to our israeli counterparts as well as secretary blinken said it's not just what you do but how you do it. that matters. they're not shy leaders, they're willing and able to express their feelings and we know, katy. >> we'll talk to you again soon. we appreciate it. they'll discuss a path forward to tommy tuberville's hold on promotions. the senator tuberville is facing backlash from in his own party. according to list obtained by nbc news, there are total of 115 nominations on their docket. on the other side of the aisle, a group of senate democrats is pushing a temporary change in senate process that would allow the senate to confirm hundreds of military promotions in one vote. democrats are still working to garner enough republican support for the resolution which would require 60 votes. we'll follow that and still ahead, in the next hour of "morning joe," donald trump's combative day in court. spent hours on the stand testifying in the new york civil fraud trial with the future of the trump organization on the line. we'll have analysis of what happened in court. that's coming up. in the next hour of morning joe. . hi, my name is damion clark. if you have both medicare and medicaid, i have some really encouraging news that you'll definitely want to hear. depending on the plans available in your area, you may be eligible to get extra benefits with a humana medicare advantage dual-eligible special needs plan. all of these plans include a healthy options allowance, a monthly allowance to help pay for eligible groceries, utilities, rent, and over-the-counter items. the healthy options allowance is loaded onto a prepaid card each month. and whatever you don't spend, carries over from each month. other benefits on these plans include free rides to and from your medical appointments. and our large networks of doctors, hospitals and pharmacies. so, call the number on your screen now and ask about a humana medicare advantage dual-eligible special needs plan. humana. a more human way to healthcare. -dad, what's with your toenail? -oh, that...? i'm not sure... -it's a nail fungus infection. -...that's gross! -it's nothing, really... -it's contagious. you can even spread it to other people. -mom, come here! -don't worry about it. it'll go away on its own! -no, it won't go away on its own. it's an infection. you need a prescription. nail fungus is a contagious infection. at the first signs, show it to your doctor... ... and ask if jublia is right for you. jublia is a prescription medicine used to treat toenail fungus. its most common side effects include ingrown toenail, application site redness... ... itching, swelling, burning or stinging, blisters and pain. jublia is recognized by the apma. most commercially insured patients may pay as little as $0 copay. go to jubliarx.com now to get started. what was it like before viasat satellite internet? two words: not fun. times up. sharing's caring! but now with viasat's new plans, we have plenty of internet. for everyone! learn more about our plans at viasat.com c'mon, we're right there. c'mon baby. we have plenty of internet. for everyone! it's the only we need. go, go, go, go! ah! touchdown baby! -touchdown! are your neighbors watching the same game? yeah, my 5g home internet delays the game a bit. but you get used to it. try these. they're noise cancelling earmuffs. i stole them from an airport. it's always something with you, man. great! solid! -greek salad? exactly! don't delay the game with verizon or t-mobile 5g home internet. catch it on the xfinity 10g network. >> all right, welcome to "morning joe." november 7th. lot to get to this morning. something with star wars. >> willie, i was worried that she was going to say "star trek." >> thank goodness she said "star wars." >> before we get to the start of this -- >> for a lot of jets -- fans, willie, the situation at quarterback, it gets no better, in fact much, much worse. >> they lost last night. i guess it was too late for the tabloids. they lost 27-6, just no offense to speak of, it's a shame if you watched the game. they is a great defense but they're on the game for the entire game. and it's bad in new york right now between the jets, the giants losing their quarterback, zach wilson, they're trying to prop him up and ways to succeed, it's just not happening. >> it started to look out of a loss season on both fronts. >> i'm really surprised that the jets didn't move for somebody at the trade deadline, a quarterback that could keep them in contention because there were several out there. look, credible what happened this weekend, you had, a quarterback who played -- was it dobbs who played for the cardinals? >> yes. >> who got traded and turned the game around and won, but the jets had a chance, didn't do it, so it just keeps uglier. >> they were 4-3 going into that game last night, they're only a game out of first place in their division which is staggering considering what they've been through this season. >> that's what mika said last night. >> sure. then "star trek" marathon. we have a lot to get to -- we're going to have expert legal analysis on another contentious day in court for donald trump former president testifying in the civil fraud trial for his business organization. it was a lot. let me tell you, yikes. you can't hold back. he was not happy and the judge asked his lawyers to control their client. >> whoa. he looks like a character out of "star wars" there. >> anyhow i can't wait to ask our experts ahead of how any other defendant abouted this way. israeli prime minister netanyahu continues to reject calls for a cease-fire, but appears to be open to strategic pauses. >> president biden continues to talk about the need to have humanitarian breaks in this, to allow civilians to continue to move out, to protect civilians on the ground, netanyahu pushing back on it. >> very complicated. >> but they're right now talking about, quote, strategic pauses. >> we shall see. >> for the hostages and also for the gaza civilians. plus -- it's election day in america, a big one, we'll break down some of the key races across the country and why they matter. >> you know, willie, everybody's been talking about these polls and really they don't matter other than a snapshot in time, right, and so we can see the trend lines are breaking against the biden white house, they should be scared as hell. voters shouldn't be, if they support joe biden, register and vote. these elections tonight, they do matter, they have shown over the -- during the trump era, they have shown republican failures in 17 led to republican failures and 18 republican failures if the off off years in '19. same with '21 republicans are on a seven-year losing streak, interesting whether they can snap that tonight. the state of kentucky, the incumbent democrat governor beshear is running against republican attorney general daniel cameron. donald trump has endorsed daniel cameron, both these guys viewed as stars in the party with big futures ahead of them. fascinating to see which way that breaks with donald trump coming into that way with the support of the republican. the virginia race, telling to see what happens. katty kay, the legislative races in northern virginia a senate seat, especially that matters, also i know you, mika and i are looking at the ohio abortion referendum, that's going to be a fascinating insight to see where voters are in a red, red state. >> yeah, both virginia and ohio are going to be a reflection of how much momentum there is on the abortion side. democrats still hoping that abortion can mitigate some of the bad polling for joe biden on the age front and the economy front. i spent a lot of time in northern virginia, i'm out there two, three days a week and one of the key districts, district 31, a race for the state senate, a they're been yard signs up for months, yard signs on both sides, a lot for the democrat perry and a lot for the republican candidate -- hard to see that one candidate has more up than other. for an off-year election i haven't seen this much enthusiasm in a long time. >> jonathan, we have seen especially since dobbs, just a political earthquake, we've soon it in kansas and in kentucky, we've seen it in wisconsin and one red state after another, one state that trump won in '16 after another, it's going to be fascinating to see what happens tonight again in ohio and virginia, especially in northern virginia, and in those sub ushs, of course if beshear can defy political gravity and win, democrats will see that as a massive victory of course, but i got to believe the white house, i mean, they're not knocking on wood, throwing salt over their left shoulder, they're doing everything, because a democratic win tonight in a lot of these races, a lot of these states will completely wipe away any talk of one "the new york times"/siena college spate of polls, but i say if republicans and i'll be saying this tomorrow morning, if republicans win for the first time since 2016, then it really be time for the biden white house to batten down the hatches and get ready for a storm ahead. >> number of democrats said a version of the same thing to me yesterday. what we've seen in the post-2016 era what happens, democrats actually win elections, we saw that with the midterms in 2022 and we've seen that in a number of the special elections since then and certainly abortion rights is a big part of that, so yes, there's lot of concern among democrats right now, a lot of second-guessing to biden campaign strategy to this point, they've not gone after donald trump as hard as they could have had. they have not attacked him and trump maintaining a massive lead, but things could change today, the narrative heading in one year out could change on a number of levels. virginia expected to be close, abortion rights is a big part of that and then ohio, people i've talked to think abortion will get a victory in ohio. as we look at these battle ground state polls, abortion, choice is going to be such a major issue next year, too. >> you know, these elections can either underscore what these "the new york times"/siena college poll -- political experts in the past couple of days who have said, joe biden, maybe shouldn't run, why don't wait for real evidence? isn't this election day the outcome of it, sort of great sign of where things are going as opposed to a poll. >> it certainly is. some people -- david axelrod has been critical of joe biden for years, for years, and certainly david, a friend of ours, truth is, though, he's always been critical of joe biden, also second-guessing, so there are people who are second-guessing him. i would say, what david axelrod is saying out loud, there's no doubt about it, joe biden was doubted when he first announced in 2019, he was doubted throughout 2019, he was mocked and doubted after iowa and he was mocked and doubted after new hampshire and he was mocked and doubted after nevada. then, south carolina came. he swept through. he won. he was too old. he was running from the basement. no way he'd beat donald trump. he was too old. 2022, we were supposed to have a red wave, instead it was an extraordinary night for democrats. historic night for joe biden, the first president since fdr, first-term president, whose midterm election went the way it did, you can keep going on and on about -- then after that, maybe he's good, no, he's too old. he delivers a state of the union address, so, again, joe biden's been underestimated his entire life and he's being underestimated now. this is not a smart bet to bet against him, but if people want to they can, that's their right. following up on what jonathan just said, the biden white house is actually debating whether joe biden should attack donald trump or not. this reminds me of 1988. and michael dukakis saying, i'm not going to answer those bush attacks, saying i'm unpatriotic while he's going flag factories all over the country. and dukakis just kept mowing his lawn saying, i'm not going to answer those attacks. you got to answer those attacks. like whoever inside the white house is telling joe biden not to attack donald trump, stop it. seriously, stop it. all right, and maybe start a lawn service with push lawn mowers. but you don't know what you're doing and talking about and you're costing the president. you really are. you're costing him points. this is a political battle to the end, donald trump is trying to destroy joe biden. i'm not exactly sure, willie, who inside the white house is saying, hey, when you go up against the champ, mike tyson in '91, muhammad ali in like '73, you should fight by marcus of queensbury rule, no, you got to go after him. no-holds-barred. they're trying to debate. do we play nice or take it to the guy who stole nuclear secrets, accused of being rapist by a new york judge and has 91 felony counts against him charged. it's not hard. i don't think this is hard. i'm not sure who inside the white house is making this hard. >> well, it goes without saying that donald trump isn't going to fight fair, he's going to nuclear wherever he has the chance. he did yesterday outside the courthouse. we'll run on our record. you can do both. the economy is pretty good, here's why. you can also say the guy i'm running against might tear down the democracy. two things at once. speaking of the former president, yesterday, he defended his actions as head of the trump organization yesterday at the civil fraud trial in new york. nbc news senior legal correspondent laura jarrett has more on trump's testimony. >> reporter: a combative donald trump testifying for hours inside a manhattan courtroom with his real estate empire on the line. showing flashes of anger as he sparred with the judge and the new york attorney general's office, brushing off accusations that he doctored financial statements to inflate the value of some of his well-known properties, all to defraud banks and lenders. >> at the end of the day the only thing that matters are the facts and the numbers and numbers, my friends, don't lie. >> reporter: already found liable for fraud the former president now trying to fend off a $250 million penalty, growing heated when pressed about whether he overvalued assets found in organization's annual financial statement. his face turning red, raising his voice, pointing directly at the judge, yelling he called me a fraud and he didn't know anything about me. a reference to the judge's pre-trial decision that ruled in state's favor and also going after the attorney general herself, watching on in the courtroom, donald trump calling her a political hack. >> i won't be bullied. i won't be harassed. this case will go on. >> reporter: donald trump did make some concessions admitting he probably saw some of the disputed financial statements that went to banks and lenders and dismissing them as not important with disclaimers. >> much greater on the financial statement, we have already proven that. mar-a-lago is worth $18 million. it's worth probably 50 to 100 times more than that. >> reporter: the judge tested by that, calling parts of mr. trump's irrelevant and rambling. warning the republican front runner this is not a political rayly. let's bring in nbc news analyst. and chuck rosenberg. catherine, as defenses go, my accountants did it, is that convincing or compelling? >> not a good defense, because accountants rely on information from their clients. if the information is false the tax returns are going to be false because the client gave false information. trump's testimony yesterday did nothing to help his case, he was speaking to his base, to appease his base, but nothing he said helped his case. >> what about the his tonics, back and forth with the judge, turning to mr. trump's attorneys saying get control of this guy or i will. the attorneys have no control over donald trump. how does that play into the outcome of what we're seeing here? >> first, it was not a jury trial, if the jury had been in that courtroom the judge would have shut him down, you can't hear jury hear inadmissible evidence. at the beginning the judge was engaging and getting upset, at one point, et let him go, he's the judge and he's the trier of the fact, so if donald trump wants to annoy the judge let him do it. >> and mika, what it looks on the front page of the wall street journal. then, actually a view inside the courtroom and "the new york times" takes us through the key players. but, you turn it over, and the story talks about how donald trump admitted that he actually was involved in some of the conduct that is at the heart of the case. >> so that's my question for chuck rosenberg, donald trump walked out and got lots of cameras clicking and rolling as he was saying things went very well in court today, so, did they go well, did he have a good day in court yesterday? >> mika, they didn't go well in court not for mr. trump, but look, he's functioning, operating in two different venues, in court he did poorly, his answers were rambling and incoherent, to the e extent he's not answering questions the judge can infer that the answers wouldn't be helpful to the donald trump. the judge is trier of the facts. if you asked me, did i steal a cookie from the cookie jar and i tell you that you're deranged and you're a fraud, it's a witch-hunt, i think you can logically conclude that i stole the cookie from the cookie jar. but there's another venue, outside the courtroom and for his supporters and his base, the combative trump is what they love and what they saw and what they got, legally no, it was a bit of train wreck, politically time will tell. >> chuck, he was even saying at one point, i hope the public is watching, very aware of the fact that this has a tv audience who might vote for him. for future trials and how can judges prevent this same spectacle from becoming an extension of donald trump's political campaign. >> great question, so, there was no jury in this particular case. and so the judge can hear irrelevant answers and ignore them and still make a decision on the merits which i trust this judge will do, if a jury was a trier of the fact, the judge would have had to really contain mr. trump much more than he did, look i grew up as a federal prosecutor in a district where i don't believe any of the judges would have permitted this nonsense, and so, a trial in front of a jury, number one, katty can look very different than a trial in front of a judge, by the way, in the criminal case, i think it's highly unlikely that he even gets on the stand, so all this nonsense, all this rambling and this incohearns, the stuff you saw in a civil case in front of a judge, is not something that i think you're likely to see in a criminal case in front of jury. >> jonathan, it's a real split screen we've been observing over the past six months or so, where you have donald trump who, again, hurting himself legally, hurting himself in front of judges, time and time again, but in many cases that's helping him politically, the wall street journal lead editorial will donald trump be indicted back into office, they cite an article that was in politico last week that said was going to use these trials against him, court cases against him, of the four ads, none of them moved any persuadables and two of them made their persuadables break more toward donald trump. even while donald trump is blowing his businesses up in the court of law, the rambing that we see outside is actually connecting politically, so, we may have a guy who loses his businesses, a guy who's fined $250 million and can't afford to pay it, a guy who ends up indicted and convicted in the washington case and a guy who's still the odds-on favorite to be the next president of the united states. >> trump has been very effective at weaponizing these criminal cases and the civil case to rally his supporters and republicans, polls show some republicans on the fence about trump have come back to him because of these prosecutions but we should note those much discussed "the new york times" polls over the weekend, if trump were to convicted in one of these that would cause his support to drop about six points in each state. giving them back to president biden. again short-term help here for the primaries. trump was on the stand yesterday, he may come back. the defense team could call him as well as early as next week. do you think that will happen and what do you think they'll try to accomplish by bringing a pretty erratic client. >> if he comes back as their witness, the prosecutors, a.g.'s office will get to cross examine him. it will continue to hurt his case here. >> in fact, he was asked about a financial statement from 2021 and he said, i was busy working on china and russia keeping our country safe. to which the state said, you weren't president in 2021. how quickly might this wrapped up. >> tomorrow, ivanka trump is testifying and the attorney general said she'll be their last witness and then the defense case and donald trump's will have his witness. he'll have a bank, from deutsche bank come. >> thanks so much. we appreciate it. mika. coming up, steve kornacki is at the big board on this election day, he'll preview the big races and what they can tell us about next year's battle for the white house. "morning joe" is back in a moment. back in a moment ♪♪ with fastsigns, brew signature flavor into every sip and sign. ♪♪ fastsigns. make your statement. only sleep number smart beds let you each choose your individual firmness and comfort. ♪♪ your sleep number setting. and actively cools and warms up to 13 degrees on either side. and now, save 40% on the sleep number special edition smart bed. ends monday. shop for a limited time. only at sleep number. so i think it's pretty significant that my ancestors were once enslaved here and now we own this property. our farm has been here for over 158 years. passed down over three generations. what i learned from my father was hard work and dedication. it's what was instilled in me. it taught me how to really appreciate the land that we work on, and how important it is that i'd be able to carry that legacy onto the next generation. farms like mine are innovating, and creating jobs in the community, and joe biden gets that. the biden administration is building us the infrastructure that we need. expanding high speed internet, investing in rural communities. to have a president that understands the value of what we do, that means everything to me. with joe biden and kamala harris, i'm building a better life for my family and future generations. i'm joe biden and i approve this message. ♪everything i do that's for my health is an accomplishment.♪ ♪concerns of getting screened faded away♪ ♪to my astonishment.♪ ♪my doc gave me a script i got it done without a delay.♪ ♪i screened with cologuard and did it my way.♪ cologuard is a one-of-a-kind way to screen for colon cancer that's effective and non-invasive. it's for people 45 plus at average risk, not high risk. false positive and negative results may occur. ask your provider for cologuard. ♪i did it my way!♪ (tony hawk) skating for over 45 years has taken a toll on my body. ask your provider for cologuard. i take qunol turmeric because it helps with healthy joints and inflammation support. why qunol? it has superior absorption compared to regular turmeric. qunol. the brand i trust. today marks one month since hamas terrorists attacked israel and israeli forces are advancing their ground operation. yesterday, israel pounded the region with air strikes. officials say they hit 450 targets, killing a number of hamas commanders. casualies are expected to rise sharply once the war turns to close urban combat. troops are expected to enter gaza city soon. meanwhile in phone call yesterday with israeli prime minister netanyahu, president biden mentioned possible tactical pauses, saying they would allow time for more aid to enter gaza and let civilians safely leave the territory. the white house says it could also help with hostage negotiation, shortly after that call, netanyahu appeared on abc news for his first televised interview since the terrorist attack, here's what he had to say about the notion a o cease-fire. >> there will be no cease-fire, general cease-fire in gaza without the release of our hostages. as far as tactical pauses we've had them before, i suppose we'll check the circumstances in order to enable the goods, humanitarian goods to come in, or hostages, individual hostages to leave. i don't think there's going to be a general cease-fire. it will hamper our effort to get our hostages out, because the only thing that works on these criminals and hamas is the military pressure that we're exerting. >> joining us now president emeri 2ushgs s on the council of foreign relations. richard haass. >> conversations that we've had and the financial times column that we read, that peggy noonan wrote for the wall street journal over the weekend and something you wrote last week, about the man we just saw there, benjamin netanyahu, and the question is, how we move forward as israel's closest ally and how we have other allies move forward with a man running israel, a man that not only the world community doesn't trust but far more importantly, the israeli people don't trust -- benjamin netanyahu said right there, i think a lot of people would agree with, the fact that he's messenger and he's not taking actions without trying to resurrect his own political career, almost negates the message itself, you know, the message -- the medium is the message and in this case, nobody has any confidence in netanyahu. >> look, it's true. in china, you have the expression mandate of heaven. he's lost the mandate of heaven. he's not trust td or respected by a lot of the israeli people. one way to be removed is by the israeli parliament, he can replaced, or future elections. the only real thing is to see if the israelis decide to remove him. we could control our policy towards him. what i would suggest that the united states ought to become more forceful. he's not a partner in many ways. we're probably stuck with him for the foreseeable future. >> we have to be more forceful and more forceful because if you talk to, and i have, high-ranking members of the trump administration, i've talked to them recently, i've talked to people in the biden administration, i mean, the problem is that what we learned a month ago is how much the israelis depend on the united states in so many ways. we have to have a say and we have to be able to say what you were talking about which is, yes, we'll defend israel's right to exist, yes, we'll support you, as you go to root out and destroy hamas. yes, we'll help you fight to get the hostages back. but no, we will not sit back meekly while you allow radical slters in the west bank to run around, hunt down palestinians and shoot them, thereby creating a situation, richard, where we may have israel fighting hamas, hezbollah to the north and palestinians in the west bank, they're making the situation -- they're making a horrible situation worse unless they get control of the extremists in the west bank and netanyahu has never done that. >> 100% right. but those people are critical to his political coalition right now. it also undermines the fight against hamas. what we need to show, israelis need to show, there's an alternative path to the political aspirations and that means, no settler violence, no more new settlements, opening up, building up the capacity of the palestinian authority in the west bank, moving towards a palestinian state there, you have to show that the path to palestinian political success is not hamas violence. it's something else. but the israelis keep undermining the something else so as a result hamas has a monopoly on palestinian politics. that's outrageous. >> your latest substack pick, a third option for israel, quote, what would this third option require? israel's military effort would be recast as long term and low intensity rather than short term and intense, israel would need to forego military strikes that likely result in casualties. settler violence would be reined in and dreams of transfer of palestinians out of occupied territories would be jettisoned. i expect much of this would be unacceptable to net wrap hue, israel's embattled prime minister. it would be up to israel's parliament to replace him or the israeli public to elect someone prepared to back something along the lines of this third option. i expect this would only have a chance of happening if president biden were to become a strong advocate for such an israeli policy. >> with netanyahu out, a government out where he's placed extremists in the cabinet that basically were so obsessed with the west bank, that they didn't see october 7th coming and so you have that tragedy as well. so, my god, actually getting confident people back in the cabinet, instead of people whose only focus is on as being as extreme as possible, keep netanyahu in office. richard, your third option is also more possible now, because israel has cornered off gaza, it's cut in half, you can conduct the low intensity urban warfare without the continued dropping of bombs. at the rate they've been dropping them. >> yeah, i think the israelis have to get rid of the notion going in big and doing this fast is the answer. i understand why bibi netanyahu wants to do, he wants to undo the failures of october 7th. not the way you successfully conduct an operation. he's talking about israeli occupation of gaza. lot of israelis i fear soldiers are going to get killed. and again, who are they going hand it off? when you go into these things, it's one thing to enter a hostile territory, it's something else to govern and hand it off to something better that can survive. i don't see a strategy on israel's side about what comes next, what comes the morning after, because the palestinian authority, the arab world the u.n., none of these have the will and the capability to run gaza and none of them are going to allow israel to midwife this political process, it will undermine any legitimacy it has. i don't understand what the israelis are embarking on here. coming up, one of our next guests represents a big battle ground in today's off-year elections. senator tim kaine joins the conversation. that conversation is just ahead on "morning joe." on "morning joe. the power goes out and we still have wifi to do our homework. and that's a good thing? great in my book! who are you? no power? no problem. introducing storm-ready wifi. now you can stay reliably connected through power outages with unlimited cellular data and up to 4 hours of battery back-up to keep you online. only from xfinity. home of the xfinity 10g network. coming up, a facebook whistle-blower is set to appear on capitol hill about the dangers of social media. we'll talk to senator richard blummenthal who's chairing that. mark zurichberg revealed that he tore his achilles heel, training for mma fight, apparently there was a coffee table in the way. the way the promise of this nation should extend to all from new york to new mexico, from alaska to alabama. but right now, people like you are losing their freedoms. some in power are suppressing voting rights. banning our kids books from libraries and attacking our right to make private health care decisions. we must act now to defend these freedoms and protect our democracy. and we can't do it without you. we are the american civil liberties union, and we're asking you to join us in protecting our democracy at the national level and in communities like yours. call or go online to myaclu.org to become a guardian of liberty today. your gift of just $19 a month. only $0.63 a day will help ensure that together we can continue to fight for the freedoms of all americans, no matter your zip code. if you also believe in the right to vote, the right to free speech, the right to learn, the right to bodily autonomy. please join us now. these are your fundamental rights that people are playing with. and so you need to get involved, because if you don't, then someone else is going to decide whether or not you get to choose what happens to your own body. so please call or go to myaclu.org and become an aclu guardian of liberty for just $19 a month. when you use your credit card, you'll receive this special we the people t-shirt and more to show you're part of a movement to protect the rights of all people. we can't make systemic change in the way that we want to doing it by ourselves. we have to work together because we the people, means all of us. from sea to shining sea. so please call or go online to myaclu.org to become a guardian of liberty today. liberty mutual customized my car insurance and i saved hundreds. with the money i saved, i started a dog walking business. oh. [dog barks] no it's just a bunny! only pay for what you need. ♪liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty.♪ ♪♪ one of the most famous movie scenes of all time. director stanley kubick portraying the evolution of man in 2001 space odyssey. what's missing from that story of evolution, females. our next guest wondered that when she watched the movie as a young girl and it helped her inspired her lifetime. how the female body drove 200 million years of human evolution and it's great to have you on this show. so tell us about the inspiration of the book and who is it for, really -- not necessarily for scientist and it's not. no, although scientists do read it and get many new things out of it which has been fun. no, it's actually for people who have bodies, which turns out are all of us. yeah, it's a funny thing about that movie scene, where are the females? are they over behind the hill? while i build a future of the species in my body. it's cool, it's cool. i'm just a side character apparently. no, it really drove that initial interest that we need to re-tell this story. we do, we do. because females matter. >> so, tell us how you re-tell it but what we can learn about our bodies in this story and what are what are the other important messages you're sending to the rest of the world about this. >> absolutely. the first thing we need to know is that females are under studies and under cared for in every scenario you can imagine from basic research to research which determines which drugs we take. it's a major problem. however, it's starting to change. some excellent scientists are doing very good work to determine why night shift is so hard for females who do it and not the males so much. why it is that the opioid drugs that we take, we need more of them if we're female to have that same level of pain relief. and why it is that pregnancy sucks so much. >> tell me about the night shift. i did a version of the night shift including an overnight shift for my entire career and i've always wondered about this. >> biologically female people are exquisitely tied to the circadian cycle in ways that guys are a little bit less so, actually. thousands of different genes even in our liver cells are expressed differently according to our sex but also according to what time of day it is. so that's exactly why so many females on the night shift have problems with fertility actually, more so than the guys. >> yeah. that makes so much sense. katty kay is with us. you have a question for cat? >> i have lots of questions for cat. i'm thinking we need to put those night shifts behind us. we've been speaking about that this morning about getting up at 3:30 in the morning. 80% of people who are over 100 in the world are women. why? >> because the female body is better at not dying. that's actually the whole story of menopause. still not dead. slightly more health issues, a little more frail, but not dead. that's what menopause is all about. females are slightly more resilient to aging. that's the future of gerantology. human men have a predictable slope of decline in their hearing. the higher end of their hearing, the higher registers start to drop off over time. of course, because we have higher pitched voices, that means they're literally not hearing us as well starting at age 25. by the time they reach middle age, they're barely hearing our voices as well. >> when you put these facts together, how much does policy change? it drives me crazy, for example, that podiums are clearly built for men, that office temperatures are built for male bodies and not for women's bodies, which is why i'm wearing a coat now because i'm freezing in this studio. what kind of policies are going to change because of the research now being done on female bodies? >> we're going to better enroll females in our medical research. we're going to be more conscious about some of the different shifts that happen over the course of our life span and when we need to be sensitive to that. and we're going to have to get back on reproductive rights because that's a problem and it's a deeply ancient part of our history. >> cat, i'm scared to ask this question, but you also talk about how parts of the male body are boring. >> are you scared to ask because you feel the same? >> i'm not sure why. >> it's absolutely the case that human male genitalia is significantly less exciting than for other mammals it may be should be. but the interesting part about that is it may be indicates that we actually had more pair bonding and less male/male competition in our deep evolutionary past. we were in a word not that rapey in our history. that doesn't tell us why so much suffering is happening now. it does remove the idea that it's something that's just natural for people who have penises. >> that's fascinating. the new book "eve, how the female body drove 200 million years of human evolution." thank you so much and congratulations on the book. it's fascinating. >> thank you. still ahead on "morning joe," it is election day in america. steve kornacki will be at the big board to break down the key races to watch. plus, donald trump's contentious day in court, testifying yesterday in the $250 million new york civil fraud trial. what the former president said on the witness stand and what it spells out for the future of his family business. ells out for ths family business. >> tech: cracked windshield on your new car? you don't have to take it to the dealer. bring it to safelite. we do more replacements and recalibrations than anyone else. >> customer: thank you so much. >> tech vo: schedule now. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace ♪ when you have chronic kidney disease... ...there are places you'd like to be. like here. and here. not so much here. farxiga reduces the risk of kidney failure which can lead to dialysis. ♪far-xi-ga♪ farxiga can cause serious side effects, including ketoacidosis that may be fatal, dehydration, urinary tract or genital yeast infections, and low blood sugar. a rare, life-threatening bacterial infection in the skin of the perineum could occur. stop taking farxiga and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of this infection, an allergic reaction, or ketoacidosis. when you have chronic kidney disease, it's time to ask your doctor for farxiga. because there are places you want to be. if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. ♪far-xi-ga♪ power e*trade's easy-to-use tools make complex trading less complicated. custom scans help you find new trading opportunities, while an earnings tool helps you plan your trades and stay on top of the market. e*trade from morgan stanley. what was it like before viasat satellite internet? two words: not fun. log off. i've got homework! no way! it's still my turn! but now with viasat's new plans, we have plenty of internet. for everyone! learn more about our plans at viasat.com i was stuck. unresolved depression symptoms were in my way. i needed more from my antidepressant. vraylar helped give it a lift. adding vraylar to an antidepressant... is clinically proven to help relieve overall depression symptoms... ...better than an antidepressant alone. and in vraylar clinical studies, most saw no substantial impact on weight. elderly dementia patients have increased risk of death or stroke. report unusual changes in behavior or suicidal thoughts. antidepressants can increase these in children and young adults. report fever, stiff muscles, or confusion, as these may be life-threatening, or uncontrolled muscle movements, which may be permanent. high blood sugar, which can lead to coma or death, weight gain, and high cholesterol may occur. movement dysfunction and restlessness are common side effects. stomach and sleep issues, dizziness, increased appetite, and fatigue are also common. side effects may not appear for several weeks. i didn't have to change my treatment. i just gave it a lift. ask about vraylar and learn how abbvie could help you save. ♪♪ it is just seconds before the top of the fourth hour of "morning joe." a live look at san francisco. the sun has yet to come up because it's 6:00 a.m. on the west coast, 9:00 a.m. in the east. ahead this hour, we have an update on the trump organization's civil fraud trial. the former president's time on the witness stand yesterday sounded at times like one of his campaign rallies. we'll get legal analysis on his testimony and what comes next. >> mika, what we've already heard is what works for donald trump outside the courthouse doesn't help inside the courthouse. he was berating the judge. he also said a couple things on the stand that were admissions against his own interest, actually puts him in a much worse situation. again, if you look at the "wall street journal" editorial page, some of this is actually helping donald trump politically with his base and some independents. inside the courthouse where facts actually matter, hurting him. >> the judge has already made the decision. he's figuring out how much he should pay. i'm not sure he's helping himself, but i'm not sure he knows that. >> the court as a matter of law applied facts to the law, and as a matter of law he's been found liable and negligent. we're just in the penalty phase. it is election day. steve kornacki will be at the big board to help break down the races. also ahead, andrew ross sorkin joins us to discuss the latest offer from the hollywood studios and the sag-aftra strike is nearing the four month mark. willie, talk us through what happened in the courtroom yesterday. wow. >> donald trump on the witness stand in a new york city courtroom for several hours yesterday to answer questions about his knowledge of fraudulent financial statements filed by the trump organization. laura jarrett has details. >> reporter: the financial fraud case against donald trump entering a dramatic new chapter. the former president exploding on the witness stand, pushing back against accusations he, his son and his namesake company artificially boosted his assets to get better deals from banks and lenders. >> this case should never have been brought. it should be dismissed immediately. >> reporter: those familiar lines from the former president in the courtroom hallways brought to life on the witness stand with mr. trump unleashing on the judge, seated inches away, pointing and yelling, he called me a fraud and he didn't know anything about me, a clear reference to the judge's pretrial decision, ruling in the state's favor, finding mr. trump liable for fraud. the judge losing patience monday, seemingly exasperated by what he characterized as mr. trump's rambling answers, warning him this is not a political rally. at one point the back and forth between the two men growing so contentious, the judge suggested he might kick mr. trump off the witness stand entirely because of his refusal to answer the state's questions without long speeches. but he stayed put, and the state marched through year after year of financial statements, asking if he saw one from 2021. mr. trump saying, i was so busy in the white house. seconds later forced to admit he wasn't president at the time. >> at the end of the day, the only thing that matters are the facts and the numbers. and numbers, my friends, don't lie. >> new york attorney general leticia james there. joining us now, foreman litigator and msnbc analyst lisa rubin and analysis charles coleman. lisa, you were in the courtroom. how would you characterize what we saw yesterday. >> for trump, it was for political purposes. for the attorney general, on the other hand, it was a very successful day in court. there's been a lot of discussion about how what remains of the case is just about damages. that's partially true. there are six more claims that need to be proven. all of them require proof of intent. if the attorney general can prove the defendants intended their years long fraud, the damages and remedies he awards will be all the larger. so proving that intent is critical for the attorney general, and they got that yesterday circumstantially by tying donald trump to the series of documents, including his statements of financial condition. i'm reading from the transcript. they say, is it correct you reviewed the statements of financial condition in each of the years from 2011 to 2017 before it became final? and he says, openly, yeah, i would look at them and i would maybe on occasion have some suggestions. that's the kind of moment that makes a prosecutor under the table pump their fist in victory. they had a lot of those moments yesterday despite the political theater. >> we heard from tish james saying he can rant and rave and throw these tantrums and yell at the judge. that's a totally separate matter from the evidence we have presented. i'm curious, in your experience if let's just say witness x were sitting on the stand behaving this way toward the judge, what would happen? >> you would have a witness have a conversation with his defense attorney and that defense attorney would say, look, cut it out. i think judge engoron is handling this exception any well because you have a unique set of circumstances with the former president who is also a presidential candidate in this race. there's the legal lens and then the political lens through which this is used. you don't want to amplify that in a way that makes it a circus. it's a balancing act in this particular case that you would not normally find with a regular left. but if someone where to completely disregard the continuous warning from a judge, you would likely find yourself in contempt. >> john, i know you have a question for lisa, but first i want to read you the "wall street journal" lead editorial. will trump be indicted into office? mr. trump's opponents thought prosecuting him would bring him low. instead, it is powering his candidacy as he runs as a political martyr. it could yet get him back to the white house. they have some fascinating evidence from the pac that put together four ads they were going to run against donald trump based on his legal trouble. problem was it didn't move any of the undecideds. in fact, it pushed people more towards him buying into this argument that he's a political martyr. talk about that, but also talk about the fact that what may be helping him outside of the courtroom is hurting him inside of the courtroom and may end up costing him a lot of money, his business and his freedom. >> let's start there. it's worth underscoring the stakes of this civil trial. as noted, he's already been found that the company was doing fraudulent business dealings and has had his business certificate suspended in new york. there's been a stay there. but he may have to forfeit his assets in new york state that includes the majority of his business holdings and, of course, trump tower, his long-time home. he's so angry, because of course he spent most of his life pre-politics building up into this business figure. but it's helped him politically, at least so far in the republican primary, in part because those vying with him for the gop nomination are siding with him on this. they're not taking swipes at him about his legal cases. they're agreeing it is a deep state prosecutorial overreach. lisa, if the goal here even if trump is willing to hurt himself in the courtroom, if his actual audience is outside the courtroom, his supporters, the political audience, then that would seem to me to make his defense team want him or at least he'd ask his defense team to put him back on the stand next week so he can do it again. talk to us about the legal peril that could bring. >> if he gets put back on the stand next week, obviously the attorney general has an opportunity to cross examine him and they will. he really wound himself into knots yesterday talking about this so-called worthless statement clause through which he says everybody understood his statements of financial condition were worthless. he was asked by the attorney general are you saying the statements themselves are worthless? and he sort of backed away from that. ing he is clearly relishing the opportunity to vent. i'm not sure it's as much strategic as it is so core to who he is as a person that he just can't help it. his brand value, as he said on the stand yesterday, is what made him president and it's also what could destroy him legally. >> the lawyers came out of court and said it was the best testament i've seen in 33 years of practice. the defense we heard from the sons last week is it was the accountant. we're the big shots, we're running the company, the paper moves past our desk, we pass it on. is that a compelling argument? >> it's not. the problem that donald trump has, he would have had a decent defense to say, listen, i stepped away from a lot of this when i was president. unfortunately, there's still the idea that he has to contend with that he was no longer president. he took back the revocable trust. that's a problem. then he also is admitting, yes, i knew, for example, that my apartment at trump tower, that evaluation was off. i thought that was a little high. this is an admission he's made on the stand to prosecutors. those things add up and they are problematic. but it's important to go back to we are in the penalty phase. the fraudulent part has already been decided. this is a question of to what extent he is going to be punished, which is why i think he is also okay taking some of the gambles he has on the stand. >> there's no jury. it's up to the judge, who he's antagonizing at every turn. voters today will decide a number of key positions and measures across the country. that includes kentucky, where a democratic incumbent governor andy beshear is looking to secure a second four-year term and fend off a challenge from the state's republican attorney general daniel cameron. there is also a competitive race for governor in the typically red state of mississippi. there, incumbent republican tate reeves is facing a stiff challenge from democrat brandon presley. >> somebody named presley from mississippi is never going anywhere. >> what do you mean by that? >> come on. presley? nobody from mississippi named presley has ever amounted to anything. >> i get it. second cousin of rock 'n roll legend elvis presley. >> there you go. >> i understand now your joke. in ohio a ballot measure would enshrine abortion protections. in virginia, all 140 seats across the state's two legislative chambers are up for grabs. >> you know where we need to go? not the southwest for the big board. it's important. this is like an avengers thing >> he's wearing his blue suede shoes. joining us is steve kornacki. take it away. >> they had the elvis movie last year. maybe it's revived interest. maybe the presley campaign thinks there's something in that. let's go through what we're looking at today. in ohio there are two initiatives on the ballot. one is that constitutional amendment that would say abortion is legal in the state constitution. it would also provide a provision for restrictions after the point of fetal viability, about 24 weeks. the second involves the legalization of recreational marijuana. in virginia they have that split legislature where the republicans have the house of delegates and the republicans have the state senate. glenn youngkin, the republican governor, very much wants both. he thinks it's a compromised position that could help republicans on this issue with moderate voters. he's saying abortion with a limit at 15 weeks. that's where he would set the cutoff. democrats have been saying that's too extreme. this is the abortion ballot question in ohio. this is the most recent polling. it's favored by 57-35 in this polling. i should mention that every statewide ballot initiative, either those advanced by the pro-choice side or the pro-life side since roe v wade was overturned more than a year ago, none of them have gone in favor of the pro-life side. there was also a bit of a test vote in ohio this summer where opponents of this ballot initiative put something on the ballot this summer where they proposed raising the threshold for a constitutional amendment to needing 60% support, not 50% simple majority in order to pass. that went down to defeat this summer. a lot of folks think that was a test vote for what we're going to see today. we'll find out tonight in ohio. again, the balance in virginia, republicans with control of the house of delegates, democrats with control of the state senate. youngkin wants to have both along with the governorship. there is some talk taken with an enormous grain of salt is that youngkin has presidential aspirations. keep that in mind too. kentucky, the governor's race, you mentioned beshear, the democrat running for reelection, daniel cameron, the protege of mitch mcconnell. he's unseated a republican incumbent matt bevin who was deeply unpopular in kentucky. even up against a republican as unpopular as bevin, beshear won, but he won by barely 5,000 votes. he's polled well in terms of job approval and in terms of folks liking him personally, but there's late polling in this campaign that suggested it's tightened in the last week or two. it could be very close. where i'm looking tonight, this is a state in the presidential election that we all know is a very red state. of 120 counties in the state, joe biden won two of them where louisville is and where lexington is in 2020. look at the blue counties that beshear was able to win. you've got four right here sort of in eastern coal country. this was once upon a i'm going back at least a generation or two a core democratic area. now you're talking about counties that typically have been giving donald trump 75% of the vote. beshear was able to win a bunch of them over here in eastern coal country and was able to win counties that democrats don't typically win. he was able to expand the democratic footprint. and in these three counties just outside cincinnati, trump won all three of these counties, beshear flipped two of them. it's a big question tonight. beshear needs every single one of these counties to turn blue in 2019 and to stay blue and expand margins to add more blue. if you see tonight any of the blue counties from 2019 flip red, that is bad news for the govern. his margin for error from 2019 is so slim. >> let's talk really quickly about ohio for a second. here is a really red state. donald trump won it comfortably. it's been trending more and more republican, more and more conservative over the past six, seven, eight years. and yet you see that abortion number, 22-point difference, basically passing a statewide amendment that would pretty much enact what the law was under roe v wade. >> ohio doing what kansas did and bucking the national political trends, bucking the statewide political trends when it comes to this specific issue of abortion. when you look at that "new york times" poll, dig in a little deeper. still on this issue of abortion joe biden out performs republicans by a large margin. it's still very much a motivating issue for democrats. given that, larry sabato was talking about the virginia race on the show yesterday. sometimes these special elections can tell us a lot about the future presidential election and sometimes they don't necessarily. in the context of history, how do we know whether today's results in ohio, in kentucky and virginia are going to tell us a lot about the 2024 general election in a year's time or maybe not? >> i'm not sure they're going to tell us a lot. it may be more that they give us some clues to ponder over in two particular ways, one in these two governor races. this is how tate reeves got elected in 2019 in mississippi. it was only five points from the governor's race when reeves won the first time. he's been an unpopular governor. there's been a welfare scandal there, the issue of payments to brett favre, the quarterback. he's certainly offered a bridge to republican friendly voters to come and vote for him in this election. what reeves is relying on in mississippi and for that matter what daniel cameron, the republican, is relying on in kentucky is these are red states where the antipathy toward joe biden and the national democratic brand is so strong and so animating even among sort of softer republican voters that ultimately when faced with democratic candidates they kind of like and republicans in the case of reeves, they necessarily like, the party is going to override the personality. if that happens in both of those states, that's a sign that would be concerning for democrats heading into 2024. that would be for republicans a sign of hope for them, again, because it would be a measure of the intensity of that feeling. the other question that is on abortion, in virginia in particular, democrats have made such an issue of this 15-week ban. youngkin, on the other hand, thinks 15 weeks, that's sort of the sweet spot in public opinion for republicans. youngkin thinks he's creating a model for republicans to use nationally in 2024. if republicans have success tonight, i think that idea of a 15-week limit you're going to start to see in a lot of other places. >> no question it's a big night. steve kornacki, thank you very much. joining us now democratic senator tim kaine of virginia. good to have you on the show. >> great to be back. >> what's at stake in virginia tonight? >> well, there's state stakes and national stakes. as steve was saying, split houses. if governor youngkin wins both houses, it's a good night for him. if we maintain the status quo or democrats take both houses, it's a good night for democrats. i've been out on the trial schlepping around the state for candidates. i feel pretty good about us holding the state senate and i think we have a strong shot at winning the house. we'll see. what's at stake for virginians, all these issues, gun safety, reproductive rights, minimum wage. on the roe issue, virginia is the only state in the south that still allows women to make their own decisions about terminating a pregnancy up through the second trimester. we're the only one. the governor and republicans have indicated they will carve that back. the governor is pushing a 15-week abortion ban, but many of the legislatures are proposing six-week bans. most believe governor youngkin will sign whatever bill gets to his desk. if a bill comes to his desk of six weeks or even earlier, he'll sign that bill. virginia has a sad history of blocking people's access to vote. only in recent years have we become a state where it's frankly convenient to vote, but the republicans would propose to roll that back if they get the trifecta that governor youngkin wants. then we send a message nationally. i do think because virginia is a battleground state, the kentucky and mississippi races are important, but nobody believes those states are going to be in play in 2024. but a state that elected joe biden by ten points and the next year elected governor youngkin is going to be in play next year. big important races tonight. >> senator, good morning. a lot of eyes on virginia tonight with the election. i also want to turn you to the latest from the middle east. we know the president has been pushing the israeli prime minister for a ceasefire or temporary pauses in order for humanitarian aid to reach and injured civilians to get out of the battle zone. give us what you think would be appropriate. there's been a lot of debate. we heard from prime minister netanyahu maybe suggesting an hour pause here and there. would that be sufficient? what do you think is needed? >> it's got to be more than an hour or two. we've had intense discussions with the israelis. i was with the israeli ambassador to the united states last week. i basically said this to him. israel has a right and an obligation to defend itself against hamas, but what the world is watching right now is whether you're defending against hamas or whether you're perpetrating a war against palestinians or gazans generally. most in gaza are under the thumb of hamas. they're victimized by hamas. they don't support hamas. so there's no reason to just take these massive civilian casualties against people who are not hamas supporters. here's what we need. we need israel to target their military activity to make plain that they're going after hamas, but not gazan civilians. we need to give people the ability to easily get out of war zones if there's a need to go after hamas leadership and we have to dramatically increase humanitarian aid into gaza, especially the south of gaza. if you tell people to move south to get out of the war zone and then you choke off humanitarian aid, water, electricity, you only allow limited supplies in every day, you're putting people in a situation where they're going to start dying from cholera and hunger. that would bring more parties into this conflict, he says or the houthis or iran. that would be disastrous. we need to make sure the military activities are targeted against hamas, not palestinians, and we need to make sure the humanitarian aid increases to stop suffering. >> let me ask you a quick question about presidential politics. there were a spate of polls that came out on sunday, fear and loathing among democrats in d.c. and across the nation. i'm wondering how much or how little do those polls mean if democrats have a good night tonight? >> good question, joe. i want to have a good night tonight, because i think it might quiet some worry down. look, i'm a little bit selfish about this. i'm on the ballot next year too. so i'm looking at these polls. what i believe is the biden track record has been a very, very strong one in terms of job growth, manufacturing, infrastructure. we've just got to do a better job of selling it. i always get mad at democrats, because here's a problem with democrats. when we campaign, we don't campaign with the economy as the front issue. we kind of cede the economy to republicans and then we try to make it up on everything else and sometimes we can. but any race i've ever run, i always put the economy front and center, because that's what voters are most concerned about. i'm going to do that in my race in 2024. you see biden kind of laying the groundwork for doing that. we really have to push it. i think if we do that and we sell the accomplishments of the infrastructure bill or the manufacturing bill or salary increases or low unemployment, we will reel voters back our way before november 2024. >> democratic senator tim kaine of virginia, thank you so much for being on this morning. >> so glad to be here, guys. coming up on "morning joe," we'll talk to andrew ross sorkin about what's driving the financial turmoil at an office sharing company. and the actors strike and the studios' response falls short of union demands. and we'll talk to richard blumenthal about the impact of social media on children. blumenthal about the impact of social media on children somedays, i cover up because of my moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. now i feel free to bare my skin, thanks to skyrizi. ♪(uplifting music)♪ ♪nothing is everything♪ i'm celebrating my clearer skin... my way. with skyrizi, 3 out of 4 people achieved 90% clearer skin at 4 months. in another study, most people had 90% clearer skin, even at 5 years. and skyrizi is just 4 doses a year, after 2 starter doses. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine, or plan to. thanks to clearer skin with skyrizi - this is my moment. there's nothing on my skin and that means everything! ♪nothing is everything♪ now's the time. ask your doctor about skyrizi, the #1 dermatologist-prescribed biologic in psoriasis. learn how abbvie could help you save. right now get a free footlong at subway. like the new deli heroes. buy one footlong in the app, get one free. it's a pretty big deal. kinda like me. order in the subway app today. we are grocery outlet and we are your bargain bliss market. what's bargain bliss? you know that feeling you get when you find the name brands you love but for way, way less? that's bargain bliss. it's grocery outlet's 20% off wine sale going on now through november 7th. we have hundreds of wines sure to pair with any gathering. so act now because this deal won't last long. stop in and save today. in just about 30 minutes the senate judiciary subcommittee on privacy, technology and the law will hold a hearing on social media and the teen mental health crisis. a former director of engineering for facebook's protect and care team will provide testimony. the whistleblower alleges meta neglected reports of harassment and harm directed towards teenagers on its platform. joining us now, democratic senator richard blumenthal of connecticut will chair the hearing. >> chairman, thank you so much for being with us. a disturbing report in the "wall street journal" about this whistleblower who reported the problems that it was causing, instagram was causing to his daughter and other teenager, told it to zuckerberg. no response, as usual. >> he went directly to zuckerberg and blew the whistle resoundingly sounding this alarm not only to mark zuckerberg and others of his team. rather than engaging real reform, facebook engaged in a public strategy of distraction, denial and deception. they hid this information from the public and from congress. they rejected recommendations to protect kids and they even rolled back some of the protections. these statistics were just really chilling, more than half of all users reporting bad or harmful experiences on facebook, more than a quarter reporting bullying or sexual advances, those reports are from teams and -- teens and more than a third reporting discrimination on race, religion or gender. these were reported to facebook's team. they not only disregarded them, but they engaged in a lobbying effort against legislative reforms, which i think are absolutely necessary. this social media mantra "trust us" no longer has any shred of credibility. that's why i hope our kids online safety act will be passed. >> what can be said about instagram and meta? we've had warnings, we've had studies, we've had actually studies inside of facebook. then they lied about it. it's like what tobacco did in the 50s and the 60s. you know, there are some things that we as parents can see with our own eyes. instagram more often than not just not good for teenagers, especially for girls. >> yeah. how many times have we sat on this program and discussed this and we've discussed this while congress has been discussing this and listening to whistleblowers from inside instagram and listening to instagram's own reports saying that teenager girls in particular whether it came to eating disorders or issues of depression, they were hurting. this information isn't new. we know this. we know the impact that instagram and other social media platforms are having on teenagers and in particular teenager girls. you've heard the hearings before. they've been up on capitol hill with these hearings before, and yet nothing seems to change. do you really think anything will this time? >> i do. i really do because of the parents and the young people who are coming forward. they are the most effective voices and faces. we now have close to 50, one-half of the senates cosponsors on the kids online safety act. senator marsha blackburn and i have reached out to our colleagues. i'm hopeful the measure we propose will reach the floor by early in the year or early next year, because leadership has indicated it thinks something has to be done. what you point out about the bullying, about eating disorders, more than a quarter of the teens report that they feel worse about body comparisons and social relationships after going on facebook or other social media. i think the evidence is now overwhelming and we can no longer rely on social media to police itself. >> what's hopeful and also unusual is this is a bipartisan effort. democratic member of the judiciary committee senator richard blumenthal of connecticut, thank you for stopping by to fill us in. the office sharing company wework filed for chapter 11 bankruptcy protection yesterday, valued at $47 billion just four years ago, the company has suffered one of the most stunning corporate collapses in recent history. >> let's bring in andrew ross sorkin. you talk about a perfect storm, we've of course seen the movies about the mismanagement, the crazy spending at the beginning. okay. that's fine. they bring in a new ceo. you get covid, which empties out the offices. then post covid, you and i are still talking to ceos who are going how do i get people back in our offices five days a week? wework has gotten hit by just a complete absolute tidal wave of change that's obviously led them exactly where one could expect them to be, bankruptcy. >> i think it's all those things you mentioned joe, but underneath it was always this sort of question about whether the business model could work, this idea that effectively they were leasing properties on a long-term basis, ten years, 15 years, 30 years, and then releasing that property to individuals and small businesses on a short-term basis. they really overextended themselves. there was a question among a lot of folks in the real estate business that said did this model ever work. in some ways you could argue that post pandemic things should even look better in a way for wework in terms of how consumers would use it, because you have a lot of folks working in the actual office two or three days a week and some of them are taking spaces in weworks closer to people's homes. it's an interesting business model. two things to note. the company is not going away. wework is going to continue. it's just that the folks who have been lending them all this money are going to take a massive hit. and if you own equity in this company, you have taken a massive hit. they own so much real estate in cities like new york and london, they're almost too big to fail, which is to say if you're a landlord leasing to them, you can't let them fail, because it would mean that all of the commercial real estate in a place like new york city or london would really come down if they didn't work out these deals. right now they work out deals with about 92% of landlords and we'll see what happens with the rest of them. >> too big to fail strikes me as a possible book title. just file that away. let's talk about the actor strike. the studios came back with what they said was their last best offer. well, that wasn't good enough. the actors still said no. it seems like this is about a.i., that last big piece. where does it go from here? >> it's a unique negotiating tactic, if you will, to say best and final. and when you have a best and final offer and that gets rejected, in most worlds if you use that best and final language in the context of i'm going to buy a home or not buy a home, in this case something still has to happen. i think there is an opening. there has to be an opening for them to get to the table. the question is what does bring them to the table and who is going to crack first. the one thing at this point in a calendar interestingly the opportunity for any production really to get back before january 1st is now almost off the table. in some ways even though there was this massive rush to try to get a deal done because they did want to get production moving immediately. now there might be a window where something doesn't happen for some period of time and they can still get production going in january. i think it's going to be a soap opera unfortunately that's going to continue to play out and there's a lot more episodes. >> if we had told joe biden and his campaign team back in 2020 after they won the election, going into your next election gdp is going to be over 4%, unemployment is going to be under 4%, the u.s. economy is going to be much stronger than any economy in the eu or china, they would say we'll take it. that's great. it's morning in america. and yet you wrote a piece yesterday explaining why despite all the really positive trend lines and the fact that america's economy is stronger than any other economy in the world, voters still are having a hard time buying into bidenomics. why is that? >> you look at all of the polls and the truth is americans have not bought into it. you can look at where the u.s. is relative to europe and all sorts of statistics and say we have a fabulous economy on a relative basis to all of these relative sort of pieces of time or to other countries and the like. if you look at the polls, what i think the american people are saying is they're looking relative to what their life was like two or three years ago. the truth is inflation has been the story. when you go to the supermarket and the prices are what seem like often times double for certain types of products -- i had someone e-mail me this morning. they said, you say the economy is so great. you're out of touch. i used to go to mcdonald's and spend $6, now we spend $9. that encompasses the fundamental issue. the conundrum for this administration is that's a very hard thing to both control which is largely the federal reserve, though i know people want to blame some of the fiscal policy that the administration pushed, but the other piece of it is it's very hard to tell somebody things are great on a relative basis except for maybe how you feel. one last piece that is almost inexplicable, most people will tell you that their own finances are good, but everybody else's are bad, meaning they have a bad view of the economy and yet their own economics are feeling quite good. there's a lot of math and polling data that's very hard to make true sense of. >> that's what's so nonsensical. i over seen polls where 74% of americans say their economic situation is good. >> good or getting better. then they say everything else is terrible. >> then 80% of americans say but the economy is going in the wrong direction. there is a number we don't understand that people is really hard to put their arms around is so how could joe biden be doing so poorly with younger voters? talk to younger voters who have wanted to buy a house now for years. inventory is lower than it's ever been, prices are higher than it's ever been and interest rates are higher than they've ever been. >> is that a bubble? >> if you're trying to get your first home and you've been trying to buy your first home for five or six years and it's just not happening, you can understand why they're angry. >> no question. i would also make the comment that jay powell has specifically said and this is the head of the federal reserve that one of the reasons he thinks the economy has held up so well and he want been worried about interest rates is people have already locked into homes unlike 2008 have 30-year mortgages. they are fine. the people getting hurt are the people who want to buy in for the first time and they can't. it's sort of this bifurcated economy between some of the folks that may be older relative to younger folks and i think you are seeing that in the polls as well. >> andrew ross sorkin, thank you very much. coming up, we're going to turn back to the latest in the israel/hamas war. we'll show you what prime minister benjamin netanyahu said about the future of gaza and how netanyahu's commitment to an all-out offensive is leaving the biden white house with few options. that's all straight ahead on "morning joe." ons. that's all straight ahead on "morning joe." he hits his mark —center stage—and is crushed by a baby grand piano. you're replacing me? customize and save with liberty bibberty. he doesn't even have a mustache. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ here in the bay, our cars takes and all of our stuff where we want to go. but, our cars can't take us e with unpaid tolls. vehicles with overdue, unpaid tolls may not be able to renew their registration until outstanding balances are paid. payment assistance is available. visit bayareafastrak.org/ase so go pay your unpaid tolls y and keep your wheels on the ! i think israel will for an indefinite period will have the overall security responsibility because we have seen what happens when we don't have it, when we don't have the security responsibility, what we have is the eruption of hamas terror on the scale that we couldn't imagine. >> that's israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu on his plans for gaza after the war with hamas. the comments come as the biden administration continues to push for a two-state solution as just one of many issues the white house and netanyahu are reportedly disagreeing on as our next guest reports, the biden administration finds itself in a precarious position and unable to exert significant influence on america's closest ally in the middle east. joining us now, white house reporter for "the washington post", yasmin alatalab. i think the first question would be what do they agree on? >> well, the white house supports israel's right to try to eradicate hamas. they agree there needs to be new leadership in gaza and president biden has said on a number of occasions that israel has a right and a duty to defend itself. i think where points of tension are coming now are how israel is going about this campaign to try to eliminate hamas, the white house does not think it is going to be successful or achieve their aims and the scale of the war they're waging in gaza and the sheer number of civilian casualties and, you know, the increasingly dire humanitarian situation in the territory. >> it is jonathan, really terrific reporting in the piece. could you dive in a little deeper on america's concerns in particular about the israeli strikes on the refugee center, they hit it consecutive days, a densely populated area. casualty numbers are hard to trust there, but certainly could be hundreds upon hundreds. give us a sense as to what the americans feel about that, and what they said to the netanyahu government about it. >> yeah, jonathan, i think this is a great example of where the disagreements over israel's retaliatory campaign are coming up. the white house was extremely uncomfortable with israel's decision to strike a densely packed refugee camp two days in a row. i think there were three strikes on this refugee camp in a span of 24 hours. we don't know the exact number of civilian casualties, but we know it was at least dozens. israel says it took out a senior hamas commander through the strike, but from talking to white house advisers and u.s. officials, i think the white house disagreed with the calculation it was worth the civilian casualties to take out hamas commander. i think in private the white house and the administration more broadly has urged israel to consider proportionality in its attacks. i think there are fears this counterattack is quite disproportionate. and to more carefully consider civilian casualties. so the refugee camp, the bombing on the refugee camp is a great example of where u.s. officials disagreed with the calculation israel made that it was worth the civilian casualties and the wreckage that ensued to take out what they said was a senior hamas commander there. >> how much of the -- is the white house managing to get a clear sense from the israelis of what happens after this aerial bombardment campaign is over in terms of the management of gaza, the reconstruction of gaza, and i know they're talking to other arab countries as well, but how much of the israelis are focused on the longer term political solutions? >> it is a great question. and i think it is so important because there is where there is a lot of tension and a lot of concern on the u.s. side about israel's campaign. i reported a little over a week ago with my colleagues that u.s. officials were urging israel against a ground invasion, they thought it was just going to be escalatory and not going to achieve their aims at taking out hamas, and in this piece as well as the piece i reported last week with my colleagues, you know, we found that u.s. officials are asking israeli officials, you know what they say are tough questions about the military campaign, trying to poke holes in their plan trying to make them think about what they're trying to accomplish and comes next in gaza if they do succeed in taking out hamas but they're not getting clear answers and they're concerned there is not a plan for what comes after the war. >> white house reporter for "the washington post," yasmeen abutalab, thank you for your reporting. we'll see you tomorrow morning. ana cabrera picks up the coverage after a quick final break. >> remember, get out and vote today. >> it's election day. >> it is so important. get out and vote. >> see you tomorrow! >> thanks. d vote >> see you toromrow! >> thanks. umana, we believe your healthcare should evolve with you, and part of that evolution means choosing the right medicare plan for you. humana can help. with original medicare you're covered for hospital stays and doctor office visits, but you'll have to pay a deductible for each. a medicare supplement plan pays for some or all of your original medicare deductibles, but they may have higher monthly premiums and no prescription drug coverage. humana medicare advantage prescription drug plans include medical coverage, plus prescription drug coverage. and coverage for dental, vision, and hearing, all wrapped up into one convenient plan. plus, there's a cap on your out-of-pocket costs! humana has large networks of doctors, hospitals and specialists across 49 states. so, call or go online today and get your free decision guide. humana - a more human way to healthcare. rsv can severely affect the lungs and lower airways. but i'm protected with arexvy. arexvy is a vaccine used to prevent lower respiratory disease from rsv in people 60 years and older. rsv can be serious for those over 60, including those with asthma, diabetes, copd, and certain other conditions. but i'm protected. arexvy is proven to be over 82% effective in preventing lower respiratory disease from rsv and over 94% effective in those with these health conditions. (♪♪) arexvy does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients. those with weakened immune systems may have a lower response to the vaccine. the most common side effects are injection site pain, fatigue, muscle pain, headache, and joint pain. i chose arexvy. rsv? make it arexvy. (♪♪) when migraine strikes you're faced with a choice. ride it out with the tradeoffs of treating? or push through the pain and symptoms? with ubrelvy, there's another option. one dose works fast to eliminate migraine pain treat it anytime, anywhere. without worrying where you are or if it's too late. do not take with strong cyp3a4 inhibitors. allergic reactions to ubrelvy can happen. most common side effects were nausea and sleepiness. migraine pain relief starts with u. ask about ubrelvy. learn how abbvie could help you save. nice footwork. man, you're lucky, watching live sports never used to be this easy. now you can stream all your games like it's nothing. yes! [ cheers ] yeah! woho! running up and down that field looks tough. it's a pitch. get way more into what you're into when you stream on the xfinity 10g network.