Hi, everyone. Its 4 00 in new york. Theres no shortage of news today in the legal troublesing the disgraced expresident and current gop front runner, including a third trump lawyer and fourth trump associate earlier today Pleading Guilty in the Fulton County Criminal Election interference case. We begin with a moment years in the making at Aen Manhattan courthouse. The disgraced expresident coming face to face with Michael Cohen, the former fixer who said he would take a bullet for donald trump now, Star Witness In That Civil Fraud Trial that threatens to bring down the trump business empire. Here is what Michael Cohen said on arrival at court today. Let me just turn around and say that this is not about donald trump vs. Michael cohen. This is about accountability, plain and simple. We leave it up to the judge in order to make all the duststorm nations. I thank you all for coming. A few hours later in what he called a, quote, heck of a reunion, he took the stand in the 250 million civil suit brought by the new York Attorney general. Early in his testimony, had he pointed the finger directly at the man he calls donald. He was asked about the crimes that he pleaded guilty to and when it came to lying to congress about trumps effort to build a trump tower moscow, trump said i did that at the direction and benefit of mr. Trump, end quote. Cohen went on to confirm Essential Allegation of pross. Nbc news reporting this. Cohen said trump will come up with his own net worth estitions. It was up to him and former trump cf to make the numbe work. I was asked to increase the total assets upon a number that he arbitrarily elected. 2011 financial statement. Mps my responsibility along with Allen Weisselberg Predom Nebtly was to Reverse Engineer the Asset Classes and increase those assets in order to achieve a number that tru asked us for, he said. Asked what that number would be, cohen said, quote, whatever number he told us. All day long, trump lashed out at Cohen On Social Media and in front of the cameras, well spare you what he said, but his reaction in court today is a reflection of the fact that cohens testimony gets to the heart of this case. Something that the Attorney General acknowledged when announcing her lawsuit last year. Mr. Trump and his allies may say these penalties are too harsh or that this is part of a wish hunt. I will remind everyone that this investigation only started after Michael Cohen, the former lawyer, testified before congress and shed light on this misconduct. Donald trumps former fixer on the stand today as the star website for the prosecution in the expresident s civil fraud trial is where we begin today. Some of our most favorite reporters are here. Senior editor and msnbc political analyst tim obrien is here, former attorney and legal analyst Glen Kisher In is here and susan craig join us. I want to start with you. I said to my team earlier theres something shakespearen about this clash of personalities. Well dig into the law of it in a minute. Im always reminded by smart legal folks that the central legal question has been decided, that hes liable for fraud, that his business was a fraud and has been determined by the judge already. But just take us inside the i think of all these movie references because of the personalities involved. Take me inside that dynamic today. You stole the word i would say is it was shakespearen. The story was the fact that these two men were in a courtroom together. They havent seen each other in several years. When they last saw each other, Michael Cohen was Donald Trumps lawyer and donald trump was president. And you just think what Michael Cohen and donald trump have been through. You had to see when Michael Cohen walked in the courtroom, you looked at a man who has done time for actions that he did on behalf of the president. He has written a. He lost his law license. He has lost so much. Today he was here looking at the man who, much of what has hpd to him, the man responsible for. The first thing he did on the stand was give his address on park avenue. I couldnt help but think he gave the Street Address that happens to be a building that has trumps name on it. Donald trump is just everywhere in this mans life. Today was his opportunity to set the record straight. I have been thinking about these two men all day and read ing the updates. We are going to get to the legal developments, but dopd took from Michael Cohen in his view everything and actually he took his freedom. He did time in solitary. Michael cohen is still trying to put his life back together. He finds himself aligned with people he was willing to many line when he was working for donald trump. His life has changed more than just about anyone else. And Michael Cohen maybe central in taking away from donald trump the thing that made him president. The facade of a successful businessman. Reporter right. The first strings that were pulled on that were by Michael Cohen when he testified before congress about some of the Financial Issues that were now in court about. Its just incredible will toe seize to guys. When Michael Cohen walked in, he didnt look at donald trump and donald trump was looking straight ahead. Everybody was just waiting to see if they exchanged a glance or had any sort of eye contact, and they didnt. Michael cohen, were on direct. Hes been a cool customer. Hes answering the questions very straight. He refers to the former president as donald j. Trump on most references or mr. Trump. Hes really coloring in the lines. I say that because i think a lot of people watching know he has a bit of a temper and he can blast off on social media. Were seeing none of that. Donald trump has been, for the most part, hes been watching the proceedings. Hes been fitting. Hes been on his phone a fair bit. Even just before we came back from lunch, he was taking calls in court trying to hide the fact he was on a screen that we could see. Its been odd. There havent been any outbursts or lashing out by either side. On his phone is how parents of tweens usually describe an unsupervised moment, but thats what the current gop front runner was seen doing. I want to press on something that i know is sensitive for Michael Cohen, but its important about the prosecutions of donald trump in new york. The civil and criminal. Michael cohen had the goods and james office, took the time to corroborate his account, something that mueller didnt seem to do with Michael Cohen. In the case of sdny determines that donald trump is coconspirator, why do you think that is . I dont know why that is. The braiseness of some of what Michael Cohen has been saying during his direct examination things like donald trump just threw out a number, im going to say im worth a 5 billion and instructing Michael Cohen and the chief Financial Officer Allen Weisselberg to Reverse Engineer the numbers. Cook the books and a have it add up. Thats so braise and so nefarious. If youre doing it only because youre chasing tabloid headlines, thats one thing. But Michael Cohen made it pretty clear in both his congressional testimony and im sure in his Trial Testimony that, no, this was to secure bank loans. It was to secure insurance for his properties. This is years long fraud. In one sense, this is an opportunity for donald trump to confront his accuser through his lawyers. You get to confront and crossexamination, the witness who is are testifying against you, but in another sense, this really feels like a moment where Michael Cohen gets to confront his tormenter. Michael cohen paid off play mates and porn stars for donald trump at his direction and for his benefit, and who goes to prison. Michael cohen. I have always maintained thats a deep injustice. Not that Michael Cohenen went to prison for his crimes, but that donald trump has not suffered one moment of accountability. Its testimony for alvin bragg in the Criminal Prosecution being brought for the massive fraudulent Business Records case that alvin bragg has brought. But i would think this must be a somewhat satisfying moment for Michael Cohen. Im glad to hear susan saying hes keeping his cool. I tell every witness to keep yfr cool because if you lose your cool, youre stepping on the opponents playing field. So well see what happens on crossexamination. Is mike books Michael Cohen didnt benefit from the Campaign Finance violation. And Michael Cohen didnt benefit from the alleged sexual act with a porn star. And hes the only one who went to prison. Hes talking about testimony with Allen Weisselberg, who also went to prison. All the people that did time for donald trump never ceases to stun me. Cant we see the parallels between that and the january 6th consequences that are being paid by the boots of the Insur Jexists who were instructed to go to the capitol to release the cracken, to stop the steal, to fight like hell or you wont have a country anymore. And the boots, the lowerclass criminals are serving time and donald trump, again, has yet to suffer one second of accountability. I think all of this highlights the unequal application of the law thats enjoyed by The Ruling Class criminals. Its amazing. Right back to where we started. There are bigger plots at play today from the sublime shakespearen, but you know the players. You have been a litigant in this very story of the fraudulent nature of what trump asserts to be his wealth. You have Information Today straight from one of the horses mouth of how it was Reverse Engineered. But you already knew that, right . Yeah, this is just an old story that finally wound up in a courtroom. Journalists dont have Subpoena Power and prosecutors for a long time didnt determine that anything trump was doing violated the law. I think that all started to land on the doorstep when he president. He became a more threatening public presence because of the power he can wield as president. People focused on his back story and his actions than maybe they had in the past in terms of the consequences of possible crimes. I would fall in with you on the My Cousin Vinnie Interpretation rather than shakespeare. In shakespeare, you have very capable people full of mal lis and ill intent. And you have incapable people full of malice and ill intent. Donald trump is the crypt keeper. He keeps ushering out people who are these almost emblematic cartoon characters. Donald trump is Archie Bunker in a suit. Michael cohen is a fixer in a suit. I was in that courtroom last week. You run through the state supreme courtroom with a state judge, who is colorful. And he has his lawyers. Its about the cameras rather than the consequences of the Legal Process. I think whats going to end up here has been predictable from the beginning. I think very early on said trump has clearly had a pattern of fraud so its really just a matter of what the penalty is going to be. And Michael Cohens testimony today is adds on to the other testimony and evidence thats come into the Public Record that donald trump inflated his assets. I think if his lawyers had been combat ready and had been a little more astute about how to defend their client, they would have requested a jury trial. They may not have been granted one, but i think the judge would have wanted to defer to team trump i think they could have said he did it to trick the media and hes a deeply juvenile and insecure man. But maybe at the end of the day, the banks werent harmed and we can convince a jury of that. And trump and his lawyers have done nothing but turn the courtroom into a playground. I think that when this wraps up, hes going to see a lot of his ability to do business in new york almost completely. So let me ask you to jump in on that point and take us inside the legal developments. Take us inside whats happening in court. The legal importance today. We have been focused on the personalities. Reporter yeah, i think tim is right. This is all creative. You dont have the aha moment any day in this trial what you have is Building Blocks leading towards something. And what we saw today, which was interesting was Michael Cohen saying that he was asked to given a nurl and he was asked to get it higher and he Reverse Engineered it he talked about how he did that. He said he would go out and if it was a tower with condominiums, he would find comparables that werent comparable. That dont exist and they would move the price up. We heard that sort of thing and thats really every day that i have been here, you continue to hear stories like that. Its not just, oh, we had a meeting and it came at 4. 5 million and he said to move it to 6 billion. Youre seeing the how every day in court. Its always a little different, but it builds on it. After today, were seeing the direct tomorrow if we start the cross, which i expect we will, it could be explosive. But i have to say Michael Cohen is very much contained. Whether or not he can keep it together tomorrow when hes being crossed by not the main lawyer for trump thats been in the courtroom, but very spirited and performtive. Were going to be seeing that over and over. The fireworks if they are going to happen are going to happen tomorrow. But on the substance. Its been every day we get a little bit of information that goes towards what will ultimately be the judges decision on just how big the financial penalty should be in this case. To what were saying, theres never been any acts introduced at any point that suggests that he didnt commit fraud on a massive scale. So the question and the judgment that he was a fraud, he is a fraud, has already been reached. And as everyone has already mentioned, they are determining damages. What is the point for trump . Why is he sitting in there . Why is his Lawyer Planning to be so performtive . Thats all they have left . I think thats all they have left. It plays into the political realm. Donald trump spent his first term as president , maybe his last term as president undermining public faith and Public Institution in the rule of law. In the Legal Process and diplomacy in the media, in universities, anywhere where expertise in an attempt to bring civic procedures to our life in this country resided, donald trump tried to undermine it. Hes in a courtroom trying to convince anyone that the whole thing is farce. Hes a victim. That the law of the United States shouldnt apply to him. Everyone is out to get him. And this is a useful line for him to also campaign on, which he already has. And so i think for him and his lawyers, its purely performtive. I dont think they think they are going to change the outcome. Another thing that i think is important to watch and it ties to the two federal cases and to the georgia case, theres a long Standing Myth that donald trump has nine legal lives. The reality is hes never had a series of intense prosecutions land on his door step like he has in recent years. Specifically, the two federal prosecutions, but the Georgia Prosecution is robust. The new york prosecution is less so, but its stil damaging. The evidence being introduced shows that donald trump was not standing on the sidelines in any of this. Whether it was january 6th or the classified document case or voter fraud in georgia, he was an architect. He wasnt taking advice from people and saying i dont know if thats legal or illegal, but you told me its fine. Lets do it. He was telling people what he wanted done. They were carrying out his orders. Thats clear from Michael Cohens testimony. Its clear from other testimony. Its entered the Public Record in this case. I think its come up already in georgia. I think thats why you see Sidney Powell flip. Everyone around him knows its in their interest to testify that they were taking orders and doing things at the direction of donald trump. I think at the end of the day, thats going to be a damning fact pattern thats going to be hard to battle back against. Its so important. I want to ask you to stick around. And we also have a jury test in a jury found him liable for sexual assault. And so trump when presented to a jury also has yielded bad results for trump. But i want to both of you through to the other side of the break and ask about how these cases may foreshadow trump as a defendant. Also ahead for us, republicans have put forward today their third choice for speaker nominee since removing Kevin Mccarthy. Likely, the third one who will come up short in an eventual floor vote. Well look at whats become a purity test for those seeking to lead the House Republican conference as donald trump weighs in again. Plus new details from one of the two hostages released yesterday. What shes saying about her time in captivity and an update on what we know about negotiations to release more of what is believed to be around 200 hostages. Later in the broadcast, another former Trump Attorney in a courtroom today. Jenna ellis tearful guilty plea in the Georgia Election case. She distanced herself today far, far, far away from the man she once represented as a member of what she called Elite Strike Force team. Well bring you those stories and more when we continue after a quick break. Dont go anywhere. E after a quick break. Dont agonywhere. [female narrator] five billion people lack access to safe surgery. Thousands of children are suffering and dying from treatable causes. For 40 years, mercy ships has deployed floating hospitals to provide the free surgeries these children need. Join us. Together, we can give children the hope and healing they never thought possible. Its a mission powered by love, made possible by you. Give today. Type 2 diabetes . 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Side effects like nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea may lead to dehydration, which may worsen kidney problems. Living with Type 2 Diabetes . Ask about the power of 3 with ozempic®. Here in the bay, our cars takes and all of our stuff where we want to go. But, our cars cant take us e with unpaid tolls. Vehicles with overdue, unpaid tolls may not be able to renew their registration until outstanding balances are paid. Payment assistance is available. Visit bayareafastrak. Org ase so go pay your unpaid tolls y and keep your wheels on the i discussed it with them and provided documentation, include ing the personal financial statements. That was, obviously, important for them because what it did is it gave them the ability to take the documents that i provided, not just to them, but all the various different congressional committees, the House Oversight committee that it was posted live on. And what they did is they tracked it back. For example, the crainess about his apartment. 33,000 square feet, highest price ever attained. In fact, the Whoel Building is not worth that all the of money its never seen that type of money. They did it with Seven Springs and Martin Bashir and virtually every single property, including his golf courses. Thats the big problem. Were back with kim, glen and sue. So thats a little bit of what at least on direct has happened in court today. We understand that lenah, they are on cross with Michael Cohen. To everyones points, well see how that goes. But Michael Cohen has waited for this moment for a very, very long time. He has been, i think credibility tested by everybody who has sought his documentation and his testimony. And i wonder what you think the sort of strategic impact will be of trump listening to this all day, the inside story, the inside secret, its sort of the one person that he cant say i hardly know him. The the thing to remember about this group of donald trump is that Michael Cohen was not a financial insider in the Trump Organization. Allen weisselberg was. Green blat, his inside counsel, its been surprising to me he hasnt been brought in for more testimony because deals didnt get done inside the Trump Organization without green blat signing off on them. Jeff played a role in the nuts and bolts of the deal making. People like Matthew Calamari and Michael Cohen were not brought in because of financial expertise. They were brought in to fix problems and prevent a muscular and thuggish world view and exercise the powers to people outside of the Trump Organization trying to mess with donald trump. Michael is certainly a witness to these things. He was part of the conversations. One of the miscalculations thats come back to haunt donald trump is all these people who float n around in the orbit of his universe with him in the center, these are corruptible. They are either corrupt themselves or enamored its easy to corrupt them. He views loyalty as a oneway street. He will throw anyone under the bus, including even some of the children. And generally, for most of his 76 years, hes gotten away with that. Now hes in the middle of the Court Processes where these people that either shredded and corrupted and used over a period of years now are offering testimony. And they know that because loyalty is a oneway street in trump world that it is in their interest not to wait around with any hope that hes going to look out for them. And they are looking out for themselves now. And i think he is probably angry about that. I certainly think all of his actions, texting and phoning from the courtroom, jumping on to truth social, and engaging in hysterics and mud slinging, lashing out at anyone who comes within a foot of him is evidence of how cornered he feels, how powerless i think he feels and hes defaulting to the one thing he thinks he can control. The court of public opinion. Not the court of law. Youre going to see this escalate as the legal pressure on him intensifies. The point made in the last block, and thats how these are windows into a possible Criminal Prosecution of donald trump. Im thinking of of the congressional testimony testifying that what mark meadows said was he doesnt want to do anything he agrees with them. Im thinking of attesting to trumps hatred of wounded veterans, Men And Women who served our country and mark milley attesting to how he didnt want someone at a ceremony who was a wounded veteran of the behalf of the country. Im thinking of the firsthand witnesses that we dont know about yet. And im wondering what you make of how prosecutors are watching the willingness of now four campaign associates, to flip on trump in the rico prosecution, which the right has poo pooed they take very seriously. And we dont know what will be shake loose by jack smith, who i would imagine is watching this closely. In one sense, this is something of a preview of what is to come, the multiple criminal trials, but really i think this peals in comparison when a whole string of republicans will walk into the courtroom, raise their right hand, take that stand and just begin to unload some dramatically and sharply incriminating evidence against donald trump. Michael cohen, in a sense, is damaged goods. And but i think it will be a very different proceeding when it is some of the people that you just mentioned plus Donald Trumps other lawyers, who are a little bit different from Michael Cohen, the jenna elliss who have now pleaded guilty, have agreed to cooperate against donald trump. Donald trump is forever defending himself in the court of public opinion, as tim says, by posting or giving interviews, but what im not sure he fully appreciates is none of that will be admissible at a criminal trial because the rules of evidence will prohibit that. The only way donald trump will get to tell his side of the story and make these outrageous claims about relying on advice of counsel and maybe people who were or were not his lawyers, depending on what day you Ask Donald Trump about declassifying things or the president ial records act giving him a defense, which it really doesnt give him, none of that will see the inside of a criminal courtroom, unless donald trump chooses to testify. Then he can spew and spout any nonsense he chooses to, but i think it will all be defeated by the prosecutors. So its going to be a very different circumstance for him when hes forced to sit there every day a defendant in a courtroom in georgia or in new york. And i have long maintained that based on the evidence that has been amassed against him, it is going to be a very lopsided affair and i dont think any of the juries at any of the respective jurisdictions are going to find it all that difficult to conclude Beyond A Reasonable Doubt that donald trump is guilty of the crimes for which hes been indicted. Tim obrien, glen, sue, thank you all so much for starting us off. To be continued. We have some Breaking News. Tom emmer, if you havent heard of him, he was the next guy in line. He had just secured the republican nomination to be their house speaker. Well, Another One Bites The Dust. He dropped out. Well tell you about that development, not putting an end to one of the more embarrassing and dangerous periods in american congressional history. Well bring you the lathest, next. History well bring you the lathest, next did you know 80 of women are struggling with hair damage . Dryness and frizz that keeps coming back, could be damaged hair that cant retain moisture. You need pantenes miracle rescue deep conditioner. Its filled with provitamins to help hair lock in moisture, visibly repairing six months of damage in just one use, with no weighdown. Guaranteed, or your money back. For hair that looks healthy and stays healthy. If you know, you know its pantene. Hi, my name is damion clark. If you have both medicare and medicaid, i have some really encouraging news that youll definitely want to hear. Depending on the plans available in your area, you may be eligible to get extra benefits with a humana Medicare Advantage dualeligible Special Needs plan. 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Score settling, alliance making and breaking, and today a series of secret votes kicking people off the island. The original field of nine republicans who wanted the jobs was whittled down from seven and six and down to two. Then one. Now hes out. Tom emmer, the house whip, got his rose today, but he dropped out. So on to plan whatever were on. Lets bring into the Conversation Ali Vitali on capitol hill for us and former congressman from florida and msnbc political analyst david jolly. Who is what is happening, ali vitali . Reporter its a new record at least. The job of speaker designate, he got it around 1 00. My understanding is he walked into the room behind me at 4 00, dropped out and left with a smile, but nary a word to reporters. Now they are back to the Drawing Board. Its a Drawing Board we have already looked at today, specifically kevin hearne and mike johnson will once again vie for this position, which again, i have no idea why anyone thes at this point. But for hearne, hes someone who is coming into this with a lot of optimism having just spoken to him on his way into this meeting. And mike johnson is still one of the last people within the existing Leadership Structure who could potentially rise into the speebership. I have no clue if they will be able to get the 217 that they need, but in order to answer that question, they have to get the majority in the room. So well see which of them comes out with the very coveted title of speakerelect, and well go from there. But i think its important to note, you know because we have talked about it on this show, im not someone who thinks that former President Trump is a mover of votes here on capitol hill. But it is my understanding, according to one source familiar with what emmer was doing in these intervening hours while trying to see if he could get the vets together, as soon as trump tweeted saying he was a rhino and didnt support him for this job, thats when emmer realized the writing was on the wall. Because although trump did you want move votes, he can kind of stop votes from moving. And i think that could be one of the things that spelled doom for emmer, even sooner. But it is the shortest lived speakerelect bid that we have seen here. Ill go to the house historian, one of our producers, to see what the shortest one actually is, but this has to be in the running. David jolly, ali eliminated were matching today, a as to the structural problems. So the structural problems is that trump did you want have enough juice to get anybody home. Trump plus hannity equals nothing, failure. But the guys that voted to certify the election, even if they signed on to the lawsuit, the texas lawsuit, dont have the juice to win over the crazies. I dont want to call anyone a moderate. There are no moderates. Emmer was a guntoting guy who was fetish siing Second Amendment rights. He signed on to that lawsuit. Were not talking about ideological differences. Were talking about standing in maga world. I think were the at the point now where its irreconcilable. What do they do now . I think the divide within the caucus and the distrust and the hatred is real. I think to alis point, its not that donald trump can move a lot of votes, but he gives resolve to those who want to stand in opposition to someone like emmer. Thats what he did. He strengthened the resolve to emmers opponents. Now they go back Behind Closed Doors and stand in a circumstanceal and they draw their weapons and shoot at each other for a few hours and see who is left standing. That has been kind of the metaphor of these last three weeks. But i do think we are getting over the landing zone that if republicans are going to bring this to ab end, its in this moment. Allie and i have walked this walk together over the past couple weeks. I have shared with you, i think it takes somebody the country doesnt know, which is now youre left with hearne and johnson. And i will tell you but for the bad blood coming out of puling the rug out from under emmer, if johnson prevailed today, i think he could get 217. Because hes kind of just goldilocks temperature enough for everybody in that room. I think hearne is interchangeable with mike johnson in this moment. What does it mean for the country . This is important for the other news of the day, the ellis plea in georgia and some of the trump litigation, mike johnson, who is trying to now replace emmer, was one of the leaders of the independent state Legislature Theory and one of the people who tried to architect stealing the election from joe biden. Thats a real moment. We talked about a threat of a jim jordan speakership. With mike johnson, we need to pull back the curtain a little bit and see just what mike johnson would he done had he had that power. Thats a real question for the country. We know more about what the republican conference thinks about. That was an idea that was so crazy, so extreme, it failed legally. But not politically. So to tell us more about these two individuals, johnson and hearne. Reporter it failed legally, but not politically. I think that congressman jolly, who has been my partner in this across all of our programming on msnbc, is right to point that out. But i think its also important for us to note that when emmer was still the speakerelect, there were members in the room who said theyen wouldnt vote for emmer because he voted to certify the election. Thats a litmus test now that emmer failed simply because he said, hey, im not going to invalidate my work as the head of the House Republican campaign arm. Im not going to say the elections that i helped republicans win in house races across the country are invalid because trump lost his president ial bid. That was likely the thinking behind emmers stance on certifying the Election Results, which is nothing to say of signing on in the texas case. Its good for us to point out that mike johnson has roots in the false elector scheme and hes parcel to that. Hes someone who voted to dert certify the results because he knew in the field of nine candidates that only two men voted to certify them and he was one. I think had has become. We lost ali. You froze. Theres a metaphor in there somewhere. David jolly, im going to have youre pick up where she left off. This is happening at this breakneck pace, where your information exceeds what has gotten out there, but expand on her reporting. I think what allie is affirming within the republican caucus, election denying and the efforts to overturn an election is a requirement for some of the members to give you their for speaker. The question is does it disqualifying where my of the republican members. I dont think it is. There are a group of institutionalist members, even like a tom cole, who we often talk about, who voted to overturn the election in the house. Some of the more steady oldtimers in the house, they are okay going along with trumpism if they can get a house thats operating again, which is why i think a johnson or a hearne, i understand i use those interchangeably because each led the Study Committee which is a Sket Conservative Caucus and probably 130 or more members. It controls a majority, Steve Scalise once led it,en kevin hearne has led it. They are now the two remaining in the contest. I do think they could get to 217. The problem is its one of just bad blood. So tom emmer Beats Johnson by 20 votes three hours ago. The people who didnt vote for emmer say, i dont care what that vote looked like. I want the guy who lost to become speaker. Do your old institutionists finally say, enough is enough. Weve got to govern. Lets get behind a johnson and wool take the l on our side of the conference. I dont know. I do think this is it. This is the landing zone for House Republicans. If its not here, youre probably in a world of talking about Patrick Mcnew hampshire ri possibly some type of vote deal with democrats. Which is dramatic and extraordinary in its own right. Ali, we lost you. You froze. I want to turn to one more point here. So liz chi nae is expelled. And it seems like thats the pivot. Like thats the lens we should look at this through. Liz cheney cant exist in leadership or in the body because she draws a line at january 6th. I think everyone that voted to impeach trump is gone by now. And now were looking at two people who are forget the policy inclinations, they are all to the right of it. They are antidemocratic in nature. They did not vote to secure the election, but a the whose name was on the ballots that sent them back to congress, they know its bs. And thats where we are. Whoever it is, if its a republican, will have that antidemocratic position. I think thats right, but its why its so important when we talk about the ways that this House Republican conference has been remade in trumps image, that doesnt mean he moves votes or controls them, but it means that to the extent theres an ideology behind trumpism, a democracy is a part of that, that is one of the thoses of this republican conference. So i almost worried when democrats said and Hallie Jackson was democrats said and Hallie Jackson wa and our goal was to make sure jim jordan didnt become speaker because of the roles he played behind the scenes regarding january 6th allegedly. That made sense for them to say, but it also almost make it is sound like if and when they come up and say mike johnson also decertiied the Election Results and was the architect of the false legal theories behind false slates of electors, it makes them look like they are saying no to every republican, opposed to the reality which is democrats are saying were just saying no to anyone who is going against democratic values. I think thats a really important point. As i was killing time in the hallway waiting today, the other thing i was asking republicans about is in this slate of a dozen men who want to be the most powerful person in the house, where are all the women . I just popped a story on nbc. Com that answer it is i by saying, according to experts that i spoke to within the republican apparatus, they are too smart to want this job. Whether its politically because they know these issues of a Government Shutdown or foreign aid are too thorny and they are political losers whoever has to shepard the conference through t but they all have long careers and my not need to get bogged down in this mess right now. Thats so interesting. That warrants the totally separate long conversation. Youre our eyes and ears that have taken on this story. David jolly, thank you so much. Were going to shift gears here. A live report from israel on the continued efforts to free more of the 200 hostages still being held in gaza. Dont go anywhere. Well be right back. N gaza dont go anywhere. Well be right back. sean i wish for the amazing new iphone 15 pro jason sean do you mean this one the one with titanium . Switch to verizon, and get iphone 15 pro on them. sean wow vo get iphone15 pro, apple tv 4k and 6 months of apple one. All three on us. Only on verizon. You like that bone . I got a great price on it. You see my tail when that chewy box showed up . Oh, i saw it. Sorry about the vase. Can we just say vase like normal people . Fine. I always wondered what it would be like to have a tail. Maybe you did one time. Maybe a thousand years from now ill be tailless using that chewy app to get you great prices on treats. Im pretty sure it takes more than a thousand years. Vase. Pets arent just pets. Theyre more. Vase shop and get a 30 egift card through november 5th. At chewy. My mom is very much hoping that all the people that were with her will come back. The story is not over until everybody comes back. Speaking on behalf of a Hostage Released yesterday by hamas. That was her daughter telling reporters at a Press Conference after hererer lease, she had, quote, gone through hell. The 85yearold was held by the Terrorist Group and described being beaten when taken captive during the october 7th Terror Attack that killed more than 1400 people. Including 33 americans but her release alongside another hostage has brought a small glimmer of hope to the families of the more than 200 people still being held by hamas. Joining us is correspondent hala. What is the latest on the waiting game . Reporter this is coming against the backdrop of extreme suffering. What the military is doing is dropping leaflets asking ordinary gazaens to provide information as to the whereabouts of hostages and that they would be compensated financially and they could do this anonymously. And when i say the situation is dire in gaza, were hearing from the u. N. Agency on the ground saying that if they dont get fuel urgently, they will be forced to cease operations by tomorrow evening. They are saying though they always have hope, flst no expectation that fuel will be part of the next aid shipment. Now in terms of the Hostage Release that we saw yesterday, the 85yearold was speaking to her daughter in the hospital describing a difficult moment when she was abducted and driven on the back of a motorcycle to gaza. But then said when she ended up in a tunnel with other hostages, she says she was treated pretty well. She was given food and medicine. That said more than 200 people are left in gaza. Including the husbands of the two women released yesterday. And the question now is we know there are negotiations ongoing. How close are we to the next release. Thank you very much for joining us. Stay safe. Up next for us, jenna ellis is Pleading Guilty today in the georgia case. More news to come. Dont go anywhere. Georgia case more news to come. Dont go anywhere. When my doctor gave me breztri for my copd things changed for me. 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In the fra nettic pace of attempting to raise challenges to the election in several state, including georgia, i failed to do my due diligence. I believe in and value election integrity. If i knew then what i know now, i would have declined to represent donald trump in these postelection challenges. I look back on this full experience with deep remorse. My only thought is i hope snl is watching that. Hi, its 5 00 in new york on the same day that donald trump sat in Aen Manhattan courtroom listening to his former fixer and attorney Michael Cohen take the stand against him, the states further south in another courtroom, another one of trumps former attorneys was making big news. That was jenna ellis, a member of the, quote, Elite Strike Force team, as she referred to it that tried to overturn joe bidens victory in the 2020 president ial election. She pleaded guilty this morning in the Fulton County Georgia Election interference case. Jenna ellis is the fourth codefendant and third former Trump Attorney to take a plea deal out of the 19 People Chrge Ed by Fulton County d fani willis. About the three lawyer who is have plead guilty so far, their pleas may reshape the case against trump, supplying prosecutors with testimony from some of his closest advisers, who are now admitting for the first time that some of their actions crossed the line into criminality. Ellis pleaded guilty to a charge of aiding and abetting false statements and writings, confirming that the big lie is exactly what it sounds like. A lie. Heres more from her statement to the court earlier. In the wake of the 2020 president ial election, i believed that challenging the results on behalf of President Trump should be pursued in a just and legal way. I endeavored to represent my client to the best of my ability. I relied on others including many more years of speerz to provide with true information, especially since my role involved speaking to the media and to legislators in various states. What i did not do but should have done was to make sure that the facts, the other lawyers alleged to be true, were true. Keep in mind, no one was saying they were true. Unless google didnt work on her phone, that was easily knowable. Now ellis provided that Public Statement and we should tell you it was not required she do any of that, she didnt have to say anything. So her taking this moment and using her platform to expect her remorse and blame others for perpetrating the lies a about Election Fraud must not be sitting well with Rudy Giuliani and donald trump right now. She appeared alongside Rudy Giuliani in many states as he pushed State Legislatures to overturn the results in the aftermath of the 2020 election. She even drafted memos that claimed pence had the authority to refuse to count the lek tores from states biden won. Its also worth noting out of the lawyers that gave that Press Conference with wild Election Fraud conspiracy showcased, Rudy Giuliani is the only one so far who has not pleaded guilty. Thats where we start the hour with some of our favorite reporters and friends. Former lead investigator for the January 6th Committee tim haity is here and Carol Lenning is back. Greg, the tears are interesting. The guilty plea, more so. The fact that fani willis prosecution has you joining us every day as Another One Bites The Dust opinion. Yeah, the trump 19 is now down to the trump 15 and throughout this entire Process Fani Willis was planning on trump codefendants. Long list of this is how fani willis has built the case. We talked about this before. She did the same thing when prosecutoring gang members, and shes done the same thing when prosecuting teachers and administraors involved in the cheating about a decade ago. Folks asked how she could fit 19 codefendants in the same courtroom, well, that was never the plan. Shes building a sense of momentum that will help lead to some bigger fish. I just have something crossing my wire that you want ask you about abc news is exclusively reporting that exChief Of Staff mark meadows has been granted immunity and tells Special Counsel he warned trump about the 2020 claims. Let me read system of this reporting to you. I know youre familiar with it. Abc news reporting this. Former President Trumps final Chief Of Staff in the white house has spoken with Special Counsel jack smiths team at least three time this is year, including once before a federal grand jury, which came only after smith granted meadows immunity to testify under oath according to sources familiar with the matter. Those sources said meadows informed jack smiths team he told trump in the weeks after the 2020 president ial election that the allegations of Voting Frautd come account to them were baseless, a striking break regarding the election. Your entire work of your committee sought to prove layer upon layer, witness after witness. This is one the select committee wasnt able to get to. Your retoox this reporting from abc news . Yeah, if its true, it is the most significant evidentiary development in the entire investigation. Theres no one who was closer to the former president in the days between the election and his reluctant release of of the white house than mark meadows. If mark meadows is now finally after repeated invitation under an Immunity Grant telling the truth about the fact that there was no evidence of Election Fraud and he conveyed that directly to the president , it is really, really significant. Hard to understand how significant it is. Now meadows has been all over the place. He said that To Cassidy Hutch Son and others and in Text Messages and otherwise, he would tell people including the president to keep up the fight. So the problem for jack smith is he has been inconsistent in his, presentations and then he writes the book. Much of the book was false. What he is saying, according to this report is so consistent with all of the other evidence in the court, but its coming from a voice right next to the president. I think you have articulated the clarifying nature of a potential Criminal Prosecution. I take your point about his Credibility Problems as a potential trial witness, but let me read more of what were learning from abc news, which is reporting on this Immunity Deal for mark meadows. Abc news goes on to report, the sources said meadows told trump in the weeks after the 2020 election that the allegations of significant voting fraud coming to them were baseless, striking break from trumps rhetoric regarding the election, kourgt the sources, med does told federal investigators trump was being dishonest with the public when he first claims to have won the election hours after polls closed on november 3, 2020, before the final results were in. Obviously, we didnt win, a source quoted telling jack smiths team in hindsight. Strump trump has called meadows one of the former president s highest ranking aids in the white house, a special friend and great Chief Of Staff as good as it gets. This is when i first had a chance to talk to you, i said who would you want to talk to other than trump. It was mark meadows. Gets straight at what seems illusive and thats trumps state of mind. Exactly. The very same claims that jenna ellis is admitting were false, that mark meadows is saying he told the president were false are the same claims that the president makes on a stage in georgia at a big rattle pit. Everyone is telling him theres no basis to this. He continues to restate these false claims. Again, it all points increase willing i toen an intent to deceive. Not just free speech, which is claiming now in motions, but a specific intent to push information that he knows is false on the American People. In an attempt to spur them to action to disrupt the joint session. Its gold mine evidence of intent for jack smith. And that is how it will be used in the trial in march 4th. I just keep thinking of how many coies of the book they are going to have to print the Book Process Features Prom innocently in the maralago gooimt indictment. The discrepe sit says sources told abc news na jack smiths investigators were keenly interested in questioning meadows about electionrelated conversations he had with trump during his final months in office and whether he believd is some of the claims he included in a book he published after trump left office. A book that promised to, quote, correct the record on trump. Abc news has identified several sources that appear to be contradicted but what they told investigators Behind Closed Doors. According to the book, the election was stolen and rigged with help from allies in the media who ignored evidence of fraud right there in plain sight for anyone to access and analyze. But as described to abc news, mark madows privately told jack smiths investigators that to this day, he has yet to see any evidence of fraud that would have kept now President Biden from the white house and he told them he agrees with a Government Assessment at the time that the 2020 president ial election was the, wait for it, most secure election in u. S. History. Chris krebs is online. This is what has been shared by mark meadows, it seems that the damage to trumps case is immeasurable. Absolutely right. It points out the grift of the entire stolen election narrative. What a Powerful Mote Vauter it is. We did a lot in our investigation to demonstrate all of the stop the steal fundraising, the texts and emails that were put forth. Mark meadows wrote a book and lied to america because that fundamental message, even though its false, sells books. So much of the motivation here is financial. From the president ial himself to mark meadows selling books, the entire stop the steal movement is a fraud scheme. And mark meadows admission that he lied in the book that what hes saying now and said under oath inconsistent in the book lays that bear. Thats going to be another powerful theme in the trial. You want to talk about motivation, its to stay in power, but its also to make it rain because Election Fraud sells and it gets people to give up their hardearned money. We are covering a story that has broken since we came on the air. Abc news reporting about mark meadows receiving some sort of immunity and some of the things hes reported by multiple sources to have told jack smith, if you have any reporting on this, we want to hear that, but as a legal frame, it is consistent with what everyone has been saying about his lawyer for a long time, that he would find a way thread a needle and keep his client out of legal jeopardy. I would pause and say we have known for some months that mark meadows gave his fullthroated account to jack smith about what he saw, what he did, what he participated in with regard to the big lie and everything up to january 6, and even after, including many of the people helping him write his book happened upon a conversation with donald trump in which he revealed how he used Classified Information and pointed out Classified Information that he had with them on site. A whole other story for another day. We have known that mark meadows gave his full account to jack smith and had significant concerns about this claim about the election being stolen. We have seen texts and exchanges that mark meadows had with people in the White House Counsels Office and other lawyers in which he made fun of the claim that there was an election that had been stolen. There was fraud enough in states such as georgia to call those counts into question. As i remember one of those text exchanges he said even my son hasnt found enough dead people that voted in georgia to raise questions about this. So its pretty powerful stuff. We have known for awhile that mark meadows had his doubts about this claim. I want to underscore one other element that this reveals. If Measuring Meadows is admitting that he made up the whole sections in his book about the election lie, that there was fraud, if hes acknowledging that those were false, it reveals to most of us reporters who have been covering this for a long time that the kind of the jig is up for a host of other Republican Leaders who have been trading on this story, to stay connected to voters, that they think are riled up about this. To stay connected to a group of people that they are misleading in order to went their votes. People who gobble up conspiracy theories, distrust the government and can be ooezly misled and led astray. I think that this i wouldnt say its a crack in the dam, but it will be really interesting to watch what happens for other Republican Leaders who have insisted that the election was stolen. Lindsey graham, ted cruz, jim jordan, a host of people, many of whom are closely tied to mark meadows and donald trump. Its such a good point. I dont know what it takes to break a dam personally, but mark meadows, jenna ellis, ken chesebro and the Election Office breaking guy, thats every aspect of the cue. Meadows saw the whing thing. Ellis was going state to state trying to manipulate the legislatures. Chesebro wrote the legal work for what they want wanted pence to do. Powell was the voting machine queen. In the same two hours that the person who was going to maybe be voted on the floor to be speaker collapsed because trump didnt like him because he wasnt maga enough on the election. It sounds like from abcs reporting one of the conditions, if it is true for which he received immunity, was this window and this testimony provided that there was never any evidence of fraud. And today a republican guy, who is to the right, couldnt be voted on the floor for speaker because he wasnt election denier eh. This is the incredible barrier here. As we seem to not be able to cross with facts. The facts are, as you said so well, as tim has said multiple times, from bill barr to Mitch Mcconnell to mark meadows, every Single Person that donald trump relied on, trusted and believed was on his side because they were on his side, warned him this isnt really real. Whether donald trump believed it was really real is still an open question. I think its really important that we figure out what happens after this. Well see whether or not the facts cross that barrier. I want to also underscore something that you raised earlier a minute ago. Which is the issue that so many of these people are lawyers, it communicates to me as a journali, who has covered a lot of lawyers, that they also know how much is at stake for them professionally and criminally this these cases. Some of these charges dont carry a lot of jail time, but if you are a lawyer who is going to be convicted of racketeering, Good Luck Practiing law again. If youre Sidney Powell, your law license is already being threatened very severely, but you practice in a state that prohibits convicted felons from practiing law. So her decision to plead to misdemeanor strikes me as pretty interesting. It strikes me as really interesting that many of the people who are leafing to get a plea are lawyers who have basically a livelihood at stake right now, and are looking at the facts and the possibility of conviction and the possibility of not being able to practice law again. Its so spot on. Its the part of the story that doesnt differ from any other prosecutions of criminal enterprises, which is what fani willis has charged in georgia. For anyone just joining us, were covering a legal and possibly a political earthquake. Abc news is exclusively reporting that former white house Chief Of Staff mark meadows has been granted immunity by jack smiths office. Ill read more to you. It gets at a lot of the intersection of what the committee developed evidence wise. Abc news is reporting, quote, trump was already questioning the integrity of the election months before election day. The Committee Successful live slid the timeline back with evidence developed through others. Back to abc, quote, then within hours of polls closing as trump was beginning lose key states, trump claimed on national tv it was all a major fraud, quote, frankly we did win this election. Mark meadows told jack smiths investigators earlier this yearlong believed trump was being dishon when he made that Statement Given the fact that votes were still being counted and the results from several states were not in yet. Testimony has shown in the weeks after the election, meadows helped Vet Allegations of fraud that were making their way from people like Rudy Giuliani, whom trump put in charge of legal efforts to keep trump in the white house. Meadows said by middecember, he privately informed trump that giuliani hadnt prove produced any evidence to back up the allegations he was making. Then Attorney General bill barr also informed trump and mark meadows in an Oval Office Meeting that allegations of Election Fraud were, quote, not panning out. So many intersections with the evidence you and the members of this select committee developed. To a point you made the first time i talked to you, none of the new evidence, none of the witnesses would be helpful to trump in terms of the facts. No, this is what happens when finally peoples backs are to the wall with potential Criminal Prosecution. It sounds like, according to the reporting, that the Special Counsel immunized mark meadows. He initially asserted his Fifth Amendment privilege because he does have criminal exposure. Hes part of this conspiracy. But then he had nowhere else to turn. He couldnt blow us off like he did with the committee. He finally had to tell the truth. So the Special Counsel is using that powerful tool. A as you just said, hes getting corroborative additional evidence. Again, the select committee made a decision that based on the record we developed, the evidence in the facts that we had had uncovered, there was more than sufficient evidence to lead to that criminal referral and to demonstrate the violations of federal criminal statute jack smith has gone beyond that. We didnt have this direct meadows. So what i always expected is exactly whats happening that the Special Counsel using the legal tools that are available uniquely to a criminal prosecutor with a grand jury investigatoring these facts, is aggressively crossing rating the core story. It doesnt change the narrative that we laid out. It only makes the case stronger. All of this, all of these pleas in georgia and the immunity in washington, the sense of the walls starting to close in, finally closer and closer to accountability. The Georgia Prosecution, again, we dont know much more than what were able to report from abc news, but that mark meadows encountered when he sought to have his charges being charged in the criminal conspiracy alongside trump and jen ellis and others, that failed and that may end up playing into a legal pressures he felt before federal investigators. Exactly. Maybe that testify he made to try to move that case to federal court, folks feel it backfired could have played into it. But the screws are tightening. Anything that happens, any sort of testimony he delivers in the jack smith case could work against him down here in georgia. We talk about the big fish earlier. Mark meadows is one of them along with Rudy Giuliani and the former prident. This is interesting. Abc news is reporting that meadows told jack smiths investigators that around the time of the rathens berger call, there were Times Hemented to resign over concerns the way certain allegations of fraud were being handled could have a negative impact, but he didnt leave because he wanted to help ensure a peaceful transfer of power. I think the electioners in georgia had their lives changed forever. They didnt see him trying to balance those things as he seals to have reportedly told investigators he did. But it is an extraordinary revision of overturning the election and specifically in georgia. That goes back to something we were just discussing, which is hes alleging hes doing one thing behind the scenes while publicly hes promoing lines. He made that surprise visit to georgia to watch a as Election Workers were counting absentee ballots. He played a part in that phone call. Regardless of what hes saying now, we know what he said publicly. Thats going to play anything everything that happens at the federal trial and the trial here in georgia. Let me little more. Specifically, the role of bill barrs stewardship and the extraordinary practice of investigating claims of voter fraud. Meadows told investigators he believes the justice did the was taking allegations of fraud seriously, properly investigating and doing all they could to find legitimate cases of fraud. He told investigators he relayed all that to trump a few weeks after the election. Similarly, as described by sources to abc news, despite telling investigators that giuliani never produced evidence of significant fraud in the election, his book refers to the efforts to expose the fraud and the dirty tricks on Election Night to people who rigged this election knew that these irregularities would come to light, so they conducted the operation that attacked anyone that dared to ask questions about what he had tone. It goes on to say, he conceded to investigators, quote, that he doesnt actually believe some of the statements in his own book. This is who they are. Mark meadows, to me, is one of the most fascinating characters for the reasons youre just flagging. He was a politician. He was not george bushess Chief Of Staff. The famous jim baker who told the president this is what youve got to do. He was a Chief Of Staff who was trying to please the president , please republicans on the hill and make sure that they stayed in power, and often please whichever audience he was in front of. It was a problem because he was telling the president , yes, sir, i understand we need to look into fraud he was on the phone call with brad saying im sorry, i think were going to find out there are quite a few more allegations and instances where dead people were being used as Voting Counts that were fraud leapt. He was saying things in front of the president that were enabling. And yet our reporting at the Washington Post indicates that behind the scenes, he was doing exactly what abc newss alleges hes told smith. And that was Pat Cipollone, with bill barr, he was quietly conferring and saying, lets just get to the transfer of power. Lets just land this plane. And its hard to be a Chief Of Staff who enables your president s willfully false claims that theres Election Fraud, which when all of that Election Fraud has been denied as false. And Chief Of Staff whose privately, quietly telling the entire cabinet hopefully this will all be over soon, friends lets just try to keep the president happy until then. Absolutely nothing on. Tim, let me read a little bit more from abcs report. It gets at what were talking about. Quote, had meadows went even further while promoting his book on rightwing media when asked by a podcast host if he believes the outcome of the 2020 election was fraudulent, meadows responded i do believe there are a number of fraudulent states. I have seen at least illegal activity in pennsylvania and in georgia referring to two key states that clinched the white house for biden. From abc news, under the penalty of perjury, meadows offered a vastly different assessment to jack smiths investigators telling them hes never seen any evidence of fraud that would undermine the elections outcome, according to what sources told abc news. One more person who may have spared someone a lengthy sentence, someone who went to the white house on after6th, my sthis arent with those people. They should pay the maximum penalty for their crimes, but they were in the Information Ecosl that mark meadows was knowingly stuffing to the gills with bs. I wont say it because it makes my eps nervous, but it is another example of a guy who if he has immunity, hes not going to jail. All the sorry saps that trump snookerred into going to washington today will. Exactly. The other thing that the report doesnt focus much on but is a really important part of the facts that meadows possesses, which is what happened inside of the dining room on january 6th. We developed a lot of testimony from Cassidy Hutchinson, his chief lieutenant and others, including a poignant moment where Pat Cipollone comes rushing down and says they are breaking into the capitol. Pat, we know he doesnt the to do anything. To the extent that hes fully truthful and corroborates the president s resistance to call off those same angry insurrectionists that are going to prison, when a lot of these lawyers and others are not, ats really, really significant. Again, it fwoez to state of mind. The president s refusal to aggressively speak out against the violence when it happens is really, really significant. I think the report says that the president over the course of the day after someone is shot, becomes increasingly concerned, but when implored early on to stop it and call it off, he says remain peaceful. Stay calm. It takes somebody getting murdered inside the capitol to finally change the narrative. Even then, an hour and a half later, he says we love you, but this is what happens. Madows can shed light on what was going on inside the dining room on january 6th, the minute to minute account, which potentially includes the president cheering for, gleefully looking at the violence and refusing to call it off. Hugely cig can for jack smith. The three of you are gathered to talk about other legal developments altogether. Well get to them another day. Thank you all. The best of the best. Thank you very much for spending this Breaking News half hour with us. We are grateful. Something special is still to come. When we come barks well be joined by someone who has forever be tied to this had story. Somebody who has been calling for accountability for january 6th since the first hours of the first day. He was at the capitol during the insurrection. His new book is out now and he will be our guest after a very short break. Dont go anywhere. Ry short break. Dont go anywhere. To a child, this is what conflict looks like. Children in ukraine are caught in the crossfire of war, forced to flee their homes. A steady stream of refugees has been coming across all day. Its bitterly cold. Lacking clean water and sanitation. Exposed to injury, hunger. Exhausted and shell shocked from what theyve been through. Every dollar you give can help bring a meal, a blanket, or simply hope to a child living in conflict. Please call or go online to givenowtosave. Org today with your gift of 10 a month, thats just 0. 33 a day. 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Just between us, you know whats better than mopping . Anything ugh. Well, i switched to swiffer wetjet, and its awesome. Its an allinone, that absorbs dirt and grime deep inside. And it helps prevent streaks and haze. Wetjet is so worth it. Love it, or your money back. sean i wish for the amazing new iphone 15 pro jason sean do you mean this one the one with titanium . Switch to verizon, and get iphone 15 pro on them. sean wow vo get iphone15 pro, apple tv 4k and 6 months of apple one. All three on us. Only on verizon. Wla i ask from you all is to get to the bottom of what happened, and that includes i echo the sentiments of the other officers sitting here, i use an analogy to describe what i want as a hitman. If a hitman is hired, he kills somebody, the hitman goes to jail. But not only does the hitman go to jail, but the person that hired them does. There was an attack carried out on january 6th, and a hit man sent them. I want you to get to the bottom of that. There is, perhaps, no other human who has shown more vulnerability and eloquence and sounded of greater call for justice in the wake of the brutal and deadly attack on january 6 lt on the u. S. Capitol and has become our dear friend, officer harry dunn. In his new book out today, you can buy it now, he explains why he has taken this role, why he decided to be so vocal about the need for accountability after the insurrection. He writes, i speak out not because i want something for me, but because i want accountability. I want people responsible for that day, including trump and anybody else who conspired to breach the capitol and try to halt our democracy, to pay a price. Just like we paid a price. I want us to never are repeat a day like that. It is a stain on our nation. Officer dunn has also started a vitally important conversation about the trauma hes endured that day and every day since as he continues to struggle. He says this, quote, im still struggling. Still trying to get back to the man i was. Im a lot better, but i came to realize that recovering from that day is going to be a long process. The hard part is accepting that i will probably never fully heal. Joining us at the table is our dear friend officer harry dunn, author of the new book standing my ground. Im so happy that this is out. Me too. Ooum so happy for you. I want to get into all the good stuff that i like to talk about with you, but i want to start with todays news. News of immunity for mark med does, and im not a lawyer, but i imagine he had had something good that jack smith thought was good enough to give him some sort of cover and immunity from prosecution. What do you think of that . You just had had all your great notes that i kind of deferred to when it comes to that type of news. However, i like people seeing held accountable for their actions and, clearly, there were actions that the former Chief Of Staff took that were criminal. Obviously, in The Grand Scheme of things, you want the entire case thats brought forth against donald trump and all the coconspirators, you want a successful guilty verdict and if thats what it takes to get it, i dont know if its the best way, but i defer to the legal minds. I just said that. You have all these sorry saps, and i dont feel bad for them, but you have all the insurrectionists, some sentenced to two decades, and if theres been immunity offered to mark meadows, likely no jail time for him. The foot soldiers, they are the ones getting slapped. It doesnt seem right. I dont know enough about what he he can and cannot offer, and i trust that the Justice Department is doing what they think is best to et get justice for the American People. My nonlegal analysis is it better be good. Lets talk about the boong book. I have had the privilege, youre always the first people i want to talk to whenever something on this front happens, but i didnt know about the role of your daughter. Talk about that. First of all, she humbles me in a way. Just now before today, i was getting ready to go on. Turn the tv on. Oh, cool. But on that day, the story that i tell about her is she was facetiming me as i was trying to find my phone to text my loved ones and tell everybodies i was okay. I wiped my eyes because i was crying and i didnt the her to see me. Daddy is okay. So i wiped my eyes with my coat jacket and it had remnants of pepper spray. And i smeared it further into my eyes. And even in the middle of an insurrection, you have to show up for your kid. I kept thinking, im going to make it home to my daughter. You also write about Something Else that has never come up. For the first time ever, youre given hhelmets. Why . I dont know. Thats the question. I made it clear that this is not a conspiracy. But its an unknown question that hasnt been answered yet. Like did they know ahead that this was going to be bad. People suffer issed a lot that day. And i think it will be fair for everybody to just get answers about everything, the totality of what happened that day, not just at the white house and the planning before, but the Security Failures and the leading up to the intel failures and all that stuff. I think all of that needs to have a big picture to show the failures of that day. That way we can be sure it doesnt happen again. You write in the part that i read about the healing. And i feel like we always end up here and i have two hours of things i want to ask you. Fear you wont get back to the man you were before. We didnt know you before. This is selfish. This is about us, not you, but here we are, welcome to 2023. But is there any part of you that feels like you could get used to this version of yourself in this role . And i know when you talk about trauma, everyone stops. You stick your arm in the Elevator Door and thes to tell your story. Is there any part of that that you sit with and think like well, maybe this was a different path, but also my purpose . Maybe. Like i said, i joined policing because i believed in the idea of Public Service and service to your country. My father is in the military. Just an idea of something bigger than yourself. So i have always had the idea of Public Service, but as far as getting back to that individual and embracing this new role, so to speak, we evolve as humans. When you are faced with trauma, you dont just stay right where you are. If you do, you succumb to it. Or you evolve and find a new purpose and i realize that i help people out just by being vulnerable, sticking your arm, people come and tell you their stoies. You have inspired me. It makes it worth it. Its a continuation of my publics service, but in a different capacity. Im not suggesting that anything makes it worth it to go through what you went through on that day. You find yourself in these situations where you clearly dont feel sorry for yourself ever. It doesnt come through on any page, where you have taken this worst day of probably all of your lives, and you have become this vessel for people to connect to and say, im not okay either. So when youre reading that, i say we as far as the book, theres trauma that we faced, thats not necessarily my coworkers. Thats this country. That wasnt an attack on american democracy, so everybody where youre on the front lines that day, or you were in california watching on your ipad, you felt some kind of trauma or if you did,s its valid because that was an attack on the system of government that governs us. So everybodys trauma is valid. What do you get the most . What is the thing i have seen you walking around. You also live with people who threaten you every day on social media. What is that like . You have to block it out. I have been fortunate. I havent had anything that escalated to the point where i was genuinely 100 concerned about maybe thats just my being naive. But im focused on a Bigger Picture to help individuals and inspire individuals to be resilient. Its not eases sit doing this. Thats standing my ground. And i ebb courage to stand their ground. Even when faced with adversity or tough times because its not easy. I do believe we live in a world where people want the to see you succeed. But theres a small amount of people that seem astronomical that want to see you fail. No matter who you are, those are the voices that drown out. I have the best viewers in television. And they love you so much. I hope you feel their love. But i will find the one person that thinks im a dip and obsess. But your top is lovely today and ten people and one person says its decent. And wait a minute, so the nine people you discount their positive opinion of you to focus on the one individual. Thats how we are. Were so hard on ourselves, we dont focusen the positives in our lives. We have to change our mind set. You get into it. I need to sneak in a quick break. Well be right back. Well be right back. Love you. Have a good day, behave yourself. Like she goes to work at three in the afternoon and sometimes gets off at midnight. She works a lot, a whole lot. We dont get to eat in the early morning. We just wait till we get to the school. So, yeah. Right now here in america, millions of kids like victoria and andre live with hunger, and the need to help them has never been greater. When you join your friends, neighbors and me to support no kid hungry, youll help hungry kids get the food they need. If we want to take care of our children, then we have to feed them. Your gift of just 0. 63 a day, only 19 a month at helpnokidhungry. Org right now will help provide healthy meals and hope. We want our children to grow and thrive and to just not have to worry and face themselves with the struggles that we endure. Nobody wants that for their children. Like if these programs didnt exist me and aj, we wouldnt probably get lunch at all. Please call or go online right now with your gift of just 19 a month. And when you use your credit card, youll receive this limited edition tshirt to show youre part of the team thats helping feed kids and change lives. If youre coming in hungry, theres no way you can listen to me teach, do this activity, work with this group. So starting their day with breakfast and ending their day with this big, beautiful snack is pretty incredible. Whether kids are learning at school or at home, your support will ensure they get the healthy meals they need to thrive. Because when you help feed kids, you feed their hopes, their dreams, and futures. Kids need you now more than ever. So please call this number right now to join me in helping hungry kids or go online to helpnokidhungry. Org and help feed hungry kids today. Back with harry is called ground. Let me read from it. Everyone as i imagine that day and the pleasure i will feel, im brought back to earth by a sobering reality. Even if trump is convicted, cant run for office, everyone if he goes to jail, even if everything i want the happen takes place, it wont be over. All those politicians rallying around him and his philosophy of hate will still support him behind bars. So will the qanon whackos, racists and conspiracy nuts. Fox news, news max and other conspiracy sites will continue to spread lies and advance policies that divide us by looking to blame and demonize one group of americans so another group of americans can feel superior. Its the most sort of astute and cogent analysis a this moment and our politics are our culture. Theyve subsumed one soot. But i feel the same way. I want the accountability for accountabilitys sake, but im not under any delusion it heals anything. Correct. Donald trump goes to jail, then, yay youre happy or but does the ideology of what trump represented, does the maga ideology, does it dissipate . I dont believe that it does. They just look for their next leader, so to speak. On a personal selfish level, ill celebrate that for a minute and then get back to the sobering reality that this country that we live in is still dominated with people that get ahead in life by spreading hate and bringing down others. How do we fix that . I dont know. I mean, i calling it out . Naming it is part of it, right . Naming it is part of it. But even still, people does that even work . Nothing has worked. I dont know. I wish i did know. But but i cant do nothing. You have to do something. Harryism. Until theres something until theres nothing that can be done, theres always something that can be done. Everybody has this little part of something they can do. But i dont know. So, when i was trying to help ukraine, i started calling all these famous people. I dont know any famous people except you. Oh, stop it. I said, listen, i dont know how busy you are, but i just thought it would be nice if everyone could do something more than nothing. Maybe thats how you change. You get everyone to do a little thing. Something different. And the betterment of mankind or this country, something for the betterment of others instead of just this selfish i dont know. I dont know. Its such a it sounds simple. How do you stop hating . How do you get the world to stop hating . You just dont hate. Sound simple, but we havent reached that point yet. I wonder what you where the book brought you in terms of your own journey. Like, i remember asking you about flashbacks. You said, theres no flash back because i didnt flash forward. Wheres the process of writing the book be being out talking about it done for the trauma of that day, january 6th . Im processing the fact that i wrote a whole book. Its a heck of an accomplishment. I have a hard time celebrating that accomplishment because i want it i didnt do it for an accomplishment. I did it to tell my story. Like Cassidy Hutchinson, for the record. Because theres so many people saying their record and they werent everyone there, which is completely false. Book is to educate the American People and hopefully to inspire people also. So im focused on that point now. I havent really haveh a time to reflect on how it made me feel. Now, the writing process is very cathartic, and there were moments where i where do you go next in this book . And i would just get frustrated and say, whats the point . So, it was very a sobering reality for me that helped me snap out of it and say, you know what . You got work to do. Keep it up. Stop feeling sorry for yourself. You told People Magazine you didnt want to heal. You want some of that drive. Doesnt that sound crazy . Who doesnt want to heal . This anger, this sadness that i have, its motivating me to still get on this tv and say, oh, him again . Yeah, me again. Get used to it. Hi. They love you. But its motivating me to continue to speak out and hopefully inspire somebody to i dont know, just make this make the world a better place, you know . I think you make every table you sit at im sure your daughter keep you honest, but you really do, its a privilege to know you. Thank you. Im so happy about the book, and i hope this is the first of many conversations about all the wisdom in it. Thank you for giving me the opportunity, too. I appreciate it. Are you kidding . We saw you in the first public hearing i said, we ned to know him. Not just book him, we need to know him. He need to be part of the our family. Congratulations on the book. 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Plus, you still have a shot at up to 100,000 in guaranteed prize money. Stop in while you can still win and shop your Favorite Brands sporting the kick off the Savings Monopoly Tag for unlimited bonus game tickets at lucky viktor orban. Anyone ever hear of him . Probably one of the strongest leaders anywhere in the world. Right . Hes the leader of turkey. Except he isnt. The hes the leader of hungary. If we hadnt had a news tsunami said i might have led with that. That was donald trump praising viktor orban, the authoritarian leader of hungary, not turkey. Of course when you pal around with the leader of autocrats its easy. Trump praises hungary. Praising dictators while unable to locate the country on the map would be funny if he werent the frontrunner for the republican nomination of these United States. Hi, nicolle. New reports mark meadows struck a new Immunity Deal. Thats the dig story nicolle referred to. Former aide and key witness Cassidy Hutchinson joins us tonight later in this program. That sho p
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