two hostages have been released by hamas. they are yocheved lifshitz and nurit yitzhak, two elderly women, according to a source. a release falling mediation by cutter and egypt. they were taken out of gaza by the red cross. the source telling nbc news that they are in good health. one of the hostages was in dire need of medication. you can see here, according to the times in israel, she was a founder of the of some of the most horrific violence that was inflicted upon israelis and the terrorisattack of october 7 by hamas. lifshitz is his peace activist who readily transported patients from gaza for medical treatment inside israel. her husband is believed to still be held captive i hamas. the release of two hostages comes days after two americans, judith and natalie were free from hamas on friday. this is where we start the hour with josh letterman. former cia director, senior national kersey as, john brennan is back. and then we have john hudson with us. with us at the table, executive producer of showtime, the host of the hell and water podcast. and then john kirby, he talked to my beloved colleague katy tur . he has agreed to stick around. joe kirby, i watch my skill colleague try to get some information out of you about these two hostages that have been released. i know you're being tightlipped for strategic and humanitarian reasons. is there anything you can share with us ? >> not right now, unfortunately, not colbert we are still trying to validate these reports. we hope it is accurate. we hope the more hostages have been released here. we are just not a bird -- able to validate those reports. >> what would it say if there are two more hostages being released and is news account suggested it is for humanitarian reasons? what would you glean from matt? >> the first thing we hope that it is a trend of more releases. hamas could just release everyone. we hope this means there is a process in place to get more hostages back with their families as appropriate. i have seen that hamas might be doing this to buy time. i will speak for the israelis or what they will or won't do on the battlefield. we don't that one more day should go with any hostages being held by hamas. they should all be released immediately. >> i had a chance to interview an individual for the red cross. that is one of the folks involved in helping to free the hostages, as is cutter. what can you tell us of the team that is working on these efforts? >> i'm going to be real careful about the details because we still have hostages we want to get out. we don't want to go with public domain must be torpedoed chances of success. we are talking robustly with partners in the region who have access to hamas that might help facilitate the kinds of transfers that we want. all that is going on very, very actively. we know we still have some americans that are being held hostage by hamas. we are working diligently to get them out. one day, when we get them all out, we will be able to lay out for everyone exactly how we did that. the energy is being applied very, very strategically. >> we are, in dealings, screen the legs up at 35,000 feet. this is some video from egyptian television of the two hostages, reportedly just released, yocheved lifshitz and nurit yitzhak . of course, if this is all verified and verifiable, john kirby, wonderful, wonderful, wonderful news for the families and community members. also, clearly the beginning of the beginning of unraveling the trauma that these two individuals have been through. >> they have been through a nightmare. they are going to need proper medical care right away. and they will probably need a chance to decompress and maybe even some mental health care as well, given what they have been through. i think we all need to make sure they have the time and space to do that. i think that is validated and they have been release. that is a terrific thing for them and their families. >> i want to ask you about a couple other developments. the new york times has issued an editor's note about a story that you came on talk to us about a couple times. it was a claim by hamas that they had struck a hospital. believe joe biden departed for israel, u.s. intelligence, before he left or soon after, was able to confirm or success -- assess that that loss of life that was called by palestinian jihad rocket launch, it was confirmed that the agencies and the new york times issuing an editor's note exclaiming the claim by hamas was given disproportionate weight in their coverage in the new york times editor's view. acknowledgment of the impact of information in this war. what you think of vacuum or >> commend the new york times to do that. i think that shows how seriously they take their obligations in reporting news information, particularly in past breaking events. we find that commendable. as i think you and i talked about last week, when things are moving fast, it really is important to not get out ahead of things. not talk about things before you know them. take a breath. taken the make sure you have the information right before you contextualize it a group like hamas, very much understand the disinformation. they understand the power of propaganda. they understand that it is not just a battle of bullets and bombs that they are fighting. it is a battle of the narrative. if they can win the public narrative, they can have strategic success. we have to make sure we don't get that space to them. if that means being a little slower and more careful, it is better for everyone that the truth can come out and fax can be represented appropriately >> i think there is an assessment among some that hamas is doing -- that the propaganda is getting around the world faster than the truth. what you think of vacuum or >> the truth can travel halfway around the world while the truth is still tying on shoes. in today's environment, we cannot find our shoes before that happens halfway around the world. that is important to recognize that we should not rush to judgment. we should get out ahead of it. i will say this, one, you can beat the punch if you know it is coming. you have seen it from this administration since the early days of the training conflict. when we can get information declassify and put into the public realm and get ahead of the adversary, we have been able to do that. two, maybe you cannot be the punch or get it before the child halfway around the world but you can put at imagery pretty can put out evidence and facts to dispute it. you just have to keep at that. you cannot be one and done. you have to do it over and over again. that is what we are focused on here. >> i know that is what probably keeps you marching out to the norwich -- north want to talk to people like me. i want to talk to about the increase in the threat assessment here at home. what can you tell us about vacuuming >> we are working closely here at the federal level with state and local authorities to try to identify and disrupt any threats, any hate filled crime threats throughout the country. whether it is anti-semitism, islamophobia, we are focused on this really, really in a sharp, sharp way. really coordinate with state and local authorities as best we can. that way people can worship, recreate in safety and security. there is no spillover effects from this conflict between israel and hamas. >> john kirby, i can only imagine what your phone looks like after spending all this time talking to katy and me. we will let you go. thank you for spending time with us today. >> good to be with you, nicole. >> josh, i'm coming to you. please tell us your latest understanding of what you have reportable about the release of the two hostages by hamas. >> reporter: here is what we know. we know that hamas has put out a statement from a spokesperson saying that they had released those two women. they need the women. i have spoken to israeli officials who confirmed those are the names of two women who have been released. we know that hamas says they decided to release these women on humanitarian grounds despite the fact that they say israel had refused to accept hostages back. israel mighty government has said that is propaganda. it is nonsense. we are also learning a little bit more about how this release was carried out. with the red cross putting out a statement saying that just like with those release of the two americans, that they were directly involved and due to their neutral capacity, they could facilitate releasing those women from hamas custody over to the border. what we don't know is exactly where those women are right now and what condition they are in. there has been reporting from egyptian state media that they have arrived at the rafah border crossing. that is between the gaza strip and egypt. from there, they would need to somehow get to israel. there is a border crossing about six miles away from there between israel and egypt, which could be one route for them to get into israel. from there we would expect the israeli military to bring them to be reunited with family members, to undergo psychological and medical evaluations. as you pointed out, a source spoke to one of our colleagues, sing at least one of these women had health issues that needed to be addressed. that will be a big priority. another party will be to try to see what intelligence these women may have witnessed during more two weeks in captivity about how hamas is holding hostages. where they are holding him, what the schedule for guards that are controlling them are, whether they are being held along with other hostages. any information that is useful to israel as it tries to free the remaining, approximately 200 hoss is believed to be held in the gaza strip. according to john kirby, 10 american citizens. we have also heard in last half hour from a family representative for one of the two women, and they have confirmed she had been released. they are very desperate to see their loved ones in good health and see they have actually safely made it to israeli territory. the big question going forward is why exactly did hamas release these two women and whether they are going to release even more civilian hostages in the days ahead. hamas is said they are reeling to release all hostages if israel would agree to a cease- fire and stop airstrikes over the gaza strip. so far, israel has said that is not what they are considering. nbc news reporting it is one of the reason the u.s. is urging israel to hold off on the ground incursion and pump the brakes because of the possibility it could be a more fruitful way to get some of the remaining hostages in the gaza strip free. >> director brennan, let me bring you in on this. what would you guess is the conversation behind the scenes. just pick up on josh lederman reporting. this effort to free four hostages seems to, at least represent -- i don't want to overstate it -- an open channel. an opportunity for at least these four hostages. how do you think behind-the- scenes both in the u.s. and israel is playing out? >> i think it is pushing additional pressure on israel to delay or suspend the ground offensive that is pending i do think john kirby is appropriately cautious and not divulging the nature of the discussions and negotiations going on. i am sure that u.s. officials are stressing to the egyptians just how important it is to get these hostages out. they have some pressure over hamas. there are hamas offices in cutter as well as egypt. ahead of the political office. i'm sure these releases have been a result of cutter and egypt putting pressure on hamas. i'm sure that by hamas belize by releasing them in the trickle fashion that they are able to get this pressure to get israel to hold off on the offensive. it was pointed out there are over 200 hostages and doing two a week. again, i do think hamas is trying to see what else they can get in terms of waiting on this offensive. i think egyptians and qatar are playing important roles here. they do not negotiate with hamas or the egyptians. they will handle the transfer of these hostages from the hostages holders to the egyptians or israel. that is the icrc role. >> how would you assess the state of the israeli population and the dynamic in that country. obviously, the hostages are on the thoughts and minds of every israeli and many americans. as are the victims of the brutal slaughter. they screen footage today from their first responders, some of it was body cam footage of the heinous, heinous atrocities carried out by hamas terrorists. i wonder how you assess the public sentiment in israel. >> it is my impression that the public recognizes that the government has a tremendous dilemma that there is an overwhelming interest in destroying hamas and preventing it from ever carrying out these attacks again. at the same time, i do think there is growing concern about whether or not these hostages will be killed during an offensive either by hamas or as a result of the fighting. i do think there is increasing sentiment within israel to see whether or not there can be additional efforts made. i don't think the israelis are not going to launch this offensive. i would be very surprised if it goes on in another week or so without israel going in. at the same time, i think israel is feeling the pressure, not just from the public but also from external sources, including the united states and is trying to make sure that israel understands that we are very concerned about our citizens, as well as we need to be concerned about the potential conflict that could result from enough incidents. we need to take the measures to protect our diplomats, military personnel and others in the region that could be targeted because of the very high profile and public support to the israeli government. >> dr. brennan, how do you success -- ss dish mac -- do you view the inner term government as a check on what thought, maybe netanyahu before october 7 ? >> i think the government allows for there to be a full airing of views and he is a very compass military officer. i think this will allow there to be of thoughtful consideration of the different options that are available. it is my impression that the military, security and intelligence services recognize that there is no alternative to going in and trying to destroy hamas and his capabilities. i don't believe that there is division there that whether it should or should not go in. it is question how you do, when you do it and what invocations they are and what you have to do in the aftermath of that attack being launched? >> stay with us. i want to bring to the conversation washing post correspondent, john hudson, who we spoke to from parts in place around the world. i believe your stateside today. u.s. secretary of state antony blinken carrying on a tradition of burning the phone lines for the lack of a proper diplomatic turn. take me inside what you understand about today's release of the two more hostages. >> i just got off the phone with a government official who was directly briefed on the hostas negotiations. the question that i had is the same question we have all been talking about on this program so far. why does hamas want to do this? what is in it for them? what are they trying to do. this official told me it is genuinely a goodwill effort on their part. this is not how we usually think about hamas, in general. one thing it to keep in mind is right at the outset of the beginning of this new conflict, on october 7th, there was a firm israeli view that these hostages were, basically, lost to us. the israelis were going to go in and go in big. it would be a ferocious ground incursion. it was going to result in the elimination of hamas but also a lot of civilian casualties. that message of real skepticism about any prospect of hostage survival was also conveyed to u.s. officials. now, we are seeing there is a possibility, not only do we get two americans release but now we have two is really -- israelis release. there is a possibility of getting out more. the left testing that possibility play out in real time. the blooming aspect over all of this -- is this effective going to happen immediately? i believe is what director brennan said it is very likely that the israelis are still going to go in with a ground incursion. timing is the real living question here. thus far, the u.s. officials have been successful in conveying to the israelis all of the looming conflict and consequences and all the things at ha resulted in a ground incursion not happening as soon as all of us thought it was going to happen. >> john, one of the things that the secretary of state blinken has worked on is easing the suffering of the civilian population in gaza. he was working last weekend on the water. he has instrumental in helping to get aid into gaza. talk about those efforts. >> reporter: that has been one of the most frustrating and difficult issues to work on right now. it has been fits from the start. we had just gotten out of cairo and we heard from the u.s. side, we made an agreement that it will start flowing. and then you saw president biden arrive in israel and come back and say, we made an agreement on getting eight into gaza. it only just started. as we know, it is just a trickle. it is not enough. u.s. officials believe that many, many more trucks need to come in every day in order to satisfy the needs of water, fuel, electricity with this population of over 2 million. it has been actually difficult and slow going. we are seeing trucks move in. they want what they want and what they want is a steady and reliable flow. we will just have to watch and see if that ends up what happens as trucks try to flow in through the rafah border. >> the world endured four years of bizarre and aimless u.s. foreign policy. i thought it was issuing that liz cheney on the sunday shows nodded to the success of the biden administration's foreign policy. to a person, antony blinken, joe biden, lloyd austin -- they had said the same thing. all efforts should be made to avoid civilian deaths and suffering in gaza. it is clear. it is not popular in all corners of the left. most of the dissent is in their own party. they are stalwart. they are standing shoulder to shoulder with israel in a way that exceeds the expectations with all the critics on the right. >> reporter: it should not surprise anyone who knows joe biden's history. there is also -- yes, the overall message of everything biden has done and he has taken some risk in terms of provoking backlash, not in the region but the backlash of what people cleverly call the arab street and bracing netanyahu. a character that joe biden has not had a great relationship. has decided to put that aside and say this is too important to let that get in the way. he has taken some of the risks. there was a risk even going on this trip once the jordan summit got canceled. that all would be seen as one- sided. he's just going there to stand next to israel. the strategic game that he has played is by embracing israel and the way that he has and being so four square among center allies, he has given him room and credibility to play cards on the humanitarian front on the hostages and delaying the incursion in gaza. perhaps, having more influence with israel in terms of what director brennan said a minute ago, what is the right way to do it and the runway? what will this look like how we do it in a way that minimizes civilian casualties. the strength of the u.s. voice with israel on the inside is enhanced by this, somewhat risky in the world context political alliance where you're standing straight but embracing that yahoo's teams. and stand next to him there. that is a credit to joe biden and his understanding of how diplomacy is both a public and private gain. an inside game and an outside game. the other thing that is notable is not only did you see people like liz cheney, people on -- some of the people who have not been part of joe biden's course praising him. you also see, and having no effect on his overall political standing. we sat down multiple poles of his rating, still sitting exactly where it was. the most striking thing is that you have a higher degree of public approval for how the issue is being handled then for joe biden's handling of it. it is to say, negative partisanship in the country is so deep that there are people responding to pollsters by saying, i love the way we are handling this but i really -- i disagree with the way joe biden is handling this as if there is a distinction. >> is there anyone else driving policy? >> there is this chunk of people who are like, i love the way osama bin laden was killed but i will never give barack credit for it. it is that deep now. yes, he is doing a great job on this but i still think is a terrible president. it is the politics of it. it is immutable and not movable, even by bipartisan brace. >> that is fascinating. josh lederman, you stayed up for us. i want to give you the last word . jump in on anything we have been talking about our pick this up for me there. what is the perception among israelis among the value or importance with support of the administration provided? -- for biden? >> reporter: every israeli we have spoken to has been appreciative of the way that the u.s. has been so strong in not only supporting the right to self-defense but quickly sending additional weapons to the region, policing support for israel and all of these international forums. making the wartime visit, the first visit by a u.s. present to israel during a time of war. now, we are starting to see some israeli officials bristle at this pressure they are getting from washington to hold off on the ground offensive. they don't like putting the perception out there that israel is taking its cues from the u.s. they think that plays right into the hands of iran, where they have long accused israel being a puppet of the united states. coming out of this release, the big question is going to be whether there is a consensus that grows here in israel for holding off or putting some time before there is a ground offensive. israelis have been torn on desperate you heard john hudson alluded to this earlier. there has been a sense, even among the families of hostages who are currently in the gaza strip that israel after the terror attack that devastated the country, did not do nothing. they cannot have a few airstrikes and call it a day. israel had to, for its own national security, for its pride and sense of justice go into the gaza strip and wipe out hamas. the realization that doing so would create concern for the lives of the hostages. the remainder, even of the family said, we don't know what israel's government should do. this is two interests that are diverging and difficult to reconcile. now that we have seen this evidence, not once but twice, that hamas is willing to release hostages -- the question is whether public opinion will move in the direction of taking a little more time, as we seem israel for well over a week putting out all messages suggesting the ground incursion is imminent. it is about to happen. we heard from israeli officials saying they're making the final preparations to go in on the ground. and we have not seen it. really, there has been a decision that they needed more time to carry out, what if you days ago, they were saying what would happen right away. the big question whether this release will create one more reason for israel to take a deep breath before moving ahead with the ground incursion. >> josh lederman, we are grateful to have you there. thank you so much. i will ask everyone to stick around longer. still to come, we will turn to what john start talking about a little bit already, politics here at home. we talk about the decline of the republican party and i laid out for everyone to see in the house of representatives. essentially, frozen in place and incapable of doing any legislating at all. it nears another process to try -- and we can call that -- to elect a new speaker. plus what liz cheney is saying about threats and intimidation that have the defining tools in the gop's toolkit. four later, the ex-president federal criminal case is in the spotlight once again, thanks to new recordings between him and the australian billionaire, who donald trump, right on cue, is calling aware head -- red hair weirdo. don't go anywhere today. after advil. feeling better? on top of the worlddddd!!! before advil. advil targets pain at the source of inflammation. when pain comes for you, come back fast with advil liqui-gels. the chewy app has everything for pets. hungry pets, itchy pets, scratchy pets, and most importantly, your pet. every day great prices and 35% off your first authorship order. right to your door. download the chewy app. we got the house! right to 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conversations ? >> it absolutely is true that secretary blinken tries to avoid u.s. policy is much as possible. you are right that it is going to take an act of congress to satisfy this 15 or so billion dollars request for aid to israel. these are things we are talking about, including interceptors for the iron dome, small diameter bombs. a number of weapons and machine- gun weaponry that would be useful for the israelis in a ground invasion but also for the air assault they are waged in right now. when it comes to concerns, one thing that they know that they have in their back pocket is congress is the biggest advocates of israel with in the u.s. government right now. they know that there is baked in large support. it also is true that you do need a speaker for these things. it is increasingly the case that u.s. officials have to be explaining away the chaos in washington, d.c. to foreign partners, who are asking what is going to happen? what is happening in the body of power in the united states that provides the money for the military assistance programs? they are so important for israel and ukraine. and for our asian allies, vis-a- vis china. he has always tried to send the message that despite the chaos in washington, there is long- standing support for israel and it is not going to jeopardize the u.s. message. people can see, clear as day, what is happening in washington. seeing that there is still no speaker does feed into those concerns, no matter what the secretary says. >> dr. brennan, i hate to talk about third rails because the republican party wrapped both arms around them and maybe that is what happened to the brain cells. arming the iron dome used to be one of those things that republicans did not mess with. and their actions and capacity to keep their word about standing with any of our allies is wiped out. you could still write the political ads to run against the republicans, leaving israel stranded while they are burying -- burying their dead. the policy is even worse. >> yes, nicole. the contrast between the dysfunctional republican-led house and the effectiveness of a democratic administration could not be more stark. it is clear that the biden administration has handled this crisis with israel as best as it could. following up on your previous conversation in the last segment, the credibility the biden administration with key players is second to none. when you think about president biden, jake sullivan at the white house and you have antony blinken, bill burns and haynes over intelligence. these are the people who have lived through middle east crises in the past. they are steeped in that experience and expertise. their ability to navigate a very complex environment, i think, is demonstrated by how well this is happened so far. therefore, i think what is happening in the house, where we are trying to make sure that our close ally and partners, israel and ukraine, will continue to be supported by the united states. the fact that the house republicans cannot get their act together and choose a speaker, it does show that there is this division within the republican party, the extremism that israel is undermining not just a republican party political prospects but also hurting our national security at a time that we need to make sure we are able to follow through on the commitments we have made to our partners overseas. >> it is the most tectonic shifts in politics. not just the better party but the only one. the only one with the storefront open. john hudson, thank you for being with us. we will pick up the story on the other side. when we come back we will turn to this, the circus on capitol hill. much more next. when moderate to severe ulcerative colitis takes you off course. put it in check with rinvoq, a once-daily pill. when i wanted to see results fast, rinvoq delivered rapid symptom relief and helped leave bathroom urgency behind. check. when uc tried to slow me down... i got lasting, 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mention the potential government shutdown less than 30 days away. it has been 20 days since mccarthy was ousted from his position as speaker. republicans are still going back to the drawing board every 30 hours. nine candidates are vying to be the party's official nominee for speaker. there are set to meet with the caucus behind closed doors a few hours frnow. the lawmare ing for the job include veterans of the hous committee chairman, a top member of repuican leadership and a sophomore -- virtually none have the commanding profile normally required of the speaker, not only second in line to the presidencybut a key fundraiser for the effos protect and expand the majority. they will have togatethe same treacherous dynamics of a divided conference that the three men before them cannot. leading some republicans openly questioning whether anyone can win a majority vote on the house floor. it should not be lost on anyone that kevin mccarthy shares much of the blame for the paralysis in the house and the decline of the republican party. here his his former deputy, liz cheney. >> what we have seen is a result of the leadership decisions that kevin mccarthy made all the way back after the 2020 election and after january 6th. looking the other way in the face of the assault on our democracy that we have seen from donald trump and his allies in the house, including jim jordan. elevating those members, frankly, some of whom are white supremacist and some of who are anti-semitic. a number of whom were involved directly in the attempts to seize power and overturn the election. it is not a surprise when you see that those people have been in power. >> mccarthy is in -- >> the race to lead a party driven by extremism, and the words of liz cheney, including white supremacist anti-semitic individual's has been defined by the specter of violence, members who oppose jim jordan's speakership, have intimidation against them, their spouses and kids. here's what cheney had to say about that. >> the domestic threats are being driven by donald trump and, unfortunate, some supporters, who have encouraged and taken steps that have resulted in, as we saw on january 6th, political violence. we have a member of congress, reportedly, warren davidson from ohio, in a meeting with jim jordan last week, when some of the holdout raised that they would getting death threats. when said that is not jim jordan's fall. that is your fault for voting against him but that is violence that actually has no place in this party. and no place in our country. >> joining our conversation is former senator mccaskill and myles taylor. now, a former member of the republican party. there is so much reaping what they sow. it is a crisis to have the house in the situation. >> normally what you have in the internal caucus politics, the speakership will be open or some leadership will be open. there is a lot of people who want that position. there'll be chaos because there is much people you never heard of and they will split the votes. eventually we will settle on the consensus candidate. they tried the candidate. they are now gone. and now we are done with all these people, i mean -- even the ones who are left -- less objectionable, it is ludicrous they would be the second elastic session for the speaker of the house. it is a ridiculous notion. there is no prospect that any of these people, as a brad brach matter, will hold together the votes to have the speakership. we face a prolonged period -- we were worried about a government shutdown. we arty have a house of representative shutdown. that shutdown has begun. there is not a single realistic forecast by which anyone can play out the endgame of how we end up with a speaker, any speaker, who will get the number of vote. from the political perspective, you know, americans are disengaged from politics. they've had a lot of things on their mind. they're not focused on this. they had no idea that jim jordan tried three times. it has gotten so big that it is -- the notion of the republicans who have the majority cannot pick a leader among themselves and get a speaker of the house, which is what they have fought for with this last cycle. now they are in charge of one branch of government and they cannot pick someone to run it. that is the kind of being that someone is upping attention at all in any congressional district on the country goes, is that serious? >> they may not be paying attention until donald trump and john kennedy went majority. now they know the candidate loss. >> when a lot of voters, who are the ultimate swing voters, persuadable voters, this is a joke that the majority party cannot pick eight -- cannot just install a speaker. that is the kind of thing that spells dysfunction and incompetence, spells that you guys are out. let us go back to the other party. >> are we at flip a coin? the establishment guy was steve scalise. they had a plan for strategic humiliation to peel off more and more vote. he threw the towel in. we are at spin the bottle? what are they doing ? >> there is three questions that have to be answered. one, who do you believe won the election? there is only two candidates d free election of the fair american people. only two of the nine voted to certify the election. the second question, will you keep the government open? anthe third question, will you support ukraine ? the problem is that if anyone answers with the correct answer on those three questions, they cannot win. if they answer the other way, they cannot win. the appropriators will not put up the armed service committee will not put up a spker who will not support ukraine and will not support appropriations and will not support funding the government. you either are going to lose the 10 crazy people or you lose the 10 people who believe the institution is worth preserving and not tearing down. i don't know how they come out of this, i really don't. i don't see how they do it without, eventually, having people realize that the democrats don't want to pick a speaker. they don't want to have a democratic speaker. they just want to have a rules committee that is not controlled by the crazy caucus. i don't think that is a big ask. >> myles, i am also worried that they voted to certify but they also joined the texas lawsuit. there is no one who is clean on the 2020 election. >> you are absolutely right, nicole. that is why i think the framing around this needs to change a little bit. we are talking about this like it is a civil war within the republican party. i want to flip the script. i don't think it is a civil war on the republican party. i think what we are watching is the last dying gas of the moderates in the republican party. there are handful of moderates hanging on by a shoestring the data shows that if you go back and look with david and malice have this a couple years ago, when donald trump came into the office there were 293 republicans in congress in the house and senate. by the time he left, those numbers had been gutted in half, in terms of the moderates that were in congress. most of them got in the primaries or self-selected outward during trout's presidency, there was a hollowing out of the center of the republican party. senator mccaskill reversed them as the crazy caucus. i would submit they are not a caucus anymore. it is a republican party is now overtaken by the crazies we are seeing the result of that. i look at you list that should on the screen, i see what satwo years ago. whoever is the speaker for the republicanis ing to be donald trump with his hand around the gavel. are going to against trump just like kevin mccarthy was donald trump's spirit holding the speaker's gavel, i think almostny of those people if they win are probably going to cater toward trumpism even if they're trying to carve out a lane a little toward the center. that is the worry as we still have a party that's completely commanded by one person, one rson's views, and one person's vitriol. that's what we're witnessing as the dying gasp of the moderates. and those extremists really cementing their control over the party. and as a result we are seeing the chaos that is an output of those crazies taking over the gop. >> i mean, claire, i guess the only caveat to what miles is articulating, which i agree with, is that trump has a limp grip on the gavel. he couldn't get his guy over the hump. so where does that leave us? >> well, that's just it. i don't disagree that trump has overtaken the republican party and that moderates have been afraid to stand up. now, the squishy ones stood up to jordan. and they grew. and they became emboldened. they went from less than 20 to 25 in three votes. so, you know, i don't know if those moderates are going to stand their ground or if they are going to fold because of the immense pressure they're all feeling. i mean, jon's right. on the world stage right now, the people who pay attention to what we're doing in washington, and believe me, a lot of important, powerful people in many countries pay very close attention. they see one party that has adults and they see another party that looks like they're in junior high, that they're children, that they can't even decide who is going to lead the band. and it really makes the republican party look incompetent. totally incompetent. and i do think that with every passing day, you know, any -- i read somewhere today that somebody said oh, no one will remember this next november. oh, yeah, they will. democrats will make sure they remember. they will definitely remember. >> it could still be going on next november. >> when does it end? >> i'm not sure it does. we have a longer discussion. i go back to the thing we said the day this all started to happen when mccarthy went down, which is there's this sigmund freud, the narcissism of small differences. >> i love that. >> this is not about civil wars. miles is right. it's about a community that's become so homogenous and so in the thrall of this cult of personality that they find themselves having these petty little arguments -- they're about these little tiny differences they have amongst themselves. it's not about some ideological cleavage or cleavages of principle. it's just about a bunch of squabbling children because they all basically believe the same thing, twhas trump is god. >> we'll do an hour on that because i think that's so right. claire, miles and john heilemann, i'm so sorry this was abbreviated by breaking news but thank you so much for spending time with us. another break, we'll be right back. time with us another break, we'll be right back ♪ tourists tourists that turn into scientists. tourists photographing thousands of miles of remote coral reefs. that can be analyzed by ai in real time. ♪ so researchers can identify which areas are at risk. and help life underwater flourish. ♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ cargurus. shop. buy. sell. online. detroit and the jewish community there and well beyond is in mourning after the shocking death of samantha woll, the president of a prominent detroit synagogue. she was found stabbed to death outside of her home on saturday morning. police today said that there is no evidence suggesting that her murder was a hate crime. but obviously it comes at a time when jewish americans and jewish communities are on edge in the wake of the terror attacks in israel that marked the biggest mass murder of jewish people since the holocaust. woll worked for michigan democrats alissa slotkin and attorney general dana nessel. in a statement posted on x nessel wrote this, "sam was as kind a person as i've ever known. she was driven by her sincere love of her community, her state and her country. sam truly used her faith and activism to create a better place for everyone." when we come back, a new character in the classified documents case for jack smith. the very latest on that front. next. k smith. the very latest on that front. next i 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(♪♪) i was stuck. unresolved depression symptoms were in my way. i needed more from my antidepressant. vraylar helped give it a lift. adding vraylar to an antidepressant... is clinically proven to help relieve overall depression symptoms... ...better than an antidepressant alone. and in vraylar clinical studies, most saw no substantial impact on weight. elderly dementia patients have increased risk of death or stroke. report unusual changes in behavior or suicidal thoughts. antidepressants can increase these in children and young adults. report fever, stiff muscles, or confusion, as these may be life-threatening, or uncontrolled muscle movements, which may be permanent. high blood sugar, which can lead to coma or death, weight gain, and high cholesterol may occur. movement dysfunction and restlessness are common side effects. stomach and sleep issues, dizziness, increased appetite, and fatigue are also common. side effects may not appear for several weeks. i didn't have to change my treatment. i just gave it a lift. ask about vraylar and learn how abbvie could help you save. brad says trump told him about an infamous phone call he made to the leader of ukraine. he wanted president zelenskyy to investigate the foreign business dealings of joe biden's son hunter in the hope of causing harm to his political rival. trump's boast was that he could and should have been much tougher. >> yeah sxhrks trump said, you know, that ukraine phone call, that was nothing compared to what i usually do. and he said, the ukraine phone call, that's nothing compared to what we usually talk about. hi again, everyone. it's now 5:00 in new york. secret recordings just made public reveal shocking private conversations that took place between the ex-president and australian billionaire anthony pratt. we'll reyou a little bit about who pratt is. pratt began cozying up to trump following the 2016 election. that's according to new reporting in today's "new york times." became a paying member of mar-a-lago and used his money to get trump's attention. it worked. the "times" reporting along with the private tapes obtained by "60 minutes" of australia, a snippet of which you just heard there, provide a much fuller cture of what president trump was like behind the scenes. as the "times" puts it, quote, new details of how an american president and an australian mutual self-interest, helped to document the transactional ethos of the trump presidency and show how trump melded his white house with his personal business in a way that according to prosecutors had ramifications for national security." which gets to the why do we care about this guy on the audiotapes at this point, anthony pratt? so anthony pratt is right now today of interest to us because he'sf interest to special counsel jack smith. according to reporting from earlier this month, pratt was interviewed by federal prosecutors and fbi agents at least twice this year in s investigation into trump's hoarding of classified cuments. it was reported that, quote, months after leaving the white house trump allegedly discussed possibly sensitive information about u.s. nuclear bmarines with pratt. who went on to share that information about u.s. nuclear submarines with, quote, 45 others including six journalists, 11 of his company' employees, 10 australian officials, three australian prime ministers, and a partridge in a pear tree. now, we don't know if pratt was forthcoming with prosecutors in the same way he was on those tape recordings. but the recordings certainly reveal and depict a former leader woefully unconcerned about any aspect of u.s. national secur and protecting america's secrets. more from that "times" report today. "the private comment captured while trump wastill president provide a rare glimpse into a businessman on the other side oftrump's transactions actually viewed the new york real estate developer's tactics, with a mix of blunt acknowledgment and admiration for someone so willing to test the boundaries of the american presidency." trump denies the "times" reporting calling it, wait for it, fake news. he even calls pratt a, quote, red-haired weirdo, end quote. representatives for pratt didn't respond to several requests for comment. that is with we start the hour with some of our most favorite experts and friends. former acting assistant attorney general for national security at the u.s. department of justice mary mccord is here. plus our friend andrew weissmann is back with us. also a top former official with the justice department. and former fbi counterintelligence agent pete strzok is here. pete strzok, i start with you because i believe the title of your book gets just at this. a president who is compromised by, to be totally blunt, his business failures, his desperate need for money and his complete lack of regard for u.s. national security. what do you make of this new reporting? >> nicolle, i think as you look at what jack smith appears to be pursuing, he's exploring all the different ways and reasons that donald trump may have kept classified information. now, the interesting thing is those are exactly the ways that a hostile foreign intelligence service would seek to elicit classified information from him. so whether he's, you know, trying to, you know, denigrate mark milley by presenting classified information about an iran war plan, whether he's trying to get additional donations from an australian cardboard box manufacturer, whether he's posing with selfies with any number of scantily clad women around mar-a-lago, it is clear that one of the ways he is using this classified information that he kept or used that information is to, you know, make somebody look bad, is to impress somebody. but guess what. every intelligence service in the world, including the cia here at home, but overseas in russia and china, are well aware of using these exact motivations to ex-tracked classified information, to extract national defense information from people. that is their job. that's their profession. and they have millions and millions of dollars to do it. and so what we're seeing is evidence that when it comes to trump these techniques work. and what i worry about is not so much what he told some australian business, although it concerns me hugely and is just devastating if he's talking about the capabilities of our nuclear submarines. if he is doing that to a -- or sharing that with an australian businessman who's willing to describe that to jack smith, what on earth has he told somebody who's acting as an agent of the government of russia? of the government of china. somebody who has got in close to him and gotten the same sort of information. it is absolutely devastating from the perspective of what trump was not doing to protect our national security. and i think we're seeing jack smith just articulate and explore all the different reasons why trump kept this information. >> yeah. and i mean, andrew weissmann, an asset or an agent of russia seems mysterious. but mike flynn is still in trump's inner circle. he's very closely aligned with russia and russians. i mean, this is to me a sort of a pattern and practice reveal. right? there was a pattern and practice of revealing state secrets to people he was trying to hustle for business. i mean, i wonder what your current concerns are about what happened to the most sensitive information the government possesses. >> well, i definitely was anything of you, nicolle, when i was reading this story because you have said repeatedly that with donald trump there's nothing new. it's the same story. it is authoritarianism and embracing authoritarianism. i mean, being proud of it, boastful of it. even if it's not true that he's even tougher on calls than he was with zelenskyy. the fact that he thinks that's an appropriate thing to say because the call itself was horrendous. the idea that if it was true or even not true just reveals those authoritarian tendencies. pete is exactly right, that the dni investigation into the spill at mar-a-lago is exactly what you are worried about about the country's safety and security. it is what people like mary and pete spent their careers worrying about to keep this country safe. and we've talked about how it's really unfathomable that somebody could be the president of the united states and not understand that. and then the final thought i had was this idea that everybody's taping everything is just remarkable to me, that you know, when you're in the world of people talking to or with or about donald trump people feel like they need to tape it because everyone's willing to lie about what happened. there's just -- there seems to be no honor among thieves. and everyone's recording everything. which is why you sort of have the brad raffensperger tape, the secretary of state of georgia. because he thought you know, i'm going to need that. here i think the reason you're seeing this proliferation is because it's not like a normal presidency. you're not dealing with people who have any concern about the truth. >> yeah, and i mean, mary, again, this is in the news in part because it's of interest to jack smith. jack smith has reportedly spoken to mr. pratt. what specifically would jack smith need or do with mr. pratt? >> well, you know, the mar-a-lago case is still a pending case. there's a trial date in may. this case involves allegations that mr. trump and others mishandled classified documents and then he tried to conceal his mishandling of those documents by using his own employees at mar-a-lago. and part of, you know, this mishandling charge will be -- the case will be stronger if it shows how careless mr. trump was with national security information. so whether it is actually charged conduct, for example, telling mr. pratt some of our nation's secrets, things that are highly classified, whether it's about nuclear submarines or about our strike on qassam soleimani, the head of the iranian quds force, basically their terrorist wing, these are things that high likelihood these were highly classified and his willingness to tell people really for his own transactional business, personal interest, about them. it likesly will be admissible to show mr. trump's intent, his knowledge, the absence of any mistake because you know, sometimes he has said that he doesn't even know what was at mar-a-lago, it must have been mistakenly, you know, brought there in the hustle and bustle of clearing out the white house. other times of course he has said the exact opposite and said he declassified everything. but you know, it will be jack smith's burden to prove the intentional or the knowing at least mishandling of that classified information. so mr. smith is probably assessing whether he wants to call witnesses like mr. pratt in trial against mr. trump. >> you know, i always read these stories and i'm flattered that you think of me. i always think of sue gordon and i always think of that moment -- i think mary, you and andrew were here that day. you might have been here too, pete. when she got choked up talking about the stars. right? all the stars on the wall are people who will never have a road named after them or probably an elementary school named after them because they're men and women of the intelligence community who died serving their country and they were either covert or their missions were covert, so people will never celebrate them and never know them. all of those people have skin in the game when trump swings his, you know, business acumen around with people like mr. pratt. and i wonder -- we focused on the prosecution of trump. but what is the potential that we actually ever really know the threat that he was to u.s. national security, pete? >> i think, nicolle, it's really slim. i don't think there's any way we are going to know. it's just like him describing that oh, that call to zelenskyy that i had, the one by the way that he was impeached for, that somehow that was nothing compared to what he routinely did. so there's no doubt in my mind that their conversations with other foreign individuals, other foreign officials, domestic private actors where he disclosed extremely sensitive information. and just like he shared allegedly allied intelligence with sergei kislyak and lavrov in the oval office, i have no doubt that there's information that put human lives, sources of cia agents and officers at risk because donald trump simply did not appreciate and did not care about the value and the way that the information that he wagsz privileged to have as president of the united states to protect the national security of the united states, he had absolutely desire to protect that because he wanted to talk about it somehow. and i don't think we'll ever know the extent of what he disclosed. >> and i think the problem and the thing that wakes me up in the middle of the night is that all the people that understand what pete just articulated, andrew, they're over here and they're politically astute but they're not politically involved and all the people in our politics don't really understand the gravity of what people just articulated and donald trump right now as we sit here today is the front-runner for the republican nomination. he represents a grave threat to u.s. national security. he has deep disdain for the wounded veterans and those who died in service of our country. so says john kelly and mark milley. and we're just sort of sleepwalking toward another presidential cycle without these issues being front and center before the american people. how do we solve that, andrew weissmann? >> well, i don't have a solution but i do want to focus the lens and a light on the enablers. because you know, we would not be here if the gang of eight and the republicans who serve in the gang of eight, the sort of senior leadership in the senate and house who see the intelligence, who understand, who are serious people by and large, who understand how important that is to all of our safety, to not have attacks here like the ones that we've seen in israel, to make sure that another 9/11 does not happen here, there is such a complicity and lack of moral fortitude by people who know better. and the way that donald trump gets away with this is because he plays on fear, on actual fear of violence, fear of losing an election, fear of just being publicly humiliated and denigrated, and at some point you're thinking why did these people actually run for office? wasn't there some core of beliefs that is at the center of their being so that when they wake up and look in the mirror they actually think about the american public and if they lose their position in the senate or in congress so be it? because those people really know better and need to speak up and it shouldn't just be the people who are leaving the senate or congress, who are leaving their office who finally say something. it's really important for people to speak up now. i feel like i'm sort of channeling what cassidy hutchinson talked about, which is people really need to speak up. and i think that's the only way in which you will have any semblance of accountability. >> you know, i am interested in what liz cheney says, but i'm more interested in when she says it. and it was interesting to me that she was out yesterday. i mean, she -- it's the first time she's spoken since trump celebrated hezbollah, called them, quote, very smart. it's the first time she's sort of made an appearance since some of this new reporting came out. jon karl had some of it and we had it here when that first broke. and it's the first time that i think a broad coalition of americans realizes that if donald trump were president right now the world would be a much, much more dangerous place. with the middle east on a hair trigger. with threats of violence at home. with jewish american communities, with muslim american communities terrified right now. the country probably couldn't handle a trump presidency wherein his own chief of staff described him as, quote, the most damaged human being he'd ever seen and a couple of defense secretaries were out the door for cause, for things they saw that gave them concern about u.s. national security. how do you assess this moment, again, about 12 months ahead of another presidential election? >> i think liz cheney had it exactly right. it is incredibly dangerous to even think about a man like mr. trump becoming the president again. and just taking your example of what's happened in israel, of course one of the first things that mr. trump said is if i were still president this would have never happened. well, not so fast on that. but what i do think would be hard to imagine is that he would have reacted the same way that our government has reacted in terms of i think trying to really slow down some of the -- you know, the ground assault and some of the things that israel was talking about doing to retaliate. and granted, they have -- i shouldn't say retaliate because this is a foreign terrorist organization that committed that attack. they have every right under international law to take action against that foreign terrorist organization. but our administration rightly recognized that they have to do so in accordance with the laws of war and to make sure that the palestinian people that have no alignment -- those who have no alignment with hamas are not, you know, killed unnecessarily, deprived of humanitarian assistance unnecessarily. and it sounds from the most recent reporting that the administration has gone to great pains to sort of slow down a potential ground attack, to obviously have a significant role in the release of hostages, and also the bringing of humanitarian aid. and i don't want to suggest that it's been a perfect response. but imagine if donald trump were in office after that attack. is that the way he would have reacted? it's hard for me to imagine because to his mind, you know, power is in your force and your use of force. and again, you know, right after the attack he was saying this wouldn't have happened because he would have shown power through force. i find that, you know, terrifying to even think what would be happening right now in israel if he were the president. >> it's amazing. and it's really valuable. and i know we're looking forward and we're looking back. and i really appreciate all three of you for doing that. as a punishment slash reward i'm going to ask you to stick around. when we come back, a busy week in the very many investigations into the disgraced four times indicted ex-president. including the testimony tomorrow by one-time personal attorney for trump, michael cohen, in his civil fraud trial in new york city. and how a familiar move from the trump playbook may have just blown up in trump's face. we'll explain. plus, with two more hostages released by hamas, we'll look at the prospects of freeing the rest of the hotages held including as many as ten americans believed to be being held right now in gaza. state department spokesman matt miller will be our guest later in the broadcast. and there is growing concern about an uptick in attacks and threats against u.s. military bases and service members serving around the world and overseas. we'll cover that story as well. "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. ere's one thig we can all agree on. the promise of our constitution and the hope that liberty and justice is for all people. but here's the truth. attacks on our constitutional rights, yours and mine are greater than they've ever been. the right for all to vote. reproductive rights. the rights of immigrant families. the right to equal justice for black, brown and lgbtq+ folks. the time to act to protect our rights is now. that's why i'm hoping you'll join me today in supporting the american civil liberties union. it's easy to make a difference. just call or go online now and become an aclu guardian of liberty. all it takes is just $19 a month. only $0.63 a day. your monthly support will make you part of the movement to protect the rights of all people, including the fundamental right to vote. states are passing laws that would suppress the right to vote. we are 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to renew their registration until outstanding balances are paid. payment assistance is available. visit bayareafastrak.org/ase so go pay your unpaid tolls y and keep your wheels on the ! like a plate spinning routine at the circus, keeping up with every development in donald trump's various legal entanglements involves a great deal of concentration and maneuverability. le spin the plates together, heads on a swivel being very clear about which case is which case first. tomorrow former trump attorney and fixer michael cohen will testify in let-it yacht james's civil fraud trial into trump's allegedly phony finances for which he's already been found liable of fraud. after delay because of a health issue michael cohen, whose deposition was released publicly at the start of the trial, is expected to describe the ways in which trump inflated his assets. then there's the federal election interference case that's been brought by special counsel jack smith. late friday judge tanya chutkan agreed to temporarily lift her narrow gag order while trump's lawyers appeal the narrow gag order. what did trump do? he celebrated by doing precisely what he would have otherwise been barred from doing. by attacking, quote, deranged jack smith online by name and striking at the credibility of a potential witness in that trial. bu perhaps the most astounding developments this weekend had to do with the other criminal election probe, the one in fulton county, georgia. we told you on friday that trump campaign legal adviser kenneth cheseboro, a key figure in the fake electors scheme, became the third, count them, one, two, three, third co-defendant in that case to plead guilty. over the weekend his lawyer insisted his client did not implicate his ex-boss. watch that. >> i want to make something clear. he did not implicate anyone else. he implicated himself. in that particular charge. someone asked me earlier if you were donald trump would you be worried? and i could personally honestly answer no. and it's not that mr. cheseboro's trying to protect donald trump or anyone else. i personally do not believe the state will call him to testify on their behalf. >> of course that's tbd and they've all been charged as one criminal conspiracy. but you remember sidney "release the kraken" powell, she's another co-defendant in the fulton county case, another one who entered a guilty plea last week as well. well, yesterday as if on cue donald trump pulled his classic "i hardly knew her" routine suggesting via social media this. quote, miss powell is not my attorney and never was, end quote. fascinating claim to make given that trump himself announced that sidney powell had joined his legal team in a november 2020 tweet there on your screen. we're back with mary, andrew and pete. mary, where to start? it's a pupu platter of crimes and criming. let's go with the sidney powell distance. i imagine that to charge everybody who fani willis decided to charge, keeping in mind that there were i think more than a dozen others who were not charged, there was some strength in the evidence of who she ended up choosing. what is your sense of the dissing of sidney powell, the distance being put between trump and her in a public arena? >> well, as you indicated, this is par for the course for trump. you know, you and other journalists have shown over the years that anytime something happens he takes an opportunity to diss someone. journalists can come up with a tweet or a social media post from one, two, three, four years earlier that completely contradicts what he's saying now. i don't think we can trust really anything that mr. trump ever puts in a social media post. now, a lot of people have been talking about doesn't this just make it impossible for him to rely on any kind of advice of counsel defense based on the advice of -- that ms. powell might have provided to him when she was acting in some sort of capacity as a lawyer for the trump campaign or for trump himself. and i don't think, again, that his tweet alone or i guess it's not a tweet, his social media post alone will answer that legal question. that's something that will be litigated. and if in fact he and his team seek to rely on advice of counsel defense, that counsel being sidney powell. there's also the possibility that prosecutors in fulton county, georgia will seek to introduce some of the testimony of miss powell or even other things that she might have communicated to trump or his inner circle through other means and, you know, he may try to make an argument this is in fact -- i'm speaking about when he finally goes to trial there. that trial date hasn't been set yet in fulton county, georgia. he may try to make an argument that that's privileged communication as well. and that's something that will be litigated at the time. so it's certainly his statements are contrary to the showings that would need to be made to have either advice of counsel defense or an attorney-client privilege. but i don't think he's going to be -- i don't think a judge is going to find that his attorneys and he are bound by what he said in social media when it comes to actually litigating any issues of privilege or advice of claim. his other reasons that those are weak defenses including the crime fraud exception and other matters. but again, i this i we'll see litigation over these things. >> and that's why trump finds himself in the federal election interference case testing the boundaries of any effort to narrowly tailor any sort of gag order. andrew weissmann, what do you make of his conduct while judge tanya chutkan stayed the narrowly tailored gag order there pending his appeal? >> you know, mary and i were talking about this, which is i'm going to be a little bit contrarian to the view which is oh, he's definitely going to violate a gag order and doesn't care because i don't think he wants to go to jail. and so far at least the state court judge has made it very clear that that is a possibility. and if you notice, he didn't violate it until he knew that it was stayed. so then he went ahead and said something that would have been a violation. so to me this is -- it's deplorable, but it is rational and it shows that he actually is focusing on what he can and cannot do. so i think that these orders, judge chutkan, from judge engoron, will have an effect. remember that he's been given a wide swath of things that he can talk about. he can denigrate joe biden. he can denigrate the democratic party. the administration. he can talk about mike pence. there's a lot of things that he can do. and he certainly will do. what he -- what these are really focused on is not sort of calling people out by name and sort of exposing them to violence. we'll see what the court of appeals does. but i actually think if it stands this will have a deterrent effect on the way he conducts himself pending trial. >> pete, i can never sort of -- with a straight face have these conversations about what he thinks isn't enough. he was given the right to trash, to decimate and annihilate the credibility and the esteem of a government he once led, its department of justice. he was given permission to trash and annihilate and smear the president of the united states. he was given permission to do things that most people find, what weable but rational. i don't know if they're rational. but deplorable. and it wasn't enough. and i wonder what you make of sort of that profile, a defendant like that. what is he trying to do? >> i think he's trying to have his way, to satisfy his desire to not have anybody tell him what to do and do what he wants. he's like the kid you put the big red button in front of him and say no matter what you do don't push the button. and i'll be damned if trump doesn't just push that red button again and again and again. you know, i agree with andrew that he absolutely -- there's a high likelihood that he will follow the terms of an eventual gag order. but i'm also willing to bet that all of these tweets or blaets or whatever you call them, the things on truth social, with going to make it into the government's pleading they're doing this week. he is providing specific examples of things he was told not to do and the minute it was stayed he goes and he says it. so this helps the government's case. and going back to sidney powell, it's really interesting to me that he is bringing her up in the context of her representation of flynn, his pardoning of flynn, she is an unindicted co-conspirator in the federal case. she was introduced in the elite strike force briefing where rudy's face melted on november 19th. and then a week later she -- flynn was pardoned. less than a week later, on the 25th. so her entanglements in relationship to trump legally and the fact that he's getting in the weeds about talking about whether or not she represented him, that she didn't, that he pardoned flynn, that flynn was innocent and so many other people are innocent and oh, by the way, you other innocent people out there, if i might pardon you if i'm re-elected, these are all very kind of specific things that i am sure the d.c. circuit court of appeals will take into consideration because the government is going to make mention of them when those briefs come due. >> right. she also sat in the oval office in sort of the coup version of a pub crawl. right? started in the west wing, made her way to the residence. trying to get trump to name her special counsel to seize voting machines. so he's certainly familiar with her coup work. mary mccord, andrew weissmann, pete strzok, always a privilege to talk to any one of you, but all three of you at once is really a treat for us. thank you so much for starting us off. shifting gears a little bit to the story we brought you at the top, or the first hour. the release of two more hostages today amid a growing fear of a wider regional conflict in the mideast. state department spokesman our old friend matt miller will be our guest after a very short break. don't go anywhere. short break. don't go anywhere. type 2 diabetes? discover the ozempic® tri-zone. ♪ ♪ i got the power of 3. i lowered my a1c, cv risk, and lost some weight. in studies, the majority of people reached an a1c under 7 and maintained it. i'm under 7. ozempic® lowers the risk of major cardiovascular events such as stroke, heart attack, or death in adults also with known heart disease. i'm lowering my risk. adults lost up to 14 pounds. i lost some weight. ozempic® isn't for people with type 1 diabetes. don't share needles or pens, or reuse needles. don't take ozempic® if you or your family ever had medullary thyroid cancer, or have multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2, or if allergic to it. stop ozempic® and get medical help right away if you get a lump or swelling in your neck, severe stomach pain, or an allergic reaction. serious side effects may include pancreatitis. gallbladder problems may 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recognized by the apma. most commercially insured patients may pay as little as $0 copay. go to jubliarx.com now to get started. we go back to the breaking news we began our first hour with, the release today of two more hostages who were in the custody of hamas. yocheved live ships and nurit cooper. both of them were taken from a kibbutz one of them helped found. this brings the total number of hostages that were released since the 10-7 terror attack to four. and it comes amid reports that the u.s. government has urged israel to delay a potential ground invasion in gaza over concerns that an invision could impede efforts to bring the rest of the hostages including as many as ten americans host to their loved ones. joining us now, state department spokesman matt miller. thank you so much for being with us. i know how busy you must be. tell us what you know today about the release of two more hostages. >> obviously, we're very gratified to see the release of these two hostages. israeli citizens, which comes on top of the release on friday of two american citizens. really since the immediate aftermath of the attack on israel on october 7th one of the things we've been most focused on here is securing the release of hostages. secretary blinken that initial weekend started calling counterparts in the region, most particularly counterparts in qatar who have a long-standing relationship with hamas to make clear that any country that has influence over hamas should bring that influence to bear to try to get those -- to try to get all the hostages released. we continued that work when the secretary was touring the region last week, and it continues even today. the secretary had a call with the prime minister of qatar yesterday where he thanked them for their work today and urged them to keep working to try to secure the release of all hostages. there are still american citizens who we believe are hostages held inside gaza, and of course a great number of citizens ever other countries and of course primarily israeli citizens. >> matt, the secretary has hopscotched the reason since -- the first administration official i believe on the ground. he's had some extraordinarily powerful public pronouncements of support for israel. some very personal reactions to the horrors of the terrorist attack on the 7th. some important -- what seems to him to be important explanations of how hamas functions as a terror organization, how they endanger their own civilians. i wonder if you could just take us through what his focus is this week since he's been so central to the response. >> there are a number of things we continue to focus on. the big overarching strategic goal we have laid out from the beginning and we continue to really focus on is to try to prevent this conflict from widening. you've seen the president send very clear messages about that publicly. you saw the secretary send messages about that when we were in the region. and you've seen the president back that ip by sending two carrier groups to the eastern mediterranean to make clear to anyone hostile to israel who was thinking of entering this conflict that they should not do that. so we'll continue all of our diplomatic engagements to try to encourage other parties from widening this conflict. but then we have a number of discrete goals we've been focusing on. we already mentioned we're trying to get the release of all hostages being held by hamas. we're also working on getting aid flowing into gaza so that snichbtz who are victims of hamas's actions, that innocent civilians have the food water and medicine they need. we saw the rafah gate, the gate between gaza and egypt, open on saturday for the first time to allow aid in. that was the result of agreements that the secretary initially brokered and the president cemented when he was in the region. we saw aid flowing in the last three days, and we're working on a continuous mechanism to ensure that sustained aid can come in. and then we're also working at getting american citizens who are trapped inside gaza and want to leave, to get them to come out through the rafah gate. so we're working on that and hope to have some movement on that in the next couple of days. >> there's a clear degree of alarm from former national security folks that i talked to about the information side of the war, about the hamas -- hamas's ability to blame israel for the strike on the hospital and the tragic loss of innocent civilian life there before any responsible government could assess the intelligence available. i wonder if you have any reaction to the "new york times" editor's note today, adding some real deep context to why those initial accounts seemed to give in their own view too much emphasis to hamas's claim about something it turns out the governments of the united states of america, israel, canada and now france said was done by palestinian islamic jihad. >> yeah, i was really glad to see "the new york times" take that step. i think it's an important reminder that in breaking news situations i know that everyone is in a hurry to report the news but it's important in a situation like this when emotions really can be inflamed to take the time to get it right. i will tell you that the explosion at the hospital happened while we were still in the region and i was in my hotel room flipping around. and if you watched not just -- we could get some american tv over there, but arab tv especially. you could see how the reports of an israeli strike, which turned out to be incorrect, at least according to our assess sxmts israeli assessments and according to a number of independent validation checks, those claims turned out to be incorrect. when you could see how they instantly inflamed passions in the region. you saw protests happening all across the arab world, protests in a number of cases at our embassies. so i do think it's -- we are going to try to continue to get out the facts to the best of our ability. we're going to try to get them out as quick as i can. and i hope people reporting on what happens will take a beat, take a minute to make an assessment. certainly it's not to say that everyone ought to just trust the w0rd of the american government or israeli government. we do our best to get facts out but we deserve to be questioned and held to account and we welcome that. but certainly no one should be trusting the word of a vicious terror organization like hamas. >> what is this sort of last two weeks, what can you sort of pull back the kurt sxn share with us? i mean, we started -- and i have interviewed of families of loved ones taken hostage. the daughter of someone i interviewed lost her life. this is a country reeling from the trauma and the shock and the horror of the brutal slaughter of more jewish humans at any point since the holocaust. and a lot of these israelis are deep advocates for peace. a lot of people i've interviewed have said that right now they're in a lot of pain and they see their -- the innocent palestinians as lives that should be protected and improved as well. how do you -- how do you see things at this sort of two-week inflection point? >> it's a great question. and let me answer it by talking about the beginning of our trip last week and the end of our trip. so we started the trip in srael i think you referred to it about the remarks the secretary gave while he was here. and among other things one of the things we had the opportunity to do is the secretary sat down and met with the families of a number of american citizens who had died and a number of american citizens who had been taken hostage by hamas. we got to hear the trauma and the grief that they were experiencing. he got to tell them how hard we were going to work to try to bring hostages home. we could see a nation that was really traumatized, as you would expect. the impact of this was something on the order of 10 to 159/11s if you want to put it in american domestic context. then as we traveled around the region we kept hearing from arab leaders a number of things. number one, there wasn't really anyone in the region that would shed any concern for the demise of hamas. in fact, we heard great support for holding hamas accountable. but we also heard that israel and the united states and other countries needed to act responsibly to get humanitarian assistance in to innocent civilians to make sure they were protected to the greatest extent possible. and so that's why you saw at the end of the trip secretary blinken going back to israel and negotiating this initial agreement that the president then came and cemented when he was on the ground, when he was in the air talking by phone with president al sisi of egypt. we saw these two things at once. we saw an israel -- israeli public that really was rightfully shaken by these attacks and wanted to be able to respond and wanted to be able to hold hamas accountable as they should, but we also saw people in israel and people throughout the region saying we need to do something on the humanitarian side to ensure civilians are protected, and that's what we're trying to do. >> i was on the air that sunday when the secretary had multiple announcements about the water, and i joked at one point i think he's going to go turn it on himself. he briefed on it so many times. no, i mean, it's an extraordinary moment. obviously in israel. but obviously for your boss and for the administration. so whoever's playing music behind you, it's beautiful. thank you for just, you know, being a pro and staying in the zone with us. >> i admit i did not know they were going to start this in the middle of the interview. >> it's amazing. that's live tv for us. >> i'm going to have to talk to somebody about that. >> you didn't break face at all. tell them to call me. you deserve a race. matt miller, it's great to see you even under these very difficult circumstances. thank you, my friend. when we come back, there has been a sharp uptick as well in the number of threats and attacks against american military personnel in the dplaeft. middle east. we'll get the latest on that reporting from the pentagon. after a quick break. he pentagon. after a quick break. i have moderate to severe crohn's disease. now, there's skyrizi. ♪ things are looking up, i've got symptom relief. ♪ ♪ control of my crohn's means everything to me. ♪ ♪ control is everything to me. ♪ feel significant symptom relief at 4 weeks with skyrizi, including less abdominal pain and fewer bowel movements. skyrizi is the first il-23 inhibitor that can deliver remission and visibly improve damage of the intestinal lining. and the majority of people experienced long-lasting remission at one year. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine or plan to. liver problems may occur in crohn's disease. ♪ now's the time to ask 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escalation. we don't want to see a second or third front develop. we don't want to see our forces third front develop. if it happens, we're ready for it. >> that's antony blinken, one of several biden administration officials warnings about the threats against military personnel around the middle east. courtney kube is here with us. first, tell us what those threats are and what they're willing to do. >> reporter: they're taking this very seriously, nicolle. what we have seen is a number of what military have a one-way attack drones. they're loaded with explosives fly them in and hit into a military base, with the goal of hurting infrastructure, and injuring and killing u.s. personnel. we saw several last week. the jersey were shot down by base defenses. two of them actually evaded the base defenses and cost very minor injuries among u.s. personnel. the real concern is what one of these is effective. the concern is that could lead to a real escalation. in addition to these attacks -- these were at bases in syria and iraq -- there was a remarkable incident with the "uss kerney" there were at least land missiles filedly the they have historically not tried to attack israel. in fact, we didn't even know they had missiles that had the capability of flying upwards of 200 kilometers to strike in israel. iran has provided them with some of these advanced systems. it's not just the houthis, though. there's balad in lebanon, hezbollah in iraq and syria, according to u.s. officials, those are the ones that have been carrying out these attacks. >> courtney, are they working on an updated on changed assessment of the threats posed by the proxies in the region? >> reporter: i've got to say, and i'm not the only one, asking for any specifics about a direct specific threat. what we're seeing here, though, with the announcement over the weekend, secretary austin announcing the eisenhower strike group that was heading to the med, now heading to the water off the iran. in addition, the u.s. is sending some pretty defense systems, u.s. personnel have been put on prepare to deploy orders. the reason it's shifted further into the middle east is because of this recognition of this threat, that the u.s. is really concerned about it. what they're basing a lot of this on is history. in the past, when there's been some sort of chaos in the region, iran and these proxy groups this tried to take advantage of it or sxloilted. we really haven't seen the sort of attacks with mortars, rockets, indirect fire on military bases. s there's a real concern this is just the beginning of ticking up. we'll call you on to have a longer conversation. it could represent a real shift. we're so grateful to have you reporting on this, courtney. thank you so much. a quick break for us. we'll be right back. u so much. a quick break for us we'll be right back. safelite came right to us, and we could see exactly when they'd arrive with a replacement we could trust. that's service the way we want 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employer is funded by congress, therefore designated a foreign agent. the state department has pushed back, calling the it another case of russian government harassing american citizens. another break for us. we'll be right back. citizens. another break for us we'll be right back. more guitar, maybe some drums. -wow. so many choices. -yeah. like schwab. i can get full service wealth management, advice, invest on my own, and trade on thinkorswim. you know carl is the only front man you need. (phone rings) oh, i gotta take this, carl. it's schwab. schwab. (feedback rings) have a choice in how you invest with schwab. pano ai chooses t-mobile for business for 5g solutions... ...because t-mobile helps pano ai innovate, so they can stop the spread of wildfires. now's the time to see what america's largest 5g network can do for your business. thank you so much for letting us into your homes. we are beyond grateful. "the beat" with ari melber begins now. happy monday. >> thank you. welcome. there's two more hostages freed. also, congress's 2