45th president used one tactic, over and over again, to try and get what he wanted, bullying. Sometimes, it came in the form of want cruelty and bigotry directed towards everyone from war heroes, to disabled reporters, to judges of mexican heritage. Hes a war hero because he was captured. I like people that werent captured. Youve gotta see this guy, oh, i dont know what i said. I dont remember. We are building a wall, hes a mexican, we are building a wall between here and mexico. Sometimes it came in the form of hostile exchanges with the press. You know you are a fake, you know that. Its okay, i know youre not thinking. You never do. Im sorry . No, go ahead. You are a rude terrible person. Sometimes trump recruited other people to aid in the bullying, like encouraging crowds to beat up protesters, or getting fox news to pressure republican senators to oppose his impeachment. From the day he entered the president ial race, to his final days in office, trying to reverse the results of the 2020 election, trump thought he could get what he wanted by pressuring and intimidating the people around him. Even if it meant tearing apart american democracy. And now, his lawyers have been forced to try and defend that tactic in his january 6th criminal case in washington d. C. Two ex ago, trumps lawyers tried to argue that trump should be, quote, absolutely and from prosecution. Because all his false public statements about voter fraud and the aftermath of the 2020 election, all of those statements were actually part of his official duties as president. Their argument was grandiose, and maybe just a little unhinged. Heres an excerpt. The tradition of president s making public statements on matters of National Concern encompasses at some of the most historic president ial actions in american history, including George Washingtons farewell address, and abraham lincolns Gettysburg Address. Last night, special counsel jack smiths team offered a fairly blistering response. In staking his claim, trump purports to draw a parallel between his fraudulent efforts to overturn the results of an election that he lost, and the likes of abraham lincolns Gettysburg Address and George Washingtons farewell address. These things are not to like. So thats jack smith making it crystal clear, in case it wasnt already clear to just about everybody, that one of these things is not like the others. It seems, as we sit here on october 20th, 2023, that trumps Intimidation Tactics are failing on several fronts right now. Today, in the georgia conspiracy case, a third codefendant, kenneth chesebro, has now defied trump by taking a plea deal from prosecutors which is seriously problematic for trump, and which we will have a lot more on later this hour. But the place where trumps legacy, the legacy of bullying is facing its most humiliating defeat right now, is in congress. For years, Donald Trumps protegee, and bluster in intimidation, has been ohio congressman, jim jordan. Trump even awarded jim jordan the president ial medal of freedom for jordans service as trumps defender in congress, and an avatar of trumps rage. So we are clear here, this award is typically reserved for icons, people like michael jordan, and maya and gulu. Jim jordan has not passed a single bill in his entire congressional career. Now, trump endorsed jordan in his bid for Speaker Of The House, and the campaign to make jim jordan Speaker Of The House has been full of bullying and intimidation. Republicans who opposed to jordan received threatening emails from a fox news host, pressuring them to support jim jordan. Multiple republicans and their spouses received Death Threats from trump jordan supporters. One member of Congress Even got evicted from his own office in his home district. Yet, none of it has worked, none of it. Instead, all week, we have watched jim jordan slowly bleed support in his bid for speaker. That all culminated in todays third floor vote, which saw mr. Jordan received the fewest votes of any speaker candidate since the house became a 435 member body in the year 1929. And man, from there, it only got worse. Republicans then met behind closed doors, and voted to officially a nominate jim jordan, to depose him as their nominee. In todays public speaker vote on the house floor, 25 republicans broke with their party to oppose jim jordan. But behind closed doors, jim jordan got 86 votes, which is less than half of the republican conference. 112 republicans voted by Secret Ballot to reject jim jordan as their nominee. I told the conference it was an honor to be there, speaker designate. But i thought it was important that we all know, get an answer to the question if they wanted me to continue in that, in that role. So i put the question to them, they made a different decision. The most popular republican in the United States congress was just knife to by Secret Ballot in a private meeting in the basement of the capitol. Its as swampy as swamp gets. Jim jordan deserved better than that. Did he go . Jim jordans losses a win for opponents of trump style threats, and intimidation. But it is definitely not a sign that the Republican Party has its act together. In fact, it is quite the opposite. Republicans are now going back to square one. They have no one to replace jim jordan. Instead, almost a dozen candidates are actively considering running for that position. It is literally open season in the house. Having gone home for the weekend, i mean, why not . Republicans planned to hold yet another Candidate Forum behind closed doors, next week. The Republican Party is headless, and even its de facto leader is losing his edge. Joining me now are charlie dent, former Republican Congressman from pennsylvania, and Executive Director and Vice President of the Institute Congressional program, and tim miller, msnbc political analyst and writeratlarge thank you guys both for being here. Charlie, i would love to know, as someone who has served in congress, how jim jordan and his allies made such a catastrophic misjudgment of his fellow Party Members disdain for him . Well, it shouldnt be any surprise. I served with jim jordan, i know him on a personal level. We were friendly. But politically, we were miles apart. The problem is now jim jordan, he came in there, really to tear things down. He wasnt a bridge builder. Most people who ascended into leadership positions in the house conference are out there working with members, trying to help them as best they can. Jordan, that was never his style. So it should be no surprise to anybody that he was taken down. Not by fringe elements of the party, i would argue institutionalists, pragmatists, largely, members of the House Appropriations committee, who for years had to endure jim jordans attempt to blow up their spending bills, and heres the people who wanted to govern responsibly, and do the nations work. They paid him back these last few days. Because they said enough. They will only go so far, but they wont do that. So, i am not at all surprised that jim jordan didnt have that goodwill within the conference. Behind closed doors, but the number of people who opposed him went up by four fold. A lot of courage in a Secret Ballot. Im not at all surprised by that. Yeah, the closeddoor vote, tim, tells you all you need to know. Having said that, it does look like the campaign of fear and intimidation did not work this time around. I wonder if you extrapolate any further meeting from that . Well, i think that theres a two sided coin. On the one hand, its good that jim jordan went down. The bullying didnt work. Don bacon didnt fold because his wife got thank goodness for that. I think it shows that theres a limit to these kinds of threats and that maybe some of the Republican Party arent a spineless at this they might have seemed during the trump years. I think all of that is good news and Good Progress within the republican conference. On the other hand, going back to the Secret Ballot, the billion kind of worked, because only 20 some odd, 20, 25 people voted against jim jordan with their name next to it. But over 100 people voted against him, or abstained, in the private ballot. That leads you to believe there are a lot of people that didnt want to vote for him, but maybe they werent intimidated by the bullying, per se. Maybe there was one part of it, but i think one thing theyre worried about is the voters. Their own voters, and what their response would be. I think that is the key element here. I think donald trump was able to weaponize his own voters, his own base voters, against these politicians. And intimidate them. In some ways, from fear of primaries. But in other ways, from fear of physical violence. I dont know that jim jordan has the hold over the voters that donald trump does. So i dont think that this means that we are Out Of The Woods on this front. But i do think it was an encouraging day. Tim, just to followup on that. I am certainly not proposing that the age of intimidation is over. But i would suggest to you that the person who does it most effectively is donald trump. And everyone else sure tries, jim jordan included, maybe even some of the candidates for the republican president ial nomination. But its really trump saying. He deploys it to a degree of efficacy that no one else can seem to replicate. He does. He didnt really seem to have his heart in this one. Maybe we are in a different place, if trump was really campaigning for jordan, or up on the hill the last few days, and said hes been on the courtroom and on the golf course, it seems like. He endorsed jordan, but didnt seem to put a lot of him behind it. Trump, this has been trevor since 2015. I remember being on cable and discussing trump telling the crowd to knock the hell out of him, with regards to the protesters at his events. That shocked people. That was a scene change and acceptable rhetoric in our political discourse, eight years ago. Hes been honing that skill ever since. Obviously culminating january 6th. But i expect if hes going to be the nominee, which it looks like he is, were going to see a lot more of that in the coming year. Charlie, let me ask you about what the future is for House Republicans. Just from the outside, the party is in such profound disarray. I think we have 11 people considering running for speaker. How does this problem get solved among republicans only . Are democrats going to have to be involved in the solution here . Or do you think the party can really actually solve this problem on its own . Well, the House Republican conference is deeply fractured. Ive been saying for sometime now that Hakeem Jeffries is probably going to have to come in and help solve this problem. They need a, basically, a bipartisan solution, and a Power Sharing Agreement. By that, i if they empowered him on a basis, i think they could have some democratic votes, theyre going to need to do Something Like that. More pragmatic institutionalist republican, not an election denier. Split the committees evenly, despite the senate in the last session. Were each side had even representation. Maybe give the democrats shared Judiciary Committee just for fun. They could do all kinds of things to share power. Now, i think jeffries, hes had to help them on the debt ceiling, the budget agreement, as well as the recent continuing resolution to fund the government. Theyre going to need his help again. They might as well just accept that reality. Because i dont see any particular member right now getting 217 votes from republicans only. Maybe tom emmer has a shot, but whoever the republicans were to elect, is going to have to go around and cut a deal by November 17th to defund the government. Theyre going to need jeffrey to help. That individual will probably suffer the same filled as mccarthy. The place is deeply fractured. This is a fight between the institutionalists and the trump populist wing of the party. Im glad that we are actually having this fight. This fight shouldve happened years ago. But its happening now, because of enough of them are saying we cannot function like this. That populist weighing is really about tearing things down. It doesnt have a policy agenda. These institutionalists are truly want to govern, and they want to governing philosophy based on ideas. So this charlie, let me just ask you though, youre putting a lot of stock in the moderates here, right . Pushing back, not electing jordan. They are getting Death Threats. It seems like theyve been pushed to their limit. Why have they not yet to be made and treaties to the democrats . Why is there not a serious sort of migration of moderate republicans towards a bipartisan Power Sharing Agreement with democrats, at this point. What is standing in their way . The house has not done business for two weeks. There are urgent matters to attend to. It doesnt look like the problem can be solved internally. What is stopping them from talking to democrats in a series fashion, and just being done with this problem . I think they realize that if they take this step, that their political careers may be over. But sometimes, you have to risk your job in order to save it. This is one of those times. You need to say that not just for yourself, but for the good of the country, and frankly the good of the party, at the end of the day. So i think thats what the fear is. I know theyre going to be savage and attack, but by the way, this bullying, where they secure the steve bannon weighing on all these members, and the echo chamber starts screaming at them, that was a complete and utter disaster. Because these Leadership Fights are typically family fights. They are inside the room, type deals. These are not meant to be fought out in public. I think theres a lot of bitterness and resentful. Youre going after, say, don bacon, he used to our store on his shoulder. He was a general in the air force. That stuff is gonna work, especially attacking his wife. I think right now, the pragmatic members realize that this is our moment, this is a hill to die on. I think enough of them are going to make those types of overtures. I think they may have even done so, ive not spoken with him. But hes been offering this idea he knows he needs democratic votes. I have a feeling there have been back channel conversations, but nothing public yet. Tim, what does it tell you that the people who may save the party, and actually elect a speaker who can help govern would be ousted from their positions by republicans would be basically killed off by republicans, figuratively speaking, for doing the right thing here. It tells us where the energy and where the power within the party. At least, for now, right . I love her to change, but if the maga folks can throw these guys overboard for just trying to be the basic amount of covering, making sure we support israel, i think that tells you a lot about where the party. As charlie dent and tim miller, thank you both for joining me tonight. We will see what happens. We have lots more head. Amid the chaos and despair, we have some good news for you. Good news for you tonight, about the situation in the middle east. We are going to speak with a relative of the american hostages who were just released. But first, a third codefendant has taken a plea deal in fani williss Georgia Election interference case and what does it mean for rudy giuliani, john eastman, and yes, donald trump . That is next. Stay with us. Teeth sensitivity is so common. It immediately feels like somebodys poking directly on the nerve. I recommend sensodyne. Sensodyne toothpaste goes inside the tooth and calms the nerve down. And my patients say you know doc, it really works. 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