cut deep anywhere in the world, but it cuts deeper here in israel. october 7th, which was sacred, a sacred jewish holiday became the deadliest day for the jewish people since the holocaust. it has brought to the surface painful memories and scars left by millennia anti-semitism and the genocide of the jewish people. the world watched then. it knew, and the world did nothing. we will not stand by and do nothing again, not today, not tomorrow, not ever. >> president joe biden's trip was more than what you saw, a powerful, tangible, reaffirmation of the strength and durability of the u.s./israeli alliance. it was also a pblem solving diplomatic endeavor, one that has already yielded actual tangible results. the president announced earlier that the u.s. would provide $100 million in humanitarian assistance for palestinians in gaza and the west bank, that money goes towards things like clean water, food, hygiene support, medical care, that's according to the white house. for israel's part, prime minister benjamin netanyahu's office said today that it would allow some humanitarian supplies into hard hit gaza through egypt in the south, food, water, medicine, but no fuel and no humanitarian aid flowing through its own territory until and unless hamas releases the more than 200 hostages. those developments aside, another reason today was so historic and so important and, frankly, so fraught, was its backdrop. while president joe biden on the one hand worked to get supplies to those who so desperately need them, on the other his administration was focused on getting the truth out about a tragedy that was unfolded as we came here on the air yesterday. that tragic explosion at the hospital in gaza, one that left hundreds dead. last time we were together we had few concrete details outside of what our colleague raf sanchez reported was the, quote, fog of war. today there's some developments and updates in clarity to share with you. two senior u.s. officials telling nbc news the u.s. has an independent assessment that it was a rocket, but it was not fired from israel. instead it was fired from and by a palestinian, islamic jihad group. now, that group misfired and hit the hospital. we should be clear this palestinian islamic jihad group is a designated terror group, so designated by the united states government and others. israel concurs with this assessment. the idf today releasing this aerial video of the hospital, which they say shows the location of the failed launch on the part of the palestinian islamic jihad. israel also claims to have audio intercepts, which suggest that hamas knows that israel isn't and wasn't ever responsible for the tragic loss of life. but the palestinians absent any evidence and perhaps with the purposes and effect of just what you see on the screen are blaming israelis and israel. still, even as we speak, protests are spreading not just throughout gaza but in other parts of the world as well. just north in lebanon, demonstrations turned violent near the u.s. embassy in beirut. protesters threw rocks and fireworks, and were met with tear gas and water cannons. as we said, president joe biden is making his way back from this historic trip, still so dangerous, and his work appears to be just taking effect and getting started. let's bring in "new york times" pentagon correspondent, helene cooper and former chief of staff at the cia at the department of defense, jerry bash. your paper has that two u.s. government officials are saying the early assessment that this rocket that resulted in the tragic life resulted from jihad. >> thanks for having me. so the u.s. has been very quick to come out with their intel assessment saying basically that israel -- that this was not coming, this rocket was not fired by israel. it was fired by the palestinians. the reason why is, as you alluded to earlier, protests are spreading like lightning across the middle east over what people in the arab world view -- most people view as an atrocity, anytime you strike a hospital that's going to ignite a lot of protests over the tragic loss of life, the biden administration very much does not want to see this turn into like a global firestorm against the israelis, and so for that reason, they've been very quick to declassify the american intelligence. in the past, as you've seen with the ukraine war, sometimes they take some time to declassify intelligence, but this they came up with very quickly. our sources are telling us that they used three different strains of intel. one is what they got from the israelis themselves, which are these intercepts that israeli officials have given to american officials of what they said are palestinian fighters and hamas fighters talking about a mistaken rocket launch. that's one strain of intelligence, and that's coming from israel. the other two are open source, one of them is open source reports and that basically means videos from reporters on the ground, people on the ground who tweet, that sort of thing. the third one, which is probably the more -- the most in the eyes of the american intelligence community, the most verifiable is american infrared data itself that american officials say shows the rocket being fired from inside palestinian positions, not from israeli military positions. there is -- but this is all happening, you know, really, really fast, and they're dealing immediately with some degree of skepticism that is bound -- that was bound to come. and part of the reason for that is because israel does have as many critics have pointed out, there have been times in the past where israel has said that strikes were launched by palestinians that turned out to be israelis. one example is a year ago made the may 11th, for instance, killing of the palestinian american journalist, aabu akbel. idf said shefs she was killed by palestinians. investigations showed that she was killed by the shots that killed her from israeli military positions. so that doesn't help at all. but right now several american officials that i've talked to say they feel very firm in their belief that this was not coming from israel. >> jeremy bash, i pick up and the two of you are better sourced in this world than i am. i'm sure if i'm hearing it, you're hearing it in stereo, a deep fear that a charge against israel, like the charge that was made yesterday by palestinians, by hamas, by their allies around the world, charges that were amplified in this country is a newly accelerated danger, that there's always been the spread of information and disinformation that's jeopardized jewish americans or just american embassy staff or israeli embassy staff in parts of the world, but this is in hyper drive, in overdrive. i wonder if you think that means we'll see a real effort to do what helene just articulated, assessed, analyzed and declassified intelligence in realtime. >> nicole, i think the news media has to hold the mirror up to itself in this moment. if it weren't for headlines that said israeli strikes strikes hospital, there wouldn't be people in the streets outside u.s. embassies threatening our own people and inflaming tensions in the middle east. so i blame the journalists and the headline writers who rushed to judgment without any facts at all, and worse, actually, they took the word of the health ministry in gaza, which is of course a hamas-run health ministry, so it's kind of like right after 9/11 taking al qaeda's word over the united states about a civilian casualty event in afghanistan. it's absolutely irresponsible. furthermore, i would say that the arab leaders, the leader of egypt, canceling on the president of the united states while he's en route based on a lie. i mean, that is not a great look for our arab partners. now, of course, we can politically explain that they're responding to fury in the street, but that doesn't excuse it. leaders have to lead. they have to lead especially during moments of crisis. i wish they would have kept on the books the meeting with the president. i actually think that could have been a very construcive moment for the president of the united states to sit down with the israelis in the war cabinet and i say we need to have calm, level headedness. if there's going to be an effort to dismantle hamas, it should be constrained to gaza. it shouldn't spread to a wider war in the region. i really think this is an enormous irresponsible and dangerous moment that we saw unfold yesterday, and we have to be careful as this conflict moves forward not to repeat that mistake. >> so let's have that uncomfortable conversation. helene, i watched -- i was on the air when it happened, and i was rebuked before 4:10 p.m. yesterday by mary eisen, former colonel in the israeli army who thought it was irresponsible to have the pictures of the injured up. i came on the air and said we don't know who did this. the israelis are saying it was islamic jihad. the palestinians say it was israel. and the farthest any journalist from my news organization got was to chock it up to the fog of war, and that was the very, very experienced and wise raf sanchez. i checked "the new york times" headlines the whole time, and "the new york times" said rocket hits hospital, palestinians say. attributing it to the palestinians. if i could just ask you to pull back the curtain and tell me how you're grapping with this, not just the flow of information but the knowledge u.s. from national security officials who are very candid with their fears that people are going to get hurt based on the information coming out of the region. >> yeah, it's such an -- it's such a complex thing to cover. i think as, you know, as i was listening to jeremy, i know how careful that "the new york times" is about this sort of thing. i'm pretty sure without even going back and doing the check that there's no "new york times" headline that would immediately say israeli rocket hits a hospital in gaza because that's not how we -- i mean, we've been covering the war in ukraine. we've been in afghanistan. we've been down this road so many times, and it's -- you know, attributing prominence to something like that is crazy. however, i do think it's a bit of a stretch to think that there wouldn't be -- there would not be protests outside of embassies if there's an explosion at a palestinian hospital at the same time that there is -- there are israeli strikes in gaza. i think that's maybe asking a little bit too much. i think we have to be careful, though. this is such an incendiary situation. it's such an incendiary time and tempers are really, really fraught. you have -- on one hand, you have these israeli people who have just gone through this horrific, horrific attack at a time where they've been -- israel and the israeli government have been so focused for so long on iran, iran, and iran, and all of a sudden they get this home grown attack at a time where they weren't expecting it. that's going to do something to your psyche. you also have these strikes that are undoubtedly hitting palestinian civilians and flaring up tensions there. so it's a really raw time whether you're american, whether you're an israel supporter, whether you were concerned for the palestinians or whether you're an israeli citizen yourself, and every -- the level of emotion that is at play right now i think means that you're going to see these kinds of tensions and flares erupt all over the place. i think it is incumbent on the news media to be careful that we're not doing anything that further exacerbates the situation. >> yeah, i mean, jeremy, to helene's point, i will say i read all the "new york times" reporting last night. i read every story that dealt with this. it articulated that the careful nuances between one would happen, innocent civilians were hurt outside of this hospital and around the hospital, and there wasn't definitive information at this time yesterday about why that had happened. >> ooip sorry, nicole? >> i can hear you. i need to point out -- >> please. >> i'm looking at a headline from "the new york times" on the website that was subsequently changed that said israeli strike kills hundreds in hospital, palestinians say. what that headline says blaring across the entire top of the website, and of course i'm not suggesting this is helene. helene's an amazing reporter who's totally factual and i think her analysis of the intelligence spot on. i'm talking generally about the news media, when you say israeli strike kills hundreds in hospital, that is bs. that is hospital. >> you've got to add the palestinians say part of it. >> it wasn't palestinians, it was hamas that said it. we wouldn't credit al qaeda, we wouldn't credit hamas. hamas just committed an atrocity. why would any clear-thinking journalist say, well, hamas said that the israelis or the jews or whoever did something, why would we put that in the newspaper? it doesn't make any sense. and by the way, i'm not defending israel's actions. i'm just saying that as an american, as someone who cares about american national security as i see these images of people protesting in the street outside of our embassies and having world leaders cancel a meeting on the president because the media botched this entire story, i think there's some real -- there's so real analysis that people have to do about journalistic integrity. this is going to go on and on and on. i don't want to dominate the whole conversation about this one issue because president biden had an amazing visit today. >> we'll get to that, but let me just -- let me just traffic cop for a second and let helene respond and take the floor and say whatever she wants to say. i read through the stories and they were much more nuanced than that headline. i saw that headline as well, jeremy, i don't think it's there right now at 4:15. >> it's not, correct. >> i take your point, and what happened after that story was reported that way was the very consequential impact on the president's trip, which might have been more in flux than any of us, that jordan canceled, mahmoud abbas canceled. it turned out by this morning our time we knew that it was islamic jihad. and i guess i'm asking both of you because i feel like the good faith pursuit of truth is something that we all share is, and i just want to put it out there that the biggest struggle, the three biggest struggles, i think, so far are the heinous nature of the slaughter from 10/7 is impossible to figure out how to cover, right? i looked at the pictures that the israeli government released. i traumatized some of my staff because i thought it was important to see what had happened. we ended up broadcasting one of those pictures. i have learned and read about the skepticism with which the images of slaughtered infant was received in some corners. and i too saw the headline that jeremy saw yesterday, israel strikes hospital palestinians say. it feels like there is an asymmetry of skepticism, and helene, you're not guilty of it, so i wonder how you solve for that. >> yep. >> i don't know how you solve it. i don't know how you get -- except to continue to be as careful as you possibly can. i would like to take issue, i think, with this whole idea that you cannot attribute something to palestinians, palestinians say. it was not only hamas who said it. there were other palestinians who said it as well. we had reporters who were there, who spoke with palestinians, spoke with hamas, and spoke with other groups. i don't think this was a perfect headline by any stretch of the imagination, but i don't think it merits the sort of response that it's getting from jeremy because i think we often -- that's the whole point of journalism is you tell people where you're getting the information from. when the united states, for instance, bombed kabul with that errant strike after the abbey gate bombing and then said that they were bombing a truckload of terrorists and it turns out the united states had killed children, the stories we first wrote about it attribute -- attributed it -- attributed this bombing to the united states, but we also said in our initial headlines on that, biden administration says they bombed truckload of terrorists. we attributed that to u.s. officials. that's what you have to do. i do think -- i do think that the headline could have been better. i think it could have -- and i think it probably, you know, i'm sure "the new york times" is doing many, many after action reports, but i don't think you can -- you can selectively read what parts of the headline you want to and ignore the rest. the fact that it was attributed to palestinians. >> jeremy. >> well, unfortunately hamas is the government in gaza, so a health ministry in gaza is of course owned and controlled by hamas. we know that. they have -- let's just review the history. in 2005 and 2006 when the israelis departed gaza, there was an election there. hamas took over, and since then they've owned and controlled every single ministry. every palestinian spokesperson in gaza from a ministry is by definition hamas. the organization that committed this terrorist attack. so i think journalists and media organizations have to be extraordinarily careful and skeptical and judicious when attributing anything to palestinian authorities, leaders, ministry officials in gaza, period, full stop. as for other palestinians who might have been in the west bank, they were in no better position to judge the situation than israelis were. in fact, maybe even a worse position. so again, this was a very unfortunate situation, and i wouldn't make a big deal about it if i didn't think it had real world consequences t. has had real world consequences. it's made the idea of keeping this crisis contained, calm, you know, clear heads prevailing, it's made that much, much harder, and i just think we need to do better going forward. >> helene, i'll give you the last word if you want it. this wasn't the conversation we planned, but i'm so grateful for it. i think it's uncomfortable, but i think it's going to yield something important, so if you want the last word, go ahead and take it, helene. >> sure, i'm happy to, and i think it is a good conversation to have. i think as journalists we have to hold ourselves to the highest standards, especially when you're writing about this really, really -- this issue, which is so emotional on so many different sides, and i think we should welcome this kind of criticism, but i also think that the idea of this is all the press's fault is a little bit -- i think that's quite naive and that doesn't -- that doesn't recognize the depth of the feeling that you have. if you think that there was going to be a strike on -- or a -- on a hospital in the palestinian area in gaza and not have people reacting the way they have, i think that's a lot to ask. >> and again, jeremy, we can pick this up on the other side. helene, i want to thank you for starting us off today. really grateful to you. i think as we move forward, it's sort of publicly pulling the curtain back on our own sausage making that enhances, not that the "new york times" needs any enhancement of its credibility, but we certainly benefit from that and from yours. thank you so much for having this conversation. jeremy, i think you're going to stick around. we'll talk more about the president's historic trip to israel. obviously it happened against the backdrop of what we've been talking about. a story being communicated throughout the region that israel had done something, we'll talk about that a little more. still to come, another failed attempt from republicans to elect their new speaker of the house, which maybe wasn't too many of a surprise if you've been paying the smallest amount of attention to that story. jim jordan managed to get fewer votes today than he did yesterday. i'm not great at math, but i know that's not the right direction to go. we'll have a live report from capitol hill, and one of our favorite guests, congresswoman jasmine crockett will join us later. the conflict raging in the middle east has the potential to inflame tensions here at home, what's being done about a heightened threat environment, all that and more when "deadline white house" returns after a quick break. 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>> it's absolutely incredible tat that the commander in chief would travel to a war zone to an ally to stand shoulder to shoulder, to go into the war cabinet, sit with the israeli leaders, provide guidance, counsel, but fundamentally provide reassurance that the united states has israel's back. i think it was critically important for three audiences. first and foremost for the israeli people who are obviously still in mourning and in shock and having america back them has been uplifting to their spirits. the second audience i think was important was iran and hezbollah and those in the regions who might use this crisis to try to strike a blow against the united states or israel. and third, i think it was a very clear message to those palestinians and leadership of the arab world who do not like hamas and who want hamas destroyed. i've spoken to arab diplomats today, they said the measure of success is whether or not we can collectively destroy hamas. it was a message to them saying if you help join us in this fight, we can succeed. we can get humanitarian assistance into gaza by working collectively. we can open the rafah crossing. we can make sure that the refugees are taken care of. we can do the right thing by the humanitarian tragedy that's unfolding in gaza, and arab leaders and people in the palestinian communities, please join me. so i thought that was a phenomenally important message by the president as well. it was absolutely the finest hour by any president i have seen in a long, long time. i want to come back to the conversation you started by ripping the band-aid off, something that's happening off the air, but not in a lot of places on the air. i'm very grateful if that you did that on this show. i want to ask you about something i tried to get at with haviv gore yesterday, and that is the skepticism, and i want to ask you to sort of, if it's a pie, how much of the pie is skepticism about bibi netanyahu, how much of it is hard-wired anti-semitism, how much of it is american isolationism, and how much is something else we're not even talking about yet? >> it's such a great question, nicolle, and it's so hard to answer. i think we have to enter this conversation and knowing that bibi netanyahu and really almost any prime minister, almost every one has been somewhat divisive, somewhat controversial, has sort of commanded about half the support in the body politic in israel. yes, there's going to be some skepticism of him and his leadership. to his credit he has formed a national unity government, he's brought benny gantz into that government, he's sat with his opposition. i think right now the way the united states views this, government of israel is united and so, therefore, you know, when people want to blame israel, it really can't be seen as just about bibi or just about one political party you agree or disagree with. i think you're right, nicolle, there is tremendous skepticism on anything israel does. it's always been that way, and i think in america sometimes we just take for granted our security. you know, after 9/11, the war wasn't being fought on our borders. it was being fought in afghanistan. the war in israel is being fought on their borders. in america after 9/11, we didn't have a mass mobilization of every military, you know, person, male and female. they have that in israel at this hour. after 9/11 we didn't have hostages, hundreds of hostages taken by al qaeda. that's what they're dealing with in israel. israel's decision-making, i think, is undoubtedly -- people are sort of deriding it and saying it's emotional. of course it's emotional, but hopefully with guidance from the united states, with guidance from secretary blinken, jake sullivan, secretary austin, general kurilla who was there this week, israel will have good intelligence sharing, they'll have good discussions about con ops in gaza, they'll have good counterterrorism practices. they'll have as the president announced today, ammunition, iron dome intercepters, this is exactly what the alliance was built for. >> jeremy, this was president joe biden on back of the plane en route home from israel. >> jordan and his critic? >> do i have any what? >> do you have a view of jim jordan's current predicament, unable to secure the speakership? >> i ache for him. no. zero, none. none. >> mr. president, people all over the region are upset about the hospital and don't necessarily believe you or the israelis that they didn't have anything to do with it? do you have a message to people in the streets right now? >> i can understand why in this circumstance they wouldn't believe. i can understand that, but i would not -- you notice i don't say things like that unless i have faith in the source from which i've gotten it. our defense department says it's highly unlike that it was israelis, it had a different footprint. anyway, and so that's why if you notice i didn't say it first. i wanted to make sure that i knew, and look -- and i'm not suggesting that hamas deliberately did it either. that's the whole thing, got to know how to shoot straight, you know, and it's not the first time hamas has launched something that didn't function very well. so i don't know all the detail, but i do know the people at the defense department who i respect and the intelligence community that i respect it is highly improbable that israel did that. >> mr. president, are the israelis operating within the rules of war that you talked about last week being so important? >> good talking to you all. >> thank you, sir. >> thank you so much, sir. >> appreciate it. >> i mean, exactly what we were talking about, peter baker from "the new york times" there, obviously not watching the top of the 4:00 p.m. program here in the states asking the question about the skepticism that the people on the street protesting have about the intelligence produced by u.s. and israeli intelligence agencies. it's something that good journalists are grappling with, but that people took at face value, and now are riding outside of u.s. and israeli embassies. >> yeah, well, a lot gets halfway around the world before the truth gets its boots on. so what we're seeing here in realtime is that it took a moment for the u.s. to analyze the facts, but as the president of the united states just said, he has full confidence in his defense department, in his intelligence community, and they have briefed him that, in fact, it is highly unlikely this came from israel and as he said, hamas is ultimately responsible. he's not saying hamas directly targeted a hospital, although i wouldn't put it past them given what their record is and their use of human shields, but even assuming it was an errant missile that went off course or that failed, i think the right thing for journalists to do is basically say this was an islamic jihad missile based on all the evidence, islamic jihad killed hundreds of palestinians, if that's in fact what the facts on the ground bear out. that's what the united states is saying, and i think it's incredibly impactful that the president is showing moral courage. he's showing real moral courage. he's bucking a major narrative line that has taken hold in the arab world, and he's saying that's not true. now, i understand why you're upset if you were to believe that, but that was an erroneous belief, and it's now time to -- for cooler heads to prevail, and let's get back to the issue at hand, which is how do we collectively deter iran, come together to support the palestinian people in gaza with humanitarian assistance and fundamentally stand behind israel as they work to destroy hamas. >> jeremy bash, i always appreciate you. perhaps never more than today. thank you for airing some of these ideas and thoughts that everyone is grappling with, i really appreciate it. >> thanks. quick break for us, and then we'll turn to the other thing president joe biden there said, he was asked by a reporter if he felt bad for jim jordan, and he said, quote, i ache for him. obviously a joke. we'll turn to that next. we'll turn to that next. at humana, we believe your healthcare should evolve with you, and part of that evolution means choosing the right medicare plan for you. humana can help. with original medicare you're covered for hospital stays and doctor office visits, but you'll have to pay a deductible for each. a medicare supplement plan pays for some or all of your original medicare deductibles, but they may have higher monthly premiums and no prescription drug coverage. humana medicare advantage prescription drug plans include medical coverage, plus prescription drug coverage. and coverage for dental, vision, and hearing, all wrapped up into one convenient plan. plus, there's a cap on your out-of-pocket costs! humana has large networks of doctors, hospitals and specialists across 49 states. so, call or go online today and get your free decision guide. humana - a more human way to healthcare. that the total number of votes cast is 433 of which the honorable jim jordan of the state of ohio has received 199. the honorable hakeem jeffries of the state of new york has received 212. [ cheers and applause ] >> shame had not died and in glorious death in the republican party one might have felt some there. starting to feel a little bit like ground hog day on capitol hill where today ohio maga conservative jim jordan tried for the second day in a row to rally enough republican votes to become the speaker of the house and failed again by fewer votes -- he got fewer votes today than he did yesterday. going the wrong direction. as republicans scrambled to try to find a path, any path forward, there have been rumblings about empowering patrick mchenry allowing more house business to proceed forward without an official speaker but like a fill-in guy. it's been more than two weeks since republicans ousted their own kevin mccarthy leaving the spot, second in line to the presidency empty, with an unfolding war between israel and hamas getting underway and a looming government shutdown one month away, there is a universal need for a functioning legislative branch of government in the united states of america. joining us democratic congresswoman jasmine crockett of texas. she sits on the so-called weaponization committee that jim jordan runs. our good friend msnbc political analyst, charlie sykes is back. he's the editor at large for "the bulwark." congresswoman crockett, what's going on? it's a circus, but i am so excited because the votes went in the opposite direction, which means things are looking even worse for jim jordan. listen, jim jordan, you have covered him for so many years. you know that he's nothing more than an insurrectionist who it looks like covered up child sex terrible allegations of child abuse in addition to the fact that he's an election denier, in addition to the fact that he has never passed a bill let alone heaven a hearing on a bill in a committee. this is not someone who is equipped to have the job of speaker and this is the definition of failing up. so i am excited that there were 21 republicans that refused to support his candidacy, and honestly, they are probably the only 21 republicans that i think are qualified even to begin to have a conversation about what an interim speaker pro tem would look like. i don't think anyone else that would sign on to this extremist agenda with jim jordan would qualify. >> the congresswoman's right, i have covered him on this show for a very long time. his problem isn't with shows like ours. his problem is his own side. they're not that into him. are you surprised? >> >> oh, no, not at all. john adams once described himself as obnoxious and disliked, but he was a statesman. jim jordan is also obnoxious and disliked, but no one's ever going to mistake him for a statesman. it's absurd and dangerous, he has never legislated in his life. he has no real interest in governing or building anything up. all he can do is obstruct. what you're seeing is a certain amount of karma here, seeing, in fact, he and some of his, you know, fellow freedom caucus folks being served the same medicine that they had done to the rest of the conference. look, the republicans in that conference know jim jordan, they know what it means. it's depressing, i think, on one level to think that 90% of republicans actually think that jim jordan ought to be speaker. but at least you have 21 who are willing and able to do something that is a little bit unexpected for republicans. i mean, the moderates, the normies, the squishes did stand up, and republicans are not able to block the craziness of donald trump, but maybe, just maybe they're willing to block the craziness of jim jordan, the craziness and deplorability of jim jordan. >> it seems like jim jordan is a structural problem for republicans as well. if he wants to leave the chamber, it seems problematic to have someone whose name was on the 2020 ballot and isn't the questioning the voracity of his own re-election but won't acknowledge joe biden's election. it seems like even if you wanted to -- how do you impeach someone who you don't acknowledge is the president of the united states, charlie? >> that's just one aspect of jim jordan's unsuitability for this office. you know, he has always been -- he was described by john boehner, former republican speaker, we're not talking about a democrat, republican speaker, as a legislative terrorist, somebody who just tears things down. who blocks things, who tries to humiliate and undermine his own colleagues or certainly his colleagues who try to be grown-ups by getting things done. so now you're seeing this come around for him, and i think that, again, you mentioned it's a structural problem. whatever happens here, this house is going to remain in chaos. what i think is fascinating is as a measure of how extreme jordan and his supporters are, they are now mobilizing, they are hair on fire to block increased powers for their own republican colleague, patrick mchenry because that somehow would be a victory for the rinos and the democrats. their big enemy right now is a functioning house of representatives that is based on a bipartisan power sharing deal. so the whole notion that we need to, you know, elect some speaker, any speaker, you hear this from a lot of republicans including the head of the problem solver's caucus. we need to elect somebody so that the house is functioning again. it's a thoroughly ludicrous idea that you would ever have a functioning house of representatives with jim jordan in the speaker's position. that is just ridiculous idea, and it's somewhat encouraging that you have nearly two dozen republicans who recognize that. >> i want to ask both of you about this reporting that i saw today that there are even more who oppose him, sort of strategically humiliating him in the votes. i have to sneak in a quick break first, though, please stick around congresswoman crockett and charlie sykes, we'll be right back. ll be right back love you. have a good day, behave yourself. like she goes to work at three in the afternoon and sometimes gets off at midnight. she works a lot, a whole lot. we don't get to eat in the early morning. we just wait till we get to the school. so, yeah. right now here in america, millions of kids like victoria and andre live with hunger, and the need to help them has never been greater. when you join your friends, neighbors and me to support no kid hungry, you'll help hungry kids get the food they need. if we want to take care of our children, then we have to feed them. your gift of just $0.63 a day, only $19 a month at helpnokidhungry.org right now will help provide healthy meals and hope. we want our children to grow and thrive and to just not have to worry and face themselves with the struggles that we endure. nobody wants that for their children. like if these programs didn't exist me and aj, we wouldn't probably get lunch at all. please call or go online right now with your gift of just $19 a month. and when you use your credit card, you'll receive this limited edition t-shirt to show you're part of the team that's helping feed kids and change lives. if you're coming in hungry, there's no way you can listen to me teach, do this activity, work with this group. so starting their day with breakfast and ending their day with this big, beautiful snack is pretty incredible. whether kids are learning at school or at home, your support will ensure they get the healthy meals they need to thrive. because when you help feed kids, you feed their hopes, their dreams, and futures. kids need you now more than ever. so please call this number right now to join me in helping hungry kids or go online to helpnokidhungry.org and help feed hungry kids today. mr. jordan, i just want to ask you about that last vote and your confidence so far now after a second vote? >> got 200 of our colleagues that are for us in two ballots now, it's right where speaker mccarthy was in the process, so we're just going to keep talking to members. >> are you disappointed the resolution didn't come to the floor? >> i'm not in trouble until we get to 16 jordan, cnn is reporting, congresswoman, that there are republican holdouts who plan to stagger their no votes, which in a plan that seems like strategic humiliation for him so that the numbers continue to fall. what -- it's hard to ask because i'm not sure i even care about why they're can go what they're doing to jim jordan, but do you think they have a plan b or c or is it just the mchenry piece? >> i don't know that there is a plan. i mean, what we've seen from the republicans thus far is that they lack all strategy, right? because what is the strategy of coming to the floor and being humiliated? what is the strategy of not being able to count? i mean, when you think about mccarthy and the fact that he was booted from his speakership in the first place. he had 48 legislative hours before he had to bring that motion up. i don't understand how you can allow someone to file a motion to vacate and then you don't take the time to make sure that you have your votes as the speaker of the house. the one thing that you should be able to do or have your whip do for you is count, and so he should have known that he was about to be booted. he definitely shouldn't have been relying upon democrats to save him because, to be perfectly honest, we never elected him in the first place to be our speaker, not to mention he decided that he wanted to talk all kinds of noise about us after we made sure that this government stayed open. so i don't know that strategy is anything that i would actually attest to the republican party because even when you look at gaetz, the fact that gaetz decided that he wanted to vacate the speaker and had no idea of what to do next, he absolutely became the dog that caught the car, and honestly, that seemingly is the only plan that the republicans have right now is to continue to be the dog that finally catches the car and then they say, what do we do now. democrats, please help us, and we will give you nothing in return for your help except for oppression. >> you know, charlie, i wonder if we are applying a failure of imagination here. i wonder if the chaos and the lack of a speaker isn't the point? >> well, i don't know that there is a point for many of these people. you know, i agree, you know, matt gaetz is not a tactician. he is not a deep thinker. i don't think that he necessarily gamed this out except for what it would do for him. to the extent there is a strategy or a tactic of bringing these votes to the floor, they think that them, to attack them. and it's worked in the past. it worked for donald trump. it worked for kevin mccarthy, and jim jordan's thinking it will work for me. i will browbeat them. i will threaten them, and they will cave. it's not happening. reporting io probably accurate there are more members who are watching the totals, you know, looking to see how vulnerable he is, and then planning to make their move in the third or fourth ballot. whether that's to humiliate him or not, that's not clear. the further he get away from 217, the more momentum for patrick mchenry option. once you empower patrick mchenry, a lot of things happen. not just the humiliation of jim jordan, but the growing irrelevancy of the caucus in the house that has imagined it held the balance of power. if in fact jim jordan fails, there might be a shift here where people realize we don't have to care what matt gaetz and marjorie taylor greene think anymore. might be wished mae more attention to the people who want to legislate, want to govern. that wouldn't be the worst possible outcome. hope springs eternal. you sound optimistic and idealistic today, charlie. i will believe it when i see it. i want to turn to the bullying tactics, the role of sean hannity, the role of jim jordan's allies. as nasty and scorched earth as republicans are to democrats, they are equally vitt vitriolic to their own. the first time i was heard threatening messages being sent to a member's spouse, i couldn't think of anything more despicable. the fact you think you're going to get to somebody's husband through their wife and pull her in, but this is who these people are. . it's not a matter of jasmine saying this is who they are. this is not me saying they could govern. it's not me saying they're bullies. people are seeing this happen in real time. people will have to make a real decision by the time they hit the polls. do they want some sentence of normalcy or decency? will they continue to empower meme that have no intentions of doing what is right for any and all people, and so while these -- we're talking about threats being waged across the aisle? let me tell i, i'm a real and decent person. i'm going to say on the record that we should all denounce this, period. it shouldn't happen whether they're coming at us across the aisle and shouldn't be happening on the same side of the aisle. there's a reason we always want to talk to you. congresswoman jasmine crockett, thank you so much. charlie sykes, thank you for your vision about writing this. completely brilliant in "the bulwark." thank you both. we have much more news to come, include the twice impeached, four time indicted donald trump back in court today, and the latest from the middle east. don't go anywhere. we will be right back. middle east. don't go anywhere. we will be right back. ♪ if there's pain when you try to poo ♪ ♪ and going sometimes feels like you ♪ ♪ pushed through a pineapple or two ♪ ♪ colace is the brand you need ♪ ♪ to soften stools, we're all agreed ♪ ♪ #2 should be easy to do ♪ trust colace to soften stools with no stimulants for the chewy appelief. has everything for pets. hungry pets, itchy pets, scratchy pets, and most importantly, your pet. every day great prices and 35% off your first authorship order. right to your door. download the chewy app. >> tech: when you have auto glass damage, trust safelite. my customer really relies on his car's advanced safety system. right to your door. 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(announcer) change your life at golo.com. that's golo.com. 75 years ago, your founders declared this nation would be one, quote, based on freedom, justice and peace. based on freedom, justice and peace. the united states stands with you in defense of that freedom, pursuit of that justice, and support of that peace, today, tomorrow and always. we promise you. hi again, everyone. it's 5:00 in new york, an historic first today, but the first a sitting president visiting israel at a time of war. president biden reassuring support in the wake of jewish lives. the tensions and clashes in the middle east are ratcheting up. "new york times" describes it, que -- the timing could hard have been more precarious politically. after an all-night flight from washington, mr.iden landed in a country traumatized by terrorism. putting himself at the cenr of the volume tile conflict, as volley back and forth. mr. biden was determined to allow no daylight between himself and israel, even if he pressed privately for the resumption of humanitarian aid to gaza and stressed the important of minimizing civilian characters. the assertion that it was a separate armed terrorist group t. called the islamic jihad that misfired, didn't hit its target. meanwhile, palestinians continue to blame as a rule for the strike without any evidence to support the accusation, and anger in the arab world is nearly boiling over. here is richard engel earlier. >> reporter: this is young men are throwing stones at israeli troops. if you look behind me, over here you see an israeli jeep. for now they are holding that position. they have, however, been fire what looks like live ammunition. we saw a young man shot in the leg, carried off in an ambulance. in other places, the protests are much larger. in beirut, in front of the u.s. embassy, there are many protesters there, outraged, blaming israel and security forces are trying to clear them oil. there have been protests in lebanon, in different parts, protests in turkey. the concern is this outrage after an incident that caused so much death and destruction in gaza, could inflame tensions in the middle east at just the worst time, as israel is preparing possibly for a ground offensive inside the gaza strip, and the united states with president biden not far from here, in israel, in a very different-looking place than here, trying to calm things down, support israel, and prevent this ongoing conflict from escalating into a wider roar in the arab world. president joe biden talked at the back of the plane, and he spoke with egypt's president. watch. >> reporter: it took quite a long time to work this out, was he reluctant? >> not at all. he was completely cooperative. i've had a decent relationship with him. he's got his own problems on other issues. he has an entire boarder where a war border where a war is going on. he was, fair to say, very cooperative. i thought i would have to spend more time trying to convince him on the timing, but he stepped up. as did -- and they probably told you, i was very blunt with israel. because, look, israel has been badly victimized, but, you know, the truth is that if they have an opportunity to relieve suffering of people who have nowhere to go, they're going to be -- it's what they should do. if they don't, they'll be held accountable in ways that may be unfair, but my point to everyone is, look, you have an opportunity to alleviate the pain, you should do it. period. if you don't, you're going to lose credibility worldwide. we start the hour with the founder of alma, focusing on research and analysis of israel's security challenges on the northern border, and john hudson, who's been traveling with u.s. secretary of state antony blinken. john, let me start with you. you generously joined us in what my colleague described the fog of war yesterday, when it wasn't exactly clear what had happened. it's now been the assessment of the u.s. intelligence agencies, israel's assertion all along. we just got in in the last few minutes a statement from mark warner that says the senate intelligence committee reviewed intelligence on the hospital in gaza. based on this information, we feel confident the explosion was the result of a failed rocket launch by mill assistant terrorist and not the result of an israeli air strike. that in the record, jeremy bash immediate the point in the last hour, that a lie makes its way halfway around the world before the truth put its boots on, was his comment. how is not playing in the region? >> it's a great question, because we really saw the clear sign of how this is playing in the region by the fact that president biden's itinerary for his trip was severed in half. even though that president biden, the first thing he did when he arrived in israel, he said, look, it's my understanding that this was an explosion that was not the fault of the israelis. later, the national security council said that -- basically backed up the same point, that the u.s. still hasn't released the intelligence related to it, but the washington consensus and the israel consensus, they're now in line in terms of the government apparatus. but that is not the feeling in the arab world right now. obviously, president biden was canceled on by the arab leaders. he was supposed to meet with abbas, asissi s. also supposed to meet with the king of jordan. that whole part of the trip was canceled. the really different thing about this, is this has been the effort of u.s. officials from day one when planning the trip. it was always very important you have to u.s.-arab and u.s.-israeli allies getting on a better plain, so that they could address some of the real problems related to the israel-hamas war, getting aid in, getting american hostages out, that is trying to prevent this from turning into a two-front war with hezbollah coming in. they're not on the same page, despite president biden's coming out, saying it wasn't israel that did this. >> a more itinerary-related question, is the u.s. secretary of state still on an extended trip in the region? can you take us inside hi itinerary today and tomorrow? >> it has been an extraordinary, hopscotching the middle east, seven countries, shuttling between israel allies and arab allies, whether it's majority been, qatar, saudi arabia, the united arab emirates. he's been everywhere, but the senior flew his plane back with president biden on air force one. he's back in the united states, definitely going to be catching up on a lot of sleep. he had some extraordinary hours, including with the israelis, he had eight hours deep into the morning not some of the hardest issues. >> he has also underscored all of the things that we just heard the up talking about -- the need to ease the suffering of civilians in gaza. providing food and water, and the arrangement to have egypt bring in aid, which i know was important priority for both the secretary of state and the president. i just want your reflexes on the importance of israel of president biden's trip today. >> extremely important, that's why we feel a superpower is behind us, we're not alone in this compare. we understand this campaign is not between israel and hamas. it's between the western world and radical ideologies that are fighting us. iran is behind that. i think this visit of president biden made this clear in his speech last week. sarit., i try to get my wits about me, about how we digest information because the conditions are so dire. >> something someone said is no one appreciates at any moment, israel has rockets pointed ought it, not just from hamas terrorists, but also from palestinian islamic jihad, who fired the failed missile yet, as well as others. can you give us an assessment of where the threats are right now to israel? >> assessment, i'm talking to you from my bomb shelter at home. 12 kilometers from the israel/lebanese border. it's not been quiet. since the war started, this border is not quiet. we have every day between two to five attacks of hezbollah, islamic jihad, and hamas from lebanon, rocket attacks, infiltration, uav, you name it. it's not a massacre like on october 7th, but it's a small war here. it's not quiet. i just watched a video of hamas claiming responsibility to a shooting of antitank missiles against a town named matullah. and specifically targeted a car between houses. a civilian car. the threat is much greater, because the military abilities are ten times more. hamas is holding around 20,000 rockets was the allegation, iran has 200 those from mortgage tars to missiles, to rockets, long-range missiles, uavs, all of them together can cover the entire state of israel, various ranges, and all of us here understand that, on the one hand, it's impossible to live any more next to the monster. we don't sheep at night since everything happened october 7th. we adopt want, and we don't know whether we'll have to continue to sleep with shall nasty monster. on the other hand, if we fight back now, israel will have to face a two-front war, it would mean the firepower that we're going to need is going to be extensive, and it's going to be nothing like what we experienced in the south. >> john, since we've been on the air, we just received a statement from karine jean-pierre. tomorrow night president biden will address the nation to discuss our response, and russia's ongoing brutal war against ukraine. the speech will be delivered from the oval office at 8:00 p.m. eastern. u.s. secretary of state blinken also before saturday spending a lot of his time on the war in ukraine. you now have an administration completely laser focused on standing with these two vital allies. i wonder if you can, from traveling with the secretary of state, what you think we'll hear tomorrow night. >> i think the main message is something we'll be talking about for the rest of the week. it will come with a bit of a sticker shock, the potential $100 billion request to contingent no military assistance, a package that's lineally to include aid for both ukraine, israel, for the southern border and for taiwan. you asked about what the sort of environment was with secretary blinken's team as we traveled around the region. these are extremely weighty times. u.s. officials are considering having to intervene against in the middle east. i think any american president, when they hear that, realizes that there is an incredible amount of war fatigue in the united states. we are already sending almost every week new announcements of billions of dollars of aid to ukraine, and this administration has really done a lot to try to focus on the threat that they say that china poses. there's so many threats right now, it absolutely would be the preference of this administration to not have to get involved, and not use the two aircraft carrier groups in the mediterranean for a new conflict. but they really preparing for all scenarios. they're certainly not convinced that hezbollah isn't going to get involved in this conflict. and iran isn't going to get involved in a significant way. that's a huge issue. it's stick are shock to the american public. we'll see how that arrives in congress, where they haven't even figured out a speaker of the house. >> exactly. it pales in comparison. >> i just want to add, we had to evacuate here almost 60,000 people. 60,000 people cannot go back to their homes in the northern part of israel now, because they're threatened with the antitank missiles. so this problem must be addressed. people need to be capable of going back to their homes safe and sound. just one more sentence about what you previously discussed, humanitarian aid to gaza. i have one question -- what about humanitarian to the 200 hostages, among them 19 americans? what about that? >> i think the plight of the hostages is on the minds of everyone, but thank you, of course, for bringing those innocents back into the conversation. sarit, thank you very much. john, thank you. get some rest. officials are warning that this all could lead to violence at home. how law enforcement agencies are prepare. and donald trump says he will appeal a partial gag order. how that has the potential to turn into a landmakercase we'll be right back. don't go anywhere. we'll be right back. don't go anywhere. 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[ cheers ] yeah! woho! running up and down that field looks tough. it's a pitch. get way more into what you're into when you stream on the xfinity 10g network. the power goes out and we still have wifi to do our homework. and that's a good thing? great in my book! who are you? no power? no problem. introducing storm-ready wifi. now you can stay reliably connected through power outages with unlimited cellular data and up to 4 hours of battery back-up to keep you online. only from xfinity. home of the xfinity 10g network. u.s. security officials are deeply worried about violence here in the united states. law enforcement agencies are stepping up. intelligence reports obtained by nbc news suggests that groups linked to al qaeda and american neonazis may aim to exploit the ongoing war. it's part of what a dhs officials call our heightened threat enronment. that official says dhs is coordinating with the fbi and counter-terrorism center. to monitor potential attacks. the former director frank figliuzzi is here. i would be remiss if i didn't start with the fact that all of our conversations, that happened on january 6th. like our concerns about violence here, the most in this victim, a 6-year-old palestinian american boy has already been murdered in what authorities believe is a hate crime. what do we do now? >> hatred makes strange bedfellows. we're see pro-hamas and neath neonazis marrying up together because they have like enemies. so one day they'll yet at each other, threaten each other and next day they'll marry up against the yous. nothing happens in a vacuum, nicolle. this battleground of threat and risk has been prepared for years in america. it's been led by a president at the time, now by a former president giving license to hatred and racism. even now a former president who says hezbollah is, quote, unquote smart and seems to be lashing out at israel because they didn't support him. netanyahu came out and said biden won the election, and that's enough to anger hundreds of thousands of americans led by trump. so, this is not easily dug out of, the hole we're in right now. within the last week, fbi director chris wray has addressed about 5,000 jewish leaders on a secure network. they talked about the increased threat level security concerns. within the last week also, he addressed the international conference of chiefs of police, and told them uss sitly, the fbi is seeing increased threat. the fbi are seeing bomb threats, vandalism, physical assault all on the rise since the hamas attack on israel. this means this is all hands on deck but also community leadership that has to condemn the violence. please update if i missed some news, but there were pro-palestinian protests that got inside. what did we see? include from members of congress, this is an insurrection, where is the phish? why aren't they people getting arrested? this is an insurrection, equating a peaceful protest -- again, i didn't see law enforcement assaulted or destruction of property. nonetheless, it's been equated to the insurrection of january 6th. this is where we are, and it's going to take increased vigilance from all of us to get to this period, where we can't agree on anything, even including what happens to have been a peaceful protest. >> i don't have any reporting to conflict anything you said, and you usually have the freshest information. i want to ask you about something in the context of our doi political extremism threat. jeremy bash was very passionate in the last hour how headlines and assumptions, allegations and charges by hamas are to blame, or are part of the response to protests all around the middle east, in ramallah, the west bank, beirut, other places. today wasn't the case, right? it wasn't the case that the tragic loss of life at the hospital in gaza was related to anything that israel did. it was from a group call islamic jihad, a failed strike. the stakes seem in some ways even more fraught in this context, and it makes me wish we had gone farther to solve some of our own disinformation problems. what do we do? what is the availability of the truth to knock down disinformation? >> so, there's no question that our vote politically counts more than ever. you have to vote this stuff out that is voting the people behind this out of office or ensuring they adopt get back in. but we also have to talk about the role of social media. the disinformation is spiking all over social media, seemingly unregulated, or platforms by humans who simply don't care. the recent terror attack in belgium against visiting swedes there, russia loved that. russia pushed that on their social media platforms, telegram in particular. man, they love anything that seems to divide us. the same thing is going on on youtube -- not to mention -- if you're overnight. we had a president of the united states famously says that he questioned, or didn't buy the story coming from his own u.s. intelligence. should we be surprised when biden comes out of a meeting with benjamin netanyahu and says, yeah, i saw the intel. i see wee they're saying they did it. it's clear it didn't come from them, and everyone is going, nope, nope, don't buy the intelligence. we can't believe anything. that's on us. as a society for buying this stuff for sale on social media. until we get our hands around controlling and regulating, we're in this for the long haul. thank you so much. coming up, the efforts to limit trump's rhetoric in the election interference case could ultimately make its way to the supreme court. we'll have that story, next. y te supreme court. we'll have that story, next. to a child, this is what conflict looks like. children in ukraine are caught in the crossfire of war, forced to flee their homes. a steady stream of refugees has been coming across all day. it's bitterly cold. lacking clean water and sanitation. exposed to injury, hunger. exhausted and shell shocked from what they've been through. every dollar you 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special save the children tote bag to show you won't forget the children who are living their lives in conflict. every war is a war against children. please give now. we're entering a brand-new chapter in a really important story we've been covering here for a long time. it's become a consequentially legal battle now off the twice-impeached dangerous rhetoric from the former president. he's filed a formal notice he will appeal that narrowly issued gag order it bars statement. the judge chutkan nodes -- undisputed testimony cited bytet when defendant has publicly attacked individuals, including on matters related to this case, those individuals are consequently threatened and harassed. there's a strong possibility this appeal could end upe the supreme court, putting the country in uncharted tirr tore against. as politico put it, quote -- how the appeal will fares far from clear. there's no precedent involving a defendant simultaneously running for president. we have carol lenig, and andrew wiseman is back with us. carol, it feels lick 7,000 years since this story firth burt into public view, but it was an extraordinary filing from jack smith. in that filing, jack smith an oy tweets the call and response, and the violent threats donald trump made against several, but what the special counsel's office tried to establishment before the judge's ruling, is what we all know to be true. when someone attacks someone, threats almost always ensue. >> absolutely. nicolle, this goes back as far as 2016 and 2015 when donald trump was running for president. you'll remember those in a moment in a stadium in louisville, kentucky, where he called upon the supporters to get him out of here, i'll pay your legal bills if you get into any trouble. we watched a black protester of donald trump questioning his islamophobic response. we watched that black student business forcibly pushed and shoved and thrown out of the stadium by trump supporters. it was sort of not just a call in response that took a few minutes. it took a few seconds. it happened against while he was president. it happened again while he was now a candidate for reelection facing legal challenges on multiple front. nicolle, i don't think it's unimportant to mention that there have been attempts on fbi agents' lives as a result of donald trump's time in office when he repeatedly tried to say that the fbi was coming for him, and politically motivated in investigating evidence that his campaign had had contact with russian assets or operatives, and there was some sort of political fix in, to look at his campaign and try to target him, when really what fbi agents were looking at was the possibility that the russian government was trying to pierce that campaign and use it to defeat hillary clinton and support a candidate who was definitely much more pro-russia than hillary clinton. >> andrew, you know, p.s. russia did. russia was. the report does establish that russia did get involved in the 2016 election. i want to turn to something, because i think i struggle so much with the fraught consequences, maybe hasn't been illustrated adequately, but since he left office, trump's association with violence has increased. i mean, he's had nick fuentes to mar-a-lago for dinner. his opening campaign event was in waco, i'm sure not by accident. his position is he will pardon the insurrectionists. they've been convicted by juries of their peers of seditious conspiracy. he ties to violent acts now match his adoration of violent rhetoric. >> absolutely. you can't add to the list that carol so aptly cited, the events on january 6th. to your point, nicolle, which is even if you were to give the former president of benefit of the doubt that's not what he intended on that day, and i say very much to the benefit of the doubt that there's lots of evidence that's exactly what he intended, he clearly has embraced it since then. he did not have the reaction that any normal person would have, that this is absolutely a real strike against democracy. i would point out, though, for the legal issue for the court of appeals that will be evaluating what judge chutkan did, it's not so much he is running for office, it is that he is a defendant in a criminal case. there is long-standing court precedent, including supreme court precedent that a trial judge is entitled to protect the administration of justice and that does not trump the first amendment. think of this as a thought experiment. even if you thought that the defendant did not intend his words to cause violence, but he knew that, in fact, people would take them that way, the judge is entitled to say there are going to be limits on what you can say, because we know that violence can ensue. we have seen it ensue, so i think here the report before the court of appeals will be very strong. the fact that there is also the state record of former president trump making statements about a law clerk will really not sit well with the judges in the court of appeals. >> let me show both of you what new york attorney general letitia james said outside of the courthouse in the last hour. obviously her civil fraud case is on trial. >> he's called me venomous, disgraceful, radical, and a racist, and this is only week 3. the reality is that none of his best behavior which can best be described as will change what's happening in the courtroom. we are here to enforce the law. nothing will change that. no attacks, no words, i will not give in, i will not give up. i will only serve justice and enforce the law. >> it's extraordinary. again, carol, the attacks against attorney general letitia james are only rivals, i think by the attacks against d.a. fani willis. they do include the words she used, venomous, disgraceful, pro-obama, racist, the smears on these black women trying to hold him accountable. if we did anything he is charged with doing, they are next level. >> yeah. interesting is a euphemism for so often it's black women that are targeted by donald trump as almost like a prop for his claims that he's being targeted. interesting that the election officials who testified in the january -- in the house january 6th investigation were, you know, in tears describing how their lives had been ruined. their sense of fear in their own homes was so high they were afraid to come out as a result of his targeting them personally in georgia for doing things and corrupting the election process, which obviously was proven they see had no such role in that. i think it's worth underscoring, too, with andrew's smart point, the extensive precedent for judges' roles in protecting court proceedings. there's one world where trump is allowed to say a lot of things. his first amendment rights are pretty brought, in his effort to seek a return to the white house and to the oval office, but in a courtroom, if anything, judge chutkan has been pretty generous in her gag order, in terms of allowing the former president to continue to claim that this election is -- excuse me -- this prosecution is politically molt investigated, to continue to bash the biden administration as calling the shots in this field. that's a lot of room for him to say what he wants to say in a federal court case in which he is the defendant. his picking on a court clerk in the new york case? again, a female. that's not going to sit well, but it's beyond the pale. most judges i have seen literally threaten, as i think i've said before on your program, to duct taped the defendant. >> i just have a visual, that i'll never be able to unsee. there is more news on this front. after the break, a trump codefendant in the fulton county election case is set to go to trial in a few days. how this defense may be undermined by his own e-mails. we'll share brapd-new reporting, next. share brapd-new reporting, next one dose works fast to eliminate migraine pain treat it anytime, anywhere. without worrying where you are or if it's too late. do not take with strong cyp3a4 inhibitors. allergic reactions to ubrelvy can happen. most common side effects were nausea and sleepiness. migraine pain relief starts with u. ask about ubrelvy. learn how abbvie could help you save. ♪ i wanna hold you forever ♪ hey little bear bear. ♪ ♪ ♪ i'm gonna love you forever ♪ ♪ ♪ c'mon, bear. ♪ ♪ ♪ you don't...you' have to worry... ♪ ♪ be by your side... i'll be there... ♪ ♪ with my arms wrapped around... ♪ get the new iphone 15 pro with titanium from boost infinite ♪ be by your side... i'll be there... ♪ and transcend to a wireless utopia. the new titanium iphone 15 pro. on us, with no trade in needed. infinitely better. there's new reporting today on e-mails from trump campaign lawyer and codefendant in the georgia racketeering/rico election interference case against ken chesebro, that allies knew the allegations and charges that the 2020 election had been stolen or that there was any fraud, were unlikely to succeed. i think it was a 1% in court. they continued to push them anyway, because these e-mails were felt it would bolster their political case to overturn the elect on, wait for it, january 6th. "new york times" reports that -- i would say only 1%, end quote. he wrote the filing has, quote, possible political value. said the legal filings could produce a, quote, a payoff to booth the argument. jury selection in his case is scheduled to begin friday. we're back with carol and andrew. andrew, what is amazing is that we've got on this, right, since january 6th. all of the revelations that everybody news it was bill barr's favorite word today, i won't say it today, b.s., nobody thought it was fraud. >> absolutely. the significant of this is, yes, it is true, there there's ample evidence over and over again, but kenneth chesebro will say, because i'm a lawyer, i was writing legal briefs and just acting as a lawyer. in other words, i wasn't doing anything wrong. it was other people's actions decide whether to pursue this legal strategy or not. these e-mails really capture that, because they're not acting as a lawyer. he's talking a political strategy, now legal, and what i find so devastating, in addition to say there's only a 1% chance, he said we should bring this because it's important for justices on the supreme court to be worried about chaos on january 6th, that that is the strategy. in other words, bringing they cases to foment that chaos is the political strategy. that's not what a lawyer does. rovers, kenneth chesebro was reported there i at the capitol with, wait for it, alex smith. so there's evidence to to -- >> he knew the coup blueprint was both unconstitutional and illegal. the brazenness that comes out when you sue what was in e-mails is staggering. >> totally, nicolle. there's an interesting parallel. i'm glad you brought up eastman. he also eventually confesses to a vippial lawyer, george jacobs -- forgive me, i'm saying the name wrong -- he says i don't have confident at all that we'll win this one. it's probably not legal by going to win. the vice presidential lawyer k? do you see what you have done here? same with cheseboro. we have a 1% chance of winning. but it's going to be useful to us. i'll underscore something andrew said and elaborate on it. this idea that cheseboro mentions, that the lawyers and courts will look like they haven't acted on this, and that will be useful to us. whether or not we have a chance in the world, it will be politically useful to us to pve to court as not having acted in a timely way. how sad for a lawyer to say, we can make the court and system of justice look flawed and it will work for us on january 6th. >> it's just amazing tempt to overturn trump's defeat. so good to see you. andrew weissman, so good to see you. quick break for us. we'll be right back. k for us we'll be right back. of our constitution and the hope that liberty and justice is for all people. but here's the truth. attacks on our constitutional rights, yours and mine are greater than they've ever been. the right for all to vote. reproductive rights. the rights of immigrant families. the right to equal justice for black, brown and lgbtq+ folks. the time to act to protect our rights is now. that's why i'm hoping you'll join me today in supporting the american civil liberties union. it's easy to make a difference. just call or go online now and become an aclu guardian of liberty. all it takes is just $19 a month. only $0.63 a day. your monthly support will make you part of the movement to protect the rights of all people, including the fundamental right to vote. states are passing laws that would suppress the right to vote. we are going backwards. but the aclu can't do this important work without the support of people like you. you can help ensure liberty and justice for all and make sure that every vote is counted. so please call the aclu now or go to my aclu.org and join us. when you use your credit card, you'll receive this special we the people t-shirt and much more. to show you're a part of the movement to protect the rights guaranteed to all of us by the us constitution. we protect everyone's rights, the freedom of religion, the freedom of expression, racial justice, lgbtq rights, the rights of the disabled. we are here for everyone. it is more important than ever to take a stand. so please join us today. because we the people means all the people, including you. so call now or go online to my aclu.org to become a guardian of liberty. hi, my name is damion clark. if you have both medicare and medicaid, i have some really encouraging news that you'll definitely want to hear. depending on the plans available in your area, you may be eligible to get extra benefits with a humana medicare advantage dual-eligible special needs plan. all of these plans include a healthy options allowance, a monthly allowance to help pay for eligible groceries, utilities, rent, and over-the-counter items. the healthy options allowance is loaded onto a prepaid card each month. and whatever you don't spend, carries over from each month. other benefits on these plans include free rides to and from your medical appointments. and our large networks of doctors, hospitals and pharmacies. so, call the number on your screen now and ask about a humana medicare advantage dual-eligible special needs plan. humana. a more human way to healthcare. ♪everything i do that's for my health is an accomplishment.♪ ♪concerns of getting screened faded away♪ ♪to my astonishment.♪ ♪my doc gave me a script i got it done without a delay.♪ ♪i screened with cologuard and did it my way.♪ cologuard is a one-of-a-kind way to screen for colon cancer that's effective and non-invasive. it's for people 45 plus at average risk, not high risk. false positive and negative results may occur. ask your provider for cologuard. ♪i did it my way!♪ live report on the happenings on earth two. let's bring in my friend and colleague allie victually. what's the latest? >> the latest is we thought there was going to be a vote tomorrow at noon, and that's still a possibilitying but as the speaker pro tem was leving the capital tonight, he wasn't so sure. he said it's not entirely clear we're going to see a vote on speaker at that point tomorrow. more questions now. >> what's -- kevin mccarthy at least in his 15 votes usually went up. jim jordan is going down. is the plan the same to keep going? >> reporter: seems like it at this point, but you're watching jordan take a different approach than mccarthy was, especially because we watched mccarthy doing continuous rounds of balloting, keeping the pressure on the floor. we saw a vote yesterday, which he lost, a vote today, which he also lost, and went back to the back door dealings with the no votes to see if there's progress to be made. what's difficult about that is you're not talking about blocks of people. it's not like you earned six people by giving away this, ten people by giving away that. these are individual people with individual concerns. it makes the corralling difficult. that's why we haven't seen jordan able to make inroads. they kind of just don't like him. it's kind of like what we saw with mccarthy only different because it's jordan now. >> my favorite rom com parallels, "he's just not that into you". another break for us. we'll be right back. another break for us we'll be right back. just between us, you know what's better than mopping? 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