Transcripts For MSNBCW Chris 20240703

Sporting the kick off the Savings Monopoly Tag for unlimited bonus game tickets at lucky killed in the blast. Many of the victims children. Demonstrations coinciding with the president s trip to israel where he said he is confident based on u. S. Intelligence that an israeli air strike was not to blame, but in the wake of the bombing a planned summit between biden and palestinian and egyptian leaders in jordan was called off. We want to begin with nbcs matt bradley who was in lebanon where protesters flooded the streets outside the u. S. Embassy in beirut. Give us the latest. Reporter hey, chris, im sorry, we just had a Power Failure here. This is what happens in lebanon. Theyre going through a fouryear economic crisis, and the power goes out regularly. This is part of the crisis thats going on in this country, and part of the reason why so many people here dont want to be dragged into another war with israel. You mentioned this Embassy Protest i was at today. We saw just the tail end of it, and i watched and now the lights are coming back on. I watched as, you know, we could still smell the tear gas in the air. It looks like the police had just disbursed the protesters. There was a lot of damage. We were still about a kilometer away from the embassy because the embassy is so blockaded, so protected that the protesters never even really got close to the actual building itself, but the military was there, the police were there, they were restoring the barricades, it looked like the protesters had set fire to one of the nearby commercial buildings, and you could still smell the tear gas in the air, and there was a lot of debris and razor wire around. It was clearly a terribly violent scene. Why the u. S. Embassy, there is no Israeli Embassy in beirut, lebanon has no diplomatic relationship with israel. We were at a hezbollah rally just before that where the speakers, the official speakers and the people we spoke to mentioned the United States and israel in the same breath. Joe biden and israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu took the same level of condemnation from just about everybody that we spoke with. For those people, the people who were protesting, mostly hezbollah supporters, theres no daylight between the United States and israel as far as theyre concerned. They see them as the same actor, complicit in what they consider to be the same crimes, and they used the word genocide over and over again against the palestinian people. These protests, they were called out of because of that explosion at the hospital, and i asked people, you know, do you think this was the israelis are blaming this on palestinian militant groups, absolutely not. One woman interrupted me and said you know this wasnt just explosion. You know that israel was the one who attacked this hospital. But then i asked another man, you know, what if there was just indisputable evidence that it was, in fact, an errant bomb by a palestinian militant group, and he said, look, you know, we would still be out here protesting. Were still out here protesting the israeli behavior against the palestinians, this is not about what happened last night. This is about generations of cruelty against the palestinians by the israelis, chris. Matt bradley, thank you for that. I also want to bring in nbcs raf sanchez from israel, what is the latest in gaza today, raf . Reporter well, chris, it remains just a devastating, humanitarian situation inside gaza, putting aside the carnage outside this hospital whether it was a palestinian rocket as israel and the u. S. Are saying or if it was an israeli air strike as the palestinians insist. For the 2 million palestinians inside of gaza, this is a really really dire situation. There are about 600 american citizens still trapped. I want you to take a listen from a video diary that one of them has been keeping. Take a listen. Daily challenges and trying to keep the kids calm, also so we dont lose our sanity as parents, so, yeah. Thats about it. And of course the tragic massacre that was committed last night when the air force bombed the hospital and killed hundreds. Thats just beyond barbaric. I mean, and the Defense Minister Of Israel calls us human animals, i mean, really. Reporter chris, you heard his account there, trying to keep his children safe, trying to keep them calm. I just spoke to a young mother. She has a 2yearold baby, and she says she really is noticing the changes in her little daughter that her daughter is so frightened, her daughter is so overstimulated by the explosions. She doesnt understand whats going on, but she knows that something is going wrong. Theyre the lucky ones. Theyre outside gaza city. They had water for about an hour earlier today, but it is a really really desperate situation. Now, President Biden when he met with the israeli war cabinet earlier secured an agreement from the israelis that humanitarian aid would be allowed through the Rafah Crossing, the egyptian gaza border and into the southern part of gaza, the israelis have agreed to a humanitarian zone as theyre calling it in southern gaza. But there is no guarantee, just because the americans and israelis have agreed on something that it will come to pass, you need the egyptian con sent. You need hamas consent. This is just a fiendishly confident jigsaw puzzle, and we should reiterate that the u. N. Has been very clear, that when israel orders a Million People out of northern gaza, tells them to go to southern gaza, has no way through the egyptian border, the u. N. Is saying that it is one, inevitable that it will lead to a humanitarian disaster, and two, that it is a possible war crime. Thank you so much for your reporting. We appreciate it. Nbcs Stephanie Gosk is here to break down what we know so far about that hospital explosion. The Israeli Military has put out evidence. They say it proves the Islamic Jihad faction is responsible. That is being denied. Talk about what we actually know, stephanie what we know is what each side is telling us, and we know the specifics. Its also important to point out that we cant actually get there, that american journalists are not on the ground in gaza. Some of these could be verified by eyes on the ground. Lets run through the what the idf, the Israeli Military is saying, and they had a Press Conference today, all in english to lay this out, including visuals. Weve got some of them here right now. Theres not a direct hit of the hospital, but rather this parking lot that you see here, and that one of the things they particularly pointed out is there would be, if it had been an israeli missile, they say, peripheral damage to the buildings, and you dont actually see that here in this particular image. They then said if it wasnt an israeli missile, you would have a significant crater, a crater anywhere from 20 feet to 60 feet and they provided an image of what a crater like that might look like. They had some previous impacts that they used to show. They also went on to say that hamas itself knew that it was a rocket from Islamic Jihad that was fired and then missed its target and launched a Global Media Campaign to stir up anger on purpose, and we saw how effective that has been with the protests around the arab world. What does hamas say . Hamas says, look at the damage, and again, we cant look at the damage. The damage is significant, that it leveled the hospital, that there are an enormous number of casualties that we also cant verify, and that the angle they say of where the missile hit would only be an israeli missile. So they are pushing back on this whole notion. They say, we dont have the kind of weapons that would have that number of casualties. Again, those Casualty Numbers are really in dispute here. They point out the idf in the past has had to walk back assertions. You may remember there was a Journalist Shot and killed. The idea said that originally that was Palestinian Militants responsible for her death. They had to walk that back, actually, it was Israeli Soldiers in that incident. Chris. Stephanie gosk, thank you for bringing what clarity we can to this situation. That is what is known publicly, but what are intelligence communities across the world doing right now to get to the bottom of this. I want to bring in former cia director and msnbc Senior National security and intelligence analyst, john brennan. Its really great to have you here. So the president seemed very confident in his public statements after seeing data provided by the defense department, he said israeli is not behind this explosion. What kind of data would he be given that he could say, i guess, from some peoples perspectives pretty quickly, this wasnt israel . Well, chris, i think steph did a very good job in terms of explaining what we can see from above at the hospital. And im sure President Biden was given a very indepth explanation by the Israeli Military of what they can see, and its a very believable explanation. But the u. S. Intelligence Community Military also has its own assets, overhead satellites, also drones, other types of things, signals intelligence, and im sure that President Biden would have wanted to have some strong confidence that that explanation, that it was an errant rocket launched by the palestinian Islamic Jihad, he would have wanted to have that assessment pretty strong before going out publicly and saying it. Still, its preliminary, theres no access to the site itself. The large size of the explosion does raise questions. It could have been some secondary explosions. A fuel depot that might have been there at the hospital, maybe some explosions, munitions that were nearby that caused that fire ball, and that fire that took the lives of so many, but, again, what the israelis have said is very believable, especially when we dont see the crater associated with a missile that comes off an aircraft. Director brennan, we have been watching the protests, the violence, and we have heard from our reporters there that even when they ask if it could be proved somehow to their satisfaction, that this was not israel, would they back down, and they say this is about something larger, this is about the treatment of palestinians across many many years. Given the height of emotions and given the anger, the understandable anger that exists, is it even possible to overstate the regional risks for further escalation . I dont think you can overstate it, and the tensions are higher now than they have been in decades. Even if theres going to be some convincing evidence, put out publicly, this was a rocket from the Islamic Jihad, most palestinians and many arabs are not going to believe it. Theyre convinced that this was something that the israelis intentionally targeted, a hospital, as a way to pill kiln more and more palestinians. Which is why President Biden went out there, i think he went out there for three principle reasons, one is to show solidarity with israel, the second, i think he really has been moved by the loss of innocent life, the thousands of innocent israelis and palestinians and others who have been killed so far, and hes trying to make sure that he does whatever possible to minimize any additional casualties and, then thirdly to prevent a broadening of the conflict that could engulf the entire region and really be a problem for the entire world. So it was a risky, high profile trip, and obviously he didnt know that this Hospital Strike was going to occur while he was just getting on board the aircraft, but, again, President Biden feels very strongly about the need to signal the administrations support to israel, but also prevent the loss of life he believes is quite precious. There are american lives at risk. I want to get your take on reportin b keir simmons. Securing the release of hostages is on hold. Diplomat told Nbc News The Hospital Blast has made it impossible for hamas to do anything now, even if theyre willing. I wonder if thats how you see it, and how does this complicate potentially the release of those hostages, americans and otherwise . I think raf sanchez called it fiendishly complicated and i think that is an understatement because it is so complex. There are so many actors involved here, tensions are so high the fact that you have the 200 or so hostages being held by hamas, you know, a good sign so far is that there wasnt any footage of execution of hostages that hamas had pledged to carry out. So i do think that there are a number of actors that are engaging in the discussions, the egyptians, the qataris, the red cross to see if they can safely recover those hostages, at the same time, Prevent The Gaza Environment from totally going up in flames. It has been so punishing on the palestinian people, this is a humanitarian crisis that continues to worsen. John brennan, thank you so much, its a pleasure to have you on the program. Thank you. Here at home, major fireworks on capitol hill today over the ongoing House Speaker fight. So where does this all go next . Were back in 60 seconds. Right now, House Republicans and House Democrats are having Party Meetings Behind Closed Doors after that second speaker vote ended without a speaker. Close trump ally, ohio congressman jim jordan fail to go claim the gavel again, and in fact, he actually lost some of the support he had in the first round. Nevertheless, he said just a few minutes ago he plans to keep fighting. Mr. Jordan, i just want to ask you about that last vote and your confidence so far now at your second vote. Two ballots now, thats where Speaker Mccarthy was in the process, so were just going to keep talking to members. Joining us now, nbcs ali vitali on capitol hill. Former republican congressman carlos, and mike ricci, former Communications Director for paul ryan. Good to have all of you here. So discussions happening among democrats and republicans, what are they trying to figure out . Reporter what comes next is the main question for members of both parties. Im standing now outside of the democratic meeting, happening just over the course of the last few minutes, Behind Closed Doors. Were waiting to see Leadership Go into the room. I think the question that leadership is going to both ask their members and also their members will ask of them is what document us to do, and whats the path forward for the potential of empowering the speaker pro tem in Patrick Mchenry. One source telling me as i was standing outside the room that the goal of the meeting is a Temperature Taking so that democrats can understand how many of their members would be open to voting for that kind of an empowerment resolution, and what the political ramifications of that might be. I will say over the course of the last two and a half weeks, weve seen the top democrats, Hakeem Jeffries be pretty mum on any potential idea of something sorkinesque of a government. What was striking is the way that jeffries really seemed to be more open last night in talking with us reporters, saying that he was open to compromise. He was open to something bipartisan. The word that he used was genuine. And that could come in the form of mchenry. I think it was noticeable that jeffries and others have drawn a very clear red line around it not being jim jordan. They have used words like extreme and insurrectionist to describe him. Of course that denoting his past ties as found by the January 6th Committee and others for the things that he was allegedly doing in the aftermath of trumps loss of the 2020 election. And jordans efforts, alongside trump allies to subvert those results, so for democrats, he was never going to be a palatable option. But now that weve seen him fail on the second balloting round, republicans trying to figure out whats happening next, democrats are huddling to get a better sense of where their caucus is at and what their next move might be trying to take advantage almost of this moment of disarray, and also just get the house back to working. Yeah, so, mike, there is urgency, real urgency to that. The question is how. Let me start with the idea that jordan says he wants to keep fighting, but this isnt just a handful of opponents. He lost 22 republicans, meaning he would have to flip back 18. Is there anything that suggests to you, Kevin Mccarthys experience that he could actually pull it off . Well, chris, there arent the kinds of blocks that you saw back in january. Remember there were sort of ring leaders in january, chip roy, Byron Donalds and more, and each member would unlock, because there are bonds, and members broken into factions, there are so many free agents, its hard to know where to start. The goal was to get down to double digits and create momentum. To go backwards, below 200, sends a terrible signal. You have to express confidence and tell members youre going to keep going for it until you dont. Thats probably what hes going to do. Meantime, a lot of conversations, about the possibility that there could be an alternative here, and earlier today, former speaker Kevin Mccarthy gave his thoughts about mchenrys current role. Listen. I always thought from the perspective when i was making the call, speaker pro tem, i thought that was always the basis that they could keep the continuity of government working, that they would have the powers. Democrats tried to say they didnt have any powers. Think about what the democrats have done. All of this chaos, is created by all of the democrats, in the crazy eight led by gaetz. Congressman, whats your understanding of mchenrys current powers, if they voted temporary speaker, does it raise more questions about the extent of what he can do, would he be second in line to the presidency, would he take part in gang of 8 meetings . Theres lots of questions about the regular role of speaker and maybe this limited role that theyre talking about. How do you see it . Well, chris, if the house actually moves to empower mchenry, if there is a vote, it is very likely that he will be full legitimized as speaker and have all of the powers and authorities that the Speaker Of The House would have. And i can tell you in the House Republican conference, theres a very strong current in favorite of empowering mchenry. A lot of it is under the surface, chris, because some of these members dont want to appear to be loyal to the speaker designee, the Republican Base obviously is enthusiastic about someone like jim jordan, especially, in some districts. So a lot of these members are for the time being still supporting jordan, while hoping that this move to empower Patrick Mchenry, someone who is respected across the conference and even across the aisle continues gaining momentum. I think this is something we could see as early as this evening, Patrick Mchenry formally take over as Speaker Of The House. Thank you. Ali, if you get anything more out of those meetings or hints at what might happen next, please come back to us. We will welcome you with open arms. Thank you so much. Meantime, israeli families are facing an agonizing wait to learn if their relatives were abducted or killed by hamas. Ill be speaking with someone whos dealing with the agony of trying to bring their Family Member home safely. Thats next. Thats next. man mm, hey, honey. Looks like my todo list grew. Paint the bathroom, give baxter a bath, get life insurance, hm. I have a few minutes. I can do that now. Oh, that fast . Remember that Colonial Penn ad . I called and i got information. They sent the simple form i need to apply. All i do is fill it out and send it back. Well, that sounds too easy man give a little information, check a few boxes, sign my name, done. They dont ask about your health . man no health questions. Physical exam . Dont need one. Its Colonial Penn guaranteed acceptance whole life insurance. 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We didnt get any information, other than the fact that they were officially known as kidnapped, which is i would say the less awful message that we got. But other than that, it was on friday. Other than that, we dont know anything. We dont have any new details. Who was keeping in touch with you . Are you able to at least have an open line of communication so that if there is information you feel confident youll get it . Yeah, the army is in constant communication with us. Theyre actually coming to visit my parents every couple of days. The families that have kidnapped or missing people is also in contact with us. Im confident that if and when we have new information, well be aware of it. I dont know if there are updates on a daily on a daily basis to anyone, but i feel like once there is the information well know something. I feel its very important for us to continue to let people know whats at stake here. So please tell us about your Family Members. So i have a niece is shalon, she is 34. She has two twin daughters, and her husband david and my oldest sister danielle, which went there to do shabbat, she lives far from there, but she went there to do shabbat along with her daughter, her 5 1 2yearold daughter amelia. You know, we are a very peaceful family, i would say. We never think about, you know, we want to hurt someone. We never thought this might happen, and my Little Sister lived there for a long time. She loves the kibbutz, its a very peaceful area, and from time to time, yeah, there are missiles. From time to time there are terrorists, but she said, yeah, we are getting used to it. But overall its okay. I dont think anyone thought that that would be, you know, something we need to experience. No one should have to experience it. We are watching the video of those little girls, and they are so beautiful. It is a beautiful family. If you could say one thing before i let you go, to Prime Minister netanyahu right now, what would it be . I would say get everyone together. Lets forget all the poison that we had before. And do everything that you can in order to bring them back. Thats all i ask. I dont care about anything else. I dont think anyone else in the families cares about anything else. Just make order wherever you are and just bring everyone here and bring them back safe. Under circumstances none of us can imagine, the bravery that you are showing and the love for your family is extraordinary and inspirational, and our thoughts are with you and your family. Thank you, moran aloeny, we appreciate it. Thank you very much. Crowds of people and aid for gaza stranded at the rafah Border Crossing. Is this gazans last hope to escape war. Youre watching Chris Jansing reports only on msnbc. Ansing reports only on msnbc developed with vets. Made from real meat and veggies. Portioned for your dog. 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The State Department cant help them because the Rafah Crossing is still closed. Tony blinken, secretary of state of course was in egypt on saturday. He was assured it was going to be opened by sunday morning. It wasnt. They had even announced on saturday it was going to be announced, and it wasnt. Sunday morning, it still wasnt open. It still isnt open. That was going to be the focus of what the president tried to do, if he had that summit in jordan today with the president of egypt, the palestinian leader, mahmoud abbas, and that was cancelled after the tragic bombing of the hospital in gaza. So what happened, the Terror Attack in Gaza Last Night killed so many people, wounded more, so many of them were children. That tragedy has inflamed the arab world. The leaders immediately cancelled coming and seeing President Biden. He came anyway, he was in the motorcade, taking off, getting ready to board the plane to israel. That altered his mission which was supposed to be a careful balancing act between israel and the arab world. And working on humanitarian aid, working on getting americans out. Trying to get the american hostages out which is now totally on hold, if there ever were a glimmer of hope on that, and trying to get israel to limit civilian casualties going further as well as, of course, declaring after you saw evidence and was briefed by his own intelligence and defense department, the president said that the u. S. Now believes israels contention that it was not responsible for that attack. Its far too late to persuade the arab world and critics of israeli elsewhere. Andrea mitchell, thank you for that. Nbcs Lindsay Riser is here following whats happening at the border. Weve got hundreds of thousands of people trying to get from the northern part of gaza to the southern part, including americans and their families. A lot of them are amassing here that is still closed up until this point. Palestinian americans tell nbc news that even on a good day, when theres times of stability, this is still a chaotic crossing with long wait times. This is what the gate looks like on the palestinian side. So that has yet to open up to allow refugees to flow from gaza and foreign nationals into egypt, and then we have the humanitarian aid convoy. Some of these trucks, chris, have gone back to the closest city about 30 miles away because theres no sign of this crossing opening. We have these aid trucks who are trying to get in with food, medicine, water. Israel today saying they will allow aid to go from egypt into gaza. They didnt mention any about fuel, and then we have President Biden saying that the u. S. Is committing 100 million of aid. Why hasnt this opened yet . We had john kirby on morning joe yesterday. He mentioned a few things. First of all, the egyptian side, and im going to go ahead and draw the border for you. You can see how densely populated the gaza side is, and how sparse the egyptian side is. Theyre worried about millions of refugees flooding in. Hamas has created road blocks, preventing people from traveling south on the main road here. And then we have israeli retaliatory air strikes against hamas, and so im going to once again draw the border here at the Rafah Crossing, this is the gaza side, and the egyptian side, and were going to take a closer look, we can see from satellite imagery, craters that are actually blocking one of the main roads on the gaza side. So when and if this crossing is actually able to open, again, this is partnal f deal. Very complicated if hamas, even will allow this to open. Its unclear how trucks will get in with the damage on the main road. Chris. Lindsey reiser, thank you for that. Tunnels, booby traps and guerrilla warfare, thats coming up next. E, thats coming up next. About botox®. 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Call unitedhealthcare today about the only Medicare Advantage plans with the aarp name and get more of what matters to you. music ends upbeat music with the push of a button, constant contacts ai tools help you know what to say, even when you dont. Hi constant contact. Helping the small stand tall. The first time you made a sale online with godaddy was also the first time you heard of a town named dinosaur, colorado. We just got an order from dinosaur, colorado. Start an easy to build, powerful website for free with a partner that always puts you first. Start for free at godaddy. Com we have breaking news from capitol hill. Take a look at these pictures. A group of protesters staging a Demonstration Calling for a cease fire in gaza. They are inside the Cannon House Office building. I want to go to nbcs julie tsirkin. What more can you tell us . Reporter yeah, hey, chris you see some of them behind me right now. There are a thousand of them. And people that actually get into the office where im standing right now. Voices for peace and [ Loud Crowd Noise ] saying this organization is antiscientist, right to exist, according to nadler, this organization has supported in the past whats known as bds, trying to boycott israeli businesses, and some of that has been looked at negatively by democrats and republicans who do support israel here. Now, behind me youre hearing a lot of noise. They are asking for a cease fire. These are American Jews and allies who are of course not jewish as well. They are demanding a cease fire on both sides. I will tell you also, chris, theres a lot of people behind me now. Theyre all over this rotunda. They are all over the bottom as you see on your screens right now. There have been some arrests made, as i was even walking to this camera, i saw a number of Capital Police taking out protesters with their hands behind their backs. We have not gotten an official word on how many were charged or what they were charged with. Certainly, no matter the arrest, you have seen this has not stopped the protesters from being here, from being loud, and this comes, of course, as President Biden is overseas in israel where he met with netanyahu this morning, where he pledged continued support of israel amid this conflict, amid this war, but there you have it, just a lot of protesters here calling for a cease fire on both sides, even right next to me, as you see mind me, and theyre singing and they are shouting, and they are passionate, and they are angry, and they are loud. Julie tsirkin, thank you for that, again. Jewish americans and their allies who had this planned protest, they all gathered on the national mall. They marched to the Cannon House Office building. Again, the message, if you could hear julie over the shouts is they want to push members of the house and the Biden Administration to call for a cease fire in gaza. Well continue to watch that protest. You can see that the Capitol Police have formed a perimeter around these protesters largely peaceful, though a few of them have been taken out of that part of the Cannon Office building. Well keep you posted on how that protest is continuing. Meantime, tensions have been building on the west bank with palestinians taking to the streets throwing rocks, using slingshots to target Israeli Troops. Nbcs Richard Engel is on the ground for us in ramala on the west bank. Reporter we are now in the palestinian city on the west bank. There are already some clashes here, relatively small. These are one of the clashes happening across the arab world right now after that explosion, that Rocket Attack on the hospital inside the gaza strip, palestinian Officials Say that nearly 500 palestinians were killed under what are now disputed circumstances. Israel says it was not responsible, that it was caused by a palestinian rocket that misfired, a rocket fired by not hamas but a Different Group called the Islamic Jihad, and israel says it has video to prove this and also has Audio Intercepts proving that hamas knows israel wasnt responsible. Ill give you a sense of what is happening here. These young men are throwing stones using slingshots at Israeli Troops, and if you look up behind me over here, you can see an israeli jeep. For now, they are holding that position. They have, however, been firing, what looks like live ammunition. We saw a young man shot earlier in the leg. He was carried off, taken into an ambulance. In other places, the protests are much larger. In beirut in front of the u. S. Embassy, there are many protesters there gathered expressing outrage, blaming israel and Lebanese Security forces are trying to clear them out. There have been protest in lebanon, other parts of lebanon. There have been protests in turkey, and the concern is that this outrage after an incident that caused so much death and destruction in gaza could inflame tensions in the middle east at just the worst time as israel is preparing possibly for a Ground Offensive inside the gaza strip. And the United States with President Biden not far from here in israel, in a very different looking place than here, trying to calm things down, support israel, and prevent this ongoing conflict between israel and hamas from escalating into a wider war across the arab world. Richard engel, thank you for that report. On the edge of gaza, the Israeli Military is poised for a potential Ground Offensive. A Formidable Force of 170,000 active duty troops with another 360,000 reservists on the way facing an estimated 30,000 hamas fighters. This big disparity in numb however, fails to capture the daunting reality awaiting Israeli Troops in ga because it is one of the worlds most densely populated places. 15,000 people for each of its 139 square miles, and that does present a unique challenge, especially given hamass tactic of using human shields. And beneath the strip, this Sophisticated Network of tunnels what the idf calls the gaza metro. Its a labyrinth that stretches hundreds of miles and is heavily bobby trapped, deeper that bombs can reach or satellites can see. Joining us is john spencer, chair of Urban War Studies at the west point modern air institute. Thank you for being with us. Israeli forces have fought in gaza before, most recently i think it was in 2014. What does that experience tell us about how this offensive could play out, not only for the soldiers on both sides, but for civilian caught in the cross fire . That its going to be extremely costly, extremely destructive. It will look like the ground was raised even indiscriminately engaging targets. It will be combat for the idea if they learned that in their previous operations. They have designed many capabilities exactly for that, but tunnels, tunnels, tunnels. Unlike anywhere other than the north korea and the world with that many tunnels designed for military purposes. How do you even begin to navigate this tunnel network, and presumably search for the 200 plus hostages who could be down there . Very very slowly. You basically cant use other known ways to deal with tunnels, whether to destroy them, close them, flood them. If you believe there is noncombatants and especially your own hostages, although, hamas is known, as you said, but this makes it a very adds to the complexity, and the time it would take to clear a single tunnel. You write for the modern Warfare Institute thas will have already placed its leadership, its fighters, weapons, critical supplies like water, food and ammo in those tunnels, which can withstand israeli air attacks. So the question many people might have is strategically why continue the bombing given the intense International Pressure israel is under to protect civilians. Because Israeli Cannot Complete The Military Mission by bombing it. Thats been the lesson of the last multiple decades with hamas Military Capability that is under ground is that bombing tunnel entrances, Bombing Complexes like they did in 2021 does not work. You have to move forward and clear and destroy that Military Capability. Its unfortunate, but theres really only one way you can accomplish that mission. President biden spoke of the need to protect Palestinian Civilians earlier today in tel aviv. Let me play that for you. You cant look at what has happened here to your mothers, your fathers, your grandparents, sons, daughters, children, even babies, and not scream out for justice. Justice must be done. But i caution this while you feel that rage, dont be consumed by it. The vast majority of palestinians are not hamas. Hamas does not represent the palestinian people. We know that this is the administrations stance, but how close is it, if at all, to the israeli stance . I think its very close. Even i served after 9 11, i was in the military, i was sent to iraq. I fought in battles. Doesnt mean i was looking for revenge. The idf have all signed so far, will follow the laws of war, even in the execution of this brutal mission. Both sides had the legal obligation to protect civilians. Its natural, but those words, israel has the right and duty to protect from this ever happening again, and that mission could accomplish that. John spencer, important information, and we thank you for taking the time to be on the program today. Appreciate it. That is going to do it for us this hour. Make sure to join us for Chris Jansing reports every weekday, 1 00 to 3 00 p. M. Eastern right here on msnbc. Our coverage will continue with Katy Tur Reports right after this break. Rts right after this break it disrupts my skin with itch. It disrupts my skin with rash. But now, i can disrupt eczema with rinvoq. Rinvoq is not a steroid, topical, or injection. Its one pill, once a day. Many taking rinvoq saw clear or almostclear skin while some saw up to 100 clear skin. And, they felt dramatic and fast itch relief some as early as 2 days. Thats rinvoq relief. Rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. 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