and the rampant spread of misinformation online about the israel-hamas war. we are going to separate fact from fiction with two experts as the 11th hour gets underway on this tuesday night. ♪ ♪ ♪ good evening once again, i am stephanie ruhle, live from msnbc headquarters in new york city. president biden is on his way to israel as we speak, as a crisis in the middle east appears to reach a tipping point. biden's mission, to show support for israel in its -- and to press for aid to gaza, now in the midst of a humanitarian crisis. but just hours ahead of biden leaving d.c., a powerful explosion rocked a hospital in gaza, killing hundreds of people. officials in gaza and in israel had blamed one another for the blast. that has inflamed already high tensions across the region. nbc's richard engel has more. >> -- >> palestinians call it a massacre and say -- hospital in gaza city, a direct hit with thousands of pellets to palestinians -- airstrikes on gaza -- gaza's health ministry which is run by hamas says hundreds are dead. body seen lying -- the wounded were rushed to another hospital in gaza city. young children are among the victims. >> it was an -- a big thud and the -- on top of us. -- lots of children, very young children whose bodies were laying on the floor. >> this could be a tipping, point triggering rage cross the arab world, just as the region is on the brink of a wider war. israel quickly denied responsibility and said the explosion was part of a palestinian rocket that misfired, launched not by hamas but by another palestinian militant group in -- protests erupted in the king cat a heinous war crime, and president biden's impending visit is now in jeopardy. the leader of the palestinian authority, mahmoud abbas, a moderate, left jordan -- other arab leaders and now that summit has been canceled. inside gaza, hamas he's under pressure. on monday the top spokesperson for the group's military wing claimed the group is willing to release an unspecified number of foreigners they took hostage during their attack in southern israel. today, a senior hamas official told me that offer has expanded. >> we are ready to release all the civilians, including the foreigners. >> all of the civilians including the israeli civilians? >> including -- >> i'm sorry, can i just clarify this? you say you are willing to release all the civilians, including the israeli nationals, if there is -- a stop? >> including the israeli civilians and all the foreigners. >> and what are you asking for in order to do that? do you want the airstrikes to stop? is that the condition? >> stop the aggression. how can we -- technically, logistically -- >> our viewers might here that and say this offer doesn't mean anything. that if you are not willing to carry it out, it doesn't mean anything. >> how? if you stop the aggression -- it can be implemented in the next hour. >> let's get right to my khalid, ellison barber, who is at the israel gaza border. it is just after six a.m. 6:00 ellison barber -- >> stephanie, you might be -- overhead, throughout the, night we -- throughout the sound of military aircrafts, military helicopters and drones circling over this area. when we look back to the area behind me, which is part of gaza, you can see sometimes when something goes off -- the glow of orange from where we are standing and we had not heard from the overnight hours any sort of our hunch artillery bombardment -- into gaza. we have not heard anything rockets was coming from the section of the border out of gaza into israel last night. in the overnight hours we heard quite a bit of -- coming from the israeli side into gaza. that has not been the case tonight. most of the discussions, the talks, from the israeli military to all of the different parties inside of gaza have been focused on what happened at that hospital in gaza city. there is a lot of finger pointing going on right now, and nbc news has not been able to independently verify who is responsible for the explosion at the hospital. but we do know hundreds of civilians have been killed. we have seen videos that have been given to our teams from people inside of gaza. we've heard from people, but who were there witnessing it, and it is an absolutely horrific situation. one of the doctors who is working at another hospital and in gaza city, we are they are treating a lot of the patients who have been sent over from the new al ahli hospital where that explosion took place, they have described to us help that were already at the brink. they were already passed their capabilities. they don't have enough resources there. they say they were already overcrowded, full of patients, and now they are treated so many people who are injured and is bombing. there are so many bodies, they say, they cannot keep up with the situation that has happened. fear and what all the doctors working at that hospital told us, they feel, right, now like nowhere in gaza is safe. no hospital is safe because of what has happened tonight. there was a press conference earlier this morning, earlier tonight your time, a spokesperson for israel's defense forces said they are planning to brief president biden on the evidence they say they have in terms of who carried out the attack on this hospital. again, they are claiming it wasn't him. they are saying it was islamic jihad. they're saying they have video footage they plan to show the president, as well as audio recordings, they say, intelligence operations have collected that they claim show, and you can hear and, them islamic jihad saying something that indicates that were behind this or had something to do with this. israel is claiming that a rocket or rockets, headed towards israel misfired and struck this hospital. hamas, gaza's military of -- the way that the bomb fell, this had to be done aerial bombardment like the attacks we've seen israel coming out, essentially saying we don't have the weapons or capability, it wasn't us, we do not know. nbc news does not know who is responsible for this. but we know a lot of civilians lives have been lost and we know the idf plans to brief president biden on this when he gets to israel. stephanie? >> maybe the most important point. we might not know who caused it, ellison, but we certainly know who is suffering. ellison barber, thank you so much for being here tonight. please stay safe where you are. i want to bring in our panel tonight. i'm not nevada amna nevaz and ben rhodes -- former national deputy security adviser for president -- >> amna, i want to turn to you. -- we knew about it yesterday, before this horrific explosion. >> the trip was already high stakes, stephanie, and one of the presidents main goals and making this trip was not only to show solidarity, as he has continuously done over the past days with israel, to say that the u.s. will stand by them in this war against hamas, but then also to try to contain this conflict from expanding beyond the borders it is already in, broadly, into the region. that was the region reason -- with the leader of the palestinian authority, the leader of egypt, with king abdullah of jordan was going to be hosting that summit is now canceled. so -- those conversations -- on this trip. the other part of this meeting is also to try to leverage some of that open and candid relationship we have heard white house officials say the president has with prime minister netanyahu, to say -- allow humanitarian aid in. people of gaza, innocent civilians who were caught in this cross fire, they need food, they need water, they need access to electricity. they need access to a. humanitarian corridors, to actually evacuate some of the areas being hardest hit. everyone we talked to inside gaza says there is nowhere that is safe right now. and also to try to press the israelis to do more to minimize civilian casualties. we know in that private conversation president biden had with mr. netanyahu last week, that was part of that message that's been delivered. and since, then thousands of palestinians have been killed including hundreds and hundreds of children. and so even in this fog of war, as we are trying, responsibly as journalists, to figure out what we can effectually say about who is behind this latest atrocious attack on this hospital, in many ways, i'm set to say this, we may not know and it may not matter. because people who express propellant indian sentiment you've been watching the largely indiscriminate bombing by israeli forces across gaza who've seen innocent civilians already killed, likely won't believe any evidence that comes from israeli officials or from the u.s., or from journalists right now. because they've already seen so many people killed. because i've already seen hospital facilities and ambulances and united nations run shelters and schools that have been hit. so it is our job, i will say, to get to the bottom of. this to report what we know based on the facts. but in terms of the impact on the ground, this might be a tipping point. >> ben, when president biden announced his trip to israel, antony blinken had been to several countries in the region. he had just finished a seven hour session with netanyahu. this time last night, it felt like that was some progress. because the hospital explosion, has a changed all that? >> i think what it's done is it's made and already risky trip that much riskier. look, i think if you listen to tony blinken yesterday, he it was clear that he had just been in these arab countries. and it was clear he was trying to message several things. one, getting humanitarian access and humanitarian supplies into the people of gaza. at the other, i think, was pretty clearly messages from arab leaders that they were concerned about what public opinion was doing in their countries. that there is a risk of an explosion, not just -- regionalization with hezbollah to the north or on the west bank from palestinians there who've been in back and forth violence with the israeli settlers, but also in arab capitals and also risks potentially to u.s. embassies. and i think that was a bit of the backdrop for the messaging from the white house so to emphasize. that a big part of this trip is trying to secure that humanitarian -- opening, that humanitary access. i think this horrific event at the hospital, which i want to echo, we don't know what happened, but we do not want no -- even more dire humanitarian circumstance. i think that makes it that much more tricky for the white house, i think it makes that much more important that they're able to leave that meeting showing something really tangible and substantial on the humanitarian front. not something symbolic but something that can significantly alleviate some of the suffering we're seeing, whether it's credible safe zones, whether it's robust commitment to get humanitarian supplies in through the southern border. and frankly, honestly, i think what you're hearing -- from the white house as well is that they there are going to have some hard questions about this great invasion. how extensive that is going to -- be if this is what gaza looks like now, imagine what it can look like if 100,000 israeli soldiers -- imagine what the risks are to israelis, including those israeli soldiers. so, this is a really high stakes meeting. it's almost hard to think of a similar meeting the president of the u.s. has had in such a fluid situation and what it is really an active war zone. >> jeremy, how do you think this explosion changes things? >> first, i give president biden tremendous credit for boldly going and standing by an ally. we are just obviously ten days after the worst atrocity against the jewish people since the holocaust. he's been so resolute, some so morally clear, for him to go to tel aviv, to go to jerusalem, to go to the war cabinet that -- now, to ben's point, the reaction on the arab street is a critical factor at this hour. but why was there this reaction on the arab street? for some reason, the news media ran out there and -- barrel, of a hamas military spokesperson before that was any evidence. i agree, at this hour, we don't know, the idf has put out a radar track showing that the missile from islamic jihad flew right over the hospital. they also say there is a second intercept of the islamic jihad fighters, talking about firing this rocket. so we don't have the evidence, at the point earlier, when i never know. but the fact that it was reported breathlessly, word for word from hamas, which obviously they -- told richard angle -- engel hostages, they are nowhere to be found. so, i don't think you can cry the timeouts. this is a dicey situation. i credit the president for going. and hopefully there -- humanitarian relief inside the -- and the u.s. can kind of transmit a message of strength and resolute support for israel at this time. >> and let's stay on this hostage crisis, because, to jeremy's -- about the conditions in which they will release hostages, but one of the presidents main missions, he is hoping to make some headway on this issue. what is his -- >> look, he is up against -- i don't even know, the hamas official -- it's important, obviously, to hear what they are saying. but i -- that guy in -- we have to bear in mind this is a chaotic situation in which there are different command and control -- hamas -- some could be internal, some could be in -- civilians. i think that what is clear is that, on secretary blinken's trip he was in qatar and -- hamas office and -- one of the destinations that have been -- exchanges saying things like egypt, another -- those kinds of discussions, and look, i think that, unless there is a comprehensive cease-fire and some negotiation, the kind of full scale -- something that i just could not foresee. but i think the u.s. may be pressing hard for-limited releases, women, children, hamas, you obviously want to see everybody -- about how moss may want to release some of the americans, for instance. so, i do think that getting anybody out there that you can is really important. that is further to the point of -- and the potential -- it gets harder actually, so, the more the military operations in gaza to negotiate for hostages if they are intermingled with that kind of -- and fighting. so, i think the administration -- diplomatically before there is a potential -- much more difficult. >> earlier today, my colleague today lester holt spoke to the father of a 23-year-old american man, who is currently being held hostage. i want to share a bit. >> how do you think he is doing? >> -- is not the strongest guy physically, but he has a very tough resilient, mental makeup, and i do pull strength from that. i keep saying to myself throughout the day, don't give up. >> i am so amazed by how strong his family members are. amna nawaz, you are just in israel. what did people say about how the government is handing the hostage crisis? >> it's so interesting to hear that father speak there because i heard this message over and over again from folks on the ground, including the number of families whose loved ones have been taken hostage, one women in particular, i will never forget, whose father was taken from the kibbutz. he is 81 years old, dependent on medication for his health, and they have no idea if he is even still alive, but the resilience and strength shown by these families, with what they are entering, the unimaginable pain, it leaves you in awe. what is interesting on the ground right now in israel, just to the domestic political situation and some more support for this war, stephanie, is you have to remember the netanyahu government was very divisive leading up to that atrocious attack by hamas. so a lot of folks will say right now, we don't support this government necessarily. we don't support this prime minister, but we support them doing whatever they need to do to keep us safe. i spoke with one man, who is a veteran of a combat unit in the idf, who has gone out and protested the government. he's pressed that state israeli occupation of palestinian territories, but he sent his son off toward, to war when he was caught up with his combat unit, because he knows that this is not sustainable, that israelis living under the threat of hamas, which is an organization that has vowed to end the state of israel, that it is not sustainable anymore. it's a different moment for israelis. >> amna nawaz, ben rhodes, jeremy i wish you all three you all night. thank you so much for starting us off this evening, i appreciate it. when we come back, we have got to talk about politics. two weeks later, and still, there is no speaker of the house, as jim jordan officially fails the first ballot. david jolly and matthew dowd are here on the chaos in the house and to remind us about jim jordan's record in congress, maybe answer why he would even be up for speaker. and later, the wave of online misinformation about the israeli hamas war. we will talk to jake ward about the dangers of lies lies that are shaping opinion of the conflict. the 11th hour just getting underway on a very important tuesday. tuesday. to finally lose 80 pounds and keep it off with golo is amazing. i've been maintaining. the weight is gone and it's never coming back. with golo, i've not only kept off the weight but i'm happier, i'm healthier, and i have a new lease on life. golo is the only thing that will let you lose weight and keep it off. who loses 138 pounds in nine months? i did! golo's a lifestyle change and you make the change and it stays off. >> the house of representatives (soft music) has been without a speaker for two weeks, and no republican has been able to get the votes necessary to win a majority. the current front-runner and election denier, jim jordan, is a divisive figure, even within his own party, and a constant defender of donald trump, no matter what. here is just a little reminder of who this man is and what he has set on the record. >> americans instinctively know that there was something wrong with this election. somehow, the guy who never left his house, wins the election? he asked for an investigation, we should do our duty, should object to and go forward with this objection to the arizona electors. >> did you speak with president trump on january six? >> yeah, i spoke with the president last week, i speak with the president all the time, i spoke with him on january six. >> we control the power of the purse, and we will have to look at the appropriation process and limit funds going to these agencies. 2016, -- they spied on his campaign, 2018, the mueller investigation, 2020, they suppress the hunter biden's 30 story,, 2022, they rate his home nine days before an election. now, they indict the former president, the top candidate leading and every poll. >> he declassified the material. >> but he says point blank on tape, as president, i could have declassify it, now i can't. >> how many ballots are you willing to go through? >> we got to have a speaker, and it can't be some deal with the democrats. the american people don't want that. >> after failing to secure the votes this afterno, rdan says the next speaker vote will go down tomorrow at 11 am. back with me tonight to discuss, former republican congressman david jolly and msnbc senior analyst matthew dowd, also a former george w. bush's strategist and founder of country over party. mr. jolly, to you first. you had the honor of knowing jim jordan personally. you worked together. what do we know need to know about this man? >> he is an insurrectionist, conspiracy theorists whose bid for the speakership's as that as ron desantis's bid for the presidency. this will not happen tomorrow. look, we are in the world of all bets are off, but it looks like jim jordan is not the night, and he should be. the question becomes, what next? i still am and decamp that there are no crossover votes, no republicans that will vote for a democratic speaker, no democrats that will vote for a republican speaker, so then the question becomes, who do you move to an interim or a. caretaker speaker? do you move to an interim patrick mchenry, within, have temporary expanded authority says bigger to pass a little bit of legislation around israel, ukraine and the budget? that seems like common sense, but even that gets mired in the fact that republicans are out of step with where the nation is on policy, therefore, they don't want to lose the democrats, even in that environment. republicans today are just as bad off as they were two weeks ago. >> let's actually talk about policy, matthew. maybe i am naive, maybe i am speaking for the everyday americans who liked their elected officials to actually get something done. in jim jordan's 15 years in congress, not a single one of his bills has been signed into law. why would this man be chosen for the most important role in congress? >> if you think about it, he's actually today's perfect representation of the gop. he has not accomplished anything in office. he's been credibly accused of covering up a sex scandal, and he's been instrumental as part of an insurrection. he's almost the perfect gop candidate for this. this to me, putting jim jordan in charge of the speakership, it would be like a football team, a nfl team saying, we will have a starting quarterback who's never completed a pass, and who does not believe in the rules of the game. that is who we will make our starting quarterback in this case, that makes no sense, except in today's gop, but in today's gop, he seems to be the perfect character that fits with all of those attributes. -- opposite of a perfect character liz cheney i want to share what she said about jordan speakership it. >> jim jordan knew more about what donald trump had planned for january six than any other member of the house of representatives. if the republicans decide that jim jordan should be the speaker of the house, there will no longer be any possible way to argue that a group of elected republicans could be counted on to defend the constitution. >> david, jim jordan is an election denier. he does not accept joe biden as our rightful, lawful precedent. we had to keep reminding our audience just how much this man was involved in january six. what's your reaction to that? >> yeah, stephanie, this is the serious part of jim jordan being on the cusp of winning. first of all, if jim jordan were to become speaker, it represents donald trump's complete takeover of the house of representatives. but i also believe this, it becomes a vehicle to steal the 2024 election. that is true. we know that based on jim jordan's behavior going into the 2020 election, based on january six, based on his efforts to overturn it and his lack of cooperation with the j six committee, if jim jordan become speaker, the house will be used to try to steal the 2024 election. i believe that. but to defeat jim jordan, i think it would be at the hands of some real policy walks in the republican party. as matt said perfectly, he is the culmination of the last 20 years of republicans, which has moved us from less government, no government to government is the enemy. who will stop jim jordan tomorrow? i think it is actually the appropriators in the congress, the republican appropriators to believe that they have chief achieve conservative results by keeping the government open. jim jordan is a shutdown conservative, appropriator to govern. i think jordan will come up and the house floor. he would not have the votes because governing conservatives will lead out shutdown conservatives. >> matthew, i want you to do some moderate math for us. what is a worse deal for moderate republicans? to hold their nose and work with jim jordan or cover their ears and work with democrats? >> i mean, if you are looking at this from a pure political calculation of those 18 members in biden districts, clearly purely did a political calculation, for them to win their own districts in that case, it would be much better for them to pair up with democrats and sort themselves through this then pair up with jim jordan, who on almost every single issue, is out of step with moderate voters, which don't we'll have to elect those republicans in those districts. if they were just looking at crass politics, which i actually think, unfortunately, most republicans have given up on actually, they no longer listen to politics, they no longer care about what voters think. they just care about what one person thinks about down in mar-a-lago, and that is what gets in this difficulty. i still hope, still hope to lay out hope that there are enough republicans, even if it's a small number, that will do enough to figure out this and not reward jim jordan, who has no business being in congress, but most of all, he has no business leading a house and has shown no interest in leaving in his 15, 16 years there. >> he's also absolutely abysmal at fundraising, which is a pretty important thing, when you got that cake. gig. david jolly, matthew dowd, thank you both for being here tonight, i appreciate it. when we come back, as the israel-hamas war escales, so do hateful threats. our next guest shares her international fight ag antisemitism, when the 11th hour continues. hour continues you deserve better than that. i'm hungry, i'm in a hurry, i don't have time to make anything healthy. you could if you had a blendjet. blendjet? it's the portable blender that makes the healthy choice the most convenient choice. i don't know. it seems like a hassle. hahaha! wrong. just pour in some milk, add some frozen fruit, and bam! you've got a nutritious and delicious smoothie. mmm! that is good. you're welcome, sad office guy. get yours today at blendjet.com are we in in an ad? we sure are. >> hamas is deadly terror attack in israel could inspire more violence against jews and muslims, according to the fbi. the agency is tracking a sharp rise and threats against both groups in the u.s. and they are working with faith leaders to talk about potential threats against their communities. with me now to discuss, michal cotler-wunsh, israel's special envoy for combatting antisemitism. she is also a former member of the israeli -- knesset. michal, you live in israel. you left behind three adult children on the front lines. you spent the last week burying friends, friends children, but you came here to talk about this rise in antisemitism because it is that much of a crisis. tell us what you're seeing. what do we need to understand? >> first of all, we need to understand that israel is under complete attack. you spoke about my own three children, but there is not an individual that has not been deployed, whether on the frontlines fighting or on the home front fighting in hospitals, in schools, in morgues. we have not even completed burying all of those that were murdered and butchered and raped and burned alive. we are not done with that part yet, and rockets keep coming, targeting israeli civilians from densely populated areas of gaza, i double war crime. the urgency to understand that the same genocidal antisemitic hate that fueled these massacres, the savage attacks on civilization, actually are reflected, devastatingly, in the responses to them around the world, in protests, on campuses, on social media. that deny or explain or legitimate or scream we are hamas. imagine screaming we are i. s. i. s. post 9/11? >> i can't, and that is what i can't get my head around. i can fully understand the pure black and white evil of i. s. i. s., hamas, the attacks on the most innocent people a but we could go. but how can we make sense of the responses that were getting around the world and people who are saying, how hamas might have an argument? >> at the end of the day, the reason i am here is as israel special envoy for combatting antisemitism, israel, the nation-state of the jewish people, and indigenous people that returns returned after a millennia, to our ancestral homeland, is that attacks on jews all over the world resulted from these attacks. as you said, happened days after and in many ways, it aligns seemingly regular in the individuals, civilized individuals, who are meant to identify with the foundational principles of life and liberty, with a genocidal organization, and the only explanation for that, stephanie, is antisemitism. it's the single only explanation. a hatred that has lasted for thousands of years by mutating, mutating over and over again. post covid, people can understand that when you have a strain of a virus, and it, mutates, and what you inoculate against different the virus. let's say holocaust denial, which we all agree is antisemitism. -- anti-zionism as antisemitism. -- the nation-state of the jewish people that has enabled the pivot from targeting the individual jew and barring her from an equal place in society to targeting the jewish nation state and barring it from an equal place on the family of nations by dehumanizing, by delegitimizing and applying the double standards to it. i have to tell you, even tonight, the awful sites from the hospital, the only single entity, as we look at these tragedies unfold that can be blamed, that must be held to account, that must be blamed for everything that has happened, holding humans as shields, weapons and pawns in their war on civilization, not just the jews or jewish nation-state is hamas, a genocidal terrorist terror organization, a proxy of a genocidal regime in iran, alongside other proxies, like those -- meetings basically confirmed by the idf shot -- at the end of the day actually injured hundreds more civilians in gaza. but they too are held hostage by the same genocidal terror organization. >> we can't confirm yet the origin of what caused this explosion, but what we know is that every person in the that hospital is a victim. they're a victim of hate. and you put out a statement today addressing the rise in hate, not just as it relates to jews, but the rising hate across the world. what is your message? >> the most important thing that i think we have to understand is that this is not, as i said, just an attack on israel. this barbaric, savage terror, genocidal terror attack on the state of israel, driven by that antisemitism is an attack on our shared humanity. and we have to be very careful with the false moral equivalency that places democratic countries, who not only have the right to protect their civilians, but must protect their civilians from the genocidal hate and comparing them to that genocidal terror organization that uses human beings and actually celebrates when human beings are injured or killed. denying them access to humanitarian corridors that we create, denying or stealing humanitarian aid as we found out the evidence today, humanitarian aid that is delivered to gaza. the list goes on and on, hiding behind or below hospitals mosques so that, and i had to be so honest, stephanie, regardless of what will happen in the on coming days, more civilians will be injured. because hamas hides below the civilians and uses them as weapons. the goal, as far as i am concerned, in order to be able to hold hamas to account is not, they don't care what we say, but we care what we say. the countries that can pressure, for example, egypt too take in those that can be evacuated from neighborhoods, just as israelis, by the way, 500,000 israelis that have been evacuated from their homes, there is a border of gaza with egypt. they can be evacuated. there are responses to humanitarian aid that we can and must launch, pressure's pressuring israel or holding it to account as if it is targeting those civilians is going to, actually, be a great disservice. >> in the face of darkness, we have the opportunity to be the light. thank you for being here. when we come back, misinformation has run rampant online since this war began. we are going to get into the real world consequences of it all, when the 11th hour continues. attention hearing loss sufferers! do you have trouble keeping up with conversations? 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i don't hear anything anymore. find out if you're sitting on a goldmine. call coventry direct today at the number on your screen, or visit coventrydirect.com. >> social media has been flooded with fake videos and false information since the start of the israel-hamas war. these platforms have been a crucial tool, but they got real world consequences during war. >> a lot of the content that we're seeing right now includes terrorist propaganda, includes extraordinarily graphic violent content and misinformation and disinformation and hate speech. >> the average social media user has been increasingly difficult time ascertaining is what is real or fake. there are verified badges that could now be purchased on multiple social media platforms the give of an era of authenticity. it is not just erode public trust. this issue can have a real world impact on public safety. >> with me tonight, nbc news correspondent jake ward and achiya schatz, ceo thick at fake reporter, which focuses on fighting disinformation, hate speech and other malicious, online activities in israel. achiya, walk us through the kind of disinformation you have been seeing online in the last nine days because it is crucially important for our audience to understand this. >> yeah, we need to understand that when we started, it was a void of information created from the confusion, the fast attack and people found themselves in fear and looking for answers. into this void came all kind of interest groups trying to shake the narrative to the public, both from within the country and without the country. we've seen right way videos circulating not related to the area trying to promote narratives. we have seen iranian campaigns to glorify the war and their own act as, for example, saying that a huge cyberattack was the cause or -- was the cause of the success of the horrible attack. we've also seen internal -- group of -- trying to push narratives that would have their leaders, for example, if it was not for the failure at that leadership or the army, it was treason from within, starting to claim all kinds of things, the left or the protesters. against netanyahu -- and last, we've seen conspirators of covid coming and saying, it's a new world order and taking the moment to shape their perception and lies upon the public. opinion. >> jake, same question to you. talk to us about the disinformation that is out there, and out dangers is especially now, because there is this void or vacuum of information from governments. take about all the people who have been desperate to get information from the government in israel, and they have become reliant on whatever they can get from social media. they have no other choice. >> yes, stephanie, i really think we have been index in this terrible bargain over the course of the last few days, ever since october 7th, in which we have simultaneously want to social media to give it to us straight, right, give me the unfiltered, raw feed from the front lines of what is happening, so that i can see for myself. of course, that hunger, as achiya points out, creates an extraordinary opportunity for bad actors to come in and manipulate reality. then simultaneously, you have this absolute impossibility on the part of major platforms to truly get a handle on what israel but trying to show sort of post by post because this piece of violent content serve some sort of public newsgathering purpose or should it be taken down? all of this is to say, the moment i was most kind of tied up and did not quite know what to do was right in the middle of last week, you have jewish schools and jewish community centers across the world telling us, nbc, that they had been instructed, or had been suggested by the israeli government, that they go to the students of their schools and have them delete instagram and tiktok off of their phones. the israeli government told us that was not in fact something that they had done, multiple school said that they had. that part was unclear enough. then, you're in this moment where, of course, parents and teachers would want to shield children from violent content, but at the same time, the idea of taking social media away from children at a time when teenagers and young people are we're trying to figure out what is really happening, it's just an impossible situation. we got into a world with social media that it's so hard to tell what is real and what is fake. and, i have been speaking to -- hamas is not terribly sophisticated about this stuff. it is other actors like hezbollah that are going to be even more sophisticated if they choose begin moving across the social media space. it's an incredible devils bargain, but i think we are all grappling at this moment's time. stephanie. >> i am going to ask you the question, jake, because it only makes you harder to cover this and to deal with the social media companies every day, what you have to. what have they've been like to deal with over the last week? i am guessing that you are calling them and their pr desk every single day over the last week. are they being helpful, are they being open, are they being more difficult than usual? because what we need from those companies right now, once and for all, is open, honest transparency. what have they've been like over the last week? >> you know, i will say that it is never a terribly open communication channel. it's an antagonistic -- >> but it darn well should be. >> as it should be, that is how it is supposed to work. for me, they have beneficial statements from the major platform saying that they are taking extra steps, and they are trying to get arab and hebrew speaking operatives into position to deal with misinformation. they issue official statements to us wherever they can, but we don't have a good sense of what is going on inside. we don't have a good sense of how they are responding to the eu's increased pressure on them. we don't have a good sense of that across platforms, and that is, i think, one of the many difficult -- we have in -- how do we deal with the information ecosystem we are in right now, stephanie. >> jake ward, achiya schatz, thank you both so much. i am sorry. the reason i am the most fired-up's is because those very platforms that don't take down the hate, it's about all the misinformation out there, put sunlight on it and let people see what is out there, but then when you go to deal with those companies and speak to their executives on record or ask them, how they operate or how their systems work, bogus bupkis, you get nothing. when was the last time a major ceo from anyone at the major social media platforms sat down and did and on the record interview? i can't remember. but i would sure like to sit down with any of them, given how crucially important the companies are. and on that note, i wish you all a very good -- i am going to take a deep breath, and a very safe night. from all of our colleagues across the networks of nbc news, thank you for staying up late with. me i will see you at the end of tomorrow. tomorrow you know i got two home runs. you got two jacks. and then my grand slam. i signed a ball for you. okay. and it says papa i love you. >> on live from msnbc world why did you do that? because you've taught me everything about baseball. oh hunny bunny, that's so sweet. (♪♪) (♪♪) headquarters in new york, with special

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