Weapons as well as potentially trying to locate hostages taken by hamas. Weve seen jets dropping leaflets that instruct civilians to leave gaza. A warning is included therein that suggests it is for their safety coming with an attack. Leaflets airborne caught by our news cameras. Israel says it called on the u. N. To assist in an effort to get about roughly 1 million potential residents of gaza to leaved from north and go south. The u. N. For its part says it cannot meaningfully assist on that kind of timetable. Thousands of residents have been seen fleeing. Hamas has told people there they should ignore warnings, that by implication, they should stay put. The death toll is rising. 1,300 killed in israel. 3,300 wounded. Over 1,900 killed in gaza. Another 7,700 wounded. Some doctors and gaza warn of the deteriorating humanitarian situation and hospitals that only have days left of energy on their generators. The bombs keep falling, the patients keep flooding in. This is chaos. A confusion of stretchers, of injured everywhere that you look. Remember when the generators stop under israels total blockade of electricity, fuel, water, this will get even worse. This Constant Shelling has resulted in the death of a journalist today. Reuters videographer was killed by a rocket on the israel lebanon border. Reuters released this selected footage. That is some of the video they were able to take from their position. As all these developments capture the worlds attention, there is still much more that is being vetted, learned, fact checked, understood about the nature and the length of the hamas Terror Attacks on civilians in israel. Theres hamas footage that was now discovered at that Music Festival massacre, released by israel. It depicts terrorists shooting into portapotties where civilians had tried to go to run and hide. There are no easy ways to tell this story. It is a story that matters to so many. Yet understandably, some look away. Some look for simple narratives. We are trying not to do either, as part of our jobs. So in facing this at the end what was has been a long week, we have a special guest tonight, one you might remember. Foreign correspondent Martin Fletcher has been the nbc News Tel Aviv Bureau chief, reporting from The Middle East since the 1980s. You may remember him there, with all due respect, a younger version. Hes been around the world, from south africa, pakistan, and reported from gaza. Welcome back to the table. Thank you, ari. We wish we were discussing something else, but facts matter and youre here with a lot of experience. At the end of this grueling week, i begin with the question, what do you see in what hamas has done and what israel is now doing as its Counter Response . It has to be said that gaza that hamas struck the greatest blow against israel in one day, i think, in israels entire history. So i think, you know, theyre now the heroes of the arab street, one could say, in many parts of The Middle East. The question really is, are they heroes in the streets of gaza . I would love to speak to the people in gaza today and ask them, youre fleeing from israelis, you saw what happened, do you agree with what hamas did . I would love to ask them that question. Thats what i want to know and i havent seen that answered yet. Its an extraordinary blow against israel. Israel was a beaten country for a few hours, in shock and disbelief, feeling vulnerable. I think now thats turned. Now israel, its all about, wipe out hamas. Whether possible or not, we dont know. Its a country in fury at the moment. With your experience, you dont recall your factual view is theres never been a strike quite like this in one day against the nation of israel . No, the only comparable thing would be the 1948 war, the 1973 war when egypt was surprised. 900,000 civilians murdered, many of them in their beds . Babies, et cetera, all the horrific stuff weve been hearing. Its completely unique. If i may say, the Suicide Bombing Campaigns in the 90s and 2000s, i thought id never seen anything as horrific as that. About 100 Suicide Bombs. 838 israelis were killed over those years. I thought nothing could happen as bad as that. Guess what this they killed more civilians in one day than all of those Suicide Bombs put together. Right. Youre reminding people of something that was covered at the time, the first and second intefadeh, the waves of terror. Taken, we should remind people in part against what was seen as a centerleft israeli leadership that was trying to make peace in the second intefadeh. That took such a long time, and this happened in a single day. So hamas end game what is . We dont really know. Their stated end game is to free the palestinian prisoners in israeli jails. 5,000 of them. By the way, only 183 of those are from gaza. The rest are from the west bank. So thats one goal. The other goal, they say, is stop the israel actions in the holy places in jerusalem. But thats this is a thats out of balance. What the real end game is, i dont know. I think theyve been calling on the arab world to stand up for them. Days of rage calling on governments to fight. Will they spark a regional war . All these things are possibilities. I think they achieved success way beyond their expectations. They didnt expect to be able to walk freely into israels communities and kill civilians and not have the army turn up for hours and hours, in many places. In the communities in the south, it took seven to ten hours before of terror before anybody with a gun, soldier or policeman, came to help them. You say that, you say that that surprised even hamas. Because historically, they would have met more formal and armed resistance in those areas . Yeah. I mean, its a highly defended area. It was tactically, it was a brilliant stroke of hamas to attack when they did, early on a saturday morning on a jewish holiday when most of the soldiers were away. They knew also that there was a big festival going on with thousands of young people right by, very close to the border. Tactically, it was a very smart move. It was a horrific move but a smart move. When you look at the israeli response, which understandably under any version of military or International Law theres a right of selfdefense, a right to respond. Theres also great concern, weve showed some of whats happening in gaza. When you hear a country say, we will eliminate this opponent or enemy, americans have heard that about various terror groups, weve seen them evolve. There are sectarian, religious motivations underneath these things that make it very hard to root out. We have something that issic looks so much of this, is a bit sad but also striking. Its from 2004. It is you as a reporter discussing the then goal to wipe out hamas leadership. Israeli Security Soldiers say they decided last night to destroy the Whole Hamas Leadership in order to stop the militant islamic Terror Campaign against israel. Israel says it will kill the Whole Hamas Leadership. There we were, here we are. Yeah. What can you say . They said that several times. In fact, after each conflict, five or six mini wars in the last 15, 16 years. Theyve always said the same thing. They havent done it. Theyve never really went in full, in the massive way that they appear to be planning to do today. This is a different measure of combat by a great deal. If they go in the way theyre planning to go in today, they could change things. But still, theyre not going to kill all the leaders. Theyre not going to destroy the idea. The only area where one could look and say, they could possibly do this, is kill lots of the fighters. Theyve apparently killed about 1,500 of these fighters when they came inside israel. So there was some military success when the israelis finally took them on. But the idea of Destroying Hamas as an idea, aint going to happen. But because it matches a political movement, its possible they could weaken them so much that the people of gaza would say, wait a minute, this is not working with hamas. Yes, they won the election in 2006. Yes, they kicked out the fatah government, now the government in the west bank. The people of gaza could possibly stand up and say, we dont want this and take on the hamas leadership and say, politically we dont want you anymore. Hamas would be so weakened, maybe they could get there. As weve reminded viewers, when we talk about the people of gaza, were talking about a median age of 18. Were talking about the people, but also roughly half the population, younger than many other societies, for a variety of reasons. Some of them might be 16, some of them are 10 and may not have an idea about this. To your point that could cut either way. The president of the United States is out here dealing with a hostage crisis. Ive also told viewers, any normal week in any part of american history, if this Many American hostages were taken and missing, that would be the big story for quite some time. That in a way has almost been subsumed because theres so much going on. The president doing a new interview, an excerpt from a longer interview well air on 60 minutes. Lets take a look. This is not even human behavior. Its pure barbarism. Were going to do everything in our power to get them home if we can find them. Based on your knowledge of this conflict, when hamas realizes it has these americans as it goes over time, is it sorting them . Does it have a different plan for them . Does the United States, which has already reiterated a commitment not to put boots on the ground, have any clear intelligence understanding of the risk facing those americans . I think that they have as i said before, im sure they exceeded succeeded way beyond their wildest dreams. The idea they would have a couple of dozen american Israeli Jewish hostages, i think for them its a gold mine. Theyre not going to let them go easily. The idea israel may find the hostages and rescue them in some kind of military operation, that isnt going to happen. They couldnt find one israeli soldier when hamas held him for five years. The israelis werent able to find that one guy. Theyre not going to find 150 hostages in a few days or a couple of weeks. Why is that . Theyre in the tunnels . Where are they . Because hamas has been planning this so long. Theres about 300 miles of tunnels underneath that tiny area. The whole of the gaza strip is about 139 square miles. Theres 300 miles, as far as we understand, of tunnels. Each one is probably boobytrapped, multiple entrances and exits coming from homes and probably hospitals and schools as well. So israels going to go down there. Israel will try to destroy them. One way you destroy them is seal them. How do you seal a tunnel if there may be hostages down there . We dont know. Its an extremely delicate task. Frankly, the only real hope is serious negotiations. We dont know if hamas wants to negotiate. Negotiations, you think its a protracted war campaign that likely goes into the tunnels and however long that takes . Its going to go on for a long time. Hamas dream always has been to entice the israeli army into a ground war in gaza. Thats what they want. Theyre prepared for that. The area in Northern Gaza that the israelis are telling people to leave, its most of gaza city, a huge place. Two towns, a refugee camp. Ive been in all those places many times. Ive been with fighters from hamas who have been showing me the boobytraps in the ground that theyve got ready for the israelis when they come. The other people showed me buildings stocked with lots of ammunition and land mines waiting for the israelis. They want this to happen. The israelis know that, of course. Theyre highly trained. Its going to be a bitter, long battle. Finally, given all that experience, the utter abject failure that you described of israel to protect itself, you put it at a historic level, is overseen by someone who rose, netanyahu, on claims of security. If youre with him, you will have a more secure, more whatever the word, israel. Does that failure catch up with him while hes in government or only after theyre through this war . Probably after the war. Israel always unites when theres a war, try to set aside political differences. This is clearly a political failure for many reasons we dont have time to discuss. Its a political failure. The country was distracted. The israeli army and generals and security services, secret services, have been warning netanyahu for about six to eight months that their level of preparation, preparedness, is deteriorating because of all the demonstrations in the streets and the governments attention to this question of changing the legal system and reducing the power of the supreme court. The country was distracted. The Army Generals told the Prime Minister, were not fully prepared. And the Prime Minister pushed them aside. This is the result. Thats what many israelis believe. Weve seen that from many experts inside israel who still have its collective defense in mind. Martin fletcher, we thank you and were going to bring you back in our Special Coverage next hour. So for viewers who thought, this is a tough time but that guy seems like hes been there, knows what hes talking about, mr. Fletcher will be back in the following hour. I appreciate you joining us. Our coverage does continue. Weve got other special guests and a diplomat lined up. Well get an update on the speaker fight, why jim jordan is back in the mix in one minute. Im barbara and im from st. Joseph, michigan. Im a retired school librarian. Im also a Library Board trustee, a mother of two, and a grandmother of two. Basically, i thought that my memory wasnt as good as it had been. I needed all the help i could get. I saw the commercials for prevagen. I started taking it. And it helped i noticed my memory was better. There was definite improvement. Ive been taking prevagen for a little over five years. Prevagen. At stores everywhere without a prescription. All these regions in gaza have been called to the hospital to help. Because we were not enough. We couldnt handle this amount of injury. We are running out of everything in a matter of hours. So no one knows how much can we handle . Thats an account from a surgeon working in a hospital in gaza about the efforts ongoing there to treat injuries, to treat the wounded. Doctors and facilities say they are overwhelmed by the sheer number of injuries already. Those hospitals have run out of supplies. Residents of gaza are attempting to flee in response to the israeli warnings. Israeli officials continue to try to identify the victims of the hamas Terror Attacks. The United States continues to project an allied approach after the visit by Secretary Of State blinken this week. Theres great concern about the current and future hardship facing everyone, including the gaza residents and Palestinian Society, so many of whom are caught up in a conflict not of their making. The median age of gaza residents is about 18. That means half the population are people under 18 years old. Our next guest has written extensively about many of these complexities. Nathan thrall, former director of the arab israeli project. The day in the life covers the life of a Palestinian Family in the west bank. New york times called it brilliant. The book is something rare in this field, it is, quote, fair and dispassionate. Nathan, thanks for joining me. Thank you for having me. What is it that we should understand, as mentioned, about the population in gaza, some of which is now on the move, and how the very realities of that Population Affect what will be a Military Campaign waged in the region . Well, the most important thing to know is that gazas home to 2. 1 Million People. And these people were as shocked by this attack that happened on saturday as israelis were. And they are now being starved. Theyre being deprived of food, water, electricity, and fuel. Its a collective punishment, its a war crime. And the United States is not stopping this. Israel needs to distinguish between hamas which perpetrated this attack and the people of gaza who are now being punished for something that they did not do. Over 1 Million People have been forced have been told to move south and into areas that are also being heavily bombarded. One of my close colleagues and friends has been living in utter terror, separated from his daughter, unable to locate her, know whether he had his last phone call with her. And the people around him are receiving prank calls from israelis who are impersonating the idf and saying that this building is targeted for demolition. He had to evacuate his building a couple of times due to a false alarm. Hes now staying with distant not even a close friend in the south of gaza, with a bunch of strangers, and it is looking very likely that there is going to be a massive Ground Invasion. Ive never feared for his life more than i do now. Yeah. You mentioned the position, the condition of people in that in the territories there, in that position. Your criticism of israeli policy on that as of this week, what you call collective response. Youve also written about how much the people in those communities, the Palestinian Society, face that problem from israel, face the threats and the Human Shielding and the other war crimes by hamas, and increasingly abandonment, as you put it, by the arab states. There is a narrative thats very simplistic and often wrong that sort of imagines this Palestinian Society backed up by other arab states. Whats sometimes reduced to an israeli arab conflict. Its far more complex as youve written. From what you write, you say the act of hamas, unprecedented sce, comes from a sense of no other options. Part of the reason that hamas and palestinians in general feel theyre in such a desperate situation is theyve been abandoned by those who should be their allies, the arab states. If one takes a cursory look at the conversations in america, sometimes online, you dont have that understanding. You have a very different depiction or on campuses where weve seen very heated debates. Tell us about what what you mean, for example, the Refugee Crisis that the palestinians may face is not being met by support from nearby places like egypt or far away arab states . Yeah, i mean, the most immediate threat that is faced by the people of gaza and the greatest fear that they have is that this initial push israel has told that they have to move 1 Million People, need to move from Northern Gaza to southern gaza, presumably to facilitate a Ground Invasion, and the fear among the people of gaza is the next step will be to push them into egypt. That is something that egypt will try to stop with all its power. But whether it will be successful in preventing it, whether that second push will happen, we do not know. What we do know is that this level of displacement is something that we have not seen since 1948 when 750,000 palestinians fled or were expelled from their homes. And actually, most of the population of gaza, more than 70 of the population of gaza, are, in fact, refugees from towns many of the towns, actually, that are very close to the border of gaza. The areas that we saw attacked on saturday. Yeah, and running im jumping in. Im running over on time in this segment. Could you complete the point for people wondering, wait, why wouldnt egypt do something for those individuals . Well, egypt does not want to take on major palestinian population. And in fact, israel is the occupying power in gaza. The Bigger Picture here is that there are 7 million jews and 7 million palestinians all living under israeli control from the Mediterranean Sea to the jordan river. And within that area, the vast majority of the palestinians do not have basic civil rights. And that is the driving cause of all of the fighting and all of the bloodshed that we have seen over these decades. And that is the thing that we need to address and turn our attention to. If we want to have any hope of ending this bloodshed, we Pay Attention to gaza when theres a major escalation, then we ask for a return to calm. What is the calm that were asking to return to . A system of total inequality. And so its incumbent on us not to take our eyes off of this place as soon as this war is over. Yeah, and youve raised the larger Historical Context of that. Youre also talking about very complex policies. As you say, this is a region that the world, we mentioned israeli responsibility, also the arab states, also the United States the world turns to it sometimes then turns away from. So folks who are turning back to it and saying, oh, whats going on here . The fears of even a wider regional war involving multiple states goes back to a lot of the complex history. Weve been pulling from a lot of people in and around the region and experts with background on this. We wanted your perspective as well. Nathan thrall, i appreciate you making time. When we return, we have a longtime american diplomat with a view on the region. When you smell the amazing scent of gain flings. Time stops. and you realize youre in love. Steve . With a laundry detergent. gain flings. Seriously good scent. Rsv is out there. For those 60 years and older protect against rsv with arexvy. Arexvy is a vaccine used to prevent lower Respiratory Disease from rsv in people 60 years and older. Arexvy does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients. Those with weakened Immune Systems may have a lower response to the vaccine. The most common side effects are Injection Site pain, fatigue, muscle pain, headache, and joint pain. I chose arexvy. Rsv . Make it arexvy. Choosing a treatment for your chronic migraine i chose arexvy. 15 or more headache days a month, each lasting 4 hours or more can be overwhelming. So, ask your doctor about botox®. 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Within israel there is a crisis unlike anything in this countrys history. The immediate emergency priority to respond and rescue the hostages, also broader concerns about where this war and the regional conflict could lead. Consider what one Israeli National security veteran notes, that Destroying Hamas entirely today does not even mean tt its ideology would end. Arguing, hamas is a collection of people with religious faith. Belief cannot be erased. Concerns about what taking any type of full control or occupation of gaza would entail with reportedly Little Appetite for that in the new unity government of israel according to New York Times. We turn to ambassador mark ginsburg, a mideast advisor to president jimmy carter involved in Peace Negotiations at that time. Ginsburg was born in the United States, raised in israel, and was also tapped to be ambassador to morocco under then president clinton, which made him the first Jewish American to serve as ambassador for the United States in an arab country, a point noted in accounts at the time. Ambassador marc ginsburg, welcome. This is your first time joining us on air here this week since this occurred. We have much to get to. Starting big picture, set the table for people who dont maybe follow this as closely, why the weekends attack was, as our longtime reporter Martin Fletcher put it, the most serious that israel may have faced . My hats off to Martin Fletcher. Ive followed him for decades. Hes One Of The Best if not the best in the region. Youre lucky to have him. Look, ari. This was more challenging than the two wars that i was served in when i was in israel in 1967 and 73. I didnt serve in the military, but i went back to volunteer. Israel was surprised, but this was a war between armies. This attack that occurred, youve seen on the torn Southern Tier of gaza, dastardly attack in its savagery, but more importantly it caught israel off guard for 3 1 2 hours. There was not a battalion, not a corporal, no one with a Sub Machine Gun that was able to defend the people who were being raped, pillaged, murdered, decapitated. And thats just a terrible testament to the failure of the Intelligence Forces that had built a false sense of security, that somehow or other, because it was a holiday in israel, it would remain a holiday for hamas. Hamas has put out various communications. Theyve put out various propaganda. We sift through everything here. I tell viewers what makes air has gone through a process. And so here i want to quote what a hamas spokesperson said, because we think it relevant. It group had achievquote, more than it had even hoped to in its attack. They said they basically achieved this through a 3,000person battalion with about 1,500 backup. The New York Times also pointed to that account. I ask you, ambassador, do you take that at face value . What is the end game when they hit this hard and take this many civilians, including americans, back into gaza . The Hostage Situation is going to be probably almost as important as the fate of the palestinians who are fleeing to the south. Your prior guest sort of painted a monolithic view of palestinians in gaza as if they are the poor victims of hamas. And why is hamas being not given more support by egypt . And everyone has to understand that theres no monolithic way to look at the palestinians inside gaza, just the way you cant look and judge the palestinians in the west bank. I worked in the mid2000s as head of the peace Works Foundation in both gaza and in palestine. And i have a pretty damn good understanding of how hamas operates and who among the population supports them, who opposes them. And its a mixed bag. To say that these people have been placed in a terrible harms way for all of the years that hamas has ruled them i would say that that story is only half true. The other story is that they suffer from a bad case of stockholm syndrome. And more importantly, theres never been an alternative and the world has never offered an alternative even though its illegitimate, and also egypt doesnt want them because hamas is an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood. The last thing that egypt wants is an ideological infusion of Diabolical Radical Muslim Brotherhood ideology pouring over its border by adherence to hamas. And so you have to look at this perspective as, yes, we can shed a lot of Crocodile Tears for the poor victims of hamas, but many of these people im not talking about the children. But many of these people did not do anything over the last 15 years to shed a drop of blood to overthrow hamas. Right. And youre partly responding to what another guest said. But that is the complexity there. Then theres, of course, the nature of the population, right . Talking about adult age, who has that choice, whether they feel oppressed by that. As youre reminding people, egypt and others are not exactly helping what would be the alleged humanitarian crisis with a lot of pain and suffering associated with that. Thats the big picture. I mentioned your extensive background, which is why we called on you, for Foreign Policy issues throughout the years, ambassador. We wanted to acknowledge something difficult, your personal connection to this. Your nephew, eli, was killed in one of the operations that is attempting to rescue the operations taken by hamas over this past weekend. He led a Special Forces unit into a kibbutz in isel he was shot by hamas. He was 42 years old. We know it leaves behind his wife and four young children. The story and the devastation affect so many people and peoples lives. I want to give you a chance to speak on that. Eli was a navy s. E. A. L. , rose to the level of the leadership of the Commando School in israel. Had just been decommissioned three weeks ago to return home. Promised his wife his days with the Special Forces was over with. He would devote his attention to his children, his wonderful children, who i love dearly. As you may recall, ari, his father, my brother, was killed in 2006 during the lebanese war. So my sisterinlaw who lives in a kibbutz with my other nephews has lost a husband, now her son, who was a real hero. What he was called up to do was to lead a Special Forces unit to rescue hostages from that Dance Festival who had been taken hostage at kibbutz rahim. And during an attempted rescue operation, he was shot by one of the terrorists and died immediately. He was buried, unfortunately i was unable to get to his funeral in time. But over 1,000 leading officials of israel came because he was quite famous. He had led many a raid against palestinian terrorists, not only in gaza, but had his elbow blown off about ten years ago in a fight with the Popular Liberation front for palestine in one of the west bank towns. And so he had sacrificed quite a bit. Now he on behalf of our family, hes paid the ultimate sacrifice. But i can tell you, he was not someone who had hatred towards the arabs. He was what i always raised him to be and what my brother raised him to be, passionate believer in israels destiny and right to exist as a democratic jewish state. He came from a Belief System that was remarkable for all of its trials and tribulations of his family and him, having to be deployed as often as he was. He never once lost sight of the underlying love and commitment he had to theta of israel, which was infectious because this guy was not only one to ve hombre, he was what we would call, and youve heard this expression, a sabra. Tough on the outside, sweet on the inside. He smiled in his sleep. For a guy who had the roughest, toughest jobs in israels military history, this was a man who could joke with the best of them. Really appreciate you sharing that, ambassador. I know these are personally trying times for so many. Then you also have the expertise and the background, which as i mentioned is why weve called on you before. So thank you for sharing that. I understand the familys okay with sharing that. Ambassador ginsburg, appreciate your time. Well be right back. Struggling with the highs and lows of bipolar 1 . Ask about vraylar. Because you are greater than your bipolar 1, and you can help take control of your symptoms with vraylar. Some medicines only treat the lows or highs. Vraylar treats depressive, acute manic, and mixed episodes of bipolar 1 in adults. Proven, fullspectrum relief for all bipolar 1 symptoms. And in vraylar clinical studies, most saw no substantial impact on weight. Elderly dementia patients have increased risk of death or stroke. 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If the question is, can somebody emerge in the republican conference that can go get 217, the answer is no. A second week of division for republicans in congress. Floor votes have been put off because no republican has enough support to win. Steve scalise has a lead but he just dropped out in his bid trying to succeed mccarthy, a sign he didnt have or saw no path to get enough votes on the floor. Republicans have begun to openly lament this kind of chaos after ten days without a speaker. Ship without a rudder. Im thoroughly disappointed in the process. I pray to god we find something. This is a continuation of a pretty dysfunctional disease. People are frightened, people are angry. Makes us look like a bunch of idiots. The french would call it a clusterfark. This stalemate obviously and prominently echoes the infamous clashes over getting mccarthy into the job in the first place. Voting, acrimony, fighting on the floor. This time what might be different is that republicans keep punting on beginning that kind of floor vote in the full house. Indeed, while weve obviously been covering many stories this week, we can remind you republicans this week have ditched what were several planned votes, including one potentially for tonight, so they keep backing off the Floor Vote Process hoping to avoid what we all lived through last time. Today firebrand jim jordan got the most votes in a private republican meeting, so thats off the floor. Thats their own caucus meeting. He got the most votes for speaker nomination. That doesnt mean these closer than scalise to having enough votes to win on the floor. This matters sooner or later. We will need a speaker of the house in the United States of america. And the Washington Post has been following all of this, becky is with me next. I made that. With your very own online store. I sold that. And you can manage it all in one place. I built this. 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Im joined by the Washington Post congressional reporter, jackie, welcome back. And what is happening . Well, that moment that we just heard from austin scott, the lawmaker from georgia, considered the dean of House Republicans in georgia, was a pretty remarkable one. This is someone who just this morning, the guy with pretty name low id, also an establishment person who announced that he was going to be running for speaker, throwing his name in the hat against jim jordan, and ultimately lost during the first Secret Ballot Voting that we had, but didnt lose by all that much. The votes ultimately ended up being 124 for jim jordan, versus Scott Garnering 81 votes. I think very clear sign of the distrust and the turmoil that has gripped the Republican Party right now and the house gop conference and prevented them from electing a speaker. Now we have gone ten days. Jim jordan is ultimately the speakere designee, where he garnered a little more the Second Time Around with 152 votes, but there are still 55 members in the house who oppose them. Thats a lot more opposition than mccarthy had. I will remind viewers, this time is more secretive. That time, whatever anyone thought of it, it was transparent. This time, were just tracking it through their meetings and then the walk and talks out of it. What does it mean that jim jordan has this much opposition . Many people know him as a political figure, a kind of fox news favorite, a biden investigations, but is he really a person who could unite what is clearly a fractured Republican House . Well, the conference certainly is split. It means a few Different Things at the moment, ari. It means that jordan is, yes, the clear favorite. But also, there are still a lot of hurt feelings from the spectacle that we all saw play out where a Group Of Eight hard right republicans and maybe seven of them really hard right republicans, one of them a bit more mercurial, nancy mace, ultimately banded with democrats at the end of the day and ousted mccarthy against the will of the rest of the house gop conference. There were a lot of members today who were going in and out of these closed door meetings that were happening in the Office Building who were saying they still hadnt gotten over that situation that happened ten days ago, and that by electing jim jordan, putting this behind them, youre just rewarding bad behavior that had not been amended in any way to begin with. There were no rules changes, no continued conversation about getting rid of that motion to vacate, which is what allowed matt gaetz to put this, prioritize this vote on the house floor to get rid of mccarthy, and that the conference hadnt made enough progress to move forward with jordan. Theres also a bit of a proxy war going on here. Some bad blood between the former house speaker, Kevin Mccarthy, and Steve Scalise, who lost the speakers race, dropped out of it yesterday after becoming the speaker designee. So striking on issues that matter. I want to thank you you and tell everyone watching i will be with you for the next hour from 7 00 p. M. To 8 00 p. M. Well be right back. Ack. Healthcare should evolve with you, and part of that evolution means choosing the right medicare plan for you. Humana can help. With original medicare youre covered for hospital stays and Doctor Office visits, but youll have to pay a deductible for each. 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The most common side effects are pain, redness and swelling at the Injection Site, muscle pain, tiredness, headache, shivering, fever, and upset stomach. Ask your doctor or pharmacist about shingrix today. Continuing coverage of the israel hamas war. Im ari melber. Joy reid is off today. This is day seven. Israels deadline has passed for more than 1 million residents to leave the northern part of the gaza strip. Target operations have begun in the last day. They say theyre finding terrorists, weapons, and to locate hostages. Prime minister netanyahu also spoke today, vowing strikes on hamas and said that is only the beginning. 3,000 have been killed since hamas began this war with the weekend terrorist attacks. The white house says 27 americans have been killed. 14 are unaccounted for. The u. S. State department has been organizing flights for americans who choose to depart israel. There is no passage plan for those still in gaza. Were also learning more details about the plain ahead of the attack byhamas. Documents recovered that were taken basically from the bodies of hamas members actually had a coordinated plan to try to targetaeli schools and news centers and take hostages, potentially children, inside an israeli village near gaza. Joining us now from israel is nbc news Foreign Correspondent raff sanchez. What can you tell us tonight . Reporter well, my colleague and i have been reporting that shows far from hamass claim that it does not target children being true, in fact, they drew up detailed plans to send hamas gunmen, terrorists to surround specific schools in a number of kibbutz close to the gaza border with instructions to these terrorists to kill as many people as they could and to take hostages. Now, the hostages are seen as important Bargaining Chips by hamas. And they had detailed plans, almost a human relay that one squad would snatch the hostages from these schools, these Youth Centers and then be transferred to other squads Whose Mission was to get them back t gaza where they could be used as Bargaining Chips. The tactics outlined in the documents which were found by israeli officials on the bodies of Hamas Terrorists were the tactics that were executed by these gunmen in the field. It describes in detail using columns of motorcycles to move these Fast Acting Squads from one kibbutz to the other. We see them Moving Street By street, surrounding specific areas. Ultimately, this attack was carried out in the very early hours of saturday morning. So these schools were not in session. These classrooms were not full of kids. But the intention appears to have been there. Hamas rather cynically today released some video showing some of these Terrorists Holding israeli children during some of the sieges that went on in these kibbutzs. They released this video trying to give the impression somehow they were kind to children, they were compassionate to children, as they carried out a legitimate Military Action against israeli troops. But those claims undermine not only by these documents that anna and i are reporting but also by these gruesome photographs put out by the Israeli Government showing the charred corpses of babies as well as other babies who had been shot. Understood, and thank you for walking us through that what is new reporting on friday night east coast time. Raff sanchez, hope you and your team stay safe. Were joined now, Welcoming Back Martin Fletcher who has been with us as part of our Special Coverage, holly garony, and New York Times columnist nick kristof. Welcome to each of you. Nick, what do you see as important when we are monitoring what could be a very heavy incursion into gaza . I guess what concerns me is that this warning that people in the north of gaza should move. Its just unrealistic. People are not going to be able to move. I guess i fear that that is the prelude to a Ground Invasion and i guess what i fear most is that those who do not leave or are unable to leave will be regarded as combatants and be targeted. And that would add another layer of humanitarian catastrophe onto an existing one. Haula, i want to play some of the sound we have from some of the people who are more on the Service Humanitarian side. I have mentioned to viewers we dont have as much coverage, sometimes inside gaza, because of the challenges there, but we have various Video Reports and other accounts. This was a Doctor Speaking about the situation in gaza. Take a look. No one can leave gaza. No one can enter gaza. There is no crossing borders. Nothing left for anyone to do. Its a huge, big cage that we are trapped inside. Hala . Right, and adding to what nick said, the order to evacuate really essentially more than a million gazans to the northern half of the territory, for many palestinians, theres a reluctance to do that because there is a fear that if they leave, they wont be able to come back. Some of those who have been displaced into gaza come from other parts of the palestinian territories, and have felt that once they left their homes they werent able to come back. As far as the Hospital Situation is concerned, there are also, and this is the World Health Organization saying this, this would amount to a Death Sentence to people on life support or babies in incubators. And the northern half of the gaza strip is the more urbanized part of the strip. So really, youre asking people in a very densely populated area with more highrise buildings to leave with just what they can carry and to go to south, to go farther south, but really with nowhere to go, and nowhere to stay for many of them. Nowhere to seek shelter, if you will, ari. And building on that and the reporting i want to share some other indications. This is from excuse me, a hospital where they stated, look, they got two hours to evacuate. Theyre still treating patients. They condemn this action as well as health care in gaza. Were trying to protect our staff, and as for those leaflets, nick, and you covered a lot of areas with these kind of challenges that are not easy answers, but the leaflets, according to a translation, basically say gaza city has turned into a battlefield. For your safety and the safety of your families, quote, evacuate your homes and head to the south. Thats footage of the actual leaflets in the air. What is your view of what happens next there, nick, because what israel is saying is these are the conditions, theyre giving a warning, theyre going to go forward. What were hearing from, as i show the humanitarian side, this could have been differently, more slowly, with more time to save more lives potentially. So look, im not an expert on International Law, but the secretarygeneral of the refugee council, a former u. N. Official, is describing this as a possible forced transfer, whether it be a war crime, and what i do know is what is reported in gaza is its unrealistic to demand that a Million People pick up and move when they have no place to go. I mean, in gaza, a lot of people use donkey carts because there arent enough vehicles. Now theyre running out of fuel. How a Million People could evacuate, you know, its absurd, and if that is the prelude to a Ground Invasion, then in an area where almost half of the population is children, then this would build one more humanitarian tragedy on an area both israel and palestine, that has already seen way too many of them. So both of you stay with me. Martin is back at the table. All of that is important. Were looking at that reporting in that context, on the flip side, you have people in the United States here who look at this and say, this is going to be a war. War is terrible. There is a right of defense. And whatever comparison you want to use, valuing human life, civilians, or if the United States took on not only this level of casualty but had this many hostages, what it would do, what it has done in the past. You look at Fighting Afghanistan after the September 11th attacks. This is secretary austin on some of this today. Israel has a right to defend itself. Democracies like ours are stronger and more secure when we uphold the laws of war. Terrorists like hamas deliberately target civilians. But democracies dont. This is a time for resolve and not revenge. Martin. Well, look. The call by israel to a Million People to leave their homes and i dont think they think theyre going to actually leave. Israel is just trying to take the moral high ground and say we warned them. We did our best. We have to fight hamas wherever they are, and speaking from what you just saw, we have to defend our democracy one way or the other. We cant live under assault like this. In the absence of any kind of a peace negotiation, in the abc sns not in the absence of, with hamas who doesnt want peace with israel. This for israel is the final blow. They just feel they need to get rid of hamas. They warned the people to leave. Its true the people dont have anywhere to go. I mean, when the fuel runs out in the hospitals, theyre going to be candlelight in the corridors. Its going to be horrific scenes. And when israel tries to take the moral high ground by warning people to leave, saying well, we warned them, the moral high ground is a slippery slope. Israel has the support of the United States in large parcels of europe, and people understand why israel is doing what it has to do, but the moment this goes on, the more dead there are in gaza, the more we see these horrific pictures that will come out of gaza, so israel is going to lose that moral high ground. Theyre going to start losing support. One assumes they want to get this overquickly, but at the same time, theres no way theyre going to get it over quickly. You were walking us through that, the security situation, the tunnels, hamas having clearly prepared for this for a long time. Nick, as someone who does focus on writing about human rights and the rights of dispossessed, what does it do to the shall we say honest or consistent Global Community when hamas acts like this and leaves with terrorists and purports, they say they want to represent a viewpoint. We had a lot of experts on here who said they dont necessarily represent everyone who lives in gaza or in the west bank, which the u. N. Considers occupied, but for those who are taking up that side of it, hamas has sort of further cleaved such a divisive battleground and further suggested if youre going to say anything thats anywhere near supportive of their stance, then you very much risk being on the side of holding these hostages. Hamas, you know, frankly, i have been kind of flabbergasted at the sympathy in some quarters in the u. S. For hamas. I mean, quite aside from the atrocities it committed last weekend, it rules gaza with misogynistic brutality and repression as well as a considerable incompetence. And so its been a disaster for the people of gaza, and the people of gaza are far more sensible than hamas. Theres this unfortunate tendency outside to equate the people of gaza with hamas. Because people did elect them in 2006, but look, half of the people in gaza are children who, you know, are not voting. And beyond that, there was a poll in july that found that roughly twothirds of people want to continue to ceasefire with israel. And you know, hamas spectacularly broke that. I think because it wanted to invite this kind of invasion. The one thing tragically that with the israeli leadership and hamas leadership seem to agree on is the importance of a Ground Invasion, and neither side seems attuned to the catastrophic effect on ordinary gazan people. Yeah, hala, same question for you, as well as the point raised there and martin spoke about this, that what hamas seems to want beyond the shortterm terror is a longterm holy war. Yes. I agree absolutely with nick that its objective is not to establish an open free democrat in gaza, and it is a misogynistic, extremist islamist movement, and many of the people i speak with in gaza are by no means fans of hamas. I think what people need to understand is hamas didnt exist in 1948, didnt exist in 1967 or in 73. It rose from the ashes of the first intefadeh. It captured grievances of the palestinian people, capitalized on those, and what was weaponized ultimately by outside forces and outside powers and we know iran has great influence on it and also helps arm and finance it. Hamas essentially, if you look at it through that lens, is the symptom and not the cause. The cause is very much the grievances that the palestinians have, of how they live. They will tell you they feel confined in gaza, impoverished, occupied in the west bank. So therefore, from a palestinian perspective, they would argue if you solved those issues, then you would solve the hamas problem. Solving it militarily, its been tried before, and its never worked. Youre going to try it again, and you know, if history is any guide there are two points there that might be hard to collapse. One is militarily if you can extinguish the group and its adherents. Theres a lot of evidence to your point against that. The second point of what causes things, of course, may be govern our pay grade in the sense there is great poverty and oppression all over the world, sadly. We were talking today in the newsroom about how syria rules, and the great mass murder and rape against the syrian people, whether or not that has had the conditions to create, you know, a new Caliphate Movement against syria is a big question. The causal is difficult. Our whole panel stays so we can continue that conversation, but right now, im told nbc news chief Foreign Correspondent Richard Engel is ready to join us where hes been doing reporting from the border. What can you tell us tonight . The floor is yours. Reporter so i can tell you that the deadline has passed. And the israelis gave the people of Northern Gaza, the 1. 1 Million People, 24 hours to head south, to leave gaza city, and by the way, you cant actually, but in theory, you can see dpauza city behind me. The reason i say you cant is because its completely blacked out right now. Theres one on that side, one red light. That red light is in israel. Right behind it is gaza city. And what youre hearing are explosions. We have been hearing lots of explosions. Air strikes going into gaza all day. And particularly all night. Not, i would say, to the same intensity that we heard last night. Somewhat less. What many expected was after this 24hour deadline passed, and people were told, given the opportunity to leave gaza city, that the Ground Offensive would begin. That as soon as the 24 hours passed, the israeli tanks would be pushing into gaza strip. That hasnt happened. Instead, we have been seeing more of the same, more of this shaping operation, more strikes into gaza. Thats an unusual sounding explosion. More military operations, but so far, not the big push. Understood. That goes to again, were hearing that again through our feed from you, what may or may not be coming yet. Richard engle, thank you. We wish you and your team safety. I mentioned the panel stays. Well continue our conversation with some of our experts after this break. Er this break usts to earn me more cash back in my top eligible category. Suddenly lifes feeling a little more automatic. Like doors opening wherever i go. [sound of airplane overhead] even the ground is moving for me yall seeing this . Wild and i dont even have to activate anything. Oooooohhh. Automatic sashimi earn cash back that automatically adjusts to how you spend with the citi custom cash® card. [mind blown explosion noise] when i first learned about my dupuytrens contracture, my physician referred me to a Hand Specialist. 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Go to findrealrelief. Com to get started. Ask a Bladder Specialist if Axonics Therapy is right for you and to discuss potential risks. Results and experiences may vary. Your life is waiting . Israel has the right, indeed it has the obligation, to defend its people and try to insure that hamas can never repeat what its done. We continue to discuss with israel the importance of taking every possible precaution to avoid harming civilians. We recognize that many palestinian families in gaza are suffering through no fault of their own and Palestinian Civilians have lost their lives. Secretary blinken there speaking On The Issues today. I want to welcome back our panel of experts, martin, hala, and nick. We cut in at one point because our team with Richard Engel was ready. But hala, i wanted to get back to you on the points you were making. Go ahead. Right. I mean, the points i think what i was trying to highlight mainly was the israeli incursion, what that will essentially entail. Not just what will happen to the palestinians in gaza, which is predicted to be absolutely calamitous, but also what is the end goal for israel, if its to completely Eradicate Hamas. Its going to involve doortodoor, buildingtobuilding urban warfare. Its going to involve a certain level of reoccupation of gaza. In the last few years, it did so twice, but quite briefly, didnt really enter into the city centers. This is going to be a very long and very bloody battle. And i just have to ask myself, just you know, as we are all anticipating this ground incursion, really what is the end game here and what is the exit as far as israel is concerned . Yeah, and as you state that, again, one of the many aspects of this is sometimes points, policy or factual, are taken as, martin, kind of as if youre going somewhere with it or youre agitating for something. But the truth might be much more tragic and reality based which is simply these are big problems either way. I think hala is voicing something we have heard from experts in israel as well. Which is a long term policy that involved a Military Plan that puts you on the ground in gaza looks like a reoccupation of a place that even conservatives in israel said were leaving, were gone. I want to play with that in mind what Prime Minister netanyahu says the goal is tonight, to Eradicate Hamas. Take a listen. Translator i met today with the u. S. Secretary of state and we are guaranteeing the continuation of the war with more artillery, more ammunitions coming to israel. Were going to Eradicate Hamas, and were going to bring victory. Quite clearly there, quote, Eradicate Hamas and then a reference to victory. Victory in war does not always mean the elimination of the opponent, to state the obvious. You have the iran iraq war, when that ended, both countries existed. Iraq later fell in its form under hussein to the United States. I want tonow play something highlighting your coverage. This is your voice and then well see you briefly, 2004, about 20 years ago, talking about israels goal was to kill, quote, the Whole Hamas Leadership. Take a look. Israeli Security Sources say they decided last night to destroid the Whole Hamas Leadership in order to stop the militant islamic Terror Campaign against israel. Israel says it will kill the Whole Hamas Leadership. Martin. Well, they didnt. And they said that several times since. And thats the goal today, they say. How do you eradicate a leadership when you at the same time are encouraging young people to take over from those leaders . This is a campaign that has no end. Of course, israel must have been playing war games for years about whats going to happen when theres a major hamas attack against us, what are we going to do, are we going to go back in . Partially, fully, will we stay a short time, a long time . Israel im sure at this point doesnt know what its going to do, all that its doing right now is its driven by the need to show its own people its in control, they want to punish hamas. They want to they would love to kill the leadership. They will probably get some of them. But the leadership will theyll come back. So how do you defeat this . I mentioned a little earlier, the problem, the only real way for there to be a solution that is acceptable to everybody which is not including massacring everybody, is frankly for the people of gaza to stand up and somehow throw hamas out. Seems an Impossible Task because hamas rules with a very, very heavy hand in gaza. But you know, those actions in 2006, hamas then fought a war with the other palestinians, the palestinians of fatah, and they kicked them out of gaza, and they new rule in the west bank. The only real way forward for a peaceful solution of some kind would be for Economic Development in gaza, encourage the people to overthrow hamas, and then join up with fatah in the west bank. In one sense, thats what israel always wanted. In the other sense, they want the opposite. Israel encouraged the growth of hamas in gaza. They wanted hamas to be strong in gaza. So there could never be a real peace process. With the palestinians in the west bank. And to possibly expand on that point, i think it would be said after the center left israeli leadership that fell in the second intefadeh, it was the conservative right wing that said well live with hamas, well contain it, and thats an enemy we can always campaign against. And now were into internal stuff, although we talked about the internal stuff on the Palestinian Society as well. Doesnt all of this for israel, as we alluded to earlier, also stand as a reality based rejection of that netanyahu approach . Its a complete failure of that approach, absolutely. I suppose it depends what do they really want. If they dont want peace with the palestinians, because they actually want to just keep settling more of the land of the west bank, in that sense, its succeeding. If you think they want real peace, its failing. There are so many Different Things at play here. We dont really understand what the Israeli Government wants in the long term. We kind of understand what hamas wants, which is to destroy israel, which is never going to happen. I mean, i have been covering this story for 50 years. Written a couple books about the whole thing. I dont get it. I dont understand whats really happening apart from violence, revenge, violence, revenge. Terribly sad. Sometimes in russian literature, you laugh through the tears. Although were human beings so we deal with the humanity as much as the violence and tragedy. For you to sit here and say you covered it for 50 years and dont get it is really something. Nick kristof, help. You can finish the segment. So, look, i think we all understand the outrage and pain in israel, the desperate desire to uproot hamas. This would be a better world if hamas did not exist. And israel does have tactical superiority, but this goes back to something hala alluded to, what is the strategy . And the tactics it seems to be about to dewith a Ground Invasion, maybe they will kill a lot of hamas leaders, but they will provide the fuel for more extremism. They will feed that kind of rage and extremism, and over these decades, we have seen group succeed each other. Israel was initially concerned with some of the more secular organizations and it allowed hamas to grow partly because they thought there would be a bunch of religious guys in mosques to be less of a threat. Well, that changed. When thousands of kids are being killed in gaza, that is going to lay the siege for new organizations and further extremism. And i think that is going to be a great strategic failure. Right, and thats why a lot of people who know about this have looked at the facts and understand this, you can grieve and mourn, but theres a profound sense of doom about the loss of life, both what we have seen here, what we have gone through with the coming loss of life which is on both sides of the conflict. I want to thank you our panelists for trying to walk us through some of what we can understand. Its an issue that affects viewers in the United States, as this is an International Issue that may be with us for some time. Thanks to each of you. Well be right back. Ight back. Generalized Myasthenia Gravis made my life a lot harder. But the picture started changing when i started on vyvgart. Vyvgart is for adults with generalized Myasthenia Gravis who are antiachr antibody positive. 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Its gutwrenching. I assured them my personal commitment to do Everything Possible to return every missing american to their families. President biden today, he was rekoukting what he says was a Video Conference call going over an hour with those individuals. And also speaking on the homefront, what they billed a bidennomics event, juggling Foreign Policy crises while governing at home. Were also still awaiting whether there will be a speaker of the house in congress. I have more on that this hour. Meanwhile, as mentioned, the families of the 14 americans are still unaccounted for in this war. Some are believed to be active hostages held by the Hamas Terrorists. Secretary of state and secretary of defense remain in the region today, doing work, going to shore up different meetings with different strategic allies. Secretary blinken met with leaders including the king of jordan and palestinian leaders, and qatari Prime Minister. Secretary lloyd austin was in tel aviv. A sentiment that biden shared that america will remain allied with israel throughout the conflict. Im joined by david roth cough. He has written for the daily beast and he also hosted a podcast, deep state radio. David, here we are ending this week, a long week in every way. Sometimes people say, well, has everything been said yet . On the other hand, there has been so much simplistic reaction and narrative that perhaps a little more being said could help those who are interested in getting as informed as possible. I will tell you, we have heard from experts here who say were in this for the long haul. What is going to come, based on the knowledge of the region. The United States, which has come forward here to back up israel while calling for a human rights and proportionate response, is in this. Im curious as we end the week, where your thoughts are. Well, first of all, i think youre right. We need the conversations, and i gotta say, your preceding conversation was One Of The Best i have heard. Those three voices are really important to this discussion. I think we are coming to the end of what i would call the reaction period of this event. We are still heavily motivated by the horrors that we saw on october 7th and in the days immediately following. Were still grieving for the loss of life. And a lot of the reaction that even senior Public Officials have had has been visceral. But as your panelists pointed out, the critical issue is where Do We Go From Here . What is the strategy . Not just what are the tactics for fighting in gaza, but what is the end game . What will victory look like . What will success look like . And what is a cost that is too high to bear . And i think one of the things that has struck me is that the Biden Administration has kept that in mind in their speeches, in their public comments, and i know they are also delivering that message privately. And its very good for u that this is a president who has been dealing with this issue for 50 years and that both Secretary Blinken and secretary austin are deeply experienced in this region of the world. They responded quickly. They responded in a way that resonated with the people of israel. But they also responded with a message that said, lets, you know, conduct what comes next, consistently with International Law. So were off to a good start, but i still have Big Questions about what the next several phases of this will look like. We showed in a brief setup some of those regional meetings. Given your experience in Foreign Policy, what does the United States do in this hotly contested region to try to make sure this doesnt become a wider regional war . Which is something that serious people feel is a risk. Well, it certainly is a risk, and one of the things the United States did immediately is send a Carrier Battle Group into the region, the gerald r. Ford Carrier Battle Group. That was not aimed at hamas. That was a message to iran. It was a message to irans proxies such as hezbollah, dont expand this war. But i think that Secretary Blinkens trip, which included qatar today, and is going on to other countries in the region, is both seeking support, seeking to coordinate views, insuring that we do not surprise them by what we support, and also recognizing that there are a number of flash points in this region. One is in lebanon with hezbollah. We dont know what we can expect from assad in syria. There are leaders in hamas and qatar, where will that go . You have seen discussions that take the 6 billion that was going to go to iran off the table. There was a saudi deal that was in the offing. That seems to be on hold. How do you coordinate that with the saudis . Its a big diplomatic job, and it is not one that is going to be resolved in just a matter of a couple days. My last question is less important, but not unimportant. At what point do you think we would see any meaningful or important debate between the Political Parties in the United States over this . There is a longterm alliance with israel, thats well known. And for reasons that are not strategic that republicans have been consumed this week in thwarted efforts to even find a leader, a speaker, let alone have a speaker who does something on the topic, but do you see this as an area where there will be long term cooperation, which has not been the norm for the parties on issues or not . First of all, and i dont say this to be politically inflammatory. We actually have only one functioning Political Party in the United States. The Republican Party is so broken at the moment, incapable of even picking a speaker of the house, that i think its going to be a long time before we get into any kind of rational debate. But as you say, youre absolutely right. I think if there is one issue that youre likely to get alignment between both parties, it is going to be support for israel during the next several weeks, during the followon phase of this in the effort to eliminate hamas. But also then in the effort to try to find a path to some kind of more stable arrangement between the israelis and the palestinians. Understood. David, as i mentioned in other segments we called on you before for many Foreign Policy issues. Its a long week in every way for everyone. Appreciate you joining us here on this friday evening, and well be hearing from you again, im sure. David mentioned what i alluded to, that the House Republicans have had a lot of trouble picking a speaker. Its still a big story. Jim jordan has emerged as something but maybe not the ending. I have an update on that important story next. Were traveling all across america talking to people about their hearts. Ooh, take this exit. Hows the heart . I feel like its good. 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Believes in continuous improvement. Like rounded corners that resist peeling, with an array of active ingredients. And sizes to relieve your pain. Salonpas. Its good medicine. Turning to a big story in america. Well, the house is ending its second week here, this friday evening, without naming a speaker. Republicans dont seem much closer to figuring it out than they were yesterday when you may recall Steve Scalise dropped out because he didnt see a path to getting the votes needed. Today, republicans put jim jordan forward as the nominee for speaker. He got basically 124 votes versus 81 for congressman austin scott. Thats in a private gop meeting. Jordan increased his total vote count to 152, but if you dont have 217, Kevin Mccarthy set of rounds and rounds of voting acrimony. This time theyre trying to keep that in the closeddoor meetings. But were ending the second week without a speaker, and i can tell you tonight House Members have been sent home for the weekend. For a little insight, return to a former Republican House member denver riggleman, now an independent. Welcome, sir. Hey, how are you today . Im all right. Many things going on. What is it does it tell you that this is a Republican Party that took the very unusual step with a narrow margin of siding with democrats to oust its leader and now can find a new one . Its, i cant even say its unbelievable anymore, when you look at what is happening behind the conference was on the screaming that has going on. Its like monkeys screaming in flinging pool. The conference you are once in. The conference i was once in. I dont know how you sell identify within the zoo analogy, but carrion. I think people forget that on the night of january 5th, on the 11 pm, jordan sends a bizarre text to mark meadows that was actually a bit of a copy paste form a document from joseph schmidt, former d oh d Inspector General that uses sources from a newspaper like the epic times, and the incredible peter navarro, and the sources on the page or on how to overturn the election. Thats what jim jordan used to text to mark meadows that night. People are forgetting how involved jordan was in this january 6th push. Let me slow you down. There are many ways to look at different people who could become speaker. Ideology and politics is one of them. People say, oh this person is more or less conservative in the Republican Party. You are saying the fact that this many, or a majority of republicans today, friday, i considering jordan for speaker is concerning because of his record, not an ideology per se, but on evidence that he was part of an effort to overthrow the lawful win of an election . Yeah, i think its a bit both an ideology, but yeah. How do you have, in this time, and Everybody Knows about january 6th, you could have a complete republican leadership, all three, were talking about the speaker, the majority leader, and the whip, that all voted to overturn the election. Or were actively involved in trying to coordinate overturning the election. And to me, knowing what i know about january 6th, knowing about the data that we have seen, all of meadows text messages, how jordan was part of it all, we had 155 on the second vote that voted for jim jordan for speaker. As our nominating portion of. That and i think its shocking to me seeing that a gop has gone this fire. I knew it was gonna get worse, but i didnt think would be this bad. 150 people voting for as an election denier speaker of the house. Youve been in these kind of meetings. What happens . How intense does it get when Everybody Knows sooner or later youve got to get to that number . Mccarthy didnt have a to start. We lived through. That he didnt have it finished. He got ousted. A very short speakership. Is this kind of a therapeutic process, whether saying all, well try this, because he was next up, but jordan, hes got the trump thing. And what point does it get real . Or is it real right now . Right now im going to tell you this, ari, it is impossible to predict congress. My intelligence, when i was an Intelligent School real way to predict this the future is to first. Im gonna tell, you jim jordans not gonna be speaker. What makes you confident about that tonight . There are enough people there, jim jordan has made some enemies. What is it only four, five, to vote against him for him not to be speaker . The last voting conference he only got 155 votes so he has to make up 60 or so votes in order to get it. I just dont see him getting it. Ill give you the last word. Reportedly he said, quote, america wants me, end quote. I think thats bullshit. 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Those are the words today from defense secretary lloyd austin speaking on the ground in israel, i thought from the United States in what has been a difficult week for so many. Im ari melber signing off, but you can stay with msnbc throughout the night as we cover these events out of The Middle East. I can tell you joy will be back on monday, and all in with chris hayes starts now. Starts now