Transcripts For MSNBCW Dateline 20240703

Jeremy corbyn says. But i think they will get picked pretty short shrift from the leadership. Theyre watching people like a hawk on this. Can we come back to you in just a moment, but it is just after 9 00. You are watching Sunday Morning with trevor phillips. In the last hour, israels ambassador to United Kingdom has told this program that israel is at war. She says that one of britain is in gaza as attacks continue. Here in liverpool at the Labor Conference, the partys Health Secretary west reading said he unequivocally condemned the action by hamas. He and as we are on top of the hour, lets get the very latest on the situation in the middle east now. And were going live to our own International Affairs editor, dominic waghorn. Hes in the southern israeli city of dominic, what is the latest where you are . Well the, latest here travelers were just north of gaza. What were hearing here is quite a lot of big israeli gardens, Firing Shells and gaza in response to attacks that hamas launched on the city and others. They hit a Medical Center here overnight. After the patients have been moved from there, fortunately. But also hit a residential area as well. I think more worrying for the israelis as whats happening to the east of, here south east of here, installeds, and berry, and these towns on the out skirts. Deep into israel, 15 miles or. So in those towns, we understand that the Palestinian Militants are Still Holding hostages and patrolling the streets. More than 24 hours into this operation, the hamas still controls part of israel, which is an unprecedented situation for these rallies, and an extraordinary challenge to the israeli military. They say they are confident they can deal with that threat, they are now launching air offensive, artillery strikes, Fighter Jet Attacks on hamas targets in gaza. And they say a Ground Operation is imminent. That we see in israel explaining these kinds of attacks to deal with the palestinian threat in the past, but they now very different and way to deal with, an enemy thats proven itself to be an effective fighting force that can erupt from gaza and break through the fence and in multiple places, launch attacks on israeli civilians and soldiers dancing on israeli tactics. Extraordinary pitches weve seen, and now melting back into gaza, most of them and taking with them scores of israeli hostages. Thats a big challenge for netanyahu in his command of the ponderous what to do next. How do you go on to deal with the Homeless Threat while theyre holding so many israelis hostage . In unprecedented situation. The Israeli Government has never dealt with this in their history. Dominic, thank you very much. Well be hearing from you through the day, i think. Stay safe. Now, lets hear from the government. I can speak to the transport secretary, mark harper. Good morning mr. Harper. Good morning, trevor. Many of our viewers will have relatives in israel. What can you tell us about the safety of british citizens in israel right now . Weve already heard from the israeli ambassador that at least one british citizen is in gaza. First of all, let me just say, weve all been horrified by the barbaric scenes that we saw with hamas is indiscriminate attack yesterday. And we are unequivocaly in support of the state of israel as they deal with that threat. And they have the absolute right to defend themselves. On the subject of british citizens, we are obviously working very closely and have been in contact with the Israeli Government about any british citizens in israel. Will obviously continue to work with them, and get information to work with their families back here in the United Kingdom. Is there travel advice that you need to give to the public . Yes, im not going to give it here on air. I would refer people to the Foreign Office website on gave uk because that information is kept up to date and up to the minute based on the latest position. And of course, my department is working closely with airlines that fly to israel, working with the Israeli Government on the position there, to make sure we keep people safe. Thank you. Could we turn to your own responsibilities as transport secretary now . He last week, your leader spoke several times about long term decisionmaking, which to most people would imply some kind of bipartisan agreement. On for example, a chance to . What would you like to hear from this week . On many subjects, but including on a chest, who it would be nice if the labour party had the same position one day to the next. We made our position very clear last week. The Prime Minister is set out why we had changed our position on a chance to, which is because the facts have changed. Cost of the project i have gone up significantly. And the benefits of reduced partly because of the change in travel habits. Were taking every penny that weve saved and we are reinvesting that in other transport infrastructure across the country, in the north, in the midlands, and elsewhere to projects which actually we think better fit what is needed. Id like to come back to that, but i asked you what you like to hear from. If i may say so, i dont think its the best invitation to the Opposition Party to join you in an enterprise to start by telling them that theyre flipflopping. Isnt there an invitation here to join you in a common cause . Look, has had multiple different positions on a chance to, and i listen carefully to what the leaders said yesterday. She had a different position saying that she wanted to carry on building a chance to. Weve set of opposition clearly, which is that we want to take every penny that were saving and reinvested in the transport projects. Its for others to decide what they want to do. If they dont agree with, us and they want to carry on building a second phase of agents to, with and they need to tell people whether they want to cancel those other transport projects. Look, i would urge everyone to do what weve done, which is to put the National Interest first, to make the decision that we have, we think thats the right decision for the future. We look forward to campaigning on that in the general election, to winning that election, and delivering on those commitments. All right, well lets test your claim to clarity here. Youve launched this idea of a new net worth north that supposed to soak up this 36 billion quip that you freed. If i can just ask you quickly for some yeses and noes on some things, is the bradford station going to be built . Yes, it is. We were very clear about the promise to bradford, 2 Million Pounds for the station. I was in bradford yesterday. The labor leader of the council, and they welcomed our commitment to that investment in bradford. That is agra bleak clear. Let me ask another one. You said last week it was going to happen. Euros minister said since, you are just looking into it. Who is right . What were doing is were going to develop a vince case for that, but weve made a big commitment to the northeast elected mayor for a significant amount of money. I think 1. 8 billion pounds. And it will be for them to decide how they spend that money, and they obviously have many sidelines, one of their priorities in the incumbent position said that our last week. Thats an amber on that one. Let me ask you a third one. Is the houston station going to be billed even if there is no private money . Weve been very clear. We want to get used in build. Were gonna take away the delivery of the station from hstlimited. We think its much better if we have a more ambitious Development Plan for used in. Have a Development Corporation to build thousands more houses. More business development, and also private investments are you going to guarantee that is going to be built . We think are you guaranteeing thats gonna be dealt . Weve just demonstrated with the development of weve got nine billion pounds of investment into that scheme, including to develop the extensions to the underground. We think thats the right model to save the taxpayer money and deliver public infrastructure. Okay, you see why im about bothered by this year. Youre very clear on your first answer, but your second answer is, depends on what thanks. Your third answer is like weve done Something Like this before, but you can see why people are bit anxious about. It you announced that the Manchester Metro extension, which by the way had already been billed. You announced contactless take again. The point im really making here the Manchester Airport extension is an extension. It only goes to one terminal, its now going to go to the next terminal. So thats actually a new project. Its an ad on . But you see what im saying. On all of these things, theres a level of ambiguity, which you want from your opponents, but you are not necessarily delivering yourself. No, i dont think theres anything ambiguous at. All we take every penny of the savings from a chance to, 36 Million Pounds. And we set up how its going to be spent in parts of the country where a chest who is going to be spent. So most of, it two thirds going to the north, ten billion pounds going the midlands, and the same thing for getting private in the country and happy to be judged on it. The one question, that the Prime Minister didnt quite answer in a speech last week. He said he took his decision because the facts had changed. On july the 17th, you tweeted that a chance to would connect our largest cities that must include manchester in birmingham ton, because theyre the third or second, and it would create Tens Of Thousands of jobs. He said that on july 17th. What actually happened in 11 weeks between july 17th and last week . What facts changed . Two things. First of all we are committed to delivering a chance to frame thats a huge project. Huge amounts of public money to deliver a big capacity increase and it will still take 30 minutes off their journey time between london used in and first of all, were still building. That second, the second point is that we are seeing increased costs pressures on delivering a chance to. And the decision for the Prime Minister and myself was whether we wanted to sign up to those increased you knew all that in july . Whether was right to reinvest it. There is been an increase did you not know that in july . That there is a vast overrun in july . We did. But weve had further were done by the company that at some point you have to say, do we continue spending more money on a project where the benefits of reduced because of different ways people now travel . Business and Commuter Traffic is down by half, for example, on the runways. Commuter traffic forgive me, we have heard that. You made that decision. Forgive me, we are running out of time. But it seems to me that it was and the facts that changed. It was your mind that changed. There is no dishonor insane that. You knew all of this in july. You just changed your mind. Why not say that . Well, look, the pressure is on the finances have actually changed over the summer. And weve looked at the facts, we work through all this information. And when the facts change, you make a different position. Mark harbor, thank you so much for your time this morning. Thanks very much, trevor. Thank you. But now, lets go back to our panel. Jackie smith and mcallen lawyer and aishas are r. I. C. O. That was interesting. What do you make of that . Its quite a hard gig for mark harbour on a Sunday Morning. It is his job. What is hard for him to explain is why there was no kind of obvious road to this reversal, even a few weeks ago, as you are pressing him in your mischievous way. Ma . Mischievous. That is difficult to explain. I think the other thing that is unclear is they euston development. It might sound like a bit of a london story, but in fact, its very big. Anything that slows from, it the purchases that followed from that decision to have this real huge commitment, and it was a big commitment, which is why they were behind. That you saw David Cameron come out this way very angry with rishi sunak for backing off of. It you dont do a big hole on the ground, the cause of a disruption, now you change your mind. There has been such a big cost overrun, that it was known previously. And i think how the conservatives have been thinking more clearly, and they wouldve graded road to this decision. They wouldve sent out more signals earlier rather than pulling the plug in this messy way that happened last week. The whole thing was extraordinary. We were all in Manchester Last week. The idea that this, that this story was running for about 15, 16 days. They end up bungling this announcement. You have anti impromptu press conference. All this is done in an old railway station. You couldnt make it up. But in terms of the politics, i think you have his right. If that said to people look, ive looked at the costs, im making a strong choice now. Instead, its all drips and drabs and then coming out and the politics of, this is they are big attack line against him is that you are really bad person for a change in your mind. Cut to the biggest uturn. Lets be honest, the biggest flagship Infrastructure Project of the conservative administration. So i think they have completely blended this argument about you turns in flipflops. Jackie, youve had the experience of being a minister, having this come out on Sunday Morning then do this. Do you feel a bit of sympathy for mark . As you, say its his job. Yes i feel squeak of sympathy, but theyve got themselves into this mess, frankly. And lets not forget this week in liverpool, well be talking to an extent about which countries broken and how they want to build it. Theres no better sign of that if you travel the trains between the West Midlands and london, as i frequently do. Get booted off early. The trains are running late. The capacity isnt there. Whats the opportunity, decided of course under the last Labor Government, supported up to this point by this government, to actually build some of the infrastructure that other countries take for granted and we need in this country . Jackie, let me take you on to the interview. You are now the chair of a big health authority. This overtime proposal, two billion pound reform in a 200 billion pound a year budget. It feels, sorry, its one billion for the overtime. Its even less. It feels to me a bit like hes coming to a knife fight with a plastic picnic spoon. Well, you push them rightly on the challenges of workforce, which is one of the main concerns that we have in the nhs at the moment, although we have of course pushed the government on the workforce plan and put some money behind expanding the nhs workforce. But the other area that this is all focused on is absolutely the right place, which is the nhs is under invested in terms of its technology, its digital capacity, its beds to an extent. But this focus on improving the diagnostic capacity in the nhs is exactly right it completely makes sense, and we could talk forever about the prevention, but realistically, you are chair of a health authority. Are you going to be able to say to people, by the way, we have a lovely new scanning machine, the only problem is we need you to work an extra five hours a week . Of course thats a trial in. Because before even get to that point, we have to try to get control of the way things have room to gain because of the industrial action that were currently facing. I think that it they made a fair point, that we do, of course, in the nhs, have a bank system in which our staff are able to provide extra work. Hes focusing on the right area. Workforce is the challenge, but theres investment going in there as well. Could he do it . I think hes showing that he is trying to dealing with the figures, and its a bit of an elastic way, as youre suggesting. But i think what he has to start doing is looking that labor could come in do these things, but where i do think hes on to something is that even though the sharp end of it, you are nina health you can question whether this is doable. But i think is stop Speaking Generalities but the nhs to lose the kind of sacred cow around it, and start saying, here is the money, we get to put towards the workforce flexibility. Its easy to say its not enough. Its never going to be enough. But at the moment, i think whats treating is leading the argument about health care reform, and thats quite interesting, given it was really conservative issue. I do think that actually having a reasonable time on that is going to come under pressure on the figures. More chat for a little later. Coming up, im going to be speaking to Sharon Graham. Shes the boss of labors biggest union, at donor united. The problem is she doesnt seem that impressed by the labor partys leadership. Im going to keep labors feet to the fire. Of course i want to Labor Government. I absolutely want to Labor Government, of course. But i want to Labor Government thats going to make real change peoples lives. And i think, at the moment, labors been too timid. Only the sleep number climate360 smart bed lets you both sleep up to 13 degrees cooler or warmer on either side, and at your ideal level of comfort. Your sleep number setting the allnew queen sleep number® c2 smart bed is only 880. Sleep next level. Shop now only at sleep number. Is it possible my network could take my business to the next level . It is with comcast business. Powering all your devices with gigspeed wifi. And you get fast downloads and uploads. Pick it up pick it up oh we got this because its powered by The Next Generation 10g network. More speed for your business . Its not just possible. Its happening. Get started for 59. 99 a month for 12 months. Plus, ask how to get an 800 prepaid card with a qualifying internet bundle. Welcome back. Comcast business, powering possibilities. This is Sunday Morning with trevor phillips. Now, it wouldnt be a Labor Conference without some internal battles. But with the parties seemingly set for government, the mood is buoyant as youd expect. Some though, think krista might be playing it a bit safe. As we arrive in liverpool, i was joined by Sharon Graham, the general secretary of unite, the countrys biggest union. Sharon graham, this weekend youve accused the Labor Leadership of miserable managerialism. Is that anything that they could save or do that would convince you that a government wouldnt be just warmed over blairism . Im the leader of were not a branch of the labour party. I run a union. And my absolute fundamental job when i wake up in the morning is deliver for working people. And so, if its uncomfortable for me to be raising issue like the renationalization and aegeans deal oil and gas, then im not embarrassed by that because thats my job to do it. Ive got to keep labors feet to the fire of. Course i want to Labor Government. I absolutely want to Labor Government. But i want a liberal government thats going to make real change peoples lives, and i think, at the moment, labor being too timid. I want to come to all those points, but one of those things that you said both in the article that you wrote this weekend and one that you wrote a month ago you questioned whether labor, what side is labor on . Here in conference center, were full of corporates. There are more corporates stands here than there were at the tory party conference. Are you sure labor is on the side of working people still, . I want them to be more on the side. Weve just had 13 years of tory rule, and its been abhorrent for people, people just existing. I want labor to come in and back their workers and their communities. Weve had 13 years of tories batting for big business and the rich. This is the time for labor to come in and that for our side, workers, and communities. I know thats what you want, but what im trying to get out is how confident you are that the incoming Labor Government will be the sort of Labor Government that youd want. Now, Peter Mendelsohn, whos one of the architects of new labor, im sure youre familiar with him, hes gonna make a speech this week and hill say, you gather, we have to make high level of private investment the foundation of Everything Else we would want to achieve. Example, in the role labors proposed national was funds will lever in and partner private capital. Do you agree that thats fundamental . I think weve tried a lot of that before, havent we . Im really pushing at the moment at this conference for the renationalization of energy. And we thought that it was the right thing. The tories havent reversed that, it was the right thing to have energy in private hands. That is now weve got astronomical. Bills we have no control over a key asset. It means the french people have lower bills because they on their own energy. I think labor is in favor of nationalization as long as its another country owning it. What weve got to do now is to say what are the different choices we could make that mean that the workers of the communities in britain that can feel a Labor Government. Thats the thing for me, of course i want labor to get in. Ill campaign for labor, but i want them to count. I want to be able to feel a Labor Government like we did in 1945. Lets talk about some of the things that would make you feel that its your kind of Labor Government. Lets talk about the nationalization. Even pretty clear that you want electricity and gas in public hands. You are the dominant union in the other energy sector, oil. Would you like kirsten when he speaks this week to say, maybe not tomorrow, but one day we are going to nationalize bp . What i want him to say is that hes going to do something. I want him to say that actually we are on this journey, were on this path. And part of that, and there are sort of three things that are really talking about this week. One is on the privatization and the renationalization of energy. So to take it out of private hands. The other is in relation to workers rights, and of course we have the issue around steel. We have a Steel Industry on its knees and we need proper investment and steal. So im here this week, normally wouldnt be here this year, or trevorton. Normally be on a picket line. I wouldnt be here. He always turn up at labour party conference. My job is to fight for workers. Thats the job that i have, im here for some of this week because were at the business end. Where the business end. Were affiliated with labor at the business end. And i want to say very clearly they need to put a better offer on the table for workers, now, i think, obviously. I hope they when i want them to win. But there is a difference between limping into and being carried, actually carried in there to say look, this persons gonna come in and ive gotta back. Im trying to get from you what actually constitutes that. I really want to pin you down a little bit on this. What do you want labor to say about Public Ownership of oil and gas . At the moment, were talking about energy. So were prioritizing. Were prioritizing. And im the Trade Union Leader of a union. And my members make decisions about what it is they would like us to say on these things. We had a conference in july, and the Energy Member said they wanted there. You want ppe nationalized . What ive said is that i take my league for my members, i take my lead from my members. And the priorities that were looking at at the moment or two things. Not gonna get everything. But want to steal and ones energy, now the wider issue what i think about steele is that we should have a stake in steel. We are in a serious situation of steel where effectively, this industry is literally on its knees, we could be the green Steel Capital of europe. This country could be the green Steel Capital of europe if we invested well, why have that investment and not have a stake, so theres a conversation about that. But the wider issue for me that im asking labor to do. The most wider issue is about choices. We are a trillion and a half pound economy. So nobody tell me that we cant afford to renationalize energy had what i want to make 19 billion pounds renationalizing the electricity and gas. Let me just talk you through that. Youre quite specific in yet im very specific. Basically, 19 billion pounds, assets on our book, and theyre not drinking pine town, pavin echoes away. Its an asset on our books. I would or two and a half trillion pound economy. If we make different choices, we have different outcomes, and thats the point that im trying to make at the moment, that for example, if you say 1. 5 on every but you had over 10 Million Pounds in this country. Over 10 Million Pounds and assets, that would bring in 17 billion pounds a year. Were currently doing a paper because nobody is talking about this on what other choices can be made. And there are the choices to be made ive looked at the united document. And i know youve got a report coming on this. Is that what you mean by Progressive Taxation . Then you want wells now to be taxed at a higher rate . He won more money of essentially middle class people. What were looking at is a whole range of things. And unite has a hole we were the ones are brought out the profiteering report. We were the ones that showed that the government of the Bank Of England said tenure pell dont ask for a pay raise because it will cause inflation, actually there was huge profiteering on the other side of that that was causing inflation. Let me ask a political question. One of the mps that you supported has been union for a long time. Hes now sitting as an independent, jeremy corbyn, if he decides to fight north as it independent, would you be supporting him still . We couldnt do that, trevor, because obviously our unions rulebook is that were affiliated to really burr. And if youre affiliated to labor, its just happened in july that our union reconfirmed its affiliation by a vote, a very strong vote, by the way, by a vote, and of course labours rules are that if you supported independent, you would be expelled. And therefore, that decision isnt a decision, because our members made that decision where weve effectively the supporters for the labour party because thats what our rules say that we. Do very last point. What weve been talking about is the kind of Labor Government you like to see. Would you prefer a Labor Government that will make Peter Mendelsohn happy, or another government of another color . I want to Labor Government. Lets be really clear. I one i saw Peter Mendelsohn said labor should be bold as well. That somebody agreed with me i didnt expect. I want labor to be bolder. Because of their bold, or we can deal with whats happening in society. Lets do what it says on the labor ten. Lets go in and be labor. Sarah graham, thank you very much. Thank you trevor. Coming up, this man, who knows a lot about getting labor back into power. He did it once with tony blair and new labor. So what does peter, mendelsohn, make of the current crop . Welcome back to this is Sunday Morning with trevor phillips. Next year, will bid to become just the second labor politician born in the last century to win a general election. We all know who i was, tony blair. The new labor project brought his party out of the political wilderness with a stun cain landslide. A thing the current leaders trying to replicate. At the heart of that project was a man once labeled the prince of darkness, lord people mendelsohn. He joins us now peter, you heard my interview with Sharon Graham. How does it feel to be in bed, speaking politically, with Sharon Graham . I agree with Sharon Graham. We need more than weve got a headline. Oh peter mandolin agrees with Sharon Graham. A new alliance. I agree that we need more than Policy Tweets and we need more than small twists of the policy dial. Yes, im happy to be bold, but not pulled and stupid. Youre not going to be campaigning for the nationalization of bp . Im going to be campaigning for a Labor Government thats going to invest in Home Insulation or grid Energy Security and efficiency in peoples homes. Im going to be campaigning for a Labor Government thats going to get british workers building electric vehicles. Im going to campaigning for a Labor Government thats going to get steele lakers making green steel, not passing 96 billion pounds worth of public funds to the shareholders in bp and other energy companies. Okay . So now you know what bolden stupid is. Bold, yes. Stupid, no. Lets talk about you and i dont want to spend all my time refereeing you and sharon. But lets talk about you. Weve been talking, discuss sane, are going about politics. I think we discovered 50 years now. We are indeed both of us older than we look. As ever, even somebody who knows you isnt absolutely sure what youre up to. Mystery surrounding. You exactly what role are you plane in the labour partys affairs right now . Are you advising the leader . Im doing anything and everything i can, not my day job. It helped help this team and get labor back with his big majority as we can. Thats what im doing. This in the draft of his speech for tuesday . No. You are not part of the inner circle. Im way out on the fringe somewhere. Youre inviting him to be bold, so is sharon. And not to be doing the same thing. I want you to say what you think boldness means. What they told me this morning that you know, hes already said that the tories have laid waste to the nhs. Hes got this idea about scanners, 50 million. Overtime for staff and so on, do you think that really matches up to the task. Labors telling us weve got to build a massive new flat. I think it does add up, youve got to look at every single part of The Public Financial Budget and see where you can switch spending in order to make a difference. Im talking about the scale of ambition here. In the medium and long term, youve got to do far more. Wheres said about the National Health service is that its not just gotta be up office in these, its gotta be transformed. And in my view, its going to be transformed principally by two things. First of all, making it less of a hospital bed based, cure you and do your best when you got ill to a preventative Primary Health Care focused system that stopped people getting so ill in the first place. Secondly, the use of data which has been generated in huge quantities, and its use and diagnostics and in other areas of health care is going to transform the National Health service in the medium and long term. Thats going to take investment. That has to be built up properly. But creating that direction of travel, for the nhs and other Public Services. Is as important as making in a Media Difference to Public Services by switching spending wherever they can. But you, when you came, in 1997. You had money, there was growth coming. This Labor Government wont have any money because there isnt any money left. And im trying to get from you what you think would represent the scale of change that really would transform the nhs. What other kinds of things would make the leadership, for example, more private sector involvement . He he made it absolutely clear. He it we can pay for it and commandeer private health care in order to meet the needs of nhs patients, soviet. When youve got to take a very pragmatic approach to these things. But trevor, you do put your finger on a very important point compared now with 1997. In 1997, when we were campaigning, with blair and brown, the british economy was growing. What they had to do was put their feet firmly down on the economic accelerator. Compare now, weve basically got to jumpstart, restart the entire economy. Its a completely different kind and scale of economic challenge that were facing now. And surely that demands even more the reason why i am such a strong supporter of what he is saying and doing on the economy is because he recognizes that he knows that the five big Policy Missions that hes set for the labour party in the next david government [inaudible] he knows that in a sense, only a government can create economic and political stability that we need in order to win the confidence of markets, to finance public investment, but also he knows, we have got to transform. Hold on, this is important. Weve got to transform the attractiveness of the british economy and the whole Business Environment in this country in order to win the global race for private investment. Now, thats a big difference between now and when we are coming into office in 1997, in 1997, things were relatively good. Certainly better than they are now when you came in in 1996, you had a lot of what i think what they called cost neutral policies, house of lords reform, 50 of levers there were not big public spending commitments, but transformed institutions in the way things operated. Were not seen any of that from labor at the moment, our way . I dont agree with you. Let me give you a couple of examples. The Planning System in this country and the time it takes to get permission to do anything, to build anything. The business and infrastructure and science or whatever is the biggest single break on our economic growth. And reforming that and overhauling that is a massive and very challenging thing to do. Thats not causeless, but it does not involve vast sums of public money. One last quick question, youre getting married. And of this month. Congratulations. Thank you very. Much what can he say on tuesday that will give you a wedding president . He can continue to do what hes already doing at the moment, and that is to bring the labour party across the line from being weird to been normal again. Which hes done very successfully, and secondly, he can gives country what it needs, its future back with us Big Labour Party majority at the next election. Absolutely on message. Absolutely. In just a moment, on a busy morning and liverpool, were here with our panel once again. Back to our panel now. And mcilroy, jackie smith, and ive just been talking to Peter Mendelsohn about and remember the days at labor party conferences, leaders would stop the halls and everybody would be quaking for their next Sharon Graham has been pretty direct. Do you think Keir Is Dominant will be hearing her voice more loudly than that of people mendelsohns . It was quite a bit of consensus between them, i thought, wasnt there . Maybe i should be a peacemaker. I think thats more of a sign that people are artery serious about getting a Labor Government, seriously. Sharon grandmas are always taken the approach as a union leader on her industries rolled in our political kingmaker role, given the challenges for working people, thats probably the right thing for her to be focusing on. Im quite disconcerted by this whole peace and harmony. Where is the fun . This is not the time for fun, this is the first shot. The first serious shot that labor has that power. And we all, particularly jackie and i, have the scars on our back. If you think getting absolutes match at the ballot box. Many people are thinking it could possibly ten years even more before liberals can petitt of again. I think what is interesting is that before Conference Season kicked, off we had the two you see conference. And what was interesting there is that there wasnt total agreement over everything, but there was a consensus that everybody is going to tow the line to get to kiss tom over the line. And also, Sharon Graham is very different from her predecessor mccloskey, he was much more politically. He wanted to meddle in the Inner Workings of the labour party. Shes actually delivering, giving quite a good job delivering. And yes, the union income is very important to the labour party. That link between here hardy as united the labor movement. But lets not forget the number of private donations coming to labour party as well. The unions Three Billion from lord haynes barry. Hes a very, labor is now getting so much money and coming from business. Its not like they are held to ransom by the union says they mightve been done in the past. I dont want to cause trouble or anything, but i wonder how long this is going to last. Somebody said, the other night, there is my word, i Jurassic Park strategy. If you dont move, trex wont spot you. Can you stop breathing for a whole year . Something has to get done. You would think so, wouldnt you . But at the moment, if you look at the position on industrial relations, i would suggest its still a government thats under more pressure. You saw rishi sunak began in, he was particularly talking about doctors in the nhs and saying we are not going to go any further than we have gone. I think for labor, its probably drastic maybe in a position that theres a difference between jurassic between putting your head in the sand. I think what will happen between the unions, and it is interesting that Sharon Graham is here prominently as a lot of people say. Shes engaged very much at all, because it was the case that there were some Union Leaders who would like to be around in the labor world, and others who really keep arm length and really suggest that this labour party was not to her taste. That i think is closing in order to get keir starmer elected. I think it strikes industrial relations there will be pressure on labor. But right, now i would say it is going more towards the tories. And that may be why were all going drastic here. Aisha, Peter Mendelsohn demonstrated a very old School Message discipline. I know, this is a master class in keeping the line. He did the job. But labor can talk to itself and love each other and all the things, but its got to get votes from outside there. And one of the things going back to 1997 that i think everybody would acknowledge. If there was some sense of anticipation, some kind of excitement. In his book, he says 1997 was a moment where labor got thrilled by labor. Lets get the future back. Are you feeling a tingle . A crackle in the air. Look, i dont think conference slogan is the thing thats going to massively move the needle on this. What is really clear though is that i think for me, the most interesting thing that Peter Mendelsohn said was bold, but not stupid. We all know the metaphor about the highly polished folks. This time its an ice rink within one ice gate on. This takes a very very high. Is a former strategist and paro the time is going to come as we approach the Short Campaign where there is going to be a bit more encouragement. I think the thing that im struck by, is this is going to be a change election, labor does need to set out what that change is going to be. Jacqui, i dont know a lot about slogans, but you will remember the great slogan forward, not back. We see what do you have to do to get people excited and love . It once more, of course, i was elected in 1997. I do remember a Conference Call with Peter Mendelsohn where he was running late and we listen to things can only get better on a loop for half an hour. To deliver us the message which always was when people are bored, the public are just getting it. Aisha is exactly right. There needs to be a bit more of a retail offer, but there needs to be a sensible approach to government. And thats what weve been seeing this morning and this week. Thank you all. Thats it for this morning. Join us next week for Sunday Morning with trevor phillips. Next week, the snp are in aberdeen. Theyll be licking there wounds after its still a force to be reckoned with. Stay with us. Good morning. This is sky news live from jerusalem, where benjamin then yahoo says his