team trump to delay and dismiss multiple cases. and the race for the gavel in washington. the house still without a leader, and a potential visitor that could push the chaos even. further than, the power of young voices and speaking out. two activists when you live to discuss the importance of participating in our democracy at any age. the 11th hour, just getting underway on this thursday night. good evening. once again i'm stephanie ruhle, live at msnbc headquarters, here in new york city. we begin this evening with new reporting about former president trump and the way he dealt with sensitive information shortly after he left office. the new york times has new reporting that trump share apparently classified information about american nuclear submarines with an australian businessman who happened to be at my mar-a-lago. that's according to people familiar with the matter. it comes after the former president's legal team asked the judge in a classified documents case to postpone that trial until after the election. trump's lawyers are scrambling to delay or throw out completely at least three other cases against him. if legal team is filed motions to dismiss the new york hush money case and the washington d.c. election interference case. the cover page for the d.c. motion says the former president is arguing for presidential immunity. but for facts sake, and at this point a night to get $1 every time i see that, i would be really rich. presidents of the united states do not get immunity for trying to overturn an election. trump's lawyers know. that you know who else does? mitch mcconnell. he basically said so after trump's second impeachment. watch this. >> president trump is still liable for everything he did while he was in office. as an ordinary citizen. unless the statute of limitations is run, still liable for everything he did while he was in office. didn't get away with anything, yet. yet. we have a criminal justice system in this country. we have civil litigation. and former presidents are not immune from being accountable by either one. >> meanwhile, it was day four of donald trump's new york civil fraud trial, the trump organization executive testified under oath in the donald trump himself had the final sign off on financial documents, one statement in evidence included a handwritten note that said, quote, the j t to get final review. that is donald john trump. trump's legal team is expected to file for a stay pending appeal in that case tomorrow morning. and finally, the judge in georgia's rico case has declined to dismiss the charges against sydney powell. this is d.a. fani willis is seeking the testimony for six out of state witnesses in the upcoming trial of powell and ganges bro. >> you know, every time we think about this, case i always think about how big and sprawling it is and what it means here. i think there are good aspects and bad cases aspects, as everything including out of state conduct is described everyone. two months especially even these witnesses who will talk about arizona and pennsylvania as well as georgia, she wants that. >> did you follow all that? in short, he is trying to throw a delay or cancel everything against him and the d.a.'s are basically just saying, i'd like more witnesses, and more witnesses, and more witnesses. and their judges haven't given him anything that he wants, yet, and without let's get smarter with our lead off panel, can baker here, chief white house correspondent for the new york times, luke broadwater, pulitzer prize-winning congressional reporter, also the time, and former new york prosecutor and civil rights attorney charles coleman, joins me here at 30 rock. peter, i turn to you first, because it's a rare paper at the new york times, with this new reporting on trump sharing apparently classified information about nuclear submarines. tell us what we need to know. >> right, that's exactly. right so anthony plaza, australian businessman who joined mar-a-lago, i think in 2017, cultivated president trump like a lot of people did in that area that join mar-a-lago in the reporting we have, my colleagues, have is that at some point soon after he left, soon after president trump left office, then former president trump of course, shared some information, we don't exactly what, about with this australian businessman and he is listed among 80 different possible witnesses, we are told, the jack smith, special counsel could call as part of his classified documents case. these are not necessarily really directly to the documents that he took but it would show an inclination on the part of the former president to feel cavalierly with the nations secrets and i don't know if he will be called in trial but i think it's though it goes to a pattern of conduct by donald trump even after he left office. >> charles, the times is also reporting that jack smith's team learned about trump sharing the secrets. as a gun impact when he's? doing >> right now i don't think it's gonna have a major impact. the reason for that is, speaking as a former prosecutor, what you're talking about here is one, person if the reporting is what we know it to be right now, who overheard or had a conversation with donald trump where he allegedly said something to him about nuclear secrets, and the problem with that is that it's not necessarily a tremendously strong case without any other physical evidence. remember, donald trump also was allegedly waving around confidential information in front of pentagon officials as well as other reporters, and jack smith doesn't do anything about that. from a legal perspective, unless he's going to charge him with relaying confidential secrets that's the only charge that i could even see this being admissible, most of everything that we are hearing wouldn't even be admissible because of hearsay and the hearsay rule and how trial evidence works and so you have a narrow lane with respect to the charge that can be brought, which is relaying, and even to establish that you only have one witness and i don't necessarily mean absent any other tangible or physical evidence jack smith is gonna go forward. >> take us to the hill, look. with all the chaos unfolding in congress right now, is donald trump going to get the big public defense he normally gets from congressional republicans, or do they have other business to attend to? >> yeah, they are mired in their own eternal chaos and fighting right now. that said, i am sure that they will rush to defend donald trump at any turning if asked, and if pressed to do so. in other cases, where prosecutors have taken actions against donald trump, jim jordan, judiciary chair sent letters to those prosecutors has, demanded documents. and he has done the same with merrick garland, with jack smith, you can see him potentially taking some more actions against in the future, trying to intervene on behalf of donald trump, when he's got his own matter at hand, with the speaker himself. >> it also gets harder and harder to make that argument, well, donald trump is really just sentimental, he likes to keep these things for mementos, he's not. if you follow the last 77 years of his, life he is a transactional guy. and when you find something of value he holds on to it and tries to extract that value and a later date. that is his jam. his other jam, charles, is running the clock. that is his go to. and he is successfully doing so. >> he is. >> but now he is moving to delay or dismiss for cases against him, i mean four cases, are you kidding me? >> no. and i said early on, we are going to get, and we are getting when i predicted, which was an up close front row of view of how the legal system can work, and regional exhaust every legal move or removed or they can to slow things down. with respect to the civil trial in new york, the timing of this new motion is an interesting one, primarily because you're in the middle of a trial in it's not unusual for someone who loses summary judgment to appeal that judgment. i understand that the defense team was looking to do, some of the argument that they're likely going to make is the bike carrying this out, by canceling business licenses by granting the relief that the court ordered is part of the summary judgment decision, these things are irreversible or doing irreparable harm with extreme prejudice to donald trump. but secretly what they would like to do is delay the trial. that's also going to be the subtext to what the motion says, and to anticipate they will file tomorrow. i don't believe this is going to be successful, but, again, it's an interesting maneuver, and we're going to continue to see different maneuvers and motions to dismiss as we go along, for any reason or for any little thing, unless or until the attorneys who are following these motions begin to get sanctioned more and more by the judges who they're filing in front. of >> let's talk about a different maneuver, peter, because donald trump has been trying to rely on presidential immunity. he's been saying it for years. it is not going to fly in court and he knows that. is he doing it for the court of public opinion? because the average person might think, yeah, maybe a president allowed to do that because in many instances presidents have different rules than you and me. >> yeah. look, charles would know this, pedal better i think the legal term is throw these beget against the wall, or throw everything a every possible, sand in the gears we possibly can, every possible motion you can think, of disqualify the judge, delay the trial, find some way to move from one core to another, find a different venue, this missed it on the basis of -- anything they can argue they're gonna try to argue, in part because it does delay the ultimate reckoning. but there is a question here that hasn't really been fully answered by the courts, which is, what is the extent of presidential immunity? the justice department has said a couple of different men memos, one during the clinton administration, when they're in office presidents cannot be charged with a crime. they do not proposed to say that they can be charged with a crime after they leave office. but there's obviously an understanding, at least on a civil society, you can't sue a president for their official actions. what he's trying to say here is the trying to overturn an election he lost, and that he had been told that he had lost, and hold on to power, even though he had lost, constitutes an official action, and that's a really different way of looking at things so we'll see what the courts say about it. i'm not a legal expert, but it does begin to draw lines that will be important, even beyond donald trump, to say what are the rules when it comes to a president and former trans president, where can they be held accountable, and where do they have, in fact, some sort of immunity from prosecution or civil liability? >> all right, charles, let's go back town to day four of donald trump's civil fraud trial. how bad was it for him that there's a handwritten note on a financial document that says let's get final sign off from donald john trump, jt. how can you possibly claim ignorance when they're all going, we have to talk to the boss? a company with, what, 20 people? this wasn't a giant corporation. the says he has to get final say. >> on a scale of manageable to not that bad, it's terrible. i say that because it undercuts the entire legal theory that his defense team has been trying to advance. >> he didn't know, the accountants did it! >> the notion of ignorance, particularly because you're in front of a of judge, this is a bench trial. we're not talking about jurors who can in some cases been manipulated by a lawyer who they like, the flash -- >> should've known better. >> they're not familiar with these. things you're talking to a judge and the judge is going to not employee the law but also common sense. when you're talking about what this note says in the fact that it required on trump's approval, he no longer has the ground to say i didn't know what was going on in plead ignorance, even though that is not a real viable defense under the law. >> luke, the republican front runner is a defendant in multiple cases. republicans in congress are tearing themselves apart and have no speaker. the staffers you talked to every day on the hill, what's the vibe right now? >> really, depressed. people are beside themselves. a band of a few far-right republicans cause compete chaos in the house. they think their party looks like it can't govern. moderate voters are going to leave them in droves, and meanwhile the party is talking about putting donald trump in a speaker and changing the rules so they can allow people charged with felonies to become speaker and all kinds of crazy things. so yeah, there's a lot of the staffers really depressed right now. they feel like the party has gone off the tracks. they're trying to get it back on track. it's very tough time for a lot of the staffers on the hill, that's for sure. >> all right, peter, new topic. recentlling finds the democrats handling of immigrationis at an all-time low. but here's the thing. immigration and what is happening border as been a problem for a long long time. is this just a situation where congress does nothing, so whatever president is in the oval office is going to get blamed for what's happening at the border? >> well, look, you're right, it has been a problem for a long time and it has been leveled multiple presidents going back years and years. it does seem that there are numbers coming out of the border right now that are particularly bad and the look particularly bad for president biden. he saw him today doing something that none of us might have expected just a little while ago, which is to say we're gonna continue to build some of the wall that president trp nts to build. he says he doesn't want to do, that he doesn't think it's effective, because congress appropriated the money and because it wouldn't redirect the money that he has no choices president but to continue to build a wall, but that's gonna raise all sorts of questions and all sorts of conversations. we already hear republicans saying biden is admitting he should build a wall, which is not what he is saying, but in the end he's gonna end up accomplishing some of what president trump tried to do in office but couldn't, which is to actually extend the barriers on the border that had been basically halted or suspended or stalled under the former president. that's kind of an irony or paradox that nobody might have expected a few weeks ago. >> but look, on what grounds can republicans in congress attack president biden for what is happening at the border? they are doing nothing. congress has done nothing on comprehensive immigration reform for years and years. and they are the actual lawmakers. so how can they honestly put all of the blame on the president when they've got to look in the mirror and say, yo, what have i done? >> congress has been at a complete standstill on trying to get real immigration bill. we have seen partisan bills come out of the house, which have no chance of passing the senate, and the senate has nothing moving at all. and there has really been no serious discussions at all between republican and democrats and how to fix the problems of immigration, no real negotiations or compromise. really a lot of compromising and messaging bills. so you raise a good point, which is, if you haven't had a series attempt between the two parties in congress to fix the problems of immigration, then how can you criticize the administration? >> just saying. peter baker, luke broadwater, charles coleman, thank you all for starting us off this. evening i want to give you a quick update from the state of florida where democratic congressman jared moskowitz has a very simple answer to donald trump's claims about the value of his mar-a-lago club in palm beach. moskowitz sent a letteto the county property appraiser, pointing out of the county value the property between 18 and 28 million bucks, which is a whole lot different than donald trump's claim that it is worth well over a billion dollars. so the congressman's official reques to the county, shouldn't we hikers taxes to reflect what donald trump swears mar-a-lago is worth? it's a very good question by the congressman. we can't wait to hear the response. when we come back, donald trump is looming large. the speaker battle on the hill, jason johnson and mark mckinnon are here to break down who could replace mccarthy and how long the chaos can last. and later, you must be out for this. talk about inspiration, the power of youth. we want our two young leaders about the power of stepping up and speaking out in the massive difference that they are making. the 11th hour, just getting underway on a thursday night. if you are your teenagers playing video game, make sure they watch this instead. watch this instead. skyrizi. ♪ things are looking up ♪ ♪ i've got symptom relief ♪ ♪ control of my crohn's means everything to me. ♪ ♪ ♪ control is everything to me. ♪ feel significant symptom relief with skyrizi, including less abdominal pain and fewer bowel movements at 4 weeks. skyrizi is the first and only il-23 inhibitor for crohn's that can deliver both clinical remission and endoscopic improvement. the majority of people on skyrizi achieved long lasting remission at 1 year. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine or plan to. liver problems may occur in crohn's disease. ask your gastroenterologist how you can take control of your crohn's with skyrizi. ♪ ♪ control is everything to me. ♪ learn how abbvie could help you save. here's why you should switch from chrome to duckduckgo. duckduckgo is a browser you download to your mobile and desktop devices. unlike chrome, the duckduckgo browser has privacy built-in. it comes with a private alternative to google search, which doesn■t spy on your searches, and it blocks cookies and creepy ads. and there's no catch. it's free. we make money from ads, but they don't follow you around. >> we are starting to see some join the millions of people taking back their privacy by downloading duckduckgo on mobile and desktop today. serious battle lines drawn in the race to become the next house speaker. so far to republicans have thrown their hats in the ring. jim jordan and ski steve scalise. today jordan said he has talked to donald trump about his bid for speaker and he would not try to expel matt gaetz. and just about an hour ago, congresswoman trying nails said he plans to endorse jordan for speaker. speaking of trump, he sources also say that trump himself is considering visiting the capitol next week as a process to pick a new speaker begins, with the goal to unify republicans. back with me tonight, jason johnson politics and journalism professor morgan state university and mark mckinnon, former adviser to george w. bush and john mccain, one of the co-hosts of the circus on showtime, which as its season premiere sunday night. you better be harm. mark, is jordan trying to position himself as the most maga candidate for speaker, and if so, is that the right move, given how thin the margins are for republicans? >> well, he is the most maga candidate by far. even before the freedom caucus described him as a bomb thrower. is that really where the republican caucus needs at this point to interact sort of votes they need and to have any sort of republican success? and in the question is not just two but what. what are gonna be the terms of any speaker, and the problem we know from kevin mccarthy's tenure is that they introduced a motion to vacate. it's like chekhov's gun. if you show a gun in the first act, they're gonna use it before the play is over. and they used. they shot mccarthy. so i talked to ken, back is one of the republicans who deposed mccarthy is a member of the freedom caucus. i doubt him last night. he said really right now it comes down to scalise and jordan. but he says that scalise had problems because kevin mccarthy doesn't like scalise. so mccarthy's going to whip his people against police, and jordan's got his own problems. so if those guys have two problems going in, is it appears that they do, they had more problems than kevin mccarthy had going, in and we know mccarthy took 15 votes to get there. so i think we're looking at a long train wreck ahead. >> but jason, mark is forgetting that the great unifier may be making his way to capitol hill during this process next week. donald trump. who is that going to benefit? >> they're the presidents gonna benefit is the democrats. i am sorry, but in a functional democracy the guy who was responsible for an attempted violent coup should never be confident enough to return to the scene of the crime. it's kind of ridiculous the donald trump is walking free at all. but the fact that he would feel comfortable to come back to washington d.c. with just two years ago he led a mob of people to try to murder almost everybody in that room, it's galling to me. >> but jason, but by that measure, it would be absurd for someone who did that to be running for president of the united states, and that's exactly what he's doing. >> yes. that's the larger problem. if we had a more swift and more aggressive justice system, he wouldn't be in a position to do that. that's the larger problem that we have here. it's flaunting the law and flaunting how he really attacked the sovereignty of this nation. so that being said, it would be great for democrats to point that out, it's not gonna do anything for the republican party. they have a choice between two terrible candidates. jim jordan, quite frankly considered a cook even among conservatives. also not very good at raising money. and whoever becomes the speaker, at this point, is gonna be responsible for raising money and protecting republicans who are trying to protect their seats in 2024. so i would say steve scalise, but he has health issues. scalise has problems with his own personality. scalise has his own bad background. so you don't have particular good choices. if i was forced, i would simply say, look, i would just vote for hakeem jeffries. and the one hand you have jim jordan who tried to help with the coup, and someone else who doesn't seem competent for the job. >> i can't stop laughing, jason. he has problems with his own personality. that's stephanie ruhle, she has problems with own personality. and all seriousness, though, mark, do you see any solution here? do you see there he keem jeffries 80, utterly dant raised at the other night, power sharing, not jeffrey specifically, but do you see any solution? >> i think it would be a long way to get to something remotely like that. but the problem that is pretty clear here is that you have 18 republicans who were elected in biden districts. so you've got to have their votes. if you have trump dancing in their, they're not going to want to endorse anyone that trump is endorsing. and they're not likely to be supporting jim jordan. scalise has the problems that we indicated. you could see how this could unfold, with many chapters. interesting fever dreams. i like the lease cheney fever dream where she got enough republicans or democrats about her, but how about cheney for speaker. >> i'm down with that. i want to highlight part of a political report and the relationship between kevin mccarthy and the biden white house, where political says, quote, mccarthy marked biden's age and mental acuity in public or privately telling allies that he found the president sharp in substantive in their conversations. that is a stark contradiction that left a deep impression on the white house. what does this tell you about kevin mccarthy and the current state of things in washington, jason? >> this is why he was terrible at his job. i wasn't a fan of john boehner, but one thing that john boehner talked about a lot after you left office as speaker, he will go back to his own caucus and say hey guys, i don't agree with them at all, but obama's mana bad guy. i can argue and debate with him. and boehner was really strong enough to argue with people that like hey we're not dealing with an idiot here. mccarthy couldn't be trusted by anybody. he was a weasel. he was the worst person to have a new telephone game, because you ask for a sandwich and he says you asked for crackle cain. you couldn't trust the man, within his party, within negotiations, and that's why he doesn't have his job. that's why the republicans in general are in trouble, because they don't have anybody. they have people who are qanon people like jim jordan, or you have spines people like mccarthy, who don't know how to make real commitments and negotiate. and if you can't come up with a functional leader, you can't operate as a political organization or even a diamond store front for a terrorist organization, which i said the gop has done for years. >> crazy makes noise, it makes headlines, and functional moxie is what we need. do people realize and appreciate that. mark mckinnon, jason johnson, don't forget to watch mark zona. unite our country's youth is watching. they may not be old enough to vote now, but guess what? these kids are growing up in some might even become young leaders. we're gonna hear from two who are doing extraordinary things, when the 11th hour continues. 1he1th hour continues and i am 41 years old. i've been given the opportunity to work from home, so that means lots of video calls. i see myself more and i definitely see those deeper lines. i'm still kim and i got botox® cosmetic. i wanted to keep the expressions that i would normally have, you know, you're on camera and the only person they can look at is you. i was really happy with the results. i look like me just with fewer lines. botox® cosmetic is fda approved to temporarily make frown lines, crow's feet, and forehead lines look better. the effects of botox® cosmetic may spread hours to weeks after injection, causing serious symptoms. alert your doctor right away as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems, or muscle weakness may be a sign of a life-threatening condition. do not receive botox® cosmetic if you have a skin infection. side effects may include allergic reactions, injection site pain, headache, eyebrow, eyelid drooping and eyelid swelling. tell your doctor about your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions, and medications, including botulinum toxins, as these may increase the risk of serious side effects. see for yourself at botoxcosmetic.com. he hits his mark —center stage—and is crushed by a baby grand piano. you're replacing me? 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(fisher investments) no. we structure our fees so we do better when clients do better. that might be why most of our clients come from other money managers. at fisher investments, we're clearly different. the >> republicans in this committee in the others in the house and senate don't care about democracy. they don't care about fair matt's. they don't the only care about three simple things, reelection, power, and dollar signs. this redistricting stunt is a clear power grab by republicans in the general assembly, soil to now, watch your step. be very careful on what you choose to do, because young people like me are watching, and young people like me are fed up. >> what you are step. right now, i hope that parents of teenagers or teenagers are watching, because that right there was 17 year old eric will be. he's not old enough to cast a ballot, but he had that warning for ected officials in his state, young people are watching and not just in north carolina where the republican controlled legislature is still the process of drawing a new congressional maps. young activists often go up to be young leaders. you might remember this viral moment from 2011, when the 19-year-old zack walz stood up to defend families like his own legislation that was targeting them. >> we're not so different from any of your children. my family really isn't so different from yours. after all, your family doesn't derive its sense of worth from being told by the state, you're married, congratulations. or the next two hours i'm sure we're gonna hear plenty of testimony about how damaging having gay parents is on kids. but my 19 years not once have i ever been confronted by an individual who realized independently that i was raised by a gay couple. and you know why? because the sexual orientation of my parents has had zero effect on the content of my character. thank you very much. >> that legislation did pass in the iowa house, but was blocked in the senate and, same sex marriage stayed legal in the state. as for zach walsh, he went on to serve in the iowa state senate. both of these remarkable young men join us now. eric, you amaze me. you are a senior in high school. what made you decide to address the general assembly? i mean, it's fog, time for friday night lights and pepper rallies. >> that's right. and you know, that's exactly what i told the general assembly. i should be with my friends. i shouldn't have to be here and defend my generations writes with for a ballot affair representation. but why was i there? i was there to prove the young people like me, we are listening i mean we don't always hear it all the time but we are listening and we are angry and we are fed up. >> zach, talk to us about how you went from being just a young man but who chose to stand up publicly to defend your family who is basically under attack and then moving to full activism and full office where you are right now. >> well, stephanie, i really appreciate the opportunity to be with you and eric, acuña congratulations, thank you for standing up and delivering such an impassioned speech. the thing i would say to you is that you have this incredible opportunity to take this moment and turn it into something much bigger. that's what those of us who had that opportunity, stephanie, i would say, have the responsibility to do. my generation, the generation of people like eric, we are incredibly frustrated, and it's exciting lead to see young activists take the lead on issues like partisan gerrymandering, climate change, for lgbtq people who are always been targeted. what eric speech shows is defending democracy is not an insider in the weeds issue. it's easy to see the voters don't really care about democracy issues, but i think eric's speech shows that it connects with a lot of people, especially young people. >> but a lot of people don't think about partisan gerrymandering until it's too late. eric, i said, it you're only 17 years old. are you an outlier among your friends and classmates, or are they engaged as well? >> when it comes to issues like redistricting, i'm very aware, because it's a very non sexy issue. it's a very nerdy thing that i happen to be interested in. but young people are really interested in areas like reproductive rights, voting rights, things like that, that they care about because they know it affects their duty today. when you're able to relate those issues to something like me district sting, it affects all those issues, it has an impact. >> zach, people constantly saying have broke and divided the country. is congress's chaos, not functioning. but when you think about your own path over the last ten years, when you look at eric, a 17 year old, speaking up for what he believes in, how energized and inspire do you feel about the power of our country, about the power of democracy? >> i think it makes me really excited and i think if i had to think of a through line from eric's speech in mine, it's about the importance of speaking truth to power and how that resonates with people who are watching in this meeting. i think that all across the country there is this understanding that we are going through something that is really challenging for our country right now, whether it's the rise of authoritarianism within the republican party, attempts by that party, like they are in north carolina, which by rigging elections, we know that there are incredible challenges in front of us. it brings me a lot of excitement and inspiration to see people like eric in north carolina stepping up, here in iowa we saw teenaged in high school students organize walkouts against bans an lgbt books here in our state. and so it has been inspiring for me to see young people stepping up. i would still consider myself a young person by political standards. it's really important for our generation to get involved, whether it's joining a local organization, running for office with the good folks that run for something, or just finding a candidate who you really believe in and going to work for them. we cannot make a difference if we do our part. >> eric, your remarks, obviously, went viral. that's how we found you. their inspirational. but what happened after he spoke? what's going on down there? >> a lot of great people reached out. a lot of great people were able to elevate the platform to spread this issue even more. i'm very grateful for those opportunities because this can't just be a 15 seconds of fame. this has to be something that keeps on going. >> so what are you doing next? >> well, i think my family and people and i are going to deliver republicans a message in 2024. that message is that my generation, generation see, it's gonna be the generation the right to the history books. and if you just -- right now today to push us to the margins of our political systems, to the sidelines of our government, we're gonna be the ones to read you into the margins of history. if you decide now that we are not mature enough, to lead, we will be the ones to decide that you will not be the ones to represent our great country. >> down, eric, you're not even gonna have to write a college application. they're just going to be sending a car for. you zak, what message do you have for young people today? >> i think the most important thing is not to lose hope. they want you to feel more worn down, they want you to feel dispirited, like there's nothing you can do, but just look at eric. look at the speech that he gave. like the difference that he's making in north carolina. look at the inspiration that he's given to so many people. one voice -- and that's what erik is doing in north carolina, and that's what any person can do who wants to stand up and be heard. >> eric willoughby, zach wahls, they get so much. after this, something that drives you bananas, influencers, you see them everywhere. but are they starting to lose their influence now that they are catching in? we'll get into it when the 11th hour continues. hour continues [car doo r slam] [camera shutter sfx] introducing ned's plaque psoriasis. 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[ting] ♪♪ live in the moment. ask your doctor about otezla. if we want a more viable future for our kids, we need to find more sustainable ways of doing things. america's plastic makers are investing billions of dollars in new technologies and creating plastic products that are more recyclable. durable. and dependable. our goal is a cleaner, healthier planet for generations to come. for a better tomorrow, we're focused on making plastics better today. when migraine strikes you're faced with a choice. ride it out with the tradeoffs of treating? or push through the pain and symptoms? with ubrelvy, there's another option. one dose works fast to eliminate migraine pain treat it anytime, anywhere. without worrying where you are or if it's too late. do not take with strong cyp3a4 inhibitors. allergic reactions to ubrelvy can happen. most common side effects were nausea and sleepiness. migraine pain relief starts with u. ask about ubrelvy. learn how abbvie could help you save. >> if you're on social media at all today, and i know you are, chances are you probably schooled by an influencer. now what started out as a way to grow personal brands from hogue has now because of a multi billion dollar global industry. but now that those influencers are cashing in on the billions, the question is, have they sold away their authenticity, maybe even lost their influence? with me now to discuss, hey lauren,'s washington post technology con columnist and author of extremely online, the untold story of the influence and power on the internet. it is out this week. can we just talk through this because social media influencers killed traditional advertising. we no longer were flipping through a magazine looking at a model claiming that she loved this blender. now actually chefs are in their kitchens saying man, we love this great stuff, this is what i use. fast forward, now they get paid so much money they are just pushing product all day long. are people go to eventually catch on to this into them out? >> not even remotely, unfortunately. actually goldman sachs just came out with a report saying that the influencer industry is skyrocketing. over half a trillion dollar industry by 2027. >> okay, but lot of these influencers are pushing products that they might not even use. your own paper has a report out that the food industry is paying influencer dietitians and they are not even saying that they are paid posts. aren't the rules about that? >> unfortunately, i actually wrote about this in my book, ftc has failed about this to crack down. they don't have a handle on the problem. when they try to crack down in 2017 they ended up making sponsor content aspirational. now you see spate fake sponsor content, which people pretending they have brand deals with luxury brands are aspirational brands because it's seen as a status symbol to have a brand-new deal. >> and if they do that maybe another brand will want to catch on? >> exactly. >> this is gross. it's all of this going to be a race for all humans to get sponsored? >> the big trend is watching your own products. more interest influencers are not interested in doing and deals because why would you have ad deals when you've developed a product you can sell to your audience yourself? chamberlain cough, really developing their own product lines, and they're becoming huge businesses. >> the real housewives. it's what all of them have done. if it looks good, and i have my own product. but >> a lot of these influencers are kids. are there no regulations around them? >> absolutely not. villanova illinois passed the first legislation to protect child employers, but it's an enforceable because the state legislation. the u.s. government has not been tracking this. it's a huge new type of work that's been a merging in the past 15, years and statistics it's not even tracking them. we don't even have a handle on it. >> so none of this is slowing down. this is the tip of the iceberg. >> we are at the beginning of this radical shift in media and it has been happening for the last 25 years, which my book reports on, but it's definitely not slowing down. >> at some point, though, how does everyone become an influencer? how does everyone become a brand? there's not very many brands to care about? >> definitely not everyone's gonna have to become an influencer, but we're all connected more and more these days. we all have a public profile. we're living on the internet, whether or not we put ourselves there. i can google anyone, especially kids. you have an online reputation. you're known for things. it's increasingly, i mean, kids are increasingly able to cash. and look at what's happening with college sports. >> i want to know why you wrote this book, and in your opinion, what's the most important takeaway? >> i want to write a book that told the rise of social media through the user side. we've seen a social network version of social media. lot of focus on big tech founders, great for that side, but we've got the user side, and again, it's half a trillion dollar industry that is completely unregulated, with no oversight. it's wild. it's mostly a child labor industry. and no one had really talked about the rise of that industry and how it emerged, and kind of lead that charge. >> what's your biggest fear? or you have none? you think this is a beautiful wide west? >> pretty dystopian. as we talk about my book, we are all pressured to come out of fire selves, our lives in our relationships in increasingly invasive ways. i think it's dark. there's a lot of laboratory aspect. i have my whole career, because i get popular online, like a popular on the internet and i'm in media. and i wrote a. book it could be amazing for people and it can also be dark. there is huge mental health implications for content makers because they're always online. >> all these influencers, trusting what they have, what they use. now they're just pushing product. come on now. taylor lorenz, congratulations on your book, glad to be you. when we come back, you have to see this story. if you're feeling tired, i need to stay out for another five minutes, because this woman ditched her walker, literally, to jump out of a plane, and she just broke the record books. if this woman isn't gonna make you get a better tomorrow, nothing else we'll. stick around. the 11th hour isn't open yet. th hour isn't open yet ( ♪ ♪ ) start your day with nature made. the #1 pharmacist recommended vitamin and supplement brand. >> the last thing before we go tonight, it just sounded like fun. that is what dorothy haffner thought about the idea of going skydiver. but dorothy, here's something might i guess, she's 104 years old. a return is coming up in december. that means this sky dive might make her the new guinness world record holder for the oldest person to sky dive. this was a 13,500 foot tandem leap just outside chicago, illinois, and dorothy said she had an absolute blast. >> about five feet from the plane and a big gust of wind, and it was a piece of wind. it turned us over. if you did a somersault. i thought that was so much fun. when you feel good, you can do these things. sometimes you have a little fear or scare of doing it, but if you feel good, do it. >> my god, i love this woman. dorothy told the maritime she was not nervous at all ahead no idea about the guinness world record. she of course, no surprise, was met with a massive round of applause when she landed, which, she did actually understand. >> it was wonderful. i enjoyed it. i couldn't understand why those people were there. but, as i say, all i did was get old. older. i'm not old, i'm older. >> older, wiser, and more fabulous every day. we want to send our congratulations to dear dorothy. she's back in her chicago retirement home and says she hopes to take it easy next summer, with maybe a hot air balloon ride. and on that note, i hope you all feel a little inspire tomorrow, and have a good night tonight. from all of our colleagues across the networks of nbc news, thanks for staying up late with me. i'll see you at the end of tomorrow. tomorrow the >> republican party has two problems, a party descending

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