Transcripts For MSNBCW Ana 20240703

Speaker Kevin Mccarthy. The chaos on capitol hill following the republican rebellion including what led to mccarthys historic downfall. Ill talk to lawmakers from both sides of the aisle including a republican who voted mccarthy out. Well try to answer the question ricochetting around washington, who will take mccarthys place. Ahead this hour, donald trump back in the manhattan courthouse for a third day while a new gag order changed his very public facing approach in his Civil Fraud Trial . This morning the peoples house is in a state of cays you. Its work ground to a Screeching Halt with no House Speaker and a mad scramble, who will pick up the speakers gavel following the historic ouster of republican Kevin Mccarthy. He is the first House Speaker to be ousted ever in a rebellion orchestrated by members of his own party. Eight republicans voting for mccarthys removal in a revolt led by Florida Fire Brand matt gaetz. You all know matt gaetz. You know it was personal. It had nothing to do about spending. Nancy mace is a whole other story. Lets just be honest here, i cant say this in the press here, but okay. So no, youll keep it among yourselves, right . Wait until my book. So now republican patrick mchenry, who appeared visibly angry on the floor last night is the Acting Speakith only lited powers. A vote to pick mccarthys successor, everybody on capitol hill is wondering who will it be. Joining us is garrett haake, ashley etienne, and former republican representative charlie dent of pennsylvania. So garrett, lets start there on the hill. I imagine capitol hill is in a bit of shock today. What happens next, and what happens to mccarthy . Reporter yeah, it feels like theres a little bit of a political hangover around capitol hill this morning after what we all experienced yesterday. As for mccarthy some of his future is in his hands in the limited similar historical experience here of speakers who have been forced out of the job through one manner or another. Few of them have stayed on as members of congress. He was a little bit coy last night about whether he would continue to serve in this body at all. But the immediate business of House Republicans and then eventually the full house will be picking the new speaker. Really nothing else can happen until thats done. If youre lookingt the republican conference, you start at the Leadership Team at the top. Steve scalise is thrent number two. Hes probably the odds on favorite if he chooses to pursue it. Tom emmer also has some structure around him if he wants to go for it. Hes been sort of backing up scalise at least publicly. The other name ive heard discussed is jim jordan, whos the chairman of the Judiciary Committee, also heavily involved in the oversight. Popular on the far right. All of these members are going to have the same math problem that Kevin Mccarthy did finding a way to 218 votes mollifying the more Institutionalist Members who are upset about the way mccarthy was treated and winning over some of those harder right folks who were ready to throw mccarthy out and are probably just as ready to throw out the next speaker depending on how he or she behaves in that job. No speaker, no votes, no clear path forward. Whats your reaction to the level of dysfunction were seeing in your party right now . Well, theyve taken the fun out of dysfunction, thats all i can say. This is not unexpected. I thought in many ways that this outcome was inevitable given what Kevin Mccarthy had to do to become speaker. He made so many concessions. He appeased these guys on the motion to vacate, just one member could bring the motion, putting some of these rabblerousers on the rules committee, which is very big deal, on the appropriations committee, then walking away from a Budget Agreement that he had negotiated to accommodate the hardliners, to the Impeachment Inquiry, which he was that was a sop to the hardliners. None of it mattered. They still took him down. He was always trying to make deals but he was really making nobody happy. The problem was he was making deals with the wrong people. He should have been cutting deals with the democrats all along and just tried to marginalize that hard line nihilist faction. Its not a very big group thats trying to dictate outcomes all of the time for a majority that want something different. I think that was his fundamental error by trying to accommodate, you know, this just chose that appeasement really doesnt work and he learned the hard way. And so ashley, were Learning Republicans have now kicked out nancy pelosi and rep steny hoyer from their work spaces on capitol hill. Its unclear if this decision was made by mccarthy before he was ousted or the new speaker pro tem but what do you make of republicans now blaming democrats for this . Its actually petty, and its small, especially in the face of all the other challenges were dealing with as a nation which our elected leadership be focused on. Heres the thing that i think is sad about this is mccarthy we knew this was inevitable, but he made a couple of key mistakes that i think, what warmed my heart this week is republicans complimenting how effective Speaker Pelosi is. Heres a couple of things that i saw when i worked for her that mccarthy made some key mistakes on. One, he leveraged away his all of his he negotiated away all of his leverage on the front end, right . We noticed that from the beginning. The second thing is that he gave the extremist Impeachment Inquiry with no guarantees that they would vote to keep the government open and no guarantees that they would not move to vacate the seat. The third thing is he did not leverage those moderate republican members, those 10 to 15 to 18 members that are in bidens seats that actually their jobs are on the line. He did not leverage them to push back on the extremists. Thats what pelosi used to do so effectively well, so rather than trying to take her out of her office, they should be taking notes from Speaker Pelosi, especially whos up next. Yeah, ill note nancy pelosi was speaker of the house with the exact same margins as Kevin Mccarthy for at least part of her tenure, and she ended up serving for close to 3,000 days as speaker, Kevin Mccarthy ended up serving for less than 300. Congressman, what are you hearing . Go ahead. She actually won the house twice, right . The most important thing is keeping and winning the house, right . And all of these antics to your point creates an opportunity for democrats to really brand the Republican Congress as in total disarray, total dysfunction and really more focused on and obsessed with retribution than they are with the issues americans are facing. They need to go into the district and make that case. Whats going to happen now, they have to let off some steam. Theyre going to try to elect a speaker. I dont know if theyre going to be able to do this by next week. Thats what i was going to ask, i mean, who can effectively lead your party and be a Consensus Pick. I dont know that there is a Consensus Pick right now, maybe its scalise. The next speaker is going to have the exact same problems that mccarthy had. These hardliners are making demands. Theyre going to make demands of the next speaker. Well find out, theres going to be another bipartisan agreement sometime around November 17th to keep the government open again. Theyll have to cut the same type of deal that mccarthy cut and have to figure out the ukraine issue as well. Theyre going to have to do that. The next speaker, thats going to come right to him or her. Thats the first thing theyre going to do. Will these hardliners be as critical and harsh on the next speaker as they were on mccarthy for cutting a bipartisan deal on the budget and then a bipartisan deal on the stopgap continuing resolution. Theyre going to have to continue to do this. Everybody knows it. The next speaker may just have to recognize that he may need or she, they may need some kind government shared Power Arrangement sohat they can function because thats whats been happening, all the things that must happen T Kp The Country from defa, keep the government funded, they need a bipartisan agreement. And i think a lot of americans would appreciate y saying that where its like but they need it. How can it just be one party trying to power their way through and bulldoze their own personal agendas. One could argue that democrats at least knew what they had with mccarthy. What if its somebody whos more extreme . I think youre absolutely right. The situation doesnt get any better for the nation nor for the gop conference, right . The options dont get any better. Heres the thing i think were missing, wherein were focused On Mccarthy Loing the seat and whos up next. This is a big opportunity for mr. Jeffreys to demonstrate some leadership. He might have to commit some votes to the Republican Party. If im him im thinking about what do i want for those votes, is it the ukraine funding . Is it pull down the Impeachment Inquiry . What is it that the democrats want potentially for their votes, that may be where this thing ends up and lands. Garrett haake, matt gaetz of course was the one who started this all. Most of his party is not happy with him. What does his future look like there on the hill . Thats a great question. He was a political loner before this vote. I suspect hell be even more of one going forward. A lot of House Republicans, the 200 or so who backed mccarthy are furious with gaetz for going down this road. I dont think hes going to be censured or kicked off committees or any kind of formal punishment from the House Republican conference for the same reasons weve all been outlining. They need his vote as narrowly divided as this conference is, booting gaetz, making him somehow more intractable problem for leadership on the votes that will come up in the next few weeks including keeping the government open doesnt serve anyones needs. Now, gaetz, its been discussed the possibility that he might want to run for Florida Governor in the future. I can imagine this scenario in which hes encouraged to start that process even earlier than he would have wanted. You know, hes going to be here and hes going to continue to i think be a thorn in the side of whomever emerges from this next speakers race. Keep us posted with any new developments from the hill. Garrett hill, thank you, our thanks to charlie dent and ashley etienne, appreciate the conversation, guys. Joining us now is one of the republicans who voted to oust mccarthy, Congressman Bob Good of virginia. Thanks for taking the time. You have made it very clear you arent a fan of Kevin Mccarthy. You voted against him really from day one. So who do you think should replace him . Had some faces on the screen a moment ago. I think theres a few different candidates who i think would be strongly qualified, have the right kind of qualities that we need in a leader, and frankly, this is a win for the American People. If you dont agree with the Biden Pelosi Schumer policies under which the American People are suffering and for which they elect add House Majority to fight those policies. If youre concerned about 33 trillion national debt, 2 trillion deficit this year, a weaponized federal government against its citizens, an open border, then you wanted a true fighter for the policies that the republicans claim they stand for. And while most members of congress are risk averse and kind of put selfambition and selfpreservation at the forefront, it takes courage to fight for true change, and you saw that on display yesterday, you saw that on display in january. We held accountable the speaker. The American People didnt give the House Majority to the republicans for us to cave as we did this past saturday with the continued resolution are voted 2091 by democrats in the house. A lot i want to follow up on. Back to my original question, who do you think it should be . You said there are a lot of people you see in the faces we put up. Name names, who do you want to be speaker and what are the specific or ideal qualities you think the next speaker should have . I appreciate for entertainment purposes that youd like me to name someone, but im not going to disclose my hand, im not going to show my hand. There are several who i think would be good. We will be vetting those candidates, meeting with those candidates, asking them questions, asking them about what theyll do differently. What their commitments will be, and well be doing that together as a body. No one of us can pick a speaker. A handful of us can block things in a narrow majority, but the good news is we will own together whoever emerges as speaker after tuesdays Candidate Forum as we vote that person in perhaps as early as wednesday. They will have to get 218 votes and we will have a vested interest in their success because the country needs them to be successful but all of us members, 218 out of 221 for that person to advance as speaker. You were one of the handful of republicans who voted with democrats. You were the outsider within your own party making this vote to oust Speaker Mccarthy. What makes you think changing just one person at the top will change the dynamics in washington . Democrats control the senate and the white house. Why do you think losing this one guy will give you what you want . Well, the speaker has tremendous power in the house, and we realize the republicans arent going to get everything they want in divided government, but we can get something. We can fight for something besides becoming speaker, and you know, what we cant surrender and get rolled like we did in the failed responsibility act where we passed an unlimited increase of the debt ceiling where one of our negotiators went into the negotiation with the president basically associating himself with the president s position of not having Spending Cuts connected to the debt ceiling increase. How in the world were we going to negotiate or leverage for Spending Cuts if that was our position. Of course we didnt do that. We didnt have any significant Spending Reforms or significant Spending Cuts. We had an unlimited increase to the debt ceiling that democrats gladly voted for overwhelmingly in the senate. That was a surrender. I hear what youre saying we cant have a speaker who surrenders. We need a speaker that fights and negotiates and uses the leverage we have as the House Majority. I hear what youre saying and how important it is to rein in spending in your mind but if theres no speaker and no vote its not in my mind. I hear you. Its not in anybodys mind. It is factual reality. And i let you talk about that specifically for a while here, but right now were in this State Of Play where theres no speaker or votes for at least a week, how does anything get done . What do you think the American People are concerned about that congress isnt going to do to them in the next week or two. What did you think was going to happen in the next week or two that the American People are going to say the House Majority its been doing all these courageous tough things and now theyre not going to do it for a week or two. Theyre not going to send bills over to the senate. The senates not going to pass, the president s not going to sign. Weve got to keep the status quo going, the status quo thats failing the American People. Weve got to keep the open border policies, the reckless spending, we got to keep that going. We cant disrupt it for a week or two because congress is doing such a great job. You know that things dont move quickly in washington, just the logistics of getting through a bill that would avoid another Government Shutdown could take some time and the shutdown deadline at this point is November 17th. Thats in a matter of weeks. You will still in the Majority Party but with no votes and no speaker. How do you respond to those who question whether this is responsible governing . I agree with you to a point. We should have passed our Spending Bills as Speaker Mccarthy committed we would pass 12 or at least bring them to the floor for a vote, that was a reflection of the failure of the past and a continuation of that. Thats one of the reasons why he is no longer speaker. We should have done that. We should have broken the cycle. We should have broken the trend, and we should have done that. We should have sent the senate the most conservative bills we could send with 218 votes. We didnt do that. But the most conservative bills in the senate would not get through senate that is majority democrat and a white house we didnt do that and thats why weve got to have a new speaker. I wanted to make that point, youre saying you could get through the most conservative bills possible with a House Majority republicans but thats not going to get anything done for the American People when you have divided government, when you have democrats in the majority in the senate and a democratic president , so its not like republicans are mandate in washington right now. The the greatest reflection of the American People is the house, its not the senate, which has a third of their members up every two years. Its not proportional by population. Its the house thats a direct reflection of where the people are from a population standpoint. The most recent federal election, republicans were given the House Majority for a reason. That was to reverse the Biden Pelosi Schumer policies that are in place right now. Youre right, the senate has passed no bills, zero. The house has at least passed four bills. Both sides should have passed all 12, and we should be in a Conference Committee negotiating with some give and take, and yes its going to be tough. Give and take, key words there. But it shouldnt be a cave by republicans once again to just do what the democrats want to do, and thats what the continuing resolution was and thats the track we were on whether you have ood cr we wouldnt pass our bills this month and then wed have an omnibus in december and further exacerbate the problems destroying this country. I appreciate your thoughts, thanks for sharing your perspective with us. Thank you, i appreciate you having me. When were back in 60 seconds, well get reaction to the historic ouster of the republican House Speaker from the other side of the aisle, congressman dan goldman of new york will join us to talk about his partys strategy yesterday and beyond. Plus, who wants to be House Speaker . The potential successors being thrown around for whats been called the worst job in washington. And layer did former President Donald Trump play a role in mccarthys downfall . Hy . [car door slam] [camera shutter sfx] introducing neds plaque psoriasis. [camera shutter sfx] he thinks his flaky, red patches are all people see. Otezla is the 1 prescribed pill to treat plaque psoriasis. [ned . ] it can help you get clearer skin and reduce itching and flaking. With no routine blood tests required. Doctors have been prescribing it for nearly a decade. Otezla is also approved to treat psoriatic arthritis. Dont use otezla if youre allergic to it. Serious allergic reactions can happen. Otezla may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting. Some people taking otezla had depression, suicidal thoughts, or weight loss. Upper respiratory tract infection and headache may occur. [crowd gasp] with clearer skin, movie night is a groovy night. [ting] live in the moment. Ask your doctor about otezla. This Morning House democrats are beginning to plot their next steps after the historic ouster of Kevin Mccarthy as House Speaker. Democrats in lockstep opting not to save mccarthy from a revolt in his own party. How will the left prepare for a new leader from the sidelines. Lets bring in new york congressman dan goldman. Any regrets about democrats not saving mccarthy . I think its the wrong question to be asking. How do you answer that question . The answer is no, we have no regrets. Kevin mccarthy is a failed speaker. He did absolutely nothing to reach across the aisle in any way, shape, or form, even though as you pointed out in the last segment there is divided government, even when he reached a deal on top line appropriations numbers, he then went back against that deal in passing all of these individual appropriations bills. He has done absolutely nothing for the American People. He is trying to eliminate access to abortion. He is discriminating against the lgbtq community. He is cutting funding that americans need across the board, and we are unified because we want to help the American People, but we are in the minority. We dont have control, and they did absolutely nothing to reach across the aisle. They are captive to donald trump and the extreme maga wing, who has now revolted because even just passing a continuing resolution is too much for them. Keeping the government open is insufficient for this extremist wing, so we are unified. We are ready to govern. We are ready to work for the American People, and the republicans need to work out their own civil war and actually put the American People first. So do democrats have a plan for what or who comes next . Its not our job at this point to figure out but you have to work with your republican colleagues eventually. No, they have to work with us, and thats the critical difference here. Theyre in the majority, they control everything. Its not the senate where the minority has a lot more power. They put whatever bills they want on the floor. If they are unified, they can pass whatever they want. It is their job to come and work with us in a bipartisan way to find solutions for the American People. It is their job to pick a speaker of the house. If they cannot do that, they are unable to govern, and they should not be in the majority. We are ready to put Hakeem Jeffries as the speaker of the house. We are uniied behind him. He is focused on helping the American People, not on this politics. Not on these culture wars. Not on cutting Essential Funding for hundreds of millions of americans. Thats what we stand for and we stand united for that. Last night mccarthy blamed speaker Emerita Pelosi and democrats for his removal. I want to get your reaction. I think today was a political decision by the democrats, and i think the things they have done in the past hurt the institution. They just started removing people from committee, they just started doing the other things. My fear is the institution fell today. What do you say to that . I think its absolutely preposterous. The people who are hurting the institution are the republicans who allowed one person to vacate the speaker and the eight people in that party who voted to do that. If they think that the institution is hurt by vacating the speaker, they ought to look inside their own house. Those republicans were removed from committees because they either threatened other members or exhibited incredibly racist and discriminatory behavior. They then turned around and retaliated against democratic members of our committees and removed three of them who had done nothing wrong. And so this is constantly the democrats trying to be held to a higher standard than the republicans as if we should just do the right thing even though they dont make a single overture to us. If they wanted our help because they believe that the institution should be saved, Kevin Mccarthy should have reached out to us and tried to work bipartisanly. He never did that, not even yesterday as he got booted from the speaker as the first person ever in humiliating fashion, he never once reached out to us. If you want our support, you got to engage with us. Were ready to work. Somebody who has engaged with democrats, liz cheney is no longer in the house, so i want to ask you about this reporting from abc news that you spoke with Liz Cheney Who reportedly agreed with you that mccarthy threatened democracy. What can you tell us about that . And do any of your other republican colleagues in the house currently share that opinion . Well, Liz Cheney Who, you know, ive built a nice relationship with because we both care very much about our democracy reached out to me and just relayed a very simple message, which is this is just not about what concessions the democrats might be able to get. Kevin mccarthy has been complicit in Donald Trumps attack and subversion on our democracy. He has kissed the ring of donald trump. He pulled out the rug from a 9 11 commission because donald trump said that. He started an Impeachment Inquiry because donald trump wanted him to. He is whollyowned by donald trump, and that is a threat to democracy. And liz cheney wanted to make sure that i and all of my colleagues in the Democratic Party considered that in addition to what has happened during the nine months and we absolutely agree with her, and that was certainly part of the calculation. Congressman, weve also been reporting that pelosi and hoyer have been kicked out of their Capitol Office work spaces in the last 24 hours. Your reaction to that . Its petty, childish behavior, and it is, again, failing to take responsibility for their own inability to govern. If you want to lash out at Speaker Pelosi or steny hoyer and take away their offices, which is a custom that Speaker Pelosi gave to the house leadership when she took over, youre just being petty and petulant, and it just shows their inability to take responsibility and accountability for their failure to govern in the house of representatives. Democratic congressman dan goldman of new york, thank you very much for taking the time to speak with us. Well be watching to see whats next and how this resolves itself. Thank you. Thank you. Up next here on ana cabrera reports, the top contenders for the speakers gavel, and after what we just witnessed who even wants the job. First, republican senator John Kennedys advice to his House Colleagues. The American People expect us to govern, and in order to govern, you have to have leadership. Id also advise all my House Colleagues to be sure and take their meds. Their meds the first inkling that something was wrong was i started to notice that i couldnt do things without losing my breath. I couldnt make it through the airport, and every like 20 or 30 yards i had to sit down and get my breath. Every Physical Exertion seemed to exhaust me. And finally, i went to the hospital where i was diagnosed with afib. When i first noticed symptoms, which kept coming and going, i should have gone to the doctor and told them what was happening. Instead, i tried to let it pass. If you experience irregular heartbeat, heart racing, chest pain, shortness of breath, fatigue, or lightheadedness, you should talk to your doctor. Afib increases the risk of stroke about 5 times i want my experience to help others understand the symptoms of atrial fibrillation. When it comes to your health, this is no time to wait. Today it looks like the antithesis of a dream job, but to Kevin Mccarthy being speaker of house was his dream job. It took him5 tries to get it and ten months to lose it. And now a list of potential successors is starting to materialize with the likes of majority leader Steve Scalise and Majority Whip tom emmer being floated, but given whats happened to mccarynd even those before him like john boehner and paul ryan, is the job worth the headache . Joining us now nbc news senior political reporter sahil kapur, cofounder of Punchbowl News anna palmer, and Committee Spokesperson for republicans Kurt Bardella. Sahil, last night you talked about witnessing this exchange between senators tim kaine and lindsey graham, one democrat, one republican, the senators talking amongst themselves. Kaine says to graham, quote, hey, lindsey, you know you dont have to be a member of the house to be chosen speaker. Graham responds, yeah, but you got to be sane, and im sane enough to say no. So there are real reasons not to want this job. Talk about that and who is in the mix . Thats right, ana, its a very fluid situation right now. There has been no Succession Plan in the event Kevin Mccarthy was toppled as he was yesterday, and theres no official roster of candidates running yet. Republicans are expected to discuss that at a forum next week. There are a number of names in the mix. Lets put that visual back up. Three categories. Se down into there are the Leadership Successors who are on Kevin Mccarthys team. Stevelise is currently the next in line. Then theres tom emmer, who is the whip, the number two and number three the problem that they will have is that the hdliners who wanted to remove mccarthy, are they going to want to support someone who was very supportive of the way mccarthyhe house, who believe he did a good job. Beyond that, youve got the sort of the center right institutionalists, tom cole, the rules committee chairman, ally, a policy guy who dealt with the socalled five mies in the house in negotiating the debt limit deal. They view him as a competent person, patrick chenry, and then youve got jim jordan, and kevin hern, Republican Study Committee chairman. The qstion theyre going to have is are theyoi to get support when 96 of them supported Kevin Mccarthy. The real question these guys have is whos going to be able to do better. Kurt, Majority Whip has pointed to Steve Scalise to be under the winner. Scalise is closely linked to mccarthy. What do you see is the likelihood the next speaker would be someone currently in Republican Leadership . Well, i mean, the one benefit that we have when it comes to existing Republican Leadership and punch bowl really dissected this is the operational side of counting votes. Of knowing all the Pressure Points of members, of having a leadership staff with that continuity, that institutional experience. When it comes to these things, this is very inside baseball, having that type of dynamic and talent already able to navigate the internal conference dynamics is a leg up for someone like Steve Scalise whos been in leadership for a very long time. Now, i think anybody who is going to try to take this job on. If the rules stay as they are, if one member can trigger a motion to vacate, you might as well look at this job as a temp job, whether its in less than 45 days when the next round of budget talks happen, whether its a Debt Ceiling Limit later on, whether its any number of things that happen where someones going to throw a temper tantrum, theyre going to want to hold the entire institution hostage, if you dont insist on that kind of a rule change to prevent this from happening over and over again, its just a temp job. I do wonder how much sway will these eight defectors have, even if the rest of the party rallies around a candidate, will they . Absolutely. I mean, listen, the numbers dont lie. They have to get to 218, and thats going to be a heavy lift for any member, whether theyre on the conservative side, whether youre jim jordan or Steve Scalise or youre somebody who isnt quite as high profile or making calls at this point. So going to be a very tough hurdle for whoever ends up actually getting into that race. I do believe Steve Scalise, you know, has that leg up for all of the reasons that were just stated, but hes going to have to differentiate himself from Kevin Mccarthy and jim jordan continuing to kind of inch closer to saying, you know, hes been asked to run, certainly going to be that would be a very interesting faceoff between jordan and scalise. In fact, we just confirmed, literally just a minute ago that congressman jim jordan is now saying, yes, he is going to run for speaker. Kurt, hes got such a big role, right, on the judiciary, working with oversight, which you know so well. What do you make of him running . Yeah, i mean, its funny because going back to the Tea Party Days back when i was working on capitol hill, jim jordan was always the guy that the conservatives wanted to go up against the establishment leaders, against the paul ryans. Jordan always said im happy doing what im doing. He was happening doing the Judiciary Committee when he got behind mccarthy, but this might be his time. I mean, he has always been on every short list of people who could potentially viably run for speaker when there was a disruption in leadership, and now this opportunity has presented itself, and he has a lot of credibility with the right. The right wing media sphere will love the idea of a speaker jim jordan, they will definitely get mind him and promote him because they love the work hes done at the judiciary and oversight committee. For almost a decade, jim jordan more than any member of congress has been the face of gop Oversight Investigations whether its against Hillary Clinton and benghazi or whether its now with joe biden and hunter biden stuff, he has established a lot of credibility and visibility in that space. He is such a polarizing figure more broadly when it comes to having to work with democrats in order to get anything done given its divided government right now, so i mean, is jim jordan going to work with democrats, anna . I think that its hard to see that. I think hes going to have to also think how he can work with the moderate flank in his own party. Theres a lot of republicans that are very frustrated with these kind of Freedom Caucus members who forced the ouster of mccarthy, and im not quite sure how he would assuage their concerns that hes going to be leading this any differently. So thats going to be, i think his first big test. Yes, of course the right flank will be there for him. Thats his base, the under girding of his whole reason to run for speaker, but can he come up with a coalition. Thats what this is. Running for speaker or running for leadership, it is coalition management, and its trying to understand how youre going to peel off different factions of the conference that he has so far not made many inroads with. Anna palmer and Kurt Bardella and sahil kapur, thank you all. Up next here on ana cabrera reports, the other big stories were following including day three of Donald Trumps Civil Fraud Trial. How could a new partial Gag Order Impact the case . Buy one footlong, get one 50 off in the subway app today. Now thats a deal worth celebrating. Man, what are you doing . get it before its gone on the subway app. Liberty mutual customized my Car Insurance and i saved hundreds. With the money i saved, i started a dog walking business. Oh. [dog barks] no its just a bunny only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Since my citi custom cash® card automatically adjusts to earn me more cash back in my top eligible category. Suddenly lifes feeling a little more automatic. Like doors opening wherever i go. [sound of airplane overhead] even the ground is moving for me yall seeing this . Wild and i dont even have to activate anything. Oooooohhh. Automatic sashimi earn cash back that automatically adjusts to how you spend with the citi custom cash® card. [mind blown explosion noise] tourists tourists that turn into scientists. Tourists taking photos that are analyzed by ai. So researchers can help life underwater flourish. More coverage from capitol hill in just a few minutes. Were also following Breaking News out of new york city. Donald trump is back in court for the third day of his Civil Fraud Trial, but this time he is under a gag order. The judge in this Case Ordering Trump not to speak publicly about his staff and threatening him with fines if he does. This after trump posted a photo of the judges clerk on social media posing at an event with Senate Majority leader chuck schumer. Our Lindsey Reiser is outside the courthouse. Trumps gotten in trouble for talking about cases before, but this goes further than a warning. What exactly are the rules now and what happens if he breaks them . Reporter right, ana, the judge saying he doesnt tolerate any attacks against members of his staff. Said yesterday consider this a gag order from here on out. He said there will be sanctions if thats violated. Trump came in today, the Attorney Generals also insides court, and he didnt attack members of his staff but he once again attacked the Attorney General calling her a political animal. Hes called her derogatory terms in the past, just as recent as yesterday. Also attacking the process. Ana, i want to fact check a few things the president said. He said hes not entitled to a jury trial under this statute. That language isnt in the statute. Neither side requested a jury trial. The former president is saying this soninlaw because hes leading joe biden. The Attorney Generals Office started investigating this in 2019, and he also said that there were no defaults. Everybody was happy, everybody got their money, in this case, ana, the Attorney General doesnt have to prove intent to defraud and also doesnt have to prove there are any victims. Briefly, what are we expecting to see in court today . Well, the former president , former accountant is back on the stand, Cross Examination has begun today. The crux of the case are these Financial Statements the Attorney Generals Office says are over inflated. He says based on information the trump team gave him. In Cross Examination yesterday we heard the former president s attorney saying you draft ds these documents. You were the ones responsible for these. He said, no, it was the trump team responsible for giving me accurate information. We have other Breaking News were following right now, what could be the Largest Health care strike in u. S. History. More than 75,000 Kaiser Permanente workers including nurses, home health aides, xray techs have walked off the job in multiple states after they failed to reach a new contract by the deadline, which was about an hour ago. Kaiser employees are asking for raises and a resolution to some Major Staffing shortages that have been left in the wake of the pandemic. Kaiser says it will bring in temporary workers in its hospitals and ers will remain open during this strike. Up next on ana cabrera reports, Chaos On Capitol Hill Spilling onto the campaign trail. What could Kevin Mccarthys ouster by his party mean for the republicans who want to be president. Plus, ill talk with historian Michael Beschloss about what all this says about this era of american politics. 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So joining us this morning, democratic strategist basil smikle and republican strategist susan del percio. We just heard a real range of responses from the republican candidates there, some very strongly defending mccarthy, others very critical of him. Heres how the wall street Journal Editorial Board put it, a band of eight republicans succeed instead ousting Kevin Mccarthy a hse speaker on tuesday, and we trusthere happy. They now have the chaos they wanted. Though it isnt clear what else they hope to achieve. Their clever plan seems to be to cut off their own heads. Susan, how do the president ial candidates who want to lead this party answer to that . Well, so far they havent done it very well. They need to really explain to the American Public the importance of governance and what theyre willing to do now. They dont want to talk about it because it talks about you need to talk about compromise, and thats something theyre afraid to talk about now, but it is the key to moving our government forward, and you know, that Wall Street Editorial was something, and it was all spot on because the problem is those eight and theres a few more they really dont care about power or being in the majority. They like chaos. It doesnt matter where theyre sitting. They just want the chaos. And so when you look at not only the white house race but really you think about control of both chambers in the next election, thats a big deal, right, basil . Is the message here that voters, americans, cant trust republicans to govern given the chaos . Well, you dont have to take a democrats word for it. Listen to what republican members of the house who were in that meeting yesterday said. Representative comer said they have no plan. Representative davidson, we have no path forward for governance. They are literally saying this after they ousted their incumbent speaker, and whats interesting from a sort of larger electoral standpoint, mccarthy was a massive fundraiser for these republican candidates. There were 18 republican members that represent biden won seats. Six of them are in new york. Thats mccarthys influence in republican politics. So when you start to peel the layers back and realize that what they did was actually throw out a guy who actually helped them get to the majority in the first place without a plan forward, that to me says to susans point, they have no plan for governance. They dont understand how to do it, and then even in asking democrats to help them out shows you the kind of desperation that were talking about. I mean, on one hand youre hearing from republicans like we dont like, we dont want to work with democrats at all. We have the majority in the house. We need to do this amongst each other but wont even compromise within their own caucus, susan. Do you think that the demands, the desires of the eight republicans who voted to oust Speaker Mccarthy are realistic in any way . Will they get what they want in a new speaker . Absolutely not. They cannot be moved off of this position. And lets be clear. The only member the member of congress with the most votes for speaker is actually Hakeem Jeffries. His whole conference is really behind him. And that was made clear. These eight were not will not be able to support anyone from their caucus. It just they would rather have chaos, again. What probably needs to happen and is unlikely is that you need to have about 100 members from each side, from the problem solvers caucus, those moderates, say, lets come up with a plan because youre going to have to give democrats something. Democrats are not going to go along for nothing. What do you think the voters want though . If republicans think that it is in their best interest to do what they have done in order to keep power in the house, is this going to get them that . This would and potentially if they did a powersharing agreement, think about all the Bipartisan Legislation they got, that deal would have equal number of ds and rs on every committee but a republican chairing every committee and a shared resource. Now, thats a good get from the democrats. I dont know why they wouldnt take why they would take any less than that. Maybe you can think of something. Before you weigh in, i want to make sure we get to this too. This is interesting at least two republican members of congress and were talking about Marjorie Taylor greene say theyre going to back trump for speaker. He did weigh in on that this morning. Take a listen. Would you take the job . People asked me about it. Im focused, im sure it will be too much. Im leading by 50 points for president. My focus is on that. If i could help them during the process, i would do it. So, the speaker of the house does not have to be a member of congress. Does this have any legs . No. It doesnt have any legs and i would say if anything even remotely similar to what donald trump or anybody else that actually ascends to that position or even in the running, i think you would see a mass exodus from the house by republicans. It is just a ridiculous statement for anybody to sort of even float that. But it really does show you how desperate the republicans are. Without a plan, without real Succession Plan for leadership, theyre in a situation where i dont see how they retain majority in the house or the senate. Whatever chance they have for that in 2024. Thank you, both. Good to see you. Up next on ana cabrera reports, Kevin Mccarthys removal splashed across the front pages. Ill talk with historian Michael Beschloss as we head into unchartered territory. El beschloss as we head into unchartered territory. 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It comes with a private alternative to google search, which doesn■t spy on your searches, and it blocks cookies and creepy ads. And theres no catch. Its free. We make money from ads, but they dont follow you around. Join the millions of people taking back their privacy by Downloading Duckduckgo On Mobile and desktop today. You know, president Abraham Lincoln once said im an optimist because i dont see any other way. That was former House Speaker Kevin Mccarthy Last Night Invoking Abraham Lincoln after a historic day in washington. The news reflected in papers across the country this morning. First time ever in u. S. History that a House Speaker has been removed. Joining us now nbc news president ial historian Michael Beschloss. Michael, so good to see you. We just saw mccarthy arriving back on the hill this morning, he was asked how hes feeling, he said great, im sure that was just a quick answer, didnt want to deal with it. We have never seen this sort of ouster before. What are the History Books going to say about this moment and this era of politics . I think when we boil it all down, ana, and everyone has to be an optimist, you know, if you know american history. We usually surmount crisis. That having been said, what has been different about these last nine months is one of the weakest speakers in history, Kevin Mccarthy, plus a speaker who was under the spell of donald trump, an expresident running for president again. If donald trump did not have so much influence with Kevin Mccarthy, do we think there would have been an Impeachment Investigation against joseph biden . Do we think there would have been such, you know, disdance about policy on ukraine . For next 13 months at least, were talking about donald trump possibly becoming speaker of the house, he does need to be. Whoever is the next speaker is going to be on the telephone to donald trump all the time during that period. And so the result is going to be that anyone who is not like the kind of conflict we have seen over the last nine months, anyone who is worried about, for instance, ukraine aid, if you have donald trump to some extent behind the scenes calling the shots, this is going to be a Roller Coaster for the next 19 months with no seat belts. Just before the 2010 election, three House Republicans, paul ryan, eric cantor and Kevin Mccarthy, published a book they hoped would plant a flag for the future of their party. The young guns is the name of that book. What happened to the, quote, new generation of conservative leaders and where do they fit now in, you know, maybe the history of the Republican Party as you point out where we are, this is the trump party . Their followers went somewhere else because of gerrymandering and right wing candidates who primaried others who were more centrist in republican districts, this is a very extreme congress. Plus, donald trump. That book was published at the time that mitt romney was nominated for president. Well, donald trump is a republican nominee twice and perhaps three times, thats a very different world were living in. How do you think history will remember mccarthy specifically and his brief tenure . As someone who never should have taken this job. If he were accepting a job where basically one or two of your colleagues can treat it like the gong show and say we dont like what youre doing and youre gone, that is not a job that anyone should have ever accepted. And i think mccarthy was so enchanted by the idea of being speaker and having his portrait on the wall and if he lobbies on k street in d. C. In the future, everyone is going to call him mr. Speaker, the penalty for that was nine very rocky months. I think well see another year very much like that. Michael beschloss, thanks for your wisdom and sharing your perspective with us. Pleasure always. Thank you, ana. That does it for us today. Thanks for joining us. Well see you back here tomorrow, same time, same place. Until then, im Ana Cabrera Reporting from new york. Jose diazbalart picks up our coverage right now. Good morning. 11 00 a. M. Eastern, 8 00 a. M. Pacific, im jose diazbalart. Breaking just moments ago, a top House Republican just confirmed hes running for House Speaker. Well tell you who and what other names are being floated as permanent replacement. Were following history in the senate