According to our reporters, the former president s lawyers at times seemed to be arguing for an audience of one, and it wasnt the judge saying maralago was worth at least A Billion Dollars, and so was doral. That real estate valuations are subjective coming down to whatever a person is willing to pay. That there was no harm. The banks made money, and quote, there was no intent to defraud, period, the end. What was curious is that trumps lawyers were making some of the same arguments the judge has repeatedly thrown out, and they were doing it confrontationally. Were going to ask our experts why, since this was a bench trial. And Michael Cohen, Donald Trumps old fixer really is the quote, lynch pin of this case, as the defense argues, and whether his sworn testimony that the valuations of Donald Trumps properties were based on trumps desire to be be quote, higher on the forbes list are credible, and more importantly legally relevant. Now that Court Appears to be back in session after the lunch break. Lets get caught up on the latest. Joining us now is nbc news correspondent Vaughn Hillyard who is outside of 60 Center Street for us, nbc news justice and intelligence correspondent ken dilanian, and Bloomberg Opinion Senior Executive editor, a man who knows so much about Donald Trumps finances, tim obrien. Vaughn, im going to begin with you. There arent any cameras in the courtroom. They were there for a moment in the beginning. They were told to leave. Were getting a lot of color from our reporters inside the courtroom. What can you tell us has happened so far after the lunch break . Reporter right, this is now hour number six. This is going to be a trial that goes on five days a week. The judge set up potentially all the way to december 22nd. Of course that could change here. This is a courtroom in which not only donald trump is attending in person, he does not have to attend, and we dont expect him to attend for most of this trial. But lee Letitia James, the assit Attorney General, the lead prosecutor, the one who announced this initial lawsuit against donald trump is in the courtroom as well. That is rather small gallery there, but Letitia James is seated a few rows behind where donald trump is seated and there was a moment from the producers in where they described the moment where donald trump walked by and glared at Letitia James, and came to the microphone, lambasting, the Attorney General, suggesting she has been on a political vendetta since she announced her run for Attorney General. And this will ultimately be decided by a judge. There is no jury in this case, and the judge will be the one to determine the extent to which donald trump, his two adult children, don jr. And eric, as well as the Trump Organization are liable for the financial fraud laid out in the Attorney Generals lawsuit that was first filed more than a year ago. Its interesting, vaughn, that donald trump is going after the Attorney General, but also more importantly after the judge, and hes doing so right outside of the Courtroom Doors in these lunch breaks or recess breaks. Can we play a little bit . I think we have it, of what donald trump has been saying about the courtroom. Did you misstate the size of your apartment by 25,000 square feet. My Financial Statements, just for you, by the way. Its a rigged deal. My Financial Statements are much lower than the actual network. This judge and your fake Attorney General of new york whos driving business out, whos letting murderers run all over the city, they dont do anything to murderers running all over the city. The Attorney General is a racist, Letitia James, she ought to be ashamed of herself. Thats him going after Letitia James, it wasnt the sound byte where hes going after the judge, calling the judge deranged. Why were you asking him specifically about the Square Footage of his penthouse . Reporter right, that was the friday Campaign Stop in los angeles in which i was joining the former president , and you could hear me try to ask him just one of the examples laid out by Letitia James is his Midtown Manhattan trump tower apartment in which they claimed it was 30,000 square feet, in reality, its 10,000 square feet. The value is 310 million, which is three times more than any apartment has ever been sold in new york city. Allen weisselberg told the Attorney Generals Office that at least it was about 200 million over valued but you heard donald trump not directly answer my question, my attempted question to him about the overvaluation. But for donald trump, so much of this is not even about the facts, and we should know in one of the moments he took to the microphone this afternoon, he was talking about the Appellate Court and ill let your legal expert, including ken, get more into the details, but donald trump was hoping that the Appellate Court would delay the trial from Going Forward or toss it out all together, suggesting that the statute of limitations applies to this case. Last week, Appellate Court ordered today could happen, and the first day of trial could move forward. Donald trump frustrated by the mere existence of this lawsuit, going on attack not only against the Attorney General but also the judge overseeing this case. Of course, a play book that we have seen donald trump go forward with in the past, and the situation of the judge, its not like the judge is going to leave the courtroom. For donald trump, unless he chooses to testify himself before the judge, going and walking outside of the courtroom is his best microphone, outside of going on the campaign trail, and convincing millions of americans that he is being facing an unfair civil lawsuit from the new York Attorney general. Lets talk about the fact that he showed up today at all. Ken dilanian, we dont usually see him in court. He said hes going to show up in the past but he hasnt done so, at least in new york. What did it mean today to have him in that courtroom . Thats right, katy, and hes not required to be here. Its a civil trial, but he chose to be here. For one thing, he got a moment that was broadcast widely where he got to denounce the proceedings and get his Point Of View across as only donald trump can do, saying things that have been refuted by a judge in his partial Summary Judgment ruling last week. Its important to remember. Most of the contested issues in this trial have been decided. The judge has ruled that donald trump committed massive fraud. The real question in the trial is going to be the damages and the remedies, whether he will have to pay 250 million as the Attorney General is seeking. For trump, it almost appears this is as much about politics and image making as it is about the law because he may be figuring that, look, hes already lost with this judge. The judge has made it clear, he thinks theres fraud. Hes not counting on a great outcome. He may or may not win in the Appeals Court but hes going to try to win in the court of public opinion. Thats why he showed up today knowing that the cameras would follow. Tim, so much of this is about reputation, and what donald trump has built around himself in terms of a legend of the successful businessman. Its being pierced by this judge. It has been pierced by this judge who ruled last week, he based business on fraud, that he was a cheat. Coming into this, you know, performative episode today, a lot of it was fore gone conclusions. Its not a matter of finding him guilty of fraud. Its a matter of how much pain hes going to suffer, based on the penalty financially, and the removal of new york businesses from him, his children and his entire company. I think its a measure, i think of how lost he actually is that hes Prioritizing Vaudeville over sitting quietly, and trying to let this proceeding go in a different direction, and im sure he believes already that its going to go against him. He has nothing to lose. This is basically a performance for the campaign. Yes, its a performance for the campaign. His lawyers are performing for him. His lawyers are in over their heads. But none of that really matters because i think at the end of the day, he sees himself as a political figure. He might appeal it. If he loses the appeal, hes going to lose quite a bit of money. Letitia james is looking for 215 million, which you found is what hes worth. Most of his wealth is concentrated in new york. If he has to let go of his businesses here, theres a small handful of skyscrapers that account for a lot of his wealth. If hes forced to sell under fire sale conditions, hes not going to make as much money as he might otherwi be able to, and hes not going to operate in the city anymore. His familys legacy is here. His ability, i think to reposition himself as a businessn is here, and i think hes basically letting go of all of that. In the service of being a cult leader politically. Having to forfeit his identity. What about the idea that doral is worth at least A Billion Dollars or maralago is worth A Billion Dollars. It is worth as much as somebody is willing to pay for it. Do they have any argument that those things can go out and say that in order to get favorable loans . Maralago is encumbered by all sorts of zoning restrictions. Its a members club. Trump had to turn it into a club because he couldnt afford to own it at the time that he bought it. Hes not gngo sell it for A Billion Dollars in my estimation. The day the judge said you are all overvaluing maralago. Eric took to twitter, the judge is wrong, its worth A Billion Dollars, as they all continue to say, one, they cant control themselves, and two, they dont think theres going to be consequence for it. I guess, put it into laymans terms. Why does it matter . He can say what he wants about the property. Why is it problematic to claim hes got more Square Footage than he does or his property is worth, you know, x times as much as it likely is worth. Square footage isnt, but Property Values are subjective to a degree. To a degree, but to a small degree, you can compare them to other properties in the same area. You can compare them to how much of the property you actually own. In trumps case, they are owned by the people. He controls the commercial space on the first two floors, does it the land underneath it. Thats leased. He does it at the end of the day, he sees wealth as a pecking order, and hes so deeply insecure about his track record as a businessman, and how he is perceived by others that he cant help to exaggerate things. You cant walk into a bank and say lend me 500 million because i have A Billion Dollars in assets when you maybe only have 2 million in assets. They argue the banks made money. There was no harm done. Thats not true in every case. Some of the banks may argue that they werent damaged. One of the witnesses in this case is on both sides, rosemary vrablik, of Deutsche Bank is on the prosecutions witness list and the defenses witness list. I think the prosecution is going to say to her, he lied to you, didnt he, and you got burned, and theyre going to hope she says yes. I think the defense is going to say, he came in and showed you what he had, and you thought they were good honest reflections of how much money, and you knew better, correct, and theyre going to hope she says yes. I can do what i want but the banks are going to go in and take their own assessment. Thats what they have, indeed, argued but the insurers, i think, have a different view of this matter. I dont think all the banks are uniform in how they see these things having gone down. I think thats part of what the testimony is about, but, again, the fraud is already baked in. Its already been decided. Its how much money hes going to pay. And whether hell hold on to the new York Properties which are tied up in his identity, The Myth Making Around Who donald trump is. Tim obrien, thank you so much. Its good to see. Vaughn hillyard, ken dilanian, gentlemen, thank you as well. Coming up next, donald trump is trashing the judge, as i said a moment ago, who will decide how much he owes in his civil fraud case. And hes doing it outside of the courtroom during breaks in the trial. We have our legal expert here to tell us what that will mean for a decision. Plus, do democrats save Speaker Mccarthys job . The sign we saw over the weekend that suggests they might, and if they do, what would they get in return . We are back in 60 seconds. We ar. Delicious too. Just ask my old friend, kevin. Nothing like enjoying a cold one while watching the game. Whos winning . We are, my friend. We are. all toooo youuuuu sean i wish for the amazing new iphone 15 pro d. jason sean do you mean this one the one with titanium . sean no way i can trade this busted up thing for one. jason maybe stealing wishes from the birthday boy is not your best plan switch to verizon and trade in any iphone and get the new iphone 15 pro on them. sean what . jason yup, and on an Amazing Network sean and i dont have to ruin anymore Birthday Parties jason yeah, that ship has sailed. Lets go get you the iphone. Here we go, come on hon. vo trade in any iphone in any condition for a new iphone 15 pro on us. Only on verizon. Whenever youre hungry, theres a deal on the subway app. Buy one footlong, get one 50 off in the subway app today. Now thats a deal worth celebrating. Man, what are you doing . get it before its gone on the subway app. Lets keep this conversation going, joining us is former brooklyn prosecutor, and msnbc legal analyst, charles coleman. Always good to have you. I want to start with what i tease, the idea that donald trump is going after the person whos going to be deciding his fate here. The judge is going to be deciding. Its not a jury. Its a bench trial. Let me play this time the sound byte where donald trump is going after the judge directly, again, right outside of the courtroom. This judge should change his ruling because Palm Beach County said he was totally wrong, and he was ruling based on them. We didnt even have a chance to testify. I got a call last week, sir, we lost part of the case. I said, the trial didnt even start, you know, the trial starts, i guess, today. He ruled that we lost a big part of the case because hes a democrat politician. Hes a democrat operative. And hes a disgrace to people that call themselves judges. And i hope my lawyers go in, and i hope they fight him very hard. Because this guy is getting away with murder. Okay. So i know Donald Trumps been around the legal world for a long time. Im sure that his lawyers at the very least if he didnt know already have explained what Summary Judgment means where a judge can go in and make a decision if he decides so, and thats what happened on friday, and this trial is about, again, we have been talking about this, how much money he owes and whether he will maintain control of his properties. Its a bench trial. Is it a good idea to go after the judge . At the end of the day, it doesnt matter. To echo what ken and tim were just talking about. This is a performance for the campaign audience. This is donald trump not the defendant, its donald trump the candidate. I was laughing when i was watching him because ive had so many of these conversations before, but its truly sad because what hes doing is capitalizing on the ignorance of the public that does not necessarily understand how the legal system works, like you already talked about. He knows because his attorneys explained to him and because hes not unfamiliar with the courts what Summary Judgment is and why hes in the position that hes in. But his followers, his acolytes, his devotees, they dont understand that and hes capitalizing that on that by making it seem he was denied access to a legal trial. And understand this is a narrative that we can fully expect to hear parroted and repeated by many people who arent as sophisticated but who do follow him and take his word as law as if to suggest that because this judge is a democratic person, hes not someone who can be trusted and railroaded donald trump into not getting a fair trial. Alena haba, and some of the other attorneys got pretty confrontational according to our reporters inside the courtroom with the judge, arguing that donald trump didnt hurt anybody, there was no harm done, no fraud, and that the judge should pay attention, the witnesses matter, the evidence matters, insinuating that he wasnt paying attention before, and theyre making some of the same arguments that he has previously thrown out and scolded them, reprimanded them. Sanctioned them. Sanctioned them for using. What are those arguments and why are they still making them . These are the only arguments that they have. They are basically saying no harm, no foul, this is a victimless crime. Youre looking at it in the wrong way. My client is someone whos being targeted for who he is. Theres no statute of limitation that covers this. The Attorney Generals Office does not have the standing in order to sue. Any myriad number of arguments. They have taken everything they can and thrown it against the wall to see what will stick. None of it has stuck, and thats why you saw sanctions issued last week with the judges order who told them very clearly, youve made these arguments before. They have not passed muster before. Here are the reasons why they have not passed muster before. And youve been warned that if you continue to make them. There will be problems because of the fact that they do not cut legal muster, and you did it again, and so now youre facing sanctions. This is all they have. Theyre going to appeal this. Of course. Is there an argument that they can win. Do you see any road or any path for them to get this appealed and for him not to have to pay a fine or not to have to give up his new York Properties . At this point, i dont. I think that whatever the judgment is that ultimately is ordered as a result of this bench trial may be the only thing that changes on appeal. What about the decision the judge made . The notion of the decision itself and the finding of fraud being reversed, i highly doubt that. I dont speak in absolutes. Its not something that i can conceivably predict or foresee would change upon appeal from Donald Trumps attorneys. We have asked this before in other cases, but lets play a little bit of what Michael Cohen is alleging. Hes one of the big witnesses for the prosecution. Once he loses the license within which to operate the Good Standing of the certificates of incorporation that make up whats called the trump corporation, not only is the main company now going into the receivership, but there are hundreds of other Subsidiary Companies that additionally will ultimately go as part of the receivership. It is a financial catastrophe. It is the death blow to donald. He also argues that donald trump would value his properties because he wanted to be higher up on the forbes list, inflate the value of properties to get higher on the list. Michael cohen, again, weve asked this. Is he a credible witness in this case . Hes not Donald Trumps, you know, hes not allen weisselberg. Sure. It depends on who you ask. The reason i say that, a broken clock can be right twice a day. If youre looking at Michael Cohen who at some point was entrenched with donald trump in such a way that led him to find himself behind bars, that doesnt mean that hes not someone who knew and knows about the Inner Workings Of Trump world in such a way that he can provide honest, truthful and credible information, and so as a former prosecutor, i can tell you you seldom have a witness that does not have challenges or complications with on the stand. It is not something youre unfamiliar with if youre tish james office. Youre prepared for it. The information hes providing is something that hes known, that he would have been in the position to know, and that hes telling the truth. Everything else is background noise, and thats what theyre going to try to make it seem like. Hes testifying under oath. Charles coleman, always good to have you. Nice to see you in person, especially. What deal did speaker Kevin Mccarthy make to get a majority of democrats to help him pass a continuing resolution. Was there a deal . And if there was, does that deal extend to protecting his gavel . Also, who is laphonza butler, the woman governor gavin newsom just tapped to fill the late senator Dianne Feinsteins seat. Nne feinsteins seat nology for the newest vehicles. And we do more replacements and recalibrations than anyone else. Customer thank you so much. Tech dont wait schedule now. Pop music singers safelite repair, safelite replace. And were done. Hm, what about these . Looks right. [sfx spilling sound] nooo. Nooo. Nooo. Quick, the quicker picker upper bounty absorbs spills like a sponge. And bounty is 2x more absorbent so you can use less and get the job done with one. 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Com. vo you were diagnosed with Thyroid Eye Disease a long time ago. And year after year, you weathered the storm and just lived with the damage that was left behind. But even after all this time your Thyroid Eye Disease could still change. Restoration is still possible. Learn how you could give your eyes a fresh start at tedhelp. Com. 209 House Democrats voted to avert a Government Shutdown. Only 126 House Republicans did, meaning speaker Kevin Mccarthy a republican passed the stopgap funding bill, relying on those across the aisle. We have been talking a lot about what would happen if mccarthy had to lean on the democrats for help, and now we know. Fewer than 24 hours after the measure passed, congressman matt gaetz vowed to try and vote mccarthy out of the speakers office, and yet curiously today instead of calling for a vote, he kept on threatening one. So, mr. Speaker, just tell us, just tell us, what was in the secret ukraine side deal . What commitments were made to President Biden to continue the spending of President Biden in exchange for doing things for President Biden . It is becoming increasingly clear who the speaker of the house already works for, and its not the republican conference. Mr. Speaker, i would ask that these questions be answered soon because there may be other votes coming today or later this week that could be implicated by the answers to these questions. So if a vote eventually does come, if it does, do those same democrats come to Kevin Mccarthys aid, and if so, why. Joining us now is nbc news capitol hill correspondent ryan nobles, i say this is still a big if because we havent yet seen it. Lets talk about what the democrats are strategizing here because more democrats voted for this cr than republicans d and there is the question about was there a back room deal . Was there any deal for Kevin Mccarthy if his speakership comes into question, and he needs to rely on democrats, either table it or not show up to vote as all, meaning he would get a majority of republicans. Do we know of any deal that exists . Reporter Kevin Mccarthy has said explicitly there is no deal, and the democrats i spoke to said theres never been outreach in terms of democrats rescuing him should there be a motion to vacate, and you laid it out well. You can make an argument for and against if youre a democrat, about the reasons why you should keep Kevin Mccarthy in his position as speaker of the house or if theres reasons to throw him overboard as well. I genuinely believe in the conversations that i have had is that democrats are wrestling with this decision. I think before they come right out and make their stance known, they want to see if matt gaetz is going to make good on this threat. He has made this threat for a long time, done tv interviews, but hes yet to take that provocative step of putting a motion to vacate on the floor. Theres no benefit in democrats showing their cards in this showdown until matt gaetz actually takes that step. I think it is clear that Behind The Scenes theyre weighing all possible options. I say its an if. Its not entirely clear that matt gaetz has enough republicans to put this up for a vote and be successful in ousting him. I have heard this a couple of times from a couple of republicans members that matt gaetz would have to do what hes accused Kevin Mccarthy of doing which is going to the democrats for support, and matt gaetz would need democratic votes to get speaker Kevin Mccarthy out of the speakership. Thats a Talking Point coming out of some republicans about what might happen next. Reporter thats simple math, right, katy . At the very least, you know, theres maybe five, six republicans that want to see Kevin Mccarthy gone. Theres more than 200 that are certainly going to vote to keep him in place. Now, five is enough, if all the democrats get on board and support this motion, so it would be democrats ultimately that would be the bulk of people removing Kevin Mccarthy from office, so it is quite the paradox that matt gaetz finds himself with, accusing Kevin Mccarthy of working with democrats. And if he gets booted out its because democrats have the most votes behind that. Youre seeing both sides trying to figure out the best path forward here, against the backdrop of all of this, katy, theres another huge deadline of november 17th, and theyve got to pass 12 appropriations bills. Im wondering if democrats think its worth to it to add to the chaos to kick Kevin Mccarthy out of the speakership when even though it has been difficult, they have been able to work with him to get a debt ceiling passed, to get this 45day extension passed. Theres pros and cons, no doubt in this entire matter. You know what, were going to get to do this all over again in 43 days now. Its really exciting. Ryan nobles, thank you very much. Thanks, katy. Also happening today, California Governor Gavin Newsom made good on his promise to appoint a black woman to late senator Dianne Feinstein eat. Laphonza butler is expected to be sworn in on wednesday. Joining us now is qued Political Correspondent and cohost of the political breakdown podcast. Great to have you. Who is laphonza butler. I should correct one thing, theyre now saying shes going to be sworn in tomorrow because of course senator Dianne Feinstein is being laid to rest on thursday. To get to your question, she is a long time labor leader here in california. She ran the Statewide Sciu that represents nursing home workers and Home Health Care workers for about a decade. She actually advised Kamala Harris when she was running for president before she came on to the biden ticket. She has worked at airbnb and consulted in the private sector, and a Democratic Power house, she has been racing money for Democratic Women candidates through emilys list, and so its a surprise, but i think its a really interesting pick by the governor. I think he really checked a lot of boxes here that, you know, gosh knows he was getting all of the lobbying the last few days over. Its interesting that he didnt set any preconditions. For instance, he doesnt say that she can not run for the open senate seat. After he appoints her. And there were questions about whether hed do that, there was already a heated race for that senate seat among some pretty well known democrats in california. Yeah, i mean, this really, i think, in some ways is the governor flexing his muscle, and exercising his independence. As you said, you had oakland congresswoman, barbara lee, a black woman in her 70s whose allies pushed hard for her to be appointed since he had made that promise on msnbc a few years ago, that it would be a black woman if Dianne Feinstein didnt complete her term. This is a loss for nancy pelosi. Shes been a vocal supporter of l. A. Congressman adam schiff whos running and katie porter from Orange County is also running. This really does scramble things, and it doesnt exactly sort of go back on his word but he has said he didnt want to put his thumb on the scale when the candidates were already running this race. This certainly will give butler a huge leg up to be an incumbent if she decides to run. Were out of time, but i want to ask you about where she lives, maryland . Isnt there talk about her living in maryland but still registered to vote in california . Shes reregistering in california. She owns a house in l. A. Her wife and daughter and she moved to maryland in 2021. All the legal experts we talked to said it wont be an issue but could be a political question. Got it. Mauricia lagos, thank you very much. Appreciate it, katy. Student loan payments pick up for 40 million americans this month after that threeyear pandemic pause. What it could do to the economy. [sneeze] dude you coming . Alkaseltzer plus powermax gels cold flu relief with more concentrated power because the only thing dripping should be your style. Plop plop fizz Fizz Winter Warriors with alkaseltzer plus. When moderate to Severe Ulcerative Colitis takes you off course. Put it in check with rinvoq, a oncedaily pill. When i wanted to see results fast, rinvoq delivered rapid Symptom Relief and helped Leave Bathroom urgency behind. Check. When uc tried to slow me down. I got lasting, steroidfree remission with rinvoq. Check. And when uc caused Damage Rinvoq came through by visibly repairing my colon lining. Check. Rapid Symptom Relief. Lasting steroidfree remission. 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The Supreme Court returned to the bench today, and if you thought issues on guns, abortion, gerrymandering, social media or federal oversight were settled, think again. Each are either back on the docket or expected to make their way back this term. Testing how far the courts 63 conservative super majority is willing to go on some of the countrys most important and yet controversial issues. Decisions that will also test the publics support of the high courts authority. New Gap Lop Polling shows a record low of americans, just 41 , approve of the way the court is handling us job. Joining is a mark stern, give us a primer on what to expect this term. This is going to be an exthe record tear term, and the Supreme Court is essentially going to have to face the consequences of its own actions. It has been handing down so many conservative decisions, and the lower courts, especially the Fifth Circuit have been running with those decisions and pushing the limits of how far the justices will go. So we have a case asking whether domestic abusers have a right to bear arms. Asking whether the federal judiciary should blow up the s. E. C. And the cfpb, asking almost certainly whether the court should outlaw Medication Abortion nationwide, and so many more kind of barn burners. This is a real reckoning and i think john roberts is in the hot seat because hes enabled so much of the slide to the right, and hes going to see if he can control the pace of this revolution. When are we expecting to see the Abortion Decision . So the court has not formally taken up this abortion case, but it will. It has already weighted in, halting the Fifth Circuits decision that attempted to strictly limit access to abortion pills. The full court will probably grant the case within the next few weeks if not months and render a decision before june. That means for most, if not all of this term, it will be an open question, whether people in blue states where abortion is perfectly legal will retain their access to safe and effective Medication Abortion or whether unelected judges will pull it off the shelves. Its a test of the way we approve our drugs, and whether that gets rolled back for a lot of different drugs, including say viagra. Let me ask you about ethics, there is a lot of questions about whether the justices are going to take up a code of ethics, a written code of ethics, do you have any expectation thats going to happen . Ill tell you, i was surprised this morning that Justice Thomas did recuse himself from a january 6th related case in which john eastman, one of his former clerks had tried to block the release of documents to the January 6th Committee that actually mentioned Clarence Thomas. This was the first time hes ever recused from a january 6th case. In previous instances hes weighed and tried to hamper the January 6th Committee, so perhaps hes starting to get the memo. Im not sure. He didnt provide a reason even though the Chief Justice claimed that the court would begin providing a reason for recusals, Justice Thomas decided not to. If thats an indication, then maybe theres some movement Behind The Scenes. Justice kagan came out swinging this summer in a series of talks where she said the Court Should Adopt Ethics Rules and binding rules that can be enforced but there was still some holdouts Behind The Scenes. I dont think its a big mystery who those are, its Clarence Thomas and sam alito who create a Need For Ethics Rules In The First place, so, again, this is going to be the Chief Justice trying to work his magic Behind The Scenes, trying to cobble together a unanimous support for ethics rules and reminding his colleagues, look, if we dont do this and write it ourselves, there is a real chance that congress is going to step in and i would rather write this than have Democratic Senators be the ones behind the wheel. 41 of americans say theyre not doing a good job, 41 , according to a gallop poll, and part of the reason is not the controversial decisions that might seem out of step with the majority of americans, but also the fact that there doesnt seem to be a code of ethics, and we have learned that in the reporting the past six months. Mark, thank you so much for coming on, i appreciate it. Coming up, the uaw made a tentative deal with volvo, what pressure it puts on the big three. 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Let your employees do their own payroll. vo in three seconds, pam will decide. pam im moving closer to the grandkids wait. I got to sell the house vo dont wait, just sell directly to opendoor. Easy as pie. pam piece of cake. vo whichever. Get your Competitve Offer at opendoor. Com. sean i wish for the amazing new iphone 15 pro jason sean do you mean this one the one with titanium . Switch to verizon, you can trade in any iphone, and get the new iphone 15 pro on them. vo trade in any iphone in any condition for a new iphone 15 pro on us. Only on verizon. The uaw appears to have made a last minute deal with volvo to avoid a strike of mack truck factories. 4,000 workers represented by the uaw reached a temporary agreement which puts pressure on the big three. That strike against the big three is now in its third week affecting 40 Assembly Plants with more than 25,000 uaw workers. Joining us now is nbc news correspondent maggie vespa. Does this put pressure on them, this volvo deal and how so . The big three arent saying in short, katy. From the outset, they have been always focused regardless of the optics, regardsless of the outside factors, and they are only focused on their negotiations, that nothing from the outside is going to impact that. But of course Union Members hope, yeah, this sets an example that another auto maker can come to an agreement with the United Auto Workers union. I should note, we dont have any of the details. In fact, a source familiar with the negotiations from the union standpoint says were not going to see those until members have a chance to review this deal with mack trucks, and for those not familiar, mack trucks is largely a commercial trucking company. The union very hopeful, members on the picket lines who we have been speaking to for weeks very hopeful that this puts kind of a little bit of at least pr pressure on the big three saying another company can reach a deal with us, why cant you. Of good and a few not so good signs. One of them being the feel of things. Three out of four americans rate the economy as not so good or poor. Why . Joining us now is nbc News Business and data reporter brian cheung. We keep asking this question even though there are so many signs that show us the economy is doing pretty well. Why is it so persistently negative when we ask people how they feel its doing . Another way of putting it is the vibes seem weird, it is a weird economy. When you take a look at the two major measures of the economy you look at jobs and prices. Unemployment, things are good, 3. 8 , thats essentially near over 50year lows, but inflation is high. We all are feeling that at the store, 3. 7 economists say what would be healthy is closer to 2 . The big story for a lot of americans was that the rate of inflation was higher than the rate that your wages were going up, which meant that any raises you got were eroded by higher prices. That story changed. Now wages are going up by 4. 3 on a yearly basis and prices are going up by 3. 7 on a yearly bases but that change only happened in the summer. People have been going over a year without having any sort of wages that could keep up with deflation. This is a chart of the prediction for how the economy could grow, you could see right now 1. 3 would be the estimate from Goldman Sachs over how much the economy is going to grow at the end of this year. Thats slower than the previous quarters that we had seen in the later part of last year and the beginning of this year. One reason, saving, saving, saving, people are drawing down on their Bank Accounts because of how high inflation had eroded our earnings earlier in the year. We will have to see if that picture changes when we get to 2024. Brian, thank you very much. Coming up next, what happens to ukraine if congress cant agree on funding . Ne if congresst agree on funding take a moment to pause and ask, why did you get vaccinated against Pneumococcal Pneumonia . I help others. But i need to help protect myself. Honestly . I couldnt afford to get sick. I want to be there for this one. I cant if im sick. Pneumococcal pneumonia is a potentially serious bacterial lung disease. You may be at risk if youre 19 to 64 with certain chronic conditions. Or if youre 65 or older. Dont pause a moment longer. Ask your doctor or pharmacist about getting vaccinated against Pneumococcal Pneumonia today. upbeat music awww. Awww. Awww. Nope. 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At stores everywhere without a prescription. sean i wish for the amazing new iphone 15 pro ive been taking prevagen for a little over five years. jason sean do you mean this one the one with titanium . Switch to verizon, you can trade in any iphone, and get the new iphone 15 pro on them. vo trade in any iphone in any condition for a new iphone 15 pro on us. Only on verizon. Heres why you should switch fo to duckduckgo on all your Devie Duckduckgo comes with a builtn engine like google, but its pi and doesnt spy on your searchs and duckduckgo lets you browse like chrome, but it blocks cooi and creepy ads that follow youa from google and other companie. And theres no catch. Its fre. We make money from ads, but they dont follow you aroud join the millions of people taking back their privacy by downloading duckduckgo on all your devices today. We cannot under any circumstances allow americans support for ukraine to be interrupted. I fully expect the speak tore keep his commitment to secure the passage and support needed to help ukraine as they defend themselves against aggression and brutality. President biden is pressing speaker Kevin Mccarthy to put forward a funding bill that includes aid to ukraine, but with more than 100 House Republicans in opposition its not clear mccarthy has the political capital. So what does that mean for the war . Joining us now is richard engel. What does it mean if congress isnt going to allocate more money . Reporter well, its devastating. The ukrainians will lose the war if they dont get funding, they dont get money, they dont get the weapons and thats primarily what we are talking about here because the funding is generally for weapons and ammunition, some economic support. If they dont get it they lose and thats the message that has been conveyed by the Ukrainian Government and frankly it matches up with what ive seen in ukraine on many reporting trips to front line areas. They get they receive ammunition, they receive weapons and they go through them and they go through them very, very quickly and the ukrainians are worried that the world is giving up on them, that the United States, europe, even Eastern Europe is fed up of writing checks to what seems to be an openended conflict and the ukrainians keep trying to emphasize how important it is, how important it is for the world, how this would be another example of appeasement but frankly i have never seen the Ukrainian Government, the people around zelenskyy, as nervous as i have right now. They are worried that the momentum could be shifting. Just look what happened in the United States recently, when president Zelenskyy First went to washington he addressed congress, everyone was slapping him on the back, he received standing ovations. On this last trip, yes, he was well received, but he left and there was a Government Shutdown and no money came for ukraine. And he tried to meet with republicans. He tried to get republicans to let him speak on the house floor, Speaker Mccarthy said no and he got a rather, i think, icy reception according to the reporting when he did try to meet with some of them. Let me ask you about what this means for negotiations. Might this indirectly urge ukraine to start negotiating with russia . It might not give them the greatest leverage but i wonder if this speeds up that process. Reporter 100 . And president Zelenskyy Has said repeatedly that what he worries is that nations are doing this deliberately to force him into negotiations when he has a very weak hand. To force him to come up with some sort of deal which could only involve compromising ukrainian territory and giving up part of the country and thats why they believe its appeasement. But at the end of the day if the money stops and the weapons stop they will have no choice but to go to the Negotiating Table and come up with some sort of deal. If they dont have any more bullets to fire, what else are they going to do . But that does come with a cost and what ukraine has been trying to emphasize is that cost isnt just 20 of their territory more or less right now, but its the cost of for the for the western world, the cause of freedom and thats the same message that President Biden has been emphasizing, same message we heard today from the State Department saying that they can continue funding ukraine, including with security assistance, for the coming days, but any further longterm commitment requires an action by congress. And its the same time, actually, that they are making some progress on the battlefield, particularly in the black sea. And theyre saying that if there is any settlement with russia it will only encourage russia to keep going and potentially threaten again as you were saying western nations and maybe World War Iii if they invade a nato country. Richard engel, thank you very much for joining us. Thats going to do it for me today, deadline white house starts right now. Hi there, everyone, happy