hold a vote on its version of a continuing resolution. speaker mccarthy is now turning to democrats, to support his plan, and shifting blame first for potential shutdown while willing to risk his speakership it would appear. >> you know, what if somebody wants to remove, because i want to be the adult in the, room go ahead and try. i think this country is too important. i will stand with our military, i will stand our border agents, i will stand with those that half -- to get their medicine from government as well. i think that's too important. we have done 70 -- percent of our job, where the senate has done, nothing the senate can't even get anything to the floor in time. we can, and you know, what if i have to risk my job, for standing up for the american, public i will do that. >> we have reporters in place from washington to florida, to cover all of the -- we are beginning right there with both of those ladies, let's go first to julie tsirkin, the -- capitol hill. what is happening with the house's efforts to pass a 45 days short term spending bill? >> we are still in the same place we were in terms of the house, floor democrats right now are trying to use procedural tactics to buy them sometime as they meet, and trying to figure out what the heck they are going to do about this 45-day cpr. here's why it puts them for a lack of a better word in such a pickle. it's because it's a 45 decline extension of the governments ahead of that shutdown deadline tonight, it includes disaster relief for millions of americans that we know have been impacted by weather, by other natural disasters all throughout the summer months, and into the fall. speaker mccarthy had talked to me about this just last hour, take a listen to what he laid out. >> you guys are still here? >> wow, we had an interesting [inaudible] >> i have a meeting right now. >> mister speaker, will the clean crp house on the floor? >> we'll have determined, here's an opportunity, he'll only fill up democrats fight against it. this is an opportunity to make sure our troops get paid while we finish our jobs. the house has done 70% of all of the appropriations dollar figures, the senate has done nothing. the senate cannot move a bill in time for governor shutting, down but i cannot look at the troops in the hour -- and worry here they are defining our, freedoms and -- let's keep, it open while we finish the work that we have to get done. >> what do you say to democrats who say that this is rushed, that they need more time to read this bill, are you willing to give them a couple of hours? >> how is it rushed, when it's just a basic cpr. they are making lies about -- know this only goes 45, days it has nothing to do with anything, else the only thing that's added into it, it helps the faa, the white house was claiming the faa, problem the house has passed that faa bill, the senate has. not or trying to solve a lot of problems that the senate has failed here. we had the disaster money for those people in hawaii, in, florida and california. it would devastate that the white house asked for. all we do is say, keep government funded as it, is make sure the faa can go forward, make sure the troops get, paid make sure the border agents are getting paid, and let's finish our -- >> i tried to make sure, i tried to pass -- >> why don't you bring it up more? [inaudible] >> let me answer. >> mister speaker -- >> let me answer her question. i tried every different way, we are watching today after day after day after week after week. i've tried to pass the most conservative, to keep us going, to secure the, border that did not get enough votes. here we are hours away before a government shutdown. all i'm saying here is giving an opportunity to keep government open for 45 days, because the senate has not on their, work we finish doing our work so we can secure the border, if the border agents are paid, and we have all these, russian what would next month look like? i don't want to do. that's what our military look like? secretary of transportation was -- we protect the faa because the senate did not do their, job and the house did. what we're able to do is keep it funded, keep our work going, i have made sure that house states in session, people are not going home. people are finished doing their work, hopefully the senate would start theirs. we will be able to move forward. >> what do you say to hard-liners that say this preserves -- under pelosi. >> it's 45. days what happens -- those things keep going as well. what we're trying to do is in the short time, period, sometimes there obstacles, but don't lose sight of where the objectives. find your way around the, obstacles i don't think the american public should be punished for. this if i want to be the adult in the, room and the democrats want to vote no. that's on them. >> when is the president done to try to keep this government open? are they lobbying against this bill, because that's what i'm hearing. what could they oppose on? it we provided them. i want to pass the most conservative, bill where we cut the, money secure the border, but we didn't have enough republican selves to. that's here we are, hours away, keep it open. keep the week going so we can keep the border, secure and. >> are you worried about losing your job given the fact that you're bringing this to the floor? >> think about that for one. moments i never fear. that if i lose my job, overlooking out for the american public for taking a stance for our troops, and our border agents, then i'm not quite sure what people want. this allows us the time to get the job done, but why should they be punished? because the senate did nothing. think about that question. if somebody wants to remove me from putting americans first, then so be it. >> so you heard in that long for minute interaction with speaker mccarthy, he feels like this is really the best shot to keep government open, and he's putting the ball back and democrats courts, who are going to have a hard time voting against. this they're going through the bill, now at another gaggle -- i asked him why shouldn't democrats have time to read that spill, he said they have a hard time reading about keeping the government open, that was his response to. him they're going through it line by line, now democrats are huddling here trying to delay on the floor to prevent this vote from starting just yet. , meanwhile across the chamber you have senators who are piling into that, remember they have their own stopgap government funding measure that includes ukraine, that includes the disaster aid that this bill does. certainly, if the house was able to pass their version of this bill, that will put pressure on senators who are led by democratic leadership. >> okay, let me ask you how long you think it's going to take four of the house members that are convening right now, looking over this additional 70 pages or so. so this new continuing resolution. bill how long is that going to take for them to go through, when do you expect it to come up for? about >> that's the number on. question if you are up to speaker, mccarthy he would've custom to vote on this bill, an hour and a half ago at this point. that was his original plan. it looks like the motion to adjourn the chamber is going to fail on a bipartisan vote, again, this is all just a procedural tactic to buy them sometime as they huddle and figure out next, epps because in the word of one lawmaker, this was a surprise, to them and they're going to have to figure out what to. do voting against government -- ahead of this deadline, even without the ukraine aid that many lawmakers up here, republicans and democrats think it's vital, and crucial, it's going to be hard for them to vote against a bill to fund the government because of that. no matter the, optics and no matter the -- just gonna let you, know the vote was tallied in the motion was not adopted, so we're seeing movement there on the, floor it looks like house members are returning to their seats. after milling around and communicating what's happening. we're going to let you go for, moment don't go too far, but you can certainly poke your head in there and see what's going on in just a, moment so thank you, julie excellent reporting. let's go from there now to the white house, monica alba is there with reaction from president biden. always with her excellent reporting is. well we know that democrats are blame-ing republicans, house republicans, they're pointing the finger and blaming the senate. who does the president think is responsible for this impending shutdown? >> the president has been really clear, alex all week long when he was asked about this, and then we actually heard and learned a little bit more about his position in an interview that he did yesterday that was posted overnight, and it's exactly, that's the white house has been very clear that the president really puts the blame on house republicans, and specifically has called out speaker mccarthy because it was that handshake agreement that the two men worked for days on back when we were in this position months ago to try to avoid a crippling default of the united states that would have been the first in history. that that ceiling debacle where we were also seeing these hour by hour negotiations, and movements on capitol hill. president was very. once they did get to that agreement that it was senate -- house democrats in the, end all got behind, including the speaker, the president is now saying that it's the speaker's responsibility to stick to that deal. here's how he put it in this new interview. >> the speaker's made a terrible bargain. he's willing to do things that i think he knows, are inconsistent with constitutional processes. number one, number two, i think it says that there is a group of maga republicans who want to have a fundamental change in the way the system works. that's what worries me the most. >> the white house of course is very closely monitoring all of these developments, watching carefully, and as we have, seen they have really tried to make a clear picture here of what the -- shutdown would be, and all of the federal agencies that would be -- should there be a lapse in funding tonight at midnight, and we know what it means also in terms of these hundreds of thousands of workers who would be furloughed,, what would it mean for air traffic controllers, border patrol agencies, some of these people doing the most intense and -- who would have to the white house has been drawing americans to realize what could happen, they want of course to see a shutdown averted, so the question now is, is the white house, are those who work so closely with their legislative partners right now, talking to some of these democrats who are considering supporting this 45-day extension, and telling them okay, this is going to help avert this possible economic disaster, are they signaling to them whether or not they should do that? democrats want to read this unfold to understand what they would be supporting here that would essentially possibly avoid this, or keep it very very short. as julie has been pointing, out expertly, nothing really on the hill happens that quickly, this could take a little while if they do want to pass something, or if they want to add amendments to any of it before it would actually be done before the clock strikes midnight tonight, but maybe it would shorten the length of it if they could try to do this in the next couple of, days so the white house very closely paying attention to all of that as is president biden who remains here at the, white house and we will expect to hear more from white house officials on what they are seeing as this progresses this afternoon. i. >> okay monica, about thank you so much for, that extraordinary times for the presidents perspective, really telling that mccarthy is violating constitutional guardrails, let alone -- back in, june as we watch the house, floor we see hakeem jeffries there taking to the, podium so we will monitor that as well from the control booth for, you but let's go right now to washington congressman adam smith, ranking members -- let's step out of the -- aisle give me a -- are you able to make heads of tails -- an hour and change you go to go through to make sure this was a cleaner solution. >> it's very chaotic, and it's chaotic because speaker mccarthy was trying to appease the maga extremists in his party. he took us right up to the brink of running them dictate the policy, and then apparently this morning he decided he was going to try to do something sensible, and try to keep the government. open he flung this out, there and he's been spending the last hour and a half trying to figure out what is in that proposal. that's what we're going to be debating run right, now but in the chaos all comes down to the fact that mccarthy has decided to let matt gaetz run the congress. he may have changed his mind recently, and we're trying to figure out what that means exactly. >> are you worried he would have tried to slip something meredith making a presumption if he did not give you enough time -- all 70 plus pages in detail, you would be voting on something you are unaware of? >> one of my favorite quotes has never been -- what you can put down to simple incompetence. is it possible? i think it's more a matter of the fact of the basic incompetence with which he and all of the republicans have run the house since they took over. i think it is far more likely that they are doing this just because they are not very good at their jobs. now that we have looked, at it it does appear to be a clean c r, the only thing as it does abandon ukraine. this is no small issue, when you look at the way vladimir putin is doing to the ukrainian people right now. i think it is important that we help them in their fights, entered appears that speaker mccarthy for the moment is abandoning them. that's not in significant, but other than that, the a bill appears to be that the supplemental -- is putting forward. and the continuing resolution. >> is it difficult for democrats right now to consider supporting speaker mccarthy because essentially what you're going to have to do, throwing him a life to line, to continue his speakership as opposed to not funding the federal government? >> that's a separate, think what we're going to decide here in the next hour is do we -- -- that's one thing to decide, the second thing will come, is matt gaetz follows through to believe that he won't, if he makes the motion to vacate the chair, then what are we doing? i will tell, you i have a very simple ask, if speaker mccarthy gives us a vote on a supplemental for ukraine, i would seriously consider keeping him as speaker. if the choice is between that kevin mccarthy sort of half asked running house, or matt gaetz actually running the, how's i choose to have to ask kevin mccarthy -- it's not a good choice, i'll grant you, that and i'm hoping what everyone is learning watching this is having the republicans in charge of the house -- it's a disaster. it's a point i want to make, clear you've got a lot of moderates out there like mike lawler who claimed that they are on separate, gates they are empowering him, they are empowering the chaos, that kevin mccarthy and the republican party has brought to this country. if you vote for them, you are voting for that chaos. there is no such thing as a moderate republican right now. we are stuck in that chaotic world. >> i appreciate you being there outside of the chamber, i know you'll be able to join us as we take a listen to the -- hakeem jeffries right, now let's take a listen to what he's -- getting applause from the democrats. >> at some of my colleagues want to do, unleash weapons of war. they are not used to hunt deer, they are used to hunt human beings. and stretch, children so we worked in the bipartisan way. hey to pass the to safer communities act make progress. for the american people. and then we worked on the chips and science act. that will bring domestic manufacturing jobs back home to the united states of america. [applause] as opposed to our jobs moving in the other direction. [applause] and to invest science, technology, engineering, mathematics. to ensure that our young people, have the skills to succeed. in the 21st century. economy. and our competitive, continue to elevate american exceptionalism. that was done. in a bipartisan way. there were some areas where our republican colleagues refused to do what was right in our view for the american people. that's why, in some instances, we needed to just act to put people over politics. people over politics. [applause] that's what we did. with the american rescue plan and inflation reduction act. our bipartisan track record, continues, we stood up for the men and women who have served this country. and who are exposed to burn pits, or toxic substances, or agent orange. and through the pack act, under the leadership, of speaker pelosi and chairman mark takano, we stood up for our veterans to ensure that millions of them would get the health care that they deserve. [applause] and we got the pact act. over the finish line. [applause] once again, it was bipartisan. in nature. we understood there were great threats to our democracy. because of what occurred with the former president of the united states. >> congressman smith, ever listened to hakeem jeffries, he seems to be going through a list of accomplishments by democrats. certainly, sir, you can be very familiar with. let me ask you this question. if there is a shutdown, for how long could that last? given the divide, how long could it, last we're couldn't goshen's even go if that were to happen? >> well, i think that has shifted. we'll see. it's going to be a really interesting -- right now. you can have a lot of republicans, republicans don't want to vote to fund the government under any particular circumstances. we're gonna lose a lot of republicans on this vote. a lot of other democrats who are concerned about the fact that this doesn't support ukraine. it's not a clean process. and all that, up will get a wig count on this one. if i had a, bit i would get that we will pass the c r. and eventually, the senate will get there. and if we shut down at all, it will be for half a day. however long it takes to work out the differences between the house in the senate. the larger question is, what happens going forward? it only buys 45 days. what can happen in 45 days from now. the normal process here is to have the house and senate in the white house talking with the appropriations bill. this is what president biden said is so important. we cut this deal six or seven months ago now. speaker mccarthy, the house republicans, they agreed to top line numbers from the appropriations bills. and then they went back on the deal. went back on the deal, now they just want to cut, yesterday, they want to cut 30%. so, they don't even know exactly how much they want to cut it. they are unwilling to negotiate on the appropriations bills. if they buy us some time, will still be in chaos between now in the end of the year. >> congressman, if you stay with us a bit longer, might clear you if we can. regulars in for a moment to akeem jeffries. i know you're able to hear as well. stay with us. >> that will's bipartisan. in nature. what also passed, the american rescue plan. at a moment of great crisis, the very beginning of the previous congress. in the midst of a once in a century pandemic. that cost so many lives. so much pain. so much suffering. so much death. we move decisively under the leadership of president biden. to pass the american rescue plan. which put shots in arms, money in pockets, and kids back in school. we passed the child tax credit as part of that. that reduced child poverty in america by half. by half. [applause] not a single republican would join us. that's part of the effort. to make sure that the american dream is alive and well. and every single vote. [applause] and we reduced poverty, these are things that were done for everyone. every single american, regardless of zip code. urban america, rural america, suburban america. suburban america. small town america. the heartland of america. >> once again, we're giving a very close eye, and iran things in the house chamber. that is the minority leader, hakeem jeffries. running through a list of a democratic accomplishments, as they face a crucial vote to keep the government open for just 45 days, to continue their continuing resolution that has been proposed by speaker kevin mccarthy. we'll keep listening, take a short break, and there's a lot more to talk about, including what is really fueling those fights between matt gaetz and speaker mccarthy. also, we'll share the breaking news about donald trump and why he's expected to be in on monday. it'll be the start of his new york civil trial, plus, the first guilty plea in georgia from a codefendant of the ex president. there's a lot going, on stay with us. with us. ...so he takes zzzquil. the world's #1 sleep aid brand for a better night sleep. so now, he wakes up feeling like himself. the reigning family room middle-weight champion. better days start with zzzquil nights. whenever you're hungry, there's a deal on the subway app. buy one footlong, get one 50% off in the subway app today. now that's a deal worth celebrating. man, what are you doing?! get it before it's gone on the subway app. ♪♪ have heart failure with unresolved symptoms? get it before it's gone on the subway app. it may be time to see the bigger picture. heart failure and seemingly unrelated symptoms like carpal tunnel syndrome, shortness of breath, and irregular heartbeat could be something more serious called attr-cm, a rare, under-diagnosed disease that worsens over time. sound like you? call your cardiologist, and ask about attr-cm. 24 past, for keeping a close eye on that what is going on on the house floor there on capitol hill. we are monitoring the potential vote on a continuing resolution, as we get more information, we'll bring that to you. in the meantime, the other big, breaking news, donald trump is expected in new york on monday, to attend the new york civil fraud trial, that threatens his entire business empire. several sources report, he will appear in court monday. and tuesday. the judge overseeing that case ruled. so, the former president routinely overvalued his assets to get favorable loan terms, and lowered values to pay lower insurance premiums. go figure all that. we're gonna be joined right now by -- political investigations reporter for the guardian. welcome, hugo. okay, first of all, is trump required to be in court on monday and if not what is his calculus for being there? >> he's not required to be in court for 250 million dollar civil fraud trial. but the stakes are high for him in two ways. in other words, this goes through the core of his entire business empire. there's a series of pretrial rulings, the judge engoron in this case, has determined that trump engaged in fraudulent business practices. suspended the licenses in new york for a lot of the trump businesses. the second element here, the reason why we know that trump is even entertaining this trial, is because he is trying to reschedule his deposition in a separate litigation that he filed against michael cohen. his former lawyer. we were looking at the court documents yesterday. that michael cohen was saying, could be rescheduled, save it for october 2nd to take place and october 9th. >> okay. that was going to be done, wasn't gonna be down in florida? the fact that the former president was leaving the state, okay, got that. in the federal january 6th election interference case against trump, prosecutors argued in yesterday's legal filing, that the former presidents social media posts on friday suggested that general mark milley should be put to death for treason, that was reason enough for the judge to issue a narrow gag order against him. and our colleague, nbc's vaughn hillyard, asked donald trump about his comment last night. take a listen to that. >> general milley, what he did, it's really treasonous. you look at what he said to china, he's either stupid or it's treason. >> there are many people that would call it treason. >> but why suggest death? >> thank you very much. >> how much do you think it's gonna play to judge chutkan's decision on whether to issue a gag order? >> i think immensely. the crux of the court filing by special prosecutors last night, that since, that initial -- to prevent trump from continuing to attack them, attacking the judge, attacking trial witnesses. trump has continued to malign and call into question the witnesses that testified against him. this really cuts to the heart of what the administration of justice and criminal trial is all about. and judge chutkan has previously warned trump's lawyers, if he continues to be making incendiary remarks, filtering a trial date up. might have to impose some sort of restrictive order under the ability to discuss the case. i think we're very rapidly headed there. the fact that he continued to lash out at mark milley. as well as on his truth social post. which a special counsel actually referenced in their request for a gag order, i think it's only gonna make life under trump very difficult, because judge chutkan is more likely than not going to treat him like any other criminal defendant, and oppose some sort of restriction. >> look, more food for thought or in this regard, also in the legal filing, federal prosecutors said that donald trump may have broken the law, if he bought a gun during a campaign stop in south carolina this week. now, trump's team now says, that didn't happen. but jack smith's team wrote, the defendant eitherpurcsed a gun in violation of the law, and his conditions of release, or seeks to benefit from his supporters mistaken belief th he did so. so, how does this affect whether judge chutkan imposes a gag order? >> i think it goes back towards judge chutkan said at one of the very first hearings in this case. which is, his campaign demands need to yield to a status as a criminal defendant. this is exactly what the topic is going to be at the oral arguments scheduled in two weeks time on this matter. it's not clear if trump actually broke the law because, in order to buy a gun in south carolina, you're gonna be a state resident. there's no indication that trump actually bought, it or actually came into its possession. but there's a general theme here, alex, the general theme is that he continues to seek special treatment for himself, and that's exactly the sort of thing that article three judges, in the district of columbia, thoroughly dislike. especially when their high profile cases. >> okay, hugo, thank you so much for weighing in and all that. we've been keeping a very close eye on the house chambers. we've got more on that right now. we'll see you again soon. we're going back to capitol hill, everyone. we're joined right now by democratic congressman, richie torres of new york. let me get your sense of where things stand right now. i've heard the word chaotic thrown out a bunch of times in the last hour and a half. is that an appropriate assessment? >> look, under republicans, the houses in a state of complete chaos and confusion. and that has been the story from day one. we've gone from the longest speaker vote in history to a near default on the debt. two on the verge lowell of a government shutdown. and as far as i'm concerned, the government showed that is not an inevitability it's a choice on the part of the republican party. we have a bipartisan compromise to keep the government open. it has the support of the senate, majority leader chuck schumer, the senate minority leader mitch mcconnell. the house minority leader, hakeem jeffries. the sole stumbling block to preventing a government shutdown is house republicans. >> the continuing resolution, 75 plus pages, that includes, by our understanding, merely funding for emergency disaster relief. how much has that been read through? how long will that take? has that been completed? you know that stance? >> the republicans have a 72-hour rule, this must have 72 hours to review legislation. we have not even received a 72 minutes. this is all been rushed. and we have reason to believe, the clean ciara's not as clean as the republicans are advertising it to be. it's a dirty cer. the republicans have the audacity to include in the cer, a pay increase for members of congress. why on earth would republicans include a pay increase when millions of americans are in danger of being furloughed, forced to work without pay? i think that's deeply offensive. >> i can understand that. i think a lot of americans might feel the same way. are you confident that something will get resolved? granted, you should be having, 72 hours to deal with this. the factors, wrap against the clock. ten and a half hours to go until the government would officially shut down. are you confident that something will be agreed to in the form of just some stopgap measure to keep it open until potentially november 17? when you have to go through this all over again? >> look, i continue to worry that there is an imminent threat of government shutdown. but the burden falls on speaker mccarthy and house republicans. instead of surrendering to the far-right of his party, he should be negotiating with house democrats on a bipartisan basis. that is the only way forward, that's the only strategy. of preventing a government shutdown. >> what is the lesser of two evils for democrats? is it crossing lines in supporting kevin mccarthy if he gives at least some level of reason to do so? or is it the prospect of shutting down the government on principle? >> i mean, if you're referring to a motion to vacate, that's a leadership level decision. i would defer to the decision of leader jeffries. >> absolutely, i understand, that it's more about will you cross the lines and vote with the republicans under speaker mccarthy's leadership for this continuing resolution? is that the better option, other than shutting down the government? >> well, i don't speak for myself. i'm prepared to vote for either the senate see r or a genuinely clean see our. cr. those will let you off and i see going forward. analysts in order to prevent a government shutdown. >> but you know this is not a clean cr, you mentioned pay raises. >> look, we're in the process of reviewing the legislation. but, again, there is a lack of trust here. if you recall, during the debt limit negotiations, the speaker committed to certain spending levels, and they reneged on that agreement. in order to placate the far-right of his party, a kangaroo impeachment inquiry into president biden. there has been a breach of trust that is complicated negotiations. >> understandably so. democratic congressman, ritchie a torres of new york, a lot to keep an eye on right now. thank you for taking time to join us. we appreciate that. in the meantime, what matt gaetz constituents have to say about the anxiety on capitol hill over the pending shutdown? 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(soft music) we are looking at some live pictures right now of the senate floor, which we are certainly keeping a very close eye on as well as the house floor. they have been scheduled for a one pm vote in the senate, that has been pushed back. we're gonna follow when that will -- continuing resolution, one that will take place. in the meantime, let's go to nbc's marissa parra, joining us live from pensacola, florida. so, this is matt gates home district. let's talk about the impacts of the stalemate in washington. which promised to be felt across this country including that district what are you hearing from the folks in pensacola? because we know the republican lawmaker matt gaetz led that charge to opposing the stopgap spending bill. meant to keep the government open. or his constituents that you're speaking with aware of that? >> yes. i will say, we are seeing a good amount of support for his actions and his motive play of what is seemingly to be a moving more possible shutdown. here we're seeing everything from ambivalence to anxiety to support when it comes to a shutdown. there's a lot of people that are in support, because they believe in doing what it takes, they said. they said that this seems like a small sacrifice to get what needs to be done. and it really depends on who you talk to, of course. just like anything else. the people who are more impacted, the more impact they, are the more they care about what's happening. the closer you get to the military base, the more people are talking about. it out here on the streets, people who live around here, civilians who have nothing to do with the military, are pretty much largely ambivalent. largely. so the closer you get to the military base, we walked inside of the commissaries, walked to military communities. people were definitely talking about it. even in those circles, when i talk to active duty military members, i asked them how anxious are you? some of them said, i've got a savings. i'm not too concerned. some of them are living paycheck to paycheck. and aren't more concerned. but still, supported the idea of a shutdown. because of the principles of. it'll take you to two different people. the first are gonna hear, from an active duty military member who is a little younger, would be more impacted. the second is someone who owns a local tour shop. who is not directly impacted the hill. but supporters going on. take a listen. >> a little nervous, some of them aren't as well financially setup. if they stop getting paid, it could be very bad for them. definite people to support them. >> shutdowns always political. it doesn't really have much to do with matt gaetz, i partially go with what they're doing. we need to get the southern border closed. >> so, to your point, alex, remember where we are. that's a large reason why we're seeing the kind of responses that we. our i'm sure we're gonna go to some other districts in other, blue or parts of the, country there might be some very different feedback. this is a district that voted for gaetz, they said that's exactly what we voted for him to do, alex. >> okay. marissa parra, thank you for bringing this all the perspective from there. for all of, you will be back in a moment, to talk about the very bad news that donald trump got this week. got this week. hed to the bargain detergent, but we ended up using three times as much and the clothes still weren't as clean as with tide. so we're back with tide, and the clothes are clean again. do 3x the laundry and get a tide clean. it's got ♪o be tide. tourists tourists that turn into scientists. tourists taking photos that are analyzed by ai. on monday, donald trump is so researchers can help life underwater flourish. ♪ goli, taste your goals. so researchers can help life underwater flourish. expected to appear in a new york courtroom in a civil fraud trial. it is a case that could see trump lose control of some of his flagship new york properties. this week, the judge in the case ruled the trump lied to banks to obtain favorable loans, and inflated his net worth by billions. joining me now, executive editor of bloomberg opinion and msnbc political analyst, tim o'brien. welcome, tim, we're gonna get to this as quickly as we can. given everything it happening on capitol hill. there are a lot of open questions about what the judge 's ruling, it is coming fraud trial. could mean for the trump organization overall. a judges order this week canceled all of the business censes for the trump organization. and handed the reinso a court appointed official. so, if that ruling stands, tim, does that mean donald trump and sons don junior and erik could lose possession of trump new york real estate properties? what would be left for him after paying off taxes, different things that he would go? >> well, i think, you know, it's a fait accompli at this point. i don't think is an issue of whether not he is going to face consequences. it's a matter of how severe the consequences will be. i think it almost seems like a fait accompli, he's gonna lose the business certificates. that allow him to operate his business in new york. about, i think, 60% or so of his net worth is tied up in new york. they're gonna have to dispose of all of that through liquidator, probably a fire sale crisis. they'll undoubtedly appeal whatever final verdict comes down. so it's not gonna be instantaneous. i think again of our time winning out appeal as well. they will face a fine, for fraudulent activities, it may be as high as $250 million. it's gonna get sorted this week, various examples of trump violating the law. and the judge will make a determination on each of those violations as to how severe his punishment should be. the financial piece of this may get watered down, but i actually don't think that that's the most damaging, the most damaging piece of this is him losing the ability to operate in new york. that is a death blow to his family's legacy. he built his business on the back of a housing empire, his father built in greater new york. his reputation, and his rise, were in new york. there is a personal reputational and a branding legacy in new york this is going to get, i, think in the capped by all of this. and he can't operate here any longer, and norvell's two eldest sons. the wildcard in, this all three of them potentially are going to testify as witnesses. and >> when you watch for that? >> well, i'm watching for one of the -- whoever put themself up on the witness. isn't donald trump's horrible untruth. he's a lawyer's worst client to have under oath. because he lies, he exaggerates, he performs. he doesn't stick to the script. and don junior, eric, had already shown themselves to be undisciplined. a day last thursday, when the judge ruled that he was sanctioning them because they deflated the value of their properties, erik took to twitter and claim that mar-a-lago was worth a billion dollars. which it most assuredly is not. he engaged publicly in very activity he's going into a courtroom to contest. so, you know, a lot can happen on the witness stand. >> so, i know this is all about new york properties. but could donald trump potentially, as a result, a domino effect if you will, lose mar-a-lago as a result of this? >> mar-a-lago's gonna be hard to get rid, of it a landmark, there's a lot of zoning restrictions around. it would be hard for him to sell. it's a club. he doesn't own the whole thing. the members on part of it. he wanted as a club. it depends on what his debt structure looks like after, this if he has a lot of debts. he's unable to pay off, he may have to liquidate other properties. but i think, right now, what he's really looking at is getting about the worst price you could possibly imagine, for a series of properties in new york that he used to regard as trophy properties. >> it was suggested that trump tower is the one that he values the most, is that true? he thinks it's iconic? >> well, you know, when he went bankrupt, almost went personally bankrupt, and early 90s, three things you wanted to hold on to. his jet, mar-a-lago, and trump tower. he has a xxx in trump tower that he is famously exaggerated in value in size. >> three times the real size. >> he doesn't really own trump tower, per se. all the condominiums are owned by the people who live in the building. he doesn't own the land. he controls the commercial space. and the bottom of the building. he gets some management fees. it's not the most valuable thing he owns in new york. >> okay, tim o'brien, always appreciate having you on. it's an awfully busy day on washington as well. look forward to seeing you again. thank you so much. coming up next, we're gonna talk about a new book that details a real life version of succession, why a lot of people are unhappy about it. that's ahead. 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[sniffs] still fresh. still fresh! get 6 times longer-lasting freshness, plus odor protection with downy unstopables. my husband and i have never been more active. get 6 times longer-lasting freshness, shingles doesn't care. i go to spin classes with my coworkers. good for you, shingles doesn't care. because no matter how healthy you feel, your risk of shingles sharply increases after age 50. but shingrix protects. proven over 90% effective, shingrix is a vaccine used to prevent shingles in adults 50 years and older. shingrix does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients or to a previous dose. an increased risk of guillain-barré syndrome was observed after getting shingrix. fainting can also happen. the most common side effects are pain, redness, and swelling at the injection site, muscle pain, tiredness, headache, shivering, fever, and upset stomach. shingles doesn't care but, shingrix protects. shingrix is now zero dollars for almost everyone. ask your doctor about shingrix today. back with more breaking news, approaching ten hours, over a potential government shutdown. the scene on capitol hill is basically one of chaos. with a flurry of last ditch negotiations yet no deal in sight. the house vote is expected today on the republican plan to keep government open for at least 45 days, via a continuing resolution. well a vote on the senate's version on that, a continuing resolution they have proposed, has been delayed. we are following a lot of things right now. in the meantime, it seems the knives are out following the release of a new book predicting the demise of the highly influential fox news channel. the fall, the end of fox news, and the murdaugh dynasty, explores rupert murdoch's departure. the dominion settlement, and donald trump's grip on the republican party, as it relates to fox's future. the channel, and some of its anchors, or already taking issue with the book. with a network spokesperson saying the fact that this -- are spooked by starting at live, is all we really need to know. the author, michael wolf, joins me now. before we get into what's in the book, i know michael, as i say thank you for joining on this busy day, that you told my colleague ari melber, you are going to a murdoch circle party today's ago, i would love to hear about that. the question is, was rupert or any of his children, any of them there? did anyone toss hors d'oeuvre at you? what happened at the party? >> no, actually, on the way to the party, i said to my wife, i was suddenly wary of what i was walking into. i said, let's not go. i can't face this. she said, what do you mean? i got my hair done for this. therefore, we went. the party was a lot of murdaugh executives. i was received, well, i would say, warmly. as a matter fact, the only negative things were people saying, you didn't go far enough. why didn't you call me, i could've told you this. the following. and this person, you didn't mention this person, having an affair with that person. well, you should have. actually, this often happens after i published a book that people come out and told me, all the juicier stuff that i've missed in the book that i already knew is going to be juicy. >> what you're saying, despite the public outcry, and people saying, this book is such and such. you're saying the insiders are telling you, good, job you got it right. you actually didn't go far? enough >> of course. this book is based on what insiders say. and it's worth saying, actually, the only thing that fox said, that weird thing that i was spoofed on saturday night live. i was spoofed, of course, on saturday night live because my book about trump sold so many copies. and became such an event. but the other thing worth pointing out, whatever fox is, remember, fox, they are liars. they have been proven to be liars. they had to pay 700 and $87 million because they are liars. so, i would not necessarily trust what they said. remember, they have a reason to lie. i don't. i just delegates lori. >> so, we know that rupert murdoch plans to formally resigned in november. was the timing of this book coincidental? i'm curious what you make of this succession plan. when you think happens next? >> no, i think it was probably not. i mean, rupert murdoch is 92. he should be retiring, it's probably should've retired quite some time ago. but i do think that this book is a fairly vivid description of what happens when a 92 year old runs a significant public company. he runs to public companies. and what happens is, these companies are not really run. they kind of drift. nobody makes decisions. i think with this book coming out, that became harder and harder for fox to defend. so rupert stepped, as he says, he says he's not stepping down, he's stepping back. we don't exactly know what that means. >> what do you think about loughlin taking over. the succession plan? >> loughlin murdaugh, theoretically, he's the ceo of the company. he has been theoretically running the company for several years now. his pattern is to defer to his father. his mission seems to be to please his father. i think he sees his father as an historic individual. i think it's probably true. his job in this role is to honor his father and to do with his father wants. i don't see him very much changing. >> okay. michael, you and donald trump appear to be on the same page, relative to this. how much does trump's rise and fall track with the ups and downs of fox news? and what's the story behind the story when it comes to rupert murdoch, and donald trump and their relationship. . >> well i think it's fair to say that donald trump became the president of the united states, in good part, because of the support of fox news, that's a kind of painful irony for rupert murdoch, because rupert murdoch to tests and as always detested donald trump. he thinks he's a joke and a buffoon. and i think it's been very painful for hamm -- that his channel, his empire, has been so fundamental to trump success, and after january 6th,, he basically, said i can't take this anymore. i'm gonna do something about it. of course why he didn't do something about it a long time ago is another question. he decided, i'm gonna do something about it. what i'm gonna, do i'm going to make rhonda santa's, a republican nominee, fox news is going to support rhonda santas and he's gonna defeat donald trump. we'll see how that is turned out. so, i think rupert murdoch the great mogul of his era. at 92 years old, is kind of a defeated man. >> three of your books about donald trump, i want to ask you about this quote, it appear in the guardian here it is. now the dust has settledtrp is no longer upset, i have mid to mar-a-lago, i've h dinner with him and melania. he calls me from time to time, it's as though we are, actually i don't know we are. we're friends? that can't possibly be. but we have some relationship. what are your dinners like with donald and melania? >> well, it's actually like you're at a -- and they're the bride and groom. you're sitting there with them, basically, all they do is greek people. and exchange, trump's, whatever is talking about, to one person. just shifted to the next person. and melania, who is incredibly nice, she greets people. and she seems happy to see everyone. but we're not, at much deeper level than high, how are you. nice to see you. yes. so, sitting there, and i've sat there, you just look around in wonder. >> iis a book filled with wonder for those of us fascinated by all the things you address here in this book here. there it is, everybody. there you can, see it even used fox news graphics for the cover. they're very good. michael wolf. >> maybe also us. maybe those of us. >> i'm sorry, the mother of four. all right, thank you so much. for the interview. appreciate it. that's gonna do it for me on this edition of a very busy one of alex witt reports. also again tomorrow at one pm eastern. my friend yasmin vossoughian buffing up for a very busy hour ahead. just sinex, breathe, ahhhh! what is — wow! sinex. breathe. ahhhhhh! subway refreshed everything. and now, they're slicing their deli meats fresh. that's why the new subway series subs are proffered by this qb. and proffered by his old backup qb. and if we proffer it, we know you'll proffer it too. have you been behind me this whole time? 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