we're tracking the fallout in that devastating ruling that found year of fraud by trump and his companies. the trump org reeling as a new hearing held today. the rule came out yesterday. it was big news. for all the pending cases against trump, this one has swift financial consequences with fraud and financial tricks and a fantasy world is what the judge said they were operating in, not the real world. lies to banks based on -- and patently false fatally flawed claims as well as other judgmental terms you see there by the judge. now, experts and trump lawyers are already scouring this ruling to make sense of what it means when you cancel business licenses, when you dissolve parts of the company. and we have more clues on what that means today, because trump's lawyers were in court today asking the judge if the order means they have to sell assets, including trump tower, would this oust the sons from their own homes? the answers could come within a detailed follow-up in a month. trump tower was run as a business fraud, lies about apartment and features. it is home for trump, who was, you remember, in trump tower when they famously went down that escalator. the tower is his home and business. part of his public life from that ride to his apprentice tv show to the original seemingly brash decision to create his spectacle building on fifth avenue. >> a knew trump building called the trump tower going up on fifth avenue. >> we purchase a site with the old department store on it next to tiffany, and we had to really take the building down. i see the inner cities as being probably in terms of a real estate sense probably the most viable investment. i really am not looking to make tremendous amounts of money. i'm looking to enjoy my life, and if that happens to go with it then fabulous. >> trump is not enjoying the sctiny on that namesake tower. the ruling rolls back the business model where trump and his company pushed misleagued valuations of skyscrapers, golf properties. they fraudulently inflate properties including the seven springs compound. there's nothing new about the exaggeration that you might see in big city real estate, certainly in a big city like manhattan or about trump's routine of pushing well past that exaggeration into the kind of fraud busted by this judge. for those who find tonight's judgment day to be feeling like it's a little late, remember -- that is partly because trump and his lawyers were actually fined yesterday in a very unusual punishment, had a strategy of delaying dithering, and prolonging every step of of this and other cases from the original deposition for this case to the testimony sought to filings to when he finally did testify but didn't cooperate or explain why it wasn't fraud but instead pled the fifth. the strategy is to not only duck court oversight -- that's what happens in court -- but it's also to exhaust everyone, including maybe you, a member of the citizenry so that by the time the judgment finally does come, people are, even understandably, saying, are you still hearing about this? talking about this? isn't this old news? i can tell you tonight i do work in the news. this is not old news. this is new news, right now. trump's lawyers are court are facing these questions. they're literally outloud having to say, however embarrassing it may feel to them, you have to ask the judge, will trump's sons face a version of fraud eviction? are there buildings trump might lose control over, be forced to sell off under the control of those appointed by the court? and the judge has had enough of their blatant lies, even reaching for the judicial version of a pop culture reference, likening trump's lies and rebuttals to an old marx brothers, who you going to believe, me or your own eyes? >> i thought you left? >> i saw you with my own eyes. >> who are you going believe, me or your own eyes? >> classic. the quote on the screen is not just because we're marx brothers fans here. it is because in this ruling the judge quotes that very line as the final rebuttal to trump and his lawyers. baseless, fraudulent lying arguments. i have two very special guests here. one began her career helping build trump tower. nice to see you, barbara. and former prosecutor christy greenberg. i want to get into all of this with you, include diagnose marx brothers of it, and how long it's been going on like this, swoef our shortest break, one minute, and then we're back with you. te, and then we're back with you. 40 wall street actually was the second tallest building in dotown manhattan, and it was actually before the world trade center was the tallest, and then when they built the world trade center it became known as the second tallest and now it's the tallest. >> that was donald trump speaking on september 11, 2001 as thousands were murdered or fleeing the downtown area, but he was hyping, well, how tall his building was and how it would now be the tallest building thanks to the terrorists and that murderous attack. i want to bring in my guests. she worked with donald trump and is author of the book "tower of lies", and former prosecutor christy greenberg. your reaction to all this? because you and other people built this building, but then the findings is that trump and part of the company habitually lied about what was built. >> of course. they lie about everything, from the finishes to the size of the apartments to the number of apartments sold to the prices that he got. it was -- everything was a lie. >> why did it take this long? i mentioned the delay tactics. that's the last couple years. but in the earlier years he seemed to get away with this in new york. >> yeah, he did get away with it. the delay story goes back to the first lawsuit he engaged in, trying to keep people from being able to stay alive by making them play legal bills. but, yeah, it's -- he has been doing that for a long time. and it's -- you know, that building was like his centerpiece, and it will always be associated with him, unfortunately. but yeah, the finishes, the -- everything. >> yeah. christy, the judge seems to have had it. >> yes, that's an understatement. this would billion the wwe equivalent of a smackdown. the sanctions in particular against the lawyers, saying that, look, these are frivolous arguments. you raised them in the preliminary injunction and i rejected them. you went up to appeal, i was affirmed and raised them again in the dismissal motion. i rejected them emphatically, he says. went up to appeal, i was affirmed, and now you do it a third time? yeah, you're going to get sanctioned. you can't just say, well, my client told me to make these frivolous arguments. you're supposed to be a line of defense against that. the sanctions against the lawyers in particular really stood out to me beyond just the blatant lies that were outlined in this order. >> how unusual is that? we've seen trump lawyers get into trouble. some are indicted. some are being financially sanctioned. how unusual is that in new york court? >> very unusual. it's unusual to try three times to raise arguments the judge told you was frivolous. it's not clear what they were trying to accomplish. you're not going to get the third bite at the apple and all of a sudden convince the court otherwise. and the judge also said, you're misstating the law. there's not only law of the case, but precedent that you are just blatantly ignoring. it's bad lawyering. then you have the statements from the defense attorneys, which are continuing to say the same things, the same -- make the same arguments. so even after being sanctioned they're at it in the court of public opinion as well. it's outrageous behavior. >> i want to play more of the younger trump, because this was so important to his public life, to his tv show, and that was the onramp to legal politics and everything else we've lived through. but this personiied what he said was possible, that it was a good thing, and that it worked financially. the judge finding no, this was a bit more of a con. here he is with oprah. >> i think i've done a good job in new york and i've done a charitable job in a sense. trump tower's become such a success, and as you and i were discussing it's become the number one attraction in new york, trump tower. i think people recognize it. new york people are really proud of it. >> barbara? >> new york people proud of it? at the time they were. he hyped it up. i have to hand it, he is the best pr person i ever met in my life. so, he did get the buzz going and everything, but it was amusing to see how -- you know, we would do the offering plan, and he'd talk about the marble in the bathroom. it wasn't, it was a conglomerate. everything was basically not real or a lie. >> and knowing him and the family, how long his sons take this? there is a great kind of attitude or arrogance about nothing ever applying to them, as we've documented. that's bluster. he did ultimately sit down for the deposition because he had to. that cuts against the bluster he's had in business and fans and followers. lawyers in court today going, wait a minute, depending how this goes they may lose the places they live. >> i think it's hisser theicle the houses are owned by llcs. there's a reason for, that it's all about money. they're probably somewhat stunned, but that has been going on for years and years. and they're so terrified of their father that they're not going to do anything about it. i think they're probably just waiting. >> yeah, just wait it out. >> and scared to death. >> yeah. we have more of the war words the judge used. here you have a judge who's an expert who understands the difference between what i mentioned earlier, puffing, exaggeration -- hey, this is the best neighborhood in new york. you are allowed to say that and the consumer has to decide what best means. you're not allowed to say that it's in the wrong neighborhood or it's a different floor or it's double the size or the valuation is wrong. so we have this word cloud softistry, untenable, false, rehashed, flawed. my question goes to the appeals process. is this a ruling that's strong and harder to overturn, or is it so intense that an appeals judge might look at this and say, did this judge get overly worked up? >> i think again he showed so many examples of just blatant lie, and i think the fact that there is the level of detail in this opinion, you know, justifies the response that the judge has, which is frustration that, you know, not only are there the lies there, but there's the repeated lies, the continuing to try and pedal these stories. the examples of trump tower being -- you know, this is objective. i know what i'm seeing. you're saying it's 30,000 square feet in your statement of financial condition it's actually 10,000. and that is a lie. it's not subjective. so he points out example after example where you have these just grossly inflated assets and saying, don't tell me that this is something that's subjective. i know what i see. >> right, and you're speaking to the fact that because it's factual it could hold, and if it holds there's a lot of punishment coming your way. nice to see you here in the city. coming up, the big lebowski. coming up, the taylor swift effect. i got some words for the swifties out there. first, you might have seen us previewing it on the box. this is going an interesting one. the best selling journalist michael wolff from the trump era to his murdoch book, michael wolff live next. ... so you only pay for what you need. that's my boy. ♪ stay off the freeways! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ i'm adding downy unstopables to my wash now. i'll be smelling fresh all day long. 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like roger ailes and bill o'reilly, the ousting am lowe dobbs and tucker carlson amid a $787 million defamation lawsuit which was accountability for blatant lies toll on behalf of trump and his 2020 loss because he snubs them right now. you can see there's a lot going on. and then fox's chair stepping back last week. a real-life development in what's sometimes felt like a success saga. >> the explosive lawsuit between fox news and dominion voting systems. >> dominion argued fox endorsed and broadcast a series of false lies about dominion. >> you said there may have been kickbacks to some people who accepted the dominion software. >> a closer look at the real-life second session at fox and news corp. >> it's my [ bleep ] company. you are a [ bleep ] nobody. >> let's call it. >> on what precedent, by what authority? >> by the power of me, the ceo. >> changing of the guard tat one of the big interest most influential companies in the world. >> rupert murdoch announcing his retirement today. >> at 92, murdoch says he will step aside. >> that's what's going on. there's a lot more to the story than an orderly transition. one of the most famous chroniclers of his and his impact on you, democracy, capitalism, has a brand new book out that grapples with this rise and fall and like any mortal, hisventual death. chael wolff is the rare author whose books can move millions of copies, and you may recall how much news he's made himself. >> the explosive tell-all book "fire and fury." >> the author inside the white house. >> michael wolff back with us, his new book "siege, trump under fire". >> michael wolff happens to be author of "landslide the final days of the white house." >> michael wolff, the author of "the fall, the end of the murdoch empire." >> and we're not doing it with zoom. we're live in the flesh. michael wolff is here. the book is if the can fall", out now with its own news hook. thanks for coming on "the beat." >> thank you for having me. it's great to see you. >> you were a writer who provoked great interest, sometimes some anger which is okay as long as it's true. >> okay? it's great. >> great in your view. let's start with the method odd you use. there's fox. we can look at what's on air. there's what they say on the corporate side. here's our orderly transition, and then there's other hidden stuff behind the scenes. why is it, do you believe, important for readers, for society to understand what's behind the scenes and that some of the people selling this product, according to your reporting, don't believe in all of it? >> i think you want to understand what's motivating people here, what is the real thing. is it -- you know, this is an interesting thing that people look at fox and criticize fox by watching and saying it's politics are bad, which is absolutely true, it tells lies, it's corrupt. but to really understand this, it's necessary to get behind and find out why people are doing this. and in some sense, the answer is very simple -- they're doing it to stay on the air. it's kind of -- it's a desperate atmosphere. it's run by ratings every ten minutes. they let you know, are you up? are you down? so everyone is -- everyone is there, white knuckled on, how do i get those ratings? and that has had over the past couple years basically one answer -- donald trump. and that's why it became basically, you know, after the 2016 election, it became the trump channel. in ways that i don't think we've ever seen the american media interact with american politics. i mean, it was an adjunct of the white house. people on the air at fox were in regular touch with the president of the united states. and when i say regular, i mean many times a day. sometimes hours a day. sean hannity within the white house was often thought of as the real chief of staff. we've never seen something like this. >> when you see the lengths they went a -- any channel can relate to money and profit. these are companies. but they overdid it to the tune of $787 million and more lawsuits pending. how did that strategic mistake happen? >> well, there's -- having outlined that what's going on there, then there's even another level, which is that the owner of fox news, one of the most influential and powerful people in our era hates donald trump. i mean, can't stand him, is repulsed by him. that's rupert murdoch. >> i'm going to let you finish. you report murdoch and we know from text tucker carlson at one point before being fired, both privately opposed trump. >> absolutely. but rupert murdoch -- carlson was just the employee doing what he had to do. rupert murdoch owns the place, so he could have at any time said no. but the question is, could he have? most recently over the past little more than a year, he actually decided to say no, and his answer was ron desantis. so that has not exactly worked out. it kind of becomes a tragic irony. he always wanted to make an american president, and he did. the joke was, that president was donald trump. now he wants to unmake him and it certainly appears he can't do that either. >> was tucker carlson fired because of the dominion lawsuit? >> absolutely. >> how do you prove that? >> well, you know, i've spoken to literally as many people as you can speak to, and it's very hard to prove the setup as a negative. no one was saying it's not part of the deal, it's a gentleman's agreement, or it's a pulley test. just -- >> but the leverage -- this is interesting. we reported on this at the time with what we could make sense of it. the leverage is you're already getting $787 million. but the dominion wants more than just money and they could probably, possibly get more at trial. so without a side deal to get rid of carlson, they might have taken him to trial? is that the theory? >> yeah, that's it. it's a kind of brinksmanship. would they have? would they? might they? wasn't even that, it was literally they had to avoid -- rupert murdoch was the first witness, and everybody knew rupert could not get on the witness stand. >> that became clear. i want to read from your book. you say hannity had been offered as a sweetener in the deal, but tucker carlson, the ratings leader, the new demagogue was sweeter. >> does hannity know they were considering bargaining him out? >> sure. >> how does he feel about that. >> >> i'm sure he's grateful to have not been bargained out. one step ahead of the sheriff. one step ahead of the sheriff. so i'm sure he feels pretty good about it. how does he feel that they might have? well, you know, it's the television business. >> it is the television business. let's talk about the past. the past is powerful. writers, novelist, politicians, artists play a lot with the past and ailes who you've done a character study of and murdoch are intrigued by that. say, quote, the people who fox is for live in 1965 before the voting rights act. highly racially charged derogatory thing to say. the moment before the civil rights became the culture and political achievement of the age. how important is it in this story that that racial division and often racism is a direct part of their appeal to an older audience? >> i think it's very important, although they would not put it like that. they would put it like as though this is the culture these people, anybody significant -- there was somebody who said -- i can't remember who, but it was that fox discovered an unserved niche audience, and that niche turned out to be half the country. >> i would say 48%, but yes. >> you live the way you want to live. you're living this reality. these people are living another reality. and we can program to that. >> yeah. it's fascinating. we've given you time for your book, your perspective, and your record. i do want to say what fox is saying. that's part of the reporting. they're coming right at it and saying, the fact that this author's book -- your books are, quote, spoof by "snl," is all we need to know, and they're referring to fred armisen's rendition. let's get your response. this was mr. armisen. >> the sensational new book "fire and fury". joining us is the author michael wolff. >> there have been several errors pointed out in this book already. do you take responsibility for those. >> look, you read it right? >> yeah, of course. >> and you liked it? you had fun? >> yeah. >> yeah. >> what's the problem? you got the gist so shut up. >> even the stuff that's not true, it's true. >> you know, the interesting thing to also point out is both fred and i actually look like rupert murdoch. >> you could argue that. their rebuttal is, here's a joke, and the joke is, you don't really tell the truth. their rebuttal is an argument that it's somehow entertainment and not accurate. >> of course their rebuttal is to cite someone's joke about this, so no one is serious here. this is -- this is a piece of comedy, which is done because a that book sold so many copies and became a cultural event in itself. so, what fox seems to be saying is we should not touch -- we should not trust michael wolff because he's such a success. >> it was a success, and i think our viewers who follow the news will remember that -- >> not to mention -- >> when they say it's inaccurate, you say -- >> it's absolutely accurate. i wouldn't have written it otherwise. it is a -- you know, it is sook rat that i predicted the end of fox and days before the book came out, rupert murdoch left the stage. >> and i'm running over on time, but have you heard much from any of your sources in that fox universe since the book's come out? >> yes, and actually tomorrow night i have been invited to a -- to a murdoch party, so we'll see who shows up. >> a murdoch party involves how many murdochs? >> we don't know. it's a murdoch circle party, so we'll see what happens. >> very interesting. we appreciate you taking all the questions. the book is chocked full of details and sourcing that's interesting. appreciate you coming on "the beat." >> thank you so much. >> absolutely. michael wolff, we appreciate it. come up, republican strife over the shutdown, or shutdown theater? republicans attacking republicans. first, coming up for the swifties, the taylor swift moment we're in. it's about culture, politics and so much more. >> take this -- republicans fell in love with this thing and now they can't stop talk about how much they hate it. it's like we're trapped in a taylor swift album. why choose between a longer life or quality of life? you deserve both. and with kisqali, a treatment for people with metastatic breast cancer, you can have both. kisqali is a pill that, when taken with an aromatase inhibitor is the only treatment of its kind shown to both help people live longer and improve or preserve quality of life. because you shouldn't have to sacrifice one for the other. kisqali can cause lung problems, or an abnormal heartbeat, which can lead to death. it can cause serious skin reactions, liver problems and low white blood cell counts that may 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alleged corporate monopolies and passionate fans and whether the government could try to enforce fairness. >> the leenls of fans as well as army of ticket brokers overwhelmed ticket master systems. a taylor swift may have been an anomaly, it exposed the ugly underbelly of the industry. >> junk tees are just out of control. you don't just have to have been interested in buying taylor swift tickets. >> the boss and swift act of 2023 is the single most pro-fan and pro-competition ticketing legislation. >> there you have it. lawmakers trying to cast themselves, as the witness said there, as pro-fan in passing laws that might protect fans against the big corporate interests. swifties are some of the most passionate and powerful fans out there from music and culture to internet life to even sometimes politics, where shift has been advocating positions for women's rights and against donald trump. as for concerts, swift's current tour is like an international movement or a startup company unto itself, literally. demand overwhelming tket master and stadiums. an estimated $5 billion swifty impact on the economy, and she's got her own move from the tour coming. we're talking about numbers that outstrip production of entire nations. it makes sense when you realize swift built a fan base in the many hundreds of millions. that's larger than the populations of many countries. and this movement or group of fans is united around very specific things. of course swift's artistry and talent, but also a bundle of issues that she has come to represent, that she has evolved her power and reach over time. while we're not going to encapsulate all of it in this newscast, some of those issues include authentic emotional passion, outspoken feminism, a fierce rejection of the boxes and limits that society tries to put on artists, and specifically on many women. and a willingness to clash with stereotypes and these corporate systems. in fact, today's congressional scrutiny of ticket master comes amidst taylor's larger battles with streaming companies. she famously and pretty politely took on apple and won, or her infamous clash with investor who is bought up her music. swift arguing against the capitalist precedents even if they were technically legal, because sometimes what's legal is still unfair. she famously recorded her tracks to try to empower fans to basically vote, make their own choice about which legal systems they wanted to be a part of. swift releasing six new and rerecorded albums since 2020 alone. today's hearing like this weekend's nfl game marks a taylor moment. but if you have been paying attention, there have been so many taylor moments ty might be building into days or years of taylor influence. while politics isn't the starting point, taylor swift's civic outreach to 50 million followers online has tangibly spiked voter registration, and he's driving new headlines with her unexpected appearance at this nfl game this weekend. you probably heard about, that cheering on kansas city chief's travis kelce. there is one video of them that has over 16 million views and, some would argue it's not the most fascinating piece of tape, but it represents something larger. the attention's crossed over. sales of his jersey spiking. even tv ratings, which are already pretty high for the games went up, including among women viewers. now, you might say, okay, ari, that's all really interesting and it sounds like everybody agrees. almost. amidst this interest, which is overwhelmingly positive, and as i showed you, much of it is about larger themes, standing up poor people they feel positively and share in and a powerful female voice, that scares some people. certain people on the right to see this power, the movement, the civic reach, see that they went for biden and they're trying to nitpick and find anything somehow wrong with an otherwise positive moment of american football unity. >> she's been on social media a lot. now you're thinking, okay, we all have to reject thor to vote. we're all suddenly democrats. >> at one point she yells the f bomb. i don't know if i could do that in front of my husband's mom. >> i don't care. >> the question, is what will break his heart first, his new relationship with taylor swift first or the covid shot? >> i think the commissioner set this up. >> this is what it looks like when you are really afraid of someone but you have a platform and you have to come up with made up misrepresentations to try to turn everything upside down. what you just saw was a bunch of delay, freakout, and the meltdown went down on fox news and other right wing broadcasts against what? southern music, pop music, football, people enjoying football. what is the beef? the beef is the fear of this power. on a station that talks so much about how they think they represent the only real america when in fact they look very, very out of touch right now with everything i just showed you, with an obvious political agenda, because taylor is about empowering people and getting religion stered, they need to attack her no matter what. they are out of step with where everyone else in real mainstream culture is. take a look. >> how about more of taylor swift and travis kelce? >> can't get enough. >> she puts on an epic, epic, epic show. >> did you see her? you can see why. it is a production like no other. >> does it feel like swift mania is never ending? >> yes, and it shouldn't end ever. >> taylor mania may not end. it could provide education, culture, civil, political, to many people. best as we can tell, when it comes to the right-wing haters, i think she already forgot they exist. we want to welcome aaron gloria ryan. welcome back, aaron. your thoughts on all of this? >> ari, sounds like you're quite a swifty yourself base odd than wind up. sounds very swiftian. have you been to an eras tour show yet? >> i have not. i will honest, i am going to go to the film, which i feel like is an affordable way to tap in. i listen to taylor swift. but also we're objective journalists here on "the beat," erin. >> of course. well, here's something that i think is super interesting about the right wing backlash to taylor swift. there's a couple things going on here. first of all, nobody is scarier to republicans or right wingers than the american political system than young women, than taylor swift's demographic. it's the scariest demographic to them. because if they are motivated to vote and care about the same things taylor cares about, like you mentioned, that's not very good for them. that's not very good for them at all. second of all, i think part of the freakout is occurring for the same reason that we saw the same people freaking out about the barbie movie just a couple months ago, and that's to chase clout. taylor swift is the biggest celebrity in the country right now, if not the world. i think more people would freak out about taylor swift showing up anywhere than anybody else, including former president obama. she's a huge celebrity. she means a lot to a lot of people day-to-day. she's meant a lot to a lot of people for a long time, and to try to engage or get in a fight with taylor is a way for somebody that's less popular to get some attention on themselves. fox news, i got to say, less popular than taylor swift right now. >> i think that's all fair, and you touched on the feminism and the double standards that exist around that conversation of barbie, taylor, and other spaces. what does it mean to have a woman like this who is -- she excites a lot of people, period, but also explicitly a woman who's about empowering women. i mentioned the populist movement. taylor makes a lot of money, but didn't have to step the way she has. congress saying, wait a minute, people and young people in this economy have to have some protection against that kind of avarice, which as best i can observe, is something a lot of people agree with her on. >> yeah, i mean, taylor swift could take her billion dollars plus or however much she's going to break from the record breaking tour and live in a cast and not do anything to help anybody, but she's which hassing to use her power and clout. she's got $272 million followers on instagram and choosing to use her power and clout and how much people passionately care about her. she's using that to do good. i think that's a good reflection on her. i would prefer if she flew private a little bit less, just as a political progressive. but, you know, she's doing more than she needs to do, and i think people see that and appreciate it. because her relationship with her fans is very parasocial. she talks directly to them, writes songs about experiences that feel universal, even though she is a massive star, a massive celebrity, she's able to write about things in a way that feels universal. her fans see her giving back. >> as an artist, even amidst all of her life, there is a feeling of what i call that passion or that truth that connects with so many people, and she's clearly adept at the mediums of the day. you said something important -- we deal with this sometimes with tv is a one-way medium. you and i are talking. no one else can get in. every which way medium, artist who is do that don't seem out of touch if they do it well. some of those folks we saw earlier might be out of touch if they don't understand they're feel like the fake populist on the outside hating on what? football. >> you're the weirdos if you're hating on taylor swift and football. you're not representing anything real or mainstream. you are absolutely the weirdo. >> erin gloria ryan. thank you so much for joining us. >> thank you. >> yeah, see you again. when we come back, the shutdown the "the big lebowski." " (all) ♪ toooo youuuuu! ♪ (sean) i wish for the amazing new iphone 15 pro! (jason) sean! do you mean this one - the one with titanium? (sean) no way i can trade this busted up thing for one. (jason) maybe stealing wishes from the birthday boy is not your best plan -- switch to verizon and trade in any iphone and get the new iphone 15 pro on them. (sean) what!? (jason) yup, and on an amazing network (sean) and i don't have to ruin anymore birthday parties! (jason) yeah, that ship has sailed... let's go get you the iphone. here we go, come on hon. (vo) trade in any iphone in any condition for a new iphone 15 pro on us. only on verizon. from pep in their step to shine in their coats, when people switch their dog's food to the farmer's dog, the effects can seem like magic. but there's no magic involved. (dog bark) it's just smarter, healthier pet food. it's amazing what real food can do. they kept saying they believe in nothing. >> ani list? >> you remember the big lebowski, well, that's back in the conversation because republicans are fighting each other over whether they shut down politics. take former speaker paul ryan, once the right wing conservative oi, saying his party has become, quote, nihilism. we look like fools. we look like we c't govern. the shutdown could jeopardize pay for millions of members of the u.s. military and continue to fund the impeachment. republicans jordan and comer say their staff is so essential they must continue finding a reason to impeach biden even while others sacrifice if the shutdown kicks in this weekend. now, historically these things don't work out very well for the nation, which ends up actually not saving money through shutdowns. we have covered that or politically. and don't take anybody's word for it, except, well, one of the longest serving republicans, mitch mcconnell, who says shut downs are not effective politics. republicans would get 0 if they go forward with this standoff against biden this weekend. now i want to share some programming notes with you as well. you may have heard about this, rachel is leading special gop debate analysis tonight at 11:00 p.m. eastern. watch the debate and then see special or keep it locked on msnbc, skip the debate and have rachel and our team walk you through the key points. we'll all be together. keep it locked here and i'll see you then. 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