search his mar-a-lago estate if trump continued to refuse to hand over classified documents. we begin tonight with the first televised hearing in fani willis' criminal case against former president trump in georgia. i'm jason johnson in tonight for joy reid. the trial will be televised and is coming very soon. today, we have a taste of what's to come. fulton county superior court judge scott mcafee said he would allow kenneth chesebro to sever his case from sidney powell. chesebro and powell are among the 19 defendants in the georgia racketeering case. they have both asked for speedy trials. chesebro is accused of being the, quote, architect of the trump elector scheme while sidney powell is facing a slew of charges that include an effort to improperly access voting machines in rural coffee county, georgia. the defendant said their cases were different and they wanted to be tried separately. prosecutor's response, that ain't the way this works. >> so we've heard a lot from both defendants about they didn't know the other people. they were located thousands of miles apart. they didn't know the other parts of the conspiracy were going on. but the case law is clear, that that does not matter. of course, any time a person enters into a conspiracy they are liable for all of the acts of all of their coconspirators. that's it. evidence against one is evidence against all. >> the prosecutor also reminded the court who this case is really about. >> part of this rico conspiracy involves victims. there are victims in this case that were targeted by members of the enterprise and their lives were turned upside down. and that's an important part of this case. having those people come and testify multiple times over and over would both inconvenience but more importantly traumatize them. >> mack afee denied the defendant's request, meaning chesebro and powell will stand trial together beginning on october 23rd. the judge is yet to schedule a date for the other 17 co-defendants including donald trump. earlier in the hearing, a prosecutor told mcafee that holding a joint trial for trump and the other defendants would take four months to complete. with testimony from potentially more than 150 witnesses. that time line doesn't account for jury selection. all 19 defendants charged in the fulton county case including trump have pleaded not guilty and waived their right to an in-person arraignment which had been scheduled for today. this marks the fourth time that trump formally denied charges this year. the judge said he was, quote, very skeptical of fulton county doern fani willis' plan to put all 19 defendantings including trump next month. the plan seemed, quote, a bit unrealistic giving the complex, legal and practical issues and the sprawling case. he would consider additional arguments. joining me now to discuss all of this is katie phang, greg bluesteen and david jolly, former republican congressman from florida who is no longer affiliated with that party. katie phang, we're going to start with you. you're down there in atlanta. you know, the judge is basically saying, hey, i appreciate the effort. i don't think you're going to be able to do this. what are some of the potential roadblocks here? i think it's reasonable to say that trying 17 people at the same time could be tough. what are the concerns from a legal standpoint about that? does he feel that the case would get jumbled? does he feel that people who are guilty would end up getting off? what's the real concern there? >> reporter: yeah. so jason, that's a real good question and actually didn't get that deep. it was kind of interesting exchange that was happening between judge scott mcafee at the state of georgia as well as defense attorneys for kenneth chesebro and sidney powell. it was kind of who is going to blink first? i got to give credit to da fani willis' team put the best of the best that she could in front of judge today to basically say, judge, we're ready to go. we're prepared to do all 19 defendants at one time with more than 150 witnesses. it will take about four months, not including jury selection. but the concerns that judge mcafee raised were all valid ones and ran the gamut from logistical concerns. how do i practically fit 19 defendants in one courtroom, all of their counsel and go through the process of not only pretrial motions, having them set for hearing, litigating them, getting rulings and going through jury selection. then went to the point of, you know, if there's not enough prejudice each of these defendants is facing that would merit the idea they had to be tried on their own, i do buy into this idea we'll do 19 defendants at one time? what happens to the defendants? are they still there. have they gone to federal court and come back. there's a lot that judge mcafee clearly had contemplated before today's hearing. the fact he ruled immediately there the bench was a welcome thing. we always want to have a swift ruling from a judge, but we are waiting to hear the ultimate disposition which is, will it be one trial, 19 defendants or are we going to see two different trial settings. one on october 23rd for kenneth chesebro and sidney powell and one way down the road for the other 17 defendants. >> i want to follow up on this. would it be possible that there would be a trial where, you know, multiple defendants would be in se zooms and they would zoom in on the trial and they would have to lean out and speak to their legal counsel? does the legal counsel have to be there? just as a logistics matter, how could you try 17 people at once? >> reporter: well, they actually would all have to appear in person. the fulton county courthouse is open and back to business. so there are no zoom trials that are being actually conducted behind me in the courthouse. so, you literally have everybody in one courtroom. what would happen is you would have each of the lawyers -- and i kind of want to set this up for people because they're wondering exactly the machinations on this. each lawyer, jason, has the chance to not only question potential jurors but also be able to cross-examine the government's witnesses. 150 of them. can you imagine. each of them had the chance to get up and do cross-examination. it literally would last way longer than four months. judge mcafee told the state, be careful what you wish for. i know you're ready to go but there's a lot of stuff you need to brief. so i want you to do it by next week tuesday because you need to answer some of these questions before i set a trial. >> greg, fani willis filed late today, put in some motions. interesting things here i want to get your thoughts on. in the motion she said based on the fulton county grand juries it is foreseeable they should be docked should their names be made available to the public. it would be undoubtedly be placed in jeopardy. basically what we're hearing from da willis, greg, is that there are cameras in the courtroom, but due efforts are made to keep these jurors anonymous and safe. is that one of the major concerns that people are thinking of downtown? is it one of those things where it's like, okay, that's part of it. we still think -- will they have to be sequestered. what are the thoughts about this idea of how to keep jurors safe? >> certainly, jason. there's a century old case law in georgia that allows the public dissemination of the names of special grand juries and grand jurors. we saw the names of the grand jurors who successfully indicted president trump and 18 were put on a russian hosted website, all over social media. they are being targeted by far right conspiracy theorist websites. now that fani willis disclosed that she, too, has been targeted on this same russian-hosted web server. she is using that as an example why she wants the judge to restrict the publization of the potential jurors when they get to that stage in this trial. >> greg, we talked about this in the past about the need for security once this trial actually begins, in october. we don't know if separate or together trials. is there any effort being made by governor kemp to make sure that jurors are safe? are private security people, are state security people, the gbi, who is making sure that these people are safe when they go home or might we see a situation where every juror in this case ends up being sequestered? >> yeah, the georgia state parol troll is one of the largest state agencies in the state. so we certainly saw the last few weeks a heavy security presence from state patrol officers. i imagine we'll see the same coordination going forward especially as this trial gets under way under heavy security. but remember, too, fulton county, the city of atlanta, they have enormous law enforcement agencies as well. so they have a number of officers at their disposal. >> david jolly, one of the things -- you're a lawyer. you understand these things. i watched enough legal shows to understand this, usually the corner boys, the small ended people, they will flip on the bigger guys, right? they're say, hey, i don't want to be involved one way or another. i have to ask you, do we think as we get closer to any of these trial dates that someone will flip? there's got to be somebody at a lower level who is like, i'm not going to jail for this. i'll flip on trump. do you think that's likely to happen or will it happen before october or after the trial begins? >> yes. statistically you are exactly right, jason. somebody is likely to say, hey, i would like to cooperate. if fani willis is willing to at this point. it also requires her to suggest she's doing that. there's a basic theory in criminal defense called prisoner's dilemma. you have multiple defendants logically if they all stick together, perhaps they have a good chance of defending themselves. but if one of them acts in self interest and turns on the other, obviously that person can save their own freedom. so who flips first becomes a bit of the dilemma and the question. yes, i would expect we see some of the lesser. but look, fani willis' made very clear today that every one of these 19 defendants is a peer. donald trump, yes, absolutely stands out among all of them. but he stands charged with the same statute that sidney powell does and chesebro and eastman and mark meadows and all of them now stand in equal stead. i think what's fascinating is if indeed we see two trials, like katie said, the judge today denied severance saying we're not going to sever chesebro and powell. it appears he might be willing to consider the class of defendants who want a speedy trial, chesebro and powell together, maybe eastman and the remaining ones down the road. that sets up where we might have a verdict, a conviction or an acquittal in that first case before the primary in the republican party for the presidential nomination and before donald trump's determination. and so does that change a political dynamic or narrative? perhaps. we just don't know. >> david, i want to go back to this. because i thought it was interesting you have chesebro and powell saying, hey, we want to be tried separately. we have different cases. one of the arguments that you hear sort of being floated already by some of these defense teams is like, hey, i never went to that county. i never had a conversation with this person. how can i be involved with this. to my ears, hey, look, i never met darth vader. you worked at the death star. you're still kind of responsible for this. how strong is that argument? how strong is the argument that i can't be part of a conspiracy if i didn't know the other conspirators on a regular basis? does that carry in weight in court. >> it was strong until the court ruled today. that was essentially the argument of chesebro and powell. never met the person. chesebro said i was doing legal briefs in an intellectual way and powell was tampering with voting machines in coffee county. clearly separate acts. however, they were charged under rico. what rico says is they were part of a common enterprise advancing a common scheme. they didn't have to do what the other one was doing nor did they have to coordinate if they were all supporting this enterprise. though today was somewhat of a procedural ruling on saying we are not going to sever, it showed a lot of the judge's approach to this. that approach is a willingness to access and give credence to the rico charge that allows the prosecutors to say, all 19 of these are in the same boat whether they met each other or not. >> katie, i want to flip to a national issue really quick. we just heard trump in the jean carol case, this is key, trump is liable for the defamation in the second e. jean carroll case. basically what's going to happen now is rather than having to go through heavier trials we're going to hear about sentencing and fines. what do you think the significance of this case? i thought the e. jean carroll case is not just another example of sort of trump's moral depravity but also one of the cases that we might get the quickest answer on that. what's the significance of this most recent ruling? >> reporter: yeah. as we know e. jean carroll went to a jury trial in may of 2023. got a verdict that basically said donald trump is a sexual abuser. and he is liable for defamation. a jury awarded her $5 million in damages. donald trump has taken that verdict up on appeal. if you will recall, jason, back in 2019 when donald trump was still the president of the united states, he defamed e. jean carroll by claiming that he didn't know her and he denied sexually assaulting her. that is the crux of this particular case that a federal judge in new york has said, you know what, based upon what the jury found in that trial that just happened a few months ago, as a matter of law, e. jean carroll does not have to carry her burden again to prove to a jury that donald trump defamed her. so we're just going to fast track it now straight to the damages part of this case. we're going to go to a trial in january. e. jean will put on a case as to how much she has been damaged. and a jury can award her, to its discretion, 0 to whatever amount of money that it wants. now, remember, also, there's punitive damages that are at play here. there was punitives awarded to e. jean a few months ago. what's also important is that donald trump was trying to say, you know, e. jean carroll, she got some money. so whatever she gets in january from me it's got to be a set-off from what the award ends up being. the judge said no dice. there's nothing that prohibits from e. jean carroll from being able to get more money. the biggest consequence of this ruling is the following, it goes to show that donald trump is a proven liar. when you have this many criminal cases pending, and your credibility as a criminal defendant may come into play, either because other defendants say you have done something or you yourself are crazy enough to take the stand which donald trump says he's willing to do, if you already have findings that he's a liar, may not be admissible in your criminal trial, trust me in the court of public opinion, potential juror pool they know he's a liar. >> we see the record, trump. you ain't got to lie. thank you, guys, for starting us up on "the reidout." up next, brand new reporting on another one of trump's alleged crimes. the classified documents case. 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because i don't know if that's a violation. i don't know if that's something that could be used in other sorts of indictments. where does this play? >> so, we know that jack smith was able to get this testimony from evan corcoran. he was trump's lawyer. typically the attorney/client privilege would protect all of their communications, but a federal judge ruled that donald trump tried to use corcoran his own lawyer to further a criminal scheme. for that reason the judge allowed the privilege between the attorney and the client to be breached. and thus jack smith has access to this gold mine of evidence. jason, this is not a typical days when the prosecutor has very incriminating evidence from the defendant's own defense lawyer. it's not only incriminating, it's especially credible. >> yeah. i mean, this is different than sort of, you know, you catch a cheating spouse hand me your phone. this is a guy's lawyer. he's obviously taking contemporaneous notes of the things that he has. you know, how unprecedented is this? i've not heard of something like this where the defense attorney is basically like, yeah, take my phone because this guy tried to get me involved in a criminal conspiracy. >> especially when you think about the evidence that that phone contained. extraordinarily incriminating remarks from trump. he said at one point i don't want anybody looking through my boxes. and he specifically said to his lawyer, i don't want you looking through the boxes. he said, what happens if we just say that we don't have any documents? jason, that's not a smoking gun. that's almost a confession. again, this is vital to the government's case for both the espionage charge and the obstruction charge related to the classified documents. they have to prove criminal intent. trump's willful state of mind that he knew that he was breaking the law. all of this evidence corroborates that. >> so, help me out here because what is the line at which a lawyer would potentially do something like this because, hey, you're talking to our client. let's say it's a criminal trial. i could be talking to my client. if we could just make the cops disappear, something like that. people say things attorney/client. how far does it have to go for the attorney to say, hey, i can't have this conversation anymore or anything you have to say at this point, i have to turn over. what's that line generalfully a legal case. >> when corcoran was taking these contemporaneous notes. one, he was being a good defense attorney. he was going to have a lot of meetings with trump. trump famously says different things depending on the time of day it is. so he just wanted a record. the other thing for any trump lawyer, cy butt. cover your butt because he knows what kind of client this is. for example, corcoran told trump. i don't care what you say. if i attest to the court that i've looked for the documents, i'm going to look in that storage room which is where trump told him all of the documents were. we now know within that time trump directed two of his employees to move that stuff out of the storage room, which is why the indictment charges that trump knowing and intentionally lied not only to the fbi, but to his own lawyer evan corcoran. check this out. if it couldn't get any more wild, corcoran is likely to be a witness in the prosecution for the mar-a-lago case, he's still defending trump in the january 6th prosecution. >> yeah. this is interesting. i can't imagine a more ridiculous example of the worst client for anybody to have one way or another. and i have to ask you, i always think this is important from a legal standpoint, you know, just put yourself in a lawyer's brain. i get there's money involved. but why would anyone -- trump is going to get other lawyers. he burns through lawyers all the time. why does anyone want to work with a guy who seems like he will get you in trouble. >> everybody who is accused has the right to an excellent defense lawyer. it's good news that finally trump has some lawyers who know what they're doing. defense attorneys, they like risk. they like problematic clients. but they don't like clients who act against their own interest. so i think the biggest problem that trump's defense team will have with him is his constantly going on tv and blabbing which is not only a violation of the orders of the judges in the four cases which he's prosecuted. it's just not in his best interest. so you have a client who's trying to go to jail, it looks like. >> like he's committed to screwing up his own case. speaking of a case where no one screwed up. i think justice was done. we got former proud boys leader enrique tarrio got 22 years for his part in fact january 6th insurrection. now look, this is not something that saddens most americans who are concerned about democracy. enrique tarrio had a long history of working with the proud boys. they're dangerous. he got a longer sentence than almost anybody else. what do you think is -- is that now setting a precedent, right? if he gets 22 years, does that mean as these cases go further up the ladder, because he's just a foot soldier. he is a pawn. does this mean that if a member of congress or higher level people that they're likely to get at least 22 years? or is this something that you think was just specific to him sort of proud boy's organization. >> so not legally significant in the sense that when a judge sentences someone she is not created any legal precedent. that's not binding the judge in other sentences. but judges do like what's called proportionality. they like to treat similar cases alike. when someone is more culpable they want that person to be punished more. by the end of this year, 2,000 people will have been prosecuted in relation to january 6th. the vast majority, the foot soldiers, the so-called maga tourists showed up at the capitol, can't say just, because what they did was extraordinary. but moving up the chain. so, enrique tarrio, maybe not line a line soldier, maybe more like an officer, but not a general. the generals we know are people like giuliani, john eastman, sidney powell and donald trump. and certainly a judge will have to think in sentencing any of those people can i really give the people who organized finance and let this insurrection less time than i give the people who just carried out their criminal will. >> paul butler, i love talking to you because i always feel smarter. thank you so much for joining us tonight on "the reidout." coming up, an alarming criminal case out of georgia. some are calling it anti-democratic, that includes me. 61 activists have been indicted on rico charges? yes, rico charges connected to their attempt to put a stop to the construction of a colossal police training facility, better known as cop city. more details next on "the reidout" with jason johnson. when i was diagnosed with h-i-v, i didn't know who i would be. but here i am... being me. keep being you... and ask your healthcare provider about the number one prescribed h-i-v treatment, biktarvy. biktarvy is a complete, one-pill, once-a-day treatment used for h-i-v in many people whether you're 18 or 80. with one small pill, biktarvy fights h-i-v to help you get to undetectable—and stay there whether you're just starting or replacing your current treatment. research shows that taking h-i-v treatment as prescribed and getting to and staying undetectable prevents transmitting h-i-v through sex. serious side effects can occur, including kidney problems and kidney failure. rare, life-threatening side effects include a buildup of lactic acid and liver problems. do not take biktarvy if you take dofetilide or rifampin. tell your healthcare provider about all the medicines and supplements you take, if you are pregnant or breastfeeding, or if you have kidney or liver problems, including hepatitis. if you have hepatitis b do not stop taking biktarvy without talking to your healthcare provider. common side effects were diarrhea, nausea, and headache. no matter where life takes you, biktarvy can go with you. talk to your healthcare provider today. socks, underwear and t-shirts are the most requested items in homeless shelters. bombas was founded to help. so for everyone you buy, we donate one. one purchased. one donated. it's a tangible act of kindness for those who need it most. distributed by 3500. giving partners across all 50 states. and with 75 million donations and counting, the impact is real. meet the team... behind the team. the coach. the manager. and the snack dad. all using chase to keep up with their finances. the coach helps save goals here, because she saved for soccer camp there. anddd check this out... the manager deposited a check. magic. and the snack dad? he's getting paid back. orange slicesss. because this team all has chase. smart bankers. convenient tools. one bank with the power of both. chase. make more of what's yours. david: as we start a new school year, there's something new happening in california's public schools. they're called community schools. leslie: it really is shared leadership with families, students, educators, and communities. jessie: i feel like we're really valued as partners. david: it's a more innovative, holistic approach. grant: in addition to academic services, we look at serving the whole family. narrator: wellness centers, food pantries, and parental education. jessie: they're already making a difference. david: california's community schools: reimagining public education. georgia attorney general chris carr is attempting to copy and paste same rico law used to charge donald trump to punish protesters battling police militarization. on tuesday, 61 people were indicted on racketeering charges over protests against construction of a massive public safety training center opponents call cop city. atlanta journal constitution confirmed the same grand jury that indicted trump and his allies on rico charges was also involved in this case. the protesters in a majority of local residents oppose the 85 acre facility in a forest outside atlanta in neighboring dekalb county. among their concerns, the facility will cost $90 million. it will massive environmental impact. and the potential for overpolicing in metro atlanta. some of the people indicted yesterday already faced charges related to the protests. including three activists charged with money laundering for running a bail fund. three charged with felony intimidation for distributing flyers with the names of police officers allegedly involved in the killing of a protester. and more than three dozen people facing domestic terrorism charges including an attorney who is acting as a legal observer. joining me now to discuss is christopher bruce, policy director for the aclu of georgia and jack crosby, correspondent for rolling stone. jack, i'll start with you. this is amazing to me in all the worst possible ways. tell us a little bit about what is going on here. is this just intimidation? or does this attorney really think they're going to be able to successfully get a bunch of protesters thrown in jail for racketeering? >> i mean, in certain cases he already has. you know, this attorney general and the georgia bureau of investigations have been arresting protesters throughout this movement. and putting them in jail for long periods of time in atlanta's metropolitan detention facility, which is known as one of the worst sort of temporary prisons in the world. and it doesn't really matter to him, i think, whether or not all of these charges stick. what charges stick. because this is the strategy that they said. if you're connected to this movement whatsoever and you're arrested for basically any crime that could even conceivably be linked to thinking about this movement, you're going to be slapped with some of the most brutal, legal accusations that the state can level against you. >> christopher, i want to sort of move back a bit from not just sort of rico charges against protesters, but let's talk about this whole cop city situation to begin with. what you have is this is a $90 million police training facility. even though the metro police have another training facility in macon an hour or two away. the nonprofit atlanta foundation is working to raise millions of dollars. the foundation board is filled with executives like delta, waffle house, the home depot, wells fargo and u.p.s. among others. it reads like a who's who of corporate atlanta. we're talking about land owned by city of atlanta but being leased to this private foundation. how does this private foundation have access to this sort of government resources and is this atlanta police foundation putting pressure on government apparatus to go after protesters? >> jason, first, thanks for having me. thank you for bringing that up because a lot of these corporations are funding millions of dollars to build a facility instead of investing into the communities which we know is what really leads to public safety increasing in the state. so, yes, not only are these corporations doing this, a lot of these people who run these corporations, either do not live in the city of atlanta or don't even live in the state of georgia at all. so, what you're talking about is the atlanta police foundation putting pressure on corporations could be the other way around. it could be the corporations putting pressure on the atlanta police foundation to increase this. like you said before, there are other jurisdictions where this is happening. the atlanta police department can train. they have been training. they've been training in other places everywhere else. do they need an 84 acre facility to do this known as cop city? no, they don't. and i believe there's over 100,000 people who have signed signatures to mark that. that's what the city of atlanta is going to have to deal with in a referendum coming soon. >> jack, i want to talk about this referendum. this is what's interesting. a lot of times if you have local politicians, right, and there's something they want to push through, but they try to wiggle out of any responsibility, oh, we'll have a referendum but have the worst wording possible, say like do you not not want me to sort of kind of make this thing happen in a way to sort of get the policies through. but what we're seeing right now is that voting rights activist, according to mother jones, are condemning the fact that the cop city referendum, the state is going to use signature checks and go line by line through these referendums in order to basically invalidate people who might stand against this voting center. first offer, talk a little bit about what this signature check might look like and, second, why would anyone want to put together a referendum and then make sure the referendum isn't reflective of the people? >> right. and this is sort of one step in what's been a pretty classic campaign by atlanta city officials and the people who support the cop city project to kind of slow down and keep public input out of this process entirely. this goes back to the very beginning, first proposals for cop city and the first time that this actually came before the city council vote in which there were 17 hours of public comment which, you know, activists combed through and found that vast majority of was against cop city. that vote still went through the city council. it's passed every single time. as far as these signatures being collected goes, this has also been waylayed at every possible opportunity. a federal judge had to rule last month that people who were not residents of the city of atlanta could still do some of the signature collecting duties. you obviously have activists who care about this case coming from all over georgia and across the country pound the pavement for this and collect signature. the signatures must be from atlanta city residents themselves because it's their tax dollars that may be going to fund this center. there shouldn't be something that says every activist has to prove they have an atlanta address to sign these signature. the verification process is sort of just another step in this. >> right. >> despite, you know, over 100,000 signatures collected they'll try to throw out as many as they can. >> quick question for you, bruce. we're running up against a break. is the major going to lose his job against this? he seems to be in agreement with this foundation to slide this thing through despite sort of the public disenchantment with it? what could be the political consequences in the next mayor's race? >> that is the question that's going into this. mayor dickens actually disagree about this. i'm against cop city. but i will respect that he is the mayor of atlanta. he was elected for that. compared to an attorney general like chris carr who is not only mentioned the 61 indictments but in that indictment, he mentions that the conspiracy happened during the george floyd's murder that happened 11 months before cop city was proposed in the first place. so, not only will there be ramifications in the city of atlanta, we can also look at the attorney general is looking at running for governor and is using this as a political ploy. >> right. we were definitely coming back to this story. thank you so much for joining us tonight on "the reidout." up next, wisconsin republicans seek to impeach a duly elected liberal justice on the state supreme court because they don't like her politics. the democratic party chair is calling it legislative coup. he joins me next on "the reidout." ns me next on "the reidout. i was told my small business wouldn't qualify for an erc tax refund. you should get a second opinion from innovation refunds at no upfront cost. sometimes you need a second opinion. all these walls gotta go! ah ah ah! i'd love a second opinion. take the first step to see if your small business qualifies. (♪♪) rsv can be a dangerous virus... [sneeze] ...for those 60 and older. it's not just a cold. and if you're 60 or older... ...you may be at increased risk of hospitalization... [coughing] ...from this highly... ...contagious virus. not all dangers come with warning labels. talk to your pharmacist or doctor... ...about getting vaccinated against rsv today. with powerful, easy-to-use tools, power e*trade makes complex trading easier. react to fast-moving markets with dynamic charting and a futures ladder that lets you place, flatten, or reverse orders so you won't miss an opportunity. e*trade from morgan stanley. in april, more than 1 million wisconsin voters packed a backed liberal supreme court nominee janet protasiewicz, she beat her challenger by a 11 point margin. fuelled by public restriction of limiting reproductivity rights. she took the bench in august with a series of important cases set to make their way to the court including the state's offensively gerrymandering maps, voting access almost immediately after her victory, republicans began floating the idea of impeaching protasiewicz, nullifying the will of the voters. today they gathered to discuss their options for impeaching her if she does not recuse herself from redistricting cases. they claim she can't be impartial because during her campaign she said that the current congressional maps are rigged to benefit one party, which is true. here is the thing, those statements do not meet the standard for impeachment or recusal. how do we know? well, right wing wisconsin supreme court justice rebecca bradley once compared abortion to slavery and the holocaust. we talked about that on this show. nobody impeached her for that. just yesterday state judiciary disciplinary panel rejected complaints about the comments from protasiewicz. but that doesn't really matter because republicans had their own unprecedented plan to impeach and block democratic governor from replacing her. how? they could vote to impeach the justice but not convict. little schoolhouse rock here. if impeached, she would have to immediately stop performing her duties as a judge effectively sidelining her without replacing her. leaving a deadlocked supreme court. and guess what, they've got the votes to do that because of a gerrymandering supermajority. see how these things connect? the threat of impeachment is being used by republicans all across the country. they want to remove fani willis and anita earls the state's only female black supreme court jus it is for speaking out about racial bias in the court. joining me now, ben wick ler, the chair of the democratic party of wisconsin he calls these taxes a legislative coup. he's not wrong. he joins me now. ben, thank you so much for this. look, this is insane. like i said, i had to go schoolhouse rock because a lot of intimate details to this. but i'm going to start with today. there was a meeting of republicans at the state house today. do you have any word as to what their conclusion was from this meeting? now that they're taking national heat, >> jason, thanks so much for covering this. this is a real constitutional crisis moment. as far as i can tell, there is no state anywhere where a sitting supreme court justice has been impeached on purely political grounds because the legislature didn't like what they thought that justice was going to do. so this could open pandora's box. we know republicans right now are trying to not say anything publicly, but we are also getting the vibes that a lot of republicans can feel in the pit of their stomach, that this is a bad idea. i am talking about secondhand conversations that are happening across the state. when you call your state legislator, if you are wisconsinites, you've got to make absolutely clear that you're against this. we might see republicans start to break ranks because they know that this is wrong. even if you are the furthest right wing or the farthest left or anywhere in between, if you just impeach people when you disagree with their politics, our whole constitutional order can fall apart in a flash. that is why we are asking everyone to go to defend justice.com, asking every wisconsinites to contact your legislators and come out publicly with their position, not behind closed doors. we need to shut this impeachment threat down and avert a constitutional catastrophe. >> at the state assembly you got 99 members. it only takes a simple majority to impeach someone. the republicans have a supermajority, 64 members. they could lose up to 12 assembly people. but there are 12 assembly republicans, and six senate republicans whose district voted for janet protasiewicz this spring. i use specifically targeting those six? i you saying, are those 12 and saying hey guys, it is gonna blow up in your faces soon, or is it sort of a general conversation that you're doing throughout the state on this is sort of a violation of the public will? >> right now, is a type to you, there are volunteers knocking on doors talking to voters who voted, we think, for janet protasiewicz this spring, to tell them your state senator, your state representative is considering nullifying your vote, closing out the election because they didn't like the results and asking voters to contact the legislators. this is a political disaster for republicans. it's going to backfire if they move forward with it. it will make the 2022 midterms in wisconsin's, we are where republicans lost the governor's race, look like child's play. republicans are playing with fire in a dynamite factory. they think that they this might be, i guess, their own way to lock in gerrymandered max maps that give them total control. even though it's referred immigrants and statewide elections, any republicans to back off and i think everyone across the political spectrum will celebrate if they do. we are talking to republicans whose districts went for janet, but we also, bear in mind, there are janet protasiewicz voters in every district. many people who had never voted before voted in the supreme court election this spring. republicans will lose them for life if they don't back off this immediately. >> ben, we have a minute left, but i have to ask you this. the democratic party of wisconsin has been a model. you guys have gone at it. you have been raising money, you have been organizing on the ground. you are winning the stay dry statewide races. what advice would you give to other democratic parties in places like north carolina and ohio who always seem to be playing catch up with these local issues? how have you been able to galvanize your voters in ways that state democratic parties in other places places haven't managed to do yet? >> they had new chairs in each of those states and they're doing the thing that i would advise anyone to do, which is to build a year-round grassroots organization, not wait until the fall of the even numbered election year. right now the people knocking on doors and their own neighborhoods across wisconsin, in republican districts, and they are people who have done that in the supreme court elections, two in the midterms, in 2020, and will do it again in 2024, with a year-round presence. that makes all the difference. that's what's gonna help, sharon brown will help us share in 2024. >> thank you, wisconsin democratic chair ben wake learn, for what you're doing, it's a model for the rest of the. cantore up next, a terrifying worrying from the u.n. on the climate crisis. we'll be right back. this is the reidout. is the reidout. meet arexvy. 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