Faces jim jordans deadline to submit documents about her case to congress. As we reported, she is now the target of an investigation by the republicanled house judiciary committee. On friday, the dea will finally release the Special Grand Jury report. Well georgia is just one of four pending criminal trials for trump, this campaign for president carries on. That has many people on both sides of the aisle, wondering if the 14th amendment can, and should be used to bar trump from running. Heres what former impeachment manager adam schiff said about that earlier today. The Section Three of them and it is pretty clear. If you engage in acts of insurrection or rebellion against the government, or you give aid and comfort to those who do, you are disqualified from running. It does not require that you be convicted of insurrection, it just requires that you have engaged in these acts. Its a disqualification from Holding Office again. It fits donald trump to 80. Joining me now, msnbc contributor and former watergate prosecutor, jill winebanks. Shes a cohost of the hashtag histories and laws podcast, and offer of the watergate girl. Also with me, nbc news justice reporter ryan reilly, and also, former republican congressman charlie dent of pennsylvania. Hes Executive Director of the Aspen Institute of congressional program. Thank you all for joining me. Jill, i want to start with you. Secretary of state have been some of the first to discuss the 14th amendment case against trump. But, michigans top Election Officials its not really in their hands. Take a listen. The Secretary Of State in various states may make international statements, either for qualification or against qualification, or within the balance of our authority. The ultimate decider in this case is going to be the courts, and really, the ultimate court to resolve this will be the United StatesSupreme Court. In that regard, we hope that decision, however it makes its way to the court, come sooner rather than later. Talk us through the legal pathways for barr and trump from the ballad. Julian, it seems like all of the federal people have waited on it, as well as laurence tribe, but also judge luttig and two professors. Theyve all said the 14th amendment, Section Three, means without any kind of convict mint or any indictment, that a person can be barred from running. The first step is the Secretary Of State, who says we can go on the ballot, who qualifies. So, they get to say, the first. But, that will be appealed by anybody who is barred from being on the ballad. So, will work its way up the court system, and ultimately, Johnson Benson is correct, itll make you to the Supreme Court you will have the final say on whether or not. But, it does seem like, 14th amendment is very clear. It was intended to keep any of the members from the confederacy from Holding Office if they held office, while they were engaged in the insurrection against the United States. So, i think its pretty clear that it does bar them, and im optimistic on the other hand. You can imagine what could happen if if you are on the other foot, there is going to be accusations without foundation of wrongdoing and democrats. The difference is, there is clear evidence here. That makes a difference to me. Ryan, the Fulton CountySpecial Grand Jury wrapped up nine months ago now. So, why are we just getting the reports now. When we get on friday, what are you going to be looking for . I think we have to see a Bigger Picture of what exactly theyre looking at, potentially some of the evidence they looked that, revealed there. But, we have a pretty good narrative speaking indictment already about what were talking about here. So it, could be wildes interesting, to see how the grandeur he went about that. A lot of this is in the public record, whether be in the danya Six Committee report, or whether it be in some of the indictment of come out thus far. So, a lot of this did happen in public aside from january 6th, a lot of this was documented by the people who are doing it themselves. So, i think that while there should be some interesting components to it, i dont know if thats necessarily point to shatter the narrative about what we already know, because the facts we already know have been enough for people to go forward with these complaints. So, i think the biggest thing this week will be the trial dates, and when theyre set for. That could really have some big implications going forward, especially if those cases go forward without trump, some of his codefendants. That gives trumps team a little bit of a preview what they could expect when his case went against trial. But, really kicking the can down the road is the overall strategy for the trump team here seeking to delay it much as possible in the federal case they were seeking. 2026 as their trial date. The ultimately didnt get it, and he will go to trial next federal case next year, barring any unfortunate circumstances. I think theyre going to be able to the ladies as much as possible, even though some of the quarterfinals are trying to step on the gas and get this to trial as quickly as they can. Charlie, lets go for Fulton County two year old stomping grounds of washington, d. C. , House Republicans are back to targeting trump prosecutors with their letter to d. A. Willis. In fact, Ways And Means chair jason smith now says the gop cannot allow a Budget Crisis to jeopardize their work. Take a listen to what he had to say. If funding is, if theres a government shutdown, that will stop all these investigation, thats absolutely the wrong thing. The American People deserve a government that is working for them, and we have to continue these investigations. How might this Shape Negotiations on capitol hill . Look, every year, at this time, around september 30th, the governor needs a resolution by september 30th, sometime in the middle of september. If congress fails, to pass the resolution, then the government shuts down. Really the congress then ceases to operates, other than trying to get the government reopened. So, itll be very difficult for congress to conduct any business, other than, theres a way to reopen the government. Whether its on joe biden or hunter biden or anything else, thats going to have to wait, until then reopen it. So, hopefully wont be a long shutdown, but if there is one, i suspect theyre going to be out of business in these investigations. Jill, speaking of revenge, trump has barely tone down his threats on social media. He recently demanded an eye for an eye on a Video Address to republicans. What would actually count as trump violating his bond in Fulton County . I think a lot of people want to know, what does he have to do to get into trouble here . Its not just Fulton County. Remember judge chutkan also warned him about threatening witnesses or codefendants. Im afraid that he is skirting the line. Obviously, any judge is going to be very careful before stopping a candidate for president from commenting on evidence. But, its when he gets to the threatening part, when he starts threatening his opponent, but that does not count as a trial. Its only when he threatens a witness or a codefendant that he will be violating it. Then, the question is, what can a judge do . Really, theres very little, except for incarcerating him, and judges are not going to want to do that. A fine is not going to work. If it hit he, wouldnt have a second Defamation Case against carroll, by cow rather, because after the first sentence, and the fine he get, you thought he wouldnt have repeated the same defamation. But, he did. So, money, which he is raising from people who are making small donations, its not his money thats paying the fine. Its their money. So, its not going to stop him, its going to take something more than a fighting to stop him from saying horrible things. Charlie, president ial candidate nikki haley today claims that trump is going to lose if he is convicted. Take a listen. The American People are not going to vote for a convicted criminal. The American People are going to vote for someone who can win the general election. I have faith in the American People. They know they need to do. This seems to be the central gamble in the republican race. Do you think trumps rivals are betting the right way . I think many of his rivals have made a fundamental miscalculation committed a Act Of Political missed practice by not going after trump, directly, when he was indicted for the first time in new york. We can have a great debate, whether that is going to be convicted any of these cases, but i think its fair to say as Chris Christie has said, this represents a terrible face of bad judgment, his judgment has been horrendous, his misconduct is quite clear. Even if it may not be criminal, paying the Hush Money Payment to a point star, recklessly handling classified material, Election Interference in georgia, and of course, all the issues surrounding january 6th. So, i think the right to point out that trump is too great a risk to be the republican nominee. I do not know thats going to set him with a lot of republicans when they see that this guy is a problem within the swing voters. I cant think of one independent voters whos gonna say, these indictments are terrific, i think a vote for that guy. I dont think its the way its going to work. Yes, the hardest element of the trump phase might think this is a terrific thing. Theyre fighting the system. But, i think a lot of swing voters around the country are going to be repulsed by a man thats been indicted for times and possibly convicted. I think hes probably right, at some point, this whole dynamic might change. Its not changing in the primary, but it will certainly change in general election. Well, lets hear the signals the beginning of more aggressiveness against trump from his rivals. Jill, thank you. Ryan and ben, i know youre sticking around. Still to come, the former leader of the proud boys is about to face a judge for sentencing. Wait until you hear how long prosecutors want to put him away for for his role in january 6th. Plus, President Biden has strayed from saying Donald Trumps name. Thats about the change, according to new reporting. Later, the Breaking News in nevada, Tens Of Thousands of stranded in the desert after Tarantula Rains cut off roads. One person has died. Well get an update from the scene. The first of richard louis, with the other big stories were tracking this hour, on msnbc. Thank you julian, a convicted Murder Whiskey from Pennsylvania State prison was spotted near surveillance video, that yellow was convicted of first degree murder and tends to live. He was in a mile and a half away from the philadelphia area prison. He is considered extremely dangerous, police urge those with information to call 911. A big shakeup on ukraines leadership, ukraines president says he will replace his defense minister. Alexei ragnick cough was under scrutiny for miss handling military contracts. This is the first major change to leadership since russias invasion, almost one and a half years ago. And, Jimmy Buffetts cause of death, now revealed, the margaritaville singersongwriter died after a fouryear battle with skin cancer. Obituary on his website says he continues to perform, well receiving treatment. Jimmy buffett was 76. While american voices for you more after this break. But to advance how the game is played. Nows the time to see what americas largest 5g network can do for your business. dad we got our Subaru Forester wilderness nows the time to see to discover all of the places that make us feel something more. vo subaru is the National Park foundations largest corporate donor, helping expand access for all. Its easy to get lost in investment research. Introducing j. P. Morgan personal advisors. Hey david. Connect with an advisor to create your personalized plan. Lets find the right investments for your goals okay, great. J. P. Morgan wealth management. Shelves. Shelves that know what taste buds want. Shelves smart enough to see, sense, react, restock. 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Heres why you should switch fo to duckduckgo on all your Devie Duckduckgo comes with a built n engine like google, but its pi and doesnt spy on your searchs and duckduckgo lets you browse like chrome, but it blocks cooi and creepy ads that follow youa from google and other companie. And theres no catch, its fre. We make money from ads, but they dont follow you aroud join the millions of people taking back their privacy by downloading duckduckgo on all your devices today. Trumps criminal case in georgia is not the only ego are watching this. Week on thursday, former leader of the proud boys, will face sentencing for his role on january 6th attack at the capitol. Prosecutors are seeking more than 30 years in prison. Four of the proud boys have already been sentenced for their roles in the attacks, all of them receiving between ten and 20 years in federal prison. One defendant Dominic Pezzola who was accused of smashing through a Capitol Window with a child. He was a filed after being taken away in handcuffs after raising his fist saying trump won. Ryan riley is back with us. His new book, sedition hunters, is out next month. Ryan, prosecutors are asking the judge to hand theo a 33year prison sentence. Yet, the other four defendants have received senators have ranged from 10 to 20 years. Why do you think that is . What are you looking for in this hearing . Were not expecting to get that for 33 years, just because its how the judges have decided other cases. Of, course the really interesting thing about Enrique Tarrio cases, hes wasnt actually at the capitol on january six, he was arrested in connection with a previous event. There is these two events after the 2020 election in d. C. , including one in which he was burning of the flag, he actually ended up being arrested for just before january six when he came back into town. After he came back on that flight, he was at a Baltimore Hotel on january six, prosecutors say because of the role he played in organizing all of this and knowing what was going to happen he even filled the venue called premonition outside of the capitol in a spooky, motifs and the masked up. They think he was a major part of, this even though he actually wasnt on the battleground so the speak on january six itself. He was a key leader and. This, but just given the sound as a judge kelly has handed down thus far, target imagined him approaching that. Im very curious to figure out whether or not he ends of going above or beyond at 18 years. 18 years is the current record. There is a tie for that. One proud boys and one member of the oath keepers have both received 18 years in federal prison. Federal prison time is not the same a state time. You really only, have to serve 85. Theres only so much good timing can get. You get credit for the time you already served, but its real time, and so 18 years isnt much much you achieving of even if you are an obedient emit in federal prison. Lets go back to Dominic Pezzola for a second. Of all of the fans in the proud boys trial, he was the only one not convicted of seditious conspiracy. What do you make of that . What was interesting because he was not as involved in some of the preplanning as the other four defendants were convicted. So, you can sort of follow the jurys logic there that he was a route was brought in the last minute but wasnt in some of those cute discussions. Its always interesting when you see the story cases, because theres been such this talk about d. C. Juries cannot decide these cases fairly. Then, you see they make some really educated and well thought out decisions like this, deciding that, government ties proof beyond the reasonable doubt