showing destroyed homes in florida as the governor warns would be criminals, you loot, we shoot. and call it a joint decision, after a yearlong review, u.s. health officials recommend loosening marijuana restrictions. our nbc news reporters are following all of the latest developments. we begin with that breaking news out of fulton county, georgia, in trump's election case. nbc's blayne alexander is in atlanta. give us the latest on that, blayne. >> reporter: we've seen a flurry of filings from the former president through his attorneys, saying the former president wants to sever and be tried separately from the other 18 codefendants. the reason he's listed is because of this request that we've seen from one of his codefendants, ken chesebro for a speedy trail. we saw the judge set the date for october 3rd. the former president is saying, no, we don't want to be tried that quickly. it's not possible to prepare for a hefty trial. that's the latest of the filings. the other things he's laying out, he wants to waive his first appearance. he's waiving his right to come and appear before a judge next week in fulton county for an arraignment. instead, he's pleading not guilty through his attorney. he issued that waiver earlier today. we know that that arraignment was set for next wednesday, september the 6th at 9:30 a.m. that day has been largely set aside for all of his -- he and his 18 codefendants to come down and appear before a judge. now, of course the former president isn't the first of those to do so. several others have already waived their first appearances but now he is the latest and we know that he is not coming to fulton county next week because he's waived that appearance, chris. >> blayne alexander, thank you. an ex leader of the proud boys learning his fate for the january 6th attack as another is awaiting his sentencing told. nbc's ken dilanian is following those stories for us. the sentencing for joe biggs, one of the longest we have seen, but less than prosecutors asked for. what can you tell us? >> that's right, u.s. district judge timothy kelley sentenced mr. biggs to 17 years, well short of the 33 years, and a year less than that handed to oath keepers founder stewart rhodes. judge kelly said if he had gone with the government's recommendation, there would have been sentencing disparities, and despite applying a so-called terrorism enhancement to biggs, judge kelly said it was his opinion it overstated biggs conduct. kelly did condemn biggs and the january 6th attack saying it quote, harmed an important american custom that helps support the rule of law and constitution, and the judge added that day broke our tradition of peacefully transferring power, which is among the most precious things we had as americans. notice i said, had, he added, we don't have it anymore. he later wished biggs best of luck. he said quote, i know i messed up that day, but i'm not a terrorist, and i didn't go out there to hurt anybody. on january 6th, i was seduced by the crowd, and i moved forward. my curiosity got the better of me, and i have to live with that for the rest of my life, and i'm sorry. >> he's going to live with it for a long time behind bars. ken dilanian, thank you for that. let's go to nbc's maggie vespa on the ground in perry, florida, where the cleanup from idalia is getting underway. what have you been seeing since you've been there? >> reporter: yeah, chris, this phase in cleanup, recovery efforts like this is a bit surreal. it's just beginning. life is getting back to normal a little bit. traffic is moving. traffic lights, though, running on generators, and people are driving right by scenes like this. you can see basically this sort of portion of what was a store is now just a mangled mess of like sheet metal and pieces of the building. here basically on perry's main street, lots of big machinery to kind of help move wreckage around. the other big issue is fallen trees. more than 100,000 people across the state of florida still without power as of the last update this morning from the governor. similar story in georgia, close to 50,000 without power in the carolinas, the big issue was wind and downed trees. we talked to a woman named debra mims. she rode out the storm putting a chair in her hallway, holding her cats, listening to every creek, and thinking her house cold come down at any moment. then she heard a massive tree come down in her yard. once the storm had died down, she came out to see what was what, and she was stunned. take a listen. >> i've lived here this long, and we weren't prepared to lose all of this. i sat in a comfortable chair and had my cell phone in my hand and a flashlight, my kitties were running around, and you sit there and you listen, and you don't know what's happening. you're hoping that the roof doesn't come crashing in, and you say a lot of prayers, too. >> reporter: you say a lot of prayers in that scenario. speaking of prayers, we want to point out the death count from this storm at three. florida highway patrol say two people died in unrelated car accidents, two car accidents in florida during the storm, a third person died in georgia, according to authorities after a tree fell on a car. the governor's office here in florida, desantis, declining to confirm the deaths at this point, that's according to local authorities. we mentioned at the top of the show the mention of looters from the governor saying that, quote, if you loot, we shoot. we want to point out local authorities have not flagged us on cases of looting or suspected looting. that was something we heard from the governor during his press conference and we expect another press conference, another update in the next 5, 20 minutes. that is the situation on the ground here in idalia's wake. chris. >> maggie vespa, thank you for that. the fema administrator will be there with the governor. we'll have that for you when it happens. let's move on to something that's already legal in 23 states. but now, a top u.s. health agency is recommending a shift in federal marijuana policy. nbc's kelly o'donnell is following this story for us. so what exactly is hhs saying, and what does it mean? where does it go from here? >> reporter: people may remember last year, president biden was talking about making changes that would acknowledge how marijuana is viewed in this country to try to even the stakes in some cases, to try to look at penalties that people are facing, and he encouraged the department of justice and the department of health and human services to take action, so now that moves us to this point, where hhs is recommending to the drug enforcement, i'm going to pause because i understand the president is making an appearance, chris. i'll go back to you. >> it's governor ron desantis, he's in steinhatchee, a town where people lost almost everything. he was just talking about a baptist church that saw feet of water pouring in. people describe the situation as terrifying. let's listen to what the governor has to say. >> so far there's been one confirmed fatality, and that was a traffic fatality in alachua county. in terms of the big storm surge we have seen, and you see the remnants here with the water line, we have not yet had a confirmed fatality as a result of that. i think part of that is people made good decisions, protected themselves. also, this forecast turned out to be accurate, it had been eyeing the big bend many days ago, that's what ended up happening. i think people particularly in this area who were in the way of a potential significant storm surge, they did take the proper precautions. we're also working hard to assist with power restoration, as of today, as of most recent numbers, 135,000 outages remain across the state. there have been 430,000 restorations since the storm first arrived in florida yesterday. so it's been a lot of great work with these linemen and the company is really putting an effort on rapid power restoration. as you'd expect, most of the outstanding power outages are in these big bend counties, mostly the rural counties, so you've got a lot of rural -- >> we're going to continue to listen into this, we want to shift over to washington, d.c. because an unplanned visit by the president to fema headquarters, secretary mayorkas is with him, let's take a listen. >> to make sure that we had a whole government response, every single cabinet agency has some contribution they can make and some responsibility, and i'm here at fema today, just a few minutes ago, i received a call from your administrator, and criswell, who's in florida, and helping them recover, at least during the initial assessment of that category 3 storm that made landfall. and this morning, i spoke again. seems like we should be on direct dial to governor desantis, and we spoke again this morning. i let him know that i approved his major disaster declaration, and i also spoke with governor mcmasters and with south carolina's emergency declaration as well, and i spoke the day before to the governors of not just florida and south carolina but of north carolina as well as georgia, and, look, it means we're making available federal assistance for florida survivors whose homes are damaged or destroyed by the declaration that i agreed to, and we're helping both florida and south carolina with the delivery of meals, water, and debris removal that's going to help both states begin their road to recovery and do it immediately. but before we do anything, i'm here to thank all of you, and i really mean this. thank you, thank you, thank you. you make an incredible contribution. i mean, i don't think -- i hope the american people have a sense of -- and it's hard to understand it because, you know, we usually don't -- we're not this engaged this often, but this last couple of years with climate change and really kicking in, you guys are going 24 hours a day and 365 days a year. it seems to just keep piling up, and i mean it sincerely. i admire what you do. i have been to almost every one of the areas you're talking about that you have to deal with. and president of this organization is from the coast guard, the military, i mean, across the board. it's amazing the sacrifices and i might add, risks, the folks are taking out on the field, and so thank you, thank you, thank you. it's important to the american to understand. we're in a situation where, you know, how can i say it? there's still some deniers out there in terms of whether or not climate change has anything to do with any of this, and we're going to need a whole hell of a lot of money to deal with all you're taking care of. and on behalf of the country, i want to deliver the heartfelt thanks to the emergency personnel in our communities all across the federal government, including right here, all of you in front of me. fema's national response coordination center, and those out on maui, you know, it's just amazing, you've seen it, some of you have been there. it's just pure devastation. that whole part of the island is just leveled. there's nothing left. and before this week's storm, we've predeployed 1,500 federal personnel and coast guard throughout the southeast. federal search and rescue teams have been helping people whose homes have been surrounded and inundated by water, and fee na -- fema and small business administration help residents whose homes and businesses have been damaged. i want to, again, thank you all. it really really matters. and one more thing, every american expects fema will show up and when they're in the middle of a disaster and calling on congress to make sure you have the funds to continue to show up, and meet the needs to deal with an immediate crises that we're facing right now, as well as a long-term commitments we have to make to finish the job in maui and elsewhere. showing up for the moment to save lives is critically important. that's just the beginning. just the beginning. and some of this is going to take months and years to make sure we restore the people to the circumstances before this disaster hit, and to the people of florida and throughout the southeast, i'm here to make clear that our nation has your back, and we're not going to walk away. we're not going to give up. we're not going to slow down. and again, you know, we're in situation where, how can i say it, some of my colleagues, my former colleagues in the senate and people i work with every day, and the united states senate think that this disaster relief money we're asking you to continue to finish the job so far, and have enough money to continue to work to save the american people's lives, homes, well being is somehow, i don't know, not needed or i'm not even sure what their thinking is, but we need this money done. we need this disaster relief request met. and we need to do it in september. we can't wait. but i'll take a few questions from the press, if you have any right now, but then i'm going to talk to these folks. >> reporter: do you have any comment on overdose awareness day? >> yes. look, i've been dealing with the drug epidemic in america since i was a chairman of the judiciary committee when i was a u.s. senator, and it has in many cases gotten much worse because of the nature of the drugs that are being consumed, and fentanyl is a new and really really dangerous addition, more young people, not just young people are dying as a consequence of adjusting fentanyl, sometimes not even knowing the drug they're taking, and one of the other things i have been asking the congress for, it was about $15 billion along the border to be able to deal with the technology needed to be able to determine whether or not the precursor drugs are making it into mexico and the united states, and dealing with that, so there's more to do there as well. >> reporter: mr. president, a governor shut down, how would that affect fema? >> it would be a serious, serious problem. i'm hoping that there's greater maturity to prevent that from happening than some think. >> have you spoken to leader mcconnell? >> yes, i have. i spoke to mitch. he's a friend, and i spoke to him today. and, you know, he was his old self on the telephone. and having a little understanding of dealing with neurosurgeons and people and one of the leading women on my staff, her husband is a neurosurgeon as well. it's not at all unusual to have the response that sometimes happens to mitch when you've had a severe concussion. it's part of the recovery. and so i'm confident he's going to be back to his old self. >> reporter: do you have any concerns about his ability? >> no, i don't. you want to talk to me about -- let's talk about why i'm here. >> reporter: are you accepting president xi at the g20 summit? >> the answer is i hope he attends the g20 summit. >> reporter: are you going to florida, sir? >> i am going to florida. i'm going to florida saturday morning. >> thanks, everybody. >> so a bunch of news in that. that was not on the president's schedule, this visit to fema over on c street in washington, d.c. but i think it's a key thing to point out that he did talk to mitch mcconnell, we showed you the moment when he froze, it's the second time that that has happened him after a series of falls that he has taken. one that sent him to the hospital, and he had a concussion, and he was away for weeks from the floor of the u.s. senate. that ties into the other thing that the president said, and i want to bring back nbc's kelly o'donnell. he says, you know, we need a whole hell of a lot more money, and we can't wait. those things are tied together. mitch mcconnell is somebody that the president has had a long relationship with, somebody he can talk to, and somebody, if it came to it, that he would have those conversations with, if we were looking at the potential of a budget impasse, a potential government shut down. talk about what you heard from the president of the united states at fema? >> i measure it in news value, and there was a lot of news value in the president's remarks there. important to go to fema, of course, for all of what fema is doing. important to make the push from the president's point of view about funding. you're right, the partnership he has had with mitch mcconnell is critically important. funding begins in the house, so that puts a lot of pressure on speaker mccarthy, and the president has been very careful in all of his public statements to be supportive of his ability to work with the speaker. at the same time, we heard the president talk about hoping there's enough maturity to recognize the seriousness of the potential for a government shut down. i believe october 1 is the deadline that we're looking at. that's the government's fiscal year. a lot packed in there. he was also asked if he would be meeting with chinese president xi jinping when the president goes to the g20, hosted by india, that is next week, sort of the second -- beginning of the second week of september. he said he hopes that xi will attend, and on mitch mcconnell, interesting, i was struck by the fact that the president is doing what certainly mitch mcconnell's staff is also trying to do, and that is to tamp down questions about his fitness for office. the minority leader is 81 years old. he did suffer a serious fall. it was described to us as a concussion at the time. and he has had a couple of public instances of this freezing on camera, which is obviously very difficult for anyone in public life. we have no visibility on if he's having difficulties when he's out of the view of the public. his office says he's been dehydrated, he's seeing a doctor for checkups, and what's important there is the president went further than the mcconnell staff has gone, that from his understanding of neuromedicine, remember, his son had brain cancer so he's got a lot of personal life experience with that part of the body saying that concussions can result in this kind of after effect. the president is not a doctor. i'm not a doctor. i don't know how to characterize that, but it is notable to me in a political sense, the president is trying to sort of shore up the idea that mitch mcconnell, despite his injury and recovery is still his old self as the president described it. so a number of notable things there. also, brand new news that he intends to go to florida on saturday. that is not something we had been hearing from the white house yet. they only told us they were looking at options, and obviously it's the holiday weekend. we always see the tempo that when crises happen of a natural disaster type, they allow for some time for recovery to perhaps quiet down a bit, only a bit, to allow a president to come into an area. we'll be looking for more specifics on that. there was quite a lot in that. thanking the people of fema and the first responders was an important message he wanted to get out as well. also, as you noted, still speaking about hawaii. that's a very important point after criticism about questions about had he been engaged enough, the president is trying to demonstrate he's bringing an all of government approach to that. chris. >> you are so right, kelly o'donnell. only a handful of questions, very short answers but a lot of news packed into it. kelly, thank you. the long awaited financial report of clarence thomas is in. he reveals that harlan crow paid for his travel expenses and means on three occasions. their relationship has been under scrutiny since a propublica report detailed years of trips that thomas accepted from the real estate billionaire. joining me is nbc news senior legal correspondent laura jarrett. you have been digging into this filing. >> this is the first public accounting of harlan crow and the justice whose relationship had come under scrutiny after that report. we should mention this is just for what happened in 2022. we do not have a full accounting of all the other decades, and we know their relationship has been long standing. the justice essentially says in his own defense, this is much adieu about nothing. the rules do not have me having to disclose all of this. it was personal hospitality, and then the rules change in march, and they make it crystal clear, if you're taking private jet rides or going on luxury vacations, you need to disclose them. his lawyers put out a statement, saying these were inadvertent mistakes, calling the whole thing a partisan hit job, a feeding frenzy, people are targeting the justice for things that everybody else knows is going on behind the scenes. everyone was so focused on justice thomas. >> but acknowledging the propublica report. >> acknowledging and acknowledging they may have to disclose other years as well. >> while democrats have raised questions, the other question is what can be done about it. there doesn't seem to be any stomach in the house for sure to go after the justices who helped overturn roe among other things. >> why hasn't there been any in the senate? i can't get a good answer from my democratic friends on the hill, you know, you would think that the senate judiciary committee would be looking into this, also related to clarence thomas, his wife ginny thomas was very much involved in the effort to overturn the election on january 6th. i think there's a lot of unanswered questions. it's good now that the propublica reporting resulted in something, resulted in a change in these policies. that's good. i definitely think there's more there. >> tim miller, you'll be back in a moment. but coming up, why a trump codefendant is asking the judge to reveal the identities of 30 unindicted coconspirators in that case. we've got that next. ed coconspin that case. we've got that next. ving with liberty mutual, mom. they customize your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. check it out, you could save $700 dollars just by switching. ooooh, i'll look into that. let me put a 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(announcer) change your life at golo.com. that's golo.com. we're following a trio of big headlines coming out of georgia right now, that's where donald trump is pleading not guilty to charges against him and now is moving to sever his case from his codefendants. now, one of those codefendants is kenneth chesebro and he's asking a judge to unmask the 30 unindicted and unnamed coconspirators mentioned in the state's election interference case, in order, he says to aid his defense, and amid all of this, we just heard from georgia governor brian kemp. he is rejecting efforts by state republicans to target fani willis. insisting that attempts to seek her impeachment are unwarranted. i want to bring in msnbc legal analyst, lisa rubin, a lot for us to unpack. let's start with your reaction to the latest news from the governor saying no way to people who want to go after fani willis. >> chris, we've seen a reaction somewhat like this yesterday from house speaker john burns who also said that he believed that separation of powers meant that fani willis, who was dually elected should be left alone to do her job. the reason this is at all controversial of course is that the georgia legislature passed and governor kemp signed a new bill that would allow for the investigation and the removal of district attorneys perceived to not be doing their jobs. i think it's very helpful that brian kemp is pouring cold water on attempts by people within the georgia republican party and specifically, particular state legislatures to start to begin that process against fani willis. october 1 is the date on which you can begin investigations of district attorneys under that bill. brian kemp said this is not a situation i see as ripe for that kind of investigation. it doesn't rise to the level of not following the law or political prosecution that would be required to remove a d.a., and it's not going to happen on my watch. >> let me ask you about those two filings now, kenneth chesebro, let me read the crux of his argument. here's what it says, without knowing the identities of the coconspirators, it will be near impossible to follow what statements come from the unindicted coconspirators the state relies on to prove the underlying conspiracy. mr. chesebro must be able to challenge whether the unindicted cocon spoor tors' testimony is sufficiently corroborated. is that a compelling argument? >> it is a compelling argument in the sense that chesebro should be allowed to confront the witnesses against him. it's not a compelling argument in the sense that a majority of those who are listed as unindicted coconspirators are people that mr. chesebro, and for that matter, the public, should be able to identify. when we talk about the 30 unindicted coconspirators, chris, 13 of them are among georgia's 16 quote unquote, fake electors. only three of those electors are named in the indictment. the other 13 appear to have cooperated with fani willis's investigation. and of course there are other coconspirators who are alleged to have been in conversation with mr. chesebro over e-mail. in at least one of those instances, someone like me can reverse engineer from the evidence available through the january 6th investigation that the house conducted who those people are. for example, in the indictment there's a reference to an e-mail between mr. chesebro and other people that is quoted in the indictment. looking at the january 6th committee's discovery, i can tell you, that unindicted coconspirator number 4 is robert sinners, director of the election day operations for the trump campaign in georgia. he's now the communications director for brad raffensperger, who as you know, is also a prominent witness here. i think mr. chesebro, with some home work, could unpack who many of these people are. on the other hand, if he's going to trial on october 23rd, it's not totally unreasonable for him to ask who some of the rest of them are. >> i have also had a chance to look at this new filing, the state of georgia versus donald john trump, and this is the argument that the lawyer for the former president is making in terms of we don't want a speedy trial. october 23rd is way too fast, quote, respectfully requiring less than two months' preparation time to defend a 98 payment indictment, charging 19 defendants with 14 various charges, including a rico conspiracy charge with 161 overt acts, solicitation of violation of oath by public officer, goes on to talk about the other charges against him. would violate president trump's federal and state constitutional rights to a fair trial and due process of law. what happens now? you have people who want their speedy trial, and donald trump now one who doesn't. >> right, and donald trump's severance motion, i should clarify is just a severance from those who want a speedy trial. he isn't saying i need to be tried separately, regardless of when the rest of them get tried. he's saying, i don't think the case against me is ripe for trial on october 23rd. the problem with one of the arguments is that he's carrying water for a lot of people. as you and i both know, not all 98 pages, not all 161 overt acts, not all multiple dozens of charges apply to trump. it sounds good rhetorically to sort of describe and amplify the complexity of the case, but none of this is a surprise to donald trump as tanya chutkan said in the federal election interference hearing earlier this week, the president and his legal team could have been preparing for these trials given their knowledge of the investigations going on for some time. so it's nice that steve saddow has arrived on the scene and says he himself needs time to prepare. that right belongs to the defendant, not the musical chairs we have seen in this case. >> thank you so much. we have more breaking news, an update on the health of mitch mcconnell after he froze for a second time while speaking. let's go to nbc's ali vitali on the hill. we learned literally minutes ago, president biden had spoken to mitch mcconnell, said he sounded like himself. what's happening now? >> reporter: yeah, look, this is the thing we have been waiting for, chris, which is some word from a doctor around what happened to senator mcconnell yesterday, and what this might mean. we are now getting a portion of a letter from the attending physician here at the capitol saying that he conferred in his words, with mcconnell's neurologist, and that he is, in the doctor's words, after evaluating yesterday's incident, informing leader mcconnell that he is medically cleared to continue with his schedule as planned. the doctor's note goes on to say that occasional lightheadedness is not uncommon in concussion recovery and can be expected as a result of dehydration. there's a few things that are important in here, chris. first, it references the fact that mcconnell did sustain a concussion. that was part of an injury in march when he fell at a washington hotel, leaving a fundraiser. that is the reason mcconnell was out of the senate for several weeks while recovering from that. this is the first time we're seeing his team, both medical and political link that injury with these episodes that we have seen him have twice now, the first of course happening at the capital during a weekly q&a with reporters, the next, obviously happening yesterday and spurring this latest round of questions. it doesn't mean that we don't have more questions, specifically when the last time mcdonnell and his neurologist's team met. it is important to recognize that this doctor is saying that lightheadedness, which is part of what the leader's team is saying he experienced yesterday is a common side effect of a concussion. that concussion several months ago now. >> ali vitali, thank you for that update. much appreciated. winds picking up, planes and sailboats just swept away. we have crazy new video that shows us exactly the wrath of hurricane idalia, and we've got it all, next. hurricane idaliaan, d we've got it all, next ever notice how stiff clothes can feel rough on your skin? 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[sneeze] (♪♪) astepro allergy, steroid free allergy relief that starts working in 30 minutes, while other allergy sprays take hours. with astepro's unbeatably fast allergy relief you can astepro and go! we are continuing to track tropical storm idalia as it moves off the carolina coast after pommelling florida. idalia causing a dangerous storm surge. look at this video, a group of sailboat, literally sucked under a bridge in the big bend region. that's wild. the current pulling the boats all the way through the underpass, and to the other side. they popped out. they kept right on moving down with broken sails. meanwhile, a 45 minute drive away at an airport in perry, florida, idalia ripped over planes. look at these videos. you can see aircraft barely hanging on to the runway. some ended up spiral upside down, wings shaking under the pressure of the storm's hurricane force winds. look at that. fortunately nobody inside. turning now to the battlefield where ukrainian forces say they've pierced the main russian defensive line in southeast ukraine, a potential breakthrough in the grinding counter offensive. nbc's matt bradley has the latest for us. this would be the first time ukraine, i think, managed to break through the main russian line. this is a massive network of trenches, barriers, mine fields, what can you tell us? >> reporter: this might be the first time the ukrainians have penetrated or broken through such a line. they have been pushing back russian front lines regularly since russia invaded ukraine in 2022. ukraine has chalked up victories in kharkiv and the southern city of kherson. that was last year. today's victory vindicates a ukrainian offensive against the russians that started months ago, and so far had been pretty underwhelming, it hadn't really yielded any great gains, despite, and this is a crucial thing, being armed with western weapons. that's a lot of the pressure that's being put on kyiv to make in fresh assault work, and the assault has managed to free some of the land around the ukrainian villages. according to the "wall street journal," the ones who broke this story, this was done by ukrainian parachutists, and they were dropped in a forward position, and that fighting is still ongoing. you asked about penetrating the main defense line. the reason this is so significant and why it's so different than the previous ukrainian victories and places like kharkiv and kherson that i mentioned is because the russians have had the better part of a year to fortify this front line. as you mentioned with barriers, minefields, with trenches, and you mentioned this has made the fresh offensive, you know, a really sluggish slog, and it's really put the ukrainians on the offensive, not just against moscow and the russians, but also against washington who may start wondering, whether ukraine is using their costly weapons to their fullest capability. >> matt bradley, thank you for that. now to a new court fight over the wreckage in the titanic in the north atlantic, and whether a salvage company can recover artifacts where 1,500 people died in 1912. tom costello is on the story for us. what more can you tell us about the fight? >> this is not related to the tragedy in june that took the lives of five titanic tourists. a georgia company has the salvage rights to titanic, but u.s. law and international agreements limit the activity around the site. now, the government has gone to court to stop that company from returning to the site to retrieve a key relic, the wire that transmitted titanic's call for help. for 111 years, titanic has rested some 12,500 feet down on the ocean floor. it's made in voyage from england to new york, captured on film. the terror of hitting an iceberg in the dead of night, portrayed in block buster movies. >> all of this will be at the bottom of the atlantic. >> reporter: among the artifacts recovered, shoes, silver wear, fine china. the u.s. government is moving to block the company with the salvage rights, rms titanic from recovering even more, including the ship's wireless telegraph that transmitted the sos to passing ships. in a court filing, rms titanic says it hopes to return next year and may recover free standing objects inside the wreck, including objects from inside the marconi room, the radio room. under u.s. law and international agreements, the wreckage is a memorial and cannot be disturbed. the government insists the company is not free to disregard this validly enacted federal law, yet that is its stated intent. >> the company's reason to be is they do all of the exhibits that have the actual artifacts from the titanic. >> david gallow is a strategic adviser to rms titanic. we talked to him in june. >> the rules are there can be no more recovery. >> edith told us of the night she lost her father. >> i'll never forget it. see all the dead bodies floating in the sea. it was terrible. >> reporter: since 1985, roughly 250 people have visited titanic. then in june, tragedy, five people died when their submersible imploded. >> it is a grave site, 1,500 people died there. >> reporter: researcher katie bell has dived to the site itself, even as time takes the toll on the wreckage, she believes it should be treated as a cemetery. >> are we learning anything new, is that the reason to recover artifacts or leave it alone, we have a lot of things already, let's call it a day and leave it with respect. >> historians say titanic has parallels to cemeteries at gettysburg or normandy, but titanic rusting away on the ocean's floor, do you preserve it and treat it as a cemetery, and don't trespass or remove the artifacts while you can before the ocean takes them all. chris. >> the ongoing story, and it's a fascinating one. tom costello, thank you. donald trump is stoking speculation about his selection of a possible running mate. talking about the break out star of the first gop debate. >> have you thought of vice president ramaswamy? >> well, i think he's great. look, anybody that said i'm the best president in a generation, you have to define generation, but he's a very intelligent person. he's got good energy, and he could be some form of something. i tell you, i think he would be very good. i think he's really distinguished himself. he's starting to get out there a little bit. he's getting a little bit controversial. tell him to be a little bit careful. >> trump's former number two is leveling fresh attacks against the rising ramaswamy whose ideas he calls incoherent and unconstitutional. tim miller is back with me. also with me, nbc's dasha burns, i think some of the maga base may love the idea of a trump/vivek ticket, but some are raising the question, so i'll ask it of you. could the former president tolerate having a running mate who generates a lot of attention and a lot of controversy and maybe takes some of the attention away. >> yeah, i don't think so, if trump is saying you're getting a little controversial, that should be a wake-up call to vivek's team. that is not the guy that you want to say you're getting a little too far out there, given donald trump's track record. i don't think so. i mean, my guess is he will look for somebody that he can trust to be loyal given what happened with mike pence on january 6th. obviously mike pence did the right thing, but trump doesn't think so. ewe look for somebody loyal and who's not going to out shine him. i want to say, listening this hour, joe biden acting so decent in talking about mitch mcconnell was really heartwarming, and then you have joe biden and ron desantis working together on this hurricane leaf in florida, like, what a contrast between that and this discussion about donald trump and vivek ramaswamy and all their just blow hard conspiratorial nonsense that they have been pushing and their divisiveness. i do think that contrast merits mentioning. >> i'm glad you brought it up. there is a contrast that the white house wants to draw. the question then becomes, dasha, what's happening over on the republican side? who might joe biden eventually end up running against, conventional wisdom, polls, everything, show that it's donald trump. team trump believes that ron desantis is slipping, that he may not be holding the number two position. "axios" reports that the trump pollster sees nikki haley surging after the debate, suggests she and ramaswamy are now essentially tied with desantis. i'm wondering what you're hearing from your sources and the people you talk to who are out there, who are on the trail, who know what people are thinking? >> i'm not a pollster. i can tell you from the time that i have spent on the ground at these events and not just the events for candidates, at the iowa state fair, diners, gas stations, at places where people gather in the critical early states, iowa, especially. after the debate, the events for vivek ramaswamy were electric, i will tell you, they were way more crowded than even his campaign expected. he got standing ovations at every single one. i had a particularly interesting interaction with one woman who came in, she was a trump support er, it wasn't an event for vivek, came in, trump's the only guy who can do this, the only one we can trust, and then as vivek was speaking, i was watching her, and suddenly she at one point started vocally saying out loud, yes, yes, yes, and i went up to her after the events and i said i heard you were very enthusiastic, i was listening to you, and watching you, are you now potentially considering caucusing for someone other than trump, possibly vivek, and she looked at me, and she said i'm open. >> you can tell, right, because mike pence is getting aggressive in his attacks against ramaswamy. >> that's right. >> he knows he's caught a little fire. >> absolutely. and what we saw on the debate stage is spilling out on to the campaign trail, not just pence, but you have nikki haley going after him, chris christie going after him, and on the debate stage, you can kind of see these more seasoned politicians kind of trying to vote this young kid off the island and that's certainly continuing right now. i want you to take a listen to what mike pence recently said. >> i don't have any problem with vivek ramaswamy, i've known him a couple of years. he's just wrong. he's wrong on foreign policy. he's wrong on american leadership in the world. he's wrong on how we get this economy moving again. and what he's proposed in terms of using the authority as president of the senate to nationalize elections was incoherent and unconstitutional. and i think it's frankly been roundly criticized across the political spectrum. >> and, look, they may be frustrated and they may be right about some of his proposals being unrealistic or even unconstitutional, you'll have to check with your lawyers on that, but what they might not be seeing is this is picking up steam with voters. they're not looking at their legal filings. they are looking at this candidate that's saying things that they are compelled by. >> yeah, one of the people that we heard mentioned and maybe not in the last couple of weeks, but for vp potentially, tim, is kari lake, and in arizona, it now appears that she and blake masters are on track for a collision course in a critical senate race. what would you make of those two going head to head? >> oh, boy, i don't know what blake masters is signing up for in that one. it's interesting. i think we saw in the 2022 midterms a number of these races where you had an ultra maga candidate like kari lake, a mainstream republican candidate, and then somebody kind of tried to tap dance on both sides. it didn't work well for the tap dancer and, kari lake is straight election denial. straight donald trump super fan, right into the veins. black masters, i went to see both of them in arizona on the campaign trail last year, and you could similarly what dasha was saying about the crowd, she stayed more with that republican debate. both of them lost, but worth mentioning, kari lake did significantly better than him in her defeat. she had a much closer defeat than he did. i don't know. i think it could be ugly. the light them fight gif comes to mind. i don't think blake is looking very good in the head to head. >> tim miller, dasha burns, what a way to close out the program. thank you both so much. you're going to new hampshire for labor day. >> that's right. >> safe travels to you. that's going to do it this hour. make sure to join us for "chris jansing reports" every weekday from 1 to 3:00 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc. our coverage will continue with alex witt right after this break. h alex witt right after this break. just sinex, breathe, ahhhh! 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