all of the deceased victims are black. the shooter had offered several manifestos, went to his parents, went to the media, and went to federal agents. portions of these manifestos detail the shooter's disgusting ideology of hate. playing the puck, the shooting was racially motivated and he hated black people. >> the shooter then turned the gun on himself and shot himself. no under individuals were injured in the attack. the suspected shooter according to police since manifestos the detailed racial hatred to law enforcement, to media outlets, and his parents. the fbi has said it is now investigating this attack as a hate crime. moments ago, within that president biden has been briefed on the shooting. and mr. b.c. news correspondent moore subpar has the latest. >> but our general store in jacksonville, florida has become a crime scene after a shooting spree that the local sheriff's office calls a racially motivated one. this a white gunman turns a gun on three black people, killing them, before turning the gun himself. they detail a manifesto that was sent to local law enforcement as well as local media, even his own parents, detailing his desire to kill black people. using the n-word several times. this press conference was illuminating and disturbing. they also detail swastikas that were drawn on guns that this shooter was carrying on his body. still so many questions in need of answering, but nonetheless, a community left grieving for yet another gun violence tragedy. >> all right, in this nbc news correspondent mrsa parra, thank you for that. let's bring into the conversation jim kavanaugh, msnbc terrorism analyst who's joining us on the phone. also with me, a guy junior, msnbc political analyst and chair of the african american studies department at princeton university. jim, i will start with you. authorities are not identifying the suspect just yet. they did reveal though that he is a white male in his early twenties. they found his manifesto, one that was sent to his family, one to the public, went to federal agencies. and the sheriff said very clearly, quote, that he hated black people. let's talk a little bit about what we know at this hour. how unusual is it to have as much information as a motive at this point in windy think they will be able to release his identity? entity >> i think we will probably have his identity this evening sometime. the detectives are all over it, the federal agents. and so they will release that pretty soon. and he's a guy brimming with hate. he is a positive soul and is boiling over with hate. i've been around these guys, i've arrested these guys, and they can't keep it inside. it just spews out of him verbally, he comes out in the dismal writing when, their manifesto's, their screed's win. and they are the rare ones that can keep a close. there are some, there are few, there are a few timothy mcvay's out there. and we for the most part, the soldiers if you would, the hate movement that are top aided by a how do i describe it, it diaspora or a fantasy community in their mind and they maybe haven't met all of these other not cities and talk to them on the internet insurance creeds and talk about all of the things in the movies and the things that they hate. and what is so important understand is that we called him a lone wolf. i call them out dark. they are not alone though. they are supported. and it could turn out this guy is a member of an organized group, and not see group, and neo-nazi group, or he could not be, but he still supported by that worldwide american wide apparatus of hate that supports him up. and so he's being supported in his beliefs, and they turned himself into nothing more than just a snuggling loser coward that shoots innocent people. it's a heartbreaking day, said day on the anniversary of a civil rights march. but i've worked with these guys all over the country, over the south michael career. and it's unfortunate. we just try to reduce the numbers. we try to let the public know that law enforcement, sydney county state and federal is behind them. and once it gets these guys, wants to put them in jail, once i get all of them that are committing crimes and hurting our citizens. so the public needs to know that. i think the chef is doing a good job telling them that. >> jim, the fbi says it is already investigating this as a hate crime based on obviously the manifesto is that they have in their possession, the talk to me a little bit about the overall threat that emerges in this country as a result of what was here. but are you concerned now with the lone wolf radicalization if you will, and this is a expression that we've learned a lot dealing with foreign terrorism when it comes to this country. now this country was trying to see this young man self radicalized or self indoctrinated into this hateful ideology based on what he has red and inspired by perhaps other attacks. but how concerned should we be about the rise of white supremacy? >> we should be very concerned, because it is on the rise. the internet of course has given a number of years and a number of fuel. i went back at one point accounted of the murders in the civil right matters that were on the mend in montgomery, alabama at the southern poverty law center. i counted the number of people killed. i can't remember exactly, but i went through a period of more years and it was probably 35 people, and then i went back in our current time to about 2009, and we had more than 55 people killed by white supremacists and white nationalist. and so we are in a period really if we open our eyes that more people are being killed by white nationalists then during the civil rights era. that is disconcerting. i would just offer the dichotomy for your viewers saying that this guy here she's innocent people in a store is the ultimate coward. if you contrast that today on the day the civil rights march to some of the civil rights heroes. like i always think of -- who is in mississippi as a soldier, a veteran who was trying to register people to vote when he was killed by a sniper who was a clansmen because he was trying to register people to vote. but he has been threatened, and attacked, and yet he continued to go out and try to register people to vote. now that is pure courage and put up against the cowardice here. and as america, we don't lose sight of the differences between cowards and people of courage. we seem to lose it in america. we seem to know what courage is and what cowardice is. this is cowardice and that was courage. and they can be many other examples. and i'm sure that at a can articulate this much better than me, and we apparently has such great insight into the history of hate in america, and we have to combat it, and as a federal agent, we fought it all of the time. in atf, we were constantly after the people it violated our explosive laws, and these guys always did, because they had a bombs and guns and machine guns and intimidate hurt and kill the people that they hated, and so they were always in that. we were infiltrating the clyburn's with undercover agents and trying to arrest them all the time. they have a hatred for everyone, and they really hit the atf in the 88 -- fbi because we were always arresting them, and of course they hate the police, but they try to recruit the police. but just the last thought, you and i have been on too many times and terrorism from radicalized people around the world, and the radicalization methods are not that different, not that different. >> professor, jim kavanaugh use this expression, the history of hate, and say we are seeing this split screen reality of america. on one hand, the 60th anniversary of the march on washington, thousands there today to commemorate that struggle and what that speech was about. but the fulfillment that journey, the fulfillment of that promise again shattered by the kind of hatred and racism that we just saw play out in jacksonville, florida. your reaction? >> yeah, i appreciate brother jim's compliments. i'm thinking about his formulation of the apparatus of hate, and i'm thinking about the adjacent rhetoric of hate and what turned up the temperature and what brought this coward to the boiling point. we were environment now where there is an expectation for political gain. and so we need to understand the wide reach of who is responsible for this and i think that is the first thing. the second thing is that we have to tell ourselves a better story about the march on washington. this extraordinary moment in march 28th 1963 is actually framed by political violence. not only that extraordinary march in may 1963 in birmingham where we saw o'connor bring out the fire houses, and the dogs, and those dogs and fire hoses were directed towards children. that was a children's march. when we think about the courage of -- who shot down under 11th, right, when we think about that moment and we think about george wallace under 11th standing in front of the university of alabama and declaring his commitment, what we think about the violence that framed the proceeding of the march? when we think about the violence that answered the march? the bombing of september 15th, 1963 that killed four little girls? but also the two boys who were killed? johnny robinson virgil where? johnny robinson was actually shot in the back by police officers. virgil weir was shot on his bicycle by his friend by to quote unquote eagle scouts. the violence of the moment. and if we tell ourselves a better story, a thicker story about how we've never really come to terms with it, then we can understand more fully what we just experienced today. it stings to me. that's a long winded way of pulling the point, but i hope you get it. >> absolutely get it. and you brought a very important point up about the apparatus of hate. and as i mentioned, and as you just said, this falls on the same day as the 16th anniversary of the march on washington. reflect on this tragic racially motivated attack happened on a day that was meant to celebrate a civil rights for african americans. when you talk about dismantling the arrest of hate, and all of this continues to happen this country and we are not allowed to tell the story on this country and we are constantly being urged to be in a post racial society whether it is a florida or a supreme court decision, but all that is reminding us that the journey from the march on washington until today is far from complete. >> absolutely. we're told, they posted this just not too long ago on social media platform, we're told that the problem is diversity, equity, inclusion in the problem is critical race theory. that's what we're being told. the threat to democratic life, right? and i think that what we have to understand is that there is a segment of the society that is fundamentally believing that their way of life is being threatened. and history of america, one of that particular group of folk believe that their lives are being threatened, they turn to violence. they always have. so this is something, i have to say, people have been trying to make the point that trumpism is new. it is, in particular political formation. i will give it that. but we have had to deal with these people for generations. we have had to deal with this sort of thing -- we are quite familiar with this. and so part of the work that has to be done is to, how can i put this. we have to commit ourself finally to acknowledging it so that we can stamp it out. and this seems to be a lack of will. and it reminds me of kings letter from birmingham jail, where heat, the object of scorn was not the klan, it was the moderates in birmingham who dared to condemn him. >> where does that still resonate till this day. professor eddie glaude junior, jim kavanaugh, thank you to both of you. we will continue the story have more coverage of this tragedy in jacksonville throughout the day and continue our conversation. we'll take a quick break, after the break we will shift gears though. there are new indications that some georgia defense already placing the blame on donald trump, we will talk about that next. stay with us. stay with us tv: try tide power pods with 85% more tide in every pod. who needs that much more tide? 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never before had a mugshot of a former or even current united states president, but now we do. of course, even in this serious moment, donald trump try to get the upper hand, submitting height and width measurements for his booking record that basically matched the statistics of nfl quarterbacks, or actor chris hemsworth, or boxer muhammad ali. trump and his 18 codefendants all met the friday noon deadline to surrender at the fulton county jail, and cracks are already emerging within that group. take, for example, kenneth chesebro the lawyer associated with trump's campaign, who allegedly crafted the legal plan behind the so-called fake electors scheme. he has a trial date set for october 23rd, after requesting a speedy trial. the october trial date applies only to him at this point. late last night, sydney powell filed a similar motion for a speedy trial, and earlier today john eastman's lawyer, harvey silverglade, told nbc news that his client is likely to pursue that path too. now, those moves only constitute the smaller cracks that were highlighting. the former president of the republican party of georgia, david schaffer, he claimed in a court filing that he and a delegation of fake electors who were charged, quote, acted at the direction of the incumbent president and other federal leaders. and echoing that, is -- a georgia republican charged alongside trump, saying that he signed false papers claiming to be a legitimate presidential electorate trump's direction. now the defendants haven't even been arraigned yet, and already the lower level alleged offenders are pointing fingers at the big guys up top. this, ahead of another massive week of legal developments that we're expecting. you've got five defendants that have sought to move the state case to federal court, citing their ties to the federal government. the first one to file, former trump white house chief of staff mark meadows. he is going to make the the argument for movable on monday, in a hearing before a federal judge in atlanta. that same day, the judge overseeing trump's federal case on election fraud has signaled that she will choose a trial date. and if she opts for a trial in early 2024, as prosecutors have requested, trump's already packed courtroom calendar will get that much more complicated. joining me to discuss this and more, jill wine-banks, msnbc legal analyst. she's a former assistant watergate special prosecutor and former general counsel of the army and co-host sister in law podcast. for renitta shannon and stuart stevens, advisor to the lincoln project, also author of it was all a lie. and he was mitt romney's chief strategist for his 2012 campaign. it's great to have all three of you with us. jill, i'll start with you because of the legal aspect that we are talking about, and our colleague lisa really pointed this out clearly earlier today. she said that this news, that john eastman will likely join sydney powell and ken cheseboro in demanding a speedy trial in fulton county, signals that there is some kind of splintering from the rest of the defendants, and that could depend on perhaps, strategy. explain that to us. >> i think part of it is that when the first request was made by kenneth chesebro, he thought that he would catch fani willis not ready. and that he would have an advantage, and that the trial would start within the legally mandated time of the georgia statute. which means that under georgia statute, the trial had to start by november 3rd. once he saw that he was wrong and she said, fine, let's go, i'm ready, others may have thought, well, i'll get in on this. i'll be severed from donald trump's trial by joining this early trial date. because donald trump is going to delay, delay, delay, divert, that is his pattern and practice. and so i'll be tried separately, and that gives me a break. but it also gives donald trump a break, because he then gets to see the evidence as it is presented. and he also has the advantage that he will now have at least three versions of it. the grand jury version with that the witnesses gave, the trial one version, and if there's any difference between the two, he gets to exploit that at his own trial. so he gets an advantage from this. so there's a lot of strategy going on right now as to what each of them is thinking. and then, of course, the removal part is another element that has to be considered. and the removal and the explanation that they were acting at his direction means that they're splintering in terms of pointing fingers. but it also means that they're admitting they did this, and don't they remember the nuremberg defense didn't work? it won't work here either. you cannot do an illegal act -- >> and simply say it was a order. >> yes. >> representative shannon, what do these arrests, these mugshots mean for the ordinary people of georgia? how does this picture of these 19 defendants shape our understanding of the equality under the law? >> this accountability is a very important, and the mugshot is very important, because so often we are told that no one is above the law. but then time and time again we see powerful and connected white men who, no matter their actions, or able to just continuously live above the law. and, so, now with this type of accountability, we are seeing that these folks are being held to account, everybody is familiar with that criminal legal system and how it has ravaged lots of folks in our country, predominantly black and brown communities, those who cannot afford fancy defense lawyers and those who don't have the most resources. so for black folks in particular, this is what we are seeing is sort of a crack in the usual protection that white supremacy affords, and the mugshot is part of that. >> you had republican pundits and republican lawmakers basically for years chanting, lock her up. that was their mantra. and they campaigned on that and they pretended that they cared about law and order and holding the powerful to account. and yet here we are, seeing their response over the last couple of days, what do you make of the gop attempts to spin this mugshot into an asset, as opposed to a liability? >> look, i think it's really important to focus on that. that this really isn't about donald trump, it's about what's happening to the republican party. the reason donald trump is leading in these polls, is because he's what republicans want. and if you go back to what happened on january 6th, it was an effort, an attempted coup, it involved all levels of the republican party. from the white house down to the attorney generals association, senators, congressman, their staff, noted donors, this wasn't a rogue action. it was a concerted, organized effort by the hierarchy in the republican party to overturn an election. i don't think you can call it anything else. and yet, you still see in this debate, where almost every candidate for president in the republican nomination says that they will support a man who attempted to overthrow the government of the united states if he wins the republican nomination. and i can't think of anything that's just more anti-american, and sadder, and shows the complete moral bankruptcy of this party i used to belong to. >> yeah. anti-american, anti-democratic, no doubt about it. jill, on monday, mark meadows is going to present his argument for moving his case to federal court. walk us through that. what is his argument, how strong do you believe it is? >> mark meadows is arguing that because he is a federal employee, that he gets to be tried in a federal court. now, in order to get removal, it's a very low standard of proof. but he does have to prove that his conduct, as charged in the georgia indictment, was done as part of his job. and frankly, i don't think we need to talk about the second and third elements, because i cannot imagine him being able to establish that his political activity, his campaign activity, and that his crimes were part of his job as chief of staff to the president of the united states. so that's the first hurdle that he will have to meet. the second one is he'd have to show that he has a federal defense. and again, as i've said, in relation to the other defendants, it's not a federal defense if you are committing a crime. that's the i can't follow your orders because, sir, it is illegal. and everybody knows that. so, i don't think he can meet those two standards, and therefore i don't think, even at the low standard of proof that is it's not beyond a reasonable doubt, you don't have to prove that it's absolutely going to have been, i don't think you can meet those standards. and the case will not be removed for any of the. >> so, really quickly, jill, just as a matter of procedure, is this a hearing that we would expect a decision on the day of, and more importantly, is it one we're fani willis's team gets to present the republic to the points that mark meadows makes, that this case should be removed? >> great question, ayman. yes. in the end, fani willis is prepared now for the defense. she has subpoenaed witnesses, including the secretary of state, who can testify to the pressure that he was put under. she can even use an fbi agent to testify to what happened in the grand jury. there's a lot of ways she can put in evidence. so if the basic -- remember, the burden is on mark meadows. he has to present it. that is a movement he has to prove. if she says, your honor, you can dismiss this now because it didn't meet the burden, then she doesn't have to put on any of that defense evidence. but if the judge is in doubt, then she will have to put these witnesses on, and i think that will robot anything any of the claims that are being made in defense of his getting this trial removed. and removal isn't going to help him all that much. he will get a slightly different jury, it would be all of northern georgia rather than having it be just fulton county. right. i'm sorry, instead of fulton county. so it means that it would be a different jury. but the law is the same, the prosecutor's the same, still under georgia law, it still will not be a portable defense, because it is a state one. >> no, those are really good points. representative shannon, i'm going to squeeze in a quick break. but afterwards i'm going to talk to you and get your thoughts on some important developments as well. and that will be about whether or not what happens if trump violates the agreements that he has made, the terms of his bond conditions, so to speak. from verizon. 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(vo) football season is here. get nfl sunday ticket from youtubetv on us. a $449 value. plus, get a free samsung galaxy z flip5. only on verizon. >> breaking tonight, donald trump is taking his failed social media attack to attack former d.a. fani willis and special counsel jack smith. this despite new bond commissions in the georgia election case. now let's break down those conditions for you. trump cannot communicate with witnesses and codefendants about the case except through his lawyers. he's also barred from intimidating witnesses and towards defendants, and trump is forbidden for making a direct or indirect threat of any nature against the community or to any property in the community, and that includes his own posts on social media and even repose. and so the question is, what would happen if the ex president were to escalate from attacking the legitimacy of the cases to violating these commissions in florida, or the terms of the protective orders on the federal level. my panel is back with me. representative shannon, let me start with you in this round, and you know, the washington post is reporting that advisers say that the trump campaign sees a benefit and testing the boundaries by publicly attacking judges and prosecutors. what do you think would be the best legal avenue for judges to pursue if trump doesn't violate any of his bond are or protective orders? >> well very simply, it would not be smart for to violate the agreement because he could end up in pretrial detention, which means that he would have to spend time in the fulton county jail. the fulton county jail is not the place that you want to be. currently is under doj investigation because we have had some recent deaths in the jail. it is the site where lesean thompson was eaten alive by bedbugs as he was awaiting trial, and so the fulton county jail is not where you want to be. at the end of the day, the trump team and those who are accused of this conspiracy really need to take, they need to take it seriously what they are charged with. i was on the committee that the trump lawyers came before when they were asking us to throughout the voice of georgia ads and just decide the election for the voters. and this really read a lot of havoc in georgia. i mean four weeks, voters did not know if their right to elect their leaders would be upheld. and so these charges are very simply, i think the d.a. fani willis has made it clear that she's not going to trump or anybody affiliated with him preferential treatment, and that he has had a mugshot taken, and he has been having to go through the same processes that anybody else would go through once they are charged in fulton. >> stuart, the fbi is now investigating threats to grandeurs andaya, and this is pretty serious. and the folks and whitening online groups are making references to death sentences against the judges, not just there, but elsewhere. what role did the feds have and protecting jurors and anyone else who might be threatened as a result of these indictments? >> well look, i think that trump is definitely going to violate the terms of this agreement. i think he just can't control himself if this is positive. i think this is all going to play out. it's a classic case of testing the rule of law. trump has, in the republican party participated in this [inaudible] assaulted the rule of law. they have attacked the justice department, they've attacked the fbi. they've attacked judges. they've attacked prosecutors. and this began before trump was elected. -- with trump. when i was a republican, we like to tell ourselves it was a law and order party, this was just a marketing slogan. this is going to play out. and i can't really imagine that trump is not going to end up [inaudible] >> jill, judge struck down, is overseeing the federal election interference case, has said that she intends to keep politics out of the case. that seems impossible when it comes to donald trump because he is making them front and center in his political rhetoric. what do you make of that, and how difficult of a situation that she found herself in navigating being able to speak but at the same time putting very strict limits and parameters on what he can speak about? >> judge chutkan is up to the task. she has experienced and i think that she can handle it, but she is in a very difficult position because putting him in custody has to be a last resort. he may push or to that, but he will see it as a political advantage, and so she has to be careful not to give him that advantage. but there is a limit to what she can do to enforce his compliance with what our reasonable requirements for his release are. she can penalize him with a monetary fine, his supporters are paying his legal bills already. so it doesn't hurt him, he doesn't care about them and their money. and so i don't know how much benefit in terms of his compliance it would be to find him if he doesn't obey the fine, she said she would move to trial date up but she can only move it up so far without denying him due process and the adequate time to prepare, and he knows that. and she knows that. and so there's very limited amount of things that she can do other than incarceration, and i think that that may have to be, if he, stuart is right. he can't control himself. and so if he goes way beyond the bounds, and it's clear on his threats and provoking his supporters to create violence and response to these threats, i think that he will have to be shut up by being incarcerated, and we have an example of eugene debs ran for president from jail. and so it is possible that he can continue his campaign from jail. >> rana, you are based in georgia, what is it like for you to see the threats to officials and jurors especially since you've been on the receiving end of these kinds of threats. what kind of personal told us it take on you? >> unfortunately, it's a very familiar. as i mentioned, i was on the committee that the trump lawyers came before, and at that time, there were a few of us who swelled up and said hey, we are not going to do this, and we don't understand why you are attacking our elections. that we know did not have any fraud in them that would cause any type of significant difference in the outcome. and so for that, we received death threats for simply asking the trump team to provide proof of the fraud they claimed was rampant in our elections. and so as an elected official, i'm used to receiving death threats and not-so-nice notes from the public from time to time, but my heart really goes out for people like miss ruby freeman and other election workers who are simply just doing their job, and the folks who are part of the grand jury now have just done their job and their civic duty, and they're not being attacked by the trump team. i'm glad the d.a. willis is taking all of this very seriously, and she's doing what she can to protect those who were involved, because without that sort of protection and having the backs of the folks who are involved in the grand jury and everyone who's a part of this process, a democracy would cease. and so i'm glad that folks are supported. >> it is a deal being tested. our democracy in the rule of law has been tested every corner in this process. we will see how it all plays out. we need it shannon, joe wine-banks, stuart stevens, thank you to that preview tonight. greatly pre-shaded is always. election interference indictments make clear our election systems and our workers need protection, as we just discussed. next, secretary of state janet griswold joins us after the break. th break. nfl sunday ticket. 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(vo) football season is here. get nfl sunday ticket from youtubetv on us. a $449 value. plus, get a free samsung galaxy z flip5. only on verizon. >> the georgia indictment tells us a lot about donald trump's alleged criminal conduct, but it also points to the vulnerabilities within our election systems that need protecting. in coffee county, georgia, security researchers played by trump ally sydney powell, were allowed into an election's office to look at equipment, according to the indictment. the so-called researchers allegedly copied data, directly from voting systems, and they uploaded it to a site where election deniers across the country could then download it. and this is what happens when you intrust bad actors with administering our elections. in similar instances, they were reported to have taken place in colorado, michigan, and ohio. it's not just the physical infrastructure that is vulnerable, of course, we all remember election workers like ruby freeman and shaye moss, and others who faced a slew of violent threats as noted in that indictment. the washington post notes they are not alone, many black female election workers say they faced harassment, and in some cases have been forced from their jobs. joining me now, janet griswold, and chair of the democratic association of secretaries of state. secretary griswold, it's great to have you back on the show. thank you for making time for us. so, let's start with these election system breaches that we are seeing across the country. in your state, you have a county clerk, who was indicted on charges related to election tampering and misconduct. and, you know, prevention is one thing. but is accountability enough? what's needed to ensure these systems are protected? >> well, good evening, and thank you for having me. i do want to take a moment just to say i am thinking about jacksonville, and all of the victims and their families. hate has no place in this country, and we must stand together united against gun violence and hate. and going directly into the question you asked, there's a couple things to unpack with the georgia indictment section on the election breach in coffee county. first and foremost is that donald trump's attempts to put chaos across our nation, and to disrupt american elections did not stop the insurrection. at -- some reporters have alleged that the person involved with the security breach in the georgia situation is a guy called -- i bring that up because he was the person who worked several months later with colorado clerk tina peters from -- county, to breach her system. so let that sink in. kirsten, who is allegedly involved with the georgia breach, around the insurrection leading up to it, months later is in colorado messing with our election systems. so, the big takeaway for me is that states need to rapidly prepare themselves for an ongoing onslaught on american democracy. and there's several things that we've done in colorado that i encourage states to adopt immediately. >> yeah, that would be a pretty serious allegation if in fact it is true and verified. and we know election workers, madam secretary, they are vulnerable. there was this 2023 brennan center for justice poll, when nearly one in three local election officials had been abused, harassed, or even threatened. and you've got to look at just how, going to future elections, how tense this country is. more than half of poll workers are concerned about political leaders trying to interfere with how they do their jobs. what goes through your mind when youth see these numbers? >> we will, you know, i've been living this reality. it's not just the election workers, the poll workers on the ground. it's also the secretaries of state who have been standing up against these attempts to steal elections for the american people. and i think something really stood out from your last panel. it was what the former representative from georgia said. that she's used to receiving death threats, because she was an elected official. no elected official in the united states should ever see that. we cannot allow violence, predominantly against women or elected officials, and people of color to be used to stop us from being in these seats to represent our communities. and when it comes to the violence against election workers, it is something that is real. at this point, two men have been found guilty for threatening my life, and i was lead, just moved to run a law to protect election workers in the state of colorado because of that. but, honestly, this political violence, the atmosphere of threats, will only stop if republicans stand up to donald trump. people like ted cruz, people sitting in the u.s. senate and u.s. congress, who have decided that they don't have -- and it's okay to threaten a grandma who's executing an election and providing the oversight that she should be doing. >> so, you know, just really quickly. final thought on this. what's your message to those out there that are considering volunteering for the next election cycle? but are afraid to? >> i would say, we need you. states are moving rapidly, our elections work because americans of both parties, republicans and democrats, have oversight on the election process from start to finish. that's how we know american elections work in a secure and accurate way. but make no mistake, whether it's someone trying to breach an election system or trying to use threats to intimidate, as secretary of state i will do everything i can to hold them accountable. because the american people need to know that their votes will be counted accurately, and none of these grifters trying to steal the elections, along with donald trump, will get away with it. and by the way, that's why these prosecutions are so important. we have to come and reckon that american presidents tried to steal the presidency. >> secretary of state jena griswold, thank you so much. as always, greatly appreciate your time and your insights this evening. >> thank you. >> we're going to change gears in just a moment. when we come back, we're going to return to the breaking news on that racially motivated shooting in florida. just a quick break, stay with us. wit us buy one footlong in the app, get one free. for freeee. that's what i'm talking about. order in the subway app today. 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